Why You SHOULDN'T Be A "Technique Cyborg"... (How To Stay SMALL)

[@GVS]

There are a lot of factors that go into making progress in the gym. While I've always said that hypertrophy is a very forgiving adaptation that can be arrived at via leveraging many different variables, there's a VERY good reason that you see few top natural (or enhanced) lifters using the amount of control and range of motion that Dr. Mike Israetel has promoted at times during his "technique cyborg" series. A little goes a long way, and a lot gets you nowhere. Many people DO need to control the weight more. I understand what this type of content is a reaction to, the guy flailing around doing "bent over rows" with 80% of his deadlift. And yes, that was me. Many people should reduce the weight and aim to get a deeper stretch on the muscles, which has been shown to, on average, be better for growth. But that's not everyone. A lot of people need to let go of "optimizing" those variables because it's taking away from their progress due to sacrificing weight on the bar, progression, or effort. While it's easy to criticize the form of Ronnie Coleman, it's decidedly unscientific to declare with certainty that he'd be bigger if he squatted "my way". Whether it's "full rom" or controlling the weight to the point where it looks more like yoga instead of lifting, don't let your identity become too wrapped up into any one variable, because you'll probably end up ignoring other ones. And they matter, too. Controlling baby weight through an exaggerated range of motion is not the path to bigdom, and there's a reason that many of the lifters featured in this series were not spectacularly muscular. Some, by the way, were. There were some GREAT SETS featured that used appropriate loading, but most of them were a year or more ago. Some of the smith machine squats, pullups and leg press sets that I saw were truly fantastic...but recently it's been mostly sets that NO MUSCULAR LIFTER ACTUALLY DOES. MEME SETS chosen for shock value, basically. Why would anyone highlight that? I ask myself the same thing as I see more and more of this content. I've followed Dr. Mike and RP since the early days. I've probably watched hundreds of their videos at this point. Dr. Mike has never been shy about putting his controversial ideas out there in a way that most science based practitioners would balk at, but in the past year it really does seem like the formula has reversed. Instead of believing something and then putting it out there, topics, statements, thumbnails and titles have been deliberately chosen for maximum shock value. This does seem to happen to many big channels, where they notice what content does well, then ultimately become slaves to the algorithm, putting out more and more ridiculous content to scratch that dopamine itch. The cart is now leading the horse, where an unending torrent content merely provided in order to optimize the funnel of clicks-->views-->subscribers-->money. I know I'm not the only one who's seen this. And it's disappointing. I don't have any solutions or advice, I'm just sharing my observations.

[@mark_mayers]

Controlling baby weight through an exaggerated range of motion IS the path to more gains, because the stretch is the most important part of the movement, and training in that stretched position requires much less weight. Just because the pro bodybuilders don't do it doesn't mean it's invalid. Most of those guys will grow from anything, especially with the drugs they're on. The people in these technique cyborg videos are usually beginners/intermediate. Completely unfair to invalidate their training style just based on how long they've been training.

[@GVS]

"Controlling baby weight through an exaggerated range of motion IS the path to more gains" I guess we'll just have to disagree there. And it's not just professional enhanced bodybuilders, it's natural lifters as well. Very, very few jacked natural lifters train like that for the majority of their sets. I have zero issues with highlighting beginners, and actually think it's a great idea, if they are actually reasonable sets.@@mark_mayers

[@OrthoBro3]

@@mark_mayers I think you need to make more gains before you can be the arbiter of what "is" and "Is not" the path to more gains bro

[@joe-protz]

@@mark_mayersexaggerated range of motion doesn’t always mean a bigger stretch though, it could also mean that many people stop a set as soon as any ROM is lost in the contracted state, and then they don’t get as many good reps in for the stretched portion.

[@ChrisPBacon072]

As a dr Mike enjoyer, I have to agree with you on this video. While he himself uses great technique with good ROM, I don't see him doing this kind of training shown in these clips. So it feels like he is just doing this kind of content to make more views

[@zdspYT]

"Control the weight down but don't be a tryhard" - Bald Omni Man, 2024

[@corneliogallo3250]

Unironically, a very good point from him

[@KillTheKiller89]

this stuck with me as well, that's what i call a tidbit

[@howardfairbanks6965]

​@KillTheKiller89 *Golden* tidbit

[@chaosdisciple3052]

That cue and that row variation will stick with me for a while.

[@Kaizan27]

1-2 second control is all you need, anything more is pointless

[@JornGuardian]

LETS GO HORSECOCK SOME BIG WEIGHTS, NO PENCIL NECKS HERE

[@patrickbateman4541]

AAAAAAAAAA I NEED A HERO

[@oddmanout7755]

Underated comment, needs more likes.

[@rockyevans1584]

Pencilneck here, will this allow me to grow to be succulent, bulbous and grotesque?

[@facelessnameless]

🐴🐔

[@evangillespie2533]

love sticky ricky

[@fox20rps94]

Science based programming. Bro based lifting.

[@Beutings]

The way God intended

[@jackwisniewski3859]

Fuck yes

[@tmmnago2722]

Based Bro Lifting

[@ge7581]

fuck science based. Logic and evidence is where its at.

[@Krimbopulous]

I mumbled a “hell yeah dude” alone in my living room

[@scottvasnik]

I used to be very overly concerned with my form and technique. I think the main reason that this happened was because I was obsessed with watching tutorial videos. The people in those videos are usually showing perfect reps but their intensity is often very low.

[@GVS]

Most tutorial videos use the bar or not much more, and that definitely changes a lot of movements.

[@dynaspinner64]

You are dead right about using an empty bar while demonstrating lifts. It should be at least moderate to slightly heavy when you do. I get annoyed when I see form Nazis correct someone for not having "proper" form when they are lifting something way heavier than what these criticisers do.

[@JorPanzer]

great comment.

[@jakenicholaides3214]

So what your saying is the Internet+autistic zoomers have made moving heavy things really complicated lol

[@clarity2115]

yep. fake weights is now a thing too

[@epatollecrm]

This just KZbin/social media fitness in a nutshell. RP's 'Hypertrophy Made Simple' series is over 3 years old. If the goal was just giving people useful info, they could've stopped there. But the need for a constant stream of content requires over-emphasizing things or just making stuff up.

