3 Reasons Young Griff IS Aegon Targaryen | Winds of Winter Theories

There's a debate among readers as to whether or not Young Griff really is Aegon Targaryen or if he is really one of the last Blackfyres. Here's 3 reasons that support the theory he really is Aegon.
3 Reasons Young Griff IS Aegon Targaryen | Winds of Winter Theories
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[@sirbooksage]

Do you think Young Griff could really be Aegon Targaryen? Let me know!

[@constantinetranos2225]

No, I think he is Feagon/Mummer's Dragon. I think Faegon represents the real idea of "breaking the wheel": As long as someone is a good king, it doesn't matter whether or not he is the rightful heir. Rulership is an responsibility, not a right. By the way, Alt shift X has made a very good video on why Young Griff is FAegon.

[@firefireice5229]

Yes but the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna

[@robertlake9009]

When i first read the books, my theories were way different than they are now. I have read all the books 4 or 5 times each and i now have different theories. In the case of Aegon, i originally thought he was who he said he was. I thought he would ride Rhaegal beside Danaryeus, who ride Drogon, and John Snow while he rides Visaerion. John Snow and Aegon, would be brother husbands of Dany, and they would be the 3 heads of the dragon and would conquer Westeros, similar to Aegon the conquerer with his sister wives. Now however, i am skeptical of this theory. Mainly because my opinion of Jons mother has changed. Originally i bought into the R + L = J theory. Now i believe Jons parents are Ashara Dayne and Brandon Stark. Dany is the daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna who Ned swapped with Ashara as he couldnt pass off a silver haired, purple eyed baby as his own (im not going to go into details on why i think this or this comment would be a mile long). So if im correct, then John couldnt ride a dragon, so my original thought of John and Aegon both being married to Dany wouldnt work... Unless the ability to warg into an animal as John does with ghost, would also allow him to bound with a dragon. Also, Ashara has Valarion features, so in her bloodline there may also be the ability to bond with dragons. So it could be possible for John to ride a dragon. I am almost certain there will be 2 male dragon riders who mount Danys other dragons and both take Dany as a wife. Who could they be though? Jon and Aegon are the most obvious, but the Song of Ice and Fire series is never clear about anything. Its confusing (and its meant to be), and because of each chapter being 1 characters point of view, some questions are very unclear. Some are complete mysteries, while others are stories with 2 sides. So if this is the case with almost every character, it makes me wonder, is Aegon actually Aegon? Introduced late in the story, with everything about him being almost too obvious with almost no reason to doubt who he is. Plus, we only hear about him in the Tyrion chapters. Tyrion came up with the theory and Aegon confirmed it. Thats all the proof we have. Theories are just that. We have no way to know for sure who he is, but with purples eyes he is most likely a potential dragon rider no matter who he turns out to really be. Who else could he be though? Would George add a charcter with no connection to any of the main characters this late in the story, especially one with purple eyes? Who knows for sure but George, but that is why i have read the books 4 or 5 times each. I love them because nothing is clear or makes sense, which we can all relate to.

[@thedonkeypuncher2395]

If Aegon is alive then it was a baby swap when Elia returned to Kings landing while Rhegar was with Lyanna, I think Dorans wife took baby Aegon with her back to Essos. Also could be Lyanna didn't die in child birth but her baby did and she is Septa Lemora, Ashara Dayne could be Septa Lamora and its Lyannas child.

[@kyoukosci-fi]

100% sure he's Aegon Targaryen

[@shortbuspimp]

Varys reveals his plan to Kevan. He tells him that the baby was stolen away and raised right and is coming back. Why would he tell him MOST of the plan but some is a lie? He's telling him this because he is about to die and cannot reveal the plan. Why wouldn't Varys just tell him he faked Aegon? Also: a mummer's dragon could just as well be a dragon under the control of a mummer. Also: Varys would need to have a Blackfyre baby with the appropriate gender and look and age to swap out for Aegon ready to go when this opportunity struck. That's some pretty fortunate luck on Varys' part, don't ya think?

[@X525Crossfire]

Exactly about "the mummer's dragon" interpretation. It could always just be an in-universe version of "puppet ruler". And the trick to dealing with a puppet ruler is the power behind them; that's who Daenerys would be needing to look out for.

[@saltlakeatrocity9771]

I'm inclined to believe this, but why wasn't Rhaenys saved then? Throwaway answers like "oh, she's not important" or "just to sell the lie" don't feel satisfying. Smuggling & replacing one child seems like itd only be marginally easier than the same task with two babies. I feel like there'd have to be a better answer for Varys/Illaryo not to do so.

[@striker8961]

Dead men tell no tales, unless Illyrio has somehow tricked Varys… yeah, not happening, he must be real

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

@@striker8961 Dead men tell no tales, but in King's Landing, all of the walls have ears. They werent alone, and Varys knows he cant even trust his "little birds" 100% with a truth that crucial.

[@lxfj2128]

Facts mummers dragon just means Varys (a mummers’) dragon (aegon). So in other words he’s Varys dragon

[@thegreenstalker19yearsago50]

On a side note, Rhaegar who only appeared once as a flashback had the greatest quote. "His is the song of ice and fire, the dragon has three heads. There must be another.

[@matro2]

That was a vision not a flashback. He did actually show in a flashback in one of Jaime's chapters.

[@henriquemizu3733]

Proceeds to have his whole family killed bc some bullshit he just dreamt

[@thegreenstalker19yearsago50]

@@henriquemizu3733 targaryens don't have bullshit dreams. They are visions of the future. But it does misdirect them.

[@Garbagefly]

The 3rd dragon is tyrion. Mad king banged tywins wife. Its why he left KL and resigned as hand

[@LucasSpurrell]

I think GRRM loves to put in seemingly contradictory info to make us have these conversations. Is he a Blackfyre? N+A=J or R+L=J? Is The Halfhand a Hightower? This gets us as fans discussing and debating the evidence. Great way to create an engaged and dedicated fan base.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

For true Lucas

[@lxfj2128]

For everyone saying proof young griff isn’t aegon is because he uses the golden company. However everyone seems to forget that if young griff didn’t do that speech of I am the only dragon you need , the golden company would have abandoned him . So the golden company working with young griff is no proof of him being a blackfyre considering they were 3 seconds away from abandoning him

[@steadyjumper3547]

True at least the average golden company soldier doesn’t believe he’s a blackfyre. To me, the blackfyre thing is silly, the blackfyres are legitimate heirs after Aegon the unworthy. A dragon is a dragon indeed.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

VERY good point.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

@@steadyjumper3547 indeed indeed sir or lady. Indeed (in Pycell’s old voice)

[@bensonfang1868]

They may not all know that he’s a Blackfyre. Only Harry Strickland and laswell peake are Blackfyre supporters

[@janwouter5215]

True. Although, in a more poetic sense it could be seen as proof. I don't think we'll ever know. That's the point of his character, it doesn't matter cuz he'll be a good king

[@mimimurlough]

Now I imagine Varys having a whole string of Actually-Rhaegar's-chilren just in case. I think it boils down to what GRRM wants to say about power and how rhat plays out. Remember that whole speech about power lying where people think it does - it might not actually matter whether he's real or fake.

