Why Young Griff Is The Real Aegon Targaryen, Not Faegon: A Song Of Ice And Fire Theory

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Many fans of the A Song Of Ice And Fire series are operating under the assumption that Young Griff, the young man who claims to be Aegon Targaryen, is actually a big fat fake. And while there is significant subtext to indicate that he may be a Blackfyre instead of a Targaryen, there is even more subtext and narrative buildup to indicate that he's actually the real Aegon Targaryen. So why would George R.R. Martin's story actually be better if Young Griff is truly the long-lost heir to the Iron Throne?
Content of this video:
00:00 Introduction
00:46 House Targaryen vs. House Martell
07:31 Aegon Targaryen Screws Up Jon And Dany's Story, And That's Why He's Legit
12:02 Why Wouldn't Baby Aegon Have Been Saved?
13:12 Young Griff Being Aegon Is Just The Better Story

[@HillsAliveYT]

A few people have pointed out that at one point I accidentally said that Dany killed Viserys. Obviously I know that isn't true and I just misspoke, and I must have missed it in the edit because the larger point that I was trying to make is that Dany can be very egocentric when it comes to what is or isn't just, and while she blames everyone in Westeros for usurping her insane father she has no problem letting someone she believes is the rightful king die right in front of her. And, if Aegon winds up being real, then it shouldn't be surprising if she justifies usurping him as well, because she can play fast and loose with her own ideals so long as transgressions against her ideologies serve her greater agenda. But either way, it was my bad for not catching the mistake!

[@nenadvujakovic3335]

for fire and blood motto of her house she is cold and vengeful....i do think that even ella martell could be alive....and that only doran martell knows that...he is ploting agains lannisters for trying to kill his family but knows that they are fine in essos and that is why he doesnt take any risks...."I have worked at the downfall of Tywin Lannister since the day they told me of Elia and her children". quote from the book....no mention of their death and it could be interpreted as an att not killing...if varys saved them doran knows what fate would have come to them because some poor maiden got it

[@nenadvujakovic3335]

and thx for clearing up this to people....most have fell in love with the looks but didnt read the books....her burning of kings landing in the show is what she is...books show her side and that she is only 13 when it all started....all that killing by her orders and she doesnt flinch...not for her brother, not for that merchant she drags around with her horse and many others...she did have a reason in that world to kill them but she has a sick mind where she think it is fine because she is stormborn of house Targaryen....love her character but she is no better then most of westeros "bad man"....grrm didnt write a story about good or evil but us humans and how we handle our self the best we can....and that epitaph "stormborn" shows she is dangerous and unpredictable

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@nenadvujakovic3335 Yes agreed, she can be exceptionally brutal and what makes it scarier is that she justifies it all to herself because it's all in service of her perceived destiny. I'm one of the people who started the books after becoming a fan of the show and I was freaking ASTOUNDED at how obvious of a villain Dany seemed to be in the books very early on. I very distinctly remember loving the scene of her owning Master Kraznys and then reading it in the book and being so thrown off at how blatantly she was going down a villainous path, and then when I started reexamining everything I couldn't believe that I didn't notice it even earlier.

[@nenadvujakovic3335]

@@HillsAliveYT me too...started the show then the books...books are much better....if you like that sort of "we are just human" and no evil vs good stories i suggest mo jens books "frogs" and "tired of life and death" and others...they changed my life and how i see things in it...dany is a hero of her own story and so is ramsay bolton

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@nenadvujakovic3335 Thanks for the recs! Also it's so weird that you say that because while I don't think Dany is Ramsay level bonkers an analogy I use quite often when discussing House Targaryen is that essentially they're the Boltons when people think they're the Starks, and Dany returning to "reclaim" the Iron Throne is kinda like if Roose Bolton was deposed in the North and Ramsay came back to avenge his family.

[@constantinetranos2225]

My guess is that Faegon represents the real idea of "breaking the wheel": As long as someone is a good king, it doesn't matter whether or not he is the rightful heir. Rulership is duty, not a right. This is why he is the ultimate nemesis for Daenerys.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I definitely like that point of view, rulership being a duty that is based on the consent of the people that you govern versus Dany's perception of rulership as her right coupled with her willingness to kill anyone who disagrees is definitely an important contrast.

[@n_communicates8030]

Stannis should still be king.

[@lead_downpour8854]

A good king isn't breaking the wheel, good kings are never enough, we've had that hammered home time and time again in the history of ASOIF, the whole system needs to be irreversibly changed. That's what I hope Dany is learning how to do.

[@redadmiralofvalyria867]

@@lead_downpour8854 exactly 💯 👏

[@SkyExplosion]

@@HillsAliveYT Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them.

[@brittanyrae5771]

The Targaryens didn’t really “leave the other valyrians to their doom” - they tried to warn them, but the other families saw them as cowardly for leaving.

[@AshePBlack]

Is this really true? Because the high towers survived in westeros. Granted house of the dragon shows them as less than what are. A handful of people further back had magic. If the high towers down to alicent look velaryian then no not all were doomed

[@brittanyrae5771]

@@AshePBlack In all likelihood, they are proto-Valyrian, descendants of the Great Empire of the Dawn. Valyria rose too late for the Hightowers to be actual Valyrians.

[@dawn1424]

no they didnt. They just packed their bags and got out of there

[@anguswaterhouse9255]

Do you have any wily items saying that they tried to warn them? Because last I checked all that is said is that they had the prophecy, left and were viewed as cowards for leaving.

[@brittanyrae5771]

@@anguswaterhouse9255 I mean, if they were viewed as cowards for leaving, that kind of points to the others being aware of the prophecy as well….. they wouldn’t call them cowards for just choosing to leave with unknown reason. If others knew, how did they find out? A Targaryen had the dream. They had to have shared.

[@austinroyce256]

House Targaryen was a tiny house with little influence and the text implies they were mocked for uprooting. Valeria felt untouchable and ignored the signs IMO.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Well, and that context is very interesting given that the Targaryen house lore suddenly became that they were the greatest chosen ones and gods among men when they had previously not even been the most powerful Valyrians by a long shot.

[@Jazzinthedark84]

@@HillsAliveYT its easy to be the most powerful Valerians, if there's no one left to compete with you and no one else now has dragons. Also, wouldn't you think that you were some hot shit if you left your home, friends and the "greatest civilisation that was ever built", because one of your family dreamed it would all be destroyed and you would all die if you stayed put. If the dream really happened, and it wasn't just that they were tired of being looked down on by others (or any other reason), wouldn't you think you were pretty great if you were proved right? Look how many people after 9/11 were supposed to be there, but they ran late, missed flights, got stuck in traffic, stayed home sick etc. All those people could have died too, but didn't. I don't believe in fate personally, but a lot of people do, and they probably are pretty glad they pressed snooze, couldn't find their kids shoes before school, needed to get fuel for their car or whatever other reason. As far as I know, nobody has claimed they "dreamed of" 9/11. But if they had and had taken some kind of step to not be there, when proved right in their dream, they'd probably think their dream made them pretty impressive and might start paying more attention to dreams, prophecy, & whatever the modern equivalent of woods witches is (fortune tellers?)

[@ScorpionFlower95]

the Targaryens are that kid who's considered gifted in school but is just ordinary in college. They're special in Westeros, but ordinary in Valyria

[@kradonkragon2151]

@@HillsAliveYT yeah werent they like one of the weakest of the 40 houses? Like bottom 10 or even 5. I know there is never stated a number but it sure sounds like it in the text

[@MrFredstt]

If the Targaryen's were bottom of the barrel then I can't imagine what the top dogs were like. They must've been quite insanely powerful

[@sugarpearl9781]

Almost everyone in the books and the fandom believes Aegon is a fake so I think it’d be way more clever if he turned out to be real. There’s already precedent of royal/noble children being switched with other children to protect them (Myrcella, Bran and Rickon) and his story is significantly tied to House Martell/the Rhoynar. That’s why I believe he’s the sun’s son. Also him being legitimate holds more literary weight. Imagine the conflict between Aegon, Jon and Daenerys. Jon and his real trueborn brother and Daenerys and her older nephew who has a stronger claim to the Iron Throne then her and will already be sitting on the throne, married to Arianne when she arrives. I think Jon and Aegon’s stories are mushed together in the television series and that’s why Jon was revealed to be a legitimate son of Rhaegar named Aegon. There’s no way that’s happening in the books, even if Rhaegar and Lyanna were married it’s very doubtful anybody would recognize the marriage as legitimate when Rhaegar already has a wife and 2 heirs (so an annulment is very unlikely bc on what grounds Ratgar?) or that Lyanna would name her son Aegon.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yes I almost completely agree, I think there is a strong possibility that Rhaegar took Lyanna as his second wife instead of annulling his marriage (I have a hard time buying their whole story in general since one of the very few things we know about Lyanna is that she wanted to break it off with Robert because he was a philanderer, so I also have a hard time that she would ever have a bastard son unless Rhaegar really did force himself on her), but other than that the story of Jon, Dany, and Aegon is just far more compelling if he really is Aegon. And the constant baby-switching definitely makes me think he's real as well, and even more than that it just makes me confused as hell as to how he could possibly not be real. Like, there are so many swapped/hidden princes and princesses who are all protected like this despite the fact that they're not even the real heirs to something, and they're being protected by much less savvy people than Varys, so it's very hard for me to grasp how all of them would be genuinely saved and protected but the literal heir to the throne would just be left to die. Given how wildly detailed and internally consistent GRRM tries to make the story, I can't imagine he would overlook a common sense plot hole this big.

[@seethe313]

@@HillsAliveYT I'm curious as to what you all think of Quaithe's Mummer's Dragon warning? This is another piece of evidence as to the "Aegon = Blackfyre" theory that people point to. And, I can't say that they don't make sense. If Aegon is really the son of Rhaegar and Elia Martell, then who do you think is Quaithe's Mummer's Dragon?

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@seethe313 I think that Aegon could still be the Mummer's Dragon in the sense that he isn't a dragon in the same way that Dany is. I think that the interpretation that it means he's a Blackfyre isn't necessarily an invalid one, but in theory Blackfyres wouldn't necessarily be "false dragons" either in the sense that they literally have the blood of the dragon like Targaryens do. My interpretation when it comes to the POV of Aegon being the real Aegon is that a mummer's dragon doesn't necessarily mean that he's a false dragon, but that he's using the appearance of a dragon to win support while not actually being a fire and blood dragon in the way that Dany is. Aegon could be seen as a mummer's dragon simply because he does not have dragons, but given how tricky prophecies tend to be in ASOIAF I just don't necessarily think that means that he's not a Targaryen (and I sort of feel like him being a fake dragon but being a Blackfyre might not quite make sense given that Blackfyres aren't Targaryens but they ARE still dragons).

[@seethe313]

@@HillsAliveYT That's an interesting way of looking at it- one which I hadn't considered. So, if Aegon is indeed Aegon Targaryen son of Rhaegar and Elia, then do you believe the Blackfyre rebellion to be over? George makes a number of mentions in the books to the Blackfyre rebellion. And, the Golden Company was founded by supporters to the Blackfyre's claim to Westeros. I tend to agree that Aegon is probably a Blackfyre parading as a Targaryen. But, I do think it would be 100% awesome if Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Aegon formed the 3-heads of a new dragon in Westeros. For all we know, George could introduce a new Targaryen staking claim to the Iron Throne in Winds of Winter, for all we know! Hahahahahaha. I find it interesting to listen to other fans! Thanks for the video and the reply! Let's hope George delivers us a great book and maybe we can see the answer ourselves!

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@seethe313 LOL well I think that George very intentionally created this maddening option of Aegon either being a Targaryen or a Blackfyre where one of them is obviously meant to be an intentional mislead, but we just don't know which one yet. And regardless of whether Aegon is a Blackfyre or Targaryen, I don't think the Blackfyres would be irrelevant because I do think that Illyrio was married to a Blackfyre and I think that Serra may have been the genesis of whatever plan Illyrio and Varys concocted, which would obviously still make her/the Blackfyres very important regardless of whether or not Young Griff was her biological child. Also, if the theory that Aegon is actually Illyrio and Serra's son and a Blackfyre, I'm even more suss, because why in the world would two parents who I guess conveniently had a son at the exact same time that Aegon was born decide to give him up completely and raise him to believe that he's an orphaned prince on the off chance that this insane long plan that Varys and Illyrio have come up with would actually work? Perhaps there would be something in their backstory to explain it, but it'd be a really odd plan and decision on its face. And I agree, I lowkey love that there is no easy answer at the moment and I look forward to how George unravels the whole situation with Griff either way.

[@jasongonzalez6861]

When Varys kills Kevan Lannister he basically tells him he is the son of Rhaegar. Why would he lie to a man who is about to die? That is to me the best proof that Aegon is the son of Rhaegar.

[@umwha]

Or it could be that Varys himself was deceived.

[@blazeblade761]

Then why is the golden company supporting him

[@allyriastark3508]

@@blazeblade761 because Daenerys didn't meet them, they were told that it was Daenerys they will meet by Illyrio, who changed their plans again and bring them Aegon when Daenerys didn't return from the Slaver's Bay

[@allyriastark3508]

Not only that, but Kevan died being stabbed to death by children, is how Rhaenys was killed, same as the Grand Master who died due to blunt head wound like the Aegon/changed baby died

[@harryross9377]

Because Aegon is R+L=A and N+A=J Varys plan is to marry the Blackfyre female heir to Aegon when he takes the throne

[@kneptune1234]

If Aegon is indeed who he says he is, it reminds me a lot of the King Arthur or Aragorn archetype of the "just and wise King, raised from birth to be the perfect ruler, now come to ascend his rightful throne and avenge the injustices against his ancestors." This is an archetype that Martin has repeatedly expressed displeasure in. I think it is far more fitting of Martin‘s style to be emulating this stereotype, but subverting it by having the rightful king murdered and usurped by another who believes that they want it more. It provides a far more compelling story than Aegon just lying about who he is and playing the conniving game of thrones like everyone else, and instead subverting the trope by having the rightful heir unjustly murdered. We’ve similar themes before with Robb, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Martin chose this way to challenge an archetype he sees as unrealistic.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I think that's a really great point as well, he clearly draws a lot of inspiration from this character archetype, but creating the miraculous ideal king who is actually entitled to the throne but is also a really great ruler and then having him killed by his family member who is more powerful and feels that they are entitled to rule instead seems very on brand for him. And I totes agree about Robb, what I think is interesting about Aegon is that if he's Aegon he does seem like kind of a mirror to Robb in a lot of ways.

