Why Your Drums Don’t Sound Like Your Favorite Recording | Season Three, Episode 49

[@AboutThings_byTarif]

Criminally underrated drum channel and by far my favorite. World class programming guys. Thank you all and greetings from Egypt.

[@michaelbruhl4425]

...you are very, very right !!!

[@ryanwiseman9141]

I was about to use that term too, “criminally underrated”, thanks for beating me to it!!

[@atoms12123]

Fantastic video. This should just be mandatory viewing for every beginning drummer, because I'm pretty sure we all spent a solid period of time (and still spend a solid period of time, even though we know) lusting after drum sounds that are just not there in the room.

[@gregwonhoff7161]

Ben and Cody, this one has a special place in my heart, as I felt cheated when I got a drum set. First, let me give you some background info. I am a 74 year old, self taught, basement drummer. Started out after watching the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1964. I stuck with it for about 4 years and then gave it up after I graduated high school. Fast forward to around 2000 when I pieced together a set and relearned enough to start playing to cds in the basement. This as all as before I ever heard of KZbin so I had nothing to compare drum sounds to, as I didn’t really pay that much attention to the sounds they made, I just played. Then things changed. It’s now around 2019, and I have found KZbin. I was watching a Styx concert and hearing these wonderful thunderous sounds coming from the drummer’s set. I had no idea who he was, but he as soon as I good, and his drums sounded like nothing I had ever heard before. A friend of mine was selling a Mapex set, so I snatched it up, took it home and couldn’t wait to recreate the sounds that came from the Styx drummer’s set. Well, well, well, was I in for a disappointment. No amount of tuning, or dampening, or head changing could even come close to recreating Mr. Sucherman’s sounds. Later, I found out the secret. Yes, I am sure that his Pearl Masters or whatever kit he had sounded great on their own, but even they, without the electronic aids provided, couldn’t match the sounds I heard during the concert. Maybe I was just an idiot, but I thought it was all the drums, as I had zero knowledge of what is produced by a drum engineer. Maybe there should be a disclaimer before a video is played so those drummers not in the know aren’t disappointed as I was. This video should be a mandatory listen to before any new drummer buys a new set. This as a great lesson, and I thank you so much.❤️🙏❤️🙏

[@kas36spires]

I've been drumming for 15 or so years and it took me maybe 7 years to realize my drums didn't sound "bad", they sounded like drums. Really important for us to understand that drums don't typically sound post processed in person. I wasted a lot of time I could have spent practicing on trying to make my gear sound "better". Modern recordings have warped our expectation of how a drum should sound unfortunately, and it discourages many players from improving. Great video 👍

[@matthewcox9636]

I think this was the best episode of the season

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Wow! Thanks for that feedback. We’ve got some more things lined up around this general topic before we wrap up the season but keep an eye out for more in Season Four! -Ben

[@adamwasthefirstman]

This is extremely useful information for drummers in recording situations! All I would add is the most important thing to understand as a player is if you self mix via performance as much as possible and really focus on consistency, the processing of your drums will enhance your sound rather than correct it. This is the biggest difference between a decent sound and a great sound. Even on a less-than-stellar kit! So while you shouldn't be too concerned with making your drums sound like the record, your overall performance is still by far the most important part. Great video!!!!

[@CrowkeeperStudios]

As a studio that is very anti drum sampling, I'm pleased to find your channel. I'm a metal recording engineer from California, and it's become common practice for engineers to replace acoustic drum recordings with MIDI drum samples. 75% of the new metal recordings on youtube playlists are samples. That being said, it's refreshing to see a channel that is focusing on acoustic drums. We need more people to be interested in drums and even more of them to be able to understand their instrument. Half of the reason why people sample over their drums is probably because they don't understand how to make their drums sound good, they don't know their instrument. Keep up the great work!

[@Glurbschnurb]

Every sounds like a drum notification is like Christmas, best patreon dough spent ever.

[@brendanerazo]

For live sound, I will often double patch a kickdrum, or use 2 microphones to create a "boom" and "slap" pair of channels for the kick. This way you can vary the amount of low end, to high end slap/knock to create a range of kick drum sounds depending on the songs' needs.

