Why you should NEVER buy hammer bullets!

[@edbredemeyer2833]

I don't care one way or the other--but I will say I have killed a lot of stuff with a hammer. I do not shoot much "gel" and shoot more game. They work.

[@rogerpayne1490]

I’ve been hunting big game for over 50 years now. There are a lot of good bullets out there now days. I’ve tried a lot of them and can honestly say hammer Bullets are one of the best I’ve used. Not to mention there available. I just completed my 3rd African Safari and used Hammers this time. All one shot kills. They hit hard like the good old Nosler partitions, except no lead to contaminate your meat! I would highly recommend them. They are very accurate, penetrate superbly, are always available and literally hit like a hammer. You can also talk to a real person when calling the company for advice!

[@jackdills7795]

I slowed down the mule deer video and I don’t see a problem. The deer is steep 1/4 away. Bullet impacts just ahead of the hind leg, center mass up and down, runs through him and probably exits ahead of the offside shoulder. Every one wants broadside but if I were in the situation I’d most likely stick my bullet in the same spot.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

No it doesn’t if you actually watch you can see the bullet as it moves along the body. At the point of impact by the front shoulder you see dust come off as the bullet impacts. There’s a big difference between a good shot and a bad. They used to teach people that in hunters education. Broadside is nice but not a common shot. There’s a big difference between a good quartering shot and a bad quartering shot. Anything past the back rib into the stomach is a bad shot. Lots of people are too impatient to wait for a good shot and end up taking bad shots. Instead of doing the right thing and waiting for a good shot and if you don’t get one simply not taking the shot. That was a bad shot before it moved and a even worse shot after it moved.

[@jackdills7795]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I actually watched it and that dust is coming off of the hair where it enters just in front of the hind leg.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@jackdills7795no it doesn’t you might want to get your eyes checked. I’ve literally slowed it down in a program and zoomed in. You can clearly see the bullet outside the body and impacts right by the front shoulder not the rear.

[@jackdills7795]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223dude…bro… that’s like you’re opinion man. I’m right and if that bothers you oh well. Just keep beatin that drum, you’ll eventually find others who will march to it.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@jackdills7795no it’s not a opinion it’s fact. I don’t deal in opinions I deal in facts. The bullet enters by the front shoulder not the rear leg.

[@bigeclipse718]

Everyone RUN from this guy. He is known in the shooting world to love his berger bullets. His ballistics test is NOT how these act on game.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

God you hammer cult guys crack me up with how incredibly stupid the lies you guys come up with to try and discredit me. I don’t even run Berger bullets so there’s no way I’m known for loving them. 🤦‍♂️😂

[@bigeclipse718]

@longrangehuntinggroup7223 yeah sure sure. Keep posting buddy. Not a hammer fan boy either. Just started using them 2 years ago but if you go to the longrange hunting forum there is literally 200 pages of pictures of people and their game they shot with hammers. Not one bad incident noted on game animals there. I'll trust that before I trust a youtuber who never even tried them on game lol

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@bigeclipse718 You know I really love it when you guys lie and it’s so easy to prove you wrong. Their hammer terminal ballistics section on the forum is 42 pages not 200 pages. On top of there has been negative reports on that forum. The cult harasses them and Steve gets them banned. A guy not too long ago in that forum pointed out that you don’t see many negative reports in lrh. Yet in different forums and facebook etc you see plenty of negative results. If you go into other forums and places you find people who have had negative reports in lrh and got banned for it by Steve. To claim no negative reports is a flat out lie on your part. One guy gave a report of 4 failures in a row on elk in lrh forum. Steve and you guys just try to discredit whoever says anything negative in the forum and make ridiculous accusations against them. No matter how much you guys lie it doesn’t trump actual evidence. That includes stuff from the cult. There is multiple pictures in that forum showing failures and tumbling bullets. The more Steve lies about never having failures or issues the more customers he loses. Him lying and attacking people makes him loose customers and credibility. Especially since you lied here about being a Berger guy. You are loosing credibility one lie at a time.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@ that was Steve the owner and he had it deleted as soon as someone caught it. He then tried spinning his own story to make himself look better because he believed nobody could see it. Both the guy who sent it to me and I screen recorded it. Steve has a history of deleting things. When he tried lying to make himself look better after having the video pulled I posted it. I have screenshots of him lying too and it clearly shows that he tried covering it up. Then he had the video pulled and tried spinning a false narrative. He’s done shady stuff like this before and it’s amazing how his fan club believes him when he’s been caught lying so many times.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@Fish784-x2x​​⁠yes I’ve seen the video I’m the one who screen recorded it and posted the video when he had it deleted trying to spin a story to try and make himself look better. His story is that he was told he was clear so he shot. That the baby wasn’t discovered until later when they were about to leave. That it was way back in the trees and nobody saw it. Once they noticed it he offered to take responsibility and pay for it. They said that because he’s such a great guy and since he owned up to it that he didn’t have to pay anything. That it was a honest mistake and he wasn’t at fault. Here’s the problem the video he had deleted shows a very different story. He was told that he didn’t have a clear shot. Nobody told him that he was clear to shoot. The ram was surrounded by other rams in a tight bunch. He shot and the ram dropped and all the rest ran off. Then you see a small extra pair of legs in the air just behind the big ram. The baby died right next to the big ram within feet. Now Steve lied saying that it was off in the trees. He lied saying that he was told to shoot that it was clear. The video he walks up and it’s just the big ram and they do the talking. Well the baby died right next to it. So him saying that they found it in the trees after they were leaving is a lie. They went down there and physically moved the baby out of the way. Then went back and filmed him walking up to the ram again to hide it. They didn’t catch the babies legs in the editing or he would have gotten away with it. He lied about everything and tried blaming the guides etc. Here’s the video link for you to watch yourself. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2KniXiwnrV4i7csi=M-stCYqkXWMgtAQn

[@briansupermag3918]

Wow, I love my Hammer bullets in my 7mm. Awesome bullets

[@rickpowshuk3081]

This guy is a jackass,use them in my 7 prc,they are great

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

It is hard to improve on perfection. Barnes TSX and TTSX are basically perfect. Accurate and absolutely deadly. I used to try to find bullets that worked as well as Barnes TSX/TTSX. I have given up. Lead or monometal, nothing beats Barnes. Save yourself time, cost, energy. Buy and load Barnes bullets.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Barnes performance isn’t great and lots of documented failures and issues. That’s why I stopped using them and found far better bullets. For monolithic bullets cavity back bullets and makers are the best I’ve seen. For lead core Berger hybrids, eld match, a tips, amax, TMK’s, etc are all superior.

[@therowdyrue7768]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 Cup and Core bullets suck

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@therowdyrue7768you keep telling yourself that. The evidence and data says otherwise and that’s what I pay attention to.

[@adrianjensen2504]

Never had a good experience with Barnes. Democrat bullets imo

[@mrm5515]

Gotta tell you, my experience with Hammer bullets is very different! Excellent performance on game, easy to work up very accurate loads. I started because they were the only company offering a modern bullet for one my my "odd" rifles, then switched my other rifles as well. Nothing but positive experiences on this end. Maybe if you stayed within ethical ranges you would have better results.

[@mathewwatkins7572]

You clearly have a much better understanding of ballistics then I do if you can watch that mule deer video and tell that what impacted behind that deer was an entire unexpanded bullet. Personally I would have had to actually dig that projectile out of the hillside before I could totally diagnose it’s condition. I might have guess that it could have been one of the petals that broke off of the Hammer bullet and exited. My very limited personal experience with the 90 gr Hammer out of a 25-06 is it penetrated straight through a whitetail buck and I know it expanded because I found a perfect petal shaped fragment under the hide at the exit wound. Distance was 337 yards muzzle velocity was 3585fps.🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Wheelchair-bear]

He must be sponsored by Barnes or something . Look at all these dead deer killed by hammer bullets....... but my gell!

[@MyHuntingJournal]

@@Wheelchair-bear nah, he's actually not a huge fan of Barnes either lol

[@JR-lg7fd]

he's an airsoft boi

[@nksmfamjp7801]

Fan of Barnes…. I am not, if I’m the “he”. I found multiple boxes of LRX’s I bought to have off center tips. They also shot pretty lousy from my gun.

[@Robert-fs1pb]

Someone that thinks everything is going to die on the first shot.Is an irrisponsible hunter.I seen deer and animals and humans that refuse to die.after being shot 10 times With every bullet made.Is it so hard to believe this deer or animals refuse to die after one shot.Oh I'm a one shot Hunter.If it don't kill him with 1shot that the end of hunting for every one in the world cause I'm al Franken and I say so.And every one should follow my advice.Hammer bullets doesn't guarantee one shot kills knowing like every bullet maker.That theirs always a handful of critics that don't like there bullets.when theirillions that are quite satisfied with their performance.If you don't like Hammer bullets then don't tell everyone that does not to.Do like all the other 1 shot wonders do quite looking for bullets that don't exist.

[@ejsmith3383]

I've used Hammers in a couple calibers and they've been great. Why don't you be fair and do a video on how Burgers blow up and under-penetrate?

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I don’t do a video about Bergers blowing up and under penetrating because they don’t do that. Bergers are designed to expand and shed weight as they penetrate giving maximum expansion and energy transfer. They don’t blow up that’s what people with no knowledge about terminal ballistics and bullets say. The under penetration is operator error not the bullet. As long as the bullet is used inside of its operational velocity range it will perform perfectly and have adequate penetration. What you’re describing is the person pushing the bullet above its maximum impact velocity. Even then it won’t blow up. It simply sheds weight rapidly until it runs out of bullet. Again that’s operator error not a bullet issue. The only current problem with a bullet design of bergers is the post 2011 vld line. They changed the design of the vld line and it tends to not expand as well. The rest of the Berger line doesn’t have that issue. Which is why I don’t recommend the vld line to people. That’s something that I have covered before in my videos. I only cover a bullet and label it as bad if it has actually issues with design and performance. Not because someone got bad results from taking the bullet beyond its operational velocity. There is way too much evidence of issues with hammer bullets to be ignored unless you have blinders on.

[@kylemacdonell1450]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 Bahaaaaaa.. Bergers DONT blow up.. That's a joke .. Everybody who has a clue about hunting knows not to use them for HUNTING..

[@dmoncada2734]

The cover up is why you hate hammer so much.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@kylemacdonell1450 that’s a ridiculous claim as Berger bullets are commonly used for hunting and very successfully. The have bullets specifically for hunting including the EOL extreme outer limits. So your claim has no merit.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@dmoncada2734 do you actually read what you wrote before posting? Maybe you should actually learn what a cover up is. Your comment makes zero sense. A cover up is to hide something from being exposed. Like hammer has done countless times and been caught. Like the video where he shot the baby aoudad and then tried hiding the evidence. When it came out he had the video pulled so no one could see it and then tried spinning a story to make himself look better. That’s two different cover ups. They have done the same thing with bullet failures.

[@michaelhoman7355]

199 hammer hunters out of my 300prc seem to work pretty good. Only shot an antelope and blacktail buck with them last year. But the antelope 9 broken ribs and the heart was turned to jelly literally nothing left after punching through one shoulder exiting a few inches behind the other. The blacktail in one shoulder out the other didn’t take a step lungs and heart destroyed. Work fine for me and extremely accurate. Sounds you like you have a personal issue with them?

[@Dcm193]

Range?

[@Wheelchair-bear]

The hammer hunters work great for me on deer and elk, but this guy cares more about ballistics gell performance..... it's not the same.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@Wheelchair-bear except all the evidence of the same thing happening on game. 😉

[@michaelhoman7355]

Idk man killed 2 mule deer bucks at 360 and 330 yards last year with hammer hunters. Both went down in 10ft. Zero meat loss, perfect performance. I have 4 deer tags this year and will use the new 203gr hht hammers 2900fps out of a 22 in suppressed 300prc. I’m expecting stellar results. You just have a personal issue with the owner of hammer it’s obvious.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@michaelhoman7355yeah when owners of a company lie, team up with anti hunters to help destroy hunting, attack people who report issues, refuse to acknowledge issues, etc. Yeah I’m going to not like that as most people would. Even removing the owners the bullets are terrible and have high failure rates. The combination of terrible owners and bad bullets is enough not to recommend them.

[@bobgyetvai9444]

I think your eyeballs are floatin.......

[@Backin_Theday]

I think their bullets are good for punching paper. I also thought it was strange that they give a G7 BC on what is a tangent ogive bullet (92 gr .257) with a short BT. Basically this hides the G1, that would be more applicable to that shape bullet, making it not as easily comparable to other G1 bullets.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yes for a short range paper puncher they seem to do well. I’ve had mixed reviews even on that though. A guy recently gave up using them after he couldn’t get them to shoot in a known shooter of a rifle. Every other bullet drives tact’s but hammer looked like a shotgun blast. He had spent $900 total on hammer bullets not including the other reloading components trying to get them to shoot. Long range they aren’t a good target option because of the low bc’s. They inflate their bc’s in case you’re not aware. A buddy recently was doing load development for a client with several different bullets including hammer. I gave him a heads up about the bc’s etc. I have never seen him get frustrated doing loads until then. The bc ended up being .207 when they claim it’s .285. Being that far off is normal for them and something to be aware of. Honestly though if you’re just going to punch paper there’s far better options for short and long range that are far cheaper. Even if you wanted to go monolithic with more expensive bullets there’s better options like cutting edge or Berger.

[@tomnguyen658]

I love 170 grain on my 7 PRC and 177 grain for my 7 LRM, if you don’t like it , buy a different one.

[@phillip1950]

You sure it's not operator error. They have been amazingly accurate and I have tried several calibers of their bullets and have not had any issues.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Accuracy wasn't the issue it was stable and grouped fine. This problem isn't just hammer bullets with changing directions, penciling, and or tumbling. Also got the same results from another guy who runs them at 850 yards. There's also videos from hammer and others showing the same thing on animals. Their marketing manager actually had two bullets on a hog at 90 yards and both bullets failed to perform as designed.

[@phillip1950]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I have done shots at 1,400 yards and the the target was DRT. Never seen the results you described in multiple calibers and distances in semi or bolt

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

The ability to drop a animal on the spot has to do with shot placement more than anything else. Nobody is saying they don't kill all bullets kill. It's about how effective and reliable they are. There's also bullet designs that are prone to issues. Bthp is one especially with a small hole it's easy to clog. Berger fixed this issue with the hybrids by leaving a massive empty cavity inside the nose of the bullet. On impact it collapses and forces expansion. Hammers being a harder metal are even more prone to it than a lead core like SMK's. Buddy has been hunting with Barnes tsx for years. He just said enough last week after he shot a elk at 200 yards and it changed directions without expansion and went into the guts and out the butt. Second shot penciling through the chest this time going straight but didn't perform. He had to finish it off with a head shot. That was the final straw to stop using them. Other solid manufacturers are open about the issues like Lehigh and makers and design their bullets to reduce the required force to expand by removing material. I've seen way too many failures from hammers in gel and hunting to say they are good or recommend them. Especially after hammer used my feedback to alter videos to hide poor performance and failures. Whatever people use is up to them. I personally won't spend money with a company that has product issues and takes customer feedback to hide issues. Good luck this season hope you're successful

[@REDNECKROOTS]

​@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 well put. I think there junk. Don't always open. So many guys ego are so big . Even if they don't perform up to high standards they make excuses in there mind . Long as animal finally died it worked. But we know better. Might work sometimes. But That won't always be the case w solids. U never Kno what shot will b the one to not open. And I'm not willing to risk a trophy of a lifetime on a hype up , cool sounding named bullet. There shit and unless ur forced to use a monolithic in a cpl states, I don't see the point of them even existing.

[@Wheelchair-bear]

​@@phillip1950It sounds like this LRHG guy, only hunts gell with his limited experience using Hammer Bullets. I have a feeling his anti Hammer bigotry videos will not age well, the company has grown tremendously in a very short time.

[@traviscram1364]

My experience with a 100 gn. Bt shot out of a .243 had a similar outcome. The bullet hit a rib on the way in and came out farther back on the beer than it should have. That was a lead tipped bullet. There is a lot of bone in the area the bullet went through. It does not surprise me that the bullet changed direction. But what if it was a piece of bone coming out or one of the pettles?

[@danielcurtis1434]

I’ve never hunted beer before. I refuse to it just isn’t right. I mean just think of 12 ounce of intoxication going down the drain??? Don’t hunt beer love and respect it!!! The next time you think about abusing your beer, remember there’s sober kids in India that would pay you to lick it off your shoes.

[@travissmith-wz5nc]

Weatherby loads them at the factory and has done 1000s of rounds of testing. Guarantees performance.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Really thousands of rounds of testing? What evidence do you have to support that claim of them testing thousands of rounds? If it’s coming from Steve then it’s clearly a lie. He has a bad habit of exaggerating and lying. Everything from his bc’s and everything else. Like he just claimed that the new tipped version was tested on thousands of animals. Yet Brett who did the testing only claimed 24 animals. Hammer just posted a “list” of every animal killed with hammers and it was only a little over 600 animals. That alone proves that he lied about the numbers of animals tested on. Plus even the list is a lie because it excludes all the bad reports and failures reported to him. Weatherby and hammer is a new partnership and I seriously doubt that they have shot thousands of gel blocks and animals in just a few months. Just like Brett claiming 600 hunting kills in 12 hours or the thousands more he claims to have killed. It’s all just lies and they contradict themselves constantly and prove themselves wrong.

[@Wheelchair-bear]

​@@longrangehuntinggroup7223It's been two years now and they are still loading them. Hammer bullets really like speed; Weatherby produces accurate hunting rifles famous for their speed.

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

guarantees accuracy, not performance. Big difference when relative to hunting bullet.