[@kradonkragon2151]

@@HillsAliveYT omg i just had a epithomy In another comment someone pointed out that fAegons and Jons storys were mashed together in the show which for example explains the naming of jon as Aegpn Targaryen. But what if Seaworths and Conningtons storys were also mashed together? That would explain Davos' loyalty to Jon and i think if fAegon dies and it is revealed that Jon is Rhaegars son Conington will instantly jump ship to him especially if it was Daenerys who killed fAegon. It would also be really interesting, propably the most interesting character interaction in the whole show if it is revealed to Jon that he is fAegons brother and how they would react to each other and what Conington would feel of it especially if Jon would side with Daenerys while fAegon is still alive and this info is revealed

[@redgokudera]

Wait since when he despised? Aragorn is literally his favorite fantasy character, and he is greatly inspired by Tolkien's work.

[@michakoniecpolski5677]

cope lmao

[@atishayritulpatwa7235]

I would disagree as aragorn was not raised to the king of Gondor, he was a competent ruler through his own experiences leading the rangers of the north and war in Gondor where he served as commander as well war in rohan.

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

Blackfyre or not... His claim to the throne is stronger than most.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Well in theory his claim is just as strong as anyone who wins it by right of conquest does, which is what the Targaryens and Robert Baratheon did anyway, the difference is that he might actually be a competent ruler.

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

@@HillsAliveYT Robert won it by conquest yes, but he also had blood rights by his grandmother. Robert was as much Targaryen as the Royal family. Rhaegar reffered to him as cousin.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@daemonblackfyre3238 LOL yes, but the Targaryens had no blood right to any kingdoms let alone all of Westeros either, despite all the concern about claims and birthrights, the universally agreed upon rule of power in Westeros has always seemed to be that the power belongs to whoever seizes it.

[@JB.27_]

@@HillsAliveYT the only difference is that the Targs created a unified kingdom, so in doing so, and conquering all the kingdoms, tempeh established themselves as the royal family. Your statement would be accurate if it was already unified, and the Targs usurped the throne. Either way, they became rules through conquest, but when you create the title, thrown and crown, it’s different.

[@JB.27_]

@@thetalesofelbek7042 Tywin was a great ruler, but an awful father, and that is the what created the downfall of his legacy. In the grand scheme of things, if Cersei didn’t fuck everything up,, and the dragons weren’t hatched, his legacy would probably be pretty solid in the seven kingdoms for generations. Aerys tried to knock him down over and over again, but everyone knew Tywin ran the show. And everyone knew Tywin ended the war of 5 kings, which is ultimately what most of the small folk wanted anyway. They hated all sides in the war, but once someone won, and the conflict was over, they could try to rebuild their lives.

[@nealfirstofhisname]

Varys was a mummer in his youth. So I always assumed, from when Aegon was revealed, that this was a hint that the mummer Varys, (and Illyrio) didn't support Daenerys, but Aegon. That Aegon, not Daenerys, is Varys and Illyrio's dragon.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yes and I think that is a very easy way to interpret it, and GRRM intentionally phrased it in that way because it could mean "mummer" as in fake or "mummer" as in he's just a dragon who happens to have the support of a mummer, and obviously I lean towards the latter explanation.

[@nealfirstofhisname]

@@HillsAliveYT It would also mean that Varys lied to a dying Kevan Lannister.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@nealfirstofhisname Yes! I wish I had put that in the video because honestly it seems like such an obvious tell that Aegon is Aegon, there's absolutely no point in lying to someone who is literally about to die.

[@Sinewmire]

I like the idea that Young Griff is actually Illyrio's son with Varys' blackfyre sister, and Tyrion wore Young Griff's clothes at Illyrio's manse!

[@jjh2456]

Aegon is exactly who he says he is.

[@jordanliu5422]

I recall in ACOK Varys smuggles Prince Tommen out of King's Landing and dyes his hair to disguise him as the son of a hedge knight, so it's plausible Varys could've pulled the same scheme with Aegon to save him from the rebellion or Aerys' wildfire plot. (Also there's this strange line where Varys tells Tyrion "[Doran] still mourns his sister Elia and her sweet babe": "babe" singular, not plural?)

[@HillsAliveYT]

Good catch on the "babe" thing!

[@jjh2456]

Yeah cause wasn’t their a daughter as well?

[@cliffordrose4335]

I believe it was Lannister loyalists led by Hand of the 👑 King ~ Tyrion Lannister that contrived the security plan to misdirect any potential King Stannis Baratheon forces by having Prince 🤴 Tommen kidnapped while enroute to the Free Cities and secretly stationed at nearby Castle 🏰 Rosby where his blonde hair was dyed dark and he was placed in the false identity of a page.

[@cliffordrose4335]

The parallel is that when Stannis Baratheon forces were staging an imminent invasion of Dragonstone during Robert's Rebellion . . . Targaryen loyalists may have moved to shelter Prince 🤴 Viserys Targaryen III into a false identity by secreting him down to his kin of House Dayne where his platinum hair was disguised with a midnight black dye streak and he was stationed as a page at Castle 🏰 Starfall. That is where he was living until his more appropriate accomodations of a reclusive royal residence was being constructed . . . Castle 🏰 High Hermitage. I 🤔 think the true King Viserys III was placed into the false identity of the page Gerold Dayne while still a 8 year old child. I do not believe that Gerold Dayne ever really existed at all . . . which explains why he has no verification or verifiable bloodlines nor birthyear nor birth parents no established lineage to House Dayne whatsoever (it is because he is a distant cousin of House Dayne truly as King Viserys III the great - great grandson of Lady Dyanna Dayne and Prince Maekar Targaryen but GRRM is being clever with his choice of words) Much of what you have contemplated here regarding (f)Aegon and why it is such a major plot hole if he wasn't the cynosure of noble child swap . . . is more aptly applied to 👑 King Viserys III and the multiple months of residency on Dragonstone during his mother's gestation with Daenerys in utero. The (f) Viserys theory has been overlooked by too many aSoI&F theorists for whatever reason 😆 because Dragonstone village is right there and Queen Rhaella Targaryen knows how many purple eyed, aquiline nosed and platinum haired boys of 7-11 years of age could plausibly be recruited by Targaryen loyalists to be trained as royal decoy for the last living male heir to the Iron Throne. There are numerous theories on Quora and Reddit about (f)Viserys and how much, means, motivation and opportunity that the Targaryen loyalists devoted to her Grace ~ Queen Rhaella had during all those weeks that she resided at 🏰 Castle Dragonstone with the 8 year old Prince 🤴 Viserys Targaryen III.

[@hamzaorakzai3490]

It would be fantastically tragic if Daenerys turns Aegon to ash and then it turns out that he was Rhaegar's son after all

[@HillsAliveYT]

My thoughts exactly.

[@aegonbreakspear9102]

Then I truly hope Jon Snow kills Daenarys.

[@benelliott6314]

Even though it’s been a while since I’ve read the books, I remember thinking that he absolutely believes he’s a Targaryen, and he could be a fake, however it doesn’t really matter if he is or not. Regardless of him being a Targaryen, Blackfyre, or no one, his claim and army alone will be enough to gather people to his side or against him, regardless of the legitimacy of his claim. Martin showing us that Ned’s discovery of Jaime being the father of Cersei’s children rather than Robert didn’t matter, bc Cersei had the power to call Ned a traitor and execute him. I’d personally like it for the books to never clarify Aegon’s true heritage bc it would show the importance lies more within the power behind a claim, rather than the truth of it. That’s just my opinion though, I’m sure that he’ll be an amazing character in the continuing books regardless of being Aegon or fAegon. Great video!

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah I don't expect them to actually say for certain one way or another either, but the introduction of him regardless of his real heritage will definitely be a huge game changer.

[@madalynnr9940]

Him actually being who he says makes sense from a symbolic stance as well, three heads of the dragon representing fire, ice, and water aka fire and ice. Dany being fire Targaryen, Jon being ice Stark, and Aegon being water Martell. They're all born in roughly the same time period within a year of each other so there's a balance between them in a way that doesn't work for any other three characters

[@HillsAliveYT]

Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that but you're totes right, that is some perfect ancient magical symmetry right there!

[@madalynnr9940]

@@HillsAliveYT it also ties into Aegon being a cloth dragon and distinctly non magical while Jon will literally be a direwolf and Dany is literally a dragon. And Aegon being what's best for the realm as a non magical ruler rather than the magical extremes of Jon and Dany, fire and ice destroy the world but water gives it life.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@madalynnr9940 Yes totally agree on that as well, I think that people get too wrapped up in the fantasy and forget that A. being a magician isn't actually a qualification for leadership and B. that GRRM is exactly the kind of writer who will make that apparent in his narrative. Having Dany who is extremely magical but a poor leader, Jon who is extremely magical and a pretty decent leader, and Aegon who is not at all magical (or at least hasn't tapped into it) but a good leader seems like a very GRRM-ish setup.

[@madalynnr9940]

@@HillsAliveYT absolutely! The story is in part inspired by a poem about how equally terrible fire and ice are and causing the end of the world because neither are good. Varys soliloquy perfectly illustrates what makes a good ruler and it's not being better than the people you rule. As much as I could see it potentially being the three of them ruling together like Aegon and his sisters I don't think Dany or Jon will survive the story because they're too magical and I think the story ends with the death of magic

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@madalynnr9940 Yeah, I don't think that it will end with the "death" of magic, more so a magical recession, but I've thought the same thing. I think that Jon might be the remaining survivor but I think he'll be the end of the Targaryen bloodline, and I think that a big aspect of the story/the story of the Seven Kingdoms is going to begin and end with a three-headed dragon, first with Aegon/Rhaenys/Visenya as a united front forcing the 7K together and then with Aegon/Daenerys/Jon as rivals pulling it apart.

[@FreyaEinde]

Considering Preston Jacobs is building a fun case of Daenerys being a baby swap it would be funny if this great big legacy fight ends up being between a bunch swapped out babies unattached to the actual legacies they're trying to uphold.

[@HillsAliveYT]

LOL yeah, I'm a bit dubious on Preston's take on Dany and her potentially not being who she thinks she is, but it would certainly be hilarious if the battle for the Throne winds up being the dance of swapped babies.

[@FreyaEinde]

@@HillsAliveYT it feels like the kinda dramatic irony only writers are super into. All the theories have been really fun.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@FreyaEinde Yeah agreed, and although I think Dany is probably who she thinks she is, I'm someone who really hates the idea of "Targaryen madness" and I think it's a problem with the Targaryens largely driven by their own self-obsession and horrible values and legacy as a family. Daenerys not even being a Targaryen but becoming a "mad Targaryen" because of her obsession with Targaryen exceptionalism and belief that nothing matters more than living up to that (while the real Aegon Targaryen is a great king, but is killed for not being a "true Targaryen" and rejecting that legacy) would actually be a perfect demonstration that House Targaryen's problems are rooted in nurture and not nature.

[@FreyaEinde]

@@HillsAliveYT I mean they're all kinda heinous families sans the Starks, so the idea that Targaryen's are any more mad than anyone else kinda I think is influenced by their foreigners, despite being Westeros for generations they're still outside in a way. I doubt it'll end anything like the show in that regard without a well earned lead up at least.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@FreyaEinde Personally I think that their "madness" is just a natural consequence of building their family around the idea that they're essentially gods among men who are unlike anyone else in the world. I don't think Westeros overblows their madness just because they're foreign, but I don't think they're actually insane because of some inborn flaw, I think that their "madness" (which we see reflected in a lot of other people in many different Houses in Westeros, like the Lannisters for example) comes from the same arrogant entitlement and self-obsession that it stems from for many of the other characters in the series, it's just on steroids with the Targaryens because in terms of their family ideals, their belief in their own superiority is as extreme as it can get, and for years they had a ridiculous amount of literal firepower to back up their random self-indulgent whims.

[@okamimemos1716]

Can't wait to see him and Danny interact and possibly fight, TWOW is gonna be one hell of a book. Great video!

[@HillsAliveYT]

Thanks, and same! I feel like I'm one of the few optimists about TWOW's release and I for one cannot wait to read all of it's 90,000 pages.

[@dra6ke]

Sadly, GRRM just said he is “hugely behind” in writing the book.

[@okamimemos1716]

@@dra6ke isn't he always tho lmfao

[@cosmonawt_]

@@dra6ke hugely behind is an understatement lmao. I just don't get it. There's at least 12 sample chapters out. He's claimed to have written many more pages as well. He HAS to be getting close after 10 years

[@Wolf-bz6kq]

As soon as george is done playing with bubbles trains lighthouses and other tv shows and books

[@sabrinavasquez1574]

I always thought it would be interesting if Aegon was absolutely confirmed somehow to be Rhaegar and Elia's son, but we don't find out until after Daenerys has already killed him in battle or something. Can you imagine the tragedy? I think it would improve Aegon's plot and I just like House Martell in general, and want them to have their story told properly for once. They have the most interesting House history and yet somehow I feel George R. Martin hasn't done them justice in his books considering how important it seems they should be according to the storyline. I would love to know more about King Daeron II and Queen Myriah's story! Their reign and their children are my favorite time period to learn about in A Song of Ice and Fire.

[@DavidWesley]

It's easy to overlook the possibility that the "mummer's dragon" could be associated with a mummer (actor) without being a mummer (or a prop, for that matter).

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah I'm lowkey shook that more people don't put this together because it's so obvious, I mean Varys is a mummer and Aegon could be considered "his dragon," and that would obviously still allow for the possibility of Aegon being the real deal rather than a fake.

[@Nykitta]

After watching the final season I just couldn't stop thinking that Aegon's role in the books was given to Jon Snow and that's why he was called Aegon too in the television series. I just wondered if that means that our Young Griff is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son and maybe that's why Quaithe warned at Dany about "a Mummer's Dragon", because he is pretending to be Elia Martell's son when he is not (Yet, a part of me still believes that she was talking about Varys, after all the Mummer is an actor and Varys is a such good actor playing to support the Targaryen house claim). Idk if explained myself, but I think that he could be something more than a just another Blackfyre. However, I don't care if he's a Targaryen, Blackfyre or whatever. A Dragon is a Dragon. Plus, I like him and I want to see him in the books as one of the three heads of the Dragon.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah, I think they very clearly blended portions of Young Griff's character into Jon which makes things even more confusing. And while I'm skeptical that he's the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, I do agree that there is likely something more with his character. I mean, considering the way that GRRM typically writes, it's quite strange that he immediately dumped all of these hints that Griff is a Blackfyre immediately upon introducing his character. But, while I don't really favor the idea of a Targaryen/dragon restoration I agree that the distinction doesn't really have a difference, like regardless of where it comes from he is the blood of the dragon.

[@Nykitta]

@@HillsAliveYT I agree, it’s a little bit odd that George didn’t introduced Aegon and just let us a lot of hints for many possibilities after telling us (through different characters) for many years that he was so dead and how he died that we actually believed that. Maybe that’s why people couldn’t believe the possibility that he could be the real one. Idk if we could have a dragon restoration, like winter is coming and is not the best time to made a new dance of dragons (I wonder how George could believe that he can write all of this conflict in just 2 more books).