[@aidanrogers4438]

While I have drifted back and forth between Aegon being a Blackfyre or Targaryen (seeing the views on either side), these points about other characters switching around others, and Kevan’s thought about not being able to even recognise baby Aegon do make sense as hints that Aegon’s survival is plausible. Another thing I’ve thought of is that if Aegon was a fake, having Connington raise him would have been risky. Connington knew Rhaegar well and was Aerys’ Hand, he saw all the other Targaryens, as well as Rhaenys, Elia and her uncle, Prince Lewyn. If Connington didn’t think Aegon resembled either side of his family, Targaryen or Martell, then he might have begun to question Varys and Illyrio, and Aegon’s true parentage. Also, Tyrion himself doesn’t seem to doubt Aegon’s identity, that he’s a fake, a Blackfyre, or “pisswater prince”. Tyrion would be the most likely candidate at the time for doubting Aegon and at no time does he suspect so, in fact after Aegon loses his temper with Tyrion, after losing a game, it makes him think even more that Aegon could be a Targaryen after all. Unless Tyrion brings this up to Dany in TWOW, Tyrion doesn’t doubt he’s Rhaegar and Elia’s son.

[@rai2423]

Tyrion doubts everything about his story though. But Tyrion wouldn’t know whether or not he actually is a Targaryen. Tyrion isn’t really the type of character to jump to conclusions based on what he doesn’t know.

[@rdwyn2103]

Aegon is real, what is the point of Varys lied to a dying man? The current Golden Company is ready to support Viserys and Dany, so why the folks said Aegon is fake just because he got the support from GC when GRRM painfully writting that GC have been shown supporting two Targaryen as well. So the statement that GC only support Blackfyre had been redundant now. Aegon is one of the three head dragons, since the first book GRRM already hinted about it when he showed us Rhaegar and Elia talking about the three head dragons after he was born. Him being real has much more impact to the narrative rather than him being a fake one. The dance of dragons is always between Targaryen vs Targaryen not Targaryen vs Blackfyre.

[@Antisocialpessimist]

The dragon had three heads, Dany, rhaegar and viserys its just that the two other heads died and literal dragons were born.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

See? This is why I think the fake out might be a fake out. It’s George’s style.

[@rai2423]

The dragon already has three heads. Drogon, Viserion and Rhaegal. I don’t know why people think the three heads have to be people.

[@AdamNazari-k2l]

@@rai2423 each dragon prospectively has a rider

[@rai2423]

@@AdamNazari-k2l I don’t know if that’s true though. It definitely could be true but part of me feels as though that perhaps the three heads aren’t three different riders.

[@rk-br2cx]

I am rooting for him and Jon connington. I know it probably won’t happen but I would like to see him end up on the throne

[@thelateescapist8266]

Oh he'll end up on the throne ... Until Dany gets to Westeros.

[@nononono3421]

BTW some theorize Dany is not high born, that the real one died at birth and they took a so called "dragonseed"; children on Dragonstone who have Targaryen features. They would have done so to keep an additional asset before fleeing to Essos, which they later used essentially for a transaction. So if that was the case, Aegon being ALSO fake is a bit much. And if Aegon is the real deal and Dany isn't, it's more dramatic for her. George can lead most fans exactly where he wants them before a surprise, which in this case is making them all fawn over Dany and think Aegon is a fraud, only to turn the tables.

[@sirbooksage]

I've seen that theory that Dany isn't really Rhaegar's sister. I don't subscribe to them though. While it would be a wild plot twist I don't think it's realistic. Viserys was about 8 when Dany was born so unless the swap was made immediately Viserys would have noticed someone else suddenly in his sister's place. I think the big identity reveals will be Young Griff not really being a Targaryen and Jon Snow actually being one instead. But it's definitely a fun theory to play around with!

[@nononono3421]

@@sirbooksage The swap would have been before Viserys saw her as the real Dany would have died at birth. But I too doubt it. I am instead more and more convinced that the show radically changed the story in the later seasons, and that they really swapped Aegon with Jon. Jon finds out his true identity and out of frustration becomes the NK with Val to save and lead the free folk as they are facing rejection from ever living south, and because Jon wants to assume what he sees as his true place, leading the Others (Val has blue eyes and dresses all in white like the Corpse Bride, and Jon is referred to as the 13th lord commander since Aemon was at the wall, and the NK's brother's name was said to be Brandon, and Ygritte said he had an evil name). Aegon abandons his quest for the throne, possibly unable to get Cersei out, and bends the knee to Daenerys, uniting part of the realms to fight the Others, but then Daenerys sacks KL. Aegon ends up killing her, and Bran sends him to the wall. Basically, a big misdirection from George with Jon. Who knows, so many possibilities!

[@profoundpronoun4712]

@@sirbooksage if a swap happened at all, it happened right away so I think this is more than possible.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

@@nononono3421 exactly!

[@Aydan2108]

The d*mbest theory I ever heard 💀

[@rainluna9765]

Yes its possible and very likely. Don't forget that Varys knows his way around through secret tunnels and passages in the Red Keep, as we saw. Its possible that the dead baby wasn't even Aegon.

[@pyramidion5911]

One baby was smashed against a wall and the girl was stabbed so many times they had to wrap her in a cloak (because of a kick?). It seems very suspicious that no one got a clear look at the dead kids.

[@rainluna9765]

@@pyramidion5911 They didn't have forensics teams to properly find out who they were.

[@kylenetherwood8734]

The thing with the Blackfyre theory is it explains why Varys and Illyrio are so supportive of Aegon VI. I'm not sure why they would be in this case.

[@tarvoc746]

The line of succession is actually Aegon > Dany >>>>> Jon, because there is no way Rhaegar's marriage to Lyana (if that is even a thing in the books) will *ever* be seen as legitimate by the people of Westeros.

[@luminousignesia372]

I think it's likely that the information will be made public when people are already rallied behind jon so it's just that extra thing that gives him the upper hand over everyone else

[@rai2423]

@@luminousignesia372But why would anyone actually believe it? There is no forensic testing and there are no credible witnesses to the marriage and as the above commenter suggested, even if there were, no one would look at that marriage as legitimate. So no matter what Jon would not be considered for the throne by anyone. If the information gets out I could actually imagine it would make people hate Jon. But who knows Jon has been dead for over a decade now. So maybe George has some trick up his sleeve for us 😂

[@barrettbyrd5319]

By tradition in the North. Jon is legitimate. But all of you wrong on laws of succession. IF Jon is legitimate he is heir over both Aegon and Dany. Titles pass through line of oldest male child. So Jon before Aegon before Dany. See dance of dragons for example of this: Aegon before Daemon.