[@kapoioBCS]

There is repetitive content and then there is selling your soul for dollars…

[@dragoph]

I agree with this take. Certain methods of medical intervention have been discovered. We don’t need to keep innovating. Cars are also sufficiently fast and safe, we shouldn’t keep improving aspects of them.

[@paavoilves5416]

I've seen good enough videos from like over 10yrs ago so we shouldn't be making any fitness content anymore. It's 2024 and people are still making "how to deadlift" tutorials when they could just read a book from the 1900's.

[@paavoilves5416]

@@dragoph "Brother" I expanded on your sarcastic comment!

[@TheSoqu]

What you expect from bald ashkenazi who talk about money every video od course in the term of jokes he he he

[@ven9276]

Whilst I do love RP there are certain things they do which bother me. This being one of them. Another big one is that Dr Mike routinely says there is no need to train to failure and that it is detrimental to progess (from a S2F standpoint) but then routinely posts videos where they train so hard that they're puking in bins and collasping. Either that or posting that a set is RIR 0 when they quite clearly had more reps in the tank (thinking back to your RP v Lyle MacDonald video)

[@pablov1323]

They have commented many times that these videos correspond to individuals at the final week of their mesocycle when evertything must be done with crazy intebsity

[@StratEdition]

He trains like those videos every 4 weeks now. I'd say that's pretty frequent intensity. I think Geoff is right, he memes it more nowadays for the clicks. I also think Geoff mischaracterized him a bit when showing some of these really obnoxious controlled form lifts.

[@Deathkill06]

He admitted in a panel discussion with Dr. Helms that there are people out there that can train to failure regularly and recover properly session to session. When he switched to 2-3 RIR he had a burst of new gains. I think his own personal biases paint his views on failure training too much, that and I think super heavyweight elite enhanced lifters on average can accumulate way more fatigue than your typical intermediate/advanced natural.

[@EnglishwithJoe]

he has never said there is no need to train to failure but he advises that you shouldn't train to failure on every workout, but more so at the end of a meso cycle - I agree with this

[@Twm532]

His definition of RIR is a good example of why you shouldn't obsess about technique. He stops far before failure just because his form has started suffering slightly

[@dave7209]

As a beginner I learned so much from the old Renaissance Periodization videos. They would release hour long videos delving into the nuances of every training variable. These days, they post 10 minute vids criticizing Hollywood celebs with a recycled sex joke every 30 seconds. I barely recognize the channel anymore, and it does feel like they are just posting to get clicks with no thought of actually being helpful. Really a shame.

[@metalguitar777]

I enjoyed those Hollywood celeb training videos at first but man the sex and gay jokes get old quick. Though it’s interesting seeing how some of these celebs train and the pure nonsense that comes out of their trainer’s mouths.

[@GVS]

The old stuff is a great resource, they've done a lot and I guess now it's time to cash out.

[@Abah-cuh-bus]

Yeah, exactly…at some point there really isn’t anything left to say, but they have to, to make more money.

[@cx2900]

they still put out some good info and what are they supposed to do? refilm and post the same content every year? There's only so much new info coming out at any point. I do usually skip the hollywood critique vids but they're clearly targeted to a different demo than most of the channel. tbh the training vids are my favorite, I'm natty but nothing inspires me like watching juiceheads train

[@dilbophagginz]

@@cx2900 Or they could do what every other KZbinr does when they run out of ideas, stop making videos and do something else, or make videos less frequently.

[@kevindadswell603]

Its funny because you and RP are my go to KZbin content creators. Lifting is like anything else in life. Learn all you can and take parts of everything that works for you. I'm the biggest at the leanest, imjury free because of you guys

[@nomongosinthaworld]

The worst part about it is that Mike and Jared don’t even go to this extent with their own form. I’m all for big stretches, controlled eccentrics and safe lifting but they obviously noticed that their full ROM approach could become a lucrative crutch for noobs and capitalized on it

[@GVS]

Yes, Jared and Mike generally have very solid form, and I think they know exactly what they are doing when posting ridiculous sets.

[@justincain2702]

Am i missing something? I just watch the main RP channel and i've consistently seen Mike argue that progressive overload is neccesary and if you aren't failing within 30 reps, the weight is too light. For most movements, especially compounds, he recommends 5-12 reps close or to failure. I legitimately thought he must have been talking about a different Dr. Mike.

[@MultiYoutroll]

@@justincain2702 No no, RP bad.

[@jasoneubs]

I was about to post the same thing until I saw this comment. Old Dr. Mike and Jared both got huge doing more typical style reps as best as I can tell. Now they're saying there's a better way. Most people will never achieve their physiques at all, enhanced or otherwise, so why should others buy into their spiel now when they obviously didn't take that path to get where they are?

[@nomongosinthaworld]

He obviously still argues for all of that in his more serious programming videos (which he makes very few of nowadays) but the content that gets the most views like his shorts and workouts with other influencers he has become increasingly focused on „good technique“ to a point where loads just become laughably light with this technique cyborg series he has now started being a breaking point for many

[@abdurozurich4817]

The two sides of the same small coin, the ego lifter and the ego movementer

[@purplegoopguy]

real shit, learn to balance the ego.

[@ideamachine39]

Well stated

[@claudiamarianidamato9499]

Exactly

[@NuwandaLunaDragon]

if the first rep looks perfect, the 4th/6th looks slow or gets stucked midway and the last gets ugly as fuck, I'm happy

[@zerrodefex]

Yeah if it's "perfect" right to the final rep you weren't even pushing yourself.

[@thernius5786]

For me it's go until it's 1-2 ugly reps. If that's more than 15 reps, go up in weight, & if it's less than 10, go down

[@watsonkushmaster3067]

Why would you take pride in ugly reps? Last rep can be ultra slow but still good

[@NuwandaLunaDragon]

@@watsonkushmaster3067 if it's still looking good, you can do more.

[@facelessnameless]

@@watsonkushmaster3067 did you even watch the video? If there is no form breakdown then there is a 90% chance you aren’t working hard enough. If you were you wouldn’t be able to control the eccentric

[@Jonathanmissinglink]

Dr. Mike is appearing on a bunch of podcasts that are lightly related to lifting, so he is definitely trying to grow his brand and broaden his appeal.