[@blakecurtis7809]

You got it mang! Add some room mics to the mix and it can get even better. For studio recording haha, I had to do a edit since I forgot you mentioned " For Live Sound"!

[@brendanerazo]

@@blakecurtis7809 Yeah no rooms needed for live but definitely for studio! Unless maybe livestream, which is just studio mix but done live!

[@AdamStachelek]

Instant like. And gotta give props to the unsung hero that is that Pearl Masters kit which has held up incredibly well to all your sonic adventures. It sounds great.

[@joaogaspar9155]

After years of playing, and after starting to worry about hearing protection, I bought a pair of Etymotic earphones (like in-ears, but with a triple flange, for isolation and clear sound). After spending a few hours playing with those I decided to put some earmuffs on top of the Etymotics. Well, I was surprised because the sound you get is almost identical to what you would get with a proper recording. While the earmuffs cut all the highs and let the lower frequencies in, the triple flange cut those lower frequencies, thus creating a very clean and compressed final sound. It just makes me play better in a way, because the sound end up being so "professional" and void of unwanted overtones. Crazy

[@TheRomichou]

This Channel deserves way more subs. The quality is astonishing.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@trollakhinmemeborn3278]

I hate to admit that amidst all those variations, I still prefer the original raw stereo audio sound. Though I completely understand post-production in a band setting, because then the drums aren't the focus, the music is, so it makes sense to tweak everyone and everything. But for just drum solos or whatever else, I really enjoy just the unprocessed stuff. As a beginner drummer still, this all makes me both happy and sad, on the one hand, there's a whole new world of sounds to get out there through processing and such, on the other hand, drums on their own are extremely difficult to make sound good. Especially with cymbals, there's a world of difference between a cymbal sound on a record, and the cymbal between your hands without ear protection on. It's a real struggle to find a cymbal that sounds good without anything, just having it play into your ear, main issue being how long they ring. In a record, a cymbal ride hit is a "swish" and it's gone the next beat, in real life, I can still hear it ring after a solid minute.

[@JeserNoob]

The cymbals (especially a ride) will disappear in a modern mix quickly because there’s other elements to mask the decay and overpower it in volume. Between keys, guitars, vocals, bass and other instruments depending on the song. This happens both in studio and live music

[@kas36spires]

Invest in some dryer cymbals if that's your thing. It's all the rage atm anyway 👍

[@blakecurtis7809]

Dam dude once you added the reverb the snare wires just came to life and brought that sweet, sweet sizzle ear candy. I always added a little to my drum recordings because yeah, it just brings the kit to life. Well done sir well done!

[@mrburpler]

This was really eye opening. As soon as the compression/eq was added I thought the drums sounded worse, almost lifeless. The reverb felt like compensation, like they were trying to bring life back into the drums. It's like the life was sucked out of the drum, just to add "artificial life" in later (side note: doesn't that mean that what you're doing to get the sound you want out of the drum is ultimately pointless, as it's just gonna be edited in post to sound totally different?). I also really like the comment about "perceived volume" as I've tried to play at the same "volume" of newer records that I listen to, to the point were I was destroying my hands. I've since learned NOT to do that and accept that a lot of it is done in post. Thanks for posting this! I really like the "underproduced" sound a lot better. Hopefully it makes a come back some day.

[@Olli3_Morris]

One thing to maybe take into account is how drums appear in an overall mix sound completely different to what they sound in solo. Also trying to achieve the “huge sound” is all in the compression and the drum bus compression where things get “smashed”. Also how you hit a drum is massive and also where you hit the drum. But also the tuning/drum sizes and mic placement all change that. Drums in a room sound completely different to what the mics hear as it’s like sticking your ear right next to the drum. That’s why room mics sound different to close mics and most of what’s in a drum mix is close mics which is why it sounds different to what you hear as a drummer sat above the kit

[@abaker2921]

His EQ/comp seems to.bring up.the cymbals and DESTROY the snare tone. I've watched 10-15 vids of his. Yet to find something i agree with

[@Olli3_Morris]

@@abaker2921 if I’m honest I didn’t “like” the drum sound they had. To be honest if I was going to go for “pro sounding” drums samples would definitely be incorporated in that. And taking samples from the individual kit so there’s no bleed too and processing those individual hits on their own. Making a big drum sound comes from lots compression and EQ moulding, but also reverb and gated reverb. And so to not have any cymbal in your snare hit individual samples are always helpful but also so plugins like smack attack from waves where you can manipulate the attack and sustain (transient designer) basically.