[@ignaciorodriguezpiceda6826]

I think it wouldn't matter much if Griff is really the son of Rhaegar and Elia, because he would continue to be the puppeteer's cloth dragon. Aegon VI is not behaving like a true Targaryen or Martell and is manipulated by others and by himself. A dragon is not a slave. Also the most important thing is that Griff does not show or have a link with magic like Dany or Jon Snow. Varys, Illyrio Mopatis, the Septa and Connington taught him how to be a king but not his true roots of their houses or the legacy that the Targaryens have with magic. If that Aegon turns out to be the real one. It would be more like Darion I and his conquest of Dorne. Aegon is not prepared to face Euron Greyjoy and the Others. He is not the Prince who was Promised and only caused the Second Dance of the Dragons...

[@LilyRosa-wf9jk]

GRRM has taken so long that this man was 17 years old when he started reading ASOIAF.

[@paschalnwosu1657]

Good video…. Interesting topic. Too many inaccuracies though. Rhaegar didn’t reject Cersei, that was Aerys. Jon Cannington was exiled during Rebellion by Aerys not after. Tywin didn’t put Cersei as the cost for his allegiance. He was struggling to prove his allegiance. That’s why he committed those murders. He only considered Cersei when it was obvious Lyanna was dead.

[@richardramirez3731]

Excellent points! I love the Game of Thrones talk… I believe young griff is Aegon

[@saltlakeatrocity9771]

I don't feel like Tywin would ever keep that secret. The books have always characterized him as never leaving things up to chance, and such a secret requires alot of chance that a more violent option of simply hunting the children wherever they got smuggled to would better sooth Tywin's distrust of chance.

[@Grenadier311]

Why would Lyanna name Him Jon Argon, when he already had a brother of the same name?

[@rai2423]

Right. This whole “real name thing” is from the show. There’s nothing to suggest he had a name. Besides, Rhaegar was hoping for him to be a girl anyways, so he could recreate the three conquerers.

[@BlueRazor69]

I also believe Griff is Aegon. I just think its good for the story.

[@Rodneyjackson11]

Agreed

[@thamayor6324]

Also Tywin probably never saw aegon he resigned as hand a year or so before the rebellion he wasn’t at court to see aegon. The mountain doing that was probably happenstance.

[@pyramidion5911]

Faegon seems like an easy assumption to make because of the golden company connection. But its too simple and obvious, drunk Tyrion plants the seed in our minds but its just a distraction from what is really going on.

[@_joe_58]

Great Video!

[@Uncle_Sam76]

It just seems like a huge plot whole that the golden company support him when George went through all that time explaining the blackfyre rebellions and why the golden company view Daerons line as illegitimate just to have them show up still sporting bittersteeles skull and be supporting a descendant of Daeron. Like what type of sense does that make?

[@JennyZinaTavares]

This was really good. I never stopped to think about the baby switching that were true. Why not the third? Very possible.

[@pyramidion5911]

There must be another

[@Blastanker]

I think there’s far too much hinting towards him not being the real Aegon. And too little hinting towards him being the REAL Aegon. Remember , Rhaegar said he was the prince that was promised... if he really was the true prince we would have had some kind of prophetic hints about it at some point or at least hints he was still alive..There’s also the fact that he is using the Golden Company to cause this invasion. Unsure if your familiar with the World of ice and fire and the Dunk and Egg books but the Golden company was formed by the Blackfyre exiles and its main goal was to one day Sit a blackfyre on the throne.. And we know that Illyrio did not pay them gold. “Some contract are writ in gold... and some in blood, I will say no more” Illyrio also mentions in that same chapter that “the blackfyres died out **In the male line** and we know Illyrios wife was named Saera and had silver hair.. she could very well be one of the blackfyres from the female line. Tyrion makes note of the fact that Illyrio, a Machiavellian uncaring Merchant lord shows true caring for the boy Aegon and he also notes that he has more care about this plan than just to the rewards of land and renown. Last little bit... I totally think he’s going to be king, cersei is too crazy to hold kings landing without any competent people around her. And they already took Storms.

[@sirbooksage]

I think Young Griff is most likely a Blackfyre as well. The three things I mention in the video, plus the issue of Varys do give me some hesitancy, hence this video. Would Varys push for a Blackfyre to take the Iron Throne over actual Targaryens? I'm not so sure he would. But it is really difficult to say since all we know directly of Varys' motivations here are contained in Arya's 3rd chapter in A Game of Thrones when she hears Varys and Illyrio speaking and in the Epilogue in A Dance With Dragons when he reveals the coming of Aegon to the dying Kevan. I suppose one question to ponder: Will Martin ever let us really know?

[@Blastanker]

@@sirbooksage I hope he doesn’t reveal it. Would be a lot better that way.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

You are assuming that prophecy is real and not a mummer’s trick. A shadow on the wall. I’m unsure.

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

@@sirbooksage Varys says it himself: he doesnt care about dynasties or who sits on the throne beyond whether they'd be good for the realm and its people. If the Blackfyre in question were groomed from a young age to be a competent ruler who cares for the smallfolk and knows their struggles firsthand, he absolutely WOULD support him over an actual Targaryen.

[@pyramidion5911]

@@profoundpronoun4712 prophecy is real in the story. Melisandre has many visions/prophecies that come true. Its the interpretation of prophecy that people struggle with.

[@AdaManny555]

The point about the miller's boys and knowing that GRRM takes a lot of inspiration from the true history about that is what REALLY sells it to me. That is most likely exactly why he did it. And also, some people including me think that it's "cheap" that Aegon wasn't introduced until all the way into ADWD, but then: Realize this: That GRRM had originally intended ADWD to be the second book of three, and then the third out of four, and so forth...

[@lilbabybeard]

umm “some contracts are written in blood, i say no more” -illyrio ADWD

[@Antisocialpessimist]

I am a little late, but fAegon has all the ingredients of Dany's arc mixed with Jon. He' not his own character, besides the targaryen look he doesn't have any symbolics around him yes "you have a dragon he stands before you" is something Daeron said but fAegon was also taught history, dany wasn't. Literally anyone can say a quote they heard before in a story. Another reason, Dany couldve easily married fAegon, theyre close in age, he's handsome and he has valyrian features if they did married the story wouldn't have been this compelling expecially when GRRM introduced young griff in the fifth book.

[@lokimischievous1698]

I do think it is conceivable that Tywin could have known. How do we know that he did not allow Varys to swap. Or I think it is possible that Varys escaped with the babe first. I don't think young Griff will survive anyway.

[@matro2]

I don't think so either. He's got too small of a following and he appeared too late. It's going to be a heroic tragedy before the story shifts back to Dany and Jon.

[@Blastanker]

Oh wow good timing for this! Just talking to you about Jon Con lol

[@obsy6910]

it doesnt matter at all if he is or isnt. all that matters is he can convince people that he is

[@rai2423]

Right. Young Griff isn’t important. We have all the important players already. He’s just there to serve other character’s plot.

[@kevinvest9693]

Rhaegar was also disinherited in favor a viseris my the mad king. Dany is Viseris heir. so you have competing claims just like the dance.

