Why we're in a Golden Age of passing | Enhanced podcast

In this segment from the Thinking Basketball podcast, the Athletic's Mike Prada and Ben discuss the rise of no look passing, how passing complexity has increased over the years, and how spacing has created a passing revolution in the NBA.
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Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
Music by csus (instrumental)
#ThinkingBasketball

[@riyaad7419]

Watching a passer like Jokic is honestly such a privilege

[@meljay337]

Fax it's so effortless for him too

[@Mmmm-lx9vb]

@@risanPhilosopher His defence has improved a shit ton since the 2020 playoffs...

[@kingofthenoobs]

@@risanPhilosopher we got fuckin nostradamus over here

[@davidjr4903]

@@risanPhilosopher Jokic is better than your fav player get over it bum

[@mediokah232]

@Risan get a life man. All you do is go in comment sections to troll and start arguments.

[@kevind4606]

I have seen almost every Jokic game in his career. Unfortunately he has turned the no look pass into just something I expect to see 3 or 4 times a game. He sees the game like a chessboard mentally noting every moving piece. It is incredible to watch. Haliburton is another dude who is a great passer. The Pacers may be my league pass team this season. Tyrese can end up being like a Chris Paul with a better outside shot if he continues to improve.

[@theasiancow1860]

As someone who hasn't watched many Pacers games, I notice that there's very little talk about his play. His contributions at his age are pretty incredible

[@donaldrose9812]

@theasiancow he's insane, lol 40 assists with no turnovers is crazy.

[@kevind4606]

@Risan we will see my friend, we will see.

[@kevind4606]

@@theasiancow1860 agreed. Except I saw Kendrick Perkins weirdly had him as 5th in his mvp rankings, which maybe but not yet but it was nice to see the shoutout.

[@theasiancow1860]

@@kevind4606 To be fair, I've kind of tuned out Perk at this point. Half of what he says is straight blasphemous. Occasionally he has good takes - not that I think Haliburton on the MVP ladder is one - but it doesn't discount all his bad ones. Of course, there's an incentive to say wild stuff but still....

[@stxx1982]

The breakdown of John Wall passing is so dope. This channel presents hoop in such an alternate, off the wall manner, and I f****ng luv it. Best bball content ever!!!

[@felipebrunetta2106]

They look at the game with as much attention as they can and just talk what they see. No preconcieved notions or anything else. They are great.

[@JohnnyScumbagg]

No look passes are one of the prettiest parts of the game

[@felipebrunetta2106]

Just such a demonstration of absolute mastery

[@SuperAstroEP]

"best way to trick a bunch of experts is to create an illusion" is a great quote

[@northerniggy8261]

Passing techniques (timing/methods) is one of those skills I spend a lot of time trying to teach my youth players. Anticipatory passing is something that is very hard to teach... as it requires the player to think that way... its almost a brain wiring thing. Certainly everyone can get better at it, but some are simply gifted with the right wiring. See Paige Bueckers, UCONN point guard (currently recovering from and ACL tear). Bueckers reminds me of watching Wayne Gretzky passes in Hockey... a whole different level.

[@nanox4]

Absolutely. I also play/watch football (soccer) and you can tell when a player has it or not. It's about vision, timing and reads. Some brains just work faster than others. It's in the wiring as you mentioned 🧠.

[@koraanjamar]

It's a talent, more than a skill, but requires talent, skill and athletic ability to be considered the best at it...

[@Deathraze1]

@@nanox4 Soccer's another great example of this. You cant really teach passing and court/field vision the same way you can teach other aspects of the game.

[@koraanjamar]

@@Deathraze1 You can teach what they touch on in the video, but don't really accurately attribute to gameplan and preparation. What they describe is more like understanding passing windows and checkdowns in American football: if they're in certain coverages, look for this opening - that's practice (coaching, awareness) more than passing, which takes IQ and talent, to execute. This isn't an evolution of basketball, it's actually a step back because so many teams play the same coverages and formations with similar lineups (more wings, less true bigs and point guards), to take advantage of the three point shot and switching on defense - it's more predictable.

[@koraanjamar]

Taurasi has it, as well ..

[@vishnujayakumar1846]

Passing is an art of creativity.

[@nikagogibedashvili6476]

All these progress in overall passing ability in the recent decades and still, Magic's charisma in the deliveries cannot be topped. One of a kind.

[@koraanjamar]

And Magic was a willing sharer, as well, he wasn't just trying to track up assist stats, (but still did). He actually made his teammates better, which the artist stat doesn't always reflect. And Magic got that's DUNKS - still the best shot in basketball. The number of jumpers over finishes at the cup, that passes lead to in this era, leaves a lot to be desired, imo...

[@fumihiro8564]

I don't think anybody else can be Magic. But you can be damn sure that gifted passers and dudes that see the game as this chessboard have just increased tremendously.

[@nikagogibedashvili6476]

@@fumihiro8564 yes, I agree with that. Overall passing ability has skyrocketed recently, yet the best passer played more than 30 years ago.

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

Probably because his passes seem so not planned as opposed to today's plays where the pass is exactly what was drawn up. But in terms of pure passing, nobody will ever top Stockton. He could just thread any needle out there -- give him any space for a ball to fit through and Stockton will hit.

