Why You're Wrong About Boardwalk Empire

[@CineRanter]

*Please note: There are 3 small cuts in this video. This is due to a copyright hit. You can see the full version here:* www.patreon.com/posts/why-youre-wrong-115659198?Link&

[@iluomobravo]

I would describe season one as VERY good. Season 2 and 3 were outstanding. Season 4 I’d say was just good and season 5 was of course poor but not because they did a bad job but because it was rushed as HBO forced them to wrap it up.

[@aaronyochim9779]

Season 5 just depressed me.

[@DSPHistoricalSociety]

Why does HBO give birth to so many classics, only to prematurely kill them off too soon?

[@nancyvillines4552]

​@@DSPHistoricalSocietyyet the Crown should of stopped at season 4. The rest is just still too soon. Still too raw. Wasn't impressed with season 5. Doubt I'll watch season 6. Too soon.

[@arrow1414]

​@@DSPHistoricalSociety Rising production cost.

[@arturorivera6173]

​@@DSPHistoricalSocietytoo soon? Five seasons is more than enough . Just got to end it right

[@Straggler8]

Arnold Rothstein in Boardwalk was one of the best characters I've ever watched in any show - it was absolutely superb and I was crushed when they killed him offscreen in timeskip :(

[@giovannifitzpatrick1987]

The timeskip was necessary because of one important historical bit the show, perhaps unintentionally, made ahistorical: Capone and Lucky/Lansky weren't contemporaries in terms of power. Capone was boss of Chicago by 1925. Lucky and Lansky were still underlings to Joe Masseria at the time. They wouldn't even kill Masseria until 1930, and Maranzano until 1931, and by the point of Maranzano's death, Capone was already convicted of tax evasion and would be sent to Alcatraz in 1932. Capone casually interacting with Lansky and Luciano was incredibly ahistorical. Not only was Capone not in NYC in any significant way, but a boss like him wouldn't be converting with underling hoods like Lansky and Luciano, but because those three were the biggest historical names on the show, the creators felt it necessary to make them comparable in prominence (and location). Simply put, the constraints of history would make it impossible for Capone to be gladhanding with Lucky and Lanksy. It's the mafia equivalent of the President of the United States casually hanging out with a Congressional intern. Further, because of the 7 year time skip between seasons 4 and 5, we miss all of the significant shit that Capone did while boss in Chicago (such as his war with Hymie Weiss, Bugs Moran, Joe Aiello, and the St. Valentine's Day massacre), and it makes it seem as though Lansky and Luciano were of similar power and prominence by 1931 (when in fact, they had to kill Joe the Boss and Salvator Maranzano to get that prominence, and Capone would be convicted later that year and shipped to Alcatraz in 1932). The reality is that Chicago was a much more interesting mafia hotspot than NYC in the 1920s, but because they introduced Lucky and Lansky so early, having them meandering for 5+ years between 1925 (when they were nobodies) until they kill Joe the Boss and Maranzano would've been boring in comparison to Capone running Chicago. So while I'm sure the time skip was mostly for cost (they knew they had to wrap up everything by season 5), it did allow them to avoid a narrative hole that Luciano and Lansky would've been left in because nothing really interesting (at least compared to what was happening in Chicago, and aside from Lucky's kidnapping in 1929 and Rothstein's murder in 1928) happened during that period of time.

[@TonyVerrazano]

Michael Stuhlbarg was flawless as "The Brain" Arnold Rothstein. One of the best.

[@TonyVerrazano]

​@@giovannifitzpatrick1987 Your history sounds a little flawed. Al Capone started his career in the underworld in NYC. Specifically in the 5 points gang in lower Manhattan. (Can't say he had nothing to do with Ny) All these fellas knew who each other were...and Capone was never inducted in Cosa Nostra, just highly respected as the "boss" of the Chicago outfit and recognized by the commission once Charlie organized it... but he didn't have rank over Charlie. He still had ties to NY, maybe he didn't go there himself but don't mistake he forgot his roots and others who were coming up in the rackets after he left. I think it was historically accurate that Al, Johnny Torrio, Charlie, Frankie Uale... knew of and probably did business at some point with each other. Just my opinion.

[@edgewiseCL]

I loved his quote about a man being able to sit in a room by himself. That rocked me for some reason.

[@Straggler8]

@@edgewiseCL Absolutely. "Do nothing" when there is no play quote was also incredible. Same with "Flip a coin, when it's in air you'll know your choice" and many more - this show was underrated af

[@tommyboyindy1157]

Stephen Graham as Capone was a highlight of this show. Dude can act.

[@VuotoPneumaNN]

Getting a Brit to play an Italian is a stupid idea. At least they got a Brit who can fucking act.

[@jasonbodine6033]

He was too small. That took me out of it too much. Other than that, he played the role fairly well.

[@tommyboyindy1157]

@@jasonbodine6033 : Agree about him being too small

[@eugeneenegue3648]

If Capone was a English midget he was spot on

[@moceri55]

I almost shit when I saw him in an interview and he had a British accent. This was after seeing him in several different things with American Brooklynese accents.

[@relto8]

Gyp Rosetti cursed the show after he got stabbed in the back.

[@blenderbanana]

The fall of Gillian was great

[@OrthodoxHC]

I think Animal Blundetto did a great job with this Nucky Thompson character. My favorite scene of his is when he kills that kid Roland in cold blood without any provocation whatsoever

[@paulraines9635]

Just like how he murdered that kid Billy.

[@OrthodoxHC]

@@paulraines9635 It's sad when they go young like that

[@breezus3928]

​@@OrthodoxHC When they GO?!

[@heyitsvos]

"Your brother.... Whatever happened there" JESUS CHRIST CARMINE

[@Christafa724]

@@paulraines9635what ever happened there

[@bigdingus5359]

I loved this show, the last season was a bit rushed but its probably an 8/10 or 9/10 overall. The final scene was great!

[@iluomobravo]

A bit rushed? I’d say that assessment is rather generous. They leap frogged entire story arcs. So disappointing

[@pegcity4eva]

Yeah it was problematic

[@weshouser821]

I was almost mad because I was really into the show. I remember being like "wtf is happening?" it was like they threw the whole story in the trash. They straight up just killed everyone in some random way like "fuck it this is over." I think the only scene I liked was the scene where Luciano basically dissects his crew but even then, I was like "how and why is this even happening?" like why was Meyer and Luciano so pissed and why was Nucky suddenly so weak it was like not even a fight or barely a discussion just a "ha! we got ya!". Also, Van Alden was built up for the whole show just to get smoked over some dumb shit. It was like they made up a "buddy cop" story on the spot for him and Eli Thompson like Eli is banging his wife out of nowhere? wtf?