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@Nykitta LOL well frankly I'm not surprised given that this Dance of Dragons will only have actual dragons on one side, given that they're the ASOIAF equivalent of nuclear weapons I think that once Dany decides to go fire and blood on Aegon the dance is over.

[@shizachan8421]

@@HillsAliveYT I feel like one of the stronger hints of Show!Jon getting Aegons storyline is really his name. Like, it would just be incredibly weird for Rhaegar to decide to name the Tower of Joy child Aegon while having a living child in King's Landing. Especially since I assume that Rhaegar never even expected to have a boy. His obsession was on Aegon and the reason why he needed to have a third child was not any flaw in Aegon but the idea that the dragon needs three heads, similarily to Aegon the Conqueror and his two sister-wives. So I personally assume Rhaegar originally planned to have a daughter who he would have named Visenya. I fully expect that if the Tower of joy child is a boy and that if Lyanna had the opportunity to give him a name, he would probably have named him Viserys, which is the male form of Visenya. Though I personally assume Aegon is f!Aegon but that he is not a Blackfyre, but the Tower of Joy child, but he is passed on as both a Blackfyre and a Targaryen, when in actuality he is neither by birthright, but just a bastard who was supposed to be a girl for Rhaegars son to marry and bang.

[@Speedwagon..]

What if Aegon and Jon is twins? Varys took Aegon because he was blond and looked like Rhaegar and the Targaryens. And Ned took Jon as his bastard because Jon looked like Lyanna and the Starks... Then 'blue rose on a wall of ice' is Jon Snow. and the mummer dragon is Aegon, because he is not the son of Elia Martell, as he claims.

[@lindenshepherd6085]

I love that you’re questioning so many of the common fan theories for ASOIAF! I always the “mummer” part of the “mummer’s dragon” was a reference to Varys and Illyrio being mummers themselves, but that their trickery meant Aegon wasn’t who he claimed to be. It’d be more interesting for sure if he was really Aegon.

[@josharguello4313]

Regardless if Aegon is true or not, I dont think we've seen any evidence that suggests that Aegon will be a good king. We've actually seen evidence of the contrary. For example, when Tyrion beats Aegon at cyvasse, Aegon literally upturns the board in anger. This demonstrates a sense of entitlement to winning and a potential anger management problem. Later, Tyrion easily manipulates Aegon into revealing his own identity and change his plans entirely. This demonstrates that Aegon is inpatient, naive, and lacks any strategic sense. The fact that Tyrion uses Aegon's own pride against him also demonstrates his sense of entitlement. He doesnt feel like he needs Dany's help because HE is the true heir. In addition, although he lacks dragons, let's not kid ourselves. Aegon is bringing war and devastation to Westeros in his own right with the Golden Company, a sellsword company that has strong affiliations with the Blackfyres. Assuming that Aegon is a real Targaryen, it seems absolutely foolish for him to believe that the Golden Company would throw their support behind him without an ulterior motive. So, Aegon is being set up as a pretty foolish leader, who ultimately will fail because he's blinded by his own hubris.

[@JennaMac24]

One thing I don't hear very often is why would Jon Connington disgrace himself and go to all this trouble for a Blackfyre bastard? I can see him doing it for Rhaegar's child, legitimate or not. I don't think he would have just taken Varys's word. He's have had to have some kind of proof this was really Rhaegar's child before giving up his whole life for him.

[@ryankwon8785]

I think Jon Connington personally did the baby switch and personally brought Aegon to Pentos before his exile.

[@brookb5890]

I never considered the Martell vs Targaryen aspect of Young Gryff/Aegon's story, and I have to say it's a very strong point! I've always said that if the Iron Throne really does remain at the end of the story (which I'm not really convinced it will), then it won't be a Targaryen sitting atop it, but if the show runners were just trying to get the closest approximation to the outline GRRM gave them, then they might have gone with Bran simply because he was the closest character they had to represent Aegon. That being said, I'm still pretty confident that the Iron Throne is going to be destroyed and the kingdoms of Westeros are going break apart UNLESS the white walkers do more damage than they did in the show. The only reason I could see for the realm remaining united at the end of this is if it's just in such a weak state that they have to remain united in order to survive. I'm an American and so is GRRM so I've always just figured by the end of this story, feudalism in Westeros is going to die and the eventual government will look more like the ones in Braavos and the Free Cities.

[@OfficialChrissums]

the main thing I think would make this work is if Danny really is destined to go slightly mad targaryan. Her finally making it to westeros only to encounter a fake targaryan who is beloved by the people over the strange lady from the east with the dragons is something I could see pissing her off enough to kill. It being revealed after that he actually was a real targ would be quite a strong moment and would contribute to what i think her endgame is: 1: she will lose her dragons, either over the course of the war or by her own hand and 2: she will return to essos, realizing that westeros is not truly her home.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I actually think this is very likely what's going to happen, I think that she'll be infuriated at the fact that people believe in Aegon as a Targaryen ruler and I don't know if anything could ever convince her that he's real, but there would be a lot more dramatic tension to the story if he actually were real and she was directly usurping the real Targaryen heir because she simply wants power. I think that there is almost no way that Dany makes it out of the story alive, but one of the great tragedies of her character is that she has always rejected Essos as her home and never claimed herself as an Essosi because Viserys fed her this lie that Westeros belonged to the Targaryens and was their only true home, and she has fixated on this dream of home for so long that when she gets to Westeros and realizes it's not her home either I think it's going to be an absolutely crushing blow to her emotionally. I feel like Dany has two sides of herself that are in constant conflict with one another, one side is the violent Targaryen conqueror who thirsts for power and the other is the scared child who just wants a safe home, and I think when she arrives in Westeros and is forced to confront that this isn't home either she's going to basically leave the scared child in her behind and become the violent Targaryen conqueror almost completely.

[@Midgert89]

@@HillsAliveYT Agreed, you definaltely understand Danys pschyche. Even ASOIAF fans that i respect alot like Quinns Ideas and David Lightbringer are attatched to the disney princess reading of Daenerys. It really gets frustrating that people like that ignore all the metatextual hints. She's basically the embodiment of GRRM's critiques of Sauron as an antagonist.

[@dr0g_Oakblood]

On one hand, him being a Blackfire does fit with quite a few of the themes of the story, like with Varys promoting him as real since the power of his claim will be because people believe it is real, stuff like that. On the other hand, him being the trueborn child of Rhaegar does fit reasonably within the timespan of the books if you dig deep enough, and the things you find with such a dive also hint towards Jon being the son of Ned and Ashara Dane, possibly leading up to a Sword of the Morning culmination, but that is not particularly likely, as George is not keen on big "Climactic Good VS Evil" battles deciding actual history.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah, I definitely think that there is obvious evidence that Aegon could be a Blackfyre as well, and I think it's very intentional on George's part that there is groundwork laid to make each possibility quite believable. It's just for me, I feel like Aegon being Aegon is the more interesting story and it seems to work very well thematically, and I also just think that there is an astonishing amount of evidence that Aegon could be real that everyone seems to ignore. I just find it odd that the fandom opinion is that he's almost certainly a Blackfyre, when honestly I really can't figure out why the Targaryens and Martells would have arguably the richest developed history and rivalry of any Houses in the series if it's not because Aegon Targaryen is who he says he is. Plus, it's just very hard to imagine a world in which so many hidden Targaryens are saved but for some reason, the heir to the throne is not.

[@dr0g_Oakblood]

@@HillsAliveYT Indeed, and part of me wonders if George left the potential for both on the table to avoid writing himself into a corner if the story developed differently than he originally intended. Shame that we might never see the conclusion to these characters if George dies before he finishes the series lol.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@dr0g_Oakblood Haha well I feel like I'm one of the only ones, but I'm extremely optimistic about the release of the future books, but I also feel like this is one mystery he might want to remain a mystery, given that Jon has previously questioned "how someone could stand by and watch their brother be burned alive" I can sort of see George leaving that as a permanent question mark in Jon's mind, whether or not he stood by and watched his brother be burned alive by siding with Dany.

[@HerrXoxy]

Jon is a Dayne though

[@MrPokemon248]

Aegon taking the throne from Cersei. Marrying Sansa and being the one true king of westeros and a just/noble man. Who must unite the people against the invasion of Jon resurrected as the night king. And Danny from across the sea. A normal guy facing off against 2 armies at the same time. 1 army of ice the other of fire. I could see that being the epic final to these books.

[@saurabhsuman4197]

I agree with you. Even I don't think that Aegon is a Blackfyre. Him being the son of Rhaegar and Elia will basically bring Dorne to the centre of the entire plot. Plus, the mad king Aerys was feared while Rhaegar was loved. And Aegon being Rhaegars son has the potential of rallying Lords of westoros behind him. But there is a catch; there is no proof that Aegon is really the son of Rhaegar. Another thing to be noted is that, at this juncture, Westeros is ravaged by war and in such conditions, how will the people of Westeros be able to accept a girl from other continent with 3 dragons as their queen?

[@HillsAliveYT]

A girl from another continent with three dragons and likely hundreds of thousands of mouths to feed, I think that will actually be Dany's greatest downfall when she invades Westeros. As you said, no one will ever know for sure if Aegon is truly Rhaegar's son, but I think that Aegon will rally a lot of lords behind him simply because he's actually an effective ruler and administrator, which rulers like Dany, Cersei, and Joffrey very obviously are not. The Targaryens have historically not been very good managers or rulers, and while the old adage puts their greatness and madness on the gods, I actually think Aegon is going to ironically demonstrate that there isn't some inherent flaw or superiority in the Targaryens, it's just that their obsession with their own greatness and obsession with themselves has prevented them from being good kings and queens. But, that ironic twist wouldn't exist if Aegon were just a Blackfyre, so I think he's meant to contrast Dany in a lot of ways including to show that she was never insane or "born bad" as a Targaryen, but she simply chose her own glory over being a competent queen.

[@williamwhitfield6225]

A girl with three dragons, and a horde of Dothraki, and a army of Unsullied. She’ll be looked at as a foreign invader as soon as she touches down in Westeros.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@williamwhitfield6225 Totes agreed, Young Griff's whole squad was very smart in that they organized an invasion with an army that will be perceived by many as a Westerosi army, and they don't appear to be bringing any excess baggage. The fact that Dany is bringing a much larger force than she requires to conquer Westeros and that they're going to be both foreign and the kinds of armies that Westerosi children heard stories about like they're the boogeyman is going to have a HUGE impact on what I think will likely be Dany's failure to win over the Westerosi.

[@williamwhitfield6225]

@@HillsAliveYT The Irony is that Dany is in fact foreign herself, she’s talks of Westeros being home but she has never actually physically been in Westeros. Closest she’s ever been was when she was born on Dragonstone, she was raised in Essos and became all that she is in Essos. As far as I can remember she has no real teachings of the history of the houses or the culture of Westeros. Only what she has been told by her brother, Jorah, and Illyrio. And I get the feeling she’s not going to be interested in learning when she arrives. I feel she sees most of the great houses as traitors and the reason she had to flee Westeros to begin with. And I believe that her being heralded as a savior and damn near a living god by the ppl in Essos is going to start going to her head (it would do that to any of us). And I think she’ll be looking to remake Westeros into her idea of the perfect world. Which of course would get her killed sooner or later even if she did win the Iron Throne. The Lords will never stop scheming and plotting her downfall and sooner or later she will fall without support from the major houses. Aegon knew this when he conquered Westeros which is why he adopted almost all of the customs of Westeros instead of forcing Valaryian culture upon them. And he won much support that way and won many castles without having to spill a drop of blood. I honestly see what Dany is trying to do would bring about a second rising of the Valaryian empire, for one I don’t think she’ll stop at Westeros. And although she despises and is currently abolishing slavery, I would imagine her dragons will eventually lay eggs. These eggs should hatch and bring on more dragons, Dany will eventually die and her line will rule. And much like Valryia began opposing slavery, but then morphed into a massive empire that took slaves by the thousands when they conquered new lands. Dany’s vision of a better world would most likely grow into a oppressive empire who uses the power of dragons to take what they want. You would probably have another Targaryen civil war at some point that would lead to another dance of dragons. And all the past atrocities would simply end up repeating themselves. There’s a great number of reasons Dany shouldn’t sit the iron throne if you think about it. And George has obviously written the story in a sort of time loop where past events repeat themselves. And I think the end of the story will be that cycle being broken and the hope of a new world being born.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@williamwhitfield6225 I couldn't agree more on everything, despite the fact that we're trapped in Dany's POV there are a lot of hints that are as subtle as an anvil that Dany's invasion of Westeros is going to go terribly, and even more than that, she's going to absolutely hate Westeros and its people. She has built up Westeros as this magical land where all of her dreams will come true, and the reality will never ever match that, which I think will trigger a huge, probably literal, meltdown for her.

[@PlatipuseKing]

Release the book already George, we've come full circle. Faegon is now actually Aegon

[@WillowGardener]

I'm re-reading Dance with Dragons, and I just stumbled on a quote that I think refutes this. Tyrion is talking to Moqorro and asks what he sees in the fire. Moqorro says "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all." Each classification of dragon seems to indicate one Targaryen's distinction from the others. "Old and young": Aemon vs the other three. "True and false": Faegon vs the other three. "Bright and dark": Jon vs the other three, referring to his hair. And Tyrion "in the midst of all". Tyrion was in the midst of Jon and Aemon at the wall, in the midst of Faegon on the Rhoyne, and will presumably be in the midst of Dany in the winds of winter. I can't think of any other potentially fake Targaryens Tyrion has been chilling with, so I think this is meant to tip us off to young Griff being either a Blackfyre or a relative of Illyrio. Of course, the dark dragon could also refer to a Blackfyre...

[@Paolur]

Makes sense, the dragon does have three heads after all

[@conor698]

I've always perceived the dragon having three heads as more the riders of dragons rather than Targaryen heirs, but that could definitely be the case. It could be any combination of potential riders with Dany being the only true lock but other contenders of Jon, Euron, Bran (through warging) Tyrion or Victarion...