[@goldenphoenix5945]

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson I wonder how Magic's passing would compare to players today such as Lebron and Jokic as well as the other all-time great passers Nash, Stockton, Chris Paul, ... Today I see Magic as a point forward like Lebron surrounded by shooting at PG, SG, and SF along with a strong defensive lob threat at center. Knowing how much more spacing there is today, I assume Magic would have a much easier time scoring and passing to open shooters, cutters, and lob threats, however, I struggle to see what kinds of passes he would do that others aren't doing already. I wonder if other passing savants haven't caught up or exceeded Magic's ability to create good shots for his team. For that reason and the fact that his offensive package seems quite limited and that he was a terrible defender (would be worse today given how much he struggled guarding perimeter players)... I struggle to rank him on all-time lists but here is what I currently have. 1) Curry - MJ - KD - Lebron - Shaq (confident 1st team) 2) Nash - Kobe - Bird - Duncan - Kareem (Had to put Nash for extra shooting along with his passing and couldn't take out Duncan for Magic) 3) Lillard - Klay - Kawhi - Magic - Hakeem (Decided to build around Magic hence my strong shooters and defenders). 4) CP3 - Dwade - Tatum - Dirk - Wilt Let me know your thoughts especially regarding Magic.

[@eyemunchained8968]

John Stockton would love this era of open spaces, dude would be averaging 15+ assist

[@schuylersavage276]

Ohhh ya definitely. I mean he did average 13.6, 13.7, 13.8, 14.2 and 14.5 assists per game, so I can only imagine. And even tho people accuse Utah stat keepers of being extra lenient to Stockton in terms of what counted as an assist or not, the entire league is still more lenient on that today than Stockton’s stat keepers were, meaning he would probably get 3-4 extra a game that didn’t used to be considered an assist. In the game today we see a LOT of two dribble assists. I mean tons. We also see 3 dribble assists. We see :catch, pause, drive-hesi-drive two dribble assists! Haha! So ya. Isn’t it freaking insane that Stockton AVERAGED 14.5 assists per game for an entire season????????? Lol. Like wow. I remember watching John wall when he averaged 10.0, 10.2 and 10.7 for 3 seasons in a row, it was amazing to see how every game it seemed like he was getting 12-14. And then you think of Stockton…if he AVERAGED 15, that means it probably felt like he was getting 17 every night lol. I think I saw game logs where he had stretches of like 17+ assists SO many games in a row.

[@onlyfacts3178]

more than 20 assists..dont forget now every pass is called an assist..unlike his ERA...now you see passes to guys that are on the 3 point line without dribbling fake a shoot and drive pass several defenders.

[@onlyfacts3178]

@@schuylersavage276 NBA now riggs assists..now every thing is called an assist..YOU see EMBIID with 5 assists and NBA saying he had 10 assists. YOU see CP3 with 17 assists and he only had 11... I saw LEBRON passing to A.DAVIS on the 3 point line with both feet on the floor he looks at the shoot clock fakes a shoot then goes from there to DUNK passing 2 defenders and they call it an assist. WESTBROOK made a inbound pass in one side of the court and they say its an assist for a player who dribble the entire court with several defender in front of him.

[@onlyfacts3178]

@@schuylersavage276 and now there is also the 3 point assists...draymond had a game with 12 assists all to KLAY and CURRY who were shooting 3s...and he was just making screens and making basic passes.

[@onlyfacts3178]

@@schuylersavage276 by the way...An assist has nothing to do with dribbles...there is no 2 dribbles in the definiton. its a direct pass to a direct shoot or already in finalized motion to the basket,. A good example is passing a ball to someone at half court...he stays there for 20 seconds then takes a shoot without dribbling..(thats not really an assist). And someone passing the ball to a player on a clear path with nobody in front of him at half court who takes 4 dribbles should be an assist... Thats why old players from the 50s had a lot of trouble to make assists because any dribble woulndt count as an assist. And thats why FIBA its harder to get assists.

[@tylermeis4981]

I like how much they highlight the appreciation of amazing things. That's really what draws a lot of us to the sport and its analysis!

[@cheesehead7278]

As a podcast listener, getting to watch these videos with footage to match the topics is so great. Keep it up!!

[@frankm5267]

Awesome footage/editing to illustrate the points of this convo🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾

[@taylor7264]

game changer

[@zhuber]

How am I just now discovering this channel?! This is seriously so amazing, thank you for this in depth analysis.

[@isaacmota2220]

What's interesting is that Michael Jordan had the same magical scoring effect that Magic had as an assist. Michael Jordan would do stunts to score a basket.

[@nofuture_at_all]

John Wall is my favorite player because of his amazing passes. I remember when I was younger, I will get a turnover on the very first possession thinking I can be like him. Then, I decided I should be Klay Thompson, just catch and shoot but I couldn't shoot, too. I finally decided to be Tony Allen, just give my best on defense. Let them do the ball handling and scoring.

[@Klocks420]

Jokic and Doncic are INSANE.

[@-hunt-6225]

@Risan Lmao if Dirk got a ring then Luka will get 3-5. But keep hating scrub

[@Klocks420]

​@RisanLuka and Jokic dragged squads that had no right being there all the way to the WCF where they both lost to the eventual champions. They were in their early 20's when they did that

[@davidjr4903]

@@-hunt-6225 this bum is a racist straight up

[@jonjuko8859]

@Risan they’re not able to have teammates?

[@Klocks420]

@Risan The Mavs were like a top 6 defense last year lol

[@KdDevil14]

I like the illusionist analogy of a pass. As a PG myself I've always prided myself on the read of the game and making passes only I see, yet I never thought of it this way. Makes so much sense. Another great video from a great channel.

