WHY WERE CHRISTIANS SLAVE OWNERS!?

[@Pangburn]

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[@YvesDarbouze]

These men are dangerous and anyone who follows them and listens to them are even more dangerous

[@johnwalker6140]

We don’t think you are being a weasel Jordan, you are a weasel through and through and people are starting to catch on

[@AshamMabewa]

You said clearly. He's so dubious with mental gymnastics.

[@gigaware4533]

He's more ethereal not a weasel he conceded alot of points

[@PaTrick-cf6ev]

Weasels are such nice animals, he's more like a blob of snot that slimes its way everywhere :D

[@teknoaija1762]

@@gigaware4533 This is part of being a weasel.You concede some points to make you look better and then comes BUT BUT.

[@picklerick8971]

​I swear every time he starts talking, my mind just wanders off since he just keeps going and going about metaphors and irrelevant examples

[@bomblade15]

Christianity fought to end slavery. Okay. Christianity fought to keep slavery.

[@stevenbatke2475]

And the bible condones slavery, far more than it ever condemns it.

[@bomblade15]

@stevenbatke2475 Does it ever condemn it?

[@stevenbatke2475]

@@bomblade15not outright, I don’t think it does.

[@Anonymous_Service_Leaks]

@@stevenbatke2475The Bible never condoned slavery I get it guys I messed up this reply, I thought the man was saying that slavery never stopped, stop bullying me with facts :v

[@stevenbatke2475]

@@Anonymous_Service_Leaks only many times, but okay… Chattel, debt, concubinage, and war slavery are all included in there.

[@TheRabidPanda]

Jordan is such a joke. He obviously avoids direct questions, because you can't defend the bible with black and white morales. And calling out an obvious and legitimate rebuttal to his own argument (ie the bible is written as a fictional document) doesn't take away from the legitimacy of the argument. Big words, and long confusing sentences don't make you right. I love that he admits that all he has is rubble to make his arguments. He's trying to rebuild something that was torn down for very good reasons.

[@budd2nd]

Yes, I totally agree with you. Jordan 100% is a joke. He has only got where he is today (I think) because he uses long convoluted sentences and thought processes. He hides his lack of courage in his convictions and critical thinking, in those long convoluted sentences. Which other people feel intimidated by, and therefore think he must be super smart. I mean, he may well be an intelligent man, but I dislike him intensely because of his weasely demeanour. Every time I see him, I want to shout “just give us a straight answer !”

Dr. Jordon Peterson is the poster-child for the dangers of Clinical Psychology. 💙

[@chappie143]

He soeaks word salad, from a fancy restaurant.

[@Throughtheradar]

I came here to say the same thing

[@NWPaul72]

​@@chappie143 that's effing beautiful and I'm stealing it

[@highranking]

What I learned here is that Peterson invented the "Weave"

[@andreaskarlsson5251]

😂😂

[@richardowen2087]

And the "Bob"

[@dannygolightly865]

to Brits, "the weave" can really only refer to Trump's hairstyle (as it is a slang name for "hairpiece") .

[@youtubespag]

How exactly are we defining, "bob" and "weave"?

[@dlk3904]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@noheroespublishing1907]

"I would never give up on the position that all Religions are equally false." - Christopher Hitchens

[@reneportillo532]

Wokeism is also a religion. And the most dangerous one of all.

[@defenestratedalien1448]

@@reneportillo532 true, basically believing things on bad reasons

[@OneWithManyThings]

It’s not a “religion” in the literal sense, but it’s a pervasive ideology

[@Carneades2012]

@@reneportillo532 Would you like to define "wokeism?"--Because I think it's more of an attitude than a dogma.

[@reneportillo532]

@@Carneades2012 in wokeism, you have to call men women. Otherwise you are shamed. You have to believe that the world is going to end because we use oil. Right is wrong. Abortion is a moral right. Grown men dancing around in thongs in front of kids is acceptable. I can go on and on. You have to be religious to believe this kind of stupidity

[@anxietyonline1947]

Peterson found his audience, they just happen to be highly religious and he followed suit accordingly.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

He told Joe Rogan the truth. He said he had found a way to monetize the alt right. It's a grift.

[@j.whisper2379]

And they were applauding Sam more!

[@HellSpawn86]

Peterson didn't make a great case, however the US brought over about 400K slaves from Africa. The Soviets/Communists believed in Atheism and eradicating religion. They killed 20 million Christians between 1921 through 1980. Christianity has a complex set of morals, but overall calls for peace. Atheism has no set of morals and must be argued and debated constantly depending on who is defending it. I'd rather we have the overarching set of beliefs from Christianity.

[@NotSure723]

Sadly.

[@NeoRelic-o8p]

Religion is Mythology. Everyone needs to grow up and start seeing things for what they are.

[@Rio.Motel.84]

Religion for grownups is simply a transition from the infantile faith of Santa Clause leaving presents and the Easter Bunny pooping chocolate eggs.

