Why you CANNOT kill World of Warcraft - [MMOPINION]

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World of Warcraft isn't just a game, it's a religion, it's a cult, it's a lifestyle.
Developers wanting to kill it, or players hoping it will die, are both foolish.
Even if a new, better game was released (and that has likely already happened) it will still not kill the W.o.W. culture.
Final Fantasy 14, Guild Wars 2, Runescape 3, Elder Scrolls Online, all tried, and all are VERY GOOD games, but none of them are good enough to destroy a culture.
Thank you to my Patreon supporters and Twitch subs for making all my content possible.

[@futtbuckerson7394]

The only “WoW killer” is Blizzard and they’re doing a pretty good job

[@hustle_simmons]

And you're completely right.

[@yoholup]

Activision*

[@ahorseofcourse7283]

@@yoholup Nah, Blizzard's sins can't be laid solely at the feet of Activision. Blizzard was a shitty and abusive place to work even before Activision came into the picture, and it's only gotten worse. They're so bad they somehow retroactively made good memories into bad ones.

[@TheSuicidalBird]

@@yoholup Blizzard has been a frat club since before Activision acquired it. It hurts to admit but Blizzard has always been garbage. Just they were able to put out some damn high quality games once upon a time.

[@gworfish]

Oh thanks. That gave me a genuine laugh.

[@MBoeltje41]

josh : why you cannot kill wow blizzard : hold my beer

[@legiohysterius4624]

Goddammit i was gonna post this

[@krykry606]

@@legiohysterius4624 There's always: Josh: Why you cannot kill wow Blizzard: And I took it personally

[@falcor200]

Yup this video aged like milk within the year lol

[@legiohysterius4624]

@@falcor200rude.. apologize to aged milk.

[@kyled00m]

I don't know if this is a joke or a possibility: Josh: you cannot kill WoW WoW Classic: Time to usurp my parent.

[@brucegay9569]

As a pokemon fan I must correct you. Pokemon started as a video game series on handheld consoles. the cards and anime came later. That being said though, you still make an excellent point.

[@exodore2000]

Also Pokemon Go for a short time was more popular than god. In numbers 60 million play Pokemon Go Wow has 5 million.

[@kennethferland5579]

Yea I have no interest in Pokemon and I knew that. I wonder if he was confusing it with Yugio, which was a show/card-game duel pronged thing right from the start.

[@crysosisback7115]

@@kennethferland5579 That's wrong, Yu gi oh was a manga at base, and not even about cards, the card part was just so popular that they cashed on it and made it big

[@boitahaki]

Yeah he is right about his analysis but I found it weird he thought pokemon started as an anime and says the card game is more popular than Magic (which is not)

[@trenchtierstudios554]

Also another correction; Magic the Gathering is the most popular card game and the gold standard that many card games strive to achieve. Wizards of the Coast really doesn't need to get out of their wheel house of making cards and running an online version of the game. While Pokemon has garnered all around fame due to their many licensed products; including nintendo games, tv show, and card game.

[@endlesswaffles6504]

The only "WOW Killer" is Blizzard, as we can see with the dropping player counts.

[@HohenEU]

the people who left wow are low skilled pve dungeon players who cry about everything; people who still play are high mythic players and pvp players of any kind

[@readifdumb]

@@HohenEU So low skilled pve dungeon players are irellevant to the games continued growth and appeal as a "MASSIVELY"MORPG. WoW has been appealing to casuals for ages now, yet you have the balls to say this lol.

[@crimsondaoist798]

wow is literally built for the unskilled lol

[@stanhry]

Minecraft , it is not mmorpg . But for open world survival it is huge. It is beloved by its fans. It is easy to mod. Their is a server that is a mmorpg, FPS, puzzle games, point and click adventure. Plus many more. It has many imitators. A Block games.

[@readifdumb]

@ MMORPGs are gaining players in general, while some of the giants remain consistent. While old failed MMORPGs wither out, people are collapsing onto the giants of the genre and it’s sustaining the MMORPG scene in general. OSRS content wise is the best we’ve seen, and it’s a successful recreation and continuation of the game people loved back then is winning loads of people over. WoW Shadowlands seems to be doing a lot better than BFA, and the level squish and revamp to character creation seems to be getting a lot of people (me included) back into WoW or even people who are completely new to the game into it. FFXIV is doing amazing, I’m personally waiting for OCE servers. Honestly, while it is not in the childhood and inception of the genre where MMORPGs had huge success, the genre seems to be a lot more applicable day by day, and with New World and Ashes of Creation coming I can’t wait to see what happens. Genuinely an exciting new era.

[@witchdoctorwill1796]

Me: "American Football, or Football everywhere else in the world?" Josh: "Yes."

[@chrismanuel9768]

They're both football. He didn't say "Association Rules" or "American Rules". Both brands are full of fanatical psychopaths.

[@brago.gameplays]

Well, he mentioned Fifa and 90 minutes, but the editor said: nah, 'murica

[@Sniperbear13]

i mean to be fair, its relevant to both.

[@liammozz]

@@Sniperbear13 it's not one is world wide the other is murica

[@AK-og6hn]

Both are equally boring for people who don't like watching ball games.

[@ismailAx2011]

The only thing that will kill it is developers continuing to make poor decisions.

[@1un4cy]

like The Culling Shadowlands is shaping up very nice, actually anticipating what they'll bring to us in the content updates.

[@NeurosisOsmosis]

see star wars, it doesn't matter, wow will never die

[@HohenEU]

@@1un4cy in The Culling they announced that no further updates will follow, that was what killed it

[@johnmaco]

Even though the game turns to be the worst MMORPG in the world in terms of gameplay, there will always be loyal players who will play it. If you want to kill WoW, it's the producers who have to make poor decisions, like making it heavy p2w for example.

[@marlonyo]

A metorite falling on the main office allways work. Same for an actual ww3.

[@vindurza]

Well this certainly aged interestingly

[@NateTheScot]

Watching this now as WoW is a burning hindenberg crashing into the ground and exploding as flaming people stagger out of the wreckage... the absolute bullshit of domination sockets - "ThEy'Re ExAcTlY tHe SaMe aS TiEr SeTs, pLaYeRs ArE JuSt ToXiC" - was the last straw for many people. The broken promise of "no more random parasitic systems we're adding as bandaids without testing them or thinking about them at all"... I don't think i've seen Preach that genuinely angry since *that* drama time story many, many years ago.

[@DBExplorer]

@@NateTheScot WoW killed WoW

[@pzzazza4204]

@@DBExplorer Wow

[@ignispurgatorius5297]

The issue is WoW is still not dead. And it won't be for the forseeable future. Even if they have dipped below 2 million subs or even below 1 million, that is still alot more than other games have that still claw along. As long as they have people playing and we all bumrush back whenever a new expansion releases this won't change. It's just the high points getting higher and the low points getting lower. I think the idea of the video tells this rather succinctly, wow is more than just a game and the player behavior proves that. But alot of monogamers have finally woken up and realized there are other games out there, that alone is a major victory in my book.

[@feo130]

@@ignispurgatorius5297 The game is alive and well. People are too far up their own asses.

[@erikcooper324]

Guild is still going strong and raiding 3 times a week for 10 years now. They're family at this point.

[@nonusbusinissus5632]

grats on being the 0.1 percent

[@shionkreth7536]

Living the dream.

[@Dualities]

Blizard forum sux because if you are from EU you can't post on NA/US forums.

[@erikcooper324]

@Sparks Ha! Big true

[@bofasofa9399]

millions of people seem to not understand that millions more play this game for pvp and not for raiding or dungeons, while high level pvp is only 2-5% of the entire pvp population. the point is a lot of people don't care about raiding or guilds at all.