[@abaker2921]

@@Olli3_Morris I prefer the more natural sound of a bigger room, honestly. If I was gonna use samples, I'd just program a beat

[@Olli3_Morris]

@@abaker2921 yeh i think everyone has their own favourite flavours of drum tones. For me, mine is Processed drums tones over more natural big room (bonham) vibes. Depends what sort of music you are trying to make. Honestly there’s a lot of difference between programmed and beat detected (pro tools drum time aligning). I tend to find the hardest place to program is in the cymbal world. Making those feel natural is very difficult. When beat detective is done right where you base everything off the kick and don’t move the overheads/rooms then it feels super natural.

[@OlliLappalainen]

If I ever get to do a high budget record, I'll fly this guy to Finland to be my drum tech.

[@gravittii]

YOU ARE GODSEND! I've searched for this THE DAY BEFORE you dropped this episode. Thanks 😊

[@pjones8404]

I am very old school. I have always preferred the natural sound of a kit. A total kit. Not individual drums isolated but ringing and blending as I like them to naturally do. Some of my favorite drum sounds are done with the simplest and most natural approach. I have always subscribed to the notion that what you have around your kit matters and helps create your sound even if you aren't hitting them. Simon Phillips once said that he sets up his entire kit even if he knows that is too much for the session or the live gig because the interplay of harmonics and resonance between ALL his drums is a huge contributor to the overall sound of his kit. Isolate too much and you loose that natural event. At least in my opinion. The sound of Joe Morello's drums on the Dave Brubeck Quartet album "Live at Carnegie Hall". The sound of Louie Bellson's drums on the Oscar Peterson live album "Live in London". The sound of Mitch Mitchell on the Hendrix albums. John Bonham's drums. Ringo's drums. Drummers like Buddy Rich, Neil Peart, Vinny Appice, Carmine Appice, Ian Paice, Ginger Baker, Danny Seraphine..all sounded live like they did in the studios. I liked that. Not to say I don't love drum sounds that have been "touched up". Some more heavily than others. I do. But those are "manufactured" and when I see those drummers live...their sound is usually very different. As one would expect or they triggered to emulate the sound on the recordings. I heard that Max Weinberg sampled his snare sound from the sound version of "Born in the USA" for live performances because THAT was the sound everyone expected. Phil Collins is a great example. He did some remarkable things to his drums in the studio but for the most part when he played live, it was his natural live kit without many of the post production "tricks" added for the recording. Nothing wrong with that...just an interesting observation. I think the biggest factor..regardless of which area of the spectrum you end up using, more natural or more "modified", it's the tonal qualities of all the other instruments that are going to have a bigger impact on how your drums will end up sounding in the final mix. Having too many instruments in the same frequency range will start to mask or "muddy up" the tracks. Think.."And Justice For All" by Metallica. I promise you Lars Ulrich's drums sounded totally different pre mix phase without all the guitars compressed into many of the common areas of the spectrum. Again...no right or wrong. Just my two cents.

[@jaredmcintosh4178]

It's also important to remember that engineers and sound men can only work with what you give them, so it's important that your drums sounds as good as possible before they ever reach a microphone.

[@321CatDaddy]

Great video! Love your feel and the tuning of the drums, and unlike most channels, there was more instruction than talking!

[@BestOfBixby]

Love the older masters customs.

[@jonashellborg8320]

As always, great video, good food for thoughts and concrete examples. Now, I for one was so happy with lockdown easing in the UK, and I could hear my drums again! Sure, in a month or two I will record sounds again, but right now, it’s all about that sound in the room whilst I’m making noise. How I have missed it!