[@benjaminalderson5644]

I think what is better is that we never find out if he is a blackfire or not. It makes sense that it just doesn’t matter if he is who he says as long as he and those around him believe it. Power lies where people think it does and his actions are more important than his genealogy

[@najex1]

Okay, Danny didn't just kill Viserys because he wasn't a 'true Targaryen'. You could argue she didn't kill him at all. Veserys drew a sword in the Dothraki holy city (a death sentence by itself) and threatened to cut Danny's belly open. All Danny did was translate his threats to Kal Drogo and then not tell him to stop when he went to kill Viserys. And considering that Viserys had just threatened to kill her and has been horrible to her for years, I think this is understandable. I just have a really hard time seeing Danny deteriorating like in the show. Yea, she makes some horrid mistakes, but I've always gotten the impression she is learning and getting better, not worse. I also disagree with some of the assumptions here. That having Martell blood would just inherently make you a better person. There have been some good Targaryen kings. In the end, I don't think it matters one wit who (f)Eagon's parents are. The very idea of parents determining your worth is fundamentally flawed. If Jon Snow is actually a bastered, would that make him less awesome of a guy? No. If Joffrey had been a completely different personality and turned out to be an awesome dude and king, would we care that he's a bastered? No. What matters is, if you've got the support and backing to take/hold the throne and rule wisely. If (F)Eagon can land and get enough support to take the throne and then rule well, then the truth about his parents doesn't matter. In the end, I think Renly had the right of it, strange as that sounds. All that matters is if you can get enough people to support you to become king, and then be a decent ruler. There is no such thing as a 'rightful' king, as if an accident of birth determines who is best to rule.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Well personally, I think that if the show had changed something as major as Dany being the final villain, George would have mentioned it at some point given that he's been open about things he's disagreed with like Lady Stoneheart being cut or Sansa's changed storyline. I also can't fathom why the writers would choose to make a heel turn with Dany at the very end of the series despite the fact that she was their most popular character by a long shot if there wasn't any precedent for it either. And it seems like at the end of the last book, Dany officially decided to use fire and blood to get what she wanted, which indicates to me that shit is about to get really real since all of the horrible shit she's done thus far was her actively trying not to use fire and blood to get what she wants all the time. And I wasn't trying to imply that having Martell blood makes someone a better person, rather that many of Dany's mistakes stem from her obsession with her own specialness and from the idea of Targaryen exceptionalism, so offering such a thematically different option for a character like Aegon has to be relevant. It has absolutely nothing with blood and everything to do with choices, Jon and Aegon aren't better because they have Stark or Martell blood, but because they weren't raised to believe that they're the most extraordinary human beings who have ever lived, which is largely what I think "Targaryen madness" really is, not some inborn flaw in Targaryens but a flaw in their mentalities that often leads them down horrific paths. Ironically, they're characters who will highlight who Dany could have been had she not leaned into the Targaryen obsession with being gods on earth and who will show that burning King's Landing wasn't some inevitability that the Mad Queen was always destined to do, but something she simply chose to do because she felt very entitled to power and hates and feels threatened by those who don't believe that she's entitled to it too. And my larger point about Viserys is that Dany usurped him, not that she executed him herself. She justifies nearly everything that she does because she believes that she's the last Targaryen and the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, but if she thinks that being the "rightful heir" is so important, it's quite telling that she didn't speak up for who she believed was the rightful heir even when he was about to be killed. It also seems wildly important that when she watches her brother and the only family she's ever known die screaming in front of her eyes, her biggest reaction is that he wasn't a "true dragon". I think it's disingenuous to write that off or presume that she's not using that as an excuse, especially given that she is obsessed with destroying the "usurper's dogs" and doesn't seem to be interested in the fact that they too were in a position where their lives depended on overthrowing her father. Her behavior towards Viserys just seems like a good demonstration of her hypocrisy and the fact that she always seems to see herself as the exception to every rule when it's convenient for her. I also just think that it can't be a coincidence that George is offering up another "rightful Targaryen heir" who likely won't be Targaryen enough for Dany, and if Aegon isn't who he says he is then it quite easily lets her off the hook for trying to unseat someone who is trying to "steal her throne".

[@najex1]

@@HillsAliveYT All fair points. Though I still disagree with her and Viserys. I find it hard to blame her for not standing up for her abuser. Does it make her hypocritical that she stood up for her abuser when she blames the Starks and Beratheons for standing up to her father? I don't know. What she knows of Robert's rebellion largely comes from Viserys' biased accounts. So her anger at them mostly comes from ignorance. It's been a long time since I read the last few books, so I don't know if Barristan explained the truth to her, or what her reaction to that was. I wouldn't use post-book show as canon for future books. I'm not even convinced that Jon is Lyanna's kid yet.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@najex1 No I don't blame her for standing up for her abuser, it's more so her reaction that I find strange. For instance, George writes in a few situations where characters witness their own abusers dying or the characters actually killing their abusers, but their reactions still tend to be emotional while Dany's just sticks out as odd, and I feel like he must have written it that way for a reason. It also sticks out to me as odd that she is so selective about what Viserys said, i.e. she has enough insight to understand that he was sad and pathetic and she recognizes some of what he says as obvious lies/misbeliefs, but she seemingly believes everything that he says about the Targaryen exceptionalism and entitlement. She even has enough insight to recognize that his belief that he is destined to rule the Seven Kingdoms is insane, but for some odd reason she completely believes that to be true about herself. She just seems to engage in a lot of weird cognitive dissonance when it comes to the belief that she is the most extraordinary person alive and that being a Targaryen makes her entitled to anything she wants. And I understand why some people don't think that the end of Game of Thrones is necessarily going to be the exact same end in the books, I don't think it's going to be the same either, but given that GRRM said that the broad strokes are going to be the same I can't imagine that King's Landing doesn't qualify as a broad stroke. Also just based on what he's said about the dragons and what they represent, as well as the fact that using the dragons to burn cities is one of the biggest Chekhov's guns in the entire story, it just seems like there's no way that burning a city with dragonfire won't happen at some point. I think Aegon will be a huge predicating factor for that, but I think that Dany will likely be a hugely destructive force in Westeros and the world in general. Honestly, she already has been in a lot of ways. However, we won't know until we know, and while I obviously think that the end of Game of Thrones is a huge indication that Dany is going to burn King's Landing, no one can say for sure until the books actually come out.

[@-bdl-9272]

@@HillsAliveYT I don't think Dany's reaction is strange, the SOIAF books are full of reactions like that. I mean, Sansa was 11 when she first saw someone die, and she didn't feel a thing or look away. Bran was 6 years old and his reaction is similar... Although yes, I agree that Dany is believing lies that she thought were ridiculous about Viserys. This has been the case ever since she became Khalesi, which is when she suddenly starts showing an interest in Westeros.

[@AshePBlack]

The books leave it open for dany to go mad. Over a handful of Targaryen good or bad can be rash and hot blooded. But it seems to be targs arnt all mentally grounded. I mean daemon chilled a little as got older but he's morally grey but gets immense fan hate. Dany had logical reasons to snap, doesn't make it right, technically cersaei Lannister snapped and fans say dany is worse but she's not. But blood matters. It's not about who sits on the throne but Targaryen literally have dragons blood that is probably a contributed to mental instability, I mean they have lizard babies, they obviously haven't touch on dragon psychology yet but every few targs come out bad. Being half Targaryen or less gives a person more desirable traits but let's start with how snow was raised, then there's fact he's first half stark half Targaryen also starks are descended from first men but warging isn't esos magic and the stark family can do it. Also there's fact targs were bottom of the barrel when compared to other dragon lords, maybe they had less desirable features or traits, here I mean behavioral or genetic issues. Per a Targaryen sitting iron throne, they were a prideful house, they say a Targaryen must sit throne similar to how starks say there must always be a stark in winter fell. Although starks have a better reason. But house Targaryen won't die, it's like martins fave house

[@mukikrishnan7587]

I disagree that fAegon being Aegon is a better story, mainly because of Varys’ plot line. The idea that Varys is just an ultra rational futurist who saves Aegon because he is the best ruler doesn’t align with George’s mantra of the “human heart in conflict with itself.” If fAegon and Varys are Blackfyres, Varys becomes a much more layered character - a spymaster who looks after his real family under the guise of cold rationality and “serving the realm.” Also the golden company secretly supporting another Blackfyre rebellion is way cooler and makes more sense given the history of the series

[@HillsAliveYT]

Oh yeah, I don't really roll with the theory that Varys is a Blackfyre, but if he is then I'd agree with you.

[@guzkus1]

Varys being a slave and an actor who rose the ranks to put a second Jaehaerys I on the throne to bring decades of peace to the realm is a better story than Varys being a Blackfyre-born guy trying to get his nephew on the throne. That makes him just another player. And the Golden Company uniting around a competent leader, a good Targaryen, says something positive about the human heart.

[@goatmc]

So the Mad King disinherited Rhaegar, making Viserys the heir, but Dany had him killed, leaving three dragons so to speak, Jon, Aegon & Dany. I don’t think they’ll hold a great council, I think this will be a might makes right type of fight. If there was a great council, I would expect Aegon to be chosen. As for Jon, right now he’s dead, while the lawful king of Westeros freezes to death in the Crofters village. But my question for you is why would the Golden company be fighting for Aegon, if he’s really a Targ & not a blackfyre. The Golden company broke a contract to fight for this boy prince. If he was a Targaryian that would make little literary sense, even Tyrion questions Illyrio about this matter & he says something about a dragon red or black is still a dragon. Ok, if a dragon is just a dragon, red or black, then why didn’t they take up for Viserys when he was literally begging them too? But I agree with your sentiments & hope you’re right. I think it makes it that much more intriguing.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I think it will definitely be a might makes right type of fight. But essentially, Varys has to be lying to someone, right? He's almost certainly convinced the Golden Company to fight for Griff because they've made him believe that he's a Blackfyre, but he's convinced quite a few other people to fight for him because they think he's Aegon Targaryen. Everyone is presuming that he's truly a Blackfyre, but I just don't necessarily believe that's the case.

[@ae9is603]

Found your channel just now, and boy am I happy :)

[@HillsAliveYT]

Thank you!

[@SeptaShaenasSapphires]

Not sure I agree. BUT I love that you are questioning the “accepted” theory. ---The pie got Joff, Dany is 100% immune to 🔥, and Cersei and Jaime have different dads.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Haha yes I mean I'm not sure I agree with my own theory either, but I totes think it's way more fun to question a lot of the fandom ideas that have gotten so popular that people treat them as fact, especially when ASOIAF is so insanely rich in subtext and there actually are a lot of subtextual clues that indicate that commonly held beliefs about the story aren't necessarily true.

[@SeptaShaenasSapphires]

Hill's Alive ...I noticed you also used the word/idea of “subtext” during the video. For my part, I have been critical of those who create a narrative from how they read/interpret the subtext, rather than sticking to just the text GRRM provides. Beginning to think I may be wrong to approach ideas with this bias. -- anyway, before your video appeared in my feed I had just reread the epilogue of Dance. It gets to the heart of the Faegon debate both with Kevan’s memory of the baby’s face and hair and with the story Varys tells Kevan, his little birds and the big raven.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@SeptaShaenasSapphires I mean, I think if you want to interpret purely the text there is more than enough to unpack there anyway, but there is of course a lot of interesting subtext in the material as well. I think it's a really fun aspect of the story to mull over, but I think a larger fandom problem is not finding the middle ground between completely ignoring the subtext or treating certain subtextual interpretations like gospel. Everybody's just guessing, and it's fun to guess, but some people do need to actually remember that guesses aren't facts.

[@conor698]

@@HillsAliveYT That the fandom has simply accepted so many things as fact is, I believe, the best part of questioning these theories. I think that's a great way to approach theory-crafting.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@conor698 Totes agreed! I tend to approach everything I read/watch from a character analysis standpoint just because that's my favorite part of every story, but I feel like on the occasions where I've actually questioned the popular theories I've felt like there are some interesting ideas to at least be explored there. And while I definitely want to do some more ASOIAF theory videos I also never feel married to a single idea because it's way too easy to overlook a lot of interesting thought threads when you get too wrapped up in a single theory.

[@durjoymaitra3840]

I love the points you're making about Dany's character and I think its why we'll never truly know if Young Griff is Faegon or not. Regardless of if he's a true Targaryen or not, he'd be a good king but Dany feels this immense responsibility, and more so entitlement, to the Iron Throne and she will ruin the very best thing for the people she so desperately wants to "save."

[@bryanleslie4259]

I LIKE THIS. It's amazing that I've assumed he's been a blackfyre pretender since the beginning. Never even thought he could be Jon's actual half-brother. It would be really cool, but highly doubtful, if they have a moment realizing they're brothers.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah, I was also initially sold on the idea that he was a Blackfyre pretender just because it's such a common fan theory that it's almost treated as fact already, but after considering it I really couldn't understand why there would be so much backstory for the Martells or for their relationship with the Targaryens if it weren't going to be hugely significant at some point. And then once I started looking at things from the POV of Aegon being real, it seemed like there was a lot more backing that up than backing up the idea that he was a Blackfyre.

[@bryanleslie4259]

@@HillsAliveYT very interesting. I really appreciate this post! I'm glad I stumbled across it. It makes sense the Martells will play a bigger part going forward. There's been more POV chapters leading into TWOW from Dorne than in the beginning now that I think about it. Just points to the back story you're talking about and how important it is for what's to come. I, like others already that have posted, find it hard to believe GRRM will actually lay out whether he is or isn't Rhaeger/Elia's child. Since he likely won't, I feel like I almost have to treat it like he is now. I also appreciate that you painted Aegon different, as a competent ruler. Side note: I wonder whether the book will have Jon's name different from Aegon. Rhaeger didn't know Aegon (from Elia) will die. Always seemed odd to me that there were two Aegons from the same father.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@bryanleslie4259 I agree! I don't think there can ever be a Maury moment where it's made irrefutably clear that Aegon is really Aegon Targaryen, but I think that the current subtext ultimately points more towards him being legitimate than not. And I'm always a bit torn on Jon's name. I personally like the idea that his name is just his name, that he is just Jon and he has no "true Targaryen name". I think that GoT obviously tried to fuse Jon and Aegon together anyway though, so even if he has a Targaryen name in the books I highly doubt it'll be Aegon. I'm partial to the theory that he'd be named after Aemon the Dragonknight, and I feel like after all of the fandom buildup GRRM might feel pressured to have the big revelation of Jon being so-and-so Targaryen, but ultimately I more like the idea that Jon is just Jon, that after all of Rhaegar's obsession with completing his imagined Targaryen destiny, his last child is simply named after the first man to rebel against the absolute rule and obsessive superiority of the Targaryens to save someone that he loved.

[@sinjun1973]

I'm happy to see this video. I believe Young Griff is Aegon. I know I'm in the minority on that one but it really makes the most sense to me. He is the 'Mummer's Dragon' as in Varys' choice but I don't think that has anything to do with his validity. It's Quaithe, talking in riddles.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I agree! I feel like "mummer's dragon" could mean a lot of things, and given what we've seen of prophecy, it's almost certainly not the most obvious thing. Aegon being fake would clearly be the most obvious thing, so assuming that he's fake seems like a mistake.