[@sirbooksage]

If news of Rhaegar's death reached the Mad King's ears before his own death he would have certainly names Viserys as his heir. Going by history and precedent, Jon, if he's indeed not a bastard, might be considered to have the stronger claim as he is the last surviving male heir of the Mad King (through Rhaegar). But Dany would strictly have the greater claim over Jon since Rhaegar died before the Mad King and she would be next after Viserys. But if Aegon is indeed Aegon, his claim would supersede Jon's and hers, as he would be Jon's uncle, and her older brother. Either way, no matter which claim was the actual stronger, the Seven Kingdoms would splinter behind each claimant.

[@kevinvest9693]

@@sirbooksage the history targaryen kings always named their heirs after the tourney of Harrenhal The Mad King disinherited Rhaegar for Viseris. Dany was Viseris' named heir. Aegon, Jon, and Dany would all have strong claims Jon's would be the weakest if Aegon is Rhaegar first true born son.

[@sirbooksage]

@@kevinvest9693 Doesn't the claim that Aerys disinherited Rhaegar in favor of Viserys come from one unreliable Maester's writings? While possibly a credible claim some lords would latch onto, many lords would reject outright as lacking proof. One could view Maester Yandel's account of events to use the claim of Viserys being named heir as a shortcut to establish Viserys and any surviving Targaryens legitimacy as heirs to the throne were they to make a claim to retake it. Either way, a fun debate about inheritance and legitimacy that is bound to have some real in-story consequences as Martin moves through his final 2 books.

[@theanarchistcook]

I think the association with the Golden Company really is the giveaway. If they abandon their commission for the first time ever, it's not going to be for one of their enemies. And the baby-swapping could just as easily serve as foreshadowing for Aegon being passed off as a Targaryen.

[@danfromNY]

to your point, looking again at the “Mummer’s Dragon”-maybe the “cloth dragon” doesn’t signify he’s not of true blood, but that his ‘house banner’ alone will be enough to win over the people (as opposed to Dany who conquers with real Targaryen dragons)

[@Aghori_Tantrik208]

Sir in Chapter 22 of A Dance with Dragons,while Tyrion and Young Griff play cyvasse, Tyrion considers aegon/young Griff as Joffrey,so maybe he is not a good lad nature-wise and mentally weak.Bit impulsive or may end up being a "Mad Prince". All that cyvasse scenario also shows that Young Griff lacks someone to advice and counsel him, someone like Tyrion or Verys...And maybe Tyrion sends him to Westeros so that He fight all the wars and then Tyrion brings Danny to Iron throne without any war. Your opinion on this, please!!

[@davidebasile9422]

the next Tyrion chapter, 27, is where Tyrion finds out that Aegon is heading west rather than east. Tyrion is surprised and considers them fools, as they have no dragons. Considering how Targaryens are obsessed with dragons, this is probably another hint to the fact that Aegon is not a true Targaryen.

[@sinjun1973]

I think Aegon is the real deal. Jon Con knew Rhaegar well and says he looks and act like his father. Tyrion met Rhaegar before and he sees the likeness in Aegons features and mannerisms. There are several allusions to baby switching and the possibility of baby switching. Verys would do anything to save the child if he thought it was the best hope to save the kingdom. Also, if Elia thought they were going to kill her and her children but knew she could save one she most definitely would and she would clutch that baby to her chest tightly to hide their face so no one would notice that it wasn’t actually hers. Why just the baby? A baby could have been close at hand belonging to a servant or visitor. Meanwhile, Verys used the secret tunnels to take Aegon away with no one the wiser.

[@aripeters2412]

R+L=A and they’re only claiming he’s argon to get JonConn on board. He wouldn’t do it if illyrio just told him that he’s Lyanna’s son without any proof of there being a baby (cause remember nobody else knows there was even a baby at the tower). They used a real baby that he had seen and would have cared about

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

Story A - The protagonist we follow are good and right and have to end some lying liar. Story B - Griff is Aegon and has a legit stronger claim and even thought other characters feel they would be better leaders they have to deal with their position in the world now and the morality of usurping the thrown if they feel like they should be in charge. What one sounds like GRRM?

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

Exactly one is a normal story the other is the messed up shit George is known for

[@michakoniecpolski5677]

Story C: putting unnecessary m**lestation of minor girls

[@rai2423]

Neither one of these options sound like George…

[@Mephisto707]

By the time Tywin entered the red fortress, surely Gregor and the other Lannister lackeys had already killed the children, no? I mean, Tywin would not be with them at the vanguard to storm the red fortress and surely Gregor wouldn't be playing babysitter to the kids waiting for Tywin's orders.

[@abzeromusic]

I think the most compelling evidence that it is Aegon who he claims to be is the fact that we get Jon Connington's POV and he thinks that it is Aegon in his mental dialog. He sl thinks to himself that he failed the father and he wants to succeed with his son to make up for his failures. He should know what Aegon would look like and he would have been in on this early

[@varlmorgaine3700]

Personal i think it ends with 3 targaryens fighting for the throne, as a new start of the game of thrones. On n thrown, on with a army on the way and one gathering forces

[@arrrhoo]

Jaimie lannister was in red keep when aegons murders took place. He was sworn to protect the king and his family. Even if baby aegon was swapped by varys the jaimie should know it.

[@sirbooksage]

It depends. If Jaime remained in the throne room after killing the mad king, which is where he was when Ned entered, then Jaime wouldn't have been personally privy to what went down with Rhaegar's family in the royal chambers. Jaime would have only Tywin's word on it.

[@arrrhoo]

@@sirbooksage jaime was in kings landing during entire roberts rebellion. Jaime and Barristian Selmy are two surviving members of King Aerys's kingsguard. They should have some knowledge on what was going on there. Jaime could have heard more details from Gerold Hightower. It will be very difficult to convince Jaime or others in kings landing that Aegon was swapped. The northmen asked Jeyne Pool questions about Winterfell to know if she was really Arya. Wyman Manderlly knows that the direwolf can prove Rickons identity. Young Griff has no such proof with him. And there are bastards who rode dragons in the past.

[@thamayor6324]

Let’s not forget that’s exactly what Ned did with John…it’s the oldest trick in Westeros

[@laurelsilberman5705]

Nice video!

[@johnathanwalker8395]

My big question is, were Aegon to be a Blackfyre. Would that have to be a bad thing? Were he to marry Dany that would unite the fueding Targerian houses.

[@micahmcfadden8082]

Melisandre knows that the baby isnt monster she knows mances blood has no power

[@micahmcfadden8082]

If varys wanted whats good for the realm why would he keep arys in power and not empower rhaegar but says his son is the rightful king that doesnt make sense also illyrio mentions a sword for fAegon its definitely blackfyre

[@mandoad1841]

well seeing as þe Blackfyres were exiled to essos it would make sense þat Aegon VI would have blackfyre, kind of mirroring Aegon þe conquerer. just wiþout Two sister wives and dragons. and narrative be interesting.

[@notaseal7864]

My big thing is Young Griff has to be a dragon. Wether it’s Black or red matters not, but if he actually were just some peasant boy Varys raised to think was a prince I would be disappointed

[@ribkan4759]

5:22

[@peteperkins3859]

Young Griff is Aegon is from Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark.

[@Joybuzzard]

When they light him on fire we'll know for sure.