[@MrHeart1]

I loved this show as well. It is a shame it ended the way it did, but this show was one of my all time favorites. (I still don't know what happened to Paz De La Vega though. Weinstein?

[@bigdingus5359]

Not perfect but still a good watch for any fans of crime dramas

[@heffreybuzz]

This show was phenomenal. Went downhill a bit in season 4 and season 5 was poor but still secures a spot as one of my all-time favorites

[@firestriker3580]

It didn’t go downhill in season 4 and Season 5 was rich

[@vitamindealer7915]

@@firestriker3580season 5 is terrible and it shows. Season 4 is alot better than people give it credit for. Season 1 and 2 are amazing, but had very huge behind the scenes issues with the actors.

[@miekgg]

@@firestriker3580were you kidding? season 5 was forced to be rushed and finished… it’s not good at all

[@miekgg]

@@firestriker3580”season 5 was rich” 😂😂😂 don’t comment things under the influence

[@MyKeeP81]

@@vitamindealer7915 love both s4 and s5

[@garthleadon8483]

I totally disagree as I believe that this show was meant to be a period place and nothing more. I remember watching this and I felt like that I had been transported to 1920's America. The cinematography was outstanding as well. It was a pretty ambitious show but l believe that the show succeeded in giving us memorable characters and amazing stories.

[@dakritic]

Chalky White’s and Richard Harrow’s endings were needlessly depressing. They deserved better.

[@phil-Leotardo.171]

Dat animal Nucky Thompson

[@Terminatortravis]

I wanted manicott

[@allpraisestothemosthigh9418]

I can't even say his name

[@allpraisestothemosthigh9418]

​@@Terminatortravisbut I compromised

[@philtanics1082]

whatever happened there

[@chinchilla415]

The wine makes you emotional

[@MGBillionaire]

We never got those stories because Game of Throne's skyrocketing budget cut into this shows budget.

[@MrSlimSheaD]

I think for me an issue was while I liked Nucky, he felt more like a character other characters were meant to interact with as opposed to his own man. Still, not bad for a breadstick in a bowtie.

[@Rick_Riff]

The fight between Eli and the agent is the best most enjoyable and realistic fight scene ever filmed. Brutal!

[@adamweisshaup]

You really understand the basis of Eli's savagery in the fight too, after being goaded with that final threat to his son's freedom.

[@Rick_Riff]

@@adamweisshaup yeah that's the key you're right. The acting is superb.

[@edgewiseCL]

Season four is filled with so many great action scenes and brutal deaths. Dunn stabbing the cuckold to death, the aforementioned Knox vs Eli, Meyer at the card table, and Van Alden going postal on his old co-workers. Not to mention Frank, or a certain character who is arguably one of the greatest in tv ever for me personally. Season 4 is my personal favorite, I have to say.

[@wilsonbelle6600]

@@adamweisshaupAnd his son's butt.

[@wilsonbelle6600]

Dan Dority and Captain Turner in Deadwood was pretty gruesome too.

[@theconfidentialcookie6245]

I loved boardwalk empire. Every single character felt right and was well acted. Great great show. Overall 9/10 id say.

[@KH-ow7hc]

10/10

[@Twxst616]

Stephen Graham as Al Capone is such a crazy casting choice but I think he pulled it off perfectly, apart from that one scene in the woods when he shouts and his scouse accent comes through for a split second😂

[@enterthebruce91]

Stephen Graham was incredible in Boardwalk Empire, This is England, Boiling Point and other films. Boardwalk Empire is my favourite show of all time next to The Wire, I'd highly recommend Tokyo Vice-Two seasons are available on BBC IPlayer-A Yakuza crime drama at it's best (loosely based on a true story). HBO/Max does it again ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

[@Heyitskrystal]

It makes me think of the show Rome also an HBO sow except the opposite. Opulent sets great characters but they condensed a huge historical events into 2 seasons. You get the impression they realized at the end when it got popular it should have been 5 or 6 seasons. I’d love to see your analysis of it and it’s a relatively short watch for a series.

[@nicklj2480]

Rome was fantastic!

[@wcstrawberryfields8011]

Rome could have ran for a decade! So many potential storylines...

[@MrRjh63]

Rome was supposed to be 3 seasons but HBO pulled the plug and they had to wrap it in S2.

[@miekgg]

@@MrRjh63still a great show they did the best they possibly could w 24 epsiodes

[@NoTimeAllTime]

Rome season 1 was amazing, Rome season 2 was 4 seasons of story and then some in one season and it suffered for it

[@ElliottNest41]

Yes, I see what you’re saying regarding Nucky. During the first season, my mind kept telling me that Nucky was being played by Don Knotts.

[@muzz1290]

yo this killed me

[@Premixandmaster]

Oh wow 😂😂

[@Rick_Riff]

I loved most if it and really think it's underrated overall. There was some lame storylines and some overacting but you're right about it being too Nucky centric that was just getting good when it ended. However, it's an epic historical crime drama. Not many series in the genre made better than Boardwalk.

[@edgewiseCL]

It is strange how it is simultaneously a letdown yet somehow underrated

[@Rick_Riff]

@@edgewiseCL yeah, it's hard to explain. I think cineranter explained it well, I absolutely love buscemi but the Nucky arc wasn't very interesting and had too much time in the spotlight.

[@TonyVerrazano]

I am a die hard sopranos fan... but I love love boardwalk empire. Both based on New Jersey and both based on the Mob world (although boardwalk a little more historically accurate) and myself being a Sicilian descendant and a lifelong resident of New Jersey...(some people will crucify me) I think Boardwalk was just as good. One of the best shows ever on TV. The actors did a brilliant job and I'll take Nucky over Tony B any day of the week.

[@Ishbikes]

They’ll only thrown insults your way if they haven’t seen the show. The reality is, the show could’ve actually been better than Sopranos if they were allowed to continue with the budget.