[@rbettsx]

Mythology is important.

[@lrvogt1257]

@@rbettsx : Mythology can be informative, even inspiring, but believing things that are not factual leads to bad choices.

[@NeoRelic-o8p]

@@rbettsx Agree 💯. But it needs to be recognized for what it is.

[@Evan-s7r]

Religion is an escape from reality. You see recovering drug addicts get hooked on hardcore religion, every time. Religion is no better than crack, alcohol, whatever.

[@bentaft8791]

Why doesn’t Jordan Peterson answer questions?

[@tisithecount4198]

Because he’s a crackpot.

[@hermixtonen]

Because he is a con man . He knows he is wrong , but refuses to admit it , so tries to talk around it

[@MichaelBeatonx]

Because, in the end, he has no answer to give. In these matters and in these conversations, he’s horribly out to sea and has very little value to say/offer.

[@jonclanton2980]

He is a grifter. He make more money being a right wing tool. Right wingers are a cult and will pay for and to anyone who feeds their hate makes them feel powerful

[@Ron-wf5yw]

​@@MichaelBeatonxHe also has to keep in the good books of his religious fans.

[@whatwecalllife7034]

"These people's wouldn't defend slavery".....wellllll, if you talk to enough Christians you will definitely hear more than a few who defend slavery. What they usually do is ignore the actual slavery parts and assume that the accomodations afforded the the Israelites applied to everyone. There's an even smaller amount of people who straight up say that it's fine as it's laid out because it came from God. Do not rule out human stupidity.

[@annetteselent]

I agree. However…like that Mark Robinson from North Carolina, they always see themselves in the role of slave owner…not the slave. Funny that.

[@bige2220]

Indeed do never rule out human stupidity regardless of religion or atheists or any other group, one willI find stupidity in all camps, that’s an absolute truth!

[@Wuppie62]

​@@bige2220 Christianity is a camp, or knows several camps. Atheism isn't a camp. Atheism is just different people who are not part of any deity worshipping camp.

[@bige2220]

@@Wuppie62 atheism is just different people, ok sure, that do not believe in any deity, well there you go your in a camp regardless of whether you want to or not, the non-deity believing camp.

[@Wuppie62]

@bige2220 It's only a 'camp' in your mind, because apparently you want it to be (or need it to be) and say so to yourself. That doesn't make it a camp with an actual shared belief, like i.e. christians or muslims, in my book. It's important not to falsify a-theism into 'another belief', because these aren't people who all subscribe to a common believe system with convictions, scriptures, meaning, rules, rituals, etc. It's also not a shared culture, political movement, or world view. For similare reasons you don't say that all the world's men, women and children who happen to not be a fan or member of a certain football club, belong to 'the camp of non-football'.

[@crufflerdoug]

To Jordan Peterson: “I want to ask you a clarifying question.” Jordan Peterson: “Enjoy the following word salad.”

[@hellucination9905]

It's not word salad. Peterson is trying to think through the issue while talking. He speaks essayistically.

[@crufflerdoug]

@@hellucination9905 good one! 🤣 “Speaking essayistically” is a perfect description of his dissembling.

[@johncobourne361]

You'd get some crap marks if you wrote it down, so how is it essayist? It's flowery drivel that contains very little of use.​@@hellucination9905

[@LeeWang-y9z]

​@@hellucination9905 there's speaking 'essayistically' and then there is dodging the question.

[@crufflerdoug]

@@LeeWang-y9z Indeed. He only “speaks essayistically” (I love that) when he realizes a simple answer would undermine his position. Obfuscation is a form of insincerity.

[@shetlandapache949]

I love the argument that "it was christians that ended slavery" its a great way to show you are arguing in bad faith.

[@erickcrago2637]

Not really. People, movements, and morality change. Christianity is no different

[@richardowen2087]

@@erickcrago2637 How can the "Word Of GOD" change?

[@LittleJohnnyFirePants]

@@erickcrago2637the point of this objection is that Christians claim to have a definitive moral compass. If this can be updated depending on societal change - it’s not a definitive source of your morality..

[@OceanusHelios]

@@erickcrago2637 Christianity only changes when it is forced to and is given no other choice, and then it plays a long game to revert back to barbaric practices all over again. It changes its slogans, but it doesn't change at all. It's still fracturing even within the believers. Everybody in that religion certifies themselves as experts on their god, because everybody in that religion has their own god and none of them really match up where it matters. Furthermore, the Christians can't even decide about their own bible, and that book isn't 2000 years old. There is handwaving on all this "evidence" that doesn't exist. And that is the only true solid thing about Christianity. Lying.

[@johns1625]

​@erickcrago2637 So morality isn't objective and dictated by God. Glad we sorted that out.

[@Harry-hq8fi]

I love the way Sam plays Peterson for the fool he is.