[@kevinvest9693]

why would the Golden company support a true targaryen? the Golden company swore to put a black fire on the throne.

[@dario5178]

I think he is the real Aegon simply because that is more interesting

[@jeffpoehl9100]

Aegon and Arianne could both get Greyscale,which would be fitting because they're both young and beautiful,or Arianne gets it.Faegon would be good,because there are so many references to Blackfyres,I would prefer that one,still Targaryen blood

[@sirbooksage]

I can't imagine Connington isn't going to spread the Greyscale to others, especially as it progresses. It would be quite the irony if Young Griff really is Aegon only for his life to be cut short by Connington giving him Greyscale. And I'm really curious as to what is going to happen to Arianne Martell. I do hope she survives but I've no idea how or where she will ultimately end up if she does. I fear the Targaryens will be the ultimate ruin of House Martell though.

[@jeffpoehl9100]

@@sirbooksage She will end tragically,one way or other,probably as Queen,with greyscale,or dragon fire

[@thetalesofelbek7042]

YG is à Blackfyre, son of Ilyrio and Lady Saera Blackfyre.

[@sounsure9108]

I think the way targerinans work both sons are legitimate

[@selor8151]

maybe its the show in me but its really hard for me to accept that jon isnt aegon VI i hope young griff is faegon

[@nononono3421]

I think it could go in any direction, but I certainly don't believe that Aegon will be the one on the throne when Dany arrives, I think it will be Cersei. I think Aegon's role narratively is "don't put all your faith in perfect kings", especially not a kid. Varys and Connington have put all of their hopes on him, so I believe he will buckle under the pressure. I think he will fear powerful women; Dany when he hears she burned Quentyn, and Arianne who tries to push herself onto him. We need to pay attention to Elia Sanda and her Lyanna-like behavior. People always assume Rhaegar was all courageous and a leader, but what if he wasn't? What if he was afraid of what was to come? Or the responsibilities? Did he even want to rule, or did he plan to change the power structure to move away from kingship? That might be why he and Lyanna disappeared for so long, and finally Rhaegar took his courage and went out but died in battle, what may have been his first. I suspect the same will happen with Elia, but instead of going to war he will go to fight Gregor, when he hears he is alive, possibly with some of the other Sand Snakes and Elia herself (she has a spear, like Oberyn had to fight him). And I think they will lose the fight. Now was he the real Aegon or not, who knows. I feel like we might never know. But Aegon believing he might not be the real deal could also mess with his mind and cause that "buckling under pressure" I mentioned above. "Love is the bane of honor, the death of duty." Once he is dead, Varys and Connington, who the later hates the former, are going to have to look elsewhere to fulfill their goals. I believe they'll end up on opposing sides. Connington would likely end in a position to "burn the whole city down to get to the spider", a reliving of the Bells situation, so presumably on Dany's side.

[@sirbooksage]

I'm curious as to how long Connington is going to survive. I'd be surprised if he outlives Aegon. My next WoW Theory video is all about who I think might die in The Winds of Winter. But I do keep coming back to wondering why the showrunners went with the bells triggering Dany into burning everyone. The bells is certainly a Connington thing. Does that mean Connington will make it that far and he'll be the one that sets off a bunch of wildfire caches? That would be an interesting twist if it's Connington, fighting for Dany, who does that. Having her not doing it but getting blamed as though she did would be an interesting play of events on Martin's part. As for Aegon, he's certainly going to be tested very quickly in Winds. It will be interesting to see if he rises to the challenge or folds like you suspect.

[@nononono3421]

@@sirbooksage I think Jaime blows up the city or part of it with Red Keep to die with Cersei (won't go in the details here but basically they flee through the secret tunnels and get lost, stumble on it, Jaime decides to light it up with sparks from his golden hand against the rocks; there is a prophecy the gold of Casterly Rock will doom the Targs). Connington I do think will lie to Dany when the call to surrender is given, telling her they are not surrendering. Something like that. Like he'll be sent to negotiate and ring the bells twice if they surrender, three times if not. He rings them thrice even if they surrendered.

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

Dany's vision about a cloth dragon cheered by the people and her being the "slayer of lies", coupled with the prophecy from Quaithe about the "mummer's dragon" seem to strongly indicate she'll be going up against Aegon being in KL, not Cersei (since her HotU vision has been completely accurate so far). Aegon will succeed, and he'll be a popular king--far more than Daenerys, who will likely be feared and hated by people of Westeros for her dragons and foreign army (and that'll be what leads to her going down the "mad queen" path) I dont see a viable way for Cersei to be on the throne in the books, given the world and politics set up by Martin. Her coronation in the show felt kind of like an ass-pull from the showrunners that was done to fill the gap left from one of their omissions (in this case, Aegon). Here's what I think Cersei's story is going: She wins her trial by combat, so is no longer in custody of the Faith Militant, but the Tyrells are pretty much in control. She'll manage a plot to kill Mace and Margaery (which could set Loras on the path to become the "Valonquar" of prophecy), giving her a grip over Tommen again who she has put basically under house arrest "for his safety". However, when Aegon's forces show up to besiege King's Landing, someone loyal to her (probably Osmund Kettleblack, who has access to Tommen as a Kingsguard) takes Tommen hostage and makes her choose between surrendering either Tommen's life or King's Landing because nobody wants this siege. She tries to call his bluff and refuses to surrender the city, so Tommen is murdered on the spot. Soon after, she gets snuck out of KL by Qyburn as Aegon's forces occupy the city, and she retreats to Casterly Rock, where she's eventually killed (by either Jaime or Loras)

[@shawnwilt7196]

So, everyone seems to forget the fact that Rhegar's body was never found after the battle where he was supposedly killed. I honestly believe he is still ... somewhere ... alive-ish.

[@sirbooksage]

If he's still out there somewhere that would be really interesting. Is he secretly being held at the Citadel by the archmaesters?

[@pyramidion5911]

And how many times are those damned rubies mentioned. Its almost like george is hinting at something about rhaegars death.

[@pyramidion5911]

@@sirbooksage A man wonders

[@SSolemn]

Maybe at the Quite Isle with his other "rubies"

[@camrn_brian]

Spoiler alert. The Walkers kill everyone.

[@FilmBookReview]

Rhaegar Targaryen didn't reject Cersei, the king rejected Tywin's overtures of a betrothal between his son and Tywin's daughter.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

I picked that up as well. I think he just misspoke however. Good catch.

[@pyramidion5911]

Well he never showed any affection for her before or after despite cersei being head over heels for him so in a way he did reject her.

[@FilmBookReview]

@@pyramidion5911 I remember that part of the book. The king told Tywin something like your a good servant or your my best servant but Rhaegar was going to marry someone from Dorne. Rhaegar had nothing to do with his match. His father picked his bride, for more riches, power, and available soldiers. Dorne had more of all of those than Tywin did with his single castle and gold mine.

[@realdaggerman105]

@@FilmBookReview The Westerlands are more powerful than Dorne is. The Lannisters have more men, much more gold and especially after years of Tywin as hand, more political influence. Rhaegar and Cersei would have been a fantastic match. But Aerys turned spiteful and resentful after years of being overlooked.