[@BlackHowl1]

I think in a lot of respects it is demonstrably better than Sopranos. The performances probably being the most obvious. There are some legendary turns in Sopranos as well of course, but there's A LOT of hammy nonsense too if we're honest with ourselves. Boardwalk is wall to wall impeccable acting.

[@jluchette]

Boardwalk so beautifully shot it’s worth watching just to be transported to that era. The acting was absolutely phenomenal. It was originally intended to span the entire prohibition era when HBO pulled the plug. I wouldn’t blame the writers or show runners or anyone but the network execs. If the writers et al. had KNOWN from the beginning they would only have five seasons, the pacing would’ve been different. We were robbed of another three (five? Can’t remember) years of BE. Your criticisms are all valid, but blame the bigwigs at HBO for its abrupt end. It was a story that was never intended to be told in only five seasons.

[@Ar1AnX1x]

yeah it did feel empty, it had amazing scenes but as a whole and when it comes to meaning and the point to the writing? it doesn't go anywhere 80% of the times, it specially felt empty after Jimmy dies at the end of Season 2

[@KH-ow7hc]

Not really

[@vaughnalston3009]

This video is why I value your opinion on these shows. Always honest and you have no problem frustrating your audience at times. It makes your analysis authentic

[@WildBillHickums]

The show was almost completely worth watching simply for Gyp Rosetti. What a powerhouse of a character.

[@nihilai]

Fuck yeah!

[@Terelon]

No, he got on my nerves, an overacting mess!

[@davidescristofaros2241]

@@Terelon initially I too thought he was a "overreacted" character, but as season 3 progresses you come to understand the guy is actually insane, so he's not overreacting a "mafia guy", he's literally playing the character of a deeply unstable man, and overral I think it fits well.

[@johnmurdoch8534]

He sucked ..ruined the show for me. Cringed everytime he was on screen.

[@blackfox4138]

The thing I like about Boardwalk is how it caputers the feeling of a transitionary period. Where singular men of power rise up and take over these untapped markets are starting to go by the wayside for a more organized corporation. Luciano's story of starting from humble beginings to becoming the father of La Cosa Nostra should've been more prominent. It felt like the story took too much time finding its stride that by the time it really found the subject matter it wanted to focus on, it was already over.

[@natedogg890]

I think the point of lacking ambition is spot on, Boardwalk felt like it was just going through the motions of a gangster show without really having anything to say. The gangster genre is somewhat about power fantasies but it's really about the American Dream and the pursuit of it, these showrunners didnt really understand that

[@michaelotis223]

This! No cap!

[@Buttsley1]

Yeah it was definitely a fun show to watch but it doesn’t have any core message, just cool scenes with 1920s gangsters killing each other as well as the aftermaths of those killings lol

[@kurthellis]

to your point about and beyond power fantasy....a good mob movie needs to be FUN! more than violence i think stuff like Casino, Goodfellas, Sopranos ect resonates particularly with males because it's cool bros hanging out being bros...friendship. It's like boys hanging out smoking and gambling and joking until 3am while their goomah at the hotel awaits. to be doing that as a 50 year old man appeals to the inner kid. Like Pinocchio going to that boys island as an adult.

[@nothingissimplewithlloyd]

I think they just didn’t care. The show was sold as a gimmick, like The Untouchables the series, and it never rose above that.

[@Ishbikes]

@@nothingissimplewithlloydthey did care, characters were getting developed. It had beautiful quotes, & beautiful writing. The budget is what killed the show..

[@mariarohmer2374]

I enjoyed BE the first time around. I found it gripping, well acted, funny, sad, clever. All the great things. Then a couple years ago when I got the HBO/Max app I decided to watch it all again. I found it just as good if not better. From Gillian to James, and everyone's tragic story, the trauma and sadness was kind of overwhelming. During my first watch I was judging and hating everyone's bad or evil behavior. In this second watch I felt more sympathetic and honestly it was harder to watch. I had to take a lot of breaks to regroup and steel myself. It's a brilliant show. I loved it. I wished Nucky could've lived but I totally understand why he had to die, from a writer's POV.

[@DSPHistoricalSociety]

AMEN BROTHER! CRITICISM COME EASY...

[@ronthorn3]

Everyone dies, we all die.

[@mariarohmer2374]

@Berserk096-z6v Absolutely. She was a hard character to watch. So many emotions and reactions from hate to compassion. But they got it right for all the reasons you stated. What happens to a person who's life is stolen from them. Then the abuse and dissociation from her body. There is no there there. It;s just survival, then an obsessive amount of control to make up for all the years of having no control. Hard to watch because it's very true to life. What happens to a lost soul.

[@adamweisshaup]

The fact that this show is so rarely mentioned, memed or quoted confirms the premise of this video

[@JayCity10]

It doesn't confirm anything. For people react to, or remember mediocrity. That's confirmed. This brilliant show, wasn't that. You can call it rushed though. However, it was memorable, particularly the characters and their stories.

[@giovannifitzpatrick1987]

