Why Your Guitar Action is Sabotaging Your Playing

[@brandonacker]

Learn to play classical guitar at home with Brandon Acker 🎸 classicalguitar-pro.com/

[@gregsanders7064]

Is this course for ever, or 12 month subscription????

[@brandonacker]

@@gregsanders7064 you get lifetime access, as it says on the website :)

[@williamstephens9945]

Yay, Brandon and Marshall again! Instant click !

[@MarshallBrune]

This was a blast! I am amazed at how much the guitar improved! Can’t wait to have you back at the shop!

[@JasonCan-wp2fu]

You and Brandon are a great duo!

[@syntaxlost9239]

Was the neck warped? Did you install wider tang frets as a fix? Little bit confused about the cause of the issue. It seemed like the neck had a bit too much relief but it's not made clear in the video.

[@purplelord8531]

I love the buzzing so much but it's clear that's not what you want the instrument to do. fascinating!

[@ricsouza5011]

that much buzz sounds like shit

[@purplelord8531]

@@ricsouza5011 to people used to guitars, maybe

[@themonkeyjuggler1798]

@@purplelord8531 I agree with you. As they put it buzz can really add to certain pieces and play style. My guitar has a nice buzz to it if I play it a certain way. Especially on those bass notes. All about preference

[@KarenPautz]

*Always* happy to see your videos with Marshall. Also, really nice editing on this video -- I love that you played the "before" and "after" clips right next to each other to help us hear the difference.

[@brandonacker]

Thanks, Karen!

[@dr.zither]

Very nice! You made a great point with regards to ease of play vs crisp sound. Thank you for sharing!

[@hehehohohahahihihuhu]

i play an old classical guitar that used to be my mother's, and i never really cared about the set up. then i recently realised how hard it was for me to play especially the higher notes, and wondered about action being too high lol i measured and its like really close to 1 cm!! then today i opened youtube and saw that you just posted about this kinda thing i have been wondereing about recently so i rlly super happy abt this!! yay

[@sinjaja5836]

Good action really makes a huge difference.

[@cainagnascimento]

1cm??? Damn...

[@oldfrend]

@@cainagnascimento how is that even possible? sounds like a bent neck, or improperly constructed. 5mm would be extremely high.

[@rebeccaabraham8652]

Damn - that sounds like my first dreadnought (a Kay - from the 60s)! Got rid of it 45 years ago - and then I learned to set up guitars; I'm just now considering a semi-hollow nylon-strung guitar....

[@gulapula]

stevie ray vaughn of classical guitar over here

[@dewindoethdwl2798]

Love the “battling through” face before set up. Wonderful tone, even with the buzz. Extraordinary change in play character after being breathed upon by the Elves.

[@rochford59]

Yes, set up is critical,the difference between pleasure and absolute pain,nice to see you two guys sharing and caring with your vast knowledge...thanks so much😊👍✌️😅

[@ScottPenick]

The change of seasons, for those of us in climates with substantial swings in temperature and humidity, can often lead to needing a setup to make your old guitar playing like new. Good timing on this video. (related PSA: make a baseline effort to manage humidity and temperature extremes that your guitar is subjected to! could be a whole video onto itself though the practical aspect varies based on climate and guitar)

[@billhallsongs]

Awesome team as always Brandon and Marshall! Thank you.

[@GerdLPluu]

I'm a-ok with a bit of buzz. It adds character, and I can't play a clean note to save my life anyway. :D

[@SethCrowderMusic]

Especially if your into genres like the blues you certainly can't beat alittle twang. I have my nylon guitar tuned down so i can slap it with my thumb and its more clicky if you will, but yeah! Of course if ever you are seeking a clean note, for me it was hard being a beginner sure... But after i had a well setup guitar, it really changed the game for me. Low action and buzzing is honestly pretty rad because its easy to play, but my steel string guitar wasn't setup for the thickness of strings that was on it, and so eventually i put electric guitar strings, and i do quite enjoy its playing, wheras my 12 string steel guitar, well i'm going to have to figure something out maybe hehe

[@wisconsinkraut3445]

Ok not going to lie. I really love the super buzzy sound, maybe more than the "fixed" sound.