[@sleekoduck]

Cersei fantasized about flying on a dragon with Rhaegar and loves wildfire. She's her father's daughter, in spite of his comments about not sleeping with the help. Maybe he just didn't want another Blackfyre branch popping out from Cersei Hill.

[@firefireice5229]

Their is a different theory we’re Aegon is the actually son of Rhaegar and Lyanna not Jon. That the show gave the name Aegon to Jon to combine the storylines that George reviled to them. What do you think of this?

[@profoundpronoun4712]

This is where it’s tricky. Did D&D cannibalize the corpse of the story and use the bits left over? Is Aegon being Jon’s “real name” significant? They literally did NOTHING with that reveal. It makes me wonder if they didn’t just pull that out of the very poor ass they were pulling from.

[@pyramidion5911]

@@profoundpronoun4712 corpse of the story? They cut out like half the books then tried to make sense of it all in two seasons with only a handful of episodes while including/bastardizing some loose points Grrm gave them.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

@@pyramidion5911 trust me my friend, Game of Thrones is the very best example of one thing in history this far: You can everything right. Everything in a production be top notch, but, and this is a J-Lo sized but, if you don’t have the writing, you have nothing. I am SO disappointed with GOT from like, season 4 onward. IF they actually reproduced the books like they did with season 1, the show would have run for 20 seasons and they never would have out paced George. Well, maybe. Once Dave & Dan got sick and tired of GOT then, much like the Harry Potter movies, you just bring in other passionate creatives to do a couple seasons. I could not be more dissatisfied with where it ended up.

[@sounsure9108]

So Jon is who then? Really a snow

[@profoundpronoun4712]

@@sounsure9108 I subscribe, in the books that is, that Dany is R+L = J and Jon is Brandon and Ashara’s child. Swapped out and protected by Ned, along with the secret of Dany

[@jefferydbzcoo]

2 baby swap story that involves jon and young griff. I believe N+A=J and R+L=FA

[@biggiejinx]

Makes more sense that it’s a descendent of Jaehaerys daughter Saera. She ended up in Lys as a pillow servant. She had several kids. The financial supporter of young griff’s quest was Illyrio Mopatis. He married a young pillow house worker from Lys named Serra. I think that Serra is a Targaryen descendent and illyrio had young griff with Serra. Not a blackfyre though. Saera wasn’t a bastard, but was disowned. One of Saera’s children even put forward a claim for the iron throne during The old king’s reign when all the lords voted on succession laws. My 2 cents

[@Ladybug-no9sc]

I believe Aegon was left off the show for a reason. His entire character is just a distraction, I think he's just some Dragon seed being passed off as a Prince for people to rule through. A child becomes whoever you raise them to be, just because he believes it doesn't make it real. Remember Gaymen Pale hair during the Dance? Poor kid.

[@sirbooksage]

The showrunners unfortunately cut out so many characters from the books. Perhaps they cut Young Griff out completely because he's a red herring, or they just didn't want to bother. They cut out most of the Dornish plotline as well. In the end I don't think Young Griff actually is Aegon, but the fun of it will be in the reading once it comes.

[@Ladybug-no9sc]

@@sirbooksage Thanks for the response!!!❤ Red herring was the exact phrase I was looking for lol. It's not just the show, he doesn't even have a POV chapter and we still don't really know much about him. I think him choosing to take the advice from someone he doesn't know from a Family that can not be trusted so strongly says quite a lot, and he doesn't think to try and reach out to Dany in any way before making such a power play against someone with Dragon also shows a serious lapse in judgment. He could have at least sent an envoy, letters something. All signs point to disaster. If he does sit the throne that would be a major plot two.

[@sirbooksage]

As far as him not being a POV, Martin has been very deliberate in choosing his POV characters. With the exception of Dany, none of the main rivals/heirs for the Thrones have been POVs. We only saw Robert, Stannis, Renly, Robb Stark, Joffrey, etc., through the eyes of the POV characters around them. I am really curious to see what mayhem he will cause. Will he take King's Landing from Cersie and be the one who faces off against Dany when she arrives? Or will he overreach too soon and be betrayed? Whatever it ends up being he'll most likely will take a few POV characters down with him.

[@Ladybug-no9sc]

@@sirbooksage Great Point!

[@wasistdustin]

Honestly, Martin has laid out his story in a way where both explanations are perfectly plausible. There is enough set-up for both things to be true, but only one can. Both scenarios are complicating the story and I very much love the Blackfyre Rebellion backstories and for them to become that much more integral to the happenings in the main story is very intriguing, so I hope for that one to be true

[@WTC-1990]

I believe Young Griff is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen & Lyanna Starrk The song of Fire & Ice I believe Jon Son is the son of Ned Starrk & Ashara Dayne Dawn of Ice

[@jerimeyperry3282]

"Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood. I say no more." Then Tyrion ponders the Golden Companies history as being founded by the rebellious Targaryens known as the Blackfyres and briefly their lineage. Beneath the gold, the Bittersteel. Bittersteels golden skull sits on top of the standard of the golden company so he leads the van when the golden company puts the Blackfyre heir on the iron throne. The Targaryens are their sworn enemy I'll believe that until I read the winds of winter and a dream of spring. Dany will get to westeros in winds. The iron fleet are there to bring her home. I can't wait for more from king and lord Reaper crow's eye

[@pyramidion5911]

Low hanging fruit

[@theswagman1263]

don't think any of us will be reading a dream of spring lol

[@autoclock8650]

Martin uses too much consistent symbolism for me to think it means nothing. Plus, for Varys and Illyrio to bet on a fake Aegon is a colossal gamble neither one of them needs to take. Illyrio was fine not being involved, and Varys could've just vanished after Jaime forced him to help Tyrion, which led to an act of patricide that forced Varys to get out of King's Landing. There is going to be a reason the Spider takes this risk. I also suspect that Littlefinger's activities have something to do with it. Someone wanted Tommen as king, I think Cersei was next on the hit list if she didn't mess up of her own accord (which was easy to foresee). An eight year-old boy is no match for anyone else vying for the throne, especially with no one competent to advise him.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

True and you know, Baelish actually laments Cercei’s decent into madness or rather the speed at which she is unraveling things. That needs to be taken into account.

[@rai2423]

It would make sense if Faegon is related to the either Illyrio or Varys. People are forgetting Dany’s visions of a mummer’s dragon being praised by a crowd. Her visions were objective and most of them ended up coming to fruition so we have no reason to doubt that the other ones will also not be true.