Boardwalk Empire is in my top 5 greatest shows of all time, but I'd argue that there's one reason why it's not mentioned as often as some shows of its era: history. That is, many viewers simply lack the historical wherewithal to connect with a show that's so deeply steeped in a history that, especially in the earlier seasons, is basically unknown to a wider audience. Even with the show diverting from history a great deal, the earlier seasons were very much "in the weeds", even with the backdrop of Prohibition and the Roaring 20s, you're still talking an time periods that people know thematically, but not historically. Because of that, once you've gotten past the veneer of the themes, you're solely left with a very particular story about people, historical or not, that you simply don't know, in a time period incredibly distant from your own. With a show like Breaking Bad, it benefits by not being historical. People in general more easily connect with things of their time period than things prior or beyond, so you don't require the additional intellectual heft of conveying the historical aspects. With a show like Mad Men, while it was historical, the fundamental narrative wasn't at all dependent on the historicity of the characters and subject matter. People don't need to know or understand who created the Lucky Strike adverts, or how crazy the real-life Conrad Hilton was, or even how significant the JFK assassination was to the average American regardless of political persuasion. The history was a veneer and a backdrop meant to evoke a certain feeling, nothing more, nothing less. Boardwalk Empire, conversely, was strongly tied to its history (which only got magnified in later seasons). It's telling that, as seasons passed, you saw the introduction of more historical persons who would immediately garner attention from an audience. I could count on one hand the amount of non-historians who would know who Enoch Johnson was, but Al Capone is inarguably the most well-known gangster of all-time. We might connect emotionally to a Jimmy Darmody or a Richard Harrow, but our eyes widen and our ears perk up when we see a portrayal of a Lucky Luciano or Meyer Lansky. However, because of that, it's indelibly tied to the history so much that it often loses out on the emotional connection you get with characters who are fictional. That is to say, one of the benefits of a narrative featuring wholly fictional characters is that the audience don't enter with any preconceived notions or expectations about how that character is supposed to be. There is no real Walter White or Don Draper that we have a reference point; however, people know and have expectations of how an Al Capone or a Lucky Luciano or a Meyer Lasnky (to admittedly varying degrees) should be. Because of that, you lose a bit of the emotional connection that is necessary for a show to be truly remembered in the annals of time. Think about this: when you ask the average person to name what they think are the best shows of all time, I'd argue that most of those answers would be shows that are 1. Not historical and/or 2. If historical, the character(s) we follow aren't historical figures (and perhaps more apt, not well-known historical figures). A historical narrative, even if it's a majority fictional one, will always result in somewhat of an emotional disconnect, because the historicity of the narrative necessitates an intellectual understanding before you get to the emotional connection with the characters. If you say that character A, B, and C are facsimiles of their historical selves, you place a demand upon the audience to know and understand the historical selves (regardless of whether these historical peoples are well-known or essentially anonymous). To reference a recently-ended phenomenon of a show, imagine if Succession, instead of being a veiled reference to the Murdoch, Maxwell, Black, and Trump families (to varying degrees, with the Murdochs being most prominent), was a historical docudrama of the Murdochs. There's undoubtedly enough history within that family and their dealings to warrant 4 seasons of absolutely gripping television, but would it have the emotional pull of the Succession we got? No, because the historicity requires a splitting of our intellectual and emotional attentions. The show works because of the plausability of the absurdity, and the fact we can impart whatever we feel to the characters because of their fictional nature. So, Boardwalk Empire, being a historical (or quasi-historical) show was always going to be limited in terms of its long-term lasting evocative feelings. Frankly put, no historical show can ever reach those heights of emotion, because you're either constrained by the history (and thus the build will always result in a rather tepid crescendo), or you veer so far from the history that you either piss off people who are watching for the history, or you raise the question of why not go fully fictional. This is also why historical narratives tend to be more evocative in movies, because it's simply easier to capture and hold the emotional attention of an audience for 2-3 hours than it is for 5+ seasons over a comparable number of years. It's why you have a host of memorable movies surrounding JFK, but almost no shows of quality about him. It's why Saving Private Ryan is more loved and remembored than Band of Brothers.

[@adamweisshaup]

@giovannifitzpatrick1987 Hang on, if I'm summarising your essay accurately, your salient point is that people don't connect with the show because of its anchor to history? So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the masses would wilfully not watch an entertaining show because of history? Do you want to think that one over? Because to me, it seems a bit silly. The. Show. Was. BORING. It lacks charm, character and somehow makes itself even more dour than The Wire but has none of the shows intelligence and wit. We're all fans of gangster shows here, just not shit ones.

[@giovannifitzpatrick1987]

@@adamweisshaup You've misunderstood what I'm saying. My point is that shows which are heavily tied to actual history tend to be less entertaining (to a wider audience) than shows which are wholly fictional, because of the limitations of the historical narrative. Instead of crafting a wholly fictional story you want, you're now constrained (to various extents) by the actual history. The extent of that constraint can be very tight (with a show such as John Adams, also on HBO) or it can be very loose, to the degree of now being alt-history (the Man in the High Tower or Godfather of Harlem). To that point, if the history isn't particularly thrilling on its own, a show that stays too close to the history can be a brilliant show, just not particularly entertaining. No different than the fact that many people would gladly pay $15 to see an epic superhero movie, but won't do the same for an out-and-out documentary of a historical event, or even a biopic of a historical figure unless the activity surrounding that figure was thrilling in and of itself. I'm a history buff, so I loved the show even though they made narrative choices that we incredibly ahistorical solely out of a desire to be more entertaining for people who might not know, nor care, about the history. I didn't find it particularly boring, and while I can't say for certain your range of tastes, perhaps mine is a bit more expansive as the differences between Boardwalk Empire and The Wire are significant enough to warrant a requisite change in expectations for what you're going to get from the narrative. Hell, the two seasons that people tend to like the least about The Wire (seasons 2 and 5) are the two seasons where the plot shifts focus to more mundane areas of life that require a bit more knowledge and understanding to "get" why they're interesting (longshore and stevedore politics, and newsrooom/journalism business).

[@raymondsims7042]

@@giovannifitzpatrick1987I respect your opinion and boardwalk empire was definitely good, but imo it’s nowhere near top 5 level good. For me it’s top 25-30 best series I’ve watched.

[@cicero2410]

It sounds like one of the central problems that bogged BE down was Michael Pitt. Him being such a problem (wouldn't film his scenes with most co-stars) likely forced them to change direction, which deprived the show of its most interesting character and damaged the product, before and after. The show was briefly rescued by the sheer screen-chewing presence of Bobby Cannavale as Gyp Rosetti - before killing him off, too! So, in three seasons, it went from "Must Watch" to "Can Skip" TV, and that is a crying shame.

[@Ishbikes]

There was a war, Gyp had to go. There was no way he was going to continue to live, if Nucky didn’t kill him..Joe would’ve. If Joe didn’t kill him, Lucky would’ve killed him when they killed Joe..or maybe even before. Definitely would’ve liked if it was Lucky & Meya to kill him, a little war in New York. That’s not what I got though 🤷🏾‍♂️🍷

[@miekgg]

@@Ishbikesthere was supposed to be that war in the new york implemented to the ornginal 16 episode s5… so disappointing bruh

[@miekgg]

@@Ishbikesat least they made a good choice by putting all their money into s4 of game of thrones instead of this

[@johnny_thunder_3024]