[@dylanalcarese968]

I'd love a deeper dive into how WoW got to this level of relevance. Great video ss always!

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Thats actually planned as a video soon :)

[@Laenthis]

@@JoshStrifeHayes Hi dude, if you do please do mention a very under rated aspect of the game : the story. As a long time WoW player it's the universe that hooked me in and will do that even should the game become bad (which I do not think it is, BFA was a low point but well, the game is old and when you try things all the time you are bound to have a few fails) I will sub and buy expansion until the very last one. Azeroth feels more like home than absolutely any other universe I saw.

[@strider8662]

@@Laenthis I mean I really cant say Wow's strong point is its story. When you think about it wow has a extremely simple story with 0 consistency between each lore. Story isnt interesting at all, it just feels cool because of how well its presented. But of course thats also a strong point, less you think about wow's lore better the world feels.

[@pixadavid]

It's funny that in the narration you're clearly talking about European football (kick abouts in the Park... Pub after the game...) whilst you're showing American football. Guess you must have a mostly American audience!

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

I do! I also discovered that footage of european football was good, but the american football takes the tribal / cult mentality to the next level.

[@BlueSparxLPs]

@@JoshStrifeHayes That's very interesting to me. I've always known that people take sports waaaaay too seriously in the US, but I've always heard that it's an even bigger deal in most parts of Europe. Could just be one of those myths that I've never had debunked, though.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

@@BlueSparxLPs in england at least, football is less 'spectacle and show' and more 'drinking and violence'.

[@BlueSparxLPs]

@@JoshStrifeHayes The severity of drinking and violence related to sports could definitely be where the perception comes from, now that you mention it. I will say, though, the way that parents scream over the field at their kids for making mistakes in child and high school events in the US echos that well too.

[@kopicat2429]

@@BlueSparxLPs People screaming at children for mistakes in sport happens in Europe too :) A lot. Remember when i was a little kid, around 9 even our Coach was asked to actually leave because he was screaming at us on the field too much xD And a few parents too. Football, or soccer(your choice). But i do think Americans take certain traditions and cult-like behaviour a bit farther then Europe does. Would actually love to experience it sometime. Closest i've come to what happened on screen would be hockey matches where the whole audience start singing, litterally singing, insults towards the other team.

[@mrgameoz]

when he said football i didnt expect him to show hand egg sport

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

American football footage is much more cult like

[@mememachinebacon790]

@@JoshStrifeHayes Depends where you are from.

[@maikawasumi1256]

@@JoshStrifeHayes In Germany Soccer has similar... Cult Feeling. Research it, it is nearly as terrifying as in England :D

[@tamsel814]

I was mainly listening and not watching the video as much. Took me way to long to realise he was taking about American football...

[@kumbertjoehl-lee8898]

I was really confused which he actually ment because he came up with FIFA ^^'.

[@LikaLaruku]

Pokemon was definitely a video game before it was a card game.

[@bjornfollin5056]

Side note: Pokémon didn't start as a card game (nor as an anime).

[@Trisander]

How was it then?

[@Lazt]

@@Trisander as a game. Red & green in Japan, red & blue in America 1 yr later.

[@Trisander]

@@Lazt thats the thing the video games are card games or at least is how i and many other people view them.

[@Lazt]

@@Trisander ah, I see the point your making. Fair enough. They do have similar starting pointz & a lot of the same base gameplay mechanicz.

[@bjornfollin5056]

@@Trisander The video games are not like card games

[@krismoose124]

cant believe you didnt mention the memes like Leeroy Jenkins and songs like Dont Make Me Get My Main

[@Awful.Productions]

MAKE ME GET MY MAAAAAAAAIN

[@hopwiesel]

big blue dress

[@paddington1670]

MORE DOTS MORE DOTS

[@snuketime]

I feel like getting my main is more of a runescape reference

[@DustyTheKitty]

ARCANITE REAPER, HO!

[@GrippeeTV]

People are invested in the game. Some have been playing it for more than a decade - it’s like making the decision to move out of your hometown at that point. They have friends, may have met their wife or husband, unforgettable moments - that’s why you’ll never kill it.

[@jeanhamilton3296]

No one but themselves can kill it which's why the permanent losses of subscribers have only been seen after new expansions and not new competitors coming on the market.

[@zeriel9148]

That clearly only applies to a tiny minority of players. There were more former WoW players than active WoW players in WOTLK, and that was AGES ago. Now that gap is exponentially larger, it's more like 90% former to 10% now, or even less in terms of active players.

[@zeriel9148]

@ Yep. And I'm definitely one of them. They drove me away with their mechanic changes, not because I was just bored with the game as it was back then. That being said I think free to play basically guarantees the game will stay afloat until they release a new MMO, with the Blizzard name and its prominence they will probably always be able to hold onto enough players to pay the bills. I do think it's a very negative trend though, when you look at stuff like Classic seeming to be more popular than their new expansions. That's a huge condemnation of their efforts. And I think they were cognizant of that--they resisted doing Classic for so long, and when they did do it you could sense the resentment from their "new" developers.

[@gabbyb9418]

Yep I've been in it for 14 yrs, idk how it has still held my attention this long as no other game has but it probably mostly has to do with friends & nostalgia. I started at 12 & ill go back to shadowglen or other places for fun sometimes just to hang out in the area & look around again. I remember getting lost in the spider cave for like an hour when I first started haha.

[@gabbyb9418]

@@zeriel9148 shadowlands has actually been immensely popular. After WoD they got us back with Legion, then they lost us again in BfA, now they have us back mostly (loot rng issues aside) with Shadowlands. Im having a great time in retail. Im excited for classic TBC & WotLK servers to come out too. I love every version of the game except WoD & BfA tbh. Even in those expansions I kept playing. I got burnt out easier, maybe didn't raid as much, but I still enjoyed it casually. You'd be surprised how much more complicated its gotten. Now with classic, sub price, & the cash shop, its hard to know exactly what is making them the most money. All I know is they don't go off sub numbers anymore for a reason (although it is an important metric for popularity still) & their revenue has been split a lot of different ways. I definitely agree that the new developers are a bit salty that so many people prefer classic, but now that we have an official classic, people won't be pushing for classic-like gameplay & mechanics in retail anymore. Now if you want classic gameplay, you go play classic. Theyve freed themselves up to change anything they want because they can just put out legacy servers of each version of the game so everyone is happy. Im glad they're given more freedom to change things up. Its implied that Azeroth will be completely changed by the time we get back from the Shadowlanda, kinda teasing a Cataclysm 2.0. It would be version 10.0 or the 9th expansion so it seems appropriate. Hoping for some real uniqueness & change to come into retail. It kinda needs another reboot.

[@callukcraft]

as a wow player who own lots side material and read the books as well can confirm that your right , also yes in spite of everything im still coming back in fact classic is reason i came back after a long break .

[@severithsfavs]

JSH "You can't kill WoW" J. Allen Brack "You think you can't, but I am."

[@xkall5391]

fucking brilliant

[@wolfsruhm]

i agree that WoW can only be killed by the stupidity of the guys charge, not the developers, the guys in charge

[@smward87]

@@wolfsruhm Turns out it was both. The actual developers were too busy getting drunk, doing coke in the bathrooms, and sexually harassing their female co-workers into suicide instead of working on the game. The guys in charge meanwhile knew about it and did nothing.