[@gavriloprincip11]

i would hate to be the waiter asking Peterson if he wanted white or whole wheat toast with his brunch

[@TheOicyu812]

You have to interpret the atom in the molecule, and the molecule in the bran, and the bran in the wheat kernel, and the wheat kernel in the context of the entire toast.

[@GrammeStudio]

well depends on what you mean by white and whole wheat seriously, i bet a couple of audience were falling off their chairs laughing when he seem to realise for a brief moment how much he sounded like a postmodernist just listen to how much legitimacy he gives subjective experience, but hey only for religious folks' personal experience but never to transgenders' internal experience in fact since postmodernists 'merely' believe that scientific facts and moral truths are both social construct, peterson is actually a post-postmodernist for believing that scientific facts are less real than moral truths

[@rickyelvis3215]

and the mould on the bread!

[@alexpetitcomedy]

What is toast exactly? That is part of the fundamental hierarchy of bread no doubt. Which reminds me about the works of Tolstoy, and his relationship to the meta narrative of breakfast

[@JarethGT]

Depends on what you mean by "whole" and "wheat". If you're "whole" than you can be holy. Which is part of the power hierarchy of food, that is rooted in metaphorical substrate of human perception.

[@forloveofthepage2361]

Giving Christianity the credit for ending slavery is like giving the arsonist credit for putting out the fire.

[@fishizzle8588]

Slavery existed for thousands of years before Christianity.

[@artychartybyjackmerlinbruc7134]

All sorts of people claim “to have ended slavery” Americans The British Empire Christians But your comment applies to all of the above

[@erhan1255]

​@@artychartybyjackmerlinbruc7134 they didn't start slavery, just did it better

[@TeaParty1776]

@@artychartybyjackmerlinbruc7134 Brits and the US ended slavery

[@joshecker6907]

​@@TeaParty1776did France not have us beat?

[@SocietyIsCollapsing]

JP found his market, and he's merely grifting them. Next.

[@darylhill9400]

Precisely right he doesn’t want to upset the right wing.

[@shadrachboye8002]

​@@darylhill9400 yeah y he should have been impressing the liberals?

[@ricksmith1382]

Sam Harris won. Peterson is making a fool of himself.

[@LeleksPeleks]

It's not about winning. It's about understanding each other. Peterson doesn't try to understand, he's trying to sound smart and make academic gestures.

[@OceanusHelios]

@@LeleksPeleks Pseudo-academic. Peterson sounds like an academic, but isn't one and most people are too dumb to realize that because they never attended college. Academics would chew him up and spit him out.

[@TeaParty1776]

holy fool

[@PIANOPLAYJAZZ]

6:40 Peterson almost said "I'm really not listening to either of you because I only want to hear myself"

[@vincp5490]

Imagine being an intellectual who defends religious dogma...

[@barryween4478]

Petersen isn't an intellectual, he just knows how to sound like one to the uneducated.

[@ScottishRoyal1]

He's grifting hard. He's found his source of income and he'll keep at it.

[@chatzigeorgiougeorge885]

When it comes to human written books by philosophers, journalists, writers, etc., etc., we judge the statements line by line, paragraph by paragraph. Yet, when we speak about books supposedly written or inspired by God, we lose our right of criticism with similar criteria?

[@TeaParty1776]

the unfocused mind has reasons of its own

[@TaylorJamz]

Bingo. The creator gave you a powerful, analytical brain and then demanded you not use the gift where "it" was concerned.

[@gking407]

Every sufficient atheist argument can be made in less than a minute, while Christianity-Judaism-Islam have had thousands of years to get it right….. yet they need more time (and money, power, control, suffering, tribal hatred, etc etc)

[@bige2220]

What a simpleton you are

[@mattsims7530]

Atheists have eons of accumulated data to lean on.

[@susanwjoh0re735]

and now there is the religion of gender and everybody suffers.

[@johns1625]

Question: Are there any religious views that are clearly not acceptable today? JP: just says "dominance heirarchy metaphysical substrate coherent narrative" forty times

[@teknoaija1762]

I d say that bible narrative starting humanity twice with massive incest is not acceptable.I see bible as outdated writings that testify to our barbaric roots.

[@polarbear4612]

The more he involves himself in religious debates, the more Deepak Peterson falls into becoming the post modernist he says he despises.

[@victory7213]

He has always been a radical constructivist

[@TPspunk]

They should give Jordan a time limit.

[@davidlazaro3937]

A time limit or a word limit. There’s a limit to my patience indulging his gobbledygook.

[@SuperEdge67]

I’d say a word limit………and ban the use of the term ‘metaphysical substrate’.

[@Jwight1984]

Why stop him from making a fool of himself?

[@TheNeonParadox]

I swear every Jordan Peterson debate is identical. He gets caught in a contradiction, then spends the next ten minutes trying to word salad his way out of it. It's nice to see him with someone like Sam who finally says, "Get to the rifle in your argument."