[@Shadevortex2]

Hearing Dr. Mike talk about anything outside of lifting and exercise can be a very painful experience. His other channel where he talks about other topics is just full of smooth-brain takes and libertarian garbage so maybe he should stick to the lifting.

[@thegoldfish123]

@@Shadevortex2oh thank god someone has noticed this too. His political takes and opinions on social issues are absolute garbage.

[@glenndiddy]

No matter how good your form is, it will get worse after adding weight. You will just have to accept it and improve your form with the new weight. Get to 90-95% of perfect form and move on to heavier weights

[@jahimuddin2306]

Yep, that is what these guys fail to understand. Up the weight, train at that weight until you can do the same number of sets and reps with the same form as the previous weight and up it again.

[@user-dn4lg1dv5v]

I'm all about "good form" but not at the cost of progress. As long as you control the movement and don't do only half reps, you are good in my experience. Great video. Respect for making it

[@LetAl27]

That's why I just follow John Meadows principles. RIP the best.

[@waynekoren828]

I miss the Mountain Dog.

[@lphtahoe]

The BEST!

[@sfarsitulumi]

Ever since making his training app, Dr Mike hasn't been the same. I used to be a big fan of his style of saying "I think my strategy is better, but feel free to experiment". I used to watch every video that came out, but now I feel like I'd just waste 20 minutes of my time seeing a huge buffed up dude "going to failure" with 20lbs dumbbells on chest press. RIP Dr Mike

[@zerrodefex]

That and I'm just generally done with taking advice from juiced guys in general.

[@dynaspinner64]

I hope Alex Leonidas stops collaborating with them anymore because as GVS said, Dr Mike may become the new G Shred.

[@metalguitar777]

I really wanted to get that RP Hypertrophy app but man the price is beyond ridiculous for what it gives you.

[@RevolutionNTty]

Perfect Said.

[@Madevilz]

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain

[@lolwtfbbq111]

Geoff is not weak lol. He's very humble. I've trained with him and seen him row like 90kg for 15+ reps. That isn't huge, horsecocking weight but that's respectable tonnage and he trains hard af.

[@markbaker4425]

Didnt he do 3 plate rdls for 20 reps or smth crazy?

[@azadr9231]

Still as authentic as you were in the beginning. Thank you and stay the same.

[@brianbachmeier34]

We're all gonna make it brahs

[@ergonaut940]

Fuaarkkk

[@janoycresva919]

It Zeezzz

[@Ash-os7fc]

@@janoycresva919it big Lenny

[@HowsItTripping]

Come at me brah

[@lealema7500]

Zyzz didn't made it :D

[@overratedfool6900]

Needed to be said. Great video. For what a random stranger's opinion on the internet is worth, I personally think that the video needed the last section. I think it pushes the point home really well and I think it's a fair assessment.

[@GVS]

Thanks. I wasn't sure if I wanted to include that last part but it's been a bit absurd recently.

[@Fazlifts]

Solid take Geoffrey. I think on a wider scale it feels like this kind of stuff has really ramped up over the last few years. Perhaps it's just more exposure and the consequence of social media shoving this all down our throats more often, but it feels like this stuff gets passed without qualification a lot more. It just ends up in the pile of ridiculous training advice which we're actually not supposed to take seriously, because it's good ol' lovable Mike or whoever else. It's all a bit *nod nod wink wink* he's making his money, and for that reason seems to get accepted as just part of the game. That's the issue for me I think, because quite a lot of people who are complete beginners are going to try to emulate this stuff because they don't have the capacity to differentiate between what's right and not. I see very similar to this type of stuff even in gyms over here in the UK, the reach goes that far and people are taking it seriously. For guys like you and me who try to put out useful information, it's like now we have to battle against this stuff too from someone who was 'one of us' at some point, you know?

[@GVS]

Yes, and most big creators don't want to call it out because, well, collabs are a thing and one of the better ways to grow on KZbin. Ultimately beginners don't know any better in many cases and they're 100% the target audience because they're the biggest audience. Well, not physically. Just in terms of numbers.

[@Fazlifts]

@@GVS Right and I think the collabs are part of the problem. No one is going to collab and then call someone out mid-collab, so all the audience gets is more affirmation of these wrong ideas as it just widens and strengthens the echo chamber. For a beginner looking in, this message seems more and more legit because the larger voices who all collab together repeat the same message. And it's all driven by money, not by truth.

[@JustSomeGuy496]

I think the point about the audience for fitness content being beginners is a really good one. Beginners don't just need to learn how to lift, they need to learn how to learn. How to analyze their own training and learn from their mistakes. Dr. Mike's style of dogmatism is unhelpful because newbs (like myself) need to think for ourselves. That's what makes you and Geoff experienced. You've trained a lot and gotten big and strong and learned a lot about yourselves in the process.

[@Fazlifts]

@@JustSomeGuy496 "... they need to learn how to learn" What a superb way to phrase that.

[@techtexan2816]

Tbch Iv used the app Iv done the training so thought I’d share my experience. ATG squats are about as deep ROM as you can get and felt great, cambered bar bench felt great, the super deficit rows I felt my spinal erectors more not my lats of upper back so that felt pretty much useless. And I even told my brother the same thing have good enough technique doesn’t need to be perfect but good enough then push it with effort. Mastering the weight doesn’t really apply with noobs too much. Also not in the video but one thing I never liked was the adding sets then the deload. I prefer more of a strategic way to add sets/ volume- I like step loading. Which the purpose is to master the weight to add more weight afterwards whereas just general accumulation didn’t really do that for me. Most of the biggest guys I know got big doing a proper basic ROM on basic lifts Squat bench deadlift rows pulldowns curls extensions etc. all done in a basic rom. And they all got super strong on them over time.

[@SriranjanSeshadri]

This topic is the main reason I switched from Dr Mike to Eric Bugenhagen

[@vance9090]

Cause RP is boring AF. Sometimes the bros just wanna have fun. And Rick the Stick highlighting that

[@callam4336]

there is a middle ground though...