[@appledawn1674]

The main reason I think Aegon is a fake is because of Rhaenys. I can believe that Varys could snuggle out Aegon, we even know that Viserys and his mom were smuggled out by some random knight. But am I to believe that Varys and Illyrio only cared about Aegon and not his sister? Why wouldn't Varys try to save her? Plus Illyrio's treatment of Viserys and Danny is super weird if they are Targaryen loyalists. Why didn't he take in the siblings once their caretaker died? Was nine year old Viserys so nasty and horrible that he would condemn Rhagar's brother and sister to rot on the streets until they suddenly became politically useful? Blackfire or no, I think it's way more likely that Aegon is a Valeryan son of Illyrio. Illyrio wants his son on the iron throne, possibly to fulfill his dead wife's wishes. (The whole "old fools have debts of affection). And Varys is helping because Illyrio has been his only family since they met in Pentos. Plus, as Kevin Pendragon pointed out in his incredible video on Varys, why did Varys even come to Kings Landing in the first place? He already had a friend, money, and established spy network in Pentos. Why would he give all of that up to move to a different continent, work for a paranoid sociopath, and be reviled by nobility and small folk alike. He even tells Ned that spider's shouldn't be brave. So why would he risk saving baby Aegon just because he might have liked Rhagar? And if the baby swapping thing is true, then this was preplanned and not a spur of the moment compulsion. The only real plot hole for (f)Aegon for me is why Varys is only half confessing to Kevin.

[@nigelbellecoste1391]

Eventhough id love him to be aegon... i believe its faegon. The books inherently imo are about the question does blood matter?

[@jeremiasbunzel8885]

I think it is impossible for Young Griff to be Aegon. He has blue eyes. Where did he get those from?

[@sirbooksage]

While I do think it more likely Young Griff is a Blackfyre, there have been some Targaryens who have had blue eyes.

[@lxfj2128]

U got it wrong his eyes are blue in the morning and appear dark bluish to purple in the night Tyrion said . Secondly targeyrean eyes are always from a blue colour to purple pink so that’s not really important

[@jeremiasbunzel8885]

@@lxfj2128 You're probably right about that but I do think it is more likely he inherited his eyes from Illyrios wife Serra.

[@Jarir-vd1ow]

I want to say I love Damon Blackfire and King Deron both are great and Blackfire is a brave knight and a noble prince bearing the blood of Valeria and King Deron a wise king who loves science and reading and the reason I say this is the dream that Daenerys had, the mother of dragons, about the false dragon ( (The False Prince) The young griff, whether we like it or not, is of Valeria and of Targaryen blood, and there are two things before us: 1) that he be the offspring of Damon's Blackfire, or 2) that he be Aegon VI, and I think since there is no other Targaryen left He is the last heir, especially after the death of Viserys, the son of King Eris (the mad king), and the young griff is a clever warrior and succeeded in conquering Storm and the stronghold of the Baratheon family. He was a king over Westeros, and his ancestors did not rule the continent of Westeros, but rather they ruled Essus, and if he wanted to recover his legal right, Westeros was not his right, but Essus, especially since his ancestors were kings in it, and he was not entitled to the law in the rule of Westeros, the young griff and Aegon both Of Valeria and Aegon conquered the Seven Kingdoms and took control of them, so why not The young griff is like King Aegon, if the young griff takes control of Westos, he takes it after fights and wars, and he has an advantage which is his right to rule. A legitimate son, this means either that one of the sons of Valeria's house sits on the throne and the offspring of Aegon the Conqueror.

[@bensonfang1868]

The fact that Aegon waits til he gets to Westeros to decide and dyes his hair mirrors John the fiddler from the mystery knight

[@ZoomReverseFlash]

As for the Second Dance of the Dragons - don't forget that this DOES NOT mean necessarily a new Targaryen civil war, as that happened already, but without dragons (the Blackfyre rebellions were, like the Dance, about succession of the House Targaryen). So, the Second Dance of the Dragons means a battle of actual dragons, specifically, not of Targaryen factions. So, Dany will likely have Drogon, and then the other dragons may be up for grabs - by Aegon, the Others, or even Victarion and Quentin, for all we know.

[@JLchevz]

I don't think we'll get a straight answer, I think George has written in a way that it looks like it's a Targaryen and if we look for those clues they're there, but the evidence for FAegon is also very compelling although yeah it's just a theory but it's one of the more complete ones. Still, I think that's not the point of Aegon, the point of bringing him on is to complicate things for Dany and to play a role in Westeros before Dany arrives, and it makes the whole thing more interesting, and whatever happens, it will be either tragic/ironic whether he is a Targaryen or an impostor. But I DO think that what you said makes a lot of sense and I don't have a very definitive conclusion about this lol

[@DoMoTV22]

I think he isn't Aegon.. It’s just too easy,its Song of Ice and Fire

[@bensonfang1868]

The strongest argument in favor is that jon con recognizes him, but remember cersei thinks that aurane looks like Rhaegar too, and aurane is as far removed from Rhaegar genetically as FAegon would be if he were a Blackfyre. As for the baby swap, as possible as it is, I find it hard to rationalize why Varys and illyrio would spend so much effort trying to prop up real Aegon if it’s not illyrio’s kid.

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

Same reason men in our own history did it for gain suck as when a French king supported an english prince for their own benefit power is a universal language

[@micahmcfadden8082]

Its fAegon

[@thelateescapist8266]

Although I still lean heavily toward the Aegon Blackfyre theories, I must give credit where credit is do. This is the best reasoned argument for Aegon's legitimacy that I've heard in the fandom. And although I'm still not convinced, I'll be less shocked he does turn out to be Rhaegar's true son in light of the clues SirBookSage has pointed out. 👌🏾

[@harley6314]

Why would varys lie to Kevin about it when he knows he is dying and won’t leave the room. That would make no sense

[@okdude8215]

The reason i think hes really Aegon is that GRRM doesnt try to make him too good, so that we underestimate him and think him a brat just cause he got angry at Tyrion, who nearly everyone gets angry at btw, even his whole family... 😅

[@generaltom6850]

7:50 well, see he (Rhaegar) doesn’t need to annul his marriage to Elia, the Valyrians have a history of Polygamy, it’s not common only two Targaryen kings before him have done it (Aegon I and Maegor I) but it’s technically legal within the bounds of even the faith due to Jahaerys’s “Doctrine of Exceptionalism”.

[@samtinashemaraya2322]

It's not legal maegor went to war with the faith with dragons and even then they only allowed incest and not polygamy,Rhaegar had no dragon he couldn't enforce it even if he wanted

[@permiebird937]

FAegon Blackfyre Mopatus, son of Illryio and his Blackfyre bride. Illyrio gives it away. Illyrio's behavior is that of a father hoping to see his child. He drops clues about the Blackfyres not dying out in the female line. Illyrio's behavior when he discovers he cant see FAegon when he drops off Tyrion with Jon Con. I could accept that perhaps FAegon is a desendant of Seara, Jaheryes daughter, but I think Illyrio's Blackfyre wife was more likely the mother. Not that the Blackfyre mother couldn't be decended from Seara Targaryan too. I could see a Blackfyre looking for Seara's descendants to keep the Valyrian blood strong. I find Varys story of how he found the baby to swap totally dodgy. To believe Varys, I must accept that he knew ahead of time everything that was going to happen. Varys would need to know where a boy child with targ hair that is close in age to Aegon was and get a hold of him in the middle of the sack of KL, bring him to the Red Keep, and convince Elia to hand over her son to him. Nearly everyone we meet dislikes Varys and does not trust him. I can't imagine Elia handing her baby to Varys. Elia is a valuable hostage, and she would expect to be held and ransomed. Her children might face being sent to the citadel, faith, or nights watch as teens to make them unable to seek the throne as adults, but in normal circumstances they would not be killed during the sack of KL.That is part of why people are so outraged about what happened. When Varys talks to Kevan, Kevin is dying, but Varys cannot be certain that no one else can hear him, there is Kevan, Varys and the children who stab Kevan, and the white raven who might know how to speak. If any of those children can talk or write, they can tell what happened. Varys cannot risk the truth about FAegon to get out, so why not lie to a dying man. Make sure anyone listening hears about how great and "real" FAegon is.

