Why You Need A Chest To Make A Proper Hopper Minecart Item Filter

[@lajawi.]

I love how you always explain the problem to fix, different iterations etc. That way we don't need to go through the same struggle!

[@bottledcat6255]

Like a well written paper abstract, chef's kiss

[@tissuepaper9962]

@@bottledcat6255 he's a real life engineer IIRC, and it really shows through in his ability to explain technical concepts in a "first principles" way.

[@TheLastCrumb.]

Exactly why I watch. Most others will show you block by block on builds but don’t really explain why you are doing it the way you’re being shown.

[@tldr9989]

A couple of years ago the guy said "hey, we can have the hopper pointing down and doubled sorting speed". Now he's like "disregard, eight times faster it is". Good job, man.

[@NooshaSheep]

Wait… you can point the top hopper down on the water-based auto sorter? Instead of forward? And it’ll double the sorting speed?

[@tldr9989]

@@NooshaSheep The actual sorting hopper, the one usually facing the comparator, that one goes facing down. And then three hoppers below in an L shape feeding a chest. Search for ilmango double speed sorting and it should come up.

[@linuxpropaganda]

I love how at 2:49 he says "this is not possible" referring to something in front of him XD. Nice video as always!

[@YellowBunny]

It's possible to place the rails like that using update suppression or not survival friendly methods. But the upper rail would get broken as soon as it gets a block update making it useless for a sorter.

[@ItsaJuraff]

@@YellowBunny Just update suppress it every time it gets powered/unpowered! Update suppressors are super easy on the client and very stable

[@YellowBunny]

@@ItsaJuraff I guess we are overcomplicating it a bit at this point :)

[@jaexynn]

​@@YellowBunny Lol I think @juraff was being sarcastic :P

[@magnusanderson6681]

@@ItsaJuraff update suppression crashes the server if done by redstone! Make sure you have an alt there afking constantly to help it out

[@ENDESGA]

I’m a longtime Minecraft veteran, and watching this blew my mind. Everything you explained makes perfect sense, and yet I’ve NEVER seen anyone do it. Phenomenal work

[@walls_of_skulls6061]

I don't think we'll ever stop learning minecraft tips, it's amazing to watch the setups people used to use

[@1224chrisng]

I think Etho has done it once, but he doesn't make tutorials, so it's just buried in one of his episodes

[@fireskorpion396]

I really appreciate it when you make these behind-the-scenes/ design or explanation videos! :D

[@ingoseiler]

This is something I needed a couple of years ago! Had to redesign my contraption completely because I just couldn't get that hopper Minecraft item filter to work!

[@pumkin610]

Item filters make no sense to me lol

[@wntiv]

This is actually really useful for me because on the server I play on there is a 100-hopper limit, but no limit on hopper minecarts! Thx so much for explaining this problem!

[@volbla]

That's funny since hopper minecarts are much laggier :3

[@wntiv]

@@volbla yeah lol

[@Akhimed]

That sounds like a cool challenge, I’m assuming the owner is doing it for lag efficiency but this idea could be used somewhere else

[@wntiv]

@@Akhimed yeah

[@Shuroii]

@@Akhimed I had a server where hoppers were uncraftable but the Create mod took their place nicely

[@richardlange5048]

I really like the increase in advanced educational videos recently, great quality videos

[@NaughtMax]

This is so cool, I encountered that same problem a few years ago but didn’t realized the comparator wasn’t getting proper updates, such a cool fix

[@ah-64apache84]

i love minecraft item filters for they are the sweet spot of complexity and problem constraints, that makes finding new ways to use ingame mechanics so satisfying

[@bobparker1671]

Seems like this would also be useful for a furnace array to properly divvy out fuel for the hopper cart for maximum efficiency.

[@raymondwiggins354]

I wonder which minecart the comparator would use if there were multiple minecart hoppers on the same rail...

[@TheRealWormbo]

@@raymondwiggins354 The first one returned in the result list of the entity search - whichever that would be. (With command block minecarts taking precedence over container minecarts.)

[@BunniesMC101]

@@TheRealWormbo Wouldn't multiple hopper minecarts cause this system to fail as when (if) another hopper minecart unlocked the one below, the items could pass from the filter set of another of the multiple hopper minecart? Or less convoluted: the comparator activates the redstone signal without passing details on which entity caused the signal change?