[@Wheelchair-bear]

​@@JohnSokol-t9dAll of Weatherby's rifles and ammo are intended for hunting. All of Hammer's bullets are hunting bullets. Inferior products don't last long, the same goes for corporations who sell inferior products. Time will tell, but so far, both companies are growing and gaining in popularity.

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

@@Wheelchair-bearjust saying Weatherby guarantees Moa accuracy, not that the animal being shot will die. I haven’t used Hammers, so I am not commenting on their terminal performance.

[@JoeNelson-d5z]

Not only are they extremely accurate but have found to be great game bullets. Seen a lot killed with them with very lethal performance at close to long range.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Accuracy (external ballistics) isn’t relevant in the discussion. The only part of this discussion that has to do with external ballistics is bc. Because the design is poor for bc and they lie and embellish their bc’s which is common knowledge. The problem with them is terminal ballistics with poor performance and failures. There has been a lot of reported failures to Steve. He ignores them, tries blaming anything he can, and or attacks them making false accusations against them. November alone there was around a dozen reported failures that I know of. He even just lost a couple long time customers over them reporting failures. Steve went on the war path attacking long time loyal customers and making false accusations against them. Ultimately they decided that they were done with hammer because of Steve. One guy had 4 failures in a season. He even provided pictures of the failed bullets. They definitely aren’t a good long range hunting bullet.

[@andyeighttre]

Please post your PhD dissertation for ballistics. I’d like to read it. Thank you.

[@QuinnTheSin]

I don’t think this video is aging well. Hammers are hammers. They are essentially a Barnes crossed with a Berger. Petal fragmentation, but with complete pass through. It’s ok for bullet technology to advance

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yeah because the video doesn’t include all the new shady stuff they have done or all the failures and bad performance that has been reported to them that they ignore. Like teaming up with anti hunters and anti gun groups to try and get lead bullets banned. The stalking and harassment of guy’s who have pointed out issues or reported failures etc. Trying to cover up his unethical shot into a group of aoudads killing a baby. Then when exposed for that and the cover up he had the video removed and tried covering up what he did again. Or them trashing Brian litz because he exposed they were lying about their bc’s. Or Nathan foster who pointed out issues with their bullets and flaws in their theories about terminal ballistics. Or perjury lying trying to get my videos pulled not once but 3 times. They even got called out by KZbin on that one. Or lying about ballistics gel testing including lying about what the gel company said. Steve got caught and even admitted that he was wrong. Of course then he stalked and harassed the guy until he got banned. Bullying, stalking, harassment, false accusations against anyone who questions him or proves him wrong. Or even better him lying about his new tipped bullets. He claimed that thousands of animals were killed in the testing of them and they performed far superior to the regular hammers. Except that is a flat out lie once again. His bullet tester posted a report of all the animals killed in the testing of the bullets. There was only 24 animals that were killed during the testing not thousands as claimed. Then his marketing director posted a full “list” of all animals killed with all hammers. There was only a little over 600 total on the list. So they don’t even have thousands of kills with all bullets let alone just the tipped ones. As for your statement about them being a cross of Berger and Barnes. You might want to actually learn about bullets before commenting. They are nowhere close to a cross between them. Hammers aren’t even a advancement or new design. Hammer is just a copy of a GS custom bullet out of South Africa. All they did was make the boat tail a little longer and changed the bands. Besides that they are identical and nothing amazing or new. GS custom has been around since 1993. So the so called advancements you think I’m against are have been around for 30 years. Steve didn’t do anything groundbreaking he just took what someone else did and copied it. He changed it just enough to avoid copyright infringement. His so called new tipped bullets he copied others too like apex and badlands. He doesn’t know enough to actually create anything. He couldn’t even figure out how to install the new tips where they won’t fall out. He is making the customers install the tips with a mallet. This doesn’t even scratch the surface of everything shady, unethical, and unprofessional that they have done. Let alone the issues with their bullets and failures.

[@QuinnTheSin]

It frags initially like a Berger and the shank drives through like a Barnes. Something I missed? Good job liking your own comment btw lol

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@QuinnTheSin not even remotely close and Barnes doesn’t shed petals. Only time it does that is if the velocity is too high. It’s designed to mushroom not shed petals. Berger shedding weight is completely different than a hammer. Berger mushrooms and keeps a mushroom while shedding the outer part of it to continue moving forward while keeping shoulder stabilization. Only little fragments are shedding not the entire nose of the bullet. I don’t know what you’re referring to about “ liking my own comment”.

[@QuinnTheSin]

I’m talking about the pass through of a Barnes and the quick initial fragmentation of a Berger. It seems to combine both aspects. I’ve also seen you lauding ELDXs and ELDMs as hunting bullets. Neither are seen as being great here in South Tx. ELDXs disintegrate at high velocity and pencil at low. I had a buddy accidentally shoot a nilgai with a 300 PRC ELDM, and the animal nor any blood were ever found. Granted they are tough, but I’ve taken a number of them with standard cup & core bullets. They are what made me switch to Barnes and Hammer projectiles for complete pass throughs and quick kills. I figured you just had a bad experience with Hammer, but after I saw you spreading more misinformation I felt the need to say something. Have a good one

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@QuinnTheSin the eld x is literally a marketed hunting bullet not a match bullet. I don’t really recommend them either only the eld match. They are two completely different bullets and only share the name eld. The eld match is a improved version of the amax. The eld x is a improved version of the sst. I’m not a fan of the sst or the eld x. What you’re describing isn’t a bullet problem but a problem with the operator. Used inside its operational velocity range they perform well. Getting explosive shallow penetration at high velocity is because it’s being used above its maximum impact velocity. Penciling occurs when it’s impacting below its minimum impact velocity. All bullets have their own maximum and minimum impact velocities. You are blaming the bullet for operator error not understanding the bullet or using it inside its operating velocity range. I know plenty of guys in Texas etc who use eld match and love it. Again if you’re going to try and accuse someone of misinformation you should actually know what you’re talking about first. The only person here spreading misinformation has been you. From hammers, Berger, Barnes, eld x, and eld match you have been wrong.

[@Ralphbo-u6l]

I’m glad that consumers like you take company’s to task. But to me it’s seems like there’s more involved than the bullets. I bought my first box of Hammer bullet and after watching this I probably wish I stayed with Barnes bullets, but you seem to have way to much enthusiasm to take Hammer bullets out. In lots of point you make your picking fly shitt out of pepper. Thanks for the heads up but it sounds likes someone’s feeling have been hurt.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Hey so no feeling hurt here but you are right about there’s a whole lot more to this than what is in this video. The amount of shady stuff that hammer and associates has done is staggering. To cover everything it would require a video at least 40 plus hours long with all the supporting evidence. Just a little insight and examples for you. Steve and Brian started a bullet company. Their only credentials were shooting water jugs. They bought a lathe and didn’t even know how to use it. They had to beg for help and some people just to start. Some guys in the industry helped them out just enough to get started. Now they claim to have created their bullets except they didn’t. They copied a bullet from a small bullet company in South Africa called GS custom. All they did is make a little longer boattail and did smooth bands instead of the usual ones. That’s it if you put them side by side it’s almost identical. Now they have lied about all of this claiming it was all their own genius. Of course they are pathological liars as you will see from examples. They are without a doubt the worst and most shady company that I have ever seen in the industry. Here’s some examples of the lies. They lied about their bc’s which are hugely inflated. When they got caught when Brian Litz did the bullet testing to add it to the bc library. They falsely accused Brian of faking the tests and altering the results to try and make hammer look bad. You will see a trend of this behavior. If you don’t know Brian Litz is the world’s top ballistics expert in the world and highly respected. They contacted Nathan Foster who is one of the top terminal ballistics experts in the world. He works with lots of bullets companies around the world. They tried to get him on board and get him to promote them. The problem is that they don’t know what they are talking about both in bullets and ballistics. When he corrected them and tried to help them learn they didn’t like it. They have ever since been trying to discredit him. Because he didn’t go along with them and because he told them that they were wrong. They wanted to test out their bullets on animals. So a friend of theirs invited them out to cull elk. They hosted Steve and Brian in their home. They guided them, helped them, etc all free of charge. How did they repay this incredible kindness? They demanded that he drop his current bullet sponsor Berger and solely use and promote hammer bullets.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

When he politely declined they started trashing him online. After everything he did for them and they constantly trashed him because he wouldn’t take the offer. That’s the kind of people they are and they did that to friends. One of the original guys who helped them learn they screwed over too. He helped them learn even though they were the competition. How did they repay their friend who helped them in the very beginning? When he released his line of bullets they were the very first people to order some. Now was this in support of their friend who helped them? Sadly no it wasn’t. They sent some of the bullets to their “tester” and setup a fake test to make his bullet fail and make hammers look better. Then they announced a new tipped bullet line just like his and claimed that they had been in development for a while. Reality is they tried to copy his bullets and failed. This isn’t theory either the guy who did the fake testing admitted to it. The lies around the new bullets is nothing more than ridiculous. The guy who did it posted his testing results. He claims to have tested them on 24 animals and gave detailed breakdowns. Then Steve started claiming that they had tested them on hundreds of animals with incredible results. Then a few days later he was claiming that they had killed thousands of animals in the testing. Not only did they lie about the numbers but they couldn’t even copy the bullet or even figure out how to install the tips. They literally are having the customer buy the stuff to do it and install the tips themselves with mallets. They charge $140 and you have to install the tips because they don’t know how. They claim that it’s because they don’t have a machine to install them and they can’t hire anyone to install them. That’s all a lie because the real reason is if they install them and the customer gets them and the tips have fallen out they would look bad. If the customer does it they can blame them. There was a lot of reports of people getting tips from them that were damaged in the bag not installed. Not only did they lie about the kills with the new bullets but they also lied about their kills period. Steve is claiming thousands of kills with the new bullets. Except the marketing director just posted a “complete list” of all the confirmed hunting kills with ALL hammers and the details. The number of all combined kills listed is just over 600 animals total. Which completely destroys Steve’s claims of thousands of kills. They lie so much that they are constantly contradicting themselves. Now they have done some messed up stuff to friends. What they have done to other people is even worse. They go after people who don’t kiss their ass or prove them wrong. There’s a forum called long range hunting. They are a “official” sponsor which means they have bought control of it. Steve and his associates use it to promote hammer and go after people that they see as against them.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

They are nut jobs to put it politely in reality narcissists. They do whatever they want and get anyone banned who calls them out. Even when they person never violated any rules. Steve even did a post asking for all the “hammer haters” to comment so he could hear them out with no arguing. Well he was lying and nobody fell for it. He even got caught admitting in his own forum that he was lying. He was trying to get people to comment so he would know who to target. They have labeled certain guys as hammer haters because they have proven them wrong and they are more knowledgeable. So they have done everything possible to try and get them banned and discredit them. They claim they are really all one person under multiple accounts. That it’s actually a bunch of people who are in a giant conspiracy to destroy hammer. They have gone as far as stalking them even going after them personally. They offered to send one guy bullets to test. When he agreed they used his address to target him and his personal business. They have tried claiming that they don’t hunt or shoot. That they are “self proclaimed experts” so nobody should listen to them. They also claim that Brian litz and Nathan foster are self proclaimed experts. That and the conspiracy against hammer is the favorite go to moves to try and discredit people. They stalk guys in the forum trying to pick fights. When Steve got publicly called out on doing this he then tried playing the victim. One guy who they got banned by falsely claiming that he was trying to impersonate Steve to make him look bad. They were just bragging about that. One of the hammer cult that’s what we call the hammer associates. He just told that guy in another forum that he should do the world a favor and kill himself. They are literally going to that extreme trying to tell people that they views as anti hammer to kill themselves. Steve just got blasted because he teamed up with known anti hunting and anti gun groups trying to get lead core bullets banned. The groups are also trying for full gun bans, ban all hunting, and ban all lead. Where people called him out for teaming up to help them destroy our hunting etc. He responded by accusing everyone of trying to destroy hammer. He tried saying that he doesn’t support banning lead. Until someone posted a screenshot of him bragging that him and Brian are both pro banning lead. He literally went on their video to proclaim his bullets are the best in the world so you don’t need lead. He literally sold out the hunting industry and gun industry for personal gain.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

He has been caught lying about what companies say about his products. He tried lying saying that clear ballistics said that there was no way he could shoot though two gel blocks. That he did it and they praised him and said that was an incredible achievement. Except that is a complete lie. They literally state on the website that they don’t guarantee the gel to stop the bullet. I personally reached out and asked them about it. They said that they would never say that and they didn’t say that. Not even with multiple blocks do they guarantee to stop it. Steve also lied claiming the blocks were bigger than they actually were. Steve also pays people secretly to promote him. A prime example is giving back tv. He is featured on there a lot as a special guest. Except he got caught admitting that he is one of their financial backers and sponsors. They don’t list him as a sponsor though and they promote hammer. Even to the point of covering up for him. He did a ram hunt down there and they got caught in a big cover up. He on camera was told that he didn’t have a clean shot. The ram was tightly surrounded by other rams. Now Steve preaches that you always get pass throughs. Knowing that he immediately ignores the guide and shoots into the group. Now he got called out when someone noticed that he shot a baby that was standing right behind his ram. Now when that happened they pulled the video from KZbin. Steve immediately tried spinning his own version to make him look better. Problem for him was that the guy screen recorded it and contacted me. Steve claimed that he was told he was cleared to shoot. That the ram was a clean shot and nobody saw the baby. He claimed that they only discovered it when they were leaving and it was back in the brush. He claims that he owned up to it but the guide said it was okay because he is such a stand up guy. Unfortunately the video proves that all wrong. He was clearly told that he wasn’t clear and nobody told him to shoot. The baby died right next to the ram. In the video you can see its legs in the air right behind the ram. In editing they didn’t notice the legs behind it apparently. Then he goes down the the ram and it’s alone. They actually went down there discovered the baby and moved the body. Then they went back and staged a fake walk up from the shooting spot to the ram. They then uploaded the video thinking that they had covered it up until someone spotted the legs and said something. Instead of owning what he did he had it pulled and instantly tried spinning a new cover story thinking nobody could see the video. They have a long history of covering stuff up and lying. They have altered videos showing failures and issues. They have done fake testing with gel trying to make their bullets look better. Then when called out they attempt to alter them further to hide it. Anyone who reports issues or failures they attack and try to discredit. They will be shown publicly reported failures and then go on to claim that they have never seen any failures. They tried blaming me for the failure I saw in the gel. They got caught admitting in the hammer forum before they realized anyone can see it. That they had issues with the bullets that I tested and they have since “fixed” the issues. They admitted to the problems yet they still try and blame me and try discrediting me. Steve in response to people including myself pointing out issues with his bullets and their terminal performance. Especially in regard to energy transfer. He decided to make up his own terminal ballistics where those failures are actually a good thing. I’m not even joking it’s literally that stupid. He’s trying to claim that energy doesn’t actually exist and all the data and experts are wrong. He alone knows better than anyone else and the whole industry is wrong.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Well just like everything else he lies so much he contradicts himself. People posted screenshots of him talking about his bullets and the great energy transfer. Funny right after he claimed energy doesn’t exist. His partner Brian went on an interview talking about energy transfer and how hammer bullets does a great job of transferring energy. So his partner literally proved what he said as wrong. Steve will claim anything and twist anything. They have even broke the law. They violated the consumer protection act put in place by congress. This was done to protect consumers rights to share bad experiences without the company going after them to silence them. They have gone way beyond that on multiple occasions. Then there is the felony perjury from targeting me. They didn’t like that I didn’t give them a positive review. So they went after me trying to bully me. Then they tried going after me and my channel by lying to KZbin trying to get my channel and videos pulled. They had to agree under penalty of perjury when accusing me. They lied trying to go after me not once but 3 different times. It got so even KZbin had to tell them to knock it off. KZbin literally said that they were greatly concerned by their repeated attempts against me. After that failed they tried accusing me of deleting comments and blocking people. They did this by commenting in my comments under multiple accounts. They got caught because one of them commented on the account they claimed that I blocked. After they were exposed they went to calling me everything under the moon and trying to bully me. They can’t argue with video evidence so they try and discredit me. They even tried making comments trying to pretend that they weren’t with hammer. That they were just people who saw the video and try and accuse me of stuff. They got caught bragging about it in the hammer forum. The hammer bullet tester who did the fake test to make the competitors bullet fail. He promised me 250 animals worth of pictures of the terminal performance. I gave him my email and over a year later I still haven’t gotten a single one. They tried claiming I did in the comments to try and make me look bad. Until I proved them wrong. He then tried to trick me telling me he would send them. Except first he wanted to get my opinion on the terminal performance of 7 animals with hammer bullets. His goal was that I would give him a breakdown and then he would reveal that they were actually killed with lead core bullets. That I clearly don’t know what I’m doing and discredit me. That’s not a theory either he admitted to that being his plan. Problem for him is that I could tell right away it wasn’t from monolithics and he was up to something fishy. They have received a lot of reports of issues and failures. They always have something to blame and try discrediting the person. One guy literally had 4 failures in a row on 4 elk. Next day Steve was claiming he had never see a failure from his bullets. He makes sure anyone who has issues is banned and silenced in lrh. Honestly this doesn’t even scratch the surface of hammer. Since doing these videos I have found out a lot going back years. They have a long history of screwing people over, using them, lying, etc. As they become more public more will come out. Right now Steve sticks to places he can control. Ron spomer promotes them and is on the payroll even though he doesn’t admit it. Giving back tv is on the payroll. Len the owner of long range hunting forum is on the payroll. Steve actually admitted that the majority of his marketing budget goes to len. Ed who has a KZbin channel is hammer’s marketing director. Steve controls the hammer forum. He sticks to those places where he has control. A buddy sent me the other day pictures from a Facebook group. Guy asking about hammer bullets. The complete opposite of the forums Steve controls. Only one person was supporting hammer Ed the marketing director. Everyone else was telling him to avoid hammer.