[@chancecurbow2734]

it makes me so happy when you release a new video

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@Podsedneck]

banger. awesome format idea

[@slightexag]

I think it's actually less vision and more about repetition and engrained pattern recognition. Elite passers know where the guy will be and who will be open depending on the play and a cursory look at the floor (especially going downhill). Players like James Harden on the Rockets did so much pick and roll that the passes became more instinctual than the product of vision on an individual play. There are so many under the basket baseline passes for 3s that go out of bounds because the guy behind the line forgot to slide.

[@user-bw6pt9dy6f]

well said most of the players simply recognize patterns they seen many times before and instinctively choose to pass to the player more likely to make the bucket based on happened in similar plays in the past. some players even predict movements of other players based on patterns. Same can be said about floor spacing and off ball movement on some degree

[@fumihiro8564]

This part is definitely true, but dudes like Halliburton, Doncic, Jokic, Lebron (kinda not anymore, used to), and CP3 can just whip a pass that really made something out of nothing

[@t4d0W]

The repetition is one thing as Ben alluded to these schemes being regimented to take advantage of being able to score in the NBA with modern rules. But the vision shows up with guys like Jokic, Doncic and these elite dudes where the no looks and the anticipation happen in various spots on the floor. Also the *touch* these guys have on their passes even on awkward looking situations are superb. Even Harden couldn't put the best touch on every pass he had that wasn't from a screen or something. But there was a Jokic pass highlight last year where he had 2 bigs fooled at the post and he was waiting for a defender at the other side to sag off so he can hit his man at the corner. He delivers the pass like a sidewinder and the guy at the corner catches it at THE spot, looking surprised and puts up the shot anyway as the defense scrambles to contest. The best guys always make those illusory passes look effortless on a nightly basis.

[@wizexel22]

Yes

[@twrtwrtwr333]

we love great passes because the player shows us something that we did not see. well put 👏

[@breiinless]

This is the man behind all the videos

[@potatopoison1130]

I absolutely love passing in game and it brings me joy getting an assist

[@probablyyourdad]

That's crazy I enjoy podcasts on KZbin

[@connorphillips8116]

I grew up a kings fan in the heyday, then fell in love with the 2nd iteration Spurs title teams for their ball movement. It’s maybe fanciful but I just believe engaging five threats is ultimately the most dangerous thing in the sport. Even from the stars especially Jokic, but others too your seeing the ability for generated gravity from vision that’s comparable to modern floor spacers. His threat of an assists is as useful as a threat of a pull up in both scoring potential and defensive distraction, it’s just foreseeing secondary action. But when the ball may go 4 locations and more from there, a defenses attention is split in any number of possibilities. Engage a unit capable of similar reads and the d is always on the backfoot. I think an interest in individual greatness in the game may factor into just a level of discrediting passing broadly, and unit passing more specifically. Clearly we have top players that are brilliant playmakers and talent is often a distinguisher at the end of the day. But 5 beats 1 and with every year the league seems to be balancing iso scoring with collective schemes. It should be fun to see how it evolves in the coming years.

[@t4d0W]

Speaking of that floater lob, I think that is the one of the evolutions allotted with spacing and rules that favor the perimeter player to attack at mid range. I still remember that Larry Bird video where he was one of the guys who weaponized his shot motion into a pass. So if he gets a spot up jumper opportunity it could turn into a hockey puck assist. Luka with how he plays with is bag of tricks takes advantage of this best with his absurd half court vision and how his moves and shooting can flow into a pass. With how it has become a regimented technique it will be a norm for years to come. Its just a matter of a player uses their advantage in their skillset to blend it in the offense.

[@shorewall]

I remember someone talking about "Kobe Assists", where he would take a tough shot, and miss, but the big man would get the offensive rebound and score. :D

[@Tiger.x801]

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It's the courage to continue that counts.......

[@Hoops_Fan]

The increase in "face up" play has contributed to the quality of passing getting better because facing up allows you a better view of the court. In the lead up to the 2018 draft, someone pointed out Luka was similar to Larry because the latter would be doing most of his playmaking facing up and have a better handle in today's NBA, which is true.

[@fumihiro8564]

Post up Playmaking still my favorite niche thing in basketball, it's just so clean when you pull it off. Great point btw.

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

Trasssssssh

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

@@fumihiro8564 not a great point and you're an i/diot

[@cukeumberr]

haliburton’s the current jump pass master, caitlin cooper has a great piece on that that i highly recommend. dude’s flashy and functional in equally unreal amounts

[@12126182]

Are you doing a top players of 2022 this year??

[@taylor7264]

this is great content. to the point abt manipulation, a scoring threat is a v useful manipulation tool and counter to anticipatory defensive adjustments. Its probably why we've seen the rise in "score first" point guards. the scoring is a NECESSARY playmaking tool now... probably why even at his best ben simmons never impacted winning at a high level in the post szn.

[@t4d0W]

That def explains many of the big wings in the 2010s to develop a pass game. Kawhi didn't have that game until he played with that concept for the Raps in 1 season. It makes sense of course because the other 4 guys around him can score/playmake given their role. Paul George became a more dynamic passer to go with his scoring. KDs threat as a passer wasn't fully realized until he played with the Warriors not only because he had guys who he can pass to. But he has teammates who are great passers to get it at his preferred spots so he doesn't have to bring up the ball. Currently Tatum and Brown of the Celtics are going down this route as well where their handles and passing game baseline wise are great to know how to pass out when they attack the basket.