[@undead890]

This is awesome! I have wanted to use minecart hoppers for item sorting for years, but could never figure out how to make it work. This tutorial is exactly what I was looking for.

[@gwenhyfarbeati]

i appreciate the description on how the regular filter works, too. i've made a million of them, but never actually known how they worked because i've only ever done it via tutorials and all they say is to place a thingy here and another thingy there.

[@OverEngineeredMistakes]

This contraption come just at the right time with the new mud mechanic

[@samuele542]

thank you for explaining this i had the same issue while working on the honey autocrafting system

[@Pence128]

I discovered this when trying to make a variable item filter with hopper minecarts. I didn't know you could just update the comparator so I was pushing detector rails back and forth under the minecart.

[@volbla]

Yeah, comparators are kind of special. They get their own kind of update whenever a nearby inventory updates. But apparently only block inventories send those, and not entity inventories like the minecart.

[@paulorodrigues593]

Perfect, i designed a bartering farm and it sucks to transport itens in the nether and building shulker box loaders costs a lot, this will help me use the space very efficiently

[@greenpeasuit]

Do you have a clock moving a gold block to force insta-trading?

[@kingacrisius]

I had this exact problem a couple of days ago but didn't think about updating the comparator, amazing timing lol

[@HaloBalla]

Love the videos! Been playing MC for just a few months now and feel like I'm starting to understand just how much work you've put into your creations. I hope you reconsider making tutorials-- your stuff is top tier! If not I understand. It's a pleasure to follow you and benefit from your knowledge and expertise!

[@YounesLayachi]

0:36 When an issue bugs ilmango, he uses the bug as a beneficial exploit

[@GreatWhiteElf]

Great solutions for a problem that's plagued many minecraft players for years. The recent videos really feel inspired

[@woodchuck321]

minecraft: *has been out for about 102,000 hours* ilmango: "in my hundreds of thousands of hours..." conclusion: ilmango is a time traveller who has repeatedly traveled back in time to play minecraft. only way he could be this good at the game.

[@jasonrubik]

LOL ! Except that he did say "hundreds OR thousands" 😉

[@JadenWong]

Thanks for explaining the issue and showing us the solution step by step

[@Illogical.]

7:39 In I think season 4 of hermit craft, Mumbo was told to put furnaces on top of his hopper lines to reduce lag. (the season with the coffetable-shaped ocean base.) I'm not sure, if it did reduce lag, but maybe it could be used for ticking instead of the chest for stightly less lag. I don't know how this part works specifically, but if a furnace checks its list of smeltable items every time it starts smelting, then a blast furnace must be slightly less laggy.

[@aadeshsenthilkumar]

This video was mindblowing. I am impressed with thne technical community everytime someone like you comes up with a simple yet invaluable technique like the way you managed to make a sorting system 8 times faster. I started playing modded minecraft because vanilla become to bland and repetivive, but this video has brought up my interest back :)

[@user-hv9uy4bc9x]

I struggled with this for hours, Thank you for the video

[@gregorywhitney565]

Ilmango: Can’t place rails on top of each other * literally looking at rails on top each other Me: that’s illegal

[@shanegibbens]

Nice man! Great video as always!

[@zitronenwasser]

This helped me with my update supressed wireless item transfer, used a observer clock before but this is alot nicer for that. Thank you

[@bengoodwin2141]

Could you replace the chest with a full composter to reduce lag even further?

[@volbla]

I like this suggestion.

[@antoineb9278]

I’d say the reason this chest+hopper trick is laggy is precisely because it sends block updates every tick. If some other block doesn’t generate lag, thats because it doesn’t update neighboring blocks every tick, so it wouldn’t be useful here. Maybe i’m wrong tho, but it would make sense that the lag comes from the block updates i guess

[@Hexcede]

@@antoineb9278 I would recommend checking out comparator update detectors (CUDs). Blew my mind when I first saw it. Essentially, the hopper is full, so it can't accept the item from the chest. But, it still creates comparator updates for the chest above (probably to keep things in sync if a slot frees or just an unintentional side effect) So, every tick the chest's inventory is updating and that is updating the comparator. CUDs are honestly amazing and so are comparator updates because they work entirely differently from block updates (they aren't block updates at all actually), for example, you can detect a player clicking inside of an inventory, which even triggers a CUD if the player clicks an empty slot. Great for secret entrances!