[@mirta19422]

I liked your view of the bullet. I just got done watching one of there balistics gel videos. Even when the bullet didn't leave the gel you could still see the curve of the bullet. To many good hunting bullets out there to use a half performer.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Absolutely there’s far better options out there for way less money. There is a difference between paying for quality and overpriced junk. I liked how you put it as a half performer. Even without all the bad stuff that the owners have done and continue to do. Just based on the bullet itself it is not a good bullet. The amount of issues, poor performance, failures, etc is nothing short of staggering. When you are looking down your scope on a hard hunt and finally have a animal in your sights. You want a bullet that will deliver every single time and give you great terminal performance. What you don’t want is a bullet that doesn’t perform well and has high failure rates. There was a guy last year talking about his experience to Steve the owner of hammer. He shot 4 bull elk with hammers and had 4 failures. He managed to recover two of the elk after extensive tracking. The other two were lost and one they tracked over a mile. They finally saw it way off in the distance walking as if it had never been hit even though you could see where it was shot. The crazy part is that the owners will try and claim bad performance is actually good. Their marketing director did a video hunting and praised them. The video he shot 3 animals hogs and coyotes. One was a lung shot and the other two were high shoulder CNS shots. So CNS shots should have dropped them on the spot. Nope all 3 animals ran off quite a ways after being shot. He searched and found nothing and even came back the next day to search. So 3 shots two of which should have dropped them on the spot. Yet he couldn’t recover a single animal even with the aid of thermal imaging. Yet he claims that it was superior performance and he is sure that they all died quickly and ethically. 🤦‍♂️ If you’re curious to see that watch my video on bullet failures I covered it. Good luck this hunting season hopefully you are very successful. Happy hunting.

[@doghousedon1]

🤔 ...........💡 60+ years shooting experience give one a very long sight radius to be looking at this with.

[@dustinemerson7828]

I used a remington core lokt 100 grain on my first buck perfect broad side shot went inbetween two ribs and it came out by the rear quarter on the other side

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Core lokts are terrible bullets and have plenty of issue. There’s a reason they are so cheap. Necking over isn’t just something that happens with monolithics. The smk has a history of doing it along with other lead core bullets.

[@jmgates09]

I agree core lokt and power points are not great bullets but 200 an closer they are deadly all I used in my broke 20s now I stick to federals terminal accent and trophy bonded

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@jmgates09 yeah I used core lokts and soft points for years. Yes inside a couple hundred yards they will work but it’s still not great. It’s really down to shot placement rather then terminal performance. I went to the accubond and partition after that. I’ve used quite a few bullets over the years. I’m currently using the top performers I’ve seen in testing and the field. Eld match, a tips, TMK’s, and Berger hybrids. I wish when I was younger and had a better understanding of ballistics and bullets. At least now I know and I’m so much more effective in the field. Hopefully my videos like gel and hunting will help people avoid the process and start off with great bullets.

[@bobkat1663]

I have not shot anything large, a deer and pronghorn , the bullets went in the front broke off in three or four places and went in different directions, animals were dead instantly, but that is a 25-06 Rem. IF they machine them, it might only be certain calibers, I would reach out and tell them what you found.

[@PogLife2171]

This isn't a new phenomenon with the copper projectiles but cup and core projectiles have their own failures as well. I have a hunch that a lot of these failures come from everyone wanting super high BC projectiles and we haven't really worked them perfect just yet like the traditional hunting projectiles. ELD-Xs have a very similar issue as far as erratic expansion at certain velocities and have made certain cartridges look really poor on game performance when its more of a projectile design issue.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

You are correct these issues are not new to monolithic bullets. You’re also correct that lead core bullets have their issues too. All bullets have limitations. The truth is a lot of the reported “failures” aren’t actually failures but operator error. They use it under the minimum impact velocity. They use it above its maximum impact velocity. They make bad shots or miss. The biggest one I see is guys who don’t know anything about bullets or terminal ballistics. They claim it’s a failure when in reality the bullet did exactly what it’s supposed to do. Example claiming a bullet failed because it didn’t exit. Or they see massive trauma and think the bullet blew up because they found a couple small fragments. In reality it’s the hydraulic shock causing the damage. The bullet didn’t blow up it sheds weight as it expands and the bullet still continued on. So any time I see a reported failure I look at everything to ensure that it’s actually a failure. Then I look at how many actual failures there are. How the bullet is designed and its weaknesses. There is a big difference between an anomaly and a problem. Example if there’s 10 recorded failures out of 100,000 bullets then it is an anomaly. If a bullet has 20,000 failures out of 100,000 then it is a problem not an anomaly. Monolithic bullets have more limitations than lead core. There is issues with lead core bullets and there’s issues that apply to all bullets lead, monolithic, etc. Certain monolithic bullets have more problems due to poor design. There is good lead core and bad. There is good monolithics and bad. Companies like cavity back bullets have designed their bullets to be more reliable and effective some of the issues that monolithic bullets can have. Hammer the design literally sets them up to have all the potential issues. They don’t actually know what they’re doing and copied another bullet design. The copied a GS custom a small company in South Africa. The just changed the boat tail and the bands. Besides that the two bullets are identical. I know guys who helped them get started. They literally bought a lathe without knowing how to use it and put it in their garage. They then hired a guy to teach them how to run the lathe. They literally started without even knowing how to use the equipment and had no knowledge of terminal ballistics or bullets. It’s like someone buying a race car when they don’t even know how to drive and then they enter races and claim to be experts. Or like people buying restaurants when they have zero business experience and have never even worked in a restaurant. They actually even made their bullets worse than GSC. They went crazy with the bands. They literally screwed the aerodynamics of the bullet with all the raise bands. Out of all monolithic bullets I’ve seen more issues and failures with hammer than anything else. The bigger problem is that Steve knows that there’s problems. He just ignores them and attacks the customer. They couldn’t even figure out how to install tips in their new bullets. They make the customer install them so that they can blame the customer if it falls out. There has been a lot of reports of people getting not installed damaged tips from hammer. They ordered and tried copying the afterburner bullets and couldn’t. They even went as far as having their bullet test do a rigged test with afterburners. They tried to make it look bad and say hammer is better. That’s not a theory either he admitted to doing it. As for the eld x I’m not a fan of it or of the sst. The eld x is just an improved version of the sst. Both have issues changing the tip and making it more aerodynamic is really all they did. They still perform the same terminally and have the same issues. I always recommend people use the eld match instead. The eld x and eld match are two completely different bullets. They both share the eld name which I don’t know why they did that. People think it’s like the vld’s one for practice one for hunting. The eld match is an improved version of the amax. It is a far better bullet in both external ballistics and terminal ballistics. There is actually only a few Hornady bullets that I recommend. Amax, eld match, a tips, and FTX. The rest aren’t that great honestly so I don’t recommend them. You are dead on the money that people blame the cartridge for bad bullet performance. In reality the cartridge case is nothing more than a vessel for velocity. The bullet is what dictates external and terminal ballistics. Way too many people think that the cartridge is what dictates performance. Fortunately more and more people are learning that it’s actually the bullet. Good luck this coming up hunting season. Happy hunting.

[@PogLife2171]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I have had great luck with the sst but that only from 2 rifles, a 25-06 and 25-06AI. With the standard I'm shooting fairly quick and with the AI I'm in 257 Weatherby velocity territory which seems to be very consistent on projectiles performance. But that's really a sample size of one, the few others I have used like the 170 in 8x57 have been close enough distance that It's not a real indicator of performance.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@PogLife2171 I gotta say you are very refreshing to chat with in these comments. Especially what you just said about the sample size being too small to really make an overall assessment of performance. Lots of guys think that killing a couple animals at high velocity translates into a bullet being perfect. Then they ignore any negative results reported. The sst and eld x both have Hornady’s AMP jacket .051” thick and tapers thinner as it goes forward. The sst has hornady’s old polymer tip but the eld x has the new “heat shield” tip. Which isn’t even anything new. Sierras been using the same polymer tip material for years. Hornady just has it in red and put a cleaver marketing spin on it. Both have an interlock ring but they ditched the CANNELURE with the eld x. Both have the same core. The eld x is slightly more aerodynamic with a higher bc. Both will perform very similar terminally and have the same maximum and minimum impact velocity range. As long as you stay within the bullets operating velocity range it will perform generally. Especially if you stick to the upper portion of the velocity range. The sst and eld x are what I consider mid range performers terminally. They will get the job done and give you decent terminal performance. They do have their issues though and there’s far better bullets out there. I have found that the eld x is really hard to get to shoot really well. Most guns don’t like them and it’s a pain doing load development. I have a few buddies that their rifle likes them and shoots them extremely well. Most ultimately give up and move on though. It seems like either your gun likes them or they don’t. I spent 6 months testing the eld match, eld x, and the Berger vlds. 4 different rifles, different cartridges, different bullet weights, etc. I shot them out to a mile to test supersonic, transonic, and subsonic flight. I did terminal ballistics testing too. The eld match was the top performer hands down. Super easy to get to shoot with load development. Handled transonic and subsonic flight extremely well. Best accuracy and consistency. Best terminal ballistics and reliability. The eld x was the most difficult to do load development for. 3 custom rifles and one factory rifle. I did get decent loads but nothing that I would be happy with out of those guns. I ended up having a friend who has a gun that shoots the x well 1/4 moa at 100 yards come out. We used his rifle to get another data point to make it as fair of comparison as possible. It was bottom of the pack in all categories except terminal ballistics reliability. That’s due to the polymer tip and cavity. The vld’s were pretty easy to get to shoot well. They performed slightly better than the eld x. Terminal performance was slightly better. The problem is in the design and like other bthp bullets can clog since the hole is so small. They are also more susceptible to impact angles. If the impact angle is too much the tip will fold over instead of peeling back and expanding. Polymer tipped bullets are less susceptible to impact angle. Berger has gone away from the VLD design. They still produce the VLD target and hunter. However all the other bullets are the new hybrid design and far superior. The hybrid design has a massive cavity in the nose of the bullet. It upon impact will collapse backwards. This drastically increases the surface area contact giving it rapid and violent expansion. So even if the hole clogs it will still expand. The vld I tested was the old ones in my 6 month test. It was better than the new ones. In 2011 Berger changed the vld design to include thicker jackets. The results were not good and it made the bullet perform worse. I have since tested the post 2011 vld’s and there’s a big difference terminally. The eld match has proven over the years to be a superior bullet especially terminally. A lot of people are switching over to it now for hunting. I run those a lot for hunting. I’m using the new a tips currently in my 6mm creedmoor. The a tip is an improved version of the eld match. A buddy of mine did the R&D testing for it both external ballistics and terminal ballistics. It’s the same as the eld match except it’s more aerodynamic, has an aluminum tip, and is more consistent. They actually changed how they made bullets with the a tip. They had to build a new facility just to make the a tips. The new method gives more consistent results. They even individually package the bullets so they don’t touch. The a tip is better in external ballistics but performs the same terminally. So far in the last 3 seasons we have killed 8 animals with it. 7 deer 285-530 yards and the Elk was at 494 yards. The 110 a tip out of the 6mm creedmoor really puts a hurting on them. The elk was at a watering hole when I shot it. I could stick my thumb into the exit hole. It blew so much blood out of the exit hole it looked like an oil spill on the water for a few feet. It went 30 feet with a lung shot and left a blood trail a blind person could follow. Buddy just killed his bull elk at 1380 yards with the 153 a tip.

[@PogLife2171]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I'm planning my second Colorado hunt this year, got skunked on Elk on an OTC 3rd rifle hunt last year but I'm planning on going for second and throwing in for the draw if mule deer tags are available. I have my eyes set on a Mauser M18 or Sauer 100 in 300WM but I also want to continue work with the 25-06AI. Like I said with a 117-120 I'm in the 3400fps+territory and with a Nosler Partition or similar projectile inside of 400 I'm more than great energy wise for Muleys, and probably 250 or less for Elk. Most people recommend the WM for 400 yards+ but I really don't think I could justify that shot even though it is not a "long distance" shot for the cartridge. But time will tell and I still have time to play with both and see the best I can get out of either.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@PogLife2171a lot of people get confused about energy. The energy numbers you see on the box or in the ballistics calculator are only a potential. That number is the maximum potential energy and most bullets don’t even come close to it. Lots of guys set limits on energy but they are actually killing with far less than they believe. Example I did a side by side comparison test with eld match and Barnes tsx. Same gun, mv, impact velocity, distance, etc. At 200 yards they impacted at 2300 fps out of a 308 win. The potential energy was 2209 ft lbs. The eld match achieved maximum energy transfer. The gel block went flying backwards about 6 feet. The table that it was sitting on moved a good 12”. The permanent wound cavity was 2” and the temporary wound cavity was 12”. The Barnes on the other hand barely did anything. The gel block lifted a couple inches off the table in the front and dropped back down. The difference was like getting hit by a toy car vs getting hit by a semi truck. The permanent wound cavity was 7/8” and the temporary wound cavity was 6”. The Barnes only achieved 600 ft lbs of energy out of the 2200 ft lbs of potential energy. Later I did a test with the same setup but I did the eld match at 1370 fps impact velocity. The permanent wound cavity was 1 1/8” and the temporary wound cavity was 6”. At 1370 fps impact velocity the eld match had a slightly larger permanent wound cavity and slightly more energy transfer at 700 ft lbs than the Barnes at 2300 fps. So the guys who have been killing with the Barnes tsx thinking that they are doing it with 2200 ft lbs of energy are actually doing it with 600 ft lbs. Manufactures are going away from energy recommendations and even some fish and game departments. Alaska no longer has an energy requirement. They say that velocity and bullet construction is what actually matters. The truth is that as long as you stay within the bullets operational velocity range with a good bullet you will have more than enough energy. I pick bullets that have great energy transfers. However I don’t ever base distance on it or even look at the potential energy. I just focus on the impact velocity and I’m good. It’s like the guy’s arguing about what cartridge performs better and is best for hunting. That’s utter nonsense as the cartridge case is just a vessel for velocity. The effectiveness of it is solely based on the bullet. They believe it because they have heard it forever and don’t know any better. Same thing is common with people thinking energy numbers are a huge limiting factor. Just to clarify that is not a poke at you just simply giving information and common examples. I’m not saying that you fall into that category. Your limits on effective range is based off the bullets minimum impact velocity and your own abilities. Years ago I killed an elk with a 338 wm at 200 yards with 250 gr partition’s. Two seasons ago I killed an elk at 494 yards with a 6mm creedmoor using 110 a tips. I had more damage and a larger exit hole with the 110 a tip out of a 6mm creedmoor at 494 yards than I did with the 250 gr partition out of a 338 wm at 200 yards. I used partition, accubond, etc for years in different guns. They are good bullets but there’s definitely better bullets out there. How do you like the 25-06 AI? I have played with a few wildcats etc but never tried that one. Sucks that you struck out on elk. Elk hunting is definitely hard and very physical. I always tell people there’s no such thing as an easy elk hunt. If you got an elk then you definitely earned it. A tip for you every single guy I know who is successful every year on elk has one thing in common. They all go in farther than everyone else is willing to go. 90 percent of hunters won’t go more than a mile from the road. They push the animals in deeper. The smart guy’s go in deep and let the crowds of hunters push the elk right to them. If you go in more than 3 miles you will cut out 95 percent of the competition. If you can get in 5-10 miles from the road. Then you have animals being pushed to you from the hunting crowds. You will also have animals that are not pressured because they rarely see hunters that far in. Something else that can help you is calling the fish and game wildlife biologist for your unit. They are an incredible source for information. They know the areas where they go when pressured, movements, where they winter, harvest numbers, population, etc. They are one of the best and most unknown sources for information. If you can politely ask them for information they will usually give you more information than you would ever expect. It might be helpful and help you be successful this year. Good luck this year elk hunting I hope you are successful. Happy hunting.

[@zackboone4459]

I high lunged a bull at 30 yards, zipped right through the elk. No blood, tracked for hours. I was using Berger VLD 180, out of a 28 nosler. Maybe I caught him in the dead zone? Maybe I didn’t, it’s all about placement dude, idk if you should really bash a company like this when other brands do the same thing!

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Can you please provide the other companies with supporting evidence? I don’t know if a single other company that is doing what they are and have done.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

For your vld shot couple questions to help figure out what happened. What was the exact impact on the animal? Was it high equal with the back of the leg going up or was it further back? Do you know if the vld was pre or post 2011? Was it the vld hunting or target bullet?

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

A Barnes TSX or TTSX would have dropped the elk in its tracks.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@JohnSokol-t9dnot necessarily I stopped using Barnes because of performance issues and failures. There’s far superior bullets than Barnes

[@RookCustoms]

So now Barnes also suck 😂😂😂​@@longrangehuntinggroup7223

[@chrisdaniel1339]

I hate the fact that hammer bullet lose their petals on the bullet. I want near 100% weight retention, losing petals is not weight retention. I will be sticking with Barnes, quality bullets and great performance for decades.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Hammers really are a bad design shedding like that. After they break off you lose all the displacement and wounding. It also has many issues. I just got a report yesterday from a guy who had issues on his 3 animals that he shot with hammers. All of them changed directions drastically in the body. The recovered bullets showed that only some of the petals shed. So one side shed and the other didn’t caused it to change directions. I’ve seen failures to shed petals, failures where only part of the petals shed, not expanding at all, tumbling, changing directions, and penciling through. Even when they perform as they should the performance isn’t great. They honestly don’t have a clue what they’re doing. They just came out with a new tipped version trying to copy badlands precision llc and apex. Hammer though isn’t sending clients a complete bullet. The send you the bullets and tips and you have to insert the tips yourself. Hammer doesn’t have a clue how to do it. So they are having the customer do it so if the tip falls out etc they can blame the customer. Not to mention Steve the owner just teamed up with anti gun and anti hunting groups to try and get lead core banned. He literally went on the video to promote his bullets as the best and most superior. The whole video was anti hunting propaganda with zero factual data. These groups are actively and very publicly calling to ban all hunting, lead core, and guns. Now we have a bullet manufacturer teaming up with them.