My problem was that ALL the characters(except Margaret ofc but she's not that exciting either of course) were essentially the same, "greedy gangster who's constantly cracking wise", look at the Sopranos, you had very different and complex characters with complex motivations, you had psychos like Richie, Junior who had lived a life of resentment first for his younger brother then for his nephew, sadistic Ralph, survivor Paulie, Christopher who wanted to step up so bad that he killed a guy, never recovered from it, took up drugs and it eventually lead to his own death, and Tony Soprano, one of the best characters in TV history, even the more "side" characters like Carmella, AJ, Meadow, dr Melfi, Patsi, Livia, Svetlana, etc all had so much personality in them, whereas most of the time characters in Boardwalk felt just like functions, moving figures instead of people, they didn't even talk like real people do, the only exceptions for that are probably Van Alden and Al Capone, but like the minute I saw Rosetti on screen in s3e1 I was like "so that's our villain of the week, who's function is to look intimidating in a couple of scenes then die", and when I saw Narcisse in the next season I didn't even bother with him that much, just was surprised when he didn't die in the end

[@travismiles5885]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but I was invested in the show for a few reasons one I'm a veteren so I felt a connection to Jimmy and Richard. That scene when Richard ask Jimmy if he would fight for him and Jimmy replies to the last bullet always chokes me up. They were more than partners in crime, they were brothers. Something civilians will never understand. My great grandfather's during that time in history were on opposite sides of the law. My great-grandfather on my dad's side was a bootlegger running booze from Canada to Michigan across the Saint Clair River and my great-grandfather on my mom's side was a police officer who happened to have been kidnapped by the Purple Gang which Al Capone refers to in the show as the Jews in Detroit. They let my great-grandfather go because as you know kidnapping a cop brings way too much heat

[@intelligencelimited2708]

Is Jimmy's loyalty to Richard to the last bullet sincere, though? I always felt that exchange was laden with the possibility it wasn't.

[@Ishbikes]

@@intelligencelimited2708yes. That’s why he didn’t have him come to his death. Or possibly just have Harold snipe everyone there. So yes, Jimmy was indeed loyal.

[@intelligencelimited2708]

​@@Ishbikes Harold? Who dat? if there isn't ambivalence or self-centreness in Jimmy, then why does Richard ask the question in the first place? The line is put there for a reason. I'm not saying there isn't any bond between them, but it's a question of degree. Really, they don't know each other that well, it's not a long term association and it's a friendship that's never been tested. They didn't serve together. And wannabee mobsters aren't famous for their undying loyalty. If I was Richard, I would ask the same question.

[@Ishbikes]

@@intelligencelimited2708 Man, you know I meant Harrow. Richard Harrow..

[@Ishbikes]

@@intelligencelimited2708 they had LOYALTY. “They didn’t know each For that long.” Yet Richard asked Jimmy fight with him. Jimmy responded “right down to the last bullet.” They were veterans, they were brothers. You need to watch the show again

[@camberweller]

Let's not forget the fact that the show was one of the most cancerously depressing watches on serialized TV. It had few if any moments of levity or humor even joy. It embodied despair, darkness, corruption and a sense that no one will ever see the light again. So, no surprise that people don't go back to it: how many people do you know who have kicked clinical depression who want to go back for a re-live?

[@KH-ow7hc]

I rewatched it 2 or 3 times with friends and I enjoy it every time. The acting top notch

[@DizzyDaDon]

I absolutely LOVED Boardwalk Empire, I’ve watched it front to back maybe 5x but I do agree they could’ve did more • the 1929 St. Valentines Day Massacre which lives in infamy in mob history as Al Capone wipes out the rest of Dean O’Banions North Side gang, also Capone wiping out the reputable Genna Brothers, Arnold Rothsteins death, Frankie Yales death, Capone literally whacking Albert Anselmi & John Scalise (2 of the men that killed Dean O’Banion) w/ a baseball bat which is shown in The Untouchables & of course not going deeper into the 1930s-40s with Lucky and the commission. So much promise, so many things they could’ve did with 1 or 2 extra seasons OR a spin-off

[@edgewiseCL]

Like ranter said man the possibilities were endless...you could even branch out into public enemies territory since Baby Face Nelson and other depression era outlaws had encounters or were employed by members of the National Crime Syndicate.

[@DizzyDaDon]

@@edgewiseCL maaaaan that’s brilliant. I couldn’t write out all of the probable directions they could’ve explored but they missed out big time

[@edgewiseCL]

@@DizzyDaDon sadly true

[@flightofthekingfisher9766]

I think you nailed it, the ending felt very compressed and rushed. It sometimes felt like storylines ended just to end them, whether or not it made sense.

[@ghani666]

I felt the same way you do about Nucky for the first 4 seasons, but one of the reasons I think S5 is so underrated is specifically because they FINALLY made Nucky an interesting character. I didn't need all the flashbacks, to be fair. But the way his story ends is so perfect because it returns to his original sin: he essentially sold a child into sex slavery. All of the terrible things he did as a gangster weren't his undoing, it was a single deed he committed as a politician, long before he established his criminal empire. All of the people he killed, the damage he caused as a kingpin...none of it amounts to the evil he inflicted on Gillian Darmody decades ago. The evil that ultimately led to the destruction of the entire Darmody family. I understand some people feel like S5 was anticlimactic (and I get that) but in terms of character writing, I was really impressed that the show never lost sight of who and what Nucky really is deep down.

[@JamesJones-jb3vx]

It was a show about the loss of innocence. America lost its innocence in prohibition. We watched all the characters lose theirs. In the last season we saw how Nucky lost his years before. First time I watched it, I didn't get it. It was people who were broken by the loss of their innocence and the aftermath.

[@adamsmith7058]

Because they were really innocent when they were killing the native population, getting rich from the slave trade, being ruled over by uber corrupt city bosses like Boss Tweed, having terf wars between street gangs that lasted days or even weeks, creating monopoly capitalists like the Rockefellers, who'd make Jeff Bezos look good, shooting striking miners, selling orphaned kids through baby farms and sometimes just keeping the money the state gave them for those kids and secretly killing them and lot more heinous stuff that I'd get into if it wasn't late and I needed to sleep. Please, just for once, could we leave all the, "there were innocent times, before insert X date or incident", prelapsarian delusion behind? There was never a more innocent time. Just times that were really bad or times that were worse than that. Also, Nucky lost his innocence during Prohibition? The guy was a corrupt politician who got fast tracked into a lucrative and powerful position because he put a young orphaned girl into the clutches of a powerful p*e*o. That guy was the least innocent of the lot.