[@antoineb9278]

@@Hexcede damn never knew about this

[@Temari_Virus]

@@Hexcede Can't believe I only found out about this now, I used to play on bedrock where you can use observers to detect inventory changes in a chest, but never knew you could do something similar in Java as well!

[@sanderbos4243]

I loved this explanation, very cool and insightful!

[@ncolyer]

7:10 ive used this b4 in a ntf and it doesnt update with certain versions of lithium weirdly (also doesnt work on most paper and spigot servers but thats expected)

[@sycco42]

7:30 but the twenty tick observer clock lagged way more than the hopper-chest/barrel updating for my magic buttons?

[@herzogheftig1479]

omg, thank you so much ilmango! You helped me a lot with that solution. Appreciate your hard work!

[@memetdatsuyuichi]

oh gosh, this is i'm waiting for. it would be more useful design for farm & etc. love your vids, the whole explanations are far more good!

[@dr3ddy]

any news on scicraft version update?

[@MECKENICALROBOT]

Need to test this out in bedrock, but just found a _secret feature_ with the detector rail, where it doesn’t power surrounding block making this setup tileable. Geeked!

[@deliverick9695]

welcome to the ilmango academy, today we will learn about item filter... but faster me who had been using the 1st version of item filter- the what now?

[@werner2810]

This is so excellent explained, love it.

[@Coreo_Oreo]

With the chest system, instead of a chest would it work for a full composter? As hoppers can automatically take bone meal out. I dont know though i am not a redstoner and im not even sure if its been tried. But i would be interested to know.

[@korok2619]

as composters are used to make hoppers not lag, and the update stuff probably being the lag source, maybe not. Though any inventory (furnace, dropper, etc) should be the same as the chest i guess

[@feliksporeba5851]

Actually no. When you use a composter it only updates every 8 ticks. Thats because the hopper does this every tick: 1. If the cooldown is > 0 decrese it by 1 and skip the actions below 2. Otherwise (if cooldown is 0) try to pull an item from inventory of a block above 3. If an item was succesfully pulled or there is no item to pull set the cooldown to 8 ticks So if you use a chest that have an item that cannot be pulled from it the hopper will check for it (and create updates) every tick. Thats also why mango says it is very laggy I saw a great indepth explanetion of mechanics of hoppers. I'll edit a link here when I find it PS Sorry for my english. I'm not a native

[@josiahdsmith5641]

This is actually a very interesting question and one I asked myself a couple of months ago. To expand on what Feliks said, the hopper will attempt to pull an item from the container above if the hopper is not full. If there is an item in the container above, the hopper *will successfully pull it* (this is very important) and only then will the hopper check if the item can fit into one of the hopper item slots. If the item cannot fit, the hopper will put the item back into the container. The code process above is what causes the chest to send out updates every tick in the layout ilmango showed, because when the hopper pulls the item from the chest, it tells the chest to do what are known as ‘comparator updates’, and since the item is put back into the chest, the hopper never goes into the 8gt cooldown, and will attempt the same thing the next tick. Now, how does this relate to composters? Well, it’s important to realize that composters do not actually have an inventory slot like most containers do (this is why they are moveable and also why they are the most lag efficient container to put over hoppers). Because of this, what happens in the code is that the hopper pulls a bonemeal from the full composter and sets the composter to be empty. The hopper then attempts to put the bonemeal in one of its inventory slots. However, this fails and so the hopper tries to put the bonemeal back into the composter’s inventory slot. But wait! The composter doesn’t have an inventory slot! So what happens? Well, long story short is that the code simply gives up and deletes the bonemeal, leaving the composter empty. Tldr: if you try this the hopper will empty the composter and then delete the bonemeal because the original code is spaghetti and poorly thought through. I highly suggest you try this out in-game. It’s quite funny. Anyways, I hope that helps! :)

[@charlesbukowski9734]

I have a problem, when I drop items in the sorter only 4 chests out of 8 get filled. The other 4 get filled only after the previous 4 are already full.

[@Loup_Garou]

I think mango has secretly made a auto video maker Love the consistency, keep it up 😘

[@alexkreps1]

9:40 You could probably pick up an entire stack if you changed one ice out for a standard building block.