[@Freestyle80]

man the comment section is desperate to kill it off, its like WoW has offended you personally

[@Opnn8d1]

Ever since WoW first launched, every MMO to be announced has been proclaimed as "The WoW Killer" and hyped to hell, then it launches to a mediocre reception at best, and outright disappointment at worst. One of the things which established WoW's solidarity was how easily accessible it was. As well as I can remember, it was the first MMO that the developers encouraged the sharing of the installation discs with others, so a subscribers friends can try it out while all playing together. This laid the foundation for a strong since of community for players and their inner circle of friends. So the growth of the playerbase was phenomenal in a short period of time. There was plenty of content for all playstyles, and Blizzard managed to keep that content coming. While some expansions were not as well received as others, there is no denying that Blizzard was running things the right way to drive subscription numbers. And even now, after so many years, the player base is still solid enough that the game will not be going anywhere for a while. Now one day, WoW will die. but it will not be some other MMO that will kill it. Corporate decisions on the part of Activision/Blizzard are already generating a lot of negative responses, and the suits are doubling down more often than not. Piss enough people off, and they will leave in droves, and even WoW will sink to mediocrity. Other MMOs will come after, but they will not have killed WoW. They won'teven achieve success anywhere near where WoW was at its height. They will just be alternative games for people to play because they are fed up with corporate publisher BS running the game they once loved into the ground on the basis of attitude alone..

[@jordanread5829]

Simple and easy to understand mechanics is a stable of Blizzards core game design. Which they said as much in their LFG documentary. It is why Starcraft massively outdid Command and Conquer in the RTS market. To the point that Starcraft basically turned E-sports into what it is today. Like the only real consequences for dying in WoW has always been a loss in equipment durability and a run back. No loss of items, resources (other than gold via repair costs), experience etc. Just a fee (repair cost) and a run back to the corpse. You can even skip the run back for an additional repair cost and up to 10 minutes of having your stats reduced if you feel the run back is too much.

[@Opnn8d1]

@@jordanread5829 This is a good observation. I don't mind complexity in MMOs that allows players who desire deeper involvement to get into deeper mechanics that are built upon the simple execution thereof. But I have seen some MMOs that are so convoluted in their execution of complex elements that people just don't want to bother. Complex does not have to mean complicated. Take Star Citizen for example. Now for a moment, set aside the usual vitriol about how long the game is taking. That's a topic for an entirely different discussion. It is the single most ambitious MMO ever undertaken by anyone, with massive complexities running its mechanics. But players create a character that is 100% viable form the moment they first log in. There's no long, drawn out leveling or specialization advancement process. Earning in-game currency is the focus of the "grind" and there are different choices on how to do this. Advancement is based on what equipment you've bought and what ship you fly. And anyone can get the best of these things by just playing. CIG's player experience philosophy seems to be, "Here's the game world. Now Go in there and be what you want and do what you want. Those who play regularly mostly find this approach to be very liberating. I've longed for an MMO that does this. No levels. No classes. Just a world with rules that facilitate different choices I may make. I used SC as an example because it actually does this. But any MMO can potentially do the same thing without having to take nearly as long because of other reasons. Star Wars Galaxies, when it first came out, while it DID gate a character's effectiveness by requiring a grind to advance through the skill tiers, the fact that you could mix and match up to 3 and 1/2 professions worth of skills meant that you could dabble in just about everything and actually contribute. Even a novice marksman straight out of character generation could contribute to a firefight alongside a master pistoleer. The novice marksman could hang back and keep dealing minor ranged damage while the pistoleer engaged more damaging shots at closer ranges. And if he had also taken brawler skills, if the enemy managed to close to Melee range, one or two hits would drop it I took both brawler and marksman, had a rifle, a carbine a pistol and a combat knife hotkeyed. I'd start out prone to increase my rifle range a bit and give myself one or two surprise shots. As the enemy began charging, I'd switch to kneeling to keep max range optimal and continue sniping. Then it went to standing for the rest of the Rifle's effective range. Then I switched to the carbine, maintaining effective damage ad medium range. Then it was my pistol at close range. Many times, I dropped the enemy just before he entered Melee range, but if I didn't, the knife came out and finished it off, dropping it at my feet. But my character's career was that of a hunter/gatherer, not a combatant. But the brawler and marksman skills allowed me to hunt creatures for organic resources efficiently, softening up the sturdier ones at a distance and just finishing them off when they got close. It kept me out of danger zones. The original combat system was complex, but with the different stances and skills and weapons easily hotkeyed, they could be achieved easily. TLDR: The simpler the player facing mechanics are, regardless of the behind-the-scenes complexity, the better the experience.

[@Scruffi]

My WoW guild just celebrated its 15 year anniversary last September. Social culture and familiarity is a powerful meta ]:)

[@mimzityy86]

AWESOME VIDEO, I ll literally show your video every time someone argues with me. So nicely thought ideas and good explanation! More people should be like you

[@NumidiaWoW]

You really make some amazing content keep it up I hope to see you grow !

[@NagaTales]

Storytime: I personally quit the cult of WoW in late Cataclysm/early Mists of Pandaria following some changes to gearing that raised a lot of red flags for me. In retrospect, it was a good call, but at the time I remember feeling... adrift. I hadn't quite gotten to the fanaticism that would have made me stick to it 'no matter what', but even now, years and years later, I still follow the events of the game... though with increasing disappointment and frustration. When asked, I'll still proudly claim to be a ride-or-die member of the Horde back when I played. But having left the 'cult', I was now on my own and seeking a replacement. I spent years hopping between F2P and Buy-to-Play MMOs like GW2, Neverwinter, Wildstar, Blade&Soul, TERRA, ESO, SWtOR, and just about every other MMO title that was playable in the West between 2012 and 2016, with the notable exception of FFXIV, which flew completely under my radar until 2017. I had become an MMO Nomad, and the temptation to return to the cult was always there. So I returned. For maybe a month at the start of each new expansion. But each time I returned, the reasons for my original disillusionment weren't gone, and to my dismay, were growing worse. Climbing to the new level cap was enjoyable, but pushing much further than that meant engaging with the systems that drove me away in the first place. And so I left again. And again. Each time I poked my nose back into the cult, I saw the problems getting worse, my desire to return weakened, and I came to prefer my existence as a F2P Nomad over returning. Then in 2017, I discovered FFXIV for the first time. At this point, I had only ever played two FF games: FF8 back on the PS1, and FF13 on the XB360, so the brand, while recognizable, wasn't the selling point. I knew enough about FF to know the story would be original, so I could start with a clean slate and no expectations. Four years and nearly ten-thousand hours later, I have found myself more stuck-in to FFXIV than I ever was with WoW. It avoided, and continues to avoid, the problems that pushed me away from WoW, and while it is certainly not flawless by any stretch, its flaws do not impede my personal enjoyment the way WoW's did, and some of its perceived flaws are actually advantageous when viewed from certain approach. I have always espoused the idea that the only thing that can kill World of Warcraft is World of Warcraft itself; or, more specifically, Activision Blizzard's management of the game and brand. This was my experience when I left, and the uptick in "WoW Refugees" appearing in other MMOs lately seems to only reinforce that assertion.

[@tminusfivetwu]

I just recently renewed my sub since walking away in 2016. That came after playing since 2005. This video just hyped me up big time! Thank you!!

[@EdBurke37]

"Imagine someone saying they would make a better sport than football and therefore be more popular than football." [Stares at Vince Mcmahon]

[@leonamoonslasher7070]

Do WWE is still popular?