[@snuffthisrooster7043]

I feel a similar way about Peaky Blinders. I really.enkoy it in alot of ways but at times it feels hollow.

[@Ar1AnX1x]

I think Peaky is supposed to be a really cool and fun show to watch, as opposed to be a deep meaningful piece of Art and Writing, I thought the best they did was those slowmotion montages where they're walking or something is about to happen with great choice of music in the background, or their Climax Scenes like the Season 2 Finale with that dude getting shot the first 2 Seasons were the peak of it I think personally

[@natedogg890]

I think that, unlike shows like Sopranos or Breaking Bad, Blinders and Boardwalk didn't really have an overarching vision or something they really wanted to say. It leaned a bit too far into the power fantasy of being a gangster, instead of something more profound

[@Ar1AnX1x]

@@natedogg890 damn that's the phrase I was looking for and couldn't find it, 'over-arching vision', certain points and meaning that the writer is trying to give the viewer, these two shows lack that, which they are not required to do but it disqualifies them from being considered to have 'great writing'.

[@poooopy7389]

My only issue was that Rothstein died off screen, such a good character, the least they could do was a flashback scene of his death

[@mattf666]

Sopranos is a hangout show, you can put it on and feel like you’re hanging out with the characters, while Boardwalk is big , loud, and bombastic like the 1920’s.

[@MK-yv7jn]

Things I didn't like with Boardwalk: 1. Buscemi wasn't the best fit as Nucky. 2. Wasn't sure if it was meant to be historically accurate. Rothstein was very historically accurate but IDK about these other guys. 3. Production kinda felt cheap. Compare the sets to Peaky Blinders. 4. Main character was a headcase and had to be kicked off the show early. 5. Same issues with funding and seasons being clipped as Deadwood. Ultimately ended up getting more Deadwood vibes from this show than Sopranos or the Wire. Still I liked the historical aspect of the show.

[@xennialsavants8226]

It was a really good show. I didn't particularly like the inaccuracies like Nucky getting killed and I felt they always killed people too soon. I mean Chalky White was an awesome character and to just have him let Narcisse win and be executed was a downer. Harrow as well, I felt there needed to be another scene with him and the boy. It was so much that could've been done but left undone. I like the idea of continuing the series to the present day. That would've been amazing with the whole Kennedy arc

[@sidetrippingwithcary]

Very nice analysis. I totally get where you were coming from re: Nucky “required” to be the central character. I remember wanting to see where Lucky Luciano, Meyer Lansky and Ben “Bugsy” Siegel, wound up. I remember being upset when HBO announced that Season 5 would be the final season. A real tragedy. They could’ve done SO much with it…

[@nikkicole3331]

These are historical figures; research them. Focusing the story on a fictional gangster allowed the writers to explore, stretch, challenge and imagine more than they could have done if the series was based on an actual person. This way, Nucky was several characters rolled into one. Steve Buscemi was FAB!

[@HOTD108_]

Agree 100%. I like the show, but it just has so much wasted potential. There are a lot of individual moments of greatness, and some the characters are extremely compelling, but so much of it was just okay and the best characters have very little screentime in comparison to the less interesting ones. I think the flashbacks with Nucky in season 5 should have happened back in season 1, because prior to those scenes Nucky is kind of a dull character who lacks humanization, and all that backstory was just too little too late.

[@blaqlionkinggamingtv]

Rest In Peace... Michael K. Williams aka Chalky White 💯

[@raymondsims7042]

He was excellent in both the wire and boardwalk empire

[@nicholasbauserman7276]

I think after they killed Michael Pitts character off it went to crap.

[@luhbrax3746]

HBO is known for having great shows w huge fan base and then they get canceled and give them one last season and they rush it and throw it away smh. Such a great network but so many huge mistakes. “Heavy is the head that wears the crown”

[@bucksdiaryfan]

I"ve disagreed with you in the past, but not to the extent I do today. It wasn't supposed to be The Sopranos, but The Office wasn't meant to be Curb Your Enthusiasm, and each are outstanding in their own way. The same holds for Boardwalk Empire and The Sopranos.

[@darrylolsen9519]

First time I've ever disagreed with a video of yours, my dude. I just finished watching the whole thing a couple weeks ago. It became a binging obsession and I hope you do sit down to watch it again. You mentioned the sumptuous visuals and production values so I won't go on. I will say that Boardwalk has fantastic writing. Every season is like a good novel and I think they all end - even Season 5 - in a very satisfying manner. I think all of the actors did a great job and I think Nucky Thompson is a compelling gangster; breaking the mold in some places, reinforcing it in others. As structured and well laid out as the stories are there is also a thread of chaos that runs through all the character's lives and this very much a Soprano's style 'who can think of everything' type of vibe. It's a perfect way to throw curveballs into a gangster story as already proven in The Sopranos. Finally I want to say that at first I didn't like the flashbacks in Season 5. I thought 'we already have been told these stories.' The thing is the flashback story got more and more compelling. It gave Season 5 its 'full circle' moment. I didn't even know the show was cancelled! If so then I think it's all the more impressive the way it all went down.

[@torque9889]

You should watch Peaky Blinders, it does deliver most of the way. The last season was its weakest unfortunately, trying to appeal to the American market too much but it still holds up. And watching the rise of a man from nothing to basically a king is a masterpiece of television to behold. It’s like what Boardwalk wanted to be but actually delivers.

[@Vis1786]

The last series was the second best beat by only series 5

[@tommyp7933]

I feel the opposite, the last two series have been awful, and cartoonish. Compare the complex, interesting character of Inspector Campbell with the latest villain, who is just Girl Hitler. It’s now a show that rests entirely on its costume department

[@Vis1786]

@ Campbell isn’t representative. The show is chock full of cartoon villains and caricatures, and has been from the very beginning which is part of its charm. Series 5 and 6 is where the cinematography, dialogue, and Tommy’s character are unequivocally at their best

[@charlesfcopeland9756]

Perhaps the shows progression of Nucky should have put more emphasis on the Nucky becoming the person he originally hated the most, the Commodore. This would have "backseated" Nucky in follow up season ideas making other characters take more of the spotlight. HBO pulled the plug with the final season thus ruining anything that could have followed.

[@joeyd3781]

The beauty of the show is that it’s not just “The Al Capone show”. There’s fictional characters intertwined with real life known mobsters that create an immersive world.