[@jackalsgate1146]

Weinstein - No Chrstn living today would try and justify slavery. Response - Say hello to Cliffe Knechtle, Stuart Knechtle, Frank Turek, all of Cross Examined, Inspiring Philosophy, William Lane Craig, David Wood, and their fan base that leans on every word they say.

[@erickcrago2637]

Massive numbers there. How many Christians total?

[@jackalsgate1146]

@erickcrago2637 You - How many Chrstns total.? Response - Well . . . if you're a typical Chrstn I guarantee your excuse for slavery in the Old Testament would be: that wasn't really slavery, that was debt servitude, which was actually a good thing. Lmfao . . . you're a joke.

[@jackalsgate1146]

@erickcrago2637 You - How many Chrstns total.? Response - Well . . . if you're a typical Chrstn I guarantee your excuse for slavery in the Old Testament would be: that wasn't really slavery, that was debt servitude, which was actually a good thing. Lmfao . . . what a tool.

[@jackalsgate1146]

@erickcrago2637 You - How many Chrstns total.? Response - Well . . . if you're a typical Chrstn, I guarantee your excuse for slavery in the Old Testament would be: that wasn't really slavery, that was debt servitude, which was actually a good thing. Lmfao . . . what a tool.

[@youtubespag]

@@erickcrago2637 each of these guys have a following. Check it out, get back to us with those numbers.

[@bobbydougherty5205]

JP never answers questions, sprays BS all over the walls to distract.

[@RobertBlahunka]

Thou shall not kill is in the 10 Commandments, yet Jews killed to get to the "Promised Land". Christians have killed ever since Constantine Prayed to the Prince Of Peace for victory in War.

[@geoffchurchill5492]

Peterson never deals with the fact that he arrogantly supposes he knows what the canonical interpretation of the bible is, which kind of goes against some of the principle in the bible he holds so dear

[@ConradSpoke]

Why was Christianity completely dormant on the subject of slavery for two-thousand years?

[@arunnair7584]

Most likely because it was very profitable

[@TeaParty1776]

@@arunnair7584 because suffering requires rationalization

[@RavenToLeviathan]

Because the institution of slavery was deeply embedded into the fabric of society and Christians aren't all powerful. I looked at the bible and it had a few things to say. I'm paraphrasing, but these are from Exodus and Jesus. "Slaves will serve their masters well" - Jesus "If a master kills their slave unjustly then he shall be punished" - Exodus "A slave shall be set free after 7 years" - Exodus "If a master knocks out an eye or a tooth of their slave then they shall be set free today" - Exodus So broadly speaking, respect the slaves, respect the master, and the slave will go free after 7 years. Slavery was deeply embedded in the fabric of large scale societies. Entire economies had their food supplies calibrated with slavery in mind. It's a hard problem to undo when you find it, and I'd argue we continue to find ways to enslave people to this day (student debt, for example). What greater problems might you unknowingly inject were you to simply command abolishment? Job deals with your statement on a more broad level when God outlines the problem he had to kill in order to usher in creation, and God more or less tells Job "Don't complain about existence unless you're capable of actually solving the problems you perceive". I'd argue a society with ethically treated slaves is a much easier ask of the Israelites and every single newly converted society than asking them to immediately recalibrate their entire labor systems and supply chains as a condition of accepting Christ. Given their situations, slaves treated with respect and a pathway to freedom may have been the best they could do. And when juxtaposed with the teachings of "Don't steal, don't murder, treat others you see with respect", internal slavery either goes away on its own (because you won't force people into slavery with violence), externally sourced slaves see a pathway to freedom (Your country is not equipped to stop foreign slavers), and a society with slaves in this fashion will algorithmically tend to only use slaves when necessary for survival and then tend away from it as they saw genuine prosperity. And this is what happened. Eventually the United States was prepared to properly mount their moral high-horses and undo slavery without ending western civilization, at only the cost of a few hundred thousand men. What a reckoning and a nearly nation-ending sacrifice it required. tl;dr. Probably because nobody wanted to unless over their dead bodies, and Christians writ large were not able to perform that.

[@arunnair7584]

​@@TeaParty1776Not always. Sometimes suffering just is, without a clear reason or justification. Rationalization can help us make sense of it, but it's not always necessary or even possible. Sometimes suffering is self-inflicted because we let our thoughts, emotions, and memories overpower us. There can be other reasons too. Sometimes when we live unconsciously, reacting to life without awareness or control, suffering becomes inevitable. Sometimes holding onto rigid ideas of who we are or clinging to external circumstances can lead to suffering. Sometimes, resistance to the way things are or wanting the world to conform to our expectations often leads to frustration and suffering. I am not talking about physical suffering here.