[@Oswald_Thatendswald]

technically there are several definitions of the word "mummer". one of which doesn't necessarily have to do with "validity". Its just another word for "entertainment". which is exactly what this all will be if he turns out to really be aegon. lol

[@Melissa-hd3jr]

But If he is a Targaryen, why would the golden company help him? They hate the Targaryens because they think the Blackfyres where the rightful heirs

[@dawry9408]

I don't agree that this theory is in Martin's style. He loves Chekhov's gun principle and everything leads to him being a Blackfyre with some serious contracting evidence on him being who he is: - Varys is NOT a Targaryen loyalist. His influence on Mad King's court grew with the latter's increasing paranoia, he convinced Aerys to attend Harrenhal tourney so Rhaegar couldn't dethrone him and he was an active figure in ploy to assassinate Daenerys, who was saved only by Mormont's change of heart. Why would he do that to then orchestrate Rhaegar's son on the throne? - Tyrion describes Young Griff as a 15 year old, whereas original Aegon would be 18 at the time. - Golden Company breaks contract for the first time in history for a Targaryen? Totally impossible. Daenerys even recalls that its officers had been invited to a feast by Viserys and only laughed at him. Illyrio also answers Tyrion that "Black or red, a dragon is a dragon." which aligns perfectly with the fact that Connington, Martells and lords of Westeros believe him to be real. Btw. Daenerys and Quaithe both talk about mummers in regards to cloth dragon and Varys himself was a mummer.

[@Stay_Zerose]

The big flaw in this is that it doesn't explain the golden company fighting for Aegon. It's an organisation dedicated to over throwing the Targayrens to put a Blackfyre on the Throne. So if Aegon is legit, why do they fight for him?

[@Charles-In-Charge]

You said Danaerys killed Viserys… what??? Drogo and to a lesser extent Jorah clearly killed him. Danaerys didn’t feel bad about it at that point, but she is not a kinslayer or a kingslayer.

[@eric2500]

One thing this is not covering is how it was forseen that baby prince Aegon needed to be protected, (and was swapped)when everyone assumes that Rhaegar's army will win, and nobody thought Jamie or anyone else would snap and kill Aerys.

[@eric2500]

I think you get dramatic tension if Aegon is a Blackfyre - potentially more. Massive fun the author is having with hints like " A dragon is still a dragon", not to mention that in a world where everyone values "BLOOD" as a way to be the rightful heir, it turns out that TRAINING and DUTY are what make a person a good ruler.

[@WillowGardener]

I think you make some good points. However, George put a lot of effort into coming up with the events of the Blackfyre rebellion. It would be odd for them not to be paid off in some way. I feel like this is an instance of Chekov's dragon.

[@Austinicy]

I think you're onto something. It would make more sense, because Griff is only doing what he's doing because he believes him to be Rhaegar's son, him being fake would undervalue Griff's arc and sacrifice.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Well, and for me what makes Griff as the real Aegon hit different is just that the narrative really builds up House Targaryen to be the most exceptional and extraordinary people who ever lived, when there are a lot of subtextual indication that basically these are just normal people who happen to control dragons. I think Griff and Jon both becoming non-traditional Targaryens who don't think that cleaving to the ideals of Targaryen exceptionalism is the only think that matters BUT that actually achieve greatness through rejecting a lot of the toxic elements of Targaryen heritage would be a wonderful, ironic twist.

[@cruddddddddddddddd]

@@HillsAliveYT There's also the possibility that other people with little or no Targaryen blood can control dragons. Were all the dragonseeds from the Dance really Targ bastards? I wonder. Could Bran, who is not a Targ, potentially warg into a dragon? I wonder if it's more that Targs are normal-ish people who happen to own dragons, bonding with them from a young age. Perhaps the magic is less on the Targaryen side and more on the dragon side, if that makes sense.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@cruddddddddddddddd Oh yeah for sure, I mean we know for a fact that there were other Valyrian dragonlord families anyway, but I think the Targaryens got lucky in two ways. Firstly, I think the Targs and other dragonlords are basically like dragonstein monsters, I think they magically fused themselves with a splash of dragon mojo which results in some dragon-like babies on occasion but also makes it much easier for them to control dragons. And secondly, I think the Targaryens specifically got lucky because not only did they survive the Doom of Valyria, but they were the only family left with dragons. Ergo, there could be other dragonlord bloodlines left out there in the world, but they just didn't have dragons to bond with. And, I don't think it's impossible for a non-Targaryen or even a non-Valyrian to maybe become a dragonrider, but I think it's much easier for the Targaryens because they did something squirrelly to literally make themselves part dragon.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@cruddddddddddddddd Oh and also I went into this a bit in a video I did about the dragons, but I actually think it's HUGELY telling that no one has ever warged into a dragon even though warging isn't a wildly unusual skill in Westeros and the dragons were extremely dangerous. I think that the dragons likely aren't naturally occurring animals and they're a magical creation, so wargs seemingly can't warg into them. However, even with that said I think it would make sense if other people could become dragonriders, and the fact that everyone assumed that all dragonriders had to be dragonseeds is just another facet of the Targaryen obsession with their own super specialness and their great PR strategy when it comes to getting everyone to believe that they're the most extraordinary people on the face of the planet.

[@cruddddddddddddddd]

@@HillsAliveYT I’ve heard the Targ=magically dragon-spliced DNA theory as well. I know they have a history of stillbirths that may look dragon-like. But I’ve also kept the possibility open that the stillbirths were simply due to inbreeding, and those stillbirths weren’t as monstrous as the stories say (details get exaggerated over time). I remember the story the Viper told Tyrion when he arrived at Kings Landing: how he’d heard Tyrion was a monstrous demon baby. But when he actually saw baby-Tyrion he was just a baby with a slightly enlarged head. I know Mirri Maz Duur told Dany her baby was half dragon, but she could’ve been saying that to twist the knife a little more - Dany never actually saw the baby herself, unless I’m remembering wrong (I just did a reread and I’m pretty sure Dany never sees the baby). Idk. I like the ambiguity of the story: is it supernatural or is it hype? I know supernatural stuff happens in the stories, but I like the line Martin has towed so far. And I hope many of these mysteries remain unexplained.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Is the theory that Young Griff a Blackfyre the right call, or could he truly be Aegon Targaryen?

[@ramanbankra435]

Him being nothing other than Aegon would nullify anything that has been built for Dornish vengeance and justice. Baby swaps are very common in ASOIAF, so it won't be surprising the same had been done for him. Again I don't think , it will be ever spelled out that he is Elia's son.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@Raman Bankra Yeah I agree, the theme of baby swaps is incredibly common, and although the narrative hasn't explored it yet, the story element of the Dornish wanting justice but not getting it because they're not willing to cross their own moral lines for it is such a big plot thread that has to go somewhere. I agree that it probably won't ever be spelled out that he's Elia's son either, but I love the idea of Jon discovering his Targaryen heritage and leaving behind that toxic legacy and claiming his identity as a Stark, and I think that would dovetail really beautifully with this huge buildup of Rhaegar being this noble prince and House Targaryen being brutal but exceptional, and then having Aegon Targaryen choose to embrace the Martell beliefs of prioritizing your people over yourselves.

[@fifimaqois2882]

@@HillsAliveYT thank you it is so refreshing from that other KZbin videos that all talk about how wonderful perfect rhaegar is and how the martells need to get over want happened to elia but then turn around have have no problem with other houses getting justice

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@fifimaqois2882 LOL yes, it's hard to pick a least favorite character in the entirety of ASOIAF, but Rhaegar is near the top for me simply because people paint him like a fantasy prince when in reality he was a self-obsessed lunatic who was so caught up in the idea of being the lone source of the world's saviors that he destroyed two women's lives, destroyed their families, and let the entire country devolve into war. And I think Elia is yet another one of GRRM's perspective traps, the audience doesn't care about her because we haven't met many characters who do, and we have major POV characters like Dany or Cersei brushing her off or blaming her for her horrific death because she wasn't pretty enough or interesting enough to keep Rhaegar's attention instead of acknowledging that Rhaegar was the kind of Targaryen mad where he would have essentially read the Bible and been convinced that he himself was Jesus. People support his character because they think that his interpretation of prophecy just happens to be true (which I don't, not in the way that a lot of people do at least), ergo Elia was a necessary sacrifice in Rhaegar's quest to save the world. However, from Elia's perspective, she was with a religious zealot who was ready to abandon her the minute he realized she couldn't give him what he wanted, she was left so her husband could abduct a teenager (which I don't think Lyanna could even consent to based on A. being a teenager, B. obviously not understanding the political climate in Westeros enough to understand that she was putting her family in mortal danger, which she clearly wouldn't have done if she did know, and C. why in tf would she take off with Rhaegar and marry him when she was leaving Robert and her engagement specifically because he was a cheater anyways). The notion that Elia would have supported that or agreed to that arrangement by choice is a theory I hear repeated constantly and is completely insane, but once again makes her complicit and pushes her own violent rape and murder back on her instead of on Rhaegar and Aerys and the Lannisters where it belongs. And I can't imagine there being zero blowback in the story for that.

[@fifimaqois2882]

@@HillsAliveYT you are preaching to the choir here question do you think dany or even Jon would fight ageon to the throne I don't see Jon's story was anything to do with king landing but dany I worry about her I think ageon would be welcome he even says he can't wait to see her. I go by the theory that he would be king before dany even makes it to King's Landing and dany would not know how to handle it.

[@cassiuscoleman4624]

From the very first page I read about faegon I knew he was legit. George repeatedly stated that the baby's head was smashed in and how it was unrecognizable. This to suggest masking him or hiding him behind a shroud until the moment was right. And for Varys to be involved? I don't think he would waste his time creating a false Targaryen for the sake of the realm if there existed the tiniest possibility he could be found out. And of course George wouldn't be spending such an inordinate amount of page space for such a ruse. He would of course go out of his way to get us to think Aegon is a fake. To lessen the chance readers would jump ship from Dany over to aegon. And besides as you said; there are a good many people floating around this story pretending to be someone they're not.

[@vibiul]

I believe that Aegon, regardless of his legitimacy or lack of legitimacy, is the king that Westeros needs to achieve peace. And his death, which is likely to happen, will be a tragic point in the books. He's just a boy who believes he needs to be king.

[@616thedevil]

i don't think we should take everything quaith says at face value. She is clearly priming dany to destroy young grif and potentially jon snow and i find it hard to believe she is doing this out of a legitimate pursuit of the truth and doesn't have her own agenda

[@chrisk_nfl4120]

Great analysis and I actually agree The main issue I have is the fact the Golden Company fights for him, tho they're taking the word of Varys and Illyrio to be true, so that's never a good thing. Not to mention they could just be sick of the whole "Blackfyre supremacy" when they're basically all dead, and no female Blackfyre has come to fight for Westeros since Maelys

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah, the Golden Company seems to be the big sticking point for a lot of people, I feel like it's the most referenced reason I see as to why people presume Aegon is a Blackfyre, but I agree with you that it would honestly be weird if this sellsword company was still loyal to the idea of the Blackfyres despite the fact that they seem to be an extinct bloodline.

[@chrisk_nfl4120]

@@HillsAliveYT I think it's likely they are Westerosi and they see a Westerosi prince as their best chance to get back home. I don't think it's as concrete a reason for why Aegon's a Blackfyre tho

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@chrisk_nfl4120 Yeah agreed, like obviously they were founded by a Blackfyre but supporting the Blackfyres has literally never worked out for them and there appears to be none left, and supporting a Targaryen prince when Westeros is already in a chaotic state and is essentially ripe for the taking may be the best opportunity for most of these exiles to actually get home that they've ever had.

[@risky_busine55]

This is quickly becoming my favourite asoiaf KZbin channel

[@tieranalexander4475]

My imagined happy ending to the series (Impossible) involves Aegon becoming King before Jon and Dany can really push any claim or heritage. He does exactly what Dany wants to do and breaks the wheel. Cares for the small folk and fixes the system. Dany arrives and her goals are accomplished. Aegon joins Jon in defeating the Long Night. Aegon does what they both want to do but is revealed as a fake. They decide they don't care because doing right by the people is more important than having the rightful heir. All three have shown a heart for the small folk and fixing the system that feeds the powerful. For protecting the innocent. In a good world, they all decide that name doesn't matter just the end result that they all wanted to see be realized. Dany goes back to Essos to end slavery (Where her heart actually is even if she hasn't realized it) and Jon rules the North or whatever. Aegon sits the throne and everyone actually learns to get along. The whole idea of Game of Thrones is that power and greed cause suffering. They play their meaningless game instead of uniting and realistically they'll be stomped by the Others because of it. Choosing peace is the only way to actually break the wheel and realizing there is more important shit than blood claim. Actual societal growth with that ending. It's worth noting that GRRM is very anti-war so maybe? Like war being meaningless is the prevailing theme. I do expect that Dany will kill Aegon and Barristan will kill her when she's about to do some genocide to complete his arc since he's struggled to understand Jaime the entire story. (Theoretically Jorah works too but he's boring). Jon will get the thrown with the other two claimants dead and yay I guess? Just feels so chalky. Choosing peace is much more interesting and actually leaves us with Westeros not ending up Stagnant.

[@fuckoffgoogle1657]

I’m 100% with you. The only thing different is that Barristan is about to die in the book. He was gearing up for his last charge into battle when we left him. I’d rather we just skip the dragon genocide tbh because it doesn’t fit with anything else going on in the story. It just doesn’t go here in the timeline of shit going on in the story. 3 dragon riders rising makes more sense. Euron has dragon binder so he will get one, the other is between jon and Aegon either way can get us to the end I guess. I just really hate the ending of season 8 and think George should just burn that entire outline

[@leannepowell8709]

Just stumbled across this and now I'm wondering how I never considered Griff actually being Aegon before! I mean I have thought about him being the 3rd head of the dragon.... Great video that got me thinking.

[@eoghanmolloy4278]

While I can’t actually remember the contents, I once read a thread about how aegons blackfyre evidence better suits Daenerys

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah I'm ambivalent on the theories that Dany is not a Targaryen, however, I do think that people tend to forget that the Targaryens weren't the only dragonlords in the world.

[@MattiavonSigmund]

I concour! Lovely, well made video, and most imporantly, your voice sounds terribly sweet! 💕

[@HillsAliveYT]

Thank you so much! 💜

[@alex52043]

Getting your butt kicked isn't really "valuing peace". Nymeria was forced to flee after several wars and that's really all there is to it.

[@permiebird937]

For fAegon to be real, then Varys would have needed to, in the middle of the sacking of kings landing, find a baby that passes as Targaryan, take that baby up to the red keep, and convince Elia Martell to hand over her child to him, because he 100% knew that Elia and her children would be killed? Elia has every expectation that she would be ransomed, because she is a valuable hostage. If the Starks had taken KL, she would have been ransomed, and perhaps her children would have been sent to a chaste order, maesters, septens, or nights watch. The better evidence is fAegon is Illyrio Mopatus's son by his Blackfyre wife.