[@Ckristianos]

Interesting thing is, that it was my first prestige tv series, which I watched weekly on TV, when it was over I watched Breaking Bad and after that I found a series about a certain New Jersey crime boss.

[@Coolcoolcoolcoo]

One of the other things that really lacked impact was Buscemi's performance honestly. I like him in many things but his acting was so one-note in Boardwalk Empire that his character just didn't seem all that complex or interesting. That once face he pulls where he purses his lips and raises his eyebrows was seemingly his go-to for every emotion from pride to intense anger. Honestly I remember him pulling it so often I started to roll my eyes whenever he did it.

[@GWAANTotherocket]

i've watched BE 10 year after the finale and i must say, while i felt underwhelmed when i watched it 10 years ago, but now the series really felt complete. a really good show. The introspective perspective of the last season really grew on me on this second watch. season 1: very good ⭐⭐⭐ season 2: top cinema good ⭐⭐⭐⭐ season 3: exceptional cinema ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ season 4: ok ⭐⭐ season 5: very good. ⭐⭐⭐ that are my ratings per season

[@DarkAgeDan]

I feel like boardwalk Empire had too much going on at the same time toward the and what's just reintroducing characters that have already made their mark. Killing off Jimmy way too early after that it became too predictable that they would have a main villan every season.

[@nothingissimplewithlloyd]

The problem with this show is that it’s not about anything. Ultimately it never rises above the gimmick.

[@MrSamPhoenix]

I truly loved the series. The last season was a bit confusing, but the last seasons made up for it.

[@redblackandgreen]

I think Boardwalk Empire is in the same category as Oz, Saprranos, and The Wire. It's not just entertaining but part history lesson.

[@toasty2324]

So many incredible shows get ruined and unfinished. Why do these bohemoth companies seemingly rarely every finish what they started, they have near infinit budgets. The pain of these unfinished showes is so real man.

[@RedPapaG]

SPOILERS BELOW The show took a wrong turn when they killed Jimmy and left Nucky alive. Massive error and the show never really recovered, for me at least.

[@gregoryporch8395]

The first 2 seasons of Boardwalk Empire were better than seasons after. Gyp Rosetti was an interesting villain for a minute or two until you realize he's more based on a Roman Emperor than any real-life bootlegger in 1922. Chicago's storyline did much more to keep the later seasons going than Nucky's arc, but as a guy who grew up watching Adam Sandler movies with Steve Bucemi as a side character I enjoyed watching him take the lead as a politician who controls all these strings surrounding Prohibition.

[@Eltumbacabezas]

Boardwalk empire is probably the most realistic show with real mobsters from back in the day. More realistic than the sopranos, the wire, and breaking bad.

[@arman_1024]

I agree that there is a very odd lack of legacy and long-term interest for the show. It’s disappointing because I loved this show and think about it quite often.

[@automaticmattywhack1470]

I think the creators did the best they could with their budget and time/season constraints. Your criticisms (like usual) are fair, well reasoned, and honest. Sometimes I think they were going more for a 1920s atmosphere/look/feel rather than making the story and characters better. For the most part I do agree with you.

[@san_poil_indian]

Boardwalk Empire never disappointed me. CineRanter consistently disappoints.

[@brandtrey1]

Great points. As much as I loved this show, making Nucky the main character and central figure of the show and not wavering from that ethos for 5 Seasons was the ultimate reason I think many fans feel the same way as you. Historically speaking, when you essentially "cliff note" the rise of the two most legendary gangsters in American history - Luciano and Capone- and instead choose to focus on a MUCH lesser known Jersey "fixer", it's only natural that fans of the era were going to ultimately be let down. The fact that the overall show was as interesting as it was bows almost completely to the writing and performances of the side characters through the seasons - Chalky, Gyp, Harrow- just to name a few. Still a great show, and several memorable scenes and great performances, but, in essence, the bread could never fully rise because the basic yeast simply wasn't good enough.

[@papichefitup]

The actor who played Lucky Luciano was amazing

[@patrickrichardson2518]

I think your assessment is pretty much spot on. There were times when I really had to force myself to pay attention to this show, or even go back and rewatch an episode or 2 when I suddenly realized I had no clue what was going on or why. You hit the nail on the head in particular in saying that a) Nucky wasn't a terribly interesting character and b) Buscemi probably wasn't an ideal choice for the role. The show continually remained hyperfocused on characters with limited narrative value, at times fixating on the most banal aspects of their lives, while either speedrunning or sidelining more interesting personas like Capone or Chalky or Van Alden. When it comes to Buscemi playing this cool and composed yet ultimately merciless and unforgiving mob boss, well, it's just not his bag. He doesn't have the looks, the stature, or the charisma that would elevate Nucky's bland on-paper presence. Buscemi is at his best when he's emotional, dark, unhinged. You can't really put him on a leash - restraint is not where he excels. The whole quiet, methodical crime boss thing is just outside his wheelhouse. There are a lot of great moments in Boardwalk Empire, they just don't ever really culminate in any sort of payoff, not to mention the lengthy and often complicated mundanity between these great moments. I also think the show had a relatability problem. One of the reasons we get sucked into things like Breaking Bad or Goodfellas or the Sopranos is because many characters have relatable emotions. This leads to some degree of sympathy which then leads to a certain degree of conflict as the "bad guy" gets his/her comeuppance. I don't know if it's perhaps it's because it's a period-piece or what, but Boardwalk Empire NEVER struck an emotional chord with me, at least not.

[@filmreviewer117]

First three seasons are brilliantly written. Four is still good but wasn't really building to something. Five deliveries a strong ending for Nucky's story but as a season is rushed. Given how in the big montage they went and reused old scenes.

[@JayCity10]

7/10 then, which is still a very good show. Season 5, us my favorite season. Loved Nucky's downfall and backstory.

[@abriaangel]

I watched this show after it ended and I totally agree, it felt too rushed and not fleshed out enough. I would've loved a storyline revolving around Rothstein, Capone and Lucky Luciano.

[@danorourke1585]

This show holds a special place in my heart watched it in the beginning of this year going through a lot of medical problems and a lot of free time at home my grandma and I would watch episodes back to back but after the final season we felt disappointed like you said the last season felt so rushed

[@cjdayne3033]

The casting and the writing made the show as good as it was. I agree it was a little disappointing given all the subject matter they had to work with.