[@kinghomerrendon1328]

Time to learn again

[@Temple_of_Passion]

Yes! More videos like this please! 👍🏼👍🏼

[@Cssisabeautifulthang]

I got an Oud. I am cool now

[@poopslappa1661]

There was something nice about the gritty sound of the buzz!

[@conradgittins4476]

Nice work and a great result.

[@jogmas12]

I have a cheap acoustic dreadknot. I switched out the plastic saddle and nut with bone. The sound is dramatically different now. It went from being bright sounding to a more bass sound.

[@mariliavarkaguitarist]

That was actually so helpful and interesting, I'll have in mind to get a setup!

[@olewetdog6254]

Man that thing sounds absolutely amazing. Makes you wonder what it sounded like when it was brand new out of the shop?

[@davidg5898]

Preach, brothas! A good setup can make even a cheap guitar into a decently playable instrument. I've only encountered 2 guitars that were so poorly made that they couldn't be set up (one acoustic that I'm convinced had something wrong with the truss because the action changed every time you tuned it, and an electric whose bridge was factory installed too far back for the saddle adjustments to reach proper intonation and my friend didn't want to spend the money to have a luthier re-place the bridge).

[@paolospadaro]

Grazie, Beautiful Video!!!!!

[@tanyet]

There’s something about the original sound that I liked better. More reverberation and decay maybe. It sounded soulful.

[@operatorverona]

i could see entirely why the reworked action is better but i honestly preferred the sound of it before. that instrument was set up to be dramatic and temperamental.

[@domenicosorrentino1972]

I have to agree with you now the sound is mellow...before, the middle note i cant descive...sounded more like un lamento (crying)

[@BegovicMirza]

Agree, some charm in tone was lost and now sounds a bit sterile and boring.

[@Echinder]

Agreed. It needed some taming. But I think it was tamed too much

[@BrianTruesby]

I wonder how new the strings were in the "after" segment. that's a big factor as well

[@OllavoTozzi]

Loved the concept of a lunch time guitar

[@sinjaja5836]

Great topic. My beautiful sounding guitar is super hard to play, and I can't wait to bring it to the workshop. My left hand is always strained. Have to Work some hours before I can afford that, though 😎

[@veglord4481]

May I suggest you join a guitar/ luthier forum. It may be scary doing work on a beautiful guitar but if its just about the action (?) Adjusting the nut and saddle is in no way permanent if you mess it up. Polishing the frets is also a nice easy improvement. I dont own super expensive guitars, so for me doing some work is just another way of bonding with my instruments. Theres so much help here online, in forums or in books.

[@sinjaja5836]

@@veglord4481 Thanks, Sounds like a good idea. 👍🏻

[@veglord4481]

@@sinjaja5836Wish you a lot of joyful playing! If you decide to do some work on your instrument, it´s always better to do to little than too much. Allow yourself some time to mature with the instrument.

[@mikehoehn1475]

Again, good stuff guys !!

[@resipsaloquitur13]

Great video as usual. And maybe this is beond the scope of this video, but if I may add one topic of note- Intonation is also a part of this. And it has much to do with set-up regarding the bridge, nut, and string length. I never heard this mentioned in this video. Tune, fret the 12th, check tune. If its still in, its good. You can tune perfectly open. However, when you bar a chord, it sounds like gah-bage. Time for a set-up.

[@careyolson3446]

There are so many amazing guitars in this world...so many. Way more than amazing guitar players.

[@CameraLaw]

Having a luthier of Marshall's level in your neighborhood certainly would be the best way to get the best sound out of your guitars. I've mixed and matched string tension and action over three guitars and find that experimenting with those elements in rotation gives me several ways to approach a single piece because, to a large extent, the guitar tells me what to do.