[@taylor7264]

@@t4d0W yee if you're going to a primary ball handler today you have to be able to do both regardless of position. the read n react style of basketball that is running the league demands the full scoring and passing skillset. n like they pointed out wit MJ big wings that can do it all present the biggest mismatch problems n therefore compromise defenses the most. thats what made mj, kobe, bron n now tatum or even luka so dominant

[@shicrapt]

The pick and roll lob pass used to be monopolized by Steve Nash and Chris Paul because they had Amare and Tyson Chandler for teammates, respectively. Now almost everyone does it, not just guards, but almost everyone.

[@wecanjump7512]

Keep in mind that there is much more space in the game. When I was growing up (I'm 43) you could use your hands to slow/redirect cutters. The modern game reminds me a little of watching the Harlem Globetrotters.

[@t4d0W]

There def is but there are players who are redefining how it is to play with all this space. What amazes be about Luka is that the guy practically has one of the tightest handles while attacking the basket past a screen and through tight traffic with a dude he's jailing behind him and like 2-3 bigger guys to contest him coming at the rim. Similar situation when he's posting up a mismatch, doing his move on them and has to fight similar resistance at the basket. And he's just as effective when playing with a lot of space too. Same with Jokic where he doesn't have the athleticism to force the issue but he'll play enough screen/handoffs and find cutters/shooters out at the perimeter with what little touches he has to work with. Just a totally different level to what your typical athletic small combo guard will try do at the perimeter.

[@wecanjump7512]

@@t4d0W Luka is way (way) overrated. His style of play will never cut it in the playoffs. That usage rate virtually guarantees he will wear down and he is a liability on D. Jokic is a whole other story. Best passer I have ever seen and a far better shooter than Luka

[@t4d0W]

@@wecanjump7512 If they don't get elite talents around him that may be the case. Look at how the prime of his coach Jason Kidd ended up in. Had 3 finals appearances with his first two as the PG squeezing as much production out of guys like Kenyon Martin, Keith Van Horn and Richard Jefferson. The one he got a ring with was late in his career where he got to play with a top 5 talent in Dirk Nowitzki. Could really be the case that Luka was way too good as a young prospect where he's helping his team to a playoff berth early on. Whereas other young prospects don't get it together but the team gets to pick high from the draft 2-3 times to assemble that core that could be a playoff force for years.

[@wecanjump7512]

@@t4d0W No one can play like that and win, not even MJ. Players like Kidd/Jokic/Bird make teammates better. Players like Harden/Luka make them worse. Sounds harsh, but I have seen it too many times. You have to keep the ball moving constantly. Luka wants to hold onto it.

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

@@wecanjump7512 MJ did win like that you i\diot

[@BWalker9313]

Great breakdown, it's funny to see all those old Magic clips where there's 3 to 4 offensive guys in the paint, plus defenders and Magic would still squeak passes through but now with all the space you just need 1 defender to move slightly to one side and that immediately creates space for a shooter or creates space for a drive or a lob. Plus taking away certain aspects of physicality opens the game up even more. I do think a lot of guys rely on those skip passes a bit too much, when there's easily a guy rolling to the paint but when you pull it off it looks great

[@rayneozier]

6:13 idk if she coined the term or what but Doris Burke loves to say “on time and on target”, and in a nutshell I think that’s the makeup of a great pass.

[@jgray2718]

Passing is the ultimate expression of mental greatness in basketball. The greatest passers like Magic, Bird, Jokic, Lebron, etc., see what's going to happen before it happens, sometimes _making_ it happen themselves, and use that to set up a great shot. Jordan or Kobe might do something unbelievably athletic that just feels unstoppable, or they might make an incredible shot, which is kind of a triumph of the body, whereas Steve Nash or Rondo might make a nice athletic play and finish it off with a slick pass nobody else saw coming, and that's the triumph of the mind. _(Jordan and Kobe stans, I'm not throwing shade at the passing abilities of either guy. Kobe was a spectacular laydown passer and when Jordan played PG he basically got a triple double every night. But their shotmaking abilities were even better)._

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

Lebron and Jokic aint up there with Bird and Magic you i/diot

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

And there's no Jordan and Kobe stans you claim here you i/diot

[@anthempt3edits]

Gotta do an Enhanced Podcast episode on your nicknames tangent with Cody.

[@wakaflokafamevevo]

swag and deep insight

[@goatjordan2615]

I also think “ flashy passes “ are something you need to do to distract the D and think they want to pass one way

[@Aaronsolnelson]

How much have video games affected this? Playing 2K is from an overhead angle while thinking about the whole floor. Growing up with that would help players' understanding of the floor and geometry of the game.

[@nikolakrstic8079]

Passing and playmaking will soon become more important than shooting because everyone will learn to shoot very very well, but not many will know to play make and pass well. That's why Jokic will get even better than now. Even if that seems impossible

[@koraanjamar]

We saw this in the FIBA tournament this summer...