[@hyypio764]

I do believe that the real Aegon died, but I don't think it's at all impossible for Varys to have swapped the babies. He could have simple gone to Elia after the Battle of the Trident. Elia was Aerys' hostage at the time and had no real power of her own. Varys could have simply pitched the idea of the rebels coming down on King's Landing and him offering to give Aegon extra protection. Robert had just killed Rhaegar and every Targaryen pretender would be a threat to him if he gained the crown, so it's very reasonable for Elia to fear for her children in this situation.

[@permiebird937]

@@hyypio764 Would you give your baby to a guy like Varys? Varys is largely mistrusted and almost universally treated with suspicion. It's unlikely that Elia would have trusted Varys, because we know Doran had been making plots in a competition against Varys/Illiryio for a long time. I'm sure Doran would have warned her about them. Would Cersie have given Tommen to Varys if she was concerned about being killed? She was furious at Tyrion for getting Tommen safely out of the city before the battle of the blackwater. Cersie would have murdered Tommen herself before giving him to Varys. Yes, Cersie is devolving into madness, but my point is people rarely hand their babies over to people they don't trust. If Varys was at the red keep, during the sack, and he came to Elia with a random baby, and said "let's swap because you and your children will be killed," Elia would have demanded Varys take her and her children out into the tunnels, so they could escape. If Elia cared for her children she would not say "sure let's swap babies, and I'll just wait for the mountain to come kill me and my daughter." That doesn't track. If Varys had come to help Elia, she would have survived the sack hiding in a secret tunnel, but Elia was a hostage left in her room. Varys spending the sack saving his own skin, instead of saving Elia and her kids, was far more likely. Elia and her children dying in the sack was an opportunity for Varys. Now they had the perfect way to put fAegon on the throne.

[@hyypio764]

@@permiebird937 She doesn't need to trust Varys, she only needs to be desperate enough to view her childrens' lives to be forfeit after hearing that the rebels won at the Trident. Elia is in no position to demand Varys do anything. Varys can simply give her the ultimatum: give me Aegon or don't give me Aegon. If Elia is convinced that the rebels will just come and kill them all, it's very reasonable for her to gamble on the chance that her son might still survive with Varys.

[@permiebird937]

@@hyypio764 Elia was a hostage of the mad king, but she had no reason to expect she would be killed, Elia was a princess of Dorne in her own right. As a highborn woman she had every reason to believe she would survive the war. Not all outcomes would be great, but she would be kept alive. There is no reason to expect her or her children would be killed. Why do I think that, because Elia was valuable because of her status, and could be useful to the new king Robert. Elia could be retained at court to insure her family's obedience, she could be married off to someone for political reasons, she could be forced to join the faith to insure she becomes celibate in future, or ransomed back to her family. Elia was worth a lot of money and political leverage alive. The only person who would have ignored that value to kill her would be someone who has plenty of his own gold, namely Tywin. In ASOIAF when characters who are not Lannisters talk about Elia's death, most of them seem to think the mountain's actions were extreme, inappropriate, and outrageous, was because they were. Killing Elia was as much a break with customs as the Red Wedding was. The children of these highborn women would often end up stuck at court once they are old enough to be pages,or fostered out, or eventually given to celibate orders, like maesters, faith, or nights watch. This is a world where ransoming people is an acceptable way to deal with your defeated enemies, and make a lot of money. You said Varys swapped the babies, installing Flea Bottom Aegon, and saved the real Aegon, but then the real Aegon died? What would be the point of Varys doing that? How did the real Aegon die, if not from being smashed against a wall? Then who is young Griff? If the real Aegon is dead, whether or not the mountain killed him or he died later, we still have another baby that becomes young Griff, where did that baby come from? Robert won the crown by conquest, and the only Targ who could have opposed Robert's claim was 8 year old Visarys. Robert was in good shape on holding the throne after he won it. Visarys wasn't a threat, and Rhagar's kids were not a threat. Robert would be good for at least a decade before any Targ survivor could cause problems. Varys knew that Elia was a valuable hostage, but he didn't bother to save her, because Elias death had more advantages for his plan. Aegon's death gave him opportunities for his future fAegon plan.

[@sophiaemporopulo9622]

These are some great points but still I'm really convinced that he's Illyrio's son. I don't see any other reason why Illyrio would insert himself into Westerosi polytics and put so much effort into making this kid king. Besides, Tyrion asked Illyrio about his motivations in ADWD and he claimed it was not about money but "the debts of affection"

[@jerimeyperry3282]

Female line of blackfyre. The golden company wouldn't break a contract to put a Targaryen on the iron throne. Bittersteels golden skull marching under a Targaryen banner I think not. Beneath the gold, the Bitter steel. "Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood. I say no more."

[@billvolk4236]

Young Griff isn't the mummer's dragon because he's harmless, but because he's held up by a mummer (Varys.)

[@conor698]

I like this take and I"m glad you made this video with your perspective. I think you make a great case although principally I don't really agree. While I think that Young Griff is in fact fAegon / a Blackfyre, I think whether he is a Blackfyre is irrelevant to his perception in the oncoming conflict to the masses. Tyrion understanding him to potentially fake (and most likely correct) will poison Dany's view of him and see him as a false dragon. The public and I believe Young Griff himself will see him as legitimate and Dany's "slayer of lies" will be more for the reader/audience and less the common folk. They will see him as a liberator to the tyranny of the Lannisters and a bringer of peace. Dany, whose thunder will be stolen, her claim delegitimized (as is Jon's) in the eyes of the public, will be the bringer of destruction and blood and fire--the history books will not remember fAegon as fake and that's what's important.

[@conor698]

And you are totally right in that it's possible that GRRM will leave his real identity a mystery. It's only important to what the people within the story believe. Our interpretations are all up for grabs and the context clues for or against only fuel our theories and beliefs, but the actions of Dany and Jon and Aegon are based on what they themselves and what the public think.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah I agree, and I think that GRRM will leave it hanging and leave it up to the reader as to whether or not he was legit, given what I think is going to go down I think there is a lot more dramatic tension in the question of whether or not Dany was right and she deposed "the lie" or if she usurped the throne from a good king and a true Targaryen heir. And I don't expect that anything I say will change many minds, I've seen all of the Blackfyre evidence too and I totally presumed that Aegon must be a Blackfyre as well, I just sort of started reconsidering that notion because of other fans who suggested he might be real and when I looked at all of the character development and themes of the series and the lore, it actually hugely made sense to me that he could be real, and given how focused GRRM is on internal logic it was just hard for me to grasp the notion that the Targaryen children in King's Landing wouldn't have one person out there who was willing and capable to get the heir to safety when Dany and Jon were both rescued by people who were either lacking in power or political savvy.

[@ironforged2329]

Welp, here's my thoughts. Aegon or Faegon, I don't think GRRM will confirm. He felt us clues and hints and stuff so we will have to subjectively interpret his identity. But one thing is Clear, Aegon will Conquer and put down Cersie Lannister along with the help of Arianne Martel. The Thing is, we know Cersie will use Wild Fire for her fight, so that must be when she'll try to burn the Whole Kingslanding down, then Jaime will slay her completing his Character Arc and fulfilling the Valonqar prophecy. Then, Aegon, upon Rulling, maybe Honors Jaime and make his Actions known unlike what Ned did. Then, Dany will come and claim the Throne, then Dany will Slay Aegon and Varys claiming that Aegon was a Fake Dragon. Then Real or Fake, Most people will Hate Dany for what she did. And Stuff will happen. For me, Aegon was actually the Real Aegon and the Prophecies lead Dany to believe that she was not, like how all of the prophecies are misinterpreted. And like how GRRM incepted in our minds that Aegon was Fake. The Twist I think, wasn't that Aegon was actually Fake, it was that it was true all along. This misinterpreted Prophecy will cost Dany her life like how the rest of the Targaryens fate with their Dragon Dreams, said by Measter Aemon.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah I partially agree with you. I definitely think Aegon's true parentage will be left a mystery, but I do think it IS supposed to be a mystery, and most people act as if it's already decided that he's a Blackfyre. I think Cersei might try to burn King's Landing, but I think there's no way that Dany isn't the one who actually does it, and Aegon will likely be one of the casualties of that. Definitely agree that Dany's obsession with the prophecy will at least partially be her downfall given that literally every character who has become obsessed with prophecy has greatly suffered for that obsession, and I also agree that GRRM wanted everyone to believe Aegon was a fake when he was actually the real deal.

[@ironforged2329]

@@HillsAliveYT I have been thinking. Jon Snow is Azor Ahai, the LightBringer itself. Forgred by Rhaegar Targaryen on Water, Lion and his Love. First, He thought he was Azor Ahai, then he died on the Trident River (Water) Second, he thought Aegon(his son) is Azor Ahai, and the died on the hands of the Mountain under the Command of Tywin (The Lion). Third, he thought it was his Son with Lyanna, the son of Ice and Fire, and Lyanna died (Nissa Nissa) and Jon Snow lived (The Sword in the Darkness). So if Jon Snow was the True Azor Ahai, that would mean that Rhaegar must die on the Water and Aegon must die on the Lion for Jon Snow to be forged in Lyanna. That means that the True Aegon is Dead if Jon Snow is Azor Ahai. That means that Jon Snow as Azor Ahai and True Aegon is Alive can't be both true at the same time.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@ironforged2329 LOL well coincidentally I'm quite dubious on the idea that Jon is Azor Ahai anyway, so while your theory is interesting it doesn't necessarily make me feel like Aegon isn't Aegon.

[@ironforged2329]

@@HillsAliveYT damn. So who do you think Azor Ahai is?

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@ironforged2329 Well I don't know, but I think that misinterpreted prophecies are such a strong theme in the series that Azor Ahai is definitely NOT Stannis, Dany, Jon, Aegon, or any other lost Targaryen. Or I'm partial to the dark Azor Ahai theory, i.e. he's a prophesied hero to a lot of R'hllor worshipers and their perception of good and evil is a little out of whack, so Azor could be Dany but that would also make TPTWP a villain instead of a hero.

[@aidanrogers4438]

While I do see and understand the (F)Aegon is a Blackfyre theory, and have been partial to it too, I also understand all these points about why he is a Targaryen. It would actually make for a better story if he was, so his eventually conflict with Dany is made greater, not being seen as a Targaryen vs Blackfyre pretender again (though Aegon doesn’t realise it), but as another Targaryen civil war, with Dany and dragons on one side and Aegon on the other, with all the qualities that Varys and Connington spoke about, and perhaps even the love of the people that Dany would sp desperately crave. Also, one thing about Aegon being a fake is that having Connington raise him would be a risk, he was friends with Rhaegar, spent time in the Red Keep and was Hand for a time. He would have known what the other Targaryens looked like, what Elia and Rhaenys looked like, as well as her uncle, Prince Lewyn Martell. Connington might have started to suspect something with Varys and Illyrio as Aegon grew up and did not at least begin to resemble one side of his family. We don’t get a very detailed description of Aegon, from Connington’s PoV, but I would think had he begun to even question Aegon’s parentage, it would have come up or have turned into doubt on his part.

[@rainy7106]

Watching this after HOT D came out and have an interesting point to make about the “Cloth Dragon” prophecy referenced around 9:30 Helaena Targaryen references “dragons of thread” or something akin to that in the Driftmark episode. Some fans have interpreted that to be her speaking of a dream prophecizing the Dance of the Dragons, with the Dragons of thread being the banners created by the vying Targaryen heirs. Likewise, a cloth dragon may represent the banner Aegon comes under vs the banner that Dany does. This can work whether Aegon is actually a blackfyre (then the brotherhood without banners getting a banner once again with Aegon, making him their dragon of cloth to take back their rightful lands). Or if he’s actually a trueborn Targ and simply fights Dany under a different Targaryen banner.

[@ubaldoarias5653]

I hope he is Aegon and makes a greater purpose in the plot, that means much more distance from the finale of the show

[@jonstark153]

Young griff being son of elia and rhaegar doesn't fit the timeline!!!!

[@josharguello4313]

I think you are overlooking the internal turmoil of House Martell. They are clearly just as fragmented and power hungry as any other house. Look at Arianne, she was wling to crown Myrcella and pit her against her own brother, unleash a war that would cost thousands of lives for both sides. Arianne's desire to pit Myrcella against Tommen reflects her own envy, insecurity and resentment of Quentyn. There are countless moments where Arianne believes that Quentyn will steal her birthright. And even after Arianne finds out Doran's plans, she still seems bothered by the idea that Quentyn could be king, while she would just be a princess. The Sand Snakes are no better. They too wanr to unleash war to avenge their family, not much different than the motivations of Viserys and Dany at the beginning. The Sand Snakes even go to the extent of plotting to kill Tommen, an innocent boy who is not to blame for the atrocities commited by his grandfather. And then there's Doran and Mellario who are actually separated over Doran's decision to foster Quentyn with the Yronwood's. There's plenty to admire about Dornish society, but the Martells are just as power hungry, vengeful as everyone else. I don't think that they are any better or any worse than the Targaryens.

[@a-zfan3229]

Seeing how Arianne’s story is in course to intersect with Aegon, the Dornish plot will inevitably come into his storyline

[@sakurayuki8391]

Personally I believe Young Griff is not the real Aegon. Maybe I don't want to believe that Elia saved her one child and left the other to die. She also fought the Mountain to protect the baby. I believe what matters is that young Griff thinks he is Aegon, he is not pretending, and noone can prove that he isn't.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Oh well that's also interesting, because Elia "saving one child" likely wasn't her thought, i.e. killing her children was a huge transgression that never would have happened in normal circumstances. And since Aegon would have been the heir, he would have made a great hostage, he's much more valuable to have than Rhaenys, so if she had the opportunity to switch him out for a fake then that would prevent anyone from using his as leverage. It's still entirely possible that Griff is fake, but the likelihood that Elia would have been presented with an opportunity like this and would have sincerely thought that she and her very young children were going to be extremely violently killed if Robert's forces took the city is almost zero, what Tywin and his men did was outrageous and criminal even in times of war.

[@gerganakoleva4137]

You cannot blame her like that. If I am in such a situation to be able to save only the one (after all babies are easier to switch, look at John and Gilly's baby) I would. It does not mean she did not care for her daughter the same way as for her son, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Fighting for the live of the other baby is no proof - I would, even if it is not my own, if some savage wants to go smashing babies heads.

[@LeonardoHernandez-eg5dv]

Why would the Golden Compoany fight for a Targaryen though? I know it makes sense thematically, but logically, I think Varys being a Blackfyre as well as Aegon, makes sense. Because, I mean, why would Varys risk everything to put that specific kid on the throne? For power? Because it clearly isn't for the sake of the realm since the realm was doing okay with Kevan and Tommen.