[@citizenz4640]

Eric seems like he's always on coke or sum

[@thegoldfish123]

@@citizenz4640it’s a mindset

[@Tom-wk6pv]

@@citizenz4640 AND WE LOVE IT

[@Metal94head]

my favourite technique cyborg sets are those where they bang the machine for 20+ reps with failure nowhere near sight

[@aryanmogha8473]

Okay, so after years of watching your content, this is my first comment, and it's not specifically about this topic, but rather about my own experience and how it aligns with this video. I spent three years in my novice stage of lifting (2016 - 2019) without making any progress because, as we all know, if we don't have abs, we're considered fat. I was following Greg Doucette, Kinobody, and AthleanX religiously, but one day it just clicked that there was something wrong with my approach. That's when I discovered Revival Fitness, which made me realize that bulking and gaining some fat is okay. Basement Bodybuilding helped me understand that chasing the next PR in the logbook is not the answer. Then, 2021 version of Dr. Mike, who taught me all the nerdy things about volume and programming. And finally, you, Geoffrey Verity Schofield, taught me that it's okay not to follow someone blindly, that science doesn't have all the answers, and that I should listen to everyone but ultimately do what is right. I guess right now, I realize that the content Dr. Mike is putting out is not that. So, at the end of the day, thanks, Geoffrey, for making this lifting journey fun again.

[@callam4336]

2016 - 2019 was legit coming out of the dark age it felt... I was kept to a DYEL too because I did starting strength shit when I first started going to the gym and yes I got strong quickly but I legit looked like a soft fuck until people started memeing on it. After that I was like "fuck this" and started incorporating broscience, oonga boonga mentality like "i just go in gym and lift as much weight within rep range". Never made as much gains in the last 3 years as I did before. I look like a completely different person after shifting mentalities. I no longer gaf what anyone says really but I do look at NH, GVS, bald omni man videos for some exercise selection inspiration and thats it. My biggest takeaway is that science based lifting is fucking lame. Everyone has different bodies. We all react differently to different exercises, diet, etc. The entire field was and always has been overcomplicated.

[@callam4336]

By the way I think fitness goes through a lot of misinformation eras weirdly enough. I can name a few off the top of my head including the Starting Strength era which was rightfully memed on for aspiring bodybuilders

[@soonerborn7603]

Dude, Revival Fitness opened my eyes too! I’d try to ‘bulk’ for a few weeks and as soon as I’d get just a little bit of excess flab on my lower abs, I’d bail on that approach and start eating my grilled chicken and broccoli. In hindsight, it was definitely some type of disorder. Now I enjoy what I eat and I’m getting stronger! Being lean and small is overrated anyways!

[@HurricaneSparky]

I was in a similar boat, though I was actually incredibly fit and not really looking to gain size or a ton of strength. I took a year off of lifting, and branched out to other recommended lifting channels, and it boiled down to just the basics. There is no "one simple trick" for X gain. I stopped policing my diet, and increased my calories and the weight was I lifting. I gained a bit of size, but put on a lot of strength after changing my training. I'm pretty comfortable now, though I'd like to do a cut this Summer.

[@GreyException]

I'm not sure if you realize that other influencers have said the same thing. "Go experiment for yourself". "If you get more stimulus from a specific exercise and great results, keep doing it.". RP, Jeff Nippard or other "science bros" and even Geoffrey have all contradicted themselves here and there. The silver lining is that they all agree on this premise even if they don't agree on the entire process.

[@ziziorens348]

I was a slave to the "optimized progress" for most of the time I've been seriously training (which isn't a whole lot, barely a year). Always aiming at the exact number I've wrote down in my app, sometimes doing one more rep... Recently I've discovered that I, in fact, have been holding myself back. I could handle way more weight than I thought. And I've let go of the "strictest form possible". I still try to control the weight up and down, but I'm no longer beating myself over not keeping up the "correct" tempo. Such a relief.

[@shawnpatten6515]

I have to agree with the last part regarding channel engagement. A few years ago I was a huge RP fan. I used their diet app with great success. But, ever since they released their training app the quality of the content has changed for the worse. Stick with GVS, NH, BOM, Faz, Hersovyac, Allan Thrall.

[@EVEN-ls9ic]

Hersovyac is very underrated

[@nmnate]

I like your list, but would also add Basement Bodybuilding. OGs all around 💪

[@shawnpatten6515]

@@nmnate yes. Basement Bodybuilding is a great channel. Totally agree.

[@dilbophagginz]

Funny how Hersovyac trains exactly the opposite of how Mike says you should train, and he's top 0.1% of the most jacked natties on the planet

[@CRAZYWEIGTH]

@@nmnate and Alex Leonidas

[@evernew23]

The idea is to have great technique and be very strong

[@heismysavior21]

Thanks for being willing to put this put there, I've been following your channel and Dr. Mike's for a few years now and couldn't agree more. Still love Dr. Mike, but man, it's getting obvious what the channel goals are. 👊🏻💪🏻

[@bill_monty]

I've never been a technique cyborg myself, but besides all that my main goal in lifting now is to never be on a highlight reel of "Why are these guys always small???" 😅

[@TheSwoleKnight]

For me, RP and Dr. Mike’s techniques are more beneficial on back-off sets and accessory/finisher type movements after the days heavy work is done

[@jakenicholaides3214]

That was my takeaway from his advice.

[@Deathkill06]

I usually utilize his technique and Dr. Milo Wolf's advice on lengthened partials on my last set for extra volume while doing db presses. Bringing the dbs down nearly touching the biceps really is an insane loaded stretch on the pecs. No idea how much I'm going to personally benefit from it but I see no harm in experimentation after my time tested regular work is done.

[@cristian9365]

One of my favorite things about this channel is that you have absolutely no fear when cutting down people's BS even when it comes from pretty famous influencers

[@shellytanner]

He's a child

[@Ash-os7fc]

@@shellytannercope

[@cristian9365]

​@@shellytanner ?

[@joe-protz]

This is a great video. I’ve simultaneously been on both sides of the spectrum. I used to do cable rows WAY too light, nowhere in the realm of failure. It wasn’t common on KZbin to see people say to really push yourself, to not stop once you lose a tiny bit of ROM. And yep, I got absolutely nowhere. But then for compounds I was literally divebombing. I was taught from good old RIPPETOE to go as fast as you can and use the bounce to move more weight. This shit snapped me up. I’m still dealing with unlearning these form habits. You almost certainly want to be somewhere in the middle most of the time. Control your shit, but don’t be a little bitch especially with safe movements.