[@calumennis4529]

@@leonamoonslasher7070 they're currently hiting their lowest TV ratings in history every week pretty much. But WWE is now ironically more profitable than its ever been in its near 60 years of running, like wow, wwe has ingrained itself in culture, it will never truly die

[@smward87]

@@leonamoonslasher7070 Not WWE, the XFL, or Xtreme Football League. Vince McMahon was quite literally trying to re-invent Football.

[@Donnerjkks]

Personally the game started feeling empty despite being populated. I mean, I was in a guild but it was rare that chat was active. The world felt like an empty lobby room for dungeon queues. I realized that I don't so much like the game as I liked my life back when it launched.

[@kousei4999]

Great video bro, As always, quality content.

[@jordancoronado1824]

I have never played WoW - I started playing MMO with Runescape, and still play OSRS till this day. I agree 100% with the analysis on this video, WoW is much bigger than a game, I watch their content creators even if I do not know what the hell is going on lmao.. It's very unlikely for any games to have this type of success globally - specially if they have the mentality of creating a "wow killer"

[@nicolasdemers2685]

Ya I am a Runescape player who never play WoW in my life too and I follow Asmongold on youtube lol.

[@MasterJazz09]

Same it’s quite odd I started playing RS in 2007 and still play today on rs3 and I just never tried wow I don’t know why lol I might one day.

[@MasterLPG]

*So... Equipment Rebalancing of the Blowpipe that is quite toxic, the Dragonhide coloured of the black variant and a Bulwark made by some fellow called 'Dinh', among other pleasantries here and there?* *;)*

[@ChrisZybeZ]

my original runescape account got deleted for no apparent reason.

[@gabbyb9418]

@@ChrisZybeZ that is the worst thing that could ever happen, ever

[@DutchSkeptic]

A lot of the claims made in this video seem outdated by now. The events of the second half of 2021 have overtaken it. WoW has lost half of its players, including many hard-core fans who had already grown resentment against the direction the game was going, being increasingly disappointed at the monetisation, the lack of original content, the grinding for new weapons which then get nerfed soon after release etc. The outrageous revelations about sexual harassment and gender discrimination in the workplace of Activision / Blizzard have pushed many over the line; knowing in what kind of abusive conditions the game has been developed for over a decade has, in the mind of many fans, destroyed their love for it that had already been slowly dying. That said, the WoW culture is not dead. Yet. And its legacy will live on, and it has definitely secured its place in gaming history and culture. But as an active subculture, it has been hit very hard. And any MMO can be "killed", simply by closing all its official servers forever. That won't happen to WoW soon, but let's not say it never will.

[@jari2018]

its like not expecting your new popular local pizzeria not taken over by thugs because they saw saw a means of making more money than the orginal owners by subpar service ,ingridianc - activision boutgh a formula of making money and now they are making the formula better

[@Gabriel-cg9tj]

Since 2016 wow dropped 2mill subs off 6mill… 4mill is still huge

[@anvos658]

That is kind of the exact point of the video the WoW killer can only be WoW.

[@JoeyRamone1993]

Honestly, Activision-Blizzard executives have probably done more damage to WoW than any MMO competitor.

[@KanetsidohiKanotoush]

I have played a few mmos (some were more fun than WoW), and I've played WoW just since 2014 but, hearing just a few notes of the music from zones like The Barrens, Mulgore or Frostfire Ridge, brings a strong wave nostalgia of the great moments I enjoyed there, I take breaks but I always return

[@conkerthesquirrel4331]

Awesome Video. Can be applied to so many things outside of the gaming industry too. Really made me think about how people define "best". ..Depends on the interest and objective i suppose.

[@LordEmilous]

WoW is the game which made me wake up at 8AM to play and run home after school to play... I started when it first came out and stopped playing right after WotLK and I'm glad I did.... I didn't play it after but I feel like it isn't what it used to be. Sometimes I have dreams of playing again and the dream is always awesome and super nostalgic.... Once I wake up I do realize I wouldn't be able to re-capture that magic again... I'm glad it was a part of my childhood though, even though I consider it to be a virtual heroin :P

[@Iridescence93]

Pretty accurate and also explains why all the games that tried to copy it didn't really succeed. I think WoW doesn't click with me because it wasn't my first MMO and the cultural stuff doesn't mean much to me but if it's your thing, cool. I just wish MMOs would put more effort into trying to innovate instead of just copying what is popular.

[@factionguy]

A lot of MMOS tried to innovate but died or couldn't even get to release. Look at all the indie Kickstarter games trying to be unique and different. Most are stuck in development hell or ended up scamming players for millions of dollars.

[@Iridescence93]

@@factionguy Yeah I wasted hundreds of bucks on a couple of those KS games. I think the issue is that the people with the money to make an MMO that can launch solidly don't want to take any risks and the people with the good ideas and willing to take risks don't have the money required (KS is not enough) so it's kind of a paradox in MMO development right now. Probably have to hope costs come down so we get some good new games again.

[@kennyhouser3467]

The problem is that many MMOs, especially after the initial boom tried to out WoW WoW. That's never gonna happen. If another MMO is ever to take the throne they'll have to be 75% original and innovative ideas and 25% of what WoW does well. Blizzard Activision have the WoW formula down pat so making a clone is not gonna do the trick. There would also have to be a recognizable brand attached and new ideas. A Star Wars, D&D, whatever else skin over a WoW clone has failed too many times already. I also think that Blizzard could kill it too with a different one of their IPs. I've always brainstormed ideas for something like a "World of Starcraft."

[@midgetydeath]

The copycats fail because players have little reason to care if it’s basically a WOW expansion. Some like RIFT offered something arguably better but fell apart due to the devs being morons and a lack of scale and epic story telling that Warcraft has in spades.

[@Iridescence93]

@@midgetydeath Yeah I liked the class system in Rift but other than that it was basically WoW with improved graphics so I became bored with it quickly (and I assume the players who like WoW gameplay just went back to WoW)

[@kennethvannorwick3557]

Thanks for this video. It really puts this game into perspective. I have played for years, and I agree with you that it is the community that I love. It is the friends I have made that keep me coming back. The game fluctuates over time, but the connections I have made are what makes MMOs different. Toxic or effectively absent communities ruin games, and communities that are engaged and care can make games last for a long time. I think WOW is fundamentally different than other games, and while I agree that another game cannot kill it, I do think it can be killed through complacency. My hope is that the devs, now freed or at least, in the process of being freed, from a toxic and abusive work environment, can begin to make the game we know they are capable of making.

[@chrisbenn]

Dude! When I saw you had and mentioned Asheron's Call in your video I just Subscribed right away! I played that game every day for years on the PvP server! Darktides! Best game and PvP ever! :-D :-)

[@user-op7vr5xc4z]

“How can you kill that which has no life?”

[@Thessalin]

This could be the end of the world!!! ... ... of warcraft.

[@TheDragonboy91]

@Jonathan Soko ask him if he also thinks its deep, not everyone watched south park, including you

[@WeiWei.88]

Some love fishing Some dont GGWP

[@daviddaniel6949]

One of my fave WOW videos of all time is the funeral raid. The way the guy edited Scatman into the raid was hilarious. People were so naive back then in terms of thinking nobody would troll the funeral.

[@stefanshin8098]

Its in a weird spot, the game is moving towards gameplay that doesnt promote interaction which is what made it into what it is today. I'm always going to be a fan because back in 2007 I met around 20+people near me who play the game and we all gathered and threw a BBQ. Ever since that we've been in contact and stayed friends.

[@theconspicuousmoo8668]

Excellent video sir! And yeah I'm still hanging about because of the people I play with (and because gnomes are awesome).

[@N3trunner_]

Excelent video. I've been playing wow since 2006 and never left!