[@janakipejov3667]

Nah, these are weak. Theres 10x more clues, strong ones too, that suggest fAegon

[@mschell8022]

Brilliant. Youre an amazing vid essayist, really enjoyed this!

[@kyoukosci-fi]

Landing The Dragon… In the city Volon Thaerys near Volantis, Young Griff proclaimed that as Aegon VI King Of the Andals, the first men and the Rhoynar, protective Realm (As the king of Westeros), was witnessed by the The company gold, Jon Connington, and Ser Rolly Duckfield (Kingsguard)… Then the group walked towards the Westeros, with a fleet of ships, they acquire in Stromlands (the Territory of the House Baratheon)… In Kingslanding, Varys killed Ser Kevan Lannister with the arrows Cross bow, and Varys story tells Aegon's son Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell is still alive, Kevan't believe the story of Varys, who Kevan believe that Aegon and Elia Martell had been killed by Ser Gregor Clegene at the time of the Sack of Kingslanding by Tywin Lannister… Varys said: Seven Kingdoms need A King that is gentler than Stannis Baratheon, and Tommen Baratheon… I'm the dragon that is needed, Claim me more stronger than Daenerys Targaryen, come with me… (Young Griff /Aegon vi Targaryen)

[@sleekoduck]

I have a different theory that I haven't seen in its full form. I think "Faegon" is the legitimate baby brother of Viserys, who was switched with Daenerys Stormborn, who is the daughter of Aerys and Ashara Dayne (Septa Lemoore), who is helping to raise Young Griff. This has strong evidence in the first Game of Thrones book. I've seen half of it on Gemma's channel and half on Order of the Green Hand. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@paschalnwosu1657]

Good video…. Interesting topic. Too many inaccuracies though. Rhaegar didn’t reject Cersei, that was Aerys. Jon Cannington was exiled during Rebellion by Aerys not after. Tywin didn’t put Cersei as the cost for his allegiance. He was struggling to prove his allegiance. That’s why he committed those murders. He only considered Cersei when it was obvious Lyanna was dead.

[@novafloyd12]

I think there was a baby swap, I like your take on it. I suspect the details of the baby swap may be more complicated however. My theory is that brandon stark + ashara dayne = jon and lynanna + rhegar = griff. Ned could pass jon for his own but needed to find care for his sister’s blonde haired heir child safety from robert’s wroth. So ashara takes griff and gives her child to ned to raise in his fathers home. Means jon could still be reunited with his mother in the end… then again there’s the nissa nissa prophesy and dawn is sword of the morning, the breaking of the long night. Also parallels how now jon is doing a baby swap with another royal baby only he himself parallels the non-royal baby who’s kinda getting screwed out of his life.

[@blkprophet7685]

I think Young Griff is Aegon and is subsequently killed by Dany. Just my theory

[@ELFBOYMUSIC]

The theory that Young Griff and Sansa are the same person is speculative, but possible. One reason is Sansa's experience with identity manipulation, as seen in her "Alayne Stone" persona. Another reason is the narrative timing, with Sansa's storyline having a gap when Young Griff is introduced. Additionally, there is a possible Targaryen connection through her Stark lineage.

[@oliviawilliams6204]

That is not why Tywin joined Robert. He joined Robert already had won. He sat out the war to see who would win come up on top.

[@fatmaboujenoui3163]

Interesting take! honesty it doesn’t matter people will believe he’s a Targaryen because they are fed up with the mess left by the Bratheon

[@joshowoh9072]

Great video, it’s fresh hearing a different perspective!

[@laurencemaccarthaigh1130]

I really hope he's a blackfyre cause I'm a fan boy of Daemon tbf

[@Pcervelli11]

You make the best arguments I’ve heard so far. I hope he is the real Aegon but I’m not 100% sure. The Kevan Lannister epilogue is the most convincing evidence. Also, there is the vision Dany has of the “false dragon”. I actually think she is the false dragon but obviously she wouldn’t interpret it that way.

[@abelbabel8484]

The cloth dragon vision could also mean that Aegon is legit but doesn't behave like a typical Fire and Blood Targaryen cause he was raised differently. A real Targaryen, but not a dragon personality. Maybe. Or not. Prophecy/dream reading is always so misleading in the books haha

[@rai2423]

You have to be borderline illiterate to think Daenerys is supposed to be a false dragon. The entire dragon part of the story revolves around her. Are you saying George made her bring dragons back and be the only Targaryen left just to pull the rug under his readers? Are people really this delusional? 😂

[@rai2423]

@@abelbabel8484I don’t know man. Doesn’t make any sense. A mummer’s dragon is pretty straight forward. As in something that pretends to be a dragon but is really just made of cloth. Her visions all make perfect sense and are coming to fruition. She also saw the red wedding and something else I forgot that came true. Why would they all be true expect the one about Aegon? Seems a bit too convenient for the wishful thinkers.

[@abelbabel8484]

@@rai2423 Yeah, cause George never ever lets anything bad happen to major PoV characters, and also there's no running theme about trueborn vs. bastardy not being/meaning what they seem. I agree with you that Dany is the real deal, but those arguments were weak.

[@abelbabel8484]

@@rai2423 Uhuh and a prophetic dream about a dragon born at a tourney was also dead straightforward for Daemon II Blackfyre, until he got it completely wrong. "Mummer's dragon" might just as well mean a real dragon raised by mummers (remind me, what was Varys' profession?) as "dragon hatching from an egg" meant a young boy Aegon growing into his role as prince and had nothing to do with the actual dragon egg red herring. Prophecy always bites your cock off.

[@forheavensakes9144]

Why do people think aegon is a blackfyre? Where did that theory come from?

[@sirbooksage]

It's a theory that's been around since the publication of Dance. Since his character came out of nowhere in the story most people believe he's a descendent of one of the Blackfyres. He has the Targaryen look, which many of them do. I think most readers view him as a backup plan to Dany and her brother. There's an interesting Reddit thread from back in 2005 that details the belief he's a Blackfyre.

[@forheavensakes9144]

@@sirbooksage was Dany a part of the original plan though

[@forheavensakes9144]

I will look for it on reddit

[@angelpulido1923]

I think young griff is the son of Illyrio and his second wife that died of greyscale. Who was actually a Blackfyre because only the female line survived after Maelys. And thats why Danny was warned of him being the mummers dragon.