[@droid1008]

I recently got to have a noodle on a Masaki Sakurai Concert J. A guitar from the person currently inspiring me the most in my guitar making. The only instrument I've picked up and within seconds realised why the price tag is what it is. The setup was half of that, being just high enough to avoid buzz, but low enough to make playing that giant bit easier. I was able to get some readings off of that guitar for string height so I'll report back after setting up this year's instrument.

[@MichaelMealer]

Always enlightening.

[@mikaeliby387]

Of course amazing fretwork there! But for people considering this for their guitar my recommendation is that if the frets themselves are OK, and string height is not already too high, I´d start with raising the stable piece just a tiny bit. Cheaper, easier and possibly the same result. That is also something anyone can do at home before bringing it to a real proffessional like you. Maybe a video where you show easy fixes like that would be interresting!

[@brandonacker]

Yes we did a video on the basic setup as well.

[@mikaeliby387]

@@brandonacker Yes, I came upon it just after. There´s the internet for ya ;) Very good stuff all of this!

[@avocadofruitforest2548]

Brandon it would have been more helpful if you included a close up of the action before and after the modification...

[@brandonacker]

With a low action, how it looks doesn't matter. The strings will be very close to the frets. What is important is how it sounds. If the action is very low but not buzzy, that's perfect. If it is low but buzzy, that's not going to work. Usually around 3mm at the 12th fret, 1st string is the goal.

[@oldfrend]

@@brandonacker i think his point is a visual reference for what low vs high looks like for beginners, cuz they're not gonna be able to tell from feel.

[@MarcioSilva-ssiillvvaa]

Wow! Kicking off with Villa-Lobos!! Great!!

[@LostSoulAscension]

I was just recently realizing that the high action on my classical guitar could be making learning tremolo way more difficult for me! I didn't consider it until I realized how much difference the string has when pressed and why my right hand keeps hitting the strings below it, so I'm currently considering that my right hand tremolo was too deep into the strings making it hard to get an easier tremolo.

[@brandonacker]

I personally don't think action (which really has to do with the strings over the frets) effects the right hand. It sounds to me like you just have a right hand technical problem that needs to be resolved with very slow practice. Good luck!

[@2ego]

Villa-Lobos right at the beginning? Are you calling all the brazilians out there??? Amazing!

[@wrtyioo]

I thought the buzzing was a bit cool. But than again, Brandon can make any guitar sound great.

[@docdoc]

That valazques is gorgeous

[@jessearodriguez]

Jesus, the Velasquez almost sounds electric. Must be other-worldly in person.

[@sugar4177]

Please do prelude no 1 full recording 🙏🏽

[@michaelkilgore]

You made it sound beautiful despite the buzz like you said those mids are to die for

[@Alex_Khouri]

That guitar sounded AMAZING once the bad fretwork was fixed! The basses have such great projection and expressive range.... more so than almost any guitar I've ever heard.

[@krehme]

So, how did that happen? How did such a premium guitar get in such a condition? How much would such a tuneup cost? If a dealer purchased a premium guitar and found the setup to be so poor, what would they do?

[@MichaelJazayeriMD]

Excellent video as always. I am curious, does Marshall play the guitar? If so, I am sure everyone will be interested in a little concert!

[@edwardgriffin8092]

I closed my eyes when the "Before" and "After" playing came on, and I would swear that was two different Guitars. (Technically it was 😃😂🤣).

[@rosco1pug]

I found it interesting that all the work (that was featured) was on the frets and fretboard and not the bridge and saddle end, or the neck itself

[@ataturkoglu7550]

I wonder, does tuning down a guitar (like lowering all strings by a half step) require it to be set up again? I am using a such tuning(Apperantly it was common during Tarrega's time) and altough it feels fine there might be some space for improvement that I am not avare of. Any suggestions(or even a requirement) for a setup in this case? Awesome and very educational video by the way. The way the VL etude is played(and the tone!) is just as expressive.

[@brandonacker]

Thanks! I play around a lot with pitch anywhere from a whole step below standard all the way to a half step above. You don't need to get a new setup each time you change but you might have to experiment with string tension. If you want to play at a low pitch you might find your basses start to rattle and you can just put on higher tension basses and that often solves the problem. You can also do a shim under the nut or saddle if the buzz is really annoying.