[@Gakusangi]

You're right, you cannot KILL WoW... but it can still die.

[@daneparchmentjr]

My response to when someone brings up why WoW can't be killed or why this game should kill Wow is: Why does Wow need to be killed? Why can't we all just enjoy multiple things? This is obviously from the player perspective. As a developer I can understand wanting to create a product better than another one, and from a business perspective it makes total sense. But players wanting another game to die just so that they can call their favorite the best is way beyond me.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

I agree. Multiple good things can exist together.

[@jonathansoko1085]

Nope, final fantasy players HAVE to hate wow, its a part of the TOS

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

@@jonathansoko1085 sounds true.

[@daneparchmentjr]

@@jonathansoko1085 Well shoot this is why you need to read the TOS. I hate Wow now.

[@Swordart2022]

@@jonathansoko1085 lol

[@spahghettiboi4150]

Congrats on hitting 24 k man!

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Cheerd Ted :)

[@schenanigans]

I met my boyfriend on classic wow, some of my best friends, I’ve felt such incredible pride through my character and I’ve cried over it and the people I’ve met - I’ve attended a funeral in Loch Modan for a friend I never met it’s genuinely a full world and almost once a day I play I just scan the camera around and am amazed by how fleshed out and genuine the world is, how I knew everyone on my small server WoW really can’t be killed, nothing has ever matched it in my heart and I’ve played since vanilla

[@firesighnavatar3283]

whenever I decide I want to try MMOs again I inevitably gravitate back to WoW because no other game has a class that can tame such a wide variety of animal companions. when I was playing more hardcore, I had to have multiple hunters for all of the damn pets I wanted. I haven't played in years, but I occasionally get pangs because those characters mean so much to me. I might be playing a completely different game and wish I could be playing it as my belf hunter or my nelf druid. I miss them a lot. but I miss THEM, I've come to realize, not so much the game.

[@Christian_Bagger]

The only thing that can kill wow is Activision.

[@1un4cy]

That's the route it was going during BFA but they pulled back and made Shadowlands better.

[@Christian_Bagger]

@@1un4cy Since Activision and Blizzard merged, the game suffered immensely. Beforehand the game was at its peak and there were no signs that the trajectory wouldn't continue, but then you felt the first effect with the group finder, and after that it just snowballed. For so many years it has been about fixing problems that they have created, and gone more in the direction of "you are the chosen one", and reminds more and more of a single player game with npcs around you. The game has right about the same amount of subs than what they did. The game could have been so much better, if they had full creative control... but that is something that usually goes when two companies merges. The one will eat the other. If people like it, great! It will just never be for me again unfortunately.. the living, breathing mysterious world that is kind of unforgiving where your reputation mattered, a sense of scarcity, that things I like... I guess eve online would be a great mmo for me, but sci-fi ain't for me... Heard good things about Shadowlands, it's good to hear, though.

[@F14thunderhawk]

@@Christian_Bagger Cataclysm being terrible had very little to do with Activision though. they just kicked blizzard in the pants about half a year early for the story, which was still primarily handled by Metzen at the time. Cataclysm had stratified layers of design issues that came from trying to fix the developmental evolution WoW had gone through from Vanilla to Wrath, and it failed. it failed so hard that Blizzard literally threw out the entire design of character progression for the next expansion. Its obvious that Talent Trees were a design problem from the beginning, and that the 6 then 7 tiers of 3 perks were going to come along as an absolute certainty, but it would take another 8 years for blizzard to finally accept the inevitable reality of their fundamental core financial-development-progression issue. The Levelcap gets incremented each time so that players dont have to suffer from "Cant Keep Up" and with SL blizzard finally made it so that the core problem of an ever increasing level plateau doesnt happen. Now, the most significant issues of WoW arent resolved in terms of a game health thing. the Community is damaged even further then what cataclysm ever committed with Legion's M+. Ion's theory of player engagement is pretty much the antithesis of what players actually want out of long form design. Meanwhile the ranting during WoD of there being nothing to do got so loud that Bobby Kottik finally heard it and ordered the creation of Classic, despite the fact that as is demonstrable, no one actually liked vanilla and it was a horrible idea because Vanilla is the game at its actual worst state. After All, theres a reason why WOW: TBC is the largest single patch WoW has ever had, and the only expansion that would as critically rework how classes worked as TBC did would be Wrath itself.

[@Xanthelei]

@@F14thunderhawk I'm curious how Shadowlands fixed the level cap issue in your mind. I've played enough to get my original main to cap and realize that yet again, there's nothing for me to do at max level without an active guild and all active guilds on my server are either styling themselves as hardcore raiders or are PVP-centered, so I haven't gotten to see some of the end-game mechanics I'm sure. It would be nice if they did fix that issue, since power creep is a big one and that would let them focus on fixing other "design choices" they've made. I'm guessing it's related to the "stat squish" they did? I will say that while TBC definitely drastically altered the classes and how they play, Wrath didn't do nearly as much to alter them as Cata and Legion did. Cata made changes in basic resources, such as giving Paladins Holy Power and changing Hunters from Mana to Focus (aka Energy), and Legion changed an entire ranged spec to melee. These are not insignificant changes, and I would argue that changes made in TBC to make classes more viable in their roles barely come close (Feral Druids probably do, but even then the actual split between Cat and Bear form didn't come until Mists, and that arguably is the biggest change for the class overall). A lot of class changes have been spread out over the years, but I would still argue Cata was the biggest revamp, not Wrath, because of specific changes made to the foundations of how some classes worked, with Mists being a close second based on the removal of talent trees entirely. TBC was a (needed) massive balancing patch, to be sure, but not a foundational change on the same scale.

[@Freestyle80]

@@Christian_Bagger do you understand game development? You cant fking change how an expansion is halfway through the cycle, CATACLYCM was being developed long Activision came so stop with your stupid excuse of 'iTs aLl aCtIvIsIoNs fAuLt' seriously you people cant form a coherent sentence and just resort to a child's argument 'its his fault!' why?

[@daesdemona6173]

Even though I don't play much wow anymore, back in the days I have made some of the best and closest friends thanks to that game. After more than 13 years I still love it and occasionally play it again. I just subscribed to your channel and I really love it, you explain very clever points of view

[@vyrnius]

12:12 holy shit... compared to today that patreon list really grow big in only 11 months! I mean ofc he deserves this support since he is an outstanding youtuber ^^

[@SetzarothTV]

I've tried to tell people this for years. Glad I now have a concise video to send them now when this argument starts.

[@bohd3]

WoW has literally saved my marriage as my wife and I have been playing together since we got together and although we have rather little in common we both love our kids and we love WoW so we always have something to talk about and work together for.

[@ashleyrichards9339]

Quality content mate!

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Cheers Ashley :)

[@melvoid01]

I have been playing WoW since 2009 and I have a six month sub atmo, but I very rarely play it I LOVE FFIV these days but I don't nolife it like I used to WoW. Point is I have gotten older and other things take up my time, but I find I can't not have that button available in my launcher, so I can pop back in whenever I feel the urge, so yes the feels is reals nostalgia and for me seeing the story continue will keep me invested, and I would like to bet I am not unusual in that.

[@BalefulStar]

Having tried most of "wow killers" I disagree, the seldom mentioned difference of wow is solid engineering behind the scenes, clear goals, mechanics that make sense, math is pretty transparent and your effectiveness can be objectively measured and compared. In the so called hardcore pre-wow MMO's your prosperity was largely a function of hours spent, creating negative selection for those who made it to the top, while many wow killers copied it's aspects in form without creating systems in wich it all works together, creating sort of cargo cult game. Only the session based MMO achieved it's level of clarity and consistency and only those will eventually kill it for good.