[@redstonepotato9756]

Really handy little tip. I don’t know yet what for but I know it will be.

[@highcommander2007]

Useful for sure!!! ty for going over it

[@naberville3305]

An alternative way to unpower a hopper minecart is to pull the detector rail out from under it with a piston. Not sure if that's particularly helpful for this application. I use it for a hidden key card reader.

[@thehackofalltrades1630]

My monkey brain is still too small to understand this wizardry but you explain as best as anyone could try - great video! =)

[@Learningin-L]

something about this makes me feel like I'm learning some very important redstone

[@jeffhayes_Gent_Be]

as a follow up to my previous comment. I was able to get two Hopper Minecarts stacked so the top one would transfer to the lower one, but i had to break the detector rail under it and use a half block item, like an iron rail or a fence post, to push the upper cart into so that it hung far enough out to be "over" the lower one. But then of course there is no signal to shut off the lower hopper when it should. So .. not working in 1.19.3

[@ajdowns]

Great video, very informative and useful!

[@flufflessMC]

Would a composter next to the comparator update the comparator as well, instead of the chest and the hopper?

[@HolySl0w]

ooomg this is the solution to my guardian farm! it's producing so much i was struggling a lot. it's a mess of water streams with 6 filters each item and still some gets burned cuz even a loop keeps getting clogged

[@Hacker1o1]

Loops cant get clogged unless you have items without hoppers.

[@ebentually]

does the observer variant (shown at 6:37) also update the comparator each tick/what is the timing for updating the comparator?

[@flache1086]

Thx for this video. I needed that once wish I had this sooner x)

[@alphaomega2916]

Hyped for Scicraft finally getting updated to 1.14.

[@vinicus508]

1.14?

[@JumanjiG]

This is perfect for servers that slow down hopper ticks, super usefull

[@Porkey_Minch]

That bit with the chest sending updates makes me wonder if Comparator Update Detectors (CUD) still work. Also with all the new tech in recent times are there any new quartzless item sorter designs?

[@85matticus]

Ran into the same problem. Simple fix was to dispense and remove one bucket at a time instead of keeping the dispenser full

[@LucasStraub]

Holy shit, this might save my item sorter design, I had problems with observers

[@Hlebuw3k]

ilmango you are a genius!

[@dabqu]

another very interesting video (I haven't played minecraft in 5+ years)

[@flache1086]

Do you need to update it more often? If you want it more lag friendly you can detect the change in strenth with an observer and use that with some timing to take out the right amount of items every time it gets to 16 (and have a contraption to ignore the second pulse when it goes down )

[@Llamamanllama]

I was just playing around with this idea the other day, this looks A LOT better than mine.

[@commandblock7077]

I think you should see the item sorter made by Senshi Roll it's actually pretty good and it's relatively compact

[@shainemcmillan]

How would this apply to a sorting system. When I attempted to apply it the detector rail locks the hopper line and only allows the item your sorting in the hopper minecart through everything gets stuck in the line.

[@aefinn]

This was really interesting. Thank you! :) I feel there is potential to use this with gold farms. So far I feel like normal hopper systems just can't keep up with them or at leas tthis would be much cleaner solution.

[@jakistam1000]

When doing autocrafters (with carpet autoCraftingDroppers), I was also using hopper minecart filters, but in a different way, such that I didn't encounter this issue. I had only one hopper minecart, on top of activator rails, on top of two hoppers. The rails and both hoppers were powered by default, and unpowered when needed. Would this solution work for your powdered snow system? It's more compact than your solution, but limited to double hopper speed (with possible extention to quad speed).

[@sledzik1235]

I had to make comparator less item sorter for my superflat no structures world. I designed something that works but surely ilmango would build something more optimal so if you want you can treat this as a challange

[@manoharm9716]

So the chest and hopper constantly updates the comparator, that’s so weird, how does one even find stuff like that?

[@rowanhensley3615]

It's basically b/c the hopper is searching the chest for items it can suck, and updating the comparator in case it finds them.

[@manoharm9716]

@@rowanhensley3615 ahhh ok, that makes sense

[@vinicus508]

they find stuff like that by looking into the code.