[@juliocontagro]

This video was what I needed to see, to hear! Thank you guys! Greetings from Curitiba Brazil! 👏👏👏

[@rimshot223]

GUYS!!!! I love your content! It is so good and actually applicable in the real world! Thank You!

[@dbmusic8323]

Excellent video! I've found in post production the best sound for the song doesn't always sound good solo'd but it sounds killer in the mix.

[@billbigler1366]

Very cool lesson. I now also know why my electronic drums through my headphones so different and so much better than my acoustic set. Thanks for posting. Great channel.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

That's another excellent point- those are all samples that have been treated with varying degrees of post production. I wonder if anyone has ever seriously made a raw drum tracks sample pack...

[@billbigler1366]

@@SoundsLikeADrum thanks for your reply. I think Roland, my electronic set manufacturer, and other electronic set manufacturers would not like those raw sounds out there! Keep up the great work.

[@billyyee1618]

I like this channel so much... a real insight into drums... keep up the good work. And looking forward for more.... good day

[@horsemount66]

Gated reverb always drove me nuts until I knew how it was done - Greetings from Tasmania

[@addisoncarpenter5675]

For my personal dream sound I’d like a cross between mark guiliana for his jazz quartet and Tom Hooper on the album visions and vistas!

[@SoundcastStudios]

When I was starting out I kept trying so hard to get my kick to sound like the records. Eventually I learned that it’s impossible since the records have the kick drum with eq.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

This can be a huge struggle that people aren't always aware of. *Everything* will have been EQ'd, mic'd with multiple microphones to produce a specific sound, and then compressed at several different stages in order to create the final version that you're hearing.

[@raphaeldelavie5957]

@@SoundsLikeADrum also saturation, Gate...

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

@@raphaeldelavie5957 Absolutely! There are a multitude of things that can be done to color, control, and generally alter the sound captured in the room.

[@simonbarth3181]

I think there are two basic kick drum sounds that can be archived, that sound like 90% of all modern rock and pop kicks. There is the short smack kind of bassdrum. Sounds like the drums on nevermind and all other heavy rock or metal records. I usually find that a 22x16 with a ported reso, a foam-muffeld batterhead and jaw tuning can sound like that. This can only be played by burrieng the beater though since the tension is so low. The other one is archived by tuning a a lot higher and having a closed reso. Usualy with a ps3 batter head. This gives the bassdrum a very loud tone and a longer sustain. With the closed reso it does have enough bass. It sounds a bit like a 808 bass when you have no muffeling like blanket inside. It works best with a shorter kick like a 22x14 od 22x12. Becouse of the high tension, with this tuning it is almost impossible to burry the beater. I found that most of the time these two tunings are to only ones that sound as loud in a room as on a record. The first one becouse of the hugh sub energy the second one becouse the drum is very loud when set up light this overall.

[@KaiOwensDrums]

Yeah, I have definitely found this to be true as I have started recording. Also, I have found that even though I really like ring in my drums, sometimes it is just too much under the mic and I have to add some dampening

[@joev180]

Well done, really enjoyed that.

[@jamestaylor-mdh-39]

Two questions: 1. What are the frequency ranges you are tweaking? Where do all these bad vibes live? 2. HOW do you manage snare buzz from all those snare drums behind you? I have 6 snares (all disengaged) and they'll start buzzing if I look at them the wrong way. Subscribed!

[@ascendtranscend3812]

I dunno what you went through, bu my heart goes out to you, your a good man

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks?

[@nathansibthorpe1288]

@@SoundsLikeADrum 🤣

[@RorRiiZzLE]

I like your DIY vents on the tom G12’s. I wonder how they would compare to putting on an HD Dry since one head is 2-ply and the other is just a thicker single ply. I would imagine you’re able to bring down the sustain, but still keep all the tone with the vented G12’s. Is there any reason you chose to use G12’s instead of G14’s despite their similarities? Either way, it’d be cool for Evan’s to make a vented single ply head.

[@ISsantos0]

love this channel... this video is so necessary

[@SteveHubbardGuitar]

Great video. Out of context, I honestly much prefer the unmixed drums!