[@domenicosorrentino1972]

With the before actinon it 'd had been nice to play albinoni g minor adagio like on cellos, maybe because the sound was sorrowful and the sustain enough long as on cellos

[@robinbebbington7063]

A full re fret is a lot more than a setup.

[@EclipseAtDusk]

I’ve had guitars taken from unplayable disasters to playing perfectly for anywhere from $25-500 (depending highly upon context & what needed doing - $500 was a full refret) and never regretted it, any time. I just recently got a good $170 setup on a guitar I’d not been able to play for months, and it was like getting a new guitar again

[@JazzGuitarScrapbook]

3:49 Nigel Tufnell moment

[@GordonPavilion]

Yep! 😂

[@perseus31]

When buzzing is available, it becomes so tasty to play hard notes. Dynamics get more dimension. But buzzing that much ? That wasn't a playable guitar.

[@KibatsuMusic]

buzzing can be a cool effect or style, but buzzing means reduced dynamics since theres a limit to how much a string can vibrate

[@perseus31]

@@KibatsuMusic Sustain helps dynamics too, but too much of it or buzzing ? I would choose little more buzzing since mid and high quality classical guitars already have great sustain.

[@KayakCampingOffGrid]

Great points raised and wow! Just wow, what a difference a setup makes! Yikes that was a dumpster job initially!

[@newgunguy4176]

So, what are the measurements?

[@mikeroman5032]

Can we have a Prelude No 1 Villa-Lobos performance video sometime soon, please and thank you.

[@Patsagilitybits]

I love that guitar.

[@MikeNevill3]

The buzz kinda makes sound ok

[@yrguitar1]

The dream team

[@extreeter]

What about difference in temperature and how you place the guitar when you're not playing it ?? Does it have any effect on the action of the guitar??

[@syntaxlost9239]

A refret (plus planing) isn't cheap though. For a guitar like that Velazquez, yeah, it's nothing compared to the value of the instrument. But for an instrument one order of magnitude more affordable, it's not cheap.

[@brandonacker]

It's cheaper than a new guitar unless your guitar is under ~$1,000.

[@syntaxlost9239]

@@brandonacker Even on a thousand dollar guitar it's dicey. The typical rule of thumb on instrument repairs is 20% of the value. So, you ideally want the guitar to be worth $2.5k at least, or more if you need a few issues addressed. It's also not binary nor always clear cut. I recently spoke to a luthier and we decided against a refret as the problem wasn't so dreadful (flamenco guitar) and he honestly told me it may not lead to much improvement. Can always refret later on.

[@TheBotsra]

Hey Marshall really enjoyed your vids on your channel. Hmm but I can't recall seeing any lately

[@banjoboy01]

I would like to know the actual height of the action before and after

[@imJusta6stringguy]

Stupid question not sure if this is the best video to ask My guitars B string isn't properly intonated. I tune it to pitch and at the octive its about 30 cents flat according to my tunner. none of the other strings are like this the harmonic is still in tune. Is it the string? Is it my guitar? Has anybody experienced this? Love your channel btw keep it up!

[@SethCrowderMusic]

Is it an electric guitar? Because with those you can usually adjust the individual strings intonation But other than that, hmm i'm not sure, it definitely should not be the string though, i hope this helps!

[@vahagnvardanyan]

Just change the string. It means that one part of that particular string weighs more than the other half or maybe the string isn't tense equally in its different parts.

[@imJusta6stringguy]

@@SethCrowderMusic it's a classical guitar but a very strange one. From a company named "ovation". When I got it the intonation seemed fine if memory serves but the action was high. I took it to get a set up and it was fine for a while. But now about a month and some change later I noticed something didn't sound right. I don't have great ears so if I notice it must be a problem. Now I'm wondering if I didn't properly inspect the guitar when I got it or when I got it back.

[@imJusta6stringguy]

@@vahagnvardanyan I'm about to order a new pack of strings and hopefully it takes care of it but I'm a little worried if it's the guitar or if it can be fixed.