[@DCJayhawk57]

I think the Rippetoe method is why so many people don't grow from traditional compounds. They're training their CNS and tendons more than stimulating the muscle. I think you should use more control on compounds like bench and squat so that you're actually stimulating the target muscle, but go harder on assistance work, especially if it's a fixed movement pattern that you'd struggle to move with momentum like a chest supported row. You gotta train with intensity and intent.

[@joe-protz]

@@DCJayhawk57 totally agree. I’m literally growing twice as much with 2/3 the weight on squats now, because I still push myself hard but it’s with control and intent.

[@slackerm1]

Rippetoe, the original scamming dogmatic dirtbag who got a bunch of noobs who ignore real evidence to follow a fat fuck into the land of mediocrity. RP is similar with his full ROM bullshit, even though partials have worked since forever.

[@paavoilves5416]

@@DCJayhawk57 Also just doing FAHVES on compounds and no accessories is a bit of a rut. That's probably why Starting Strength is a beginner program, designed to just get beginners familiar with the most usual good exercises. I did SS first for like a year when I got to strength training and I did get good strength gains and decent hypertrophy beginner gains. But as I plateau'd, getting more variation and accessories in really helped me get forward. IMO Starting Strength does help get a good strength and technique base but you'll need to move forward quite soon after if you don't want to be a beginner forever.

[@alexvisan7622]

​@@joe-protzlmao rippetoe never said you should divebomb. It's clearly stated in the book that it is harmful.

[@WiecznieNieNasycony]

Be GymBro Cyborg Insted)

[@aunty-noble-natty]

How To Stay SMALL? fallow jason blaha he he

[@musclefarts]

new tshirt

[@btg49]

I love Mike and I'm definitely closer to the technique cyborg side of the spectrum but as soon as I saw his post I felt like he was rage baiting and I kinda felt bad for the dude in the video because Mike tee'd him up for the firing range. Sure maybe that row form is really great from an SFR perspective but to think you're gonna get huge rowing like that is like thinking you're gonna get rich from hustling people at garage sales like Gary Vee

[@alexager6831]

1 hour after you posted this, RP posted a video titled “Most Important Muscles to Train to Look Sexy” 💀

[@Steven-bq5fu]

Meh. So what. It was a video for women, and the partner to a great practical video they did a year ago or so for men. Most men who lift aren't trying to be pros, we want to look jacked, so he made a video saying side delts, chest, upper back, tris are what average people notice so if that is your goal, here's what to do. Not every video has to be for the .1% of people who lift with a show on the calendar

[@weirdo3116]

eh. that video didn't seem so bad. like out of all the things to be mad about at RP for this is the lowest one.

[@Anewevisual]

And??? that’s what some people are training specifically for LOL

[@bigdrippa6945]

i will say that those dips right around 7:40 looked solid. that man's gonna have a bulletproof upper body

[@jasonshults368]

Not likely as much as if his legs were behind him.

[@marcoams6239]

​@@jasonshults368not really leg placement doesn't change much on dips, if anything having your legs behind your body typically creates some instability in the core which means a less efficient transfer of energy during the movement

[@michaelanthony4750]

Yeah that's actually a lot of weight he was repping. Funny how small he looked though.

[@Rcd710]

As a fan of RP and as someone who took 2 years off from the gym(not by choice). Their content was helpful in safely getting back into hard training. It also helped me to focus on technique to ensure im actually working the muscles i want to work and avoiding injury. Mike also says regularly that they tend to overemphasize tempo and technique for newer lifters whereas you can see from his own training it isnt as dramatic as an advanced lifter. Also as of recent he has acknowledged the benefits of lengthened partials but still advocates full ROM when possible which will help develop tendons as well. This being said ive come to appreciate your approach and will be implementing more of what you talk about to see how it feels. No reckless form but not a technique cyborg. I feel that we should be able to take and implement tips from different people in our training and ultimately see what feels best for us personally, with the clear goal of building muscle. And if we notice that things arent working then maybe its time for a change!

[@guglielmomalzani-ey7cd]

Another reason to avoid becoming emotionally attached to people online and their ideas, I think RP has been the most useful channel in my lifting journey and it's obvious to me the change in content from 50min in depth videos to 10 min Hollywood workout critiques. The philosophy channel is also really weird and even in other podcasts his ideas are really bizzare, I remember him saying that the young generations having AIs as sexual parteners is a good thing

[@Popsiclestand86]

You don’t have to use baby weights to control through a bigger rom. The reason less weight equals more gainz is because you’re able to focus on the muscle that is supposed to be working. When i go “heavy” on db incline i never feel my chest working /never sore the next day. However, when i drop the weight, pause in the stretch position, then press, my chest is pumped/burns and sore the following day. Why? Cuz my mind is focused on working the chest not pressing the weight. This is an example and used for exercises i have trouble connecting with. Cbum trains similar, Wesley Vissers, hanny rambod train his athletes similar, mike van wick, jonni shreve etc. Can you “toss” weight around and make gainz? Sure. But personal experience my arms seem to make all the gainz while my back stays the same lol. Also, heavy weight all the time significantly increases risk of injury. Train smarter not harder.

[@omarmoramariachi]

Wow what a difference the new camera makes amazing upgrade.

[@TransformXRED]

Thanks for including the "social media optimization" part... it opened my eyes honestly.

[@mattaddison4794]

Step 1: dupe someone (first clip) into training in a ridiculous way Step 2: Praise them for it Step 3: dangle their dumb training clips as engagement bait Step 4: $$$$$ Literally the seedman model

[@GVS]

Oh jeez that one is ironic as well.

[@rickswordfire4774]

It just hit me: RP focuses on the most optimal, scientifically-proven methods to grow, whether it's your muscles or your following.

[@akn3207]

Oooh RP would hate that comparison hahah

[@demetribell]

@@rickswordfire4774better to train in a way you enjoy

[@thiccchungus588]

In the face of all these immense strides in sports science in recent years, the figure of speech "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" comes to mind. Great vid!