[@lucasmller7187]

This is really a fun video to watch in 2022, after the Blizzard controversy. Because while it's true that it dealt a massive blow to the player base, it did somehow manage to sorta recover again. It dipped from 6M to 4M, back up to 5M, then 4M, and now - the stats for this month - it's back up to 5,9M. I myself still play retail wow, even if it's far from the best MMO out there, just because it still holds up as a game where you can create your own fun in a ridiculously fleshed-out and beautiful world. I think a lot of players share that sentiment. I hope Blizzard succeeds with the next expansion, and shows the community that they're not just going to kill their own game- because while they are clearly able to recover fairly well for now, that wont last forever. You can only survive a 2M - 3M drop so many times, even if you are a historical gaming legend.

[@thegombie]

Yeah it's still the king of all MMOs if you combine retail + classic player numbers. I don't see it dying anytime soon, it's more of a lifestyle than a game for them.

[@mohdAkeed]

This video makes me subscribe to this channel, on point explanation and the most logic..I'm an ESO player btw

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Welcome to the channel :)

[@cydneyjahnke7430]

What’s going on just stumbled upon you last night and your passion for mmos kinda got me hooked on your channel. Been watching your vids non stop since. You should do a vid on another stagnant game called last chaos. It was my first for the genre and it’s what got me hooked chasing the feeling of not a good game but the good time. As well the game had the beautiful aspect of sp farming which made the grind rewarding and you could tell who stopped and did the grind or just boosted to lvl cap. Just a suggestion appreciate the great videos and honest but unbiased and educated reviews of these wonderful games.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Welcome to the channel Cydney :) Last chaos is on the list to play :)

[@kimsonrobinson3171]

1:00 "Now I'm not saying you can't make a better game." Starts playing FFXIV.

[@chrismanuel9768]

FF14 isn't good though. It's super grindy, the quests are boring, and I've personally never once "had fun" with the combat system. Guild Wars 2 is a much more fun game with better combat, better quests, a better world, and better mythology.

[@kimsonrobinson3171]

@@chrismanuel9768 Okay... that's like your opinion though. Maybe the classic MMO combat style the evolved from OG top down strategy games doesn't appeal to you. Fact of the matter is though FF14 is still one of the biggest MMO's out there. Always has and still is bigger then Guild Wars. You can't just dismiss something's quality and showmanship purely because it doesn't appeal to you. I may not give a damn about Virtual Card games, including GWENT, yes. Doesn't I can't perceive or understand why people would. Oh and you can't use the "Well it's a legacy franchise Final Fantasy, of course it's bigger." When 11 exist and Guild Wars has been and probably will stay bigger then that game ever was. Simply put more people like 14 because it's 14... not Final Fantasy.

[@ItsapaulGaming]

Which is weird since 14 is objectively worse

[@crimsonclaymore1395]

@@ItsapaulGaming Is objectively better, the only thing weird here is your comment. There is no discussion FFXIV > WoW. The only thing FFXIV does bad is the PvP, but it's even better than WoW in that too. PvE is the best of all MMOs nowdays, your like it or not

[@kimsonrobinson3171]

@@Kednems See, I don't think most of you are understanding the point of the comment. The combat style might not be necessarily for "you" but as a in general game, FF14 compared to WOW specifically, trumps that game in almost every way, including combat.

[@JJLL195]

WoW be like: You can’t kill me! I kill me!

[@nervsouly]

WoW was my first MMO. At first I could not move anymore as soon as I reached Goldshire. I then learned one needs a graphic card to run this game, onboard won't do. That's how ancient this game is. Being on a student budget, I just purchased a cheap one (boy was I lucky that thing fit the slots cuz I had no idea what I was doing) and it was enough to run the game on low resolution excluding dungeons for more than 10 players at once. I remember I had a really thick guide book for it, picked up at the local Media Market. It explained in detail many things every gamer nowadays already knows, such as roles, how to judge if a guild is worth it, what to not do if you don't want to come across as rude and so much more. That's what this game did: Draw in an incredible amount of people who had never gotten in touch with online gaming before. And yes, despite my guide book I still didn't realize a warrior has to go in first and draw aggro from monsters. People taught me how in my first Deathmines run. :P

[@axey7476]

Been with my guild over 5yrs now as we started out as a GW2 pvp guild then played on Classic private servers and now live Classic and TBC soon so yeah it's deff the community and friendships that keep me playing :)

[@curtis8197]

as someone who has played wow for 16 years, it's also time investment any other game i try (apart from OSRS) all i have in the back of my mind the entire time is " well, i don't really wanna commit to another franchise in this genre"

[@chrismanuel9768]

Sunk Cost. "I spent so much time on this, it would be a waste if I stopped". The value was in what you got out of it. You owe Blizzard nothing. You can spend your time elsewhere and be happier.

[@Freestyle80]

@@chrismanuel9768 you can also spend your time not hating on a game online and be happier :) why do you brag about not liking a game?

[@majormom357]

I can't play other mmos because I've invested so much time into my account. I've spent 11 years playing this game, the friends I've met have become permanent. Wow is like mommas cooking, sure the restaurant tastes great but nothing beats mommas meals

[@divinecomedian2]

Damn that's depressing. I'd be pissed if my mom's cooking progressively got worse.

[@majormom357]

@@divinecomedian2 man I sure am pissed, I’ve been unsubbed for a few months now. It’s sad to look back on this comment from 2 years ago

[@callukcraft]

also new to your channel will be watching lots more stuff , love mmo's been playing them for years , although my main 2 are wow and Star trek online.

[@chrismanuel9768]

Try Guild Wars 2. Buy to play, no monthly sub, supported entirely by cosmetics. Very fair, very free, very fun. Love the combat system, love the flexibility, love the classes.

[@callukcraft]

​@@chrismanuel9768I or ready own it , not played it in long time though and yea it is very fun, maybe I should get back into though given the current state of wow, although i also really wont to complete guild wars one that i played when it was current.

[@callukcraft]

@@chrismanuel9768 I mainly did pvp. but thanks for the recommendation anyway.

[@ArkadeVega]

You do an AMAIZING job mate. I like your brain, even tho i don't agree with everything you say, the way u present ur ideas is just on another level

[@Bubblesofbliss1904]

Josh Strife Hayes: Football. Shows American "Football".

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Hand egg.

[@erejnion]

Well, the analysis is pretty much spot-on for football, just the footage is incorrect. Football is indeed the most popular sport in the world.

[@jamesbaggett3655]

Soccer

[@lowelovibes8035]

The community can survive without the game, just as the communities born of books or movies survive.

[@chestbuster1987]

I was never a hardcore player but every few years I do get an itch to play a bit of WoW, even if on a private server. Learning a new MMO can be daunting but WoW is always familiar and relaxing.

[@fireflyry]

Just stumbled on to your content, as KZbin does, and instant sub for me. You remind me of LazyPeon but a fantastic new flavor and really crack up commentary. I would ask you put your Worst MMO Ever content into a playlist but.....that's me being a lazy cunt wanting to binge but, sir.....it's REALLY hard to find good content on KZbin these days and yours is FANTASTIC. I look forward to supporting you and seeing other gamers and MMORPG fans finding your channel. Most happy to advocate. Cheers.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Thanks man, welcome :) The worst mmo ever already is a complete playlist :)

[@skyesfury8511]

I'm glad you qualified the yardstick with "during WotLK". Because midway through Wrath, Activision took over and it shows. The quality started going down, and it's only sped up in its decline the longer Activision is running the show.