[@vahagnvardanyan]

@@imJusta6stringguy If it isn't the string then it is the bridge or/and the nut. A luthier can replace, sand and voice both. A new set cow bone bridge/nut costs around 10-15$. Luthier labor costs much more.

[@insertgoodname4809]

Glad to see the Japanese Anime hair is back and in full force!💇

[@adognamedshinji]

Is it safe to say a guitar can only be re-fretted a couple times? I know nothing about this stuff (just a fan), but it looks like a lot of ebony came off during the sanding process, appearing to make the neck thinner

[@ziadbittar3797]

I am curious what you think about cutaways in classical guitars? Do they really make the sound smaller?

[@brandonacker]

I think guitarists make too big of a fuss about this and mostly don't use cut aways for traditional reasons and not because they tried it and didn't like it.

[@hunterleebrown]

DId you guys have production continuity in mind with wearing the same clothing from Before and After? Your hair also doesn't look like any time has passed. I did notice mic and chairs are situated slightly differently, but I assume time passed between when Brandon first played the guitar and then later after the guitar was serviced. 😀

[@brandonacker]

It was the same day :) we shot the first part in the morning, the guitar was fixed and we shot the 2nd have hours later

[@hunterleebrown]

@@brandonacker I'm impressed a luthier can do all the work in one day! Wow!

[@philipcooper8297]

What do you think of high tension strings to get low action without buzzing?

[@brandonacker]

Increasing the tension of the strings is one way to reduce buzzing since the string will cover less distance with its vibration. However, if you are already using high tension strings, you'll need to get a setup. You can also do simple things like shim the nut or saddle. I prefer very low tension strings so I change the nut and saddle before changing string tension.

[@lumpichu]

To me it definitely sounded better before. Except the excessive buzz.

[@orlandoguitarist]

The obvious question I don't see being asked is what strings were on the guitar before the setup and what strings were used after the setup?

[@brandonacker]

It's not relevant to the buzz problem.

[@orlandoguitarist]

@@brandonacker While I understand it is not relevant to the buzzing, you may notice several people commenting how they preferred the sound quality of the bass strings during the Villa-Lobos prelude before the setup despite the buzzing. Of course, the amount of buzzing before the setup was unacceptable, however, setup is not only about playability - it also has an effect on sound quality. That's why I would be curious to learn what strings were on the Velazquez before and after the setup. After the setup, the bass strings had a little bit of a "metallic" sound. If the strings were brand new, perhaps they just needed a few hours of playing to settle down.

[@MarshallBrune]

They were both a new set of Optima 270 MT strings.

[@AaronSmith369]

Very zen.

[@kithg]

So I have a question- how does a beautiful guitar like that develop that kind of buzz?

[@brandonacker]

Woods move and change over years. Sometimes in a bad direction.

[@elijasuiters9932]

For now, I just play electric because I can adjust it myself. Acoustics are expensive to maintain, and I can't afford to bring mine into the shop.

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

Merci. I looked at your school for ukulele. Hmmmm....

[@cok4043]

Great video, but what I really like to now that beside lowering the neck at body base what the measurement in m/m is on the 12 th fret at low and high E

[@brandonacker]

Normally 2.5-3mm on the 1st string and 3.5-4mm on the 6th

[@guitarricktrue]

I agre, i found my point with 3mm on the first string and 4mm on the six string, i think every player should know make this at home, It's not hard to do.

[@adhikrit5985]

I wanted to ask you like what is the hardest piece you have ever played?

[@brandonacker]

Anything by Bach. The music requires the deepest possible understanding of harmony and counterpoint + the best possible technique.

[@darylfortney8081]

Just setup 3 guitars, 2 acoustic and one classical. Set classical action to 4mm low E 12th fret sounds fine but seems too high? Normal tension strings. What would you set it to? How do you find the lower limit without having to sand it down to the limit?

[@brandonacker]

You can sometimes go as low as 3.5mm for the low E 12th fret and 2.5mm for the 1st string. But 4mm is pretty normal.

[@darylfortney8081]

Where would it start to buzz with normal play strumming style?