[@MichaelPohoreski]

There are various ways to find redstone behavior: 1. Trial and error 2. Reverse engineering by decompiling the Java byte code

[@blackdog6969]

This is brilliant. Im hoping I can adapt this to fix my bedrock sorting system in my gold farm. Sick of having to occasionally clear my furnaces of things that arent sorted correctly. Im assuming some of this uses java bud magic but testing with the observer clock could potentially work

[@r4gequ1t_cya]

I tried this and for some reason the detector rail always powers the activator rail at the bottom when I put a minecraft on it, which isn't the case in your video. Did they change redstone in any form of ways?

[@thelordofspyro]

hopper minecard filters are also the best hidden triggers. you have to drop a very special item on one block and only then it opens!!!

[@shadowscythes]

I'm curious as to why exactly the chest and hopper setup sends updates through the chest every tick

[@alpaca7215]

Basically the hopper is constantly trying to take an item from the chest so both are getting updated every tick. Since the chest is next to the comparator it gets updated as well.

[@Dra3oon]

Because the chest has a hopper under it, it checks every tick how full it is. If you power the hopper underneath, it can stop checking,

[@iveharzing]

So if the chest would be replaced by a composter (which only has 1 "inventory slot"), would that also work?

[@Dra3oon]

@@iveharzing I don’t think so no. Maybe if it was full though. Test it out

[@shadowscythes]

@@Dra3oon well I knew that, I was more confused as to why the hopper needs 5 of the same item in it and the chest needs a different item

[@Jeppelelle]

Oh, i was wondering why Docm77 had a chest with a hopper under it pointing straight into a glass block next to his furnace comparator in the item shadowing storage system, same reason as here

[@wtechboy18]

can you have two hopper carts on the same activator rail? i.e. for the item stream pickup, could you use two hopper carts to catch the entire stack in one go?

[@bilb0bagginz684]

@ilmango if U did that would it be a chunk loader if it ways update like the old hopper loaders

[@Hacker1o1]

I might integrate that octuple item speed filter into my raid farm

[@DerLuukee]

0:15 "after hundreds of thousands of hours". ilmango has been playing Minecraft (at least) 24/7 since the release of Minecraft.

[@ilmango]

hundreds or thousands

[@DerLuukee]

@@ilmango ohh that's an "or" 😂👍

[@55mase76]

Wow, had this issue so many times, ty

[@ajsliter]

Is it possible to compact this to 2 wide tilable or 1 wide tilable? I need this because I want a storage system that will be able to sort two minecart with hoppers filled with random stackable items that are broken by a instant minecart unloader (now possible in 1.19)? I tried to use hopper sorters without your fix and got frustrated because the delay was too long before it stopped sucking items. I also tried your double speed filter. The extra stacks of items in the second hopper is unacceptable to me so I need a fast (2x hopper speed) or greater 1-2 wide tilable system that accepts 2 items as filter and only uses one item in the bottom hopper besides renamed filter items. This is to reduce the sheer number of entities being dispensed by the system and making sorting into the first chest of the storage much faster than hopper speed while it disperses through each slice into the bottom chests at hopper speed.

[@mikecroakphone]

Run into a problem with my super smelter as I use lava buckets and didn't want the buckets into my shulker loader (and I use minecart hoppers to pick it up). I set up 5 hopper sorters with water locked rails but because of server lag (I guess cause it's not consistent) the minecart hoppers stop. Gonna try this and hope I works better I may have to set up two sorters 🤔but that's still better than five

[@TheDirtyShaman]

Would a filled composter instead of the chest also update the comparator?

[@Code_DarkWolf]

9:14 Are those hoppers minecarts aligned with 4 hoppers each one using honey blocks and iron bars? That should be the hardest part of the fast item sorter, I can imagine a lot of this modules causing lag together in my main storage.

[@Hacker1o1]

What iron bars?

[@Hacker1o1]

He just placed honey down and pushed the minecarts for a second, no special trick is needed. And the only thing that will cause excessive amounts of lag is the hopper chest updater. Which only needs to run when actual items are implemented. It wont be laggy.

[@Code_DarkWolf]

@@Hacker1o1 My fault, those ara walls, I never use hopper minecarts this way so I don't know how they will perform, Thanks for the info

[@bennettlewis5495]

I'm still wondering what you need such a powerful powder snow generator for.