[@nikolakrstic8079]

@@koraanjamar if you watched him in Eurobasket ans think that was his fault you are insane. In the game Serbia lost to Italy, Jokic was +10 He was on the bench for 8 minutes and Serbia was -18 in thise 8 minutes That's when the game was lost Just stop saying shit you know nothing about

[@koraanjamar]

@@nikolakrstic8079 You misunderstood me, bro - I was comparing Euroleague FIBA to the NBA, where Jokic and Giannis both said it's harder because of all the team preparation and lack of spacing. You totally misread my comment, but it's all good.

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

@@nikolakrstic8079 m/oron

[@waff6ix]

1:07 my all time fave magic pass🤩

[@estevatopanchovillacruz9969]

Manu man, I wish everyone watched as many spurs games as I did back then. They would have seen multiple amazing passes a game...every game! You just had to be there.

[@t4d0W]

Manu from a casual perspective is def an underrated passer. His passes he made from those hammer plays were consistently spot on. Dude just gets the defense to clog the paint but also had someone at the corner to get to and take a shot.

[@musak.4068]

*CAN MIKE & BEN START DOING THESE FOR THE SPORT OF BOXING.*

[@beegeebad3193]

Jason Kidd, John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Mark Jackson, Price brothers, Rod Strickland, Isiah Thomas, rest goes on. Most point guards of today are scoring point guards. But yeah with the emergence of Luka and the Europeans passing the ball was reinvented. Im surprised about John Wall, a score first point guard being an example

[@wanderlustwarrior]

I swear it's like I'm listening to Aiden English/Matt Rehwoldt talk basketball, the voice is the same.

[@Tom-km7vp]

My brain read this as “why we’re in the golden age of podcasting”

[@stekons]

More true than the actual title

[@DawsonDancy]

@thinkingbasketball do a video on Anthony davis recent tear

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

"Injury"

[@williamblake7386]

Ben. What about top-10 of 2021-22? And thinkingbasketball top-40 is outdated. You are the GOAT.

[@willhooke]

Need an AD update 👍 Dude is playing at the 5 and he's on a tear!

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

Oh he had a tear alright

[@loganmisiak5573]

Luka's passing is a combination of Lebron, Larry, and Magic! It's crazy!

[@mitthrawnuruodo4569]

​@@risanPhilosopher bro woke up and chose violence to every european superstar☠☠☠

[@koraanjamar]

I don't know about that - he's a great passer, but there are passes that he can't even try because he doesn't have the athletic ability to get out in transition enough to open up opportunities. And jump passing is STILL a waiting to happen, even tho Wall - and I think everyone acknowledges that he doesn't have the same athletic ability anymore...

[@Anthonydu01630]

The funny thing is that Lebron passing is already a mix of Magic (Transition/fast break and no look passing), and Bird (Half court, touch passes).

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

Its crazy you actually think that nonsense

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

@@Anthonydu01630 no its not you ignoramus

[@jasonha4489]

Another factor to great passing is just the increase of threats, since the average role player is simply just better at scoring

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

No they aint, the defense is just terrible

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

Three points opened up the floor, there isn't as much physical play relative to the past, and maybe as a result the offenses are far more complex with movements everywhere allowing for far more passing. Yet interesting enough, teams today still average fewer assist per game than almost every season between 1978 and 1989 despite higher scoring today. Not sure how that happened.

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

Chucking up threes and terrible defense isnt complex

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

You m/oron

[@des8893]

I wonder what parallels exist between passing in the NBA and passing in the NFL. It sounds like there is a lot of overlap with the way the offense and defense read tendencies. There's also the need for deception. Lastly, the passer and receiver need to read the play the same way.

[@t4d0W]

On the surface its reaching to similar levels in terms of QB play. I always hear terms of when a QB like Tom Brady has a good day, he's 'diming up' 9 different targets in different parts of the field. The deception part probably favors the offense more in the NFL scheme wise because keeping the defense on the field longer can really take them out in the long run as well as keeping the offense OFF the field. Whereas in the NBA there are ways to make possessions count for more especially in playoff basketball. Also in terms of NBA defense, the off-ball guy has been referred to as playing the 'linebacker/safety' role where they scan the court and anticipate player movements to move their teammates around to get proper position. And we've seen defenses just give up baskets by being off position playing against screens or rotations. Because more schemes are executed in NBA that can look 'similar', there is more need to read and react there than the NFL.

[@JulioLeonFandinho]

passing is something that historically changed the less in basketball, I've seen old 50s NBA footage being stunned watching even centers doing no looking pass or behind the back and so on... I don't think it's something so remarkable

[@tridra5714]

I don't fully understand what they meant by a passing golden age but I've always been more interested in "dynamic passers" they way I see it alot of the style of passing they were talking about were the repeated off the play passing like young's or Luka's or Harden's while I find it more interesting is guys like Magic and Westbrook who with little time and limited knowledge of the space around them create opportunities from anywhere. Off the whim passes that force their teammates and opponents to change their positioning. Young and Luka anticipate the pass from the moment they begin their drive but the sudden ones that open straight out of nowhere and understanding how to use and manipulate that space is truly mesmerizing. To add on I feel the most difficult passing were in eras with less passing while that does mean a lack of skip passes and long ranged whips It did force great playmakers to use the limited space and manipulate it in incredibly creative ways

[@t4d0W]

Funny you mention that in the end because Bill Walton's prime is definitely worth a look with how he dimed up his guys when he posted up. HIs vision wasn't crazy but as long as he had cutters he could always find them at the basket.

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

@@t4d0W you didnt watch Walton's prime you fool

[@the77th]

Alperen Sengun is MY BOY!!!!!!