[@brandonacker]

@@darylfortney8081 Every guitar is different. Just try and find out. You can always make a shim.

[@franklong6269]

I would be very interested to see how a steel string guitar, like a Martin GPC 16e, Rosewood, is set up by a professional luthier. I own this guitar and it has stunning sound, especially for its price range, but it is difficult to play. Also, I find that some notes above the ninth fret are not as accurate as I would like. I write original songs, and use the guitar daily to practice vocals and guitar work. I have been hesitant to have the action redone because I capo almost all of my songs, and I am very concerned that if the action is changed, when I capo the guitar on different frets, it will buzz. Can a guitar be professionally set up to play well when it is capoed? I have played a LOT of $3,000 - $,6000 guitars, and when I capoed them, they buzzed. I purchased a beautiful Taylor 914e for nearly $6,000 and not only did it buzz when I capoed it on the 5th,7th and 9th frets, it also would not tune correctly. I was floored, I could not believe it. How could Taylor send out a $6,000 guitar that was almost un-tunable and that buzzed on nearly every fret when it was capoed. This is their highest end guitar that is not custom. I sent it back with a recording of the problems and the vendor sent out a replacement, and it buzzed even worse. I simply could not believe it. Conversely, my Martin GPC 16e Rosewood guitar has an absolutely stunning sound, and it doesn't buzz when I capo it. It was also $4,000 less than the Taylor 914e. However, the action could be improved and sometimes high notes at the 9th fret and above (I play all over the fretboard and this is a cut-away guitar style that allows easy access to the upper frets). Can a pro luthier improve the action on my guitar and not make it worse. Remember, it cannot buzz when I capo it. Typically I capo the 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th frets for various songs to match my vocal range. If you have some advice, I would greatly appreciate your input on improving the action on my guitar. Thanks.

[@mikehoehn1475]

String height at the 12 fret ?? Everyone says 4. And 3 is best. I'm old, lower is better. Thanks !

[@brandonacker]

As low as possible without buzz. Usually that is around 2.5 to 3mm at the 1st string 12th fret. Around 3.5 to 4mm on the 6th string

[@SoheilSalavati-sy7id]

Please review Alhambra guitar

[@sixtieralone]

I noticed that they played the guitar much more horizontally compared to typical classical positioning in this video Does anyone know if there's a particular reason for that?

[@brandonacker]

Just because I'm used to playing luted these days and sit cross legged as opposed to using a guitar support.

[@Randyball711]

Is there any way I can get a setup with similar effects for my hands? Asking for a friend..

[@timmallard5360]

What size frets did you choose?

[@albertusdrostable]

The Villa Lobos part did not sound that bad...

[@beovulf7241]

It's like it has some distortion which can be a very nice touch! More aggressive.

[@MagicChinaMan]

Hey, quick question. I have a steel string acoustic guitar. To do your course, do I need to get a classical nylon strong guitar?

[@brandonacker]

Hi! Yes, I talk about this in the first lesson of the course. You can take my beginner classical guitar course (classical guitar pro) on a steel string acoustic guitar. I recommend in the course upgrading to a nylon string when possible (don't put nylon strings on the acoustic, however) but it is mandatory. You will still learn everything the course teaches and play a full recital of music by the end :)

[@IsaacLausell]

Would you recommend normal or high tension on a setup like this?

[@brandonacker]

I use low tension. If the guitar is buzzy, raising the tension is one temporary solution. If the action is high, lowering the tension lessens the problem.

[@kiekiek]

Why my playing technique is sabotaging my playing?

[@thegeetarmann]

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@kant20045]

What you say about flamenco players is not exact

[@bigsarge2085]

✌

[@banjoboy01]

what lute style uses buzz?

[@brandonacker]

bray lute kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWPPgpWOna6Hgrs

[@banjoboy01]

@@brandonacker thanks for the link, I've watched Bor Zuljan he's excellent but I thought he was just experimenting, some day I'll get to a lute festival

[@thekingofcats27]

The oud looks a lot like a classical guitar