[@Coolcoolcoolcoo]

I watched this show a few years ago so my memory isn't that fresh but I distinctly remember the show getting worse and worse as the seasons went on. It felt like the show's writing was getting less "smart", not outright stupid, just not smart.

[@encoreunefois1X]

Just about to begin season 5 of my 3rd time around. I find myself agreeing with everything you say about Boardwalk, but I could never articulate it the way you can. Graham, Canavale and Shannon were remendous but ultimately it almost feels as though they were wasted in it. Actually it seems unfair to single them out as there were fine performances all over the place. Michaels Stuhlberg and Williams for heaven's sake!! Awesome! A missed opportunity if ever there was one. Still I'm glad we at least have this imperfect rendition, which still has much going for it. Loved Deadwood. Such a pity it was so short lived.

[@MrRickstopher]

Thank you, I’ve always wondered why I didn’t like this show when I felt like I very much should have.

[@KingBluetooth66]

I loved the show but i always said that the side characters were much more interesting than nucky

[@1983metsfan]

I felt the final 2 seasons were unwatchable. Also Jimmy was killed off not for story purposes but for internal purposes

[@JayCity10]

Season 4 was good. I loved season 5 though. Nucky's downfall was brilliant.

[@ceartais65]

"Season 1", I seen that movie two hundred times. "Season II" was definitely the sh*t. The last one... A lot of people didn't like it. But I think it was just misunderstood.

[@KMacMerlin]

I feel you on this as much as I loved it. Greatest missed potential imo was Carnivale. They had 6 seasons planned and mapped out and we only got 2

[@varicosevaynes]

This show had a very strong beginning, but it got almost cartoonish with the violence as it went on. A lot of the characters were memorable and grounded, but a few, (mainly Gyp Rosetti), just made the show seem silly at times. The rushed ending also didn’t help. Such a sad waste of potential and good actors.

[@brendanfechter4889]

Rank the following Ill do mine 1.Succession 2 Rome 3.The Wire 4.The Sopranos 5.Deadwood 6.Black Sails 7.Spartacus 8.Game of Thrones 9.Power 10.The Deuce 11.The Tudors 12. House of the Dragon 13.Big Little Lies 14.Westworld (because after season 2 its a joke) 15.True Blood

[@toryschwenk5351]

This series was stellar and even as good as the Sopranos. Truly phenomenal

[@Phoolery]

Boardwalk certainly isn’t up to snuff alongside most of HBO’s classics. However it is soundly solid a series.

[@raymondsims7042]

Agreed

[@Veed.l0]

It's still a great show, but like you said; was constrained by outside factors after the concise first 3 seasons.

[@dwbkmj]

It become a spectacle and had too many plots and threads. Some of which didn’t lead to a satisfying conclusion. It was just simply a disappointment with such great characters.

[@novachikun]

This habit of hbo killing off great shows started way back with Deadwood. HBO kills a show whenever ratings show any sign of a slump, which makes the conclusions of these shows feel supremely rushed and disappointing

[@newlion7013]

AWESOME SHOW GREAT CASTING! THE KNOX, ROSSETI, MASSERIA, CAPONE, CHALKY, LUCIANO NARCISSE, & ROTHSTEIN CHARACTERS WERE AT ANOTHER LEVEL

[@burtgordon4796]

Boardwalk Empire was great for a while but once they killed Jimmy in my opinion it slowly devolved to boredom. Despite Steve Bushemi’s best efforts I always felt he was miscast. He was pretty lame once the surrounding great characters were killed off. I never watched the last season. Nucky was lame. Jimmy and Richard were the stars.

[@JMoruzzi]

I could only take one season of it. Buscemi was totally miscast. The role required a man with a convincingly sexy charisma. Now, of course Buscemi is very famous and successful and has in real life been an actual firefighter, but his fame is based around playing weedy little schnurks, weedy little schnurks with ferocious tempers on occasion maybe, but a whole different species from the omni-competent, fearsome and attractive guy Nucky is conceived as being. I always thought that Buscemi seemed as bewildered by his casting as I was.

[@intelligencelimited2708]

The big reveal or the key to the show i.e. Nucky being the instigator of Gillian as a kid being given to the Commodore-is just thrown away (somewhere in in series 2). ..that info-Nuckys original sin that sets all the other negative events in chain-- should/could have been the thumping climax of the show..as it is, the end is a wet fart.

[@raymondreddington2999]

I whole heartedly agree with your opinion. I’ve watched boardwalk twice and both times I remember feeling the same way. As odd as it may sound I think that it suffered from taking on too much and having too wide a scope without the development of what they had. I think the idea of alternating characters like you said would have been genius, but it felt like they kept adding more to the world with a lack of substance. I hope your second watching goes well!

[@DaxterKing]

The boringness with it having too many characters and too many plot threads, rang very true for me. I just switched it off

[@goodyeoman4534]

Here's where the conversation gets - difficult. Boardwalk Empire? I could care less.

[@leyenda6149]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Even if I disagree. Still love the channel. Still very much entertaining as always

[@fredontiveros1037]

Honestly Board Walk Empire was the shit. The best character was Nelson Van Alden. Best story ark on the show.

[@Makaveli1258]

That animal Blundetto was shoehorned into the storylines

[@mariarohmer2374]

You're nuts if you think you're going to convince me this was not an excellent drama.

[@thechickenslittl1373]

well he doesn't

[@fullonsociopath]

You may have thought Steve Buscemi was lackluster, but that is what I thought of the person that played Luciano. He just never felt right to me. Rothstein having no on screen end was inexcusable. Way too much time was spent on Margaret. The end of Nucky felt forced, and really made no sense. The bright light of the show was Richard Harrow. The man stole every scene, and was a force to be reckoned with. His ending was one of the best moments, unlike Chalky, or Jimmy.

[@mojothehelpermonkey1176]

The first 3 seasons are amazing. The mob war at the end of 3 is one of the best things I’ve ever seen on tv.

[@sw33tialucard]

Hell no, I disagree. This was one of the best tv shows I’d ever seen, except the last season which was very rushed and that was the disappointment.

[@raymondsims7042]

I agree it’s one of the best shows ever but I wouldn’t say like top ten or top 15. I have it somewhere in my top 30 best series I’ve watched though.