[@chrisdaniel1339]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I will not be supporting Hammer with one red cent if they do not support hunting, hunters, or the 2nd amendment.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@chrisdaniel1339 check out this from the owner Steve. He tried covering it up and staged it. After he got exposed he had the video pulled and tried spinning a story lying about what happened. Unfortunately for him myself and others screen recorded it because of his track record of deleting things. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2KniXiwnrV4i7c

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@chrisdaniel1339 the worst part is Steve is trying to defend himself hooking up with anti hunters. He’s trying to accuse anyone who doesn’t like him doing it saying that they are actually anti hunting and don’t care about the environment. After major backlash he tried claiming that he doesn’t believe in banning lead bullets despite doing a video with that goal. Then a screenshot from a forum got posted. It was Steve saying that he has raw nerve when it comes to banning lead bullets. He lies so much he can’t keep track of all of them and contradicts himself constantly. He also tries to discredit and bully people into silence for pointing out issues or reporting failures and bad performance with his bullets. He accuses anyone who reports bad performance or issues of being in a giant conspiracy to destroy him. That there’s no bad performance or failures it’s just jealous haters who have conspired to destroy him. Yes I know how incredibly stupid that is. It’s like the guy who sucks at rapping but thinks he’s amazing and anyone who tells him otherwise is just a hater and jealous. I’ve never seen anything like it before in the industry. It’s embarrassing and he is a traitor who sold out hunters and shooters for personal gain.

[@chrisdaniel1339]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 He does not sound like an ethical businessman, if he keeps up the practices you mentioned he wont be in business long.

[@johntruesdale1612]

The deer went straight down.. What more do you want?

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

So if you shoot a deer and it drops on the spot and after a few seconds gets back up and runs off never to be recovered. Is that a good thing because it “went straight down”? If you shoot a deer and it drops instantly but it’s only paralyzed and lays there suffering is that what you think is good? If it drops straight down but after a few seconds gets up and runs off and eventually dies but it takes hours or even days to die. Is that what you’re calling good just because it dropped straight down at first? That deer didn’t drop instantly and die from a CNS shot which is what you actually want to happen. You want to shut down the CNS and have it drop instantly dead. This one got hit in the spine and paralyzed it. The deer laid there only able to move its head and neck. It wasn’t an instantly fatal shot. It was wounded and would suffer until it eventually died or was shot again. Even hammer knows that it was a bullet failure and that it wasn’t a good result. The fact that the edited the video to try and hide the failure and make it appear better shows that. If it was actually good with no failure then there would be no reason to alter the footage.

[@johntruesdale1612]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 What the video showed was it went straight down. Video didn’t show it running off. So I guess every shot you’ve made in your entire hunting career was perfect and killed deer on impact. You’ve never had to finish a deer off with handgun or second rifle shot. The video that I commented on showed deer go straight down and didn’t get up. Don’t get pissy with me because you don’t like hammer bullets. You are portraying yourself as a perfect hunter that kills on impact EVERY TIME. I’ve been hunting 40 years and I’ve only not recovered one deer that I hit and it was my fault rushing the shot. . So don’t be giving me crap about “so u like it to go down and then get up and run off”. I don’t like for any animal to suffer. If u feel this strong about that, why are you not advocating for the end of bow hunting animals? That’s rarely a kill in impact and most all of them run off and suffer. Did you read any of the other comments that said the bullets did exactly what they were supposed to do and are very accurate?

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@johntruesdale1612 It’s funny how you tell me not to get pissy while you’re getting pissy. 😂 A little defensive and sensitive are we? Since you’re taking everything out of context and being a drama queen. I’ll break it down Barney style for you. You said it dropped and what more would I want? Well I answered you that just because it drops doesn’t mean it’s a good result. The only good time when it drops is when the CNS is shutdown. Either permanently where it is dead before it hits the ground or when it is basically knocked out and before it can recover it has too much blood loss and doesn’t recover. That happens from a direct hit to the brain, spinal cord, or one of the plexus’s like the brachial plexus. The other examples are when it’s not a good thing. It doesn’t have much trauma but transfers just enough energy to temporarily shut down the CNS aka knocked out. It will drop and after a little bit it will recover because there wasn’t sufficient trauma to have it expire before gaining consciousness. This happen guys will walk up to the deer and it will get up and run away. The other is where you hit the vertebrae in the spine and it drops and is paralyzed but it’s not a quick death. It will require additional shots or will take a long time to die. Thats the case here it was paralyzed except the head and neck. The original video you can see it looking around. They edited the video to make it look better and hide the bullet failure. It’s not the first time either that they have tried covering up issues. It’s happened multiple times and they have been caught doing it. As for the positive comments here they don’t mean really anything. Most of these guys are known hammer cult. The same guys in different forums harass and bully anyone who gives a negative report or failure with hammer bullets. Including turning on long time hammer customers who finally had enough issues to stop using them. There has been a lot of issues and failures publicly shown to Steve. He just accuses them oh nonsense and tries to discredit them. By the way you can drop animals dead 100 percent of the time with a good bullet and shot placement. Your archery comment is irrelevant and nonsense. There is a big difference between normal archery hunting and failures/bad performance. A deer runs off and dies in archery and that’s normal. Now if you’re using tips that break on impact, don’t cut, etc then that’s a problem with the broadhead. That’s what we’re dealing with here. It’s crappy bullets with high failure rates and issues. You are so blinded by your defense of hammer that you don’t understand what is actually being discussed. If you shoot a deer with a good bullet and it runs off and dies quickly. That’s good to go and no issues. If you shoot a deer with a crappy bullet. It runs off and takes hours to die and possibly not even recovered. That’s a problem especially when the company knows about it and they ignore it and attack the person. This has nothing to do with archery or any other type of hunting or if you have to track an animal. It’s about the issues with the bullets and the owners not only ignoring it but actively trying to cover up the issues. So quit throwing tantrums and reading stuff into it that isn’t there. Not too long ago a guy reported to Steve 4 failures. 4 failures in a row on 4 elk and two were tracked over a mile and were never recovered. One he even spotted after a mile of tracking and it was walking like it had never been hit even though it was. Another guy saw 5 failures both his own and clients hunting. Those 5 failures were in a 2 week period. I pay attention to both the good reports and bad reports. The amount of issues and failures is ridiculous.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@johntruesdale1612As for your comment about I’m trying to portray myself as the “perfect” hunter. Last time I checked trying to be the perfect hunter and never loose game is a good thing. I strive for perfection and I use the best equipment to achieve that goal. Doesn’t matter if it’s archery or gun hunting. I use the best arrows and broadheads I can find. If I use one that doesn’t perform well then I stop using it and find something better. I do this until I find the best and then only use them. Same with gun hunting I use the best bullets. If a bullet doesn’t perform well or especially if it fails often I’ll stop using it and move on to a better bullet. I do this until I find the best bullets etc and then I use them. I also apply this mentality to hunting. I don’t take a shot unless I’m 100 precent going to make a clean shot. If not then I just won’t shoot and wait for a better opportunity. Again that’s literally what you’re supposed to do. Lots of hunters don’t do that and take shots that are risky or bad because they don’t want the possibility of not getting the animal. That’s ridiculous in my opinion and not acceptable for me. I’d rather not get something than have the possibility of getting a bad shot. Even if I’m capable of making the shot if it’s not perfect then I don’t shoot. Again that’s common sense and used to be taught in hunters Ed. The fact you’re trying to make it seem like a bad thing to strive for perfection and never loose a animal is pretty sad. Of course you hammer guys will try anything to make someone look bad even if it’s as ridiculous as this.

[@johntruesdale1612]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 “you hammer guys “….. I’ve never bought a hammer bullet. Hunting perfection is something to strive for for ethical kills but how many people are actually perfect? ONLY YOU. YOU ARE FULL OF NARCISSISM. You’re the best and only use the best but you’ve tried other bullets that didn’t perform well so you HAVE used inferior products. So you are not perfect. You used hammer bullets but I haven’t so I guess I’m better than you are. You say..”I only use the best” you are full of shit. How many years did it take you to find out what the “best” is and in the meantime what were you using???? Obviously not the best. You are a narcissistic person. LOOK AT ME. LOOK AT ME. I ONLY USE THE BEST OF EVERYTHING AND IVE NEVER USED AN INFERIOR PRODUCT!! So full of shit u r. I’ve killed somewhere between 150-200 deer in my hunting career and have only not recovered one. I’ve used the BEST products my entire life seem like. You wanna know why???? CAUSE IVE NEVER USED A HAMMER BULLET LIKE YOU HAVE.

[@edlara5311]

This was posted recently in another forum ... I will let y’all decide. My elk rifle is a 20 inch barreled 1/10.5 twist 300WSM and this season My load was 152gr Hammer Hunters running 3125fps with H4350. ELK #1 Cow Broadside 345 yds hit behind shoulder saw dust fly as bullet passed thru. About dime sized in and out with nice blood spray at point where elk stood. No blood at all until elk fell about 35 yds away then lots of blood. Lungs had some damage not shredded though. ELK#2 Nice Bull uphill 320 yds sharp quartering away but looking back at me. Getting late last day of hunt. Laying across rocks on bipod put crosshairs on shoulder shoot partner watching seeing trace calls good shot elk slowly walks away. No blood nothing found that night or next morning looking for hours. Came back a week later found Bull about 900 yds away thanks to coyotes. I assume it was bad shot too far back but not enough left of elk to determine exactly. The next two are why I am bothering to type this as they kinda freaked me out. ELK#3 Slipping along Bull walks out broadside at 75/80 yds I drop to sitting position put the crosshairs on shoulder shoot loud smack elk drops struggles to get up then rolls over and quit moving. I sit for a few seconds then pull my glass to look down the mountain to see where my partner was and when I look back elk is going in timber and next time I see him he is going over high ridge at about 800 yds away. Very slight blood trail for about 1000 or so yards never found elk. Elk#4 See 5x6 elk coming for over a mile away public land in Colorado. I move into position so I can intercept before he gets my wind. I coyote howl to get him to stop at 40 yds but wouldn’t you know it he turns towards me right behind a fence post so I can’t shoot the neck shoulder junction so I lean as far as I can and shoot him behind the shoulder with him quartering to me. He drops in his tracks BUT as I stand up he jumps up and hauls it across the sage brush and I make a running shot that makes him skid on his nose which was quite the sight. But then he raises up and started trying to get his feet under him but he was broken down. I moved around until I could get a good angle into his lungs crossways up thru his body and shoot again.He rolls over and lays there breathing for what seemed like forever. I finally ease around to the other side so I could see his eyes and he raises up and looks at me.... what the heck. I walk right up to him and put one low right behind the shoulder and finally his dies. Not really sure what to think honestly because of all the circumstances involved. Been debating over even putting this on the forum but I figured I would get some feedback...

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Ed Lara unfortunately this is something I've heard and seen too many times with hammer bullets. Always ends with the exact same results. The person posts it and the hammer cult jumps on saying. "You must have the wrong twist rate or made a bad shot" when they show it was the correct twist rate next comes the "It must be a bad batch of copper call Steve". Which is beyond ironic because hammer boasts about their search for the "best" copper and it's superior to other coppers. That's a bs marketing story designed to make them look better. Ironically the thing they blame the most for failures and performance is the copper. Then the hammer cult will try harassing them to prevent them from saying anything negative about hammer especially in that forum. Their SOP for anyone who shows bad performance or calls them out is to blame twist rates, shot placement, and copper. If that doesn't work they try and discredit the person. Steve has openly been trash talking Brian litz because he gave them a real BC and not the inflated ones hammer claims. Brian is the military's ballistician and the top expert in the world. He's also opening trashed Nathan Foster who is the top expert in terminal ballistics and bullets for hunting. Nathan told Steve that he was wrong and why. Reading what Steve has written on terminal ballistics I can see why he doesn't have a clue. What Steve claims literally goes against every expert on the subject. So because Nathan wouldn't go along and proved him wrong Steve is trying to discredit Nathan. When they are trying to argue and discredit a couple of the top experts in the field and saying stuff that's not remotely true you would think the hammer cult might wake up. The more I see from them especially the bad feedback the more I'm glad I did this video. I've never seen a company act so unprofessionally. Hopefully that guy learns from this and goes with a better bullet.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yeah I just got sent another failure that they are trying to discredit. Guy shot a animal and posted the bullet. It barely expanded at all. Hammer is designed to open up and shed the pedals immediately. So it failed to perform as designed and the tip barely opened. They are trying to discredit him by saying he must have shot a reduced load into gel to make hammer look bad. I’ve never seen a company that spends so much time trying to discredit bad customer experiences and openly accuse them of stuff. Steve and the cult have accused people of having a conspiracy against them. It’s not that the bullet is bad, had failures and bad performance, or that they were treated terribly by the owner. Nope it’s got to be a giant conspiracy to take them down. 😂

[@NorthRiverGuide]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 it's pretty bad when a company sees a failure and immediately dismisses it rather than trying to figure out why it happened and how to improve the product. What gets me the most is the obviously inflated b.c. figures, stated as 'estimated' b.c. values because they can not be backed up. Stating values up there with low drag unribbed leadcore bullets and rediculously higher claims than bullets of similar profile and makeup. Sure if someone is shooting an overbore magnum pushing distance to 200 or even stretching to 250yds the b.c. doesnt matter much, since theyll never notice their value being .2 g1 off.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@NorthRiverGuide Hey bud yeah they have been called out multiple times for lying about their BCs. Their response is to just claim bc doesn’t matter. Of course that’s SOP for them. Anytime someone brings up an issue they either try and discredit the person or discredit the thing that they brought up. My favorite lie of hammers is when they blame failures on the copper batch. Because they brag and preach about their journey to find the best copper out there. They claim they have the best copper out there. If that’s true then how come they pretty much blame the copper batch when they get reports of failures? They always have something to blame. It’s incredible the lengths they will go to silence anyone who doesn’t praise them. Their fake terminal ballistics example is comical. They reference a paper written by someone under a fake name. There is literally no credentials, name, actual facts or sources. It’s an opinion piece that is terribly done and wrong on so many things. But of course Steve knows more than all the experts out there who have been doing all our advances in knowledge and bullets. 🙄 Him trying to discredit known experts for showing he’s wrong shows how bad he actually is. He has gone after Nathan Foster too for telling Steve he doesn’t know about terminal ballistics or bullets. So Steve and the cult has gone to another one of their go to moves. Saying that he’s not really an expert he is just a self proclaimed expert. Nathan is an actual expert who bullet companies consult with all the time. He has the largest collection of hunting terminal ballistics data for hunting around the world. They tried the same thing with me when I proved them wrong with facts and evidence. They try discrediting me by saying that I’m a self proclaimed expert. Except I have never once said that. I honestly don’t know why anyone buys into hammers bs. It was started by two guys who didn’t know anything about bullets just shooting water jugs. They bought a lathe and didn’t even know how to use it. They didn’t create the bullet through their incredible knowledge. It’s just a GS custom with a longer boat tail and different bands. They’re so called terminal ballistics knowledge. That comes from a paper written by a guy who doesn’t use his actual name, has no credentials, and is basically saying that every expert is wrong. They ignore bad performance and failures. They have even altered videos to hide performance issues. They try bullying and discrediting anyone who stands up to them, proves them wrong, or shows bad performance. The lie about their BCs and when called out just claims that bc doesn’t matter. They won’t listen to actual experts like Nathan and actively try and discrediting him. My favorite thing they try is coming here and making comments that clearly show they didn’t actually watch the video trying to discredit me. It cracks me up because the more they do that the more people see this video. I get spikes in views and subscribers on this video every time they do that.

[@QuinnTheSin]

Who in their right mind would keep using the same bullet if they had a failure not once but three times. This sounds a little far fetched buddy

[@geraldkriss1120]

G.K. I can't get thrilled about using any rifle with a medium velocity ( 30-30 Win., 35 Rem.,etc.) With any barrel of less than 20". With high velocity cartridges, I stay with I stay with 22- 24". These high velocity calibers are 270.- 308, 30-06 and .338. I see no need for a 7mm Rem. Mag., .300 Magnums, or 340 Weatherby. When I want more velocity at long range, I can go with the Federal High Energy cartridges, and Hornady Light and Heavy Magnums, and now, the Superformance that I have stored( hoarded). These magnumized standard cartridges give me give me the advertised velocity plus excellent accuracy. I suggest using full length barrels and core- lock, bonded, or partitioned bullets for constant performance. Finally, I don't understand why the use of 18" or less barrels with high velocity cartridges ( .223, etc.) for self defense. You are getting 300- 400 fps less velocity and much more ear- damaging muzzle blast. Why not use a pistol caliber carbine (16"barrel). You can get these in 9mm, .40s&w, 10mm, and even .45acp. Will a person now the difference if he got hit with a 10mm carbine or a .223 carbine or pistol? How about a matching caliber pistol and carbine combo? What I have written does not apply to the needs of the military.

[@dalebenson6859]

I can prove this knuckle head is a liar and hater for some reason of copper expanding bullets. I load Barns TSX 165 grain bullets in 7.62 x 39 to fire from the 16 inch barrel of an AR 15. All deer killed by this load and bullets recovered are fully expanded. I load Barns 35 cal 200 grain TTSX in 35 Remington with 5 Roosevelt Elk killed with this load and 5 of these Barns TTSX recovered in full expansion proving this knuckle head is a liar saying only High speed can open up copper expanding bullets.