[@TheSnakemaniac567]

Been watching Dr. Mike for years, very concerning seeing the direction his content is going 😢

[@Wildkoala1]

Like what?

[@thomaswilliams1533]

Moral of the story: don't ever post yourself lifting because there's always a critic

[@dynaspinner64]

Depends. You have to use logic to see if the crticism applies to you or not. Being able to filter out bad advice is good.

[@NuwandaLunaDragon]

true moral if you're not a pussy: Post yourself lifting, because there's always a critic that can make you do better

[@sevourn]

Or post yourself lifting and laugh at the critics. 95% of the time if someone throws out a negative comment it's because they know they couldn't do it.

[@cuteminired6550]

He is right lol. You people have no sense

[@dynaspinner64]

@@cuteminired6550 Who said he's wrong? I just said "it depends". If you don't have the ability to filter out negativity and bad advice, then you won't last long on the internet before you feel like you're being bullied or harassed or whatever. The same happens in real life.

[@HerculesFit]

100% agree. Mike's critique of Ronnie Coleman's depth given how huge his legs were was crazy 😂

[@matalostodos]

Yeah but at some point you found out you weren’t making progress and went to the pharmacy. And that’s while you’re still in your 20’s with no serious risk of injury. Looking good, but your advice is automatically not credible.

[@Thouxanbanquincy]

Ronnies legs were so big that I doubt he could go much deeper than he did on his reps

[@justincain2702]

And now he's in a wheelchair 🤷

[@markbaker4425]

​@@justincain2702because he refused to take breaks when injured. Not cause he didnt squat as deep as youd like lol.

[@david.kovac.23]

​@@justincain2702 What the fuck does that have do with his squat depth?

[@adamdavis3973]

As someone who priotizes technique over everything else, and preferes it is because 1. My body is fuckee up and doesnt move right, if im not discplined with my technique i will hurt my shoulders, hips, and knees again. 2. Lifting isnt my primary sport, and i need to really be on top my fatigue management, using a lot lighter absolute load is nessicary for weekly recovery. That being said i also used to ego lift for years, always being plateued, so having a technique focused mindset for me has been a win, win,win. Even though the absolue load has been lighter i generally feel stronger i wider ranfes of motion than i did before.

[@Lemjanmusic]

Me too. I like the full range of motion because I do muay thai. The stretch and control really makes me feel good about my flexibility not taking hit with me lifting. But I do not really train for pure hypertrophy although that's of course one of the goals. I train for strength too.

[@adamdavis3973]

@Lemjanmusic love to hear it I'm an MMA guy myself these days, and know what you mean, having stability and strength in extreme ranges of motion in those sports are essential.

[@Yoke047]

Controlling the weight really shines when you are going heavy I can do like 7-9 dips 6-8 pullups and i control the eccentric feels super

[@DerClaudius]

I like Mike.. extracted a lot of knowledge from his vids. Subbed to see what you can add

[@anthonycarr6732]

It depends. If you want to get big and focus on hypertrophy (naturally), do full ROM, slow eccentrics, and be a technique “cyborg”. If you want to get strong and have a high 1 RM, loosen up the technique and focus on explosive force. Simple, really.

[@A.P.Garland]

What I like most about Geoffrey Verity Schofield's channel is its integrity. The information is exceptional, GVS himself is extremely humble, and although he's honest when answering viewer questions, he's careful how he criticises. Thus, it appears extremely supportive to those of us who are learning and way behind his level in the gym.

[@0xszander0]

I think dr mike's content actually kind of confirms what you are saying. Control is important but he never says to overemphasize control.

[@muffy_bunz]

Yeah, this video was dumb and worthless.

[@dylanthompson8338]

100% people are acting like Dr Mike doesn't constantly say to do what works best for you even if a study says it's wrong

[@matthewgwynne7874]

does he actually say this? i havent heard him say that cuz all i hear him say is everyone is training wrong and he knows everything@@dylanthompson8338

[@BigBADSTUFF69]

He even made a video specifically about that over a year ago. He likes the control because it makes the lifts harder.

[@evan3076]

Dude stopping listening to Dr Mike and paying attention to the golden tid bits that The Boogs hands out to us really exploded my strength gains and in turn my physique is showing what a difference the mindset makes

[@bgdnt]

I think that Dr. Mike sometimes contradicts himself with full range of motion vs stimulus-to-fatigue ratio. In some movements going to full range of motion is going to have worse stimulus-to-fatigue ratio than a regular range of motion, because for that last few inches of ROM you need so much more effort than than rest of the movement.

[@plaguedoctor2k]

Whenever I'm training at the gym, I recall your videos & those faces you make while training hard till failure during the last reps 😂. Very inspiring ❤

[@AlexanderBromley]

Great vid, man. We're due for a pendulum swing in training culture.

[@shogunx123]

To what?

[@baronmeduse]

@@shogunx123 Training that makes people get what they started training for.

[@BigBADSTUFF69]

@@baronmeduseyeah totally because RP is full of people who don't even have muscles. For sure.

[@baronmeduse]

@@BigBADSTUFF69 Drug-assisted.

[@AS-Stardust]

@@baronmeduse To be honest, Jared looked great even when he was natural, although he does have IFBB pro genetics

[@damo9961]

Dr Mike's advice is optimal for 30+ dudes on gear. Don't get injured

[@zavier.mp4]

This more out of less weight and full ROM has turned into weighted Tai Chi

[@dripshameless5605]

Respect again. I've seen a lot of emerging fitness guys here (some vets too) who LOVE to bully other groups for no reason. I respect your disclaimer beforehand, we're part of a community not exactly known for their nuance so your message was refreshing. Ofc agree with your points too!

[@KranK3r1983]

You organically showed up in my feed!!! Well done Geoff!