[@LeonardoHernandez-eg5dv]

nevermind i just saw the replies you've already answered these questions lol, good video

[@LeonardoHernandez-eg5dv]

I think the main flaw with the theory is just varys. that's it. If he's actually just a rando from Essos, why does he care so much about putting Aegon on the throne. I get that maybe Varys= Blackfyre, and Aegon=Targaryen, and they're bloodrelated, but is that actually enough to make Varys go full in on putting him on the throne? If so, why would he try to fucking poison Daenerys, is Aegon that good of a king that thousands and her own blood just NEED to die in order to get him on the throne? Varys is a very complex character, and him being fAegon's uncle kinda makes more sense, because all his plots and schemings actually have a purpose, because Varys doesn't seem a Littlefinger-type like character to just make chaos in order to get on top

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@LeonardoHernandez-eg5dv I don't think he's making chaos in order to get on top, and I think he ultimately wants to upset the status quo enough that it can actually change things on a permanent basis. I mean, plenty of people who aren't blood-related to someone else do a lot to advance that person's power and position in Westerosi society if it will also benefit them, in fact I think the majority of older people who are raising children to become powerful in a way that benefits them even though those children are not related to them in ASOIAF, at this point it's actually rarer for someone's blood kin to be raising them for a position of leadership. I also think it's probably clear to anyone with a pulse that House Lannister is going down, so the fact that Tommen and Kevan were doing okay for like three weeks doesn't make much of a difference. All of Tywin's children were always going to be a toxic influence on the throne, so killing Kevan just keeps them weak enough that Aegon can take over easily. Also, the Kevan thing is very interesting. Someone else in the comments pointed out something that I hadn't thought of but makes total sense, which is, if Aegon is a fake then why would Varys tell Kevan that he's really Aegon Targaryen right before he dies? I mean it's not 100% confirmation, but it's odd that he would lie to someone that he knows he's about to kill.

[@lxfj2128]

If u were reading properly u would realise the golden company were on their way to side with Daenerys until aegon speech swayed them

[@gracefasiku6885]

Exactly? The Golden company was founded by Blackfyres

[@ItsAweeb]

Targaryen visions tend to be also just.. misunderstood, so its entirely possible or highly likely that the cloth dragon just means harmless and not fake

[@AnarchoCatBoyEthan]

i love this channel so much, i have enjoyed all of your videos. Thanks! I have no thoughts on Faegon, I again need to reread the books to really cement how i feel about him. Even if he’s really he’ll always be Faegon to me tho cause I think that’s a hilarious name.

[@thehouseofdragon5226]

I like it. Honestly, I could never understand why so many people put Aegon VI as fake. Jon being the hero who helped save the world in the battle for Dawn, being the ice part of the song . Daenerys being seen as a crazy tyrannical or wild conqueror, but who also helped in the fight against others, being Azora Ahai. And who is Aegon? We don’t even know if he’s true or not, he’ll probably go down in Westeros’s history as a perfect king. I have something to add to this, Jon being forgotten about history, his right to Winterfeel, for me he is Ned and Ashara, being a morning sword that will fight against the others, and Daenerys the daughter of the Storm being Azora Ahai, who if the world fails with she, she it will fail in the battle against others. And it would be funny if Daenerys was actually the daugre of Rhaegar and Lyanna, that is to say a bastard, the one who receives so many the titles, is a bastard from a relationship that almost led to the end the Targaryen reign. What do you think ? Do you intend to make a video about N + A = J ? so Why Jon Is a Targaryen.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I don't get why everyone presumes he's a fake either, it seems to rest mostly on the notion that because he's using the Golden Company, he's a Blackfyre, but it seems like there is a lot more subtext and just common sense indications that he is actually Aegon Targaryen. And while I do enjoy aspects of the Ned and Ashara theory, I think that Jon is almost certainly the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna, Game of Thrones obviously fudged with a lot of ASOIAF canon but I don't see them literally including that revelation if it weren't in the books as well. And I like the symmetry of it with Aegon, there's a lot of irony of Daenerys being obsessed with having a family and having three dragon riders, and having the last two Targaryens besides her completely choosing House Martell and House Stark over House Targaryen even though Dany thinks that nothing is more important than being a Targaryen.

[@sycoutuber92]

@@HillsAliveYT there is a lot more to the Faegon theory than the golden company. Illirio and Varys are both hinted at being blackfyre's and there are clues pointing towards Aegon actually being Illiarios son. Furthermore, there is the "mummers dragon" vision that Dany has which is literally telling us that there will be a false Targaryen, or atleast that the mummer (varys) is controlling this dragon (Aegon) (which can also be proof that he is a real Targaryen who is simply being controlled by Varys and Illirio, but this is less likely in my eyes).

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@sycoutuber92 Yes I'm aware of all of that already, but the Golden Company point is the one that I personally see made the most often.

[@sycoutuber92]

@@HillsAliveYT I have the opposite experience, where the visions from Quath are the biggest evidence

[@ruairiburnett788]

Nymeria wasn’t exactly all about peace, like the second she showed up in Dorne she allied with House Martel to conqueror no less than 6 other Dornish kingdoms

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yes she did do that, but to me the subtext seems to pretty clearly indicate that she did that as a quid pro quo so that the Rhoynar could stay in Dorne, not because she had some personal desire to conquer the rest of Dorne. I mean the whole setting her ships on fire so that no one would leave does not make me think that her people wanted to join the wars in Dorne or that Mors Martell had a ton of confidence in their support, and agreeing to fight someone else's war in order to keep your people alive seems to be pretty distinct from conquering a continent because you can and you want to.

[@ruairiburnett788]

@@HillsAliveYT Fair enough, but I mean was conquering all of Donre really necessary. At a certain point the other Dornish kingdoms would have had to back down.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@ruairiburnett788 Well again, it's just my interpretation of the subtext but I never got the impression that conquering Dorne was a goal she ever wanted, I assumed that she was doing it in exchange for Mors Martell letting all the Rhoynar stay.

[@ruairiburnett788]

Yeah I guess that makes sense, the other kings probably should’ve learnt to accept her after the first few wars lol

[@ArthurVIIJuliusPendragon]

Really good analysis and reasoned arguments, certainly makes me question my position on the subject

[@HillsAliveYT]

Thank you!

[@bcruzan120]

I could definitely see Griff actually being the elder Aegon. What you’re saying makes sense to me. I’ve considered that the thing about the dragon needing to have three heads could mean that either Griff or Tyrion are actually Targaryens. But I think it’s more likely to be Griff.

[@heiligebimbam3073]

Thank you, I thought I was the only one believing in Egon Targaryen. In fact I want young Griff to be the real Aegon.

[@sam3drinks]

Honestly love this video, glad someone is theorizing for the other possible outcomes as well, not just the ones we’ve all heard before. Personally I’m with you, Faegon being Aegon would be SOOOOOO much more interesting

[@HillsAliveYT]

Thanks! And yeah, while I think there is actually a ton of evidence to back it up I largely just love Aegon being real because it's a way more fascinating and more logical story to me.

[@Aug__]

This was a really informative video thank you so much.

[@edwardsimson3771]

Hey I just want to say I really like your videos

[@seastar4194]

The show blended Jon Snow and Young Griff. I think that Young Griff is Aegon (Lyanna and Rheghar's son born at the TOJ). And Jon Snow is the child of Ashara Dayne. Not sure if Ned is the father or not.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I'm iffy on where all of the babies landed when the game of musical chairs ended, but given how many babies have been swapped throughout the story I do think it's very likely that Young Griff is the child of Rhaegar Targaryen at the very least.

[@otterlover3399]

I think that makes sense because Ned thinks of Jon as his own son in his private pov chapters and thinks about Ashara while he never thinks about Jon's supposed commoner mother. Also Catelyn says that when she first married Ned people in Winterfell were gossiping about Ashara Dayne. When she asked Ned who Ashara was, Ned tells her to never ask about Jon again. Seeing that really just confirmed it for me. In my mind Jon is a Dayne/Stark who will wield the sword Dawn. Young Griff is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, who will fulfill the prophecy Rhaegar was obsessed with. Daenerys is a Targaryen or a dragonseed and the mummer's dragon is her, not Faegon, because at the time she heard that she was chaining up her dragons and accepting terrible peace terms from the Harpy.

[@seastar4194]

@@otterlover3399 Ohh!!! never thought of Dany as the mummers dragon. Great catch.

[@huxley1559]

Love your work but the dichotomy is a bit farfetched imo. House Martell really clearly is largely consumed with vengeance while Daenerys (and other Targaryens for that matter) still has genuine kindness in her.

[@guzkus1]

It's a historical dichotomy: the Valyrians attacked the Rhoynar who would survive in the Martell line. Now the Martells are vengeful of the Lannisters and will use the Targaryens to take power once again.

[@hunterfehnel2017]

Wow, good take, thanks for the video!

[@BlackstreetBoys2Men]

I can here because of Kevin Pendragon’s description of this channel, I saw what I thought was click baity hottake ASOIAF vids but this isn’t that and I’m pleasantly surprised. Liked and Subscribed

[@nicholasdamasceno3436]

There's no other reason to believe that Young Griff is a Targaryen (even though it could be interesting, but not the best choice). Why is Brynden Rivers still alive? During his entire rule as a targaryen counselor he faced many Blackfyre Rebelions and had to implant many spies across de continent just to make sure the realm was "safe". It would be completely epic to see another war between blackfyres and targaryens with Faegon as a charismatic leader and Dany seen as a usurper with dragons and unsulies along with her. The Three-eyed Crow/Bran will have a fundamental role and the story already have a perfect scenario. Illyrio Mopatis being the father of Faegon is a possbility since the reason he took care of Dany was because she reminded her of his dead wife (possibly a blackfyre grandaughter of Daemon I) and his also very close to Varys. And also much is said about the origin of Quaithe as Shiera Seastar and her plot with The Three-eyed Crow to help Dany to sit on the Iron Throne as queen. So just imagine the perfect chaos that the next books will bring, a war in Old Town, a war between spy commanders (Brynden and Varys), a war in Meereen, a war in the North. Everything signs for a "Sixth Blackfyre Rebelion" with a hole destruction scenario.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Well I think GRRM has laid groundwork for both, I agree that there is subtext indicating Griff could be a Blackfyre but I also think that there is subtext indicating he is a Targaryen, and for me personally the narrative of Dany unseating a true Targaryen heir is just a more interesting story than a Blackfyre. There would be no dramatic tension or moral quandary when it comes to Dany's decision to destroy him, and I feel like her quest for the throne isn't going to be that easy or excusable in the minds of fans. But no one has to agree with me, I just wanted to offer up another theory!

[@dagnirglaurunga1620]

I like this theory but I also like the theory that Jon is really actually Ned's son.

[@SiimKoger]

Love those in-debt non-mainstream SOIAF videos! Randomly found your channel and am just binging.

[@kyrastartt2053]

cool video. i liked it alot. my only issue is what was illyrio's whole pan? what was the purpose of separating the three siblings from each other without telling them of each other's existence?

[@HillsAliveYT]

Wait who do you mean, are you talking about Jon, Dany, and Young Griff? Or Rhaegar's kids, i.e. Griff, Rhaenys, and Jon?

[@bichiAllen]

I do believe he is a real Targaryen, and I believe that he will be a turning point for Dany's character arc, as in, it'll show how far she is willing to go to get the throne she believes is her right when she finds someone with a stronger claim. EDIT: Wanted to add, now that I've remembered. In Danny's vision of Aegon's birth, Rhaegar is holding him a d then he look straight into Danny's eyes and says there is one missing, the dragon has 3 heads. I believe this to be another sign pointing at Aegon being really Aegon and the missing head of the dragon being Jon

[@alf7797]

I think Aegon is Lyanna and Rhaegar 's son and john is ned and ashara's (there is absolutely no symbolism in the books equating jon to dragons, he is a stark through and through but thats a topic for another time). Plus, the fact that the show cut out Aegon and gave that name to jon instead further reminds us how little the show writers actually understood of the story and the way George writes. I think its unlikely that Rhaegar and Ellia's child survived and it just makes way more sense for Aegon to be the offspring of R+L. Personally I feel that the whole R+L=J thing is glorified fan fiction that came out of the show and is not based in the books at all but people are just running with it. As far as I'm concerned the show gave us nothing and the true story is in the books only. the GOT show is just a spin off/fan fic in the end. obviously just my opinion.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I don't hate the idea of Jon being Ned and Ashara's, but I feel like Jon's obsession with not wanting to be Ned's bastard is going to have some sort of darkly ironic "be careful what you wish for" element to it, which makes sense in relation to him and R+L. I think Rhaegar almost certainly married Lyanna, but I think Jon's realization that he is the trueborn son of a man whose shitty choices nearly destroyed House Stark will make him wish he could truly be Ned's bastard. I also agree that Jon is a Stark through and through, but I think that's kind of the point. A lot of the characters behave in awful ways and excuse it because they're a Targaryen or a Lannister, and I think that characters like Jon are going to exemplify that it's not as if these people have some inborn nature that they can't help, it's about who they choose to be. Jon is of course half Stark anyway, but he's the most Stark-ish of the Stark children simply because that's what he wants to be.

[@alf7797]

@@HillsAliveYT Thats an interesting point about it being darkly ironic. I feel like that can still apply to the N+A=J theory because it would essentially mean that Jon is a true stark and his other siblings are the bastards- that would seriously shake up house stark not to mention that fact that Jon cares deeply for his siblings and would never wish anything bad to happen to them. I also think its important how often people compare Jon to Ned and never once do people think of Lyanna when they see him (not even Ned in truth). Meanwhile other characters like Aryia do actively remind Ned of Lyanna. I feel like George's writing is too specific for that not to be important. Also why would he drop that whole "shy wolf and maid with the laughing purple eyes" story and all the rumors about ned and ashara if their relationship wasn't significant. When Ned is asked by Catlyn about Ashara, Ned gets so angry and says "never ask me about Jon" and not once is there an indication he is thinking about Lyanna in that scene, he's angry because he was asked about Ashara in relation to Jon (his true love and mother to his son)... Anyway, it will definitely be interesting to see how it all turns out in the end. I hope we get the books eventually!

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@alf7797 Yeah, I don't hate the idea of Ned and Ashara, but I've become sold enough on the idea that Ashara and Howland are married/Ashara is Jojen and Meera's mom that it's hard for me to really stick to the possibility of Ned and Ashara being realistic. LOL but agreed, fingers crossed we actually get the books and get a definitive answer either way!

[@alf7797]

@@HillsAliveYT interesting, I'm not sold on the idea that howland and Ashara are married. I dont see where thats really implied in any of the books, but if you have any references/videos I'd be happy to check it out. I'm pretty convinced of N+A=J but I'm interested in other theories too!