[@jeremiahthompson43]

Thank you for the info!! I really like that you talk about a fast, clean, ethical kill. I get so upset about people who do not seem to care about that very thing KZbin is full of videos with unethical kills!!!

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yeah sometimes I swear people never paid attention in hunter’s safety. There’s such a thing as a good shot and bad shot. That’s one thing that really ticks me off about some of the guys running monolithic bullets. The hammer guys are definitely some of the offenders. Instead of passing on a bad shot they get bullets that will penetrate deeply. That way “they can take any shot”. They pick a bullet that penetrates deep with poor terminal ballistics so they can take unethical shots. That way they never have to pass on a shot. Instead of doing the right thing and only taking good shots. If you can’t get a good shot then you don’t shoot it’s that simple. Either you look for a different animal, wait for it to come back through, or move into a different position to get a better shot. Having a good animal get away because you couldn’t get a good shot is never fun. It’s not worth taking a bad shot possibly wounding it. Buddy of mine is a professional butcher in Canada. He said that at least 50 precent of the animals brought in are bad unethical shots. A good portion of them the ruptured guts ruined the meat. I really don’t understand why people pick bullets that cause minimal trauma to “save” meat and then take terrible shots. I go for the most reliable bullets with the best terminal performance possible. I will only take a good shot and never shoot if I can’t make the shot. Ironically the people who don’t practice and just shoot a week before season starts. They are the same people who are making most of the bad shots and trying to say long range is unethical. I had a guy try telling me that long range is wrong, I’m just going to wound animals, using match bullets are wrong, and I was wasting too much meat. I shot 5 deer that year from 70 yards to 715 yards. All killed with a single shot with my 308 win with 168 gr amax. He shot two deer with his “hunting” bullets inside 100 yards and wounded both and never recovered them. I lost less than a pound of meat between 5 deer and all of them were put in the freezer. He lost two whole deer because he was so worried about meat loss and used crappy bullets with minimal wounding. We as hunters have a responsibility to the animals we hunt. To be as good as we possibly can be. To only take good shots and use the equipment to achieve quick clean kills. You should be constantly training and learning. Good luck this hunting season and happy hunting.

[@jeremiahthompson43]

@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I agree 110% You ought to look at what Meateater posted on KZbin. ( Meateater Lead vs. Copper) Honestly, I think everyone should look at that. He compares the bonded bullet, Copper bullet, and the cup and core from 140 yards out to 500 yards. To watch what those bullets actually do is very informative. It should really make people take a second look at what they may or may not be using. Thanks for the response.... great video and information.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@jeremiahthompson43honestly I don’t really watch meat eater. I did watch some of their so called testing. The problem was that it wasn’t really testing. It was just a “test” to push bullets that they are sponsored by and even the assessment of the terminal ballistics was wrong. I don’t remember what one off hand but I had a couple dozen people send me it a couple years ago asking about it. They had the same conclusion I did. That’s why I refuse to be sponsored. At that point it’s just pushing products and it’s no longer a factually based assessment. Being completely independent I don’t have any outside sources trying to control the content. At the point they control it it just turns from a evaluation to a marketing scheme. I get why they do it and sponsors make a lot of stuff possible. However it completely ruins their credibility in my opinion. I’ve been sent a few things of meat eater and it is usually him pushing products from his sponsors. Any time I’m getting information from a non independent source like a company or sponsored guy. I take everything that they tell me with a grain of salt. Then it’s time to do research and try and separate the reality from the marketing. People are way too trusting of companies. They seem to forget that the company is there to make money and market the products to be the best. They have a financial stake in you buying their products instead of their competitors products. So there is nothing but incentives for them to tell you that they are the best even if it isn’t true. The same type of people who blindly believe companies marketing. They are the same people who believe that the stripper loves them and politicians are honest and have your best interests at heart. If you want some really good information look up Nathan foster. He’s a professional culler out of Australia who is one of the top experts in terminal ballistics and bullets for hunting. He’s got a website with a lot of great factual based information without any marketing nonsense. Here’s a link to one of his articles on his website. www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Homogenous+copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html

[@mrm5515]

If you are care about ethical kills, stay away from the wanna-be sniper crowd. NONE of them shoot as well as they would like you to believe.

[@snagrbuster7343]

Thank You So Very Much for your Honest report!! In 1977, while I was in the middle of catching Chinook (King) Salmon on the Oregon Coast, at a famous fishing hole, called "The Slaughterhouse-Hole", my wife was curious about how the Cattle Ranchers dispatched the Cattle, and after about 10 minutes of observing their inhumane method, she ran back to me and said, "Please buy a Bow or Rifle to hunt for Elk and Deer, or I'll never be able to eat meat again"!! And of Course, I said, "Sure I will". From there on out, I hunted in Archery Season, but about 3 years ago, my Debilitating Chronic Pain, became too intense for pulling my 78 Pound bow for hunting Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain Elk (we have both in Oregon), whitetail, Blacktail and Mule Deer. In the recent years, I had to switch to Muzzleloading!! A humane dispatch means everything to me!! As you may already know in Oregon, Sabots aren't allowed. Moreover No Part of the bullet may be Plastic. Can you PLEASE, recommend another Solid .50 Cal. Copper Muzzleloading bullet, as I don't care for Pure Lead Bullets!! I Thank you so much in advance, for helping me 😊

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

So I don't do muzzle loaders but my buddies do. Lead core Pittman's are the best option. For a all copper no Sabots I was told for you to look at Thor bullets. All copper with a tip and does not use Sabots. Here's a link to the website for you. Good luck and happy hunting. thorbullets.com/

[@michaeldavidblunt]

Use whatever projectile works for the shot placement and game taken. Every projectile pros and cons. Don't blame the projectile, blame the person pulling the trigger

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

This comment makes my head hurt it’s so wrong. A bad design of bullet has nothing to do with who pulls the trigger. You can line up 100 shooters with the same bullet and get the same issues 100 times. That’s like blaming the driver for a faulty design of an engine from the factory.

[@RM6.5SAUM]

I used to develop prototypes and test hammers on animals in Australia with Farley, after over 183 animals killed between us I parted ways after too many failed bullets. I had an NDA so I couldn’t share results publicly. They have modified multiple different styles / dimensions. There is a video of a bullet developed that was dimensionally too large of diameter and we encountered over pressuring which was seen in a video after the baby was shot a bolt that was stuck. I sure hope things get better for them and they stop using the consumer to do testing for them.

[@josephstephens1252]

Sorry for your test results. Did you shoot an animal with them yet? Ive used hammers in 6.5cm loads. Had amazing terminal results. I've had the original barnes x split in two down the middle on an elk. Doesn't mean Barnes now are bad. So wouldn't surprise me there might be some issues. Hammer's a new company. But I still need to see the bullets in question, as physical data. Its subjective to evaluate based on animal reactions. I'm not saying it's not evidence! But its only one piece of data. After all many eldx style bullets from magnums blow up on shoulder bones at shorter range and fail to penetrate into significant vitals, but that doesn't mean that style bullets can't do a great job. Just way too much data that needs collecting before you make a definitive statement like "NEVER".

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Hey Joseph first off I gotta say that you just gave the best comment on this topic of anyone who uses hammers. Yes one test doesn’t mean a bullet is bad. There’s a lot that goes into the assessment of a bullet for good or bad. I actually did a video covering this topic of bullet failures. Especially that there is a big difference between a fluke/anomaly and a problem. I also cover that a lot of the time what people think is a failure or bad performance really isn’t. Like your example of the eld x “blowing up” on the shoulder with magnums. That’s operator error not a bullet failure. All bullets have maximum impact velocity and minimum impact velocity. They are taking the eld x above the maximum impact velocity. So the bullet isn’t failing the person used it above its operational limit. No different than someone using a bullet below the minimum impact velocity. The bullet won’t perform because it isn’t inside its operational range. I did multiple tests with them with the same results. I also saw the same results on game. I’ve gotten a lot of reports sent to me in pictures, videos, etc. A lot of people have had issues and failures. One guy had 4 failures on 4 elk in a row. I have seen more issues and true failures with hammer bullets than any other bullet company. The fact that it’s a small company makes that even a bigger issue. That’s not the biggest problem though honestly it’s the owners. They are incapable of taking any feedback that isn’t positive. Guys will report issues and they get harassed and falsely accused of lying, trying to destroy hammer, etc. There’s a guy who reached out a while ago. He was in a forum called long range hunting. He was looking at hammers and started asking questions. When looking through the threads that they recommended. He found something that didn’t make sense and asked Steve the owner for clarification. The result was he was instantly accused of being a spy in there with an agenda against hammer. When it was proven that he was right and Steve was wrong. That opened the floodgates. Steve and his buddies literally stalked him through the forum. Any thread or comment they would pile into and make accusations against him and trash him. Ultimately they got him banned and he was a potential customer. He had never heard of hammer before that. He’s not the only one either and that’s common place in that forum. Steve pays a lot of money to get control there. Anyone who questions him or he sees as an enemy he has banned even without actually doing anything wrong. One guy just got banned because he told Steve everyone is tired of him and his buddies. They hijacked the entire forum and turned it into a drama place. Didn’t violate a single rule doing that yet he got banned. Two guys who are far more knowledgeable than Steve and his buddies combined. They have stalked them relentlessly. One because they know me and are friends. Also because they are knowledgeable enough to see through Steve’s lies and that makes them a threat to Steve. They stalked them on the forum and even went after ones business. They have made ridiculous accusations against them with no evidence whatsoever. He’s even gone after guys in the industry. He accused Brian Litz of faking the bc tests and falsifying the results to make hammers look bad. The truth is that Steve lies and greatly exaggerates his bc’s and that proved it. He also went after Nathan Foster one of the top terminal ballistics experts in the world. Steve tried recruiting him to promote hammer bullets. When he refused and pointed out issues with both their design and their flawed views on terminal ballistics. Steve went ballistic and went on a campaign to try and discredit him. That’s Steve’s go to move is trying to discredit anyone who can show Steve as wrong and his bullets bad. That’s only a small fraction of what he has done. They have done stuff not only being extremely unethical but also violating the law. They tried lying to KZbin to get my videos pulled showing bad results. In doing so they committed felony perjury not once but 3 separate times. Even KZbin said they were greatly concerned by their actions. That’s not even covering the law violations of the consumer protection act. He just teamed up and did a video to ban lead core bullets. The guys who he teamed up with are anti hunters and anti gun groups. They openly admit they have the goal of banning all guns, banning hunting, and banning lead bullets. The video was propaganda and nothing was actually factual. Even doing fake tests and fake results. Steve went on there to proclaim that his bullets are the best and superior to everything else. When he got major backlash for it especially since it was for personal gain and helping the enemy. He started attacking everyone who said anything. He tried claiming that he doesn’t want lead bullets banned. Until someone posted a screenshot of him admitting that he and Brian actually do want to ban lead core bullets. Then there’s the aoudad video where he tried covering up what he did. There was a group of rams all tightly together with the big ram in the middle. He was told that there was not a clean shot as they couldn’t tell what exactly was behind it. He shot literally right after he was told he didn’t have a shot. He did it anyway and that’s a big problem here. Not only because he violated basic firearm safety. He brags about how his bullets penetrate deep and pass through. Then he shot into a group right after being told he didn’t have a clean shot. He shot through it and killed a baby aoudad. Then they proceeded to move the ram to a different spot and hid the baby out of sight. Then went back and filmed a staged recovery trying to make it seem like a good shot. Problem was someone was watching the video and noticed that the baby could be seen behind the ram in the video. As soon as they realized that he had the video pulled so nobody could see it. Then he tried spinning his own story to counter the video. Because nobody could see it nobody could contradict him. He tried claiming that he was told that he had a clear shot by the guide. That the ram was alone and the baby was back in the trees. That they didn’t discover the baby until after they were leaving. He claimed that he owned up and offered to pay for it but they declined because he was so honest. Problem is for him that he has a history of doing stuff like this. The guy who called him out knew that he would remove the video so he screen recorded it and contacted me. The video clearly shows that Steve was flat out lying. The baby died right next to the ram not back in the trees. He wasn’t told to shoot or that he was clear. The recovery would have shown the baby right next to his ram. He got caught red handed trying to cover it up twice and lying about it. His bullets have issues but they don’t compare to how bad the owners are. They bully and try to silence anyone who doesn’t bow down to them or proves them wrong. Then when they are called out for it they lie and try playing the victim. They are hands down the shadiest company I have ever seen in the industry. I can honestly say that I have never seen anything like it before. The owners don’t have a clue what they’re doing. They won’t even listen to actual experts like Nathan etc. Their only qualifications is that they shot water jugs together and started a bullet company. They literally bought the equipment and didn’t know how to use it. People helped them along the way and Steve stabbed them in the back. There’s a long trail of people who they have screwed over. Here’s the video on bullet failures that you might find interesting. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqmtmZWfq9J8epY

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Honestly that’s not even scratching the surface of everything. Here’s the aoudad video that he lied about. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2KniXiwnrV4i7c

[@dalebenson6859]

I am shooting Barns 30 cal - 165 Grain TSX from a 16 inch barrel from 7.62x39 in an AR 15 and killing deer dead with recovered bullets are full expanded. I load Barns 35 cal 200 grain TTSX into a 35 Remington with 5 Roosevelt Elk stoned dead and 5 of these bullets recovered in full expansion. I have guided in Alaska since 1989 to 2019 and I required clients to being Barns ammo with TSX bullets or GMX bullets because nearly all lead core bullets don't cut it on large Yukon Moose and Brown bears. I have yet to find a 9.3 286 grain Barns TSX bullet I fired from my 9.3x62 Mauser at Brown bears or Yukon Moose but the total wreckage to the vital Organs is horrific! / Opening up a moose shot by the 9.3x62 using a Barns TSX 286 grain bullet the blood and muck + blown organs runs like a river from the moose once cut open.

[@matthewcapello8121]

Love the Ron Swanson chart in the background 👍👊

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

One of the best shows out there

[@JR-lg7fd]

he's more like Nick Offerman from The Last of Us

[@anthonymurphy2540]

Like my partition bullets and tsx bullet, if it’s not not broken why try something else but I am looking for a new new bullet for my new 7 wsm.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

What’s your twist rate and are you looking for a lead core bullet or monolithic?

[@anthonymurphy2540]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 well thinking of getting one of those carbon fiber barrels for my new bullet !!

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

Barnes 140, 145, or 150 gr. TTSX/LRX.

[@chadwallace3598]

Do the Barnes bullets do the same thing? Or the hornady cx?

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yes Barnes has a history of issues like this that’s ultimately why I stopped using them. However they are still better designed than hammer. Barnes, Hornady GMX, and CX all can fail and end up penciling, changing direction, and or tumbling. That’s not exclusive to monolithic bullets either. Lead core bullets can have it happen with hollow points. The tip clogs and results in the bullet necking over. Monolithics due to hardness of copper and design are more prone to it though. Hammers design makes it way more prone to having issues. A buddy two seasons ago finally gave up on Barnes. He was hunting elk with his 300 rum with a ttsx. First shot broadside went in a couple inches and turned left exiting the left butt cheek. Luckily for him it hit the artery so it couldn’t run far. He shot it again in the vitals and this time it went straight but didn’t expand and penciled through. He then did a head shot and it dropped. All the shots were inside 200 yards at high velocity. One failed to expand and changed directions. It went in and turned right on the inside of the ribs. It didn’t even damage the lungs. The second bullet went through the lungs but very minimal damage. The lungs didn’t even collapse. That really bothered him and all 3 shots were perfect kill shots for placement. That was the final straw against Barnes. He’s now running eld match and having great success.

[@jeffersonsmith6109]

A long range hunter concerned with hunting ethics and what helps hunters and what helps us in the gun industry. Pretty rich!

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I hate to burst your bubble with facts but… It’s pretty rich to think that hunters don’t care because they hunt differently than you. Modern long range hunting has been around for 150 years. Long range hunters are more ethical than the vast majority of short range hunters. We train more, are better shots, have better equipment, are highly selective of our shots, pass up more shots than most hunters, etc. most short range hunters only practice right before season starts and are using basic equipment. They will shoot at almost anything and take any shot because they are close and don’t think they can miss. We have the ability to hunt close up or far making us much more rounded hunters. The average hunter is aiming at the whole chest area hoping for a good hit. We pick the exact spot for point of aim point of impact. We also spend extensive amounts of time studying bullets. We then pick out the best bullets and use them. The average hunter just grabs a box and hunts with them without any real research. So really we are some of the most ethical hunters out there. Just saying.

[@kevinfox2370]

Help me understand why the use of ballistic gel? I can't see how it pairs with a hunting situation and you are shooting through hide, bone, etc.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

So ballistics gel mimics what happens when a bullet impacts tissue of a water based mammal. That’s the reason why it was created to test what happens. Now it’s not the exact same but it is very close to what happens in real life. Bullet companies test gel and they test the bullets hunting and study/ compare the results. Even with people the data collected from law enforcement etc. The FBI collects and analyses it and so does the bullet companies. They have found that the gel accurately reflects what the bullet will do in a actual body human or animal. That’s why it’s universally used for testing. There are some misconceptions however around gel from people who don’t actually know what they’re talking about. The difference in 10 percent or 20 percent gel is a great example. I’ve heard people claim that 10 percent is only for testing handguns and 20 percent is for rifles. Another is that 10 percent is for humans and 20 percent is for animals. Both of those are complete nonsense and wrong. 10 percent gel is what is used for both animal and human ballistic testing. 20 percent gel came about because of NATO. NATO because of The Hague Convention only uses fmj’s. When trying to test them in gel they had poor results obviously. So they increased the gel density to make the results look better. 20 precent gel is only used for nato testing. That and people who don’t actually know what it is actually for. Now I actually will add actual untanned hide, meat, and bones with my gel to show people what happens. Honestly bones don’t offer nearly as much resistance to the bullet as people tend to believe. Even taking plain gel and one with hide, meat, and bones. The results side by side are almost identical. In the body you have empty space like air in the lungs. So you have a big portion of the bullet path that doesn’t have any resistance. Plus you just have the hide, ribs, and some meat which can be from .5” to 1.5” thick. After that it’s just thin lung walls and air. The gel is the same density throughout the entire block. So even though the gel doesn’t have bones or meat it’s still matching as they balance each other out. Ballistics gel allows you to do testing in a controlled and consistent way. I can say that with all the different bullets I’ve put in gel and hunting with the results were the same.