[@gripken08]

Passing in basketball is a lot like QB in football. The QB uses his eyes to manipulate defenders just like a good passer in basketball does.

[@juju-vl7oj]

Can someone do an in depth video explaining why basketball hasn't devolved and the players of the 2000s and earlier aren't better than what we see today? It's still a pretty common belief maybe even majority that for example if MJ played today it'd be so easy for him he'd average 50. Probably not it would upset too many people.

[@LordSteeleCastleClashPsteele68]

I mean it's still Michael Kobe Shaq these type of players changed the game and are considered goats for a reason with Michael his style would lend itself to this era and if he wanted to he could average 50 remember MJ and Kobe played during a hand checking era

[@eprjct]

Because it's not comparable. The rule book and play style has completely shifted. Like any other field, people commonly use the "Golden era" to fantasy whatever happens back then. God knows what will happen if MJ plays basketball today. Back then 3 points isn't even part of a team strategy.

[@paulh.9937]

@@LordSteeleCastleClashPsteele68 I think the top 20, top 30 players of all time can undisputably play in any era and succeed at playing basketball. I think that's a given. If you put players like Mike, lebron, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, magic, bird, Timmy Duncan, Hakeem, wilt, bill Russel, and Steph curry into any era they are gonna murder everybody. That's a fact. But I think these older players really like to exaggerate how good the rest of their peers were. Basketball is simply being played better today. The rule changes kinda suck, and the referees are absolutely garbage right now, but the skill level of the players today, I believe, is of a higher caliber than any other period of basketball ever. I know a lot of people may disagree with me on this, but it's my opinion.

[@dirtydeeds3454]

This is absolutely not true you’re watching but not watching nuances of todays game is much better than it was in MJ era

[@michaelahurt]

Ben has talked around this whole idea at length on the podcasts and specifically about MJ in his greatest peaks series. The short version is the biggest thing that's changed in the last 20 years isn't the stars; it's everyone else. The skill level of your 4th, 8th, 12th best players is WAY higher today than it was 10 years ago and beyond, but the skill of level of your stars, not so much. They just have different skills. (Almost all of the skills and moves we see today would literally have been illegal then. The stepbacks, dribble moves, euro steps -- all those are turnovers in 1995.) He wouldn't average 50 just because the math doesn't work. It's really hard to shoot more than 35 shots per 100 possessions and MJ's FT rates were already all-time elite.... That being said, Jordan's game was predicated on his ability to get to the basket and it is *exponentially* easier to get to the rim today with the loosened rules around ball handling, increased spacing, and reduced ability to grab and hold as a defender. I don't think that's even in question and that's what people are looking at. So unless you're argument is that he wasn't actually athletic, which, I mean, just watch the games, we're basically talking about a 6'6" Ja Morant with Zion's finishing ability and hang time, KD's midrange game and Booker's shot creation. So let's say he's at 35 shots per 100 possessions and 14 FT and plays 75 possessions per game. In a good year he probably shoots something like 75% at the rim, 60% inside 10 feet, and 50% from midrange (and 85% FT) on 40/40/20 splits (those are generous). If you do all the math that's 56.7 points per 100 which works out to only 42.5 ppg. That assumes he doesn't change his shot to shoot more threes, which obviously he would. Go look at LeBron in 2004 vs now. It's a completely different shot. So if you move half of those short midrange shots to threes at 35% that actually drops him down to 38.4 ppg. He still probably leads the league in scoring and would have a Jokic/Zion/Durant level silly high FG% in the 60s, but averaging 50? No way. Keep in mind Wilt played *over* 48 min per gm when he did that -- his pts/75 was about the same as Kobe, MJ, etc. -- and it's impossible to play that many minutes in the modern NBA.

[@taylor7264]

magic was so ahead of his time

[@constablekennedy7705]

The NBA has been on some Cheese this Season …. 🏀

[@bmcfonzie]

I don't know what that means, but I'm assuming you are indicating approval?

[@xSkxi]

AD video plz

[@michaelbarnes2126]

LeBron, Luka, CP3 & Joker are passing savants. Trey, Steph & Haliburton are just a tier below but are great

[@king_supreme1102]

Steph and Trae? Oof idk, good passers yes. But I think Haliburton is in a league above them. He’s rising to the top tier quickly if he’s not already there. The way he reads the game is next level.

[@michaelbarnes2126]

@@king_supreme1102 Trae was top 10 in scoring and lead the league in assists one year cmon son lol and I’ve seen some Steph passes that were boneheaded and I’ve seen some that were pretty great. Hali is really nice tho so I don’t disagree there

[@king_supreme1102]

@@michaelbarnes2126 idk what scoring has to do with it. This is talking about passing right

[@michaelbarnes2126]

@@king_supreme1102 LED THE LEAGUE IN ASSITS AT THE SAME TIME. Great passer

[@Oppenheimer1967]

@@michaelbarnes2126Luka, Jokic and CP3 are a tier above Lebron and Lebron is a tier above Steph.

[@The-Dom]

A great example of this is, what set Roger Federer apart from the rest... he disguised his shots, and steering his opponents shots by showing them one thing then anticipating the other.

[@nonamewillbegiven9989]

1d1ot

[@codyrichard7774]

amazing video but someone is breathing in the mic, try to fix that for the next video

[@gcade3974]

Nice

[@gcade3974]

Nice

[@Bmoney_2]

What happened to the top 10 players of 2022 video?