[@GVS]

The algo does exist! :)

[@Crokto]

i dont think dr mike has ever said to only train with light weights, or to master a weight before going up though? his main thing is progressive overload...adding weight and/or reps each session

[@chairmanlifts]

a few takes: - the "you need to use more weight" crowd is putting the cart (absolute weight) before the horse (how using a more conventional ROM will affect how the muscles are loaded) since a lot of technique wizardry tends to really skew the resistance profile (eg either totally failing at the peak contraction, or 90% of the difficulty in the longest 10% of the ROM) - and there is probably some scientific answer that we haven't gotten to yet about ideal resistance profiles, which at least sometimes might look closer to "bro rowing" than "pencilneck rowing" - the slow eccentrics are great when they make sense for the resistance profile (eg a press) but are a problem with very high reps (which I guess that a lot of these people bias towards), because both of them cause some sort of fatigue that messes with how you can push the target muscle close to failure

[@AjayaKrishnaJampana]

I think this a another example of why overemphasizing any one training variable over all others is bad advice but works if you are trying to build some kind of identity online as "the high intensity guy" or "the technique" guy etc. Instead it is best to consider all variables and trade-offs, experiment and modify based on your personal results.

[@karlsmith9186]

While I do train a lot this way, I also completely agree with everything you said in this video. Most people don't use nearly heavy enough weights and are way too focused on the technique. Personally I always try to go as heavy as I can with still my preferred technique and rep ranges and I can assure you that even though I am very focused on technique, it's not causing me to skimp on intensity in the slightest. I'm extremely strong by most people's standards and I am absolutely jacked

[@quietside3734]

I agree, regarding Dr. Mike. I much prefer some of his older videos on the Juggernaut Training channel.

[@banboosy]

So based. Glad someone called them out. Agree with you that their content has been getting a little ridiculous lately.

[@rhinopaul]

They will look back and call this "the control era" And laugh.

[@petrushaasbroek8433]

Nerding about weights has definitely hindered my performance. I am naturally risk averse, but had to get used to "trying" heavier weights, even when I did not feel "ready".

[@Abraham_Kist-Okazaki]

I wonder if Dr. Mike's problem is that if you don't keep precise form, the trackiing feature on his app won't work.

[@bambostarla6259]

Hey geoff, I agree with you on the topics that you presented in this video. Rhe big red flag for me was the video on front squats, like WHY? I used to train with ultra controlled reps with silly light weights and I didnt really make much progress, so I found that lowering the volume a little, focusing on intensity of the set is what made me progress (around 2-3 sets for exercise). The happy median between being ultra controlled and ego lifting is going to take many people far in their lifting/bodybuilding journey.

[@dc100dc100]

Dr. Mike is impossible to listen to, now. His crude “jokes” every 3 seconds is intolerable.

[@Javier-vi6db]

True..

[@dirimi6352]

Idk I personally like them but I did notice I turn up more for jokes than the content of the videos (I do know most of he repackages to be fair)

[@deansheppard1104]

I agree with this allot , is good to have variation in your program , not every lift needs to be has strict has possibile , for example I love both preacher curls and standing curls and have them both in my program and something that most people and especially gym staff don't understand is that form breakdown is normal at the end of a hard set to failure , especially on certain exercises (lateral raises for example). Gym staff love to call you on your form whenever they see you start struggling in the set and this is something that pisses me off especially when this people tend to be half your size and you always see them do exercises with perfect form and no fatigue.

[@bistekbb]

even Dr. Mike talks about how he doesn't need to lift with mind numbingly slow eccentrics, he utilizes the slow controlled eccentric training method with people who have never established good control with their technique in the first place. if you actually watch him or Jerad lift, they only slow it down enough to get a good stretch which is all they need. I think the iceberg goes: 1. Pussy Lifting 2. Ego Lifting 3. Control Freak Lifting (Pussy Lifting 2) 4. Lifting with Good technique with moderate to heavy loads with a deep stretch most israetelites are stuck somewhere between 3 and 4, I think its okay to have different mesocycles where you are utilizing both lifting philosophies to form a more nuanced personal approach for your own training. i think most people will grow out of it soon lol.

[@ChamplooMusashi]

This kind of video is why I appreciate your channel. There has never been and probably never will be some fountain of gains lifting discovery (peds are hardly a fountain for their bodily cost). Only so much really needs to be said on lifting and once you pass that point theres little else left to offer. Thanks for keeping the conmunity grounded and probably opening up a lot of peoples opinions on strictness

[@kowya5952]

this was absolutely necessary to be said, im glad you did. absolutely nobody can train like mike israetel long term, and hes been very dogmatic lately, refusing to take into account or acknowledge the "paralysis by analysis" criticism. i even see jeff nippard sometimes wanting to enjoy regular lifting style but it just always looks like hes trying to not disappoint mike israetel by always going back to "science based + rpe 7 + stretch" thing which is trendy for too long now. i know that jeff is aware that there has been little progress for him since he started treating lifting as numbers and science and not a hobby. the passion died and so did the progress. thats why i suggest to everyone that they should stick to what they enjoy even if its not "optimal" or "science based" as long as theyre making progress its absolutely science based. the individualism is always going to be a thing in bodybuilding, some people benefit from low volume low frequency, some people will need three times as much training to keep progressing, but these "science based" bros and their studies just want to put everybody in the same box which is really tough to achieve. eric bugenhagen said it well in one of his videos, went something like this: "ive been training for a year straight doing the ultra slow eccentrics and rpe 7 on lifts and yeah i got a pump but i did not achieve any progress for a whole year and eventually everybody will get bored of it and go back to their old way of lifting because its more fun and therefore there is going to be more progress because youre excited to get better at movements youre doing". geoff you were one of the first guys to oppose the whole rpe 7 on arms thing and you got huge over a short period of time simply by doing what works for you and being based. good for you man.

[@kowya5952]

also no hate for either of them, jeff is a genuinely cool dude and ive learned a lot from him.

[@mihailopopovic4759]

Well done man! You have become my fav gym youtuber. You are pure gold in fitness industry

[@ChiselledK1990]

I think Dr Mike’s steroid use heavily influences his recommendations on how to perform exercises. In that ped users are generally at more risk of connective tissue injury, hence the emphasis on super strict form. I noticed some disagreements between Mike and Menno Henselmans when it came to form, with Menno saying something along the lines of “excessive emphasis on form shouldn’t come at the expense of performance”.

[@GVS]

Yes I think he's very risk averse when it comes to his training and...I get that. I understand that completely. But when it bleeds into general recommendations it's going to be bad advice for a lot of the listeners, for sure.