[@arunnair7584]

@@RavenToLeviathan That’s an impressively detailed rationalization, but let’s not miss the forest for the trees. The argument boils down to: slavery was a *necessary evil* because societies weren't ready to function without it, and the Bible provided a moral framework to at least regulate it. But here's the rub: if we're crediting divine intervention and moral teachings from an all-powerful source, wouldn't we expect a more definitive stance against *any* form of human ownership? Sure, transitioning societies to a slave-free existence was complex. Yet, the idea that slavery had to persist "ethically" until it could be phased out seems more like human justification than divine wisdom. After all, didn’t Christianity later inspire abolitionists to *immediately* demand freedom for all, regardless of the logistical chaos? As for the "slaves treated well and freed after 7 years," those rules often excluded non-Hebrew slaves, who were treated more as property indefinitely. That loophole feels less like moral progress and more like moral compromise. Yes, societal evolution made abolition possible, but if the claim is divine foresight, it’s fair to ask why the seeds of abolition weren’t more explicitly sown from the start. The Bible could’ve at least declared: “Slavery is wrong, but here’s how to manage it until you figure out better.” Instead, it left us centuries to grapple with interpretations and excuses, some of which-like this one-still echo today.

[@rogerdittus2952]

Sam Harris' palm must've been stinging by the end of this exchange because absolutely spanked JP here.

[@troonpoon2]

No matter how precise the question you ask Jordan he'll find a way to make it more granular to that he can be percieved as "not wrong". He clearly suffers the philosophers curse of grossly overcomplicating things in order to sound more wise.

[@russellstone9056]

This debate is ignoring major points as far as the religious question goes. Christianity is exactly like islam. It creates the same divisions, encompasses many of the same evils and is responsible for wars and persecution as much as Islam. Christians claim that if you do not believe in God and Jesus you are going to hell to be tortured by a loving God forever. Muslims believe that if you don't believe in Allah and Muhammad you are going to hell forever and going to be tortured by a being worthy of being worshiped and admired. Religion causes pain and suffering and anguish and mental disorders. The cognitive dissonance involved with saying that God is love and at the same time knowing he has done all these horrible things, including drowning millions of people and promising to torture billions of people in the end forever. It is said that you will behave like the god you worship. For Christians God hates people who don't believe, for Muslims God hates people who don't believe. The hate that they hold secretly in their hearts is inevitable because they will behave like the god they believe in. Sweden is purported to be one of the happiest countries in the world, if not the happiest, and they are also the most secular. I speak from much experience having been persecuted by a fundamentalist family and living in an extreme area of the Bible belt.

[@dvb8637]

Actualy its the Netherlands who are the most happiest in the world as reports and data shows for many decades. And bare in mind that majority of the dutch are atheists.

[@jonclanton2980]

Jordon, who were the non-Christians in England that could have convinced the parliament to get outlaw slavery, the slaves?

[@arunnair7584]

The movement to abolish slavery in England was driven by a diverse group of individuals, many of whom were not directly impacted as slaves but were deeply committed to the cause. These included: Abolitionists and Reformers: Non-Christian figures, such as Enlightenment thinkers, who valued liberty and human rights, contributed to the intellectual foundation against slavery. Some of these were secular or followed non-Christian philosophies. Former Slaves and Free Black Activists: Figures like Olaudah Equiano and Mary Prince, who, while Christian, represented enslaved communities and shared their experiences to sway public opinion. Radical Political Groups: Groups like the Chartists and others who championed broad social justice issues might have supported abolition from a secular or non-religious perspective.

[@savvytravvi8660]

Peterson seems to be suffering from something because wtf

[@chriskelly1890]

The Mormons got racism beaten out of them from the outside. It was a 150 year battle before the Mormons finally folded on racism.

[@mattsims7530]

Have they really.

[@michaelgrey7854]

Not deep down. I grew up 40 years as a Mormon. I was taught that every Black person will be changed to white in the next life. Its also in the book of mormon. So no they have not. It's just buried in their beliefs.

[@jayboom3918]

That being said, it is paramount to closely listen what people like him are saying and not being lulled by grandiose explanations.

[@diegonunes1970]

My favorite part was when Perterson realized he is a Postmodernist and then threw Jews under the bus.

[@jayboom3918]

I find it quite interesting that the so-called word of God is not being updated anymore. Why is it just a two episode drama? Was it just a ANCIENT DRAMA, classic movie so to speak? When was the last time that it has been updated? The answer is it hasn’t because it is purely fiction. Apparently God stopped talking in the way he did with supposedly the writing of that piece off literature. Maybe God has retired.

[@OceanusHelios]

The word of God (the bibles, whichever one you want, because one of them is bound to be wrong) are constantly updated because the people of the religion found the older ones unfit. If one of these bibles, pick one, was good enough, you'd think they would just be happy with it and not change it. But they have changed it....ever since it was concocted out of the pamphlets they cherry picked.