[@PutXi_Whipped]

Cool, now do a video on the team currently with the best offense in NBA history. 🍀

[@mrcoolguy2530]

Lame

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

You wished

[@ShynyMagikarp]

Anybody in the comments read the book yet? Big recommend?

[@jacobhorigan4825]

No faster click has ever happened

[@Ben01tM]

Is there any furniture in your house Ben? From the view of your facecam it looks like an empty apartment 😅

[@amariafields3270]

Hello Ben, do you have a business Email?

[@fitznchipz5090]

Top 10 2022?

[@steevehoyoufat9960]

How is Ben Taylor not on a NBA teams staff

[@Industrious420]

...lol, same reason why the "coach" from bbalbreakdown isn't a coach in the NBA.

[@Oppenheimer1967]

He doesn’t need to be

[@LLPOF]

Oldtimer : Jordan woulda scored 50 a game if he played today. Newtimer : Not our fault they weren't smart enough to figure out how to space the floor.

[@Youngster543210]

That was more of a progression over time, no single individual. If you existed in the 80's you'd be scratching your head at people shooting 24 foot jumpshots too.

[@LLPOF]

@@Youngster543210 I'm almost 60. From the very moment they put in the 3pt line I was bitching about no one using it to it's full advantage. Just ask anyone who knows me how annoying I was. 🤗

[@Oppenheimer1967]

@@LLPOFYet somehow in 2022 arguably the best player in basketball is a 23% 3pt shooter lol:

[@LLPOF]

@@Oppenheimer1967 You don't have to be a great 3pt shooter if your team spaces the floor with others who are good.

[@Oppenheimer1967]

@@LLPOF Thanks Captain obvious !

[@raygivler]

Didn't Adolf Rupp say that passing is the most important fundamental? I don't see how you can put it ahead of shooting, but it's a solid #2. WAY more important than all the time wasted on iso-dribble skills - there is a place for that, but it gets disproportionate attention.

[@KW-md1bq]

I really disagree with the comments about John Wall weaponizing jump passes. The coaches are right. Shorter point guards like Russ and Wall almost have no choice but to jump to pass inside the 3pt line and it absolutely leads to turnovers when they're being guarded by playoff calibre defenders. The beauty of Luka, Magic, Bron, Bird is they don't need to jump to make passes.

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

Haha at beauty

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

And i aint referring to Bird and Magic

[@javigar133]

It is so amazing watching Magic AND Bird doing those passes. We dont see that any more

[@user-bw6pt9dy6f]

dont we?

[@fumihiro8564]

You sure about that?

[@reelcrib5811]

Lebron and Jokic?

[@oldmanballer5088]

No looks have been around forever, I think it’s the lob that has come along way and is way more prevalent now than ever before. I’m old I’ve seen pistol Pete, Clyde frazier, Pearl Washington, Magic, Bird and more use the no look it’s nothing new to me. The lobs including floater lobs are definitely something that’s never been prevalent than now. It’s great. I still think a jump pass is a bad pass unless you’re a certain type of passer. Most players turn it over more doing that but there are exceptions.

[@PranjalDhungana]

Didn't you say that the passing in the early 40s and 50s were the golden era of passing? Because there was no space on the floor, almost every possession required some kind of amazing pass to get the ball to the rim?

[@fumihiro8564]

You could make the point but I don't think anybody gives a damn about segregation basketball

[@Oppenheimer1967]

Probably in terms of passing difficulty

[@t4d0W]

Different context I guess. There is a difference trying to 'innovate' when an idea is novel in competitive play to pushing that innovative idea further under an established set of rules, standards and schemes.

[@soloistdeve]

As long as you cannot touch or hand-check a player at the offense, everything is revolutionary as fuq. It's like watching high jump athletes gloating about never stumbling because they removed the bar, jumping without an obstacle. It's very exciting...

[@fumihiro8564]

??? That's abit of a stretch cause if anything the Pick and Roll and Floor Spacing have impacted passing far more than hand checking

[@soloistdeve]

@@fumihiro8564 My point is you can't have that spacing with there is tough defense allowed. Nobody can run around the court, everybody is manhandled in some way. Where do you space I wonder?

[@fumihiro8564]

@@soloistdeve wasn't Reggie Miller in the 90s? Like cmon dog you seriously can't think hand checking will just reverse all of modern knowledge about the game

[@soloistdeve]

@@fumihiro8564 If you're not familiar with a contact sport, I don't know what to tell you. It's basic physics. You can't move around the court like this if the defense is allowed to hand-check and push you all the time. They have this knowledge because there is no tough defense, otherwise, it would be a dog-eat-dog all over again. What kind of knowledge can save you when you got an elbow in your kidney? Players back then were playing through actual pain.

[@fumihiro8564]

@@soloistdeve you realize an elbow isn't hand checking yes?

[@tylerrobblee8038]

Scottie wins ROTY and suddenly everyone is Magic lmao

[@g_superson1c255]

8:31 Harden’s defense is so bad right here 😭

[@doge1590]

LEBRON CP3 POINT GOD JOKER LUKA MAGIC All Time great passer here.

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

Nope. M/oron

[@maxshapiro8489]

Trae had some dimes last night. Do a video on the hawks.

[@BuzzworthyBand]

Passing precipitated by great cutting due to floor spacing.