[@JohnBustt]

I just don’t see the bad design of the Hammer Bullets. Weatherby specifically loads a bunch of their special calibers in Hammer Bullets, and were one of the first to commercially do so. I honestly don’t think Weatherby would let their name be soiled by a bad bullet company. ESPECIALLY when Weatherby is a know cartridge company. Idk, I’m buying some for my wife’s 25-06 and we will see.

[@wesgarrett42]

Dead in its tracks , don't care about anything else . Game over . Berger are target bullets not hunting bullets. Hammer and Cutting Edge are great bullets period .

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Except that it wasn’t dead in its tracks it was paralyzed from a spinal hit but was still alive. Also the video has literally nothing to do with Berger bullets or cutting edge. Not only were you wrong about the deer being dead in its tracks. You are also wrong about Berger bullets. They are literally designed and marketed for hunting. Maybe next time you will actually do some research before making a comment on something you clearly don’t know anything about or bringing up bullets that have nothing to do with the video. There’s a lot of evidence proving that hammer bullets are not great period. Lots of bad performance and failures reported. More than any other bullet that I know of.

[@Tony_Seed]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223sounds like a shooter problem

[@joelblackburn7177]

Gel is great test buuuuut Ive shot piles of deer and a few coyotes. and never had any issues.

[@yeartiger8978]

Us hunters from the communist state don’t have a choice but use them, we are not allowed to use lead bullets. Recommendations on copper bullets that perform better for us please.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Hey bud sorry to hear you're stuck with that problem. Honestly of the solids (monolithic) the worst are badlands precision llc and hammer bullets. There's really no great one out there to be honest. DRT used to have one that was very good for a solid but unfortunately they changed it apparently and it's not the same. Barnes ttsx will get the job done but like all solids you got to have high velocity impacts to get performance and run lighter bullets to reduce mass. Lehigh defense is one of the better designed ones with material removed to aid in expansion by lowering the amount of impact resistance required. I've heard good things about cutting edge but I haven't used them yet so I can't say if they are good or bad. Hornady has the gmx which is decent

[@DuoBart0n]

Barnes or nosler e tips. Don’t be afraid to put them into the shoulder either.

[@jmgates09]

I like the Barnes tsx over the tipped ones

[@1413Coyote]

You obviously have an axe to grind….

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

I only use Barnes TTSX and TSX on any hunt, irrespective of lead free requirements. Used them n Australia, Texas, Africa, New Zealand, nothing works better than Barnes TTSX and TSX.

[@loganfurst3010]

Ultimately they cost 80 dollars for 50 bullets so who cares i wouldnt even bother trying them when there are a million other options from hornady berger etc.....

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

You are right you can get a lot of great bullets for way less money. For those who do want to spend the money for monolithics. They should know before they buy if it’s a good bullet or a waste of time and money. That way they can not waste money and they know what kind of a company they are dealing with.

[@Cardshark913]

I have watched your videos and Hammers. I am not a member of this "cult" Just a guy looking for a quality source of quality bullets. I load the 166 HH in 300 WSM and have shot gel and water jugs looking for a reason to not like them I have always had good performance. I have not put any on game because I dont want to use something without 100% confidence in a successful quick harvest. I have looked through other comments and cant find you giving a definitive recommendation, just a lot of "well it aint great, but its better" Is there a bullet you (or anyone reading this) does recommend to try out that will be better? Or are we all just pissin in the wind?

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

You should watch the new video on bullet failures. There’s quite a few examples of hammer in there. As for monolithic bullets that I recommend. Cavity back bullets is my top recommendation. I did a video on them in gel and it was impressive. Makers is another one that I recommend. Im testing out the Apex afterburners this weekend. Now I’ve already seen quite a few examples of terminal performance with them from the owner and other sources. It looks promising but I won’t know until I test it out. If you’re looking for something non lead but not a monolithic. The DRT terminal shock is a great choice. It’s got a powdered compressed core and looks just like a smk. It doesn’t have any of the limitations of monolithic bullets and performs very well. I like the fact that you want 100 percent confidence in a bullet before shooting game with it. That’s something I respect and wish more people would do. If you have any questions about the recommendations above or anything else just ask. Good luck this season and happy hunting.

[@dougholbert4612]

Your looking in the wrong place if your trying to get good info from this bozo

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

Barnes TTSX or TSX

[@MR6.5]

I just do not like solid copper bullets. In my humble opinion there is no better bullet than the Norma Bondstrike, at least for me.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I’m not a fan of copper bullets personally. Between the lies, misinformation, and politics of it. They have lots of limitations and don’t perform as well terminally. Monolithics has the highest failure rate of all bullets. There is literally nothing you can’t do with a lead core bullet. Only real advantage of solid copper is for animals like hippos and elephants. Even then though they have lead core bullets for that too. I have no problem spending money for the best. What I won’t do is over pay for something that isn’t as good and has a higher failure rate.

[@jmgates09]

Have you tried Federals Terminal Accent Randy???

[@MR6.5]

@@jmgates09 No I have not, I read up, Thanks!

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

Try some Barnes TTSX or TSX. Terminal performance is unparalleled

[@MR6.5]

@@jmgates09 I killed a beautiful 8 point with the Terminal Ascent 2 weeks ago, BANG FLOP! That is a wonderful bullet thanks for the recommendation!

[@scitzmnm]

Piece of copper with a hole in it. Which is why it’s an alloy and they don’t use pure copper, and spent a lot of time finding an alloy that works correctly.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Well they should keep looking because there bullets have a lot of issues working properly. Of course that also has to do with the terrible design. I’ve heard Steve’s claims of his “extensive and expensive search” for the perfect copper. 🙄😂 It’s nothing more than a marketing pitch. Which is highly ironic that he claims that yet half the time he’s been confronted with failures he’s tried blaming the batch of copper. If he spend all the time and money on that extensive search for the perfect copper then why is he always blaming the batch of copper? Other monolithic companies don’t have that problem or blame the copper batch. The truth is the story about the extensive search is nothing more than a marketing tactic. The truth is that Steve will blame anything and everything for the reports of failures and issues. He’s got a long history of embellishing, lying, blaming everything and everyone else.

[@tyler6857]

The new video shows how unethical a shot that hunter made. Really, much more to the right & hammer could have advertised their product hammer brand all copper boat tailed hollow point hunting suppositories.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yup I slowed it down and it it impacts the rear of front shoulder. It was so close to the body with the angle I had to slow it down to really tell. Slowed down you can clearly see the impact and dust come off the body. Shot placement and angle was bad to begin with. A Texas heart shot if it had been more right is a unethical shot too. It gut shots the animal and if the bullet doesn't reach the vitals it's a slow painful death. Even if you get vitals and it runs off and dies it's still gut shot which can ruin the meat.

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

LOL, I thought I was the only one who saw that. Shit shot.

[@RF-cz4ln]

Appreciate the info , Barnes will probably be my choice .

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Barnes can have issues too if you’re wanting to go with a monolithic. Look at makers bullets and cavity back bullets. Both are top end monolithics.

[@AllanKapusta]

They're great. The guy that said they didn't drop an animal well is doing a bad shot. Its placement

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

All the failures, bad performance, wounded animals say otherwise.

[@johnjenkins2024]

is this thor hammer bullets?

[@ryanhodge3072]

You can just tell the way the animals act when hit not to mention seeing the bullet veer off track just the way they act it’s obvious it’s not transferring energy

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yup exactly! Funny enough when this along with other evidence of poor performance was shown to hammer. They responded by saying that it doesn’t matter because energy doesn’t exist. 🤦‍♂️ They tried justifying that statement by referencing a paper written by someone. I say someone because the author wouldn’t even put their name on the paper. The paper is a waste of paper honestly. Seems more like a school project where you have to creatively argue against something. Either way even the author won’t own his own paper. So apparently some random guy with no credentials knows more than all the industry experts. 🙄🤦‍♂️ What’s even funnier is that hammer claims that paper was the basis for their bullet design since the beginning. Yet they literally until recently bragged about how well their bullets transfer energy both in writing and in videos. They even said it in a video after they claimed that energy doesn’t exist. Currently they are trying to create new terms to describe energy transfer to try and get around them claiming that energy doesn’t exist. I honestly don’t know why anyone believes anything they say. They literally contradict themselves constantly. Even their own “evidence” proves them wrong. Even this video shows that. The fact that they tried to alter the video to try and hide the failure. That shows that they know that it is an issue. If it wasn’t then they would have no reason to try and hide it. Anyone with basic knowledge of terminal ballistics can see that it performs poorly and doesn’t transfer energy.

[@redleg84]

Not sure what's worse with hammer bullets, the performance the shooters or the cost

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Something I've noticed since this whole thing started is not a single person defending hammer bullets has had any knowledge in terminal ballistics or bullet construction. Not meant as a insult just a observation. In all the discussions not a single person has said anything besides what hammer marketing says. When I point out flaws they just revert back to hammers marketing claims. Now I have had a couple later on after I've given full breakdowns of terminal ballistics and bullets. They have tried to say stuff I have said back to me but never prior to me explaining it. Even then they don't understand fully so it's doesn't make sense. I can't speak for them and their shooting abilities as I have only talked terminal ballistics and bullets with them. The costs of the bullets is ridiculous you can get far superior bullets for less.

[@redleg84]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I will say that they have their marketing down pat. Can't be in a bullet conversation without someone pushing hammer bullets. Lehigh has had similar bullets for much cheaper for a long time and doesn't have near the following.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Problem is nothing they have done is new. The design isn't new, their band to reduce friction isn't new, etc. Yet people buy it hook line and sinker. To the point where they can look at physical evidence proving it's not new and doesn't perform well and still defend bad performance. Hell even this shows clearly that they altered footage to prevent people seeing poor performance. People are arguing and trying to defend it. Last video they altered the footage zooming in and it clearly shows especially when I slowed it down the accubond clearly won the gel comparison. Not only that but they tried to make it appear that the accubond wound cavity stopped at the end of the first block yet the bullet went 3/4 of the way into the second block. The permanent wound cavity goes until the bullet stops. The fact people can look at that and deny it is insane

[@appaloosaman9616]

@@redleg84 I haven’t seen hardly any marketing even their website has very little. The ones that have been doing most all the marketing have been the customer’s. Word of mouth is how I heard about them. And it show’s in the comments here the only one with any complaints about hammer bullets that I have come across so far is the disgruntled guy making the video. Hornady is the absolute master of marketing in the bullet world the sell people on all kinds of crap.

[@bjcoveney5306]

No mention of barns… Humm, Never had any problems with barns..(especially hogs) How ever “solids” are not none for passed 400 yards.. What caliber? 7mm or larger? Killing is always bigger caliber…

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Well I don’t know what barns have to do with this. I don’t hunt in barns for hogs or anything else. I guess you could use a barn like a big blind and shoot from the top floor. With a little bit of work you could make a nice setup in a barn and have everything you need right there. As for the rest you are completely wrong on several levels. All bullets maximum range is based off the minimum impact velocity. This is based off the bullets construction and design. The same bullet in a different cartridge will hit the minimum impact velocity at a different distance. So throwing out a blanket number for all is not accurate and just plain wrong. Killing is always a bigger caliber is even more incorrect than the 400 yards for solids. Diameter plays a factor in terminal ballistics but it’s only one small part of it. A smaller caliber great bullet can outperform a larger caliber crappy bullet in terminal ballistics. I have literally done a video demonstrating that. Good luck with your barn project hopefully you get it setup and get some hogs out of it this year.

[@nonetheless01]

You clearly don't understand what your talking bout. Ballistic gel is a poor medium especially if your using 10 percent for rifle bullets, I now have numerous kills myself and have in person seen other kills , I have pics of some of them and you can put your fist through several of the holes , I don't have a specific like pr dislike for any bullet company but your wrong about hammers , they work well they just don't have good bc numbers , you also clearly don't understand what oil in the tip.of a hollow point does .

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

You know you hammer guys absolutely crack me up. Not exactly the brightest bunch out there. It’s even funnier that you try claiming that I don’t know what I’m talking about and then instantly show you don’t know what you’re talking about with ballistics gel. There’s a reason why gel is the gold standard of testing bullets. Everyone from independent testers, bullet companies, fbi, law enforcement, military, etc all use ballistic gel. It does accurately show what you can expect and gives a good controlled testing media for comparison. The fact that it does translate into real world results has been heavily documented. FBI, private places, and bullet companies receive and study autopsies to compare against the gel results. Bullet manufacturers actually hunt with bullets as part of their testing in R&D and compare the results to the gel tests. The only people who think gel is a poor way to test bullets are people who don’t have a clue about ballistic or they don’t like the results so they try and discredit it. You clearly fit into both those categories. Also your comment about using rifles in 10 precent gel is a poor medium is wrong and demonstrates that you don’t know what you’re talking about. 10 precent gel is the standard testing for all rifle and pistol bullets in the US. There is some guy’s who don’t know anything trying to claim that 10 percent is just for pistols to make them look good. That rifles use 20 percent gel and that better represents rifles on animals. Both are completely wrong by people who don’t have a clue or both to do research. 10 percent gel is used for testing both hunting and self defense ammunition in both pistols and rifles. 20 percent gel was designed for NATO for testing fmj ammunition. They were getting poor results so they increased the density to 20 percent to attempt to make the tests look better. The funny part is that even Steve of hammer bullets proves you wrong. He uses the exact same 10 percent gel from clear ballistics that I use. Again he uses the EXACT SAME ballistics gel as I do for his testing. I literally have screenshots of Steve saying that his results in gel were identical to the performance on animals. Again he staid that it was exactly the same. The only time it’s not for him is when he’s trying to discredit others results because he doesn’t like it. So even Steve proves you wrong about gel. Speaking of gel and the even more hilarious part of all of this. You hammer guy’s use the same playbook. You guys come here trying to put down my ballistics gel results on this video. You try and claim that you aren’t a fanboy. You try and say that all I have is the gel results. And you all show that you never actually watched the video. You guys are just popping on to drop comments to discredit me and defend hammer. I know this because this video doesn’t have anything to do with ballistics gel. This is a video of covering how they tried altering a video to hide performance issues and failures on a deer. They tried using the feedback to cover up and hide the issues. If you had actually watched the video you would know that. Because you didn’t you just made the same comment that all the other hammer guys who never watched the video made. I’m not going just off gel either for my assessment. I’ve also got the data from hunting studying the terminal performance on animals. Everything I have said has been accurate and proven both on game and in gel. I get sent pictures etc of failures and issues with hammer. Even the other day on the range a buddy was doing load development for a client with hammers and testing. He definitely wasn’t a fan of hammers by the end of the day. Both in the exaggerated bc and the performance. You guys can continue to blindly defend hammer while ignoring all the evidence against them. You can ignore all the lies from hammer that has been proven to be lies. You can ignore the shady stuff like trying to hide or cover up issues. I won’t do that and will continue to show everything. Consumers have the right to know. That way they know who they are spending their money with and what they’re getting. Also literally nothing in any of my videos talking about the oil in the tip of the bullet. That comment makes zero sense. Word of advice before you get on somewhere trying to claim that they don’t know what they’re talking about. You should actually know what you’re talking about. Hammer seems to attract guy’s who really don’t know very much and believe anything they are told. You would be amazed how many times I’ve proven a hammer cult or fanboy wrong using hammers own website or something Steve said.

[@nonetheless01]

@longrangehuntinggroup7223 lol , I don't know who Steve is and I'm no hammer guy , I have been fortunate to spend the last 20 years working in ballistics and I can tell you your a fool , you have no idea what your talking about, your wrong , period and your also a jackass . Thumbs down on all your videos and in case you missed it your a jackass.

[@RookCustoms]

😴😴😴Ya but there are hundreds of videos hell Ron Spooooooner is using them I guess your saying he's a plant too. Bro your barking about a bullet that has been fielded and used across many different game types. It was proven and is a far gone conclusion at this point. Instead of jumping up and down and crying wolf. Go shoot them use them put time in like what a real gear tester would do. After a year then you can bring us your findings. This bullet will have the same problem all solid copper bullets have. You are mouse speaking for cheese at this point. ​@@longrangehuntinggroup7223

[@edbredemeyer2833]

Man--I have been using them...they ...work...good. Everyone mileage varies--I think if YOU kill more stuff you will change your mind.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I kill plenty of animals year round with lots of different bullets. The amount of failures and issues that I have seen with hammers is astounding. Not to mention all the shady stuff that the company has done. Like teaming up with anti hunting groups, lying, trying to bully customers who report bad results into silence, etc. By the way I love how you deleted your first comment with my response and reposted it you comment.