[@bige2220]

Well the final act was that of pure sacrifice, so I would say it’s a drop the mic moment and all has been said, maybe many just are not listening anymore, really nothing new when it comes to man.

[@daveyboots79]

​@@bige2220The whole 'kill your child to prove your love' idea is gross, and was clearly man's idea.. what's hard to understand about that?

[@bige2220]

@@daveyboots79 and now you show your complete inability to comprehend, as this was not a" kill your child" premise, it is the act of sacrifice to save man as man can not save himself regardless of all the good deeds man does. Regardless of what faith or lack of or complete denial of, you would do yourself good to study up on something you obviously do not understand, I do my best to do just the same before making such accusations about any subject I am not well versed in and would recommend you do the same.

[@daveyboots79]

@@bige2220 Ahh yes, the 'you just don't understand' argument.. often used by those who have no rational argument to make. Look, sacrificing stuff to appease a grumpy god is as old as religion itself, when Jesus supposedly got 'sacrificed' by his dad it was clearly because this is what they thought was hot stuff at the time.. it wasn't even a new idea, just a sad reflection of man's complete inability to understand their world at the time

[@carlhall4967]

If there is such a thing as "Word Salad-ology" Jordan Peterson is its most preeminent practitioner. He uses as many words as possible to say as little as possible and he can find complexity in the simplest of expressions.

[@TeaParty1776]

you have not read hegel kant heidegger

[@crimsonguy723]

And with all the hand gesticulations I think he earns the nickname "salad fingers".

[@exiledfrommyself]

I never thought about it this way before, but it's true that Christians can be found on both sides of any issue. There were Christians who staunchly defended slavery, while others were staunchly against it.

[@brnfrmjts05]

And, the abolitionists rejected scripture to do so.

[@markoshun]

Christians make the same point about scientists. That in the beginnings it was Christians who made the progress. True, but there just wasn’t anybody else to do the job and is therefore beside the point. Not to mention the church often worked to shut it down. Christians had also actively spent a couple thousand years ostracizing, jailing, even killing, non Christians. So, to then use the point of Christian scientists’ making the progress is pretty darn rich.

[@OneWithManyThings]

It’s…it’s as if Bronze Age text, written by folks who didn’t even know what a germ was, isn’t a useful means of communicating anything clearly

[@pomegranatepip2482]

Because they are such a watered down lot with such different interpretations.

[@stevemacgruther4051]

I found Jesus, he was under the couch with the cat toys.

[@ThisguyQuake]

Does he ever just answer a question?

[@danf7568]

The beauty of the internet is that it enables interesting interacting discussions about different views from individuals on politics, religion, etc.

[@paal8193]

1st commandment "You shall have no other gods before Me." ... right there "God" admits there actually are other "gods" ... "He" could not even get that one correct. What a JOKE that book is

[@davehalls9928]

A question for the Pangburn team: why do you feature Jordan Peterson so much? I’m not saying you should “cancel” or “deplatform” him but nearly all of the comments about him are very negative, to say the least. But looking at the Pangburn video list, it looks like JP is popping up very frequently. Again, not saying he shouldn’t be on this channel, but isn’t it time to give other voices a chance? Whether one likes JP or not there needs to be more variety.

[@brothajohn]

Jordan “I’m trying to find the perfect important philosophical pieces in the rubble,”. No, you truly want to preserve the rubble and rebuild the crumbling structure it comes from.

[@miketars3208]

IT IS SIMPLE....... IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT YOU CAN FIND A PASSAGE THAT CONDONES AND JUSTIFIES ANY IMORAL BEHAVIOR !!!!!!!!!

[@NightBane345]

Religion in a nutshell

[@bige2220]

Indeed man can do that with religion, politics, war, just about anything as that’s exactly what man has been doing since the beginning of time.

[@robert522]

When my Nephew was around 7 yrs old he and I were looking at world maps. He asked me where is God and I replied well it certainly is not on a map!😂

[@Oldmaster51]

I’d like to see all religions replaced with rational conversations and critical thinking.

[@wesleywashington1251]

If Jordan honestly answered a yes or no question he'd lose his audience. To retain their support he has no choice but to dodge direct questions or just outright lie. He's a dishonest weasel everyone should move on from.

[@Koopsta59]

I’m always so surprised at how often Peterson has been given platforms to spew his nonsense. The man incapable of answering simple questions yet he still shows up to get schooled every single time

[@gavriloprincip11]

Dance Jordan Dance

[@tongleekwan1324]

It is a waste of time listening to J. Peterson. He talked for an hour without actually saying anything in substance or answering atheists questions

[@jayboom3918]

I honestly have no clue why Jordan Peterson is so fond of religion, given his background in intellectual analytics. He uses his in general brilliant intellect to bend the narrative of religious doctrine to his liking. This has nothing to do with analytics but inexplicable bias.