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@alf7797 I know InDeepGeek has discussed the theory at length, but one of the on point but hilarious hints in the books is simply that Jojen and Meera have heard the story about Ashara at Harrenhal a thousand times while Bran has never heard it before in his life, and if Howland has told his children detailed stories about this super attractive woman he met at Harrenhal who isn't their mom then that would be really creepy and weird.

[@cachorrovadio]

You're my favorite commentator of GoT!

[@saltlakeatrocity9771]

I had long believed Aegon to be fake, but upon seeing your rational about the more interesting story-which I cannot disagree with-I'm now more tempted to lean towards Martin keeping it ambiguous or entirely irrelevant to his narrative within the overall story.

[@JB.27_]

Yes, I’ve always believed he was Aegon. Every fAegon theory just comes up short in my opinion. The only thing I have trouble wrapping my head around is why Varys and Illyrio backed Viserys’ claim when they had a better card up their sleeve. What was their plan? Crown Viserys, with Aegon as heir and then dispose of Viserys? Wouldn’t that send the realm into even more chaos? I suppose they would’ve been able to create two alliances through marriage, but if Viserys did marry, say Arianna, and they married fAegon to Margery (plan would’ve been in place pre-Joff crowning anyway) would Dorne still back the crown? I don’t know, lots of loose ends for a conspiracy with years and years of planning.. Either way it goes down, I just can’t wait to read it.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I think their plan was to sideline Viserys permanently with the Dothraki. Like... a very politically powerful and savvy person setting up Viserys to get his "army to win back the crown" when that army has never crossed the sea in their cultural history seems like a very obvious plan to ensure that Viserys would never make it to Westeros no matter what, they just had no idea that Dany would become powerful enough that she will likely convince them to do just that.

[@JB.27_]

@@HillsAliveYT but why even go through all that? Why not just kill him and get him out of the way to make Aegon the true heir? Varys is not averse to killing to achieve his goals, it just doesn’t add up to me. I think that they did plan to use the Dothraki, as they would’ve needed an army. They would have had to contend with the North, the Westerlands, The Vale, The Riverlands and the Stormlands... against just Dorne, and maybe the Reach (who was notoriously pro-Targ). But that alliance would’ve been shaky as the Dornish and Reachman hate each other, so it’s not a great plan lol. It’s one of the few loose ends that George has left us.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@JB.27_ I mean, I feel like anyone who interacted with Viserys at all wouldn't have been particularly concerned about him, and I also think that Illyrio may have rightfully surmised that he wouldn't survive with the Dothraki anyway. I sort of get what you mean in the sense of why they'd even leave that thread hanging, but I just don't think that either of them would have been remotely concerned about Viserys ever being a legitimate threat to their plans and they would have likely seen his alliance with the Dothraki as enough insurance that he was gone and never coming back.

[@JB.27_]

@@HillsAliveYT I don’t know. It doesn’t make sense to me. George writes this very in depth plan and important people go out of their way to make sure it happens for them not to care if it plays out? In the first book Arya overhears Illyrio and Varys taking about the plan. I don’t think Illyrio travels to Kings Landing, pretends to be someone else just to have a conversation with Varys that doesn’t go anywhere...And Tyrion brings up Viserys to Illyrio and Illyrio doesn’t just throw it away. He seems like he was annoyed that it didn’t work out with Viserys. Maybe we’ll get more in TWOW.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@JB.27_ Yeah, perhaps they wanted Viserys and the Dothraki to do their dirty work then, I think that'd make a lot of sense too. I mean, after all, at the time of the story most people don't want a Targaryen back on the throne, and retaking it for House Targaryen would be dangerous and difficult. I can envision a world where they wanted Viserys to do that heavy lifting and maybe then dispose of him so Aegon could take the throne.

[@ryanelliott71698]

Actually I would disagree with you about the Targaryens making the 7 Kingdoms worse. They stopped the constant wars between the petty wars and gave the realm some semblance of peace, stopped the faith militant and the right to first night, lowered tax on wine, created the kingsroad, stopped the constant Ironborn raiding, etc... I don’t get the Dany hate? Viserys killed himself, not Dany. He gave up his right to live the moment he pricked Dany’s navel. There was nothing she coulda done. And as for the conquering, she did it to put an end to slavery. And only resulted to “not very nice” actions when she had no choice. You can’t rule by being just nice. If want to... ask Aenys the 1st how well that turned out.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Well you can disagree, but I think that the argument that Westeros was better off being ruled by foreign invaders who threatened their lives and murdered tens of thousands of them with weapons of mass destruction because they lowered taxes on wine is not one that many people would agree with. The Targaryens stopped the petty wars by essentially introducing nuclear war into Westeros, and even if you think the Targaryens improved Westeros, does that still give them the right to conquer and invade and essentially terrify people into submission with mass murder? I mean, apply that thought process to the real world, do you think that people with unstoppable power have the right to invade any country they choose just because they believe they can control them better than they can rule themselves? And I don't hate Dany, she's easily one of my favorite characters of all time, I just recognize that she has a lot of very serious flaws and is obviously going down a villainous path. Dany didn't do the conquering to end slavery, she did the conquering because she wanted to conquer Westeros and she needed a ton of resources she didn't have in order to do that. Dany is a really poor ruler in a lot of ways, but one of her most obvious flaws is that A. her relationship with slavery is more based on what benefits her most at the time (i.e. she's fine with slavery and slavers if it somehow benefits her, but if it doesn't she'll destroy them, and she wants to overthrow slavery when it suits her but doesn't have much in mind for any of the slaves who don't benefit her, like when she overthrew Astapor and took the Unsullied but left all of the "useless" slaves behind to a horrendous situation because she had no plan beyond destroying the city's infrastructure and taking what she needed from it while leaving the rest). Like I said, she's one of my favorite characters, I'd like to do a video series on her too at some point, but it's not hard to realize why a traumatized tween with a massive sense of entitlement and zero plans when it comes to how to rule beyond conquering is going to be bad for the world, and the result of her conquering has already been severely destructive for a lot of people, even the people she claims to be trying to save.

[@louisamay9615]

The targs didnt always rule peacefully. Remember the dance of dragons? Entire cities and countries were burned to the ground all because 2 siblings thought they deserved the throne.

[@louisamay9615]

Theres good reason why people are anti targaryen. I don't simply hate the targaryens, in fact i loved reading about them and I find their history incredibly fascinating. I just do not think they are the heroes. The big theme of ASOIAF is to show the devastating affects of war. Dragons are weapons of mass destruction. So how people think a family who uses weapons of mass destruction to get what they want because they consider themselves superior are the heroes of an anti war story boggles my mind.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@louisamay9615 Yes, agreed. Acknowledging that House Targaryen and Dany are largely villains in the story =/= hating them. Personally I think they are some of the most fascinating characters in the entire world of ice and fire, but I don't think they're meant to be remotely heroic.

[@louisamay9615]

@@HillsAliveYT 100% this. It comes off as me hating dany but i don't. She is the best written and most complex character I have ever read. Complex "villains" are my favorite characters. I only fight with dany fans because they think shes perfect and right in everything she does and refuse to see the dark path shes heading towards despite it being explicitly shown in the books. Even many hardcore and knowledgeable asoiaf fans refuse to see it.

[@seanp2871]

I see what you're saying, but I think that you seriously overestimate how much work it would have taken to hide Jon and underestimate how complicated it would be to hide Aegon. It's the subversion of Jon Snow's origins that help highlight why Jon's story makes sense. You pretty harshly insult Ned (which, fair) but keeping Jon a secret would have been easy for him. The only person who knew at that point was Howland, who lived in a hidden castle, so there was no one to contradict his claims. Jon looked like a Stark (which was a stroke of luck that helped, but he would have been able to tell that pretty soon after Jon was born), and it isn't strange for men to father bastards. There was no reason anyone would bat an eye at him doing that, and his notable honor provides the perfect excuse for why he would feel the need to 'make up' for his dishonor by raising Jon himself. The simplicity is why it makes so much sense. You don't have to protect someone if no one knows to look for them. Contrast that with your suggestion for how Aegon could have been saved and it makes no sense. It relies on Elia Martell electing to save one child and not the other (unlikely given that she is Dornish and therefore would have, as you mentioned, an egalitarian view of the importance of her children). Then, it requires the fake baby to be found and mutilated beyond recognition so that no one would notice the switch. This was also unlikely because there was no way to tell who would find Elia and the children, and if the baby was recognizable, then the switch would be revealed, and the child would get hunted as fiercely as Dany and Viserys were. Then there's your claim that there would be a bunch of people working to keep the child safe, but that means a bunch of people knowing the secret. The reason that Jon was so safe was because Ned and Howland were the only ones who knew, so they could keep it quiet; your plan requires dozens of people to keep a secret for decades without anyone slipping up. Given all of that, it seems much more likely that Varys, upon seeing the mangled corpse of baby Aegon, realized he could pull off this little switch and decided to give it a try. He wouldn't need to worry about all those unlikely events falling into place; Elia was already dead and he knew the body was unrecognizable. While I agree that fAegon will be important to Dany's story (I don't actually think he and Jon will have many, if any, interactions), I think the purpose he'll provide in the story is to show what Dany is willing to do when confronted with someone who is a good ruler that stands in her way. You brushed that aside as her dealing with a usurper (if he is fake) way too easily. In every instance that Dany has fought enemies, they have been pretty clearly horrible (the warlocks, the slavers, etc.). Putting her in a position where she has to kill someone who is good and peaceful based on her own beliefs in her legitimacy, would be the perfect culmination of her fire and blood storyline. And to do that, it doesn't really matter if Young Griff is real or not. All that matters is that he's good and the realm is peaceful. In fact, having her decide that his illegitimacy is more important than a peaceful realm would be a great sign of her descent into tyranny. Given all of this, while I think there is something to be said for him being the real Aegon, I think the situation is too convoluted for GRRM to try and justify. He is really big on logic at least making sense, and too many things would have had to happen perfectly for Young Griff to be the real deal. And indeed, as you mentioned in your video on who poisoned Joffrey, discovering things quickly usually means the character got something wrong, and Tyrion put all these pieces together over the course of a chapter. It's not unreasonable that some assumptions are incorrect. And, given everything that doesn't quite line up, it seems more likely that Young Griff is really a fake and is being used as a plot device to highlight Dany's descent into tyranny.

[@hyypio764]

I really don't see why Elia why wouldn't try to improve the chances of one of her children surviving. It's not like it would take anything away from her or her daughter's safety. Either they all very likely die or just two of them. Pretty black and white choice. I also don't think the rebels recognizing that the baby wasn't Aegon would be a problem at all. Varys is a spymaster and has Illyrio's wealth at his back. Hiding Aegon would be completely plausible with those resources. Not that it would even matter, since Robert didn't even particularly pursue Viserys and Dany. If anything, Westeros knowing that Aegon lived would only make his later invasion more effective.

[@calcifiedinnerbaldur]

Saying the warrior Queen Nymeria "relocated" to Dorne because they valued "peace and survival over war and power" makes no sense given that she went to war to establish her power in Dorne. How can you claim that the Targaryens :didn't manage their kingdoms well" when their dynasty was around 300 years long over a continent that consists of many different cultures and peoples? They continued to remain as the rulers even after their dragons went extinct which shows that they were capable of being rulers over a vast amount of land even without having a unique amount of power to enforce it. "Largely" attributing Dorne staying out of the conflict of the War of the Five Kings to Doran not wanting "unintended consequences" and the potential "collateral damage" doesn't accurately portray that conflict or Dorne's relationship with the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. What reason would Dorne have for getting involved with this particular war? There's nothing in that war that directly or even indirectly involves them, there's literally nothing for them to gain and a lot for them to lose. How can you claim the Targaryens made the 7 kingdoms "worse"? There's plenty of reasons to suggest the opposite is true such as one Targaryen king (forgot who exactly) outlawed nobles from practicing the "First Night". There is so much in this video that I disagree with and that is just completely wrong. Yikes, you seriously claimed that "Daenery's killed Viserys" and that she did it because she didn't believe he was a "true Targaryen". Well... She didn't kill him, so what are you talking about? Also, you talk about Daenary's "usurping land she has no right to" but fail to mention that she's doing it to free sl a ves. Given that you value egalitarianism I don't know why you're leaving out that part of why she's "usurping" these lands, or why you would even have a problem with it to begin with. Unbelievable XD

[@markagrippa4018]

I just highly doubt Aegon is a Blackfyre theres aboslutely no point of introducing some long lost Blackfyre bastard whose not even a direct descendent of the heirs given his age, I do think he is the legit Aegon VI though, I can picture a Aegon vs Daenerys battle building possibly him being able to steal and ride one of her dragons plus the fact the Martells obviosly have some insanely massively risky plan which I dont think they would have committed to unless they knew he was the real Aegon thus being half Martell.

[@Michael-tj8sv]

Great video with awesome points however I do not believe Jon to be a Targaryan but rather the actual trueborn son of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne. I also think that Dany will appear in Westeros during a Dream of Spring

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah, after GoT's big reveal of Jon's parentage I think he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's son in the books too, but I do lowkey love the Ned and Ashara theory as well. The Daynes aren't unlike the Martells in the sense that they have so much backstory buildup that they HAVE to be important, and obviously Jon being a Dayne would be huge (plus I'm really not a Rhaegar fan so I'd prefer it if Jon wasn't his son), but I think the Daynes probably have another role to play in the endgame of the story.

[@Michael-tj8sv]

@@HillsAliveYT The Daynes are an amazing house and such an enigma in the current story timeline and there are too many literary clues for them to be altogether left out of the story. Also, there are just so many clues and parallels that point to not only Jon being a Dayne and the trueborn son of Ned and Ashara but also that Mance Rayder is likely Arthur Dayne, Quorin was Oswell Whent, and Tormund is Gerold Hightower and Stannis knows about this all and is working with them. The channel The Order of the Green Hand has excellent videos relating to this and I highly recommend you check them out.

[@HillsAliveYT]

@@Michael-tj8sv Yeah I'm already subbed to The Order of the Green Hand! But I am more Team In Deep Geek when it comes to Dayne theories, I think the idea that Ashara is actually Howland Reed's wife and Meera and Jojen's mother is a pretty great one, but clearly House Dayne has a huge role to play in the future and I think it's extremely likely that they played a huge role in ending the first Long Night.

[@ttowen]

It’s…refreshing to see a theory arguing in favor of TruGon. I agree, it is more interesting if the *actually* legitimate heir to the throne still ends up a casualty of the Game of Thrones- one made by the fandom’s idealized heroes, no less.

[@stephanwatson7902]

Young Griff has always been my favorite character, regardless of who he really is, I feel that he would make a good King