[@claudiamarianidamato9499]

Glad someone finally calling them out. Everyone is so up their asses these days and scared to question them. The fan boys are out of control on their channel and have become a full ROM cult

[@papaduck6881]

I think improving your technique can definitely be beneficial, but there's a point where it's more of a detriment than anything else. Like no bro, you don't have to do a 7 second eccentric with a 3 second pause for a set of 20, just control the weight but don't be a nerd about it.

[@DanDavisHistory]

Yeah some guys are just ROM spergs. And as for RP and Ducette etc yeah it is easy to get carried away on YT, very common progression.

[@itsviibes5854]

I have also fell for stupidly slow eccentrics and got nothing from it. Although mine was psychological due being scared from a bad previous injury

[@Joger1337]

Best fitness video i've seen lately. Great job Geoff.

[@MrVolke13]

I think preaching going deeper isn't necesarily bad but the overly controlled negative seems like a performance drain for meh benefits. I always found it weird that people could simultaneously say that iso holds don't do much and preach controlling negative like 5 seconds. I don't even think the nerd angle works that well, If you go full nerd and decompose a controlled negative movement, It is made of many fractional milliseconds iso-holds at different muscle length (slowly releasing the contracted position). I feel like as long as you don't let the weight fully control your movement, that's slow enough.

[@Oi-mj6dv]

Science based lifter usually translates to control freak. The people that only get general "guidelines" from science on the other hand, "science observing" lifter, are somewhere Closer to the middle. Same is true for the yolo meathead, and the meathead that has now some method to the Madness, as with a lot of things in the world, truth lies somwhere in the middle.

[@mintyfresh1322]

For everything I disagree with Nippard on, I appreciate that he’s at least conceded stuff like “hey, maybe some partials make sense” and will always say that training hard is the #1 variable. At least seems less dogmatic than Dr Mike

[@Soccasteve]

Still can’t stand the Nips, his voice just kills me lol

[@BigBADSTUFF69]

Mike had Milo on like a month ago to talk about lengthened partials so I'm not sure who is being dogmatic

[@excalibro8365]

Mike also said training hard is on the most important training variables along with sleep and nutrition, and said that if you don't get all of those 3 dialed in, everything else is irrelevant. Did you even watch his videos? From my observation if anyone's dogmatic it's the bros. Science guys are always happy to change their minds provided you have a hard data to prove them wrong.

[@AJMorrisFitness]

Nailed this video Geoff

[@Henock95]

is it just me or does mike isreatel looks like homer simpson?

[@mtchll_chndlr]

ROMer Simpson

[@lmaolol9357]

Maaaarge, my SFR is out of control...

[@LouisSerieusement]

@@mtchll_chndlr 😂

[@involuntarilychad4048]

A mutant baby that grew to the size of a man in mere months.

[@Ryan-gk1bd]

This is a good video, some people (myself included) tend to really overdue certain cues so it's a good reminder to actually challenge myself.

[@NinjaSeppo]

This is where I feel everyone should go through a gym bro ego-lifting phase at some point in their gym journey. Adding weight should take precedent in 90% of case. Then reps. THEN technique. That's what gets people huge. Technique should be a higher priority when the weights are so high that injury risk becomes a real issue or you just plain run out of weights to add. OBVIOUSLY your tech needs to be at a level where you are actually working the correct muscles for example going ham on lat raises or bicep curls or rowing the bar on deadlifts...

[@GVS]

Well said. Heavy weights require the best technique and most control. It's similar to how a lot of beginners are worrying about SFR when they aren't really doing anything to generate fatigue.

[@zerrodefex]

Yeah and RP doesn't advertise that their advice is more for the advanced so newbies end up learning stuff much more complicated than what they need.

[@kuriosites]

Thank-you. I've been thinking about how using a little momentum in certain exercises can even out the resistance curve but but I couldn't articulate it and you did. I've gotten to a point where I just use technique that feels natural, as long as I keep my ego out of it. Currently, I'd say my workout is HIT adjacent; relatively low volume but not dogmatic and in a way that fits me and my priorities. I don't see you as cyber bullying anyone because your content is always nuanced.

[@nmnate]

Unironically I accidentally slam the machines against the stops occasionally on warmup sets (especially leg curls). Like... oh yeah, it's not heavy yet. Oops 🤣

[@petergause1760]

GVS needs to get his channel big enough to live debate Mike on this, especially has I genuinely feel the Renassaince Periodization principles were misrepresented in this.

[@GVS]

All these videos are from his page, so if they're not representing his principles maybe he shouldn't have highlighted them.

[@GreyException]

​@@GVSdude... That's a little bit excessive. Yeah the click bait and sheer amount of content has lowered the overall quality but you yourself have made incorrect conclusions. Should someone dig through your videos and highlight any "dumb" takes? Going around behind someone's back and talking smack is way too common for fitness influencers. This video is just as click baity as Greg or RP.

[@khalid.381]

"DO IT FOR THE DIFFICULT" - Bloatlord

[@mikakoivisto6504]

The goal is to be FULL

[@Simon-d8n]

Geoff. Another great video.

[@timmian85]

if your squat theory was any good, then quarter repping 20 plates on the leg press should also have some merit.

[@GVS]

Range of motion still matters, I'm just saying you might not need an exaggerated range of motion. So...no, that's not my theory at all, you've misunderstood me.

[@timmian85]

@@GVS You said a heavy squat taken to parallel was as good as something lighter taken ass to grass. (less knee flexion) So why not even heavier and shallower? what is so special about parallel? Like a dumbbell french press - does the same apply? Weight mitigating a deep stretch of the triceps.

[@KayButtonJay]

That point you made about the trade off between going heavy and ROM is spot on

[@SeuOu]

This video is just misguided. Technique is never a bad thing, because technique doesn't interfere with intensity. If someone doesn't have enough intensity, it's fundamentally never because their technique is too good. Rather, it's always because they need more plates or more drive to push through discomfort or both. Train with as much intensity as you need to, with as much technique as you can. It is really that simple.

[@dylfps]

Thought the exact thing when I saw that video of the rows. Absolutely ridiculous.

[@Damian.Williams]

The best comment on Dr Mike's training style I've seen is "the 70's called and they want their training back"