[@wolfekupo5651]

an interesting thing is WoW's biggest point was the start of Cataclysm (where it did rapidly fall off)

[@jamesbaggett3655]

The merger was actually before wrath launched.

[@stevenglowacki8576]

@@jamesbaggett3655 I think the "midway through Wrath" was more of a reference to its development cycle. If the merger occurred late in Wrath develop, Activision didn't have enough time to muck around with things before they were released, but did manage to get a change in philosophy for the future development of the game instilled, which started with the group finder.

[@Freestyle80]

is that why during BFA it started getting over 200k views in twitch during community events?

[@yami6138]

Hey Josh Great video as always ! I saw something strange today on Facebook.... an ad of a game called perfect world mobile for mobile and it was a sponsored video and they put a clip of you as a commentor saying positive things... pretty sure it was taken from 1 of your videos. Just saying if you wanna do anything about it cuz thats just straight up false advertaisment.

[@Fogmeister]

Also, your analogy with football is a great one. I'm an app developer and one of the most suggested types of apps I get told by friends/colleagues/TBH everyone who knows I develop apps is... "I had this idea for a social networking app" or "I had an idea for an app where people can sell . Like Ebay but where there aren't massive fees to sell stuff" Like... good. Sounds like a decent idea. But how will you get critical mass over say Facebook or Ebay or Twitter or Amazon? Sounds like a great app. But being a great app won't turn it into a money making app.

[@hiiipowerbass2337]

wiiiieeerd I just watched the Higlight video you clipped yesterday

[@madzzzey]

So it will never die, most of my friends have played on and off since TBC... and its a "nostalgic" place we all go back to if its retail or classic.

[@littlefinger4509]

It's fanbase will probably be the doom of the game, it gains almost no new players, obviously having a strong community that loves your game is good but without new players it will eventually fall

[@LtZerge]

@@littlefinger4509 That will still take a really long time to happen. The player pool is far too large, even if it had a really steady bleed out it would still take many many years to get to a point where it couldn't keep the lights on. Like it would have to go below 50k active subs to start actually crumbing to the point of failure

[@madzzzey]

@@LtZerge The no new players inn is one issue, the other issues are systems, time investment, poor communication and realisation/stubbornness (in game design top and low-end - Preatch did a good video a few weeks back on systems and what fails to no end every xpac) they run into the same unfun burnout system or they have been for 6 years now.

[@rickroll9705]

@@littlefinger4509 It does takes new players quite regularly. Thats why this channel also has a WoW guide which turned out to be one of the most popular videos lmao.

[@littlefinger4509]

@@rickroll9705 So your defence of wow having an influx of new players is a video on a channel with 60k views? I watched that video my self yet i never started wow.

[@SlashingGamer]

Your videos, sir, are a goldmine. You are a breath of fresh air in the mindless streamline of content that we are presented upon these days. Whats even better is that your language is very accessible, even to a foreigner like me. (I also never played MMOs, so you're inviting even to the untrained viewer.) Great work, keep it up!

[@chemistral4943]

Fantastic video!

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Thanks dude:)

[@headhunter6734]

9:45 Believe it or not, the south park episode is how I was introduced to wow

[@HighmageDerin]

Buddy I got to correct you, because Pokemon came out when I was still in Middle School. It came out for the Gameboy. Not the advanced not the color not the DS the original Gameboy the giant green screen brick that you held in your hand that weighed with the batteries inside of it a half a pound. I know you said you're not a Pokemon fan so I thought I'd just throughout this correction for you Pokemon started Life as a Game Boy game waaaaaaaaaaaay back in 1996 not as a card game. The card game didn't come out until around 1999

[@chrismanuel9768]

Then they made a Pokémon: The Card Game: The Video Game for Gameboy and it was like... lolwut? Still played it though. It was good. Back when Pikachu was a cute little doughboy.

[@HoneyBadgerVideos]

Started the game 2 weeks ago after 16 years of thinking about starting the game. No regrets.

[@arthas236]

How it went?

[@HoneyBadgerVideos]

@@arthas236 got bored after a few weeks. Game was not how I imagined it sadly.

[@arthas236]

@@HoneyBadgerVideos Started on classic or the live version?

[@HoneyBadgerVideos]

@@arthas236 it was the retail version.

[@arthas236]

@@HoneyBadgerVideos You need to try classic, is WAY more fun for a new player, I'm pretty new to the game actually, I started playing on April 2022 and I'm loving it.

[@thitherword]

I grew up with WoW, played it since 2006 when I was just 13. I last played in Legion and even now I still follow its updates and expansions semi regularly.

[@eddw7650]

I think this video puts the phenomenon of playing WoW into words brilliantly. I've been playing WoW since I was 11 years old, and im now 25 and still play the game. I've quit the game countless times over the years for numerous reasons: affording a subscription, boredom, bad community interaction, other games I subjectively find better and more enjoyable. But I have always eventually come back to WoW, because like Josh says its more than just a game at this point. When I discovered the game I had a very difficult, sometimes dangerous, home life. and I struggled to make friends. For me Azeroth (and then Outland, Draenor ect) became my safe place, somewhere I could go and immerse myself and forget about all the dark things around me, interact with people and have fun. I remember very fondly exploring Stranglethorn Vale for the first time as a child and loving the Gorilla models because they reminded me of my Dad (sorry dad). I remember making new friends at secondary school purely through finding out we both played WoW and quoting the Wrath Cinematic relentlessly. It was the game I played with my brother who I shared little else in common with. I personally prefer LOTRO for its rich lore and some of its game mechanics, but I still choose to play WoW over it because of the strong positive associations I have with WoW and the friendships I have made centrered around it. I still play WoW because it has firmly become a part of my life at this point, I love the game and its gameworld, even if I don't consider it to be the best, and its still a safe place for me in tough times 14 years on. TL:DR Josh is right, and my personal experience supports what he says entirely.

[@meowbiich1689]

Yes we can't but blizzard management will

[@BlackHaunter666]

can't kill wow, Blizzard: hold my beer

[@tomdavis3878]

Two unrelated points: 1. The fact that Leeroy Jenkins is a part of our collective culture speaks to WoW's power. He wasn't a famous streamer, or one of the major heroes/villains that Blizzard ensconced in the lore: he's just a player-made character at the center of a funny video, and he's become the go-to reference for someone blindly rushing into a dangerous situation. 2. Another example of a huge franchise that came at the king and still missed was SWTOR. I mean, they combined that franchise's clout with BioWare, the people behind incredibly successful video game franchises like Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect, KOTOR, and Dragon Age. They still couldn't make it work. Granted, there were some issues with the game that contributed to its struggles, but it also shows WoW's importance as the stand-in for "this is what an MMORPG is;" you can have the people who've made some of the best RPGs of the last quarter century make a game centered around one of the most iconic and well known intellectual properties of all time, and it won't be able to get enough traction to overtake WoW.

[@jasonbennett1667]

< the rasmus guy.... :P...hey brudda :P.. love your vids.. im trying to watch all your vids i just found your channel yesterday... can you do a video on the secret world maybe the secret world original that you can still get the client for and paly vs the new secret world legends that divided the player base.. or maybe your thoughts and opinions on he game and history of ever quest or lord of the rings online that ancient thing lol.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Hey man :) im actually planning to do quite a large video on the secret world in the future so, hopefully you'll enjoy that :)

[@AkameGaKen]

i have a 6 months sub on wow. and im playing gw2. lol i still remember starting wow on my windows 98. took me a month to get to level 30. lol pokemon vs magic. kids vs adults. or both with d&d card game🤣 the only thing that can kill wow.. is wow.. im to the point where im just not having fun in wow anymore. same thing with ff14 i absolutely love ff14 but the repetativeness and the lack of accomplishment just makes my time spent meaningless. maybe thats just me getting older. idk.