[@paullavoie5542]

In bedrock we use the target block as part of the item filter where there red stone torch goes.

[@alexkreps1]

I'm interested to see why you need to place powdered snow so fast... Is there a farm incoming?

[@ilmango]

video tomorrow ;)

[@lil_saiko9833]

There’s a video on KZbin where this guy has a 1 wide, tile-able hopper minecart filter. works in Bedrock and Java I’ve tried!

[@minophilic6577]

Sorry mango, my concepts are soo bad in sorting system, i never gets them, can't understand the things in ur new design. Really the redstone community is being ran by you our Master. Mad respects🙏🏻

[@OrioPrisco]

A comparator will output a signal with redstone stength between 0 and 15 depending on how full a container is. What you want is to have a hopper with enough items so that the signal is essentially at 1.99 but gets rounded down to one. Then when you add an item it goes up to two, which can be detected. When you detect the signal, it means that the hopper has picked up an item. You can therefore unlock the hopper for a single tick to allow the item to fall down in the chest below. Hope this helps

[@YounesLayachi]

@@OrioPrisco it does :D

[@p4n4143]

Will there be another 4x4 chunk challenge video?

[@FemMushroom]

Wow! I learned a lot from this video.

[@sirog7116]

This is ACTUALLY revolutionary for some large farms.

[@racernatorde5318]

No, not at all. Normal filters are much more lag efficient and easier to build. This is just something for special cases

[@sirog7116]

@@racernatorde5318 It's very important when you have highly efficienct farms with very high rate item input when a ordinary hopper can't keep up . Also he showed a way to significantly reduce lay with two observers in the second configuration.

[@racernatorde5318]

@@sirog7116 The hopper minecarts cause serious lag (As entities) if you need multiple of these systems. And considering the importance of lag optimization for large farms, I would not use such system as long as there is alternative

[@vinicus508]

@@sirog7116 He didnt do it to replace large farms storage systems.... It's a niche and specific use case scenario. For large output farms its still better to use regular sorters. If a farm outputs too many items, the way around it is to place more hoppers. EVEN if you use hopper minecarts and it can PICK UP items 8 times as fast, you can't TRANSFER those items to containers at the same speed, you need regular hoppers anyways, so in the end you use THE SAME amount of regular hoppers so no, its not revolutionary for large farms at all.

[@sirog7116]

@@racernatorde5318 If there is a redstone contraption , there will be a particular use for it . -Sum Tzu , the art of redstone engineering. For your kind information, I know that they are entities and also know that they cause lag but if I use the second configuration where the observer is activated only when redstone signal is detected , lag will be reduced. Also FYI , I was just going to use it when the speed and space required more than the lag-friendlyness . It better to use one of these instead of 3 double speed item sorters (for the same item) in a certain farm I am using .

[@trepidati0n533]

Most excellent video....wonder if something like this would be good for high speed bartering farm (e.g. chucking boxes of gold bars at the piglins)

[@dryden001]

Reminds me of a video I made awhile ago about fast item sorting.

[@jeffhayes_Gent_Be]

i am not able to make this work in 1.19.2 .. the moment that i place the second rail the first is pulled into alignment and forms a sloping rail that dumps the minecart. And in the final version you show two hopper minecarts inside glass blocks that allow you to put rails on top of the lower two carts .. but i have not been able to find a way to do that .. pistons do not push carts into glass blocks. any tips ?

[@yt.personal.identification]

So many lessons in one video.

[@justinnamilee]

Ah redstone, where the glitches are features and the features are glitched.

[@tito_me_doe676]

if only it could be 1-wide and tileable. Could a composted be used in place of the chest?

[@jakobdanowski1325]

Theoretically if you had a guaranteed 8 buckets per second stream of items you could also have them being picked up by the hopper mine cart, feeding into a dubble chest with 2 regular hopper item filters beneath picking up items constantly. This ofc would break instantly if there are no 8 items / sec at all times but It could be made a little bit more reliant with for example the whole chest being filled up with buckets and an alternative overflow bucket supplie as a buffer. The system also couldn’t handle anything above the 8 buckets per second. And it’s probably way more laggy. Am I missing something ?

[@ArsenalMC7]

This is great for gold farms and other farms where you need multiple filters for the same item

[@patrickprafke4894]

What's the point of the honey block? Somehow different then other blocks?