[@AKSBSU]

Hmm, I grew up as a kid watching legends Magic vs. Bird, two "once in a generation" level passers, go to war for a decade on two of the best passing teams in history starring two of the best passers and overall players in history. They're also the guys the top passers now copied. You are claiming were are in the golden age of passing NOW? I'll listen, but that's a tough sell.

[@KlNG_]

Why ? Because Tyrese Haliburton is playing basketball

[@king_supreme1102]

Dude is a next level distributor. If he’s averaging 11 with this team I don’t see him ever averaging under 10 in his prime. And even the averages don’t fully illustrate how smart he is.

[@MindfulAttraction2.0]

To me joker will be the greatest passer ever next to bird and magic

[@-hunt-6225]

Luka is better than him at passing but Jokic is second.

[@MindfulAttraction2.0]

@@-hunt-6225 Luca is a better playmaker but joker is a better passer. Imo cus joker has the ball wayyyyy less than Luka and isn't as aggressive at scoring as Luka

[@DrMuffin1080]

@@-hunt-6225 Luka is a better shot creator arguably, but Jokic is still a better passer

[@panaceiasuberes6464]

NBA is the cure for baseball.

[@jeffknight9292]

Passing honsetly is ok you luckily have a couple of guys that can pass but I’ll say ball movement is dead. Everything is mismatch hunting with pick and roll or iso on a big man

[@RLSmith-jt8qj]

Are you kidding me. Ball movement is back

[@fumihiro8564]

Bro watch a Warriors game or even a Spurs game at this point. Even the "Iso" teams like the Sixers, Nets, Mavs have amazing ball movement. The game has evolved to the point that ball swings happen naturally at this point.

[@jeffknight9292]

@@RLSmith-jt8qj not really only a like 3 teams move the ball and that’s cause of the shooter themselves take him out the game and it’s back to pick and roll the spurs do the same thing lol

[@Martin-tr4sj]

@@jeffknight9292 There is more heliocentric ball but it just makes sense given the spacing on the court

[@jeffknight9292]

@@Martin-tr4sj I get it but no matter the definition in simplicity it’s one person holds the ball and makes the plays. But if these contracts didn’t force players to be selfish with these incentives, basketball/sports wouldn’t seem so forced at times especially with all this gambling being promoted

[@seventhraikage2538]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3mql6OtoL6Upas Brown’s play at the 2:27 mark in this video is a great example of manipulation, positioning & using the eyes. Great video guys. Keep up the great work

[@benw7367]

Ben, I know this isn't your thing but you have the tools, the viewers, the mind. I need a video of "all" of magic's no look passes that were turnovers, the look away jumpers curry bricked and anything else you all can come up with. Thank you for the content.

[@TrillBill]

2 words: Jason Williams (White Chocolate)

[@MACHOMAN-tw8op]

I wanna see a complete highlight of all flashy passes by LeBron. I feel his passes are just incredible.

[@nonamewillbegiven6847]

Shutup fanboy

[@mars2b]

People always speak about how fundamentally sound MJ was, but he "jumped passed" ALL THE TIME! Which is a cardinal sin in basketball.

[@RLSmith-jt8qj]

It's only a sin if it's a turnover

[@bmcfonzie]

He also dunked over three guys all the time (at least in his early years) and I wouldn't suggest most other players try that either. Just because you have this "rule" doesn't mean all players need to observe it all the time. Different players have different capabilities, so the "rules" will be different for them. No look passing is another example. Or dribbling behind the back or between the legs. These things can help skilled players create open shots, but for lesser skilled players they are more likely to hurt their cause than to help it.

[@imdbtruth]

Luka no-looks more than he looks when he passes.

[@j4755]

Booker isn’t top 10 btw

[@meljay337]

95 points in his last 2 games. Shot 80%, only missing 5 shots to drop 50 last game. And is leading his team to the number 1 seed without Paul and Cam. That's not top 10 to you? One of only a handful of players with several 40 point games this season already

[@j4755]

@@meljay337 me when a 2 game sample size determines player rankings 🙀

[@CJ_Tha_Mofo]

he isnt, chill

[@meljay337]

@@j4755 Go look at the stats and see if it's just a 2 game sample size. Man's is a walking 30, with his points being meaningful and leading to team success unlike a lot of players who jack up 25 shots every night just to get 30

[@hardywoodaway9912]

@@meljay337 lol Hooker Jacks over 21 a game

[@Emopleon239]

Ill say lebron james made passing popular because of the many times he would set up his teammates for wins and this i think what motivated every team to use the Pass alot more

[@erroneouse1929]

He’s number all time in turnovers and ain’t top 5 in assists it definitely wasn’t him

[@RLSmith-jt8qj]

@@erroneouse1929 LeBron is definitely one of the great passers in nba history

[@Oppenheimer1967]

Lebron made passing popular according to what ?

[@PandaDonG]

I think Lebron’s style influenced certain players like Luka, but I don’t think that influence extends to entire teams. Passing and cutting as a team is more so based on teams like the Spurs & the Warriors having success through ball movement.

[@t4d0W]

What if I told you even by the time Lebron had all the fanfare and hype as a rookie that the Sacramento Kings was one of those teams known for their all around passing game? Fact is great team passing is always infectious and always required talents that had the skillsets to create mismatches and thus make efficient decisions off that. You can't have good team passing when your best team finisher is an inefficient black hole to score the basket.

[@willhooke]

4:24 is he talking basketball or covid response? 🤔

[@jonathang1080]

😐