[@edbredemeyer2833]

Deleted nothing... Again, good on you.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@edbredemeyer2833funny because you made this comment Sunday and I responded. Then that comment disappeared and I got a new email yesterday with this comment. I have screenshots showing both and when they were posted. I do that because you hammer guys have a habit of trying to be sneaky or deny stuff. So I document everything. 😉

[@NorthRiverGuide]

I've killed a LOT of stuff with fmj, it doesn't mean fmj are particularly good performers terminally compared to other bullets. Pretty much any bullet can kill, especially when using unnecessary cartridges on small animals.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@NorthRiverGuideexactly you can kill with any bullet as long as shot placement is good. That doesn’t translate into it being good just because the animal died. That’s like saying that a geo metro is just like a Ferrari on a race track because both cars can pass the finish line. Yes both can drive from start to finish. However the difference in performance and speed is huge. I love how these hammer guys only focus on positive feedback and straight out ignore anything negative. I literally have screenshots of the same hammer guys. One is them denying seeing any issues or failures ever and it’s been nothing but amazing performance. Then I have screenshots of them on forums. Literally talking to people who are reporting issues and failures. They always say call Steve or they attack them for daring to challenge hammer bullets. It’s really quite amusing how they will flat out lie about never hearing or seeing issues. Yet they have been presented with lots of evidence and reports. What’s even more comical and hypocritical is guys like edbredemeyer. They try and attack my gel testing and try and claim that it’s not accurate. Yet hammer uses the exact same gel that I do for testing. So when hammer does it then it’s accurate and great way to test performance. The same guys will turn around and try and claim that my test isn’t accurate because gel doesn’t work. 🤦‍♂️ I know it’s beyond stupid but it’s literally something that they claim. I’ve even used their own footage from gel and animals to prove them wrong. They just ignore that and keep trying to attack me and my testing. It’s pretty comical at this point how hard they are trying to silence anyone who doesn’t give positive feedback and myself. They know that there is issues which is why they have tried so hard to silence people.

[@joelodjick230]

Thanks for saving me double the cost of TTSX/LRX and the suffering of wounded animals. I'm sure when they work the Hammers are dynamite but that's clearly not always.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Honestly even at their best they aren’t that great. The design itself is flawed and has lots of issues. If you watch my new video on the apex afterburners. It’s the same type of bullet shedding pedals and shank continues. It’s a much better design than hammers. That said even with that you will see the issues with that type of bullet. What is claimed especially by hammer. Is that the shank will cause massive displacement and continue going through at a higher velocity. As you will see in the apex video the shank barely causes any wounding. So small that I had to watch the slow motion to figure out where it went in the catch gel blocks. Apex is better than hammer in design so it should give you a better idea of how bad hammer can be even with the best performance

[@highcountryprecision4639]

Most bullets are an upgrade to the Barnes especially on elk.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@highcountryprecision4639 i agree Barnes aren’t that great and most bullets will outperform them. There’s a couple though that are worse than Barnes

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

I have never had an animal walk after being hit by a Barnes. Never. Even a Red stag shot mid torso....@@longrangehuntinggroup7223

[@Murphy_13507]

Looks like it was shot in the ham and went through.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Nope when slowed down you can clearly follow the bullet path. It’s outside the body going past the rear leg and mid body. It impacts right behind the shoulder.

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

This is the same guy who trashed Barnes bullets. He referenced gel tests and “temporary” wound channels. There’s no such thing as a temporary wound channel in flesh. Again, in this video, he states that an animal dropping in place is not excellent performance 😂. Really? Isn’t that the preferred result? Maybe he just like to track wounded animals.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

You know I always find it highly amusing when guys try and tell me that I don’t know what I’m talking about. Then they instantly say something that shows that they clearly don’t know what they’re talking about. This comment is nothing short of desperation to try and discredit me and the video. The attempts have been nothing short of comical what you guys try. From crazy theories, lies, conspiracy theories, and making up stuff. You saying that the temporary wound cavity doesn’t exist is ridiculous. That’s the equivalent of saying that the human body doesn’t have blood in it. It’s completely wrong and there’s mountains of evidence showing that you are wrong. Every single legitimate expert will tell you that it’s real. The temporary wound cavity aka hydraulic shock, hydrostatic shock, energy, etc is extremely well documented in human and animal tissue. Ballistics gel is literally made and calibrated to mimic the tissue of animals and humans. Anyone who has even basic knowledge knows that. Even Steve of hammer bullets proves you wrong. He has stated that his gel tests using the exact same gel that I use. It exactly matches the results in the field that they have seen. The only time that he claims gel isn’t good or accurate is when the results aren’t good. Then he tries using it as a scapegoat. Just like he tries to blame issues and failures on anything he can. What you guys forget and try to avoid is that I don’t just shoot gel. I started using gel simply to show comparisons of different bullets. Prior to that all of my testing was in the field hunting with different bullets and documenting. I still hunt with different bullets and document the results. Which anyone who actually watches my videos knows. I am not basing the hammer results on just gel either. I get sent plenty of evidence of issues and failures with hammer. Everything from videos, pictures, etc. I just got some new ones a couple weeks ago. The bullet failed on an elk and didn’t even expand. The guide said that it was the fourth hammer bullet to fail on them this season. You guys can continue to blindly defend hammer bullets. The evidence proves you wrong regardless if you want to see it or not. Now since you obviously don’t know much about terminal ballistics. There is a big difference between a spinal shot without shutting down the cns and a cns shot. You can hit the spine and paralyze it without causing a fatal wound and results in a long painful death. The deer in the video dropped because it got paralyzed by an injury to the spine when the bullet changed directions. It was paralyzed from the shoulders back. In the video you can clearly see it’s got its head up and is looking around. That’s not from a muscle spasm from loss of signal from the brain. The animal was still alive and conscious. That requires a follow up shot to put it out of its misery. That’s very different from a cns shot where all signals to the brain are cut causing the animal to instantly die and drop. So no just because an animal drops doesn’t mean that it’s dead. If it drops from a cns shot where it’s actually dead before it hits the ground then that’s good. By the way once again hammer proves you wrong. If there wasn’t a failure and a bad shot/result then why did hammer alter the video to attempt to hide the change of direction and failure? The fact that they did that shows that I’m right. If not then they would have left it alone. Once again your argument that the temporary wound cavity doesn’t exist in tissue is beyond comical. Some advice is to stop saying that because it instantly discredits you. Especially since it is so extensively documented and every single expert talks about it. I appreciate the good laugh and you helping out the channel by commenting. That’s great for the algorithm.

[@cameronwalters6692]

I've had better luck with hammer than eld-x

[@bigshowthe-tn-redneck2471]

I agree 100%

[@Drivapete]

Don't be sucked into the hype on these "new and improved" products! I've shot many tried tested and true 'obsolete' bullets in the last 45yrs of hunting to know that the Remington Cor-lokt bullets, Winchester Silver Tips, Speer Grand Slam, anything Nosler and anything Barnes, not to mention a few classic Hornady bullets just plain work! How many deer, elk and hogs I've humanely harvested with a Barnes, Winchester or Remington bullet still remains a mystery to me! I've finally settled on Barnes TTSX and Nosler Accubond bullets as my go to bullets of choice. Berger, Hornady ELDX, Sierra TGK bullets are expensive junk (in my opinion) and I've learned this the hard way!

[@keithcondon9871]

Five deer, five hammer bullets, worked flawlessly. I think this guys just trying to stir up controversy to get views. Meanwhile, more and more people are switching to Hammers everyday and they are getting EXACTLY the results that Hammer advertises.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Translation you didn’t watch the video and only came here to comment. You guys crack me up because you’re like a broken record. Except you don’t have a valid argument. There’s not tons of people switching to them but I know of plenty who aren’t. I know plenty who stopped using them because of issues, failures, everything Steve does, or all the above. Steve and his buddies have a bad habit of lying about stuff like that. Like him claiming that during the testing of their new tipped bullets thousands of animals were killed. That it was superior performance even better than the original. Except that is a flat out lie and his own people proved that. His guy who did the testing posted the results of all the animals he killed during the testing of them. There was only 24 animals killed not thousands. Then his marketing director posted a full list of every animal killed with all hammer bullets. The list was just over 600 animals total from around the world including every type of hammer bullet. Or how he has been caught lying about his BC’s and drastically inflating them. Or when he lied saying that he has never seen a failure with his bullets. Except he had just publicly in a forum been provided with multiple failures including pictures. Or him lying about not wanting lead bullets banned when he got backlash for teaming up with anti hunters to get lead banned. Then someone posted a screenshot of Steve admitting that he and Brian both want to ban lead. Or when he lied about clear ballistics claiming that they told him that he couldn’t penetrate two gel blocks. Claiming that he did and sent pictures to clear ballistics. That their response was that it was so incredible and they couldn’t believe it. Except guess what it’s another lie and even clear ballistics verified it wasn’t true. They specifically state on their website that they don’t guarantee that it will stop a bullet. They even said that even with multiple blocks they won’t guarantee it and that they would never tell anyone that it could stop it. Steve even tried lying about the size of the gel block trying to make it seem more impressive. He got proven wrong on that one too. If you’re going to try defending someone you might want to find someone else who isn’t a pathological liar like steve. By the way the trying to get views part is comical. If I was trying to get views picking a company that is so small would be stupid. Picking a huge company would be how to get views. If I was just after views there’s ten thousand better ways to do that. Just jumping on trends and doing dumb videos would get me way more views than covering a small bullet company and the shady stuff they have done and the issues with their products. I don’t know why you guys keep trying the same dumb arguments like trying to get views.

[@keithcondon9871]

There’s a lot there… Let me make sure I understand you. 1. Steve is a liar. 2. Steve is a liar. 3. Steve is a liar. Pretty much sums up your argument right? I would like to point out where you sir, are certainly not telling the truth. You did not recover a hammer bullet from a gel block that had tumbled and not shed its petals. You do not have any evidence of that happening, you inferred that all on your own, no doubt fueled by your own inflated sense of ballistic expertise. You see, I did watch your video and I find your arguments to be false, unproven and frankly ridiculous. Not as ridiculous as your weird and unexplained fixation on the owners of hammer bullets. If I’m wrong, shoot a gel block on video and prove your argument.

[@Wheelchair-bear]

Wait, how many deer have you lost because of the poor performance of bullets? GELL does not react the same as game. Weatherby would not load an inferior bullet in their premium plus hunting ammo.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

That’s not correct gel is used by everyone for a reason. It allows for controlled testing that simulates and shows what a bullet will do terminally. Anyone who is telling you otherwise is lying to you. Even Steve of hammer bullets has said that his gel tests directly reflect what he sees from game. I actually have lost a couple animals with poor performance bullets and seen lots more lots. That’s why I no longer use certain bullets. Weatherby is just overpriced company that hasn’t kept up with the times. Their own cartridges are expensive and not efficient. Lots of people don’t buy them just because of that.

[@JohnSokol-t9d]

Weatherby needs to load rounds that support the MOA guarantee. There is no Weatherby guarantee with respect to terminal performance.

[@kenwiltsie6920]

Bash hammer and now weatherby!!! I don’t think you need a channel.

[@Wheelchair-bear]

​@@longrangehuntinggroup7223Hair, hide, muscle, fat, bone and blood do not react the same to a bullet as ballistic gell. That is a fact, whoever told you that, is ignorant or a liar.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@Wheelchair-bearright so all the industry experts are wrong and you’re right. 😂 You guys crack me up with the nonsense you come up with.

[@johnreynolds250]

I'm new to hammer bullets but wasent that a bad angle to shoot that deer? Even lead would've kissed off any deer like that shot.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yes that was a bad shot angle for any bullet. Unfortunately they advocate taking bad and unethical shots. Here’s the owner taking one and then trying to cover it up. They staged it afterwards to hide it. Then when he got exposed he had the video pulled so nobody could see it and then lied trying to spin his own narrative to make him look better. Here’s the video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2KniXiwnrV4i7c

[@brandonbrown3299]

Hammers work great. Keep them over 1700fps for good expansion. This dudes a real no it all. Or is he?

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Yup except all those failures including hammers own videos. Oh and even the two failures on the same animal at 90 yards from a hog their media manager had on video. 😉

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

"This dudes a real no it all" I think the word you're looking for is KNOW. 😉😁

[@brandonbrown3299]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 exactly 😅

[@mtconrad33]

Hammer bullets are the best on earth. You sir, are not fit to critique them. Go outside and play.

[@NorthRiverGuide]

They are a copy of other company's discontinued bullets that were changed just enough to avoid patent infringement.

[@roadkillanonymous4807]

@@NorthRiverGuide disagree…y’all ain’t referring to GS custom are you? They’ve openly acknowledged that GS custom was an inspiration but it’s notably different too

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@roadkillanonymous4807 have you ever seen them side by side? It’s too bad that you can’t post pictures here in the comments. I have a picture of a hammer hunter next to a GSC. The only difference is the hammer has a slightly longer boat tail and the bands are rounded. Besides that they are identical from the hole size to the to the shape of the ogive. Ironically the GS custom wasn’t a very good bullet. Hammer being basically a modified clone has issues too. They are very similar and just barely different. It’s like having identical twins get different hair cuts and wear different clothes. They might have those slight differences but they are still identical twins. That’s basically what you have with hammer and GSC.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@roadkillanonymous4807 something interesting is a common thing said by the hammer cult. Especially two of them Butterbean and Brett Ford. They always say that you should forget everything you know and clear your mind. I was reading something on GSC website for a question someone had. Guess what I saw on their website. It literally says that you should clear your mind etc. Ironic that hammers bullets are basically a slightly modified version of a GSC. On top of that hammer cult uses the same thing about forgetting what you have been taught and clear your mind. Reading GSC’s website was like deja vu of what hammer says.

[@rickpowshuk3081]

So what​@@roadkillanonymous4807

[@darrellmorse1894]

Terrible shot angle by the shooter.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Definitely even bit turned it was already a bad shot that just got worse. Unfortunately the owner actually advocates people taking bad unethical shots and does them himself. I just got sent a video of him hunting a aoudad in Texas. He had a group of them bundled together. He literally said “I can’t tell if I’m clear behind it or if there’s a animal behind it” then a second later after saying that he shot. He shot through one and into another. He hit one none target animal behind his target and possibly a second non target animal. He killed one and wounded at least one maybe two. Doesn’t show them even looking for the other animals. It’s pretty sad that he does that and advocates others taking bad shots.

[@calvinhenderson4200]

Dont know about the bullets but that mule deer shot was unethical.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I agree regardless of the bullet that was a bad shot that shouldn’t have been taken. A lot of people seem to forget that there is such a thing as a bad shot and a good shot.

[@waterss3039]

Ballistic gel is not an animal nor human.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Really? 🤯😂 What a amazing revelation

[@tonymoscardino3208]

a full freezer doesnt equal what you are talking about.this is a good bullet so what the hell are you talking about.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I can fill a freezer with a musket ball that doesn’t make it great. If it’s such a great bullet then why do they have to lie and alter videos to hide issues and failures? The fact that they have been proven to have done both speaks volumes.

[@nt_wicked_bunch2717]

Bro your fixing to start a Waco style fire cause them hammer bullets have a cult like following😂. Personally I’ve never been a fan and it’s nice to see there is a real reason I didn’t like them. Plus they shot like crap… nothing worse then a company that doesn’t own up short comings.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

You hit the nail on the head they do have a small "cult" like following. Funny part is they all just repeat what hammer says about marketing and don't actually understand terminal ballistics or bullet construction. Had a guy literally trying to argue with me and getting mad I wouldn't believe him. He was trying to say my videos proved they are superior 🙄 Apparently he wasn't paying attention. He kept saying "I'm not a expert" then getting mad I wouldn't agree. Why in the world would I ignore facts and actual experts for a guy who doesn't have facts or knowledge and admits he's not a expert? That's just pure insanity 🤦‍♂️ Some people's children

[@nt_wicked_bunch2717]

You’d have to be a pretty hardcore addict to call any one bullet superior especially considering how much the market has advanced over the past 15-20 years through many companies. Most of the followers usually don’t have any first hand experience either. You may not be an expert but I’d be willing to say you know more about terminal ballistics then most. Your videos (visual proof) are pretty spot on and if it worked like they say it does then what you gain or lose by saying otherwise?

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I have bullets I call superior but that's based off provable results. Controlled testing, in the field hunting, etc. They have all proven themselves time and time again to perform best.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I'm independent I'm not associated or sponsored despite offers. I prefer it that way so everything is above water. I present evidence videos, pictures, etc to show my assessment and findings. I don't get anything if I say a bullet is good or bad. I've actually done multiple bad reviews of bullets. I do it and move on just like if a bullet is good. This whole thing got to this point because of hammer doing shady stuff. Think about it like this. If you went to buy a car seat for your kid. You get into a accident and the car seat fails resulting in serious injuries. Come to find out the company knew about the problem and covered it up. Wouldn't you have rather found a video or post showing that they had did that so you wouldn't buy it preventing a bad situation? I know I would and that's why I did this video and the last one. Last thing someone needs is to be on a once of a lifetime hunt or putting meat in the freezer and it be ruined by a bad bullet.

[@nt_wicked_bunch2717]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 see man and that’s why I like this channel. Your last comment goes to show the truthfulness behind the channel. Hopefully you didn’t take the last part of my last comment the wrong way.

[@gtzmwt]

I apologize for bringing politics into this, but pretend Donald J Trump is Hammer bullets. That's exactly what's happening! He's doing exactly what they and they're die hard fans are doing.

[@calvinhenderson4200]

You squat to pee, eh.

[@Robert-fs1pb]

His heart and lung area was jelly.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Really and you got that information from watching the video?

[@sylviahofer1246]

You are such a "righteous" man. Pissed off about an animal dying in 20 seconds rather than 10 seconds. Gimme a break. 😅

[@KenCharles-i4w]

Any and every bullet that is produced has shots in witch it is going to perform poorly there is no such thing as a perfect bullet.... A frame swift, trophy bonded bear claws, hornady. Nosler all have examples of poor performance where they did not perform as advertised, Burger, seirra... what personal bias do you have against Hammer that is clouding your judgment...