[@InMyCups]

Because it pays $$$ and the cult worship of young white Christian men, he has helped radicalize, feed his ego and also, every Crime and Punishment book club has banned him and his archetypes.

[@youtubespag]

Think about the money. I think it may be a selection method to sell self help books. The people that are able to see through it would not buy more than 1 book.

[@reveivl]

It's all about the grift.

[@daveyboots79]

Mentioning Peterson's 'brilliant intellect' is like discussing how fine the stitching is on the emperor's robes is ... wake up and smell the decaffeinated coffee

[@johniec5282]

Money, maybe?

[@jonjosenna5581]

Jordan can speak for 12 hours solid and not convey anything of substance to his listeners at all. I mean keep stringing sentences together and make money but you definitely make zero sense?!

[@bulkvanderhuge9006]

JBP: "I USE THE BIG WORDS!"

[@witwisniewski2280]

Hateful, angry, self-entitled people read the Old Testament; kind, caring, loving, compassionate people read the New Testament. Why is it that most American Christians dwell on the Old Testament and Book or Revelation?

[@bryanmack5410]

Why can’t Petersen just speak normally? Ever?

[@FreddyStairs]

Because he wants to hold two contradictory beliefs at once.

[@mathews0618]

I like how sam kept him on topic. Or tried to. Jordans word salad is exhausting

[@MG-ot2yr]

Its that innate sense of morality they claim to get from their god.

[@abelfonseca]

Im tired of Peterson always resorting to saying a whole lot of nothing.

[@walter6574]

Why do I get bored listening to JP? Is it because I live in a world where we expect instant gratification? I'm 66 years old and don't mind waiting for gratification. With JP it never seems to come as I forget what he started talking about by the time he gets to the punch line. I miss the point.

[@hellucination9905]

Listen more carefully. Peterson talks essayistically - like he is actually thinking through the issue while talking.

[@reedwycoff6937]

​@@hellucination9905his ramblings impress people that are not smart.

[@santa_christ]

Don’t worry, by the time he’s reached the end JP has forgotten what he’s talking about as well. You can zone out for a while and when you tune back in his voice is still going and he’s still saying nothing.

[@daveyboots79]

​@@hellucination9905So tell us, succinctly, what his answer was. You don't know either though huh, but those big university words sure are dazzling

[@LeeWang-y9z]

Peterson dances around like a sad circus performer while Sam tries to reign him in, tired of his little neo-Jungian magic act. Glad so many people can see Peterson for the dubious, crafty little specimen that he is.

[@jasongrundy1717]

It's a commandment, don't covet your neighbor's slaves. Also Jesus told slaves to obey their masters.

[@ricardos312]

How is possible that Jesús said that if all the gospels were written 250 years after crist? And none of the apostols wrote them? For exámple isaias was written in a period of 350 years Explain that fanatic religious

[@treewalker1070]

No, He didn't.

[@treewalker1070]

@@ricardos312 The gospels were written in the 70s AD. But you're right, Jesus didn't say that.

[@davidlawrence2004]

Mark the oldest was written around 70 CE while last John may have been written at around 110 CE but all were written decades after biblical historians agree that that Jesus died.

[@jouzel8951]

Ephesians 6, says obey your masters.....Who wrote that, Jesus, God, the holy ghost, a Christian?

[@HansOster-d2y]

Jesus himself said in Matthew 7: 15-23 that nearly all the people who claim to follow him are frauds on their way to hell. Nobody who "owns" and abuses other humans is a follower of Jesus.

[@lrvogt1257]

Religion is one way to justify one's feelings of innate superiority or at least excuse taking advantage of others or blaming them for your problems.

[@bige2220]

What is your religion, because you now sound exactly like what you speak against, just as one with a superiority complex, welcome your self to that club now!

[@lrvogt1257]

@@bige2220 : One doesn't have to have an issue to recognize it elsewhere.

[@bige2220]

@@lrvogt1257 sure, however what you state goes for man in general, has nothing to do with a Christian per se......a follower of Christ should not(does not mean they do not falter and still do) show superiority over another, in fact Christ stated to forgive another 70x7 for anyone that has sinned against you (sin could include being arrogant towards someone and thinking they are superior over you), however as a follower of Christ one should not do this to another.

[@lrvogt1257]

@ you’re not wrong and yet it happens persistently in the US and has been why so many around the world throughout history have been willing to kill people of different religions.

[@lrvogt1257]

@@bige2220 tell it to the Canaanites.

[@Unknown_Pie]

How does Jordan know Chekov's gun as a "dictum", but not what it is called or that it is from a playwright? (Because there is not a tradition of great Russian screenwriters...)

[@RandyWinn42]

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." ---Ephesians 6:5 It's not ambiguous. The argument that Christians in the UK were at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement therefore Christianity is anti-slavery is the fallacy of "Hasty Generalization". It is as absurd as saying white people in the UK were at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement therefore white people were anti-slavery.