[@SporDrums]

I liked the stereo sound best. Nice, open sound.

[@scottrader6411]

Very much agree with your closing message of embracing ones kit sounds as valid and spending the time to work on and experiment with them. But the actual answer to the video title is samples. It's gone from only the big guys with their personal samples a few decades ago to sample libraries for all, they're everywhere. Seriously, if anyone can point me to one of the top guys "mix like me" videos where they only use the actual recorded kit tracks (not counting like big band/jazz sessions or such) please post a link, I've never seen one.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Even if samples are being included for replacement or support, it's still the same reality- those sounds were captured and processed. The only difference is that they may have been captured completely out of context as one-shots.

[@KaiOwensDrums]

Chris turner and matt halpern I believe have used fully acoustic sounds for A lot of their work. Nolly i’m sure has made some videos about it

[@scottrader6411]

There are some fairly significant differences between an average drum tracking session and the procedures for sample tracking, but that's a deep dive of its own. Drum tuning and recording is such a huge subject, exactly why we're lucky to have resources like this channel nowadays 👍🏼

[@dingerjunkie]

Related, or extension, question. If I'm "tuning for my room/ears, " I regularly get a sound that does not translate well for/to anything but Glynn-Johns-type micing solutions, and most live situations (loud stages) require close micing. How do I balance the battle between open, "pleasing to the ears/room" and tone that will not be overwhelmingly open/sustaining/boomy to close mics?

[@drummercarson896]

I love this so much.

[@leogolive]

There must be something wrong with my ears! On the modern setup the raw drums without EQ, compression, gating and reverb sounded better to me! On the old school setup the raw mono sounded better to me than stereo, but with the audio processing it sounded great as well.

[@TimeNfeel91]

Do you guys know any tricks to get plastic heads to sound more like calf? My military unit plays on plastic but fife and drum music mainly uses calf.

[@amurphful]

I love the channel! This goes without saying, but the characteristics of a players technique aka personal sound are going to have an a big effect on sound, just like gear, and recording techniques. I attribute significant sound differences to conscious choice and personal taste in technique, specifically the host uses traditional grip and plays off the center of the snare. And because I use matched grip and am frequently abusing rim-shots my "acoustic" mix is going to be a lot different and also will effect the sound perhaps even after applying stereo, reverb, compression, and gateing. Perhaps, a sound-engineer would have an easier job if rim-shots werent consistent on the backbeat. Any one agree or disagree?

[@robclaytondrums531]

BRILLIANT 👏🏼

[@adrianlyord5300]

How did you get the holes on the tom heads? Thanks for another great video!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Here’s the episode that details it (Part One with rDavidr’s method included in the description): kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXWyhYaCe8-Lf7M

[@drumjedi5301]

Oooo, good subject matter right here.

[@famitory]

my drums dont sound like my favourite recording because it turns out they had a fixed flanger on the snare giving it inharmonic resonances that are physically impossible for a drum skin to generate

[@AdmiralTom]

"Obnoxious and crazy" aka St Anger

[@jamessandwell3769]

Loooove that gretsch kick. Is it a 20 or 18"? Keep up the good work.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

This one is a 20”, still chasing the elusive 18 :) -Cody

[@megyalilaballad]

What sticks are you using? It’s the only thing not mentioned in the video description.

[@addthisto]

ride details, please?

[@texxhexxmm]

are those air vents in the Tom Heads? G12 Evans ?? ;)

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Yep! DIY: sladl.ink/Episode147

[@addisoncarpenter5675]

First, I love this channel!!

[@The_Other_Ghost]

Personally I always try and get a St. Anger sound.

[@chaddecent103]

I much prefer the sound before the EQ and Compression. I could hear the thick tone of the snare, then I couldn't. Seems like some shit was missing afterward.

[@StraightNoChaser86]

"totally groovy"

[@meekoloco]

That ride is pretty sexy!

[@thezogs95]

I find there is three reasons for this.... 1. Your drums suck and you need to buy more expensive drums 2. Your not using enough moon gels 3. Your not using a copious amount of reverb

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Nailed it.