[@bvbxiong5791]

i think it's a combination of things. getting older probably is the biggest culprit, but i think when we play too much, the "shinyness" wears off. also, most mmo's are mostly just different flavors of the same ice cream, so the whole genre can get stale fast.

[@kylemussman4342]

That’s crazy man! Different perspectives are everything. Cuz I’m loving Shadowlands right now. My guild is starting mythic progression, we’re pushing keys, we’re having fun, we’re a big group that are enjoying the new expansion

[@lvsoad22]

you say that and you'll be back playing wow in 3 months xD

[@RocoPwnage]

boy did this age well

[@Meowvela]

It would be interesting to see a video on WoW nowadays. As a player who came back to it for Dragonflight, it's really felt like it's risen from its grave. Or more accurately, a long aching rest. It went from being a bit of a shamble during Shadowlands to just... really satisfying to play. The story's improved, the overall design's improved, and I find myself logging in and just doing stuff like flying around because it's become intrinsically satisfying now.

[@nbrown5907]

Well WOW is the only sub I keep up even when not playing lol. Got tired of stopping and starting it again.

[@samuelsalvatore4511]

well blizzard sure is trying

[@LightTheViking]

True, we can not kill WoW. They are killing themselves REAL good right now though.

[@Freestyle80]

you are desperate to kill it to validate your choice of not playing it anymore, otherwise dunno why you are so obsessed with typing this sort of thing in every video related to wow

[@mattjharrisyahoo]

I am a tabletop RPGer going back to my childhood in the 70s. The first MMO I played was Pathfinder Online. I backed the kickstarter as it offered lots of Swag for the Pathfinder game. Plus a few months subscription... and I got hooked, even though it wasn't a very good game. It did have a great community though. One of the PFO players suggested I try Shroud of the Avatar (then in pre-release). I had played some of the early Ultima RPGs and so I played that. I was getting a little bored with that when WOW classic came out. I knew a lot of the WOW tropes as they have infected gaming culture and I wanted to see where it all started. I started WOW classic a couple of months after launch and am still playing.

[@LuriTV]

And now Final Fantasy 14 has taken over as most played MMO of 2021

[@feketicsszilard3510]

Its super funny how you talk about "soccer" as americans call it and even mention FIFA and showing footage of american football. You also mention the tribal aspect of american football and the after game pub discussion part of european football. Like those two were not two totally different sports.

[@jonathansoko1085]

I feel you missed the point entirely fam. The 2 sports share a TON in common culturally and how fans treat the two games. Very similar.

[@feketicsszilard3510]

@@jonathansoko1085 I totally got the point and i think he is right in what he says. I just think its funny and really confusing how he talks about 2 different sports as they were the same.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

@@feketicsszilard3510 i wrote the script with english football in mind, then when searching for footage, american football has much grander stadiums and shows and much, much more cult like rituals, so figured that was nicer to watch.

[@The92Waffles]

@@JoshStrifeHayes I'm a big fan of soccer but, come on. Football fans in Europe are muuuch more wild than American football fans lets be real lmao. In reference to the cult-like comment

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

@@The92Waffles they're more wild, that's true, but i wanted to capture the almost religious levels of excess the american stadiums go to for thier shows.

[@petrus4]

The ongoing trend with WoW, has also been towards more and more homogenisation and accessibility, and less and less challenge. WoW is an example of exactly the kind of "worse is better," principle which made the UNIX operating system more popular than anything else in the 1980s, Windows a monoculture in the mid 1990s, and the Intel x86 a CPU monoculture for 30+ years. The basic principle is that garbage always wins. In any given evolutionary race, the winner will always be that which has the LOWEST fitness, (as we would usually, incorrectly define fitness) while still being able to meet the basic criteria for survival. The reason why is because less fitness implies less complexity, which also implies a lower barrier to entry, which in turn implies maximum adaptability. Agility is at its' greatest level when something is small and carrying around a relatively low amount of unnecessary baggage. WoW actually WILL die, eventually. The reason why is because its' in-game geographic territory, and the number of different tradeable commodities in its' Auction House, are both getting sufficiently large as to be unmanageable. WoW's in-game territory now spans multiple spatial dimensions and chronological phases. I can be doing one phase of a quest, and another person will be doing another phase of the same quest, and we will both be completely invisible to each other. The statement "You are never alone," is no longer true in retail. I am alone most of the time while playing that game; although I never am in classic. WoW's supernova occurred during the Wrath of the Lich King expansion; but in the life of any star, it's all down hill from there. The game has shown increasing levels of contraction ever since; Blizzard's full connection of all servers in Cataclysm was the first major sign. White dwarves can have semi-stable existence for a very long time, however, and I think it is true that WoW isn't going anywhere for a long time yet. In both classic and retail forms, I think the game will be around for decades; but while it might not go offline completely, the gradual loss of population will continue.

[@marccarter1350]

The shop featured in the clip is called Fnac which is in Paris

[@NuclearSad]

Watching on stream. Nothing but good points so far.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

What stream? :)

[@NuclearSad]

@@JoshStrifeHayes I stream on here and at twitch.tv/darbycarroll ; wasn't trying to self promo in your comments :) very good video. 5 stars.

[@Alice_Fumo]

You don't need to kill WoW, it does that perfectly fine on its own ;)

[@balazsszucs7055]

"I'm not saying you can't make a better game" *footage of Final Fantasy XIV* Personnal taste aside I totally agree. While WoW was never really that good if you are honest with yourself, it is a multimedia franchise with loads of memes. It is a cultural phenomenon. Same with Star Wars which I really love by the way. But even the best entries of the franchise like Empire Strikes Back or the Mandalorian are pulpy homages to older and better stuff. But cultural phenomenons can't die.

[@RiseInAfterlife]

If the insult in movie form 'Rise of Skywalker' did not kill Star Wars by essentially killing the main trilogy then nothing will.

[@balazsszucs7055]

@@RiseInAfterlife Exactly. It will survive everything. The fandom might change, but it will survive. It is ingrained in culture. And you can't kill culture.

[@Freestyle80]

yeah wow sucks, thats why it survived for 16 years why are you salty about this? lol 'it was never really that good but people played it anyway!' what sort of argument is this?

[@balazsszucs7055]

@@Freestyle80 You seem far more salty than I am, bro. Did I touch a nerve?

[@ViccVegaa023]

I'm old enough to remember both The Simpsons and South Park parodying WoW. Imagine how big of a deal you have to be for both of those shows to notice you when they were at their creative peak. There are people who don't play MMOs at all who know what WoW is. Its bigger than it's own genre.

[@ivankraljevic1]

Those shows would throw just about anything in so I don't find this that suprising. 'Bigger than it's own genre' is amazingly well putted

[@michaelcoffey1991]

I think 60 to 75% is Nostalgia and many of the people in Wow still playing with and in guilds with wow lifer's.... so they do not try an see other games and other worlds.... @Josh while I think we BOTH know better mmo's are out there, but I 110% agree with your premise. The game was too good for a long time, and now is media of film, and comic, and books.... I think even with Blizzard being a name only, and this now a EA game, it will go one for aslong as EA wants to do current server's and retro server's. It will always print money. This was a very fun mmo as tho wife and I played Wow for 8 to 9 years we learned a few things from what you discussed. You continue to be our "go to" for mmo advice, coverage and discussion pieces.