[@Vladd7]

“I’m NOT weaseling around” - bro who is definitely weaseling

[@drpenrose]

The “moderator” is on Peterson’s side.

[@shaneyule3484]

What's with petersons creepy spirit fingers?

[@asynchronicity]

The Bible condones slavery. A lot.

[@christopherambrose931]

JP is the best. I'd like to thank u specifically cos of all the things you said, my brain had a factory reset, and took a nap.....Thank You!!!

[@johnfulton4952]

“But… when you put the twist in it” That sums up Jordan’s mental gymnastics.

[@MrJayehawk]

You always need to save room for a bathroom break in between Jordan Peterson's rambling answers.

[@robinhood20253]

They thought their god gave them permission to own people , and he did.

[@danieltarczynski6559]

In what context would instructions for owning slaves make sense?

[@onbored9627]

That is a fascinating question.

[@daveyboots79]

I agree, fantastic question. The only example / situation I can think of is if the slaves aren't sentient.. machines, robots, AI .. nothing that existed when the bible was being etched that's for sure

[@johniec5282]

In that, the writers of the instructions benefit? It makes sense but is immoral.

[@IAmVictorFurious]

why do people insist on taking Jordan Peterson seriously? how does he keep getting invited to things? why must he start EVERY sentence with "so...so...so". why does he never truly answer the questions posed to him? trompe le monde

[@nestorlovesguitar]

Because he speaks relatively well, has a deep voice, dresses nicely, and has this ability of being able to lie to your face and bamboozle you with 10 dollar words. The guy is basically a highly educated grifter and has mastered the skill of not saying anything in one thousand words.

[@tonykearney3806]

Who invented Slavery and who ended slavery is what has produced results. This is what I think matters the most in the debate.

[@LDrosophila]

Sam asking for the rifle was brilliant!

[@daveyboots79]

Once you recognise post-modern ideas, you only return to structuralism when it's convenient for your argument. This is modern day religion

[@llh3025]

Post-modernist argument is something that once you see it, you can't un-see it. It's like narcissism, best just not to engage with it.

[@maciejrzepczyk6562]

St John Paul II, Pope, published a document listing roughly "100 sins of the catholic church" and begging for forgiveness. This includes the Crusades and the Slave Trade.

[@PB-0116]

A Canadian ferret methodically led towards the trap

[@asynchronicity]

Professor Kermit never fails to not impress.

[@nick3720]

"It isn't clear to me" "it isn't obvious to me" "I'm not so sure".... I notice Jordan says these phrases A LOT 😂

[@exoplanet11]

5:40 JP gets asked a simple Yes/No question that any rational person could answer right away. He smugly dodges the answer and is beginning to feel so proud of himself for changing the topic so well, when Sam reminds him to answer the damn question. This is all JP ever does, and he rarely gets called on it.

[@avi8r66]

I've said that a bunch of times, one of the redundant first few commandments could have been 'thou shalt not own people'. Given they were escaped slaves themselves that should have been an easy one.

[@streetpushtvtheagency6900]

I JUST ASKED JESUS FOR REPARATIONS 😮

[@KravRage]

I appreciate JP's awareness of how much he sounds like a post-modernist.

[@stevekap8]

If the last verse of the Koran was “just kidding!”, the speaker would have a good point.

[@roems6396]

“In case you think I’m weaseling around here…” This is the first time I’ve heard Peterson recognize his own tactics, mid sentence. It’s too bad he immediately denies it. He was self-aware for a brief moment.

[@ricardos312]

How is possible that Jesús said that if all the gospels were written 250 years after crist? And none of the apostols wrote them? For exámple isais was written in a period of 350 years Explain that fanatic religious

[@Gersh123]

Where can we watch the full video?

[@llamapenNHL]

This guy stepping outside of child psychology to blabber on about shit like this while making zero good points was such a tragic misstep.

[@sandorski56]

Hates to be a "Post Modernist", but totally understands why they exist and need to exist. Their viewpoints add much needed detail to many discussions.

[@OceanusHelios]

Detail like what? "Oh Victorian age am Gud!" Nah, "post modernists" are just a bunch of clowns who are nostalgic about a past that never existed and have a glassy eyed view of history. They cherry pick and have to dig up stuff from the 18th century that is no longer applicable in order to make some "profound statement."

[@llh3025]

We could get by just fine without post-modernists.

[@biggieb8900]

A man who strives to simplify as much as possible and communicate as effectively as possible to get to the truth debates a man who strives to overcomplicate as much as possible and be as cryptic as possible in an attempt to signal his profundity and intelligence.

[@takingiteasy17]

Pangbern really messed this whole event up

[@JohnHunterPlayerr]

Multiplication supersedes addition... So we don't need to know how to add for multiplication to work... Great logic benzocaine man

[@Bodybeautiful]

Peterson forgot the second half of the question 😂😂😂