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

The difference is that Berger, Hornady, sierra, etc. They are not doing the shady stuff hammer is doing. Hammer lies about kill numbers, alters videos to try and hide issues and failures, lies about their bc’s, has teamed up with anti hunting groups to get lead banned, teamed up with anti gun groups to try and get lead banned, done fake tests to try and make their bullets appear better than the competition, etc. The other companies aren’t doing that stuff. The other companies actually take negative feedback and bad performance. They don’t attack their customers, make false accusations, or try and bully customers who give negative feedback. They don’t try and go after people or try and have any negative feedback removed. They don’t delete stuff that makes them look bad and then try and lie to spin the narrative in their favor. The list goes on and on with stuff that they do that other companies don’t. I don’t have a personal “bias” against them that is clouding my “judgment”. Maybe it’s you who has clouded judgement? If any other bullet company did what hammer has done I would call them out too. There’s a big difference between a bullet having major issues and poor performance in the right circumstance. Yes there’s no such thing as a perfect bullet they all have limitations. Steve actually claims that his bullets are perfect and that they are the best bullets out there. That you can’t even compare them to any other bullet. His bullets defy physics and have no limitations. The truth is that he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. He literally copied the GS custom and modified it just enough to make it “different”. The GSC is a terrible bullet and isn’t even sold in the us anymore for a reason. There is a difference between an anomaly and a problem. A bullet failing in the right circumstances is an anomaly. A bullet that has a bad design and has high number of failures is completely different. Hammer has received a lot of negative feedback and failure reports. Steve just attacks the person and makes crazy accusations against them. Recently a guide reported 5 failures in a season with multiple customers. Literally every single customer who came using hammer bullets had failures on game. The numbers don’t lie and show that it’s not an anomaly but a problem. You are free to use whatever bullet you choose. I’m simply putting out information for customers to see. That way they can make an educated decision before buying.

[@Lucysdad66]

Hmmm out of about 2 dozen videos on hammer bullets you are the only one that don't like them sounds like a grudge to me.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

How so? please explain why you believe that it’s a “grudge”.

[@kennethbyler1619]

He just did

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@kennethbyler1619no he didn’t he said that I have a the only negative review of the videos he has seen so far. That doesn’t translate into a “grudge”. Hammer is a small company and not many people have tested them. There is also lots of people who have had issues with them but they don’t have a channel or make videos about it. Then there’s the fact that he like a lot of the hammer guys just drop negative comments here without even watching the video. The comments clearly show that they didn’t because of what they said. Plus they have been caught in forums bragging about just coming here to drop negative comments. There’s plenty of reasons why there can be a negative review. In today’s world everyone likes to automatically throw out terms like hater, jealous, has a grudge, etc without any actual proof or reason. You can not like something, have a bad experience with a product and discuss it, etc without being a hater or any of the other nonsense people say. A prime example is the island boys. They were just on a video saying that people were just giving them negative feedback because they are haters who are jealous of them. Well that’s not true people just don’t like their rap because it’s not good. In their minds the only thing they can think of is that people are hating on them. It’s a tactic to make themselves feel better while trying to discredit the negative feedback. That is literally what is going on here. Hammer’s just aren’t good bullets. The company aka the owners have done a lot of shady stuff to a lot of people over the years. Consumers have the right to hear all experiences and feedback not just the positive feedback. Just because you don’t like the negative feedback doesn’t discredit it or make the person giving the negative feedback wrong or out to get them from jealousy or a grudge. He literally gave nothing to actually explain why he believes that I have a grudge against them. Me being the only negative thing he has seen doesn’t in any way prove that I have a grudge.

[@kennethbyler1619]

@longrangehuntinggroup7223 what a wind bag, I've heard Canadian geese say more. Honk,honk,honking

[@kenwiltsie6920]

Dude, what do you have against hammer bullets? Your 5k KZbin subscribers doesn’t say a lot

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I have 5000 subscribers and? That really doesn’t matter or reflect the quality of the content. There’s people who make faces in front of a camera and have hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Them having lots of subscribers doesn’t translate into factual or good content. If you want some numbers though just for you since you’re so fixated on numbers and their “value”. Hammers video with the same title to try and counter this video has 19k views in 2 years. My video has 53k views in the same amount of time 2 years. That means I have 34k more views than they do. Their video has 253 likes and mine has 432 likes. Their video has 26 comments and mine has 377 comments. Hammer has 1.7k subscribers and I have 5k subscribers. So since you’re so focused on numbers for credibility. I have more subscribers, more views, more comments, and more likes than hammer. So according to your logic of numbers I’m more credible than hammer. 😁😉

[@kenwiltsie6920]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 yeah, and half of the comments are you rattling back a 2 page reply. Just say hammer bullets didn’t work for you and be done with it. They have worked for thousands of others.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@kenwiltsie6920except you’re wrong about that too. Hammer literally has a kill list of every animal killed so far. It’s literally under 1000 last I saw it was just over 700. So no there’s not thousands of people having success. Steve has a well known history of lying and greatly exaggerating. You are also forgetting all the people who had bad experiences with hammer bullets. There is a lot more than you think.

[@kenwiltsie6920]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 ok, just say hammer bullets didn’t work for you then. I think Steve has rubbed you the wrong way and your out for revenge 😂

[@kenwiltsie6920]

Ron Spomer has alot of good things to say about them. He has 474k subs 😂

[@MK9-VGI]

Need to give discrete ballistics a run

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Never heard of them I'll have to look them up

[@MK9-VGI]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 whats the best way to contact you

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

[e-mail]

[@roadkillanonymous4807]

Weatherby sure must be out to lunch loading these horrible bullets in their factory ammo. Yeah I suspect weatherby of all companies wouldn’t know high performance if it hit them in the head 🤣🤣🤣 Y’all by chance 300PRC, er, RockyMtnUT on long range hunting? I just have a hunch haha.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Do I have a 300 prc? I don’t know what er or rockymtnut is. Don’t know if you’re having a stroke while trying and need to go to the ER or what.

[@roadkillanonymous4807]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 a stroke while trying what? As for my question…I’ll considered it answered. There’s a fella went by the handle “300prc” on the forum “Long Range Hunting” who for reasons unknown has made it his mission to defame the company and derail threads about their products. His most recent profile pic appears to be your face from this video so I thought it might be you but it seems he’s just using other people’s image without their consent then, a class act indeed. I will say I do acknowledge that hammer has an almost cult like following and it gets a tad obnoxious sometimes. But I also like what I’m seeing with them and other monos going very fast with light for caliber bullets at ordinary hunting ranges. For long range work I like the hornady eld m or other high bc heavy frangible types. But my 257 bee can really make the 75 and 90 grain hammers SCREAM haha

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@roadkillanonymous4807 I have no idea as I’m not in that forum. As far as hammer if you like them then you do you. I’ve seen way too many issues with them and shady stuff from the owner/cult to ever use or recommended them.

[@JDsModernMartialArts]

I stopped watching after the mule deer dropped. Just goes to show if you shoot them in the right spot even with a crappy bullet you will get it done.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

If you actually watch the mule deer wasn’t dead. It was simply paralyzed and it’s head was still looking around. I’ve seen cases where that has happened and the animal was still alive a day or two later. Simply paralyzing it doesn’t translate into death.

[@andyhiebert1674]

We have little choice in Kalifornistan

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

You are forced to run non lead you’re not being forced to use hammer bullets. There’s far better options out there like cavity back bullets, DRT terminal shock, makers, etc.

[@Junkjman1]

You lost all credibility the moment you said a match bullet is a great hunting option

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

😂 there’s literally tons of evidence showing that match bullets are great for hunting. In fact a couple of them perform better than all hunting bullets. Controlled testing in gel and in the field show that. You would be surprised who in the industry actually hunts with match bullets even though they can’t recommend them because of government contracts.

[@kylemacdonell1450]

Good thing I don't hunt and EAT GEL LMFAO. You know nothing jon snow !

[@MK9-VGI]

Or even Barnes bullets

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I don't like Barnes but it's better than hammers

[@MK9-VGI]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 they have been very consistent for us. Inside 400yds

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Barnes works at high velocity close range but if you put it side by side to a better bullet like Berger hybrids, eld match, etc it doesn't come close to the same type of performance

[@norton218]

@@longrangehuntinggroup7223 are you kidding me ! Berger's and ELD-X, eld-m are horrible bullets. I shot the ELD-X 200gr in my 300wsm at 2950fps . 4 elk from 200yds out to 550 where shot with that load . Not one bullet exited with a behind the shoulder shot and required multiple shots to finish the animal because they where still on their feet several minutes later. The next year I used barnes LRX 200 grs I have shot 6 elk now from 250 out to 650 never recovered a bullet and all 6 died quickly. I won't even touch Berger's exploding bullets what a horrible idea.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Okay first Bergers, eld x, and eld match are 3 completely different bullets. You're using the eld x as a example not the other two. Also they aren't exploding bullets.

[@dtstennant]

Well Karen. Sorry you feel that way. As I was reading the comments it became clear your Democratic opinion is not being well received. I see the point you are trying to make but you are just wrong. Do you understand shock wave? That’s why the pedals fly off and the shank turns into a flat nose, more shock, and because of the faster velocity and greater bullet retention you get more penetration and a shock wave going through the animal. I personally would never Moose hunting with a 12 gauge #4 shot. Sure the animal absorbs all the bullets energy but yuk.. ya see what Im saying? Shockwave Baby.

[@Imyourfather225]

Why people should listen to you. You can even produce your own test videos.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

I honestly don’t understand how people try and argue. I’ve done multiple tests, seen other tests, and have seen lots of failures and issues hunting with hammers from multiple sources. That’s not to mention all the bad/shady things that the owner has done.

[@ChronicalsofAl]

Opinions are like a-holes...

[@JR-lg7fd]

people will stick anything in them

[@keithcondon9871]

Yeah I guarantee those bullets did not “neck over”. The petals sheer off and radiate away from the center shank. I really, REALLY doubt this guy ever recovered that bullet unless he had 48+ inches of ballistics gel. Dude owes me 10 minutes. Bull 💩🚽

[@jdogi1]

Seems like someone has HDS. Hammer Derangement Syndrome

[@jameslee755]

There is numerous gel block tests done by independent youtubers that show how effective they preform. Your whole video is just you ranting and trying to pick evidence where there is none. The elk video in question, elk are hard to kill regardless. I have shot elk with noslers in nearly the identical spot, they dont die instantly on any kind of a lung shot. They are hardy animals. You do not show any sources with actual solid evidence for your claims. You are the only person I have found with a problem, and my guess is that's its a personal one and not a problem with the product. here are a few independent gel tests, the second one he tests the bullets at 1300 fps and they do tumble, however they are rated for 1800 and above. And guess what? At that velocity they perform as advertised. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4jPZJypZb-mmck kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6LVZHhtrLaaqNk

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

So if they don’t have a problem then why did they modify the videos trying to hide the issues and failures? If there wasn’t an issue then they would have never done that. You only need to try and cover something up if you know there’s an issue. Besides that I have screenshots of them admitting that the bullet I was sent they were having problems with and had now “fixed the issue”. They have since deleted it since they found out that people could see it. I also have screenshots of a chat between their bullet tester and a customer. Where their own bullet tester admitted that they have problems and that he regularly complained to Steve about the issues. That on a regular basis he would have to use “bandaids” to make the bullet performance seem better than it is. Plenty of people have reported failures. Anyone who does report an issue Steve and his buddies try bullying them into silence. They tried the same tactic with me. Unlike the others I don’t backdown from a bully especially when I’m in the right. They have even gone so far as to lie committing perjury trying to get my channel shutdown. Even KZbin called them out for trying to go after me and lying. Even without the bullet issues they are still a terrible company. Like teaming up with anti hunting and anti gun groups to do a propaganda video trying to get lead bullets banned. He got major backlash for that. Or him trying to cover up his unethical hunting practices and trying to spin a lie to make himself look better. When people posted the video on a forum to counter his lies. He had the videos pulled and lied to the admins to get those people banned. They have a long history of lying, bullying, and going after anyone who doesn’t kiss their ass. Here’s a video link showing more actual failures and issues with hammer bullets. Skip to 18:27 for the second on hammer showing lots of examples including pictures of the bullets. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqmtmZWfq9J8epYsi=QLVN1CBcqK1i_XtY By the way I love how you guys are always trying to spin it like there’s no problems and it’s just a personal issue. That’s laughable especially since there is plenty of evidence proving me right regardless if you guys don’t want to see it or not. It’s pretty funny there’s guys that are hardcore hammer fans. They claim to have never seen a single issue or failure with hammer. Yet I’ve literally seen them in forums where guys are showing failures and problems and the same guys who said they have never seen it are there talking to people reporting issues and attacking them trying to silence them.

[@ozark_trapper]

Not a fan of them.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Honestly in the beginning I had high hopes for them. Then I tested them and it just went downhill from there. The only thing worse than the bullets performance is the owners.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

How did your trapping season go?

[@ozark_trapper]

@longrangehuntinggroup7223 broke my hand right before the season opened. Then it almost got well. And a cracked the bone again. So I took it easy. That same bone has been cracked or broke together 4 times. First time ever. I just set out a new 330 day before . The first check had a big otter. It was 20 degrees out. My hand got so cold setting that 330 back. I bumped the top of the jaw with my left hand. We'll my right hand was in the line of fire. Came down right across my knuckles and broke them. Finally, I got the trap off my hand. Got it set back. Went to the dr. All he did was said I had broke bones. No cast I was glad. I had put a set 220 trap in back of my truck. I left it set. Because it was easier on me. I had the safeties on. I drove around putting few more sets out. Forgot that trap was back there. That driving around made safeties fall off. I reach my hand over there to get a trap. My wife was with me helping me. She was talking to me. I got that same hand in the 220 trap. Man it made me so sick at my stomach. She was laughing at me. I ended up trapping that whole season. And sknning my animals. But this pass season. The trouble I had holding on to skinning animals. I said not again. I wasn't going thru that issue again.

[@ozark_trapper]

@longrangehuntinggroup7223 I just got a new rifle. A Browning Xbolt Hells Canyon Speed Long Range 280AI. It's got a 1@8 twist and a 26 inch barrel . First bullets I bought for this one. Berger 150 gr Classic Hunter. Hornady 162 gr ELD M. And some ELD X 175gr. Just ordered 2 boxes ELD M 180 gr. Just need a box of Berger 168gr Classic Hunter to try to. Haven't put a scope on it yet. Was planning on putting a Leupold VX5 HD 3x15x44mm CDS. But all the issues I have seen with it. I am looking around again. Looking at the Trijicon tenmile 4x24x50mm. Zeiss V4 4x16x44mm. Nightforce SHV 5x20x56mm. I want a exposed elevation turret. And a capped windage turret. Putting it together to shoot out to 500 or 600 yds. Next spring, I hope to go spring bear hunting. In Idaho or Montana.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

@@ozark_trapperThe 180 gr eld match is awesome in 7mm’s for both external ballistics and terminal ballistics. Another one to check out is the 180 gr berger hybrids. I have a couple buddies who run 280 AI’s and love them. Out of the scope list Nightforce is the best. Keep me updated on your progress and good luck hunting. Happy hunting.

[@fjb4932]

Alot of intro noise. Noise . . .

[@kennethbyler1619]

I wonder how much he got paid to post this video 😂

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

And who exactly do you think I got “paid” from to do the video?

[@rickpowshuk3081]

Do you live in your moms basement

[@lightningrider2508]

Thank you for being honest in a time of dishonesty. refreshing.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Unfortunately your statement is very true. People will give great reviews to stuff so they will continue to get stuff sent to them and also in the hopes of other companies sending stuff. Sponsored people will promote their products which I get it it's their job to. I prefer to stay independent and not sponsored or connected to anyone. It does limit me as I have to fund everything myself. I have had a couple friends help me out by sending me bullets they can spare or want to see tested. They know that I'll give it a honest review good or bad. I've had a buddy buy me some ballistics gel and some send me shoulder bones for the videos. Helps to have good friends. Glad you liked the video. I have quite a few bullet ballistics gel videos that will be up soon. Good luck this season and thanks for the support

[@honcho714]

Anyone with Frankford arsenal products in ther loading room has no business evaluating anything . This guy is a clown , and no I don't have hammer bullets in my loading room .

[@RM6.5SAUM]

@honcho714 yet you are still using your Ruger American 270 as a long range rifle 😂

[@RookCustoms]

My man go out and hunt with them. Then run your mouth. Ethics is talking about a subject and not actually testing the bullet.

[@longrangehuntinggroup7223]

Once again another guy who doesn’t actually watch the video or pay attention and just leaves dumb comments. You guys crack me up honestly. Why would I go hunting with a terrible bullet and risk loosing an animal or a slow death for it? Knowingly using something like that is unethical. The massive amounts of failures on animals I’ve seen over the last year alone is alarming. Then add the issues shown in gel that directly matches the issues on game. Then add the fact the owners know the issues and try covering them up. Or them teaming up with anti hunting and anti gun groups to ban lead core bullets. The list goes on and on and on. I don’t need to own and ride an old Harley shovel head to know that it leaks oil. There’s tons of evidence out there showing that. Same thing here the evidence is overwhelming that hammers are terrible and have lots of issues and failures. The fact that they have gone to the lengths they have to try and cover up failures shows that they know about the problem. Not to mention that they have tried altering test footage to make their bullets appear better than they are with rigged fake tests. I have way too much respect for the animals I hunt to use a known crappy bullet.