Do Not Use This Talent. Rage is LIMITED!!

[@WickGaming]

I read a few comments stating 4-second cycles on 1000 rage commanders are possible. Actually, they aren't. The maximum rage you can potentially accumulate in 4 turns is 880. 5-second cycles would be the minimum number for 1000 rage active skills. How to calculate the rage cycle: the TURN 1 will be your active skill cycle. The FINAL TURN will be the turn BEFORE your active skill is fired off. Example. I have the primary commander casting the Active Skill on turn 10 and on turn 17. This means that my Rage Cycle was 7 turns long: 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. Turn 10 is counted, turn 17 is NOT counted. I also see other comments discussing about garrisons and rallies. That is not strictly the topic of the video, because we are speaking about field buffs (Trajan, Joan, William etc). Very rarely you have a murderball so close to a rally for a long amount of time without the enemies swarming your rally and killing you off. Or you killing them off and therefore stopping the battle on the field and continuing with structure reinforcements only. It is obvious that a rally MAY have more benefit from a Feral Nature talent compared to an open field fight. But you will NEVER take that talent anyway, because at that point you will need to invest in Conquering talents, too. We have 74 talent points only, we need to make the most productive choices. About the garrison, the widespread ones are: Richard, Charles, Constantine, Zenobia, Jadwiga, Amanitore, Theodora, YSS... I don't see any of those having a SKILL talent, so I cannot really evaluate such a scenario (yet). About the commanders with SUPPORT talent tree, well, Rejuvenate there is a real problem and I will discuss about it in a follow-up video. Let's say you win and you gain 100 base rage. Rejuvenate will give you 150 rage after each skill. So anyway 30 rage will ALWAYS be wasted. But you will of course have also 18 extra rage per turn from the BRT (Base Rage Talents - Burning Blood, Razor Sharp, Undying Fury...), so it means that in a victory situation you will ALWAYS waste 48 rage from the Rejuvenate (support tree ONLY, not the one from the SKILL tree). It means that 1/3 of that Rejuvenate always goes to waste. Even more if you are losing and therefore gaining more rage. This, without even considering other factors. I will address this issue very soon. Thanks for all the nice and constructive comments. I see most of you agree with me but that's not why I make videos. I can be wrong, too, that's why I always try to read all the comments and compare my own findings with yours. Never stop testing, don't trust anything people say (me included)! Hugs, Wick

[@WendellTmA]

They probably arent counting the turn when it activates,bcs it goes out 1 turn later,right?!

[@WickGaming]

@@WendellTmA Probably some aren't counting the turn in which the skill fires as turn 1 for rage accumulation, yes.

[@WendellTmA]

Hey Wick,do another video talking about skill dmg,if there is a limit for that kind of bonus and etc... i got curious about this kind of stuff now hahaha

[@LinjaFlu]

You need to go back and do some probability testing. As you can see the max rage gain is capped at 220 per turn and the shortest skill cycle for majority of the commanders are 5 turns. Here begs the question, does 5 turns skill cycle happen at a very consistent rate? Another question - do you get your proc on rage talent such as feral nature or even horn of fury every turn? I can tell you that you are missing the point because in terms of probability, each of the proc adds another chance for you to max your rage gain in that skill cycle. The battle system is dynamic and you really should do some more testing and see if you are actually reducing your skill cycles overall in all situations. Key point is you want to overage every turn because that means you have maxed out your rage gain every turn.

[@TETT.]

any r4 online? please add talent reset in shop. thanks.

[@WickGaming]

I think this is the wrong comment section for that XD

[@pavelt.104]

@@WickGaming No no he got a point XD

[@Saba_YE]

Hahahha

[@slayerrok1078]

You got my like 2 good

[@jamesbrown2054]

This comment is a levl 9 gold node

[@OmniarchOfficial]

They should remove rage cap for specific game modes like Champions of Olympia just to see how broken and chaotic it can get hahahaha nice video man!

[@WickGaming]

Mmmh I highly doubt there will be a modification of the base mechanic for a separate game mode, but who knows! Thanks bud for watching the video :)

[@jojomunz4790]

got a mathematician and one physicist in our kingdom who coincidentally are german as i am. Both still approve of feral nature insofar as theyre convinced that having the maximal amount of different rage sources are the way to go, like as many puzzle pieces as possible. Obviously they didnt know about the existing rage cap which is why I cant wait to enlighten them by showing your video. Thanks for the dedication Wick! Greetings from Germany.

[@jonr4164]

yeah basically its like a fkn car. do you want to have the revs almost on the limit and throttle your gearbox, so you always at max revs or would you rather get more mileage.

[@eumine8228]

Did they also know skill damage depends on the troop count? A troop defense or health increase actually makes that skill doing more damage over the whole fight. Bonus the normal attack damage increase. Don’t put the points in rage just because everyone says so.

[@radupatriche184]

Probably one of the clearest videos about rage mechanics in the entire RoK community. You are displaying a lot of solid evidences which are bulletproof. Thanks, Wick!

[@WickGaming]

Glad you enjoyed it, Patriche! Cheers

[@dep7311]

This simple video can change everything. Keep doing this kind of videos because this is a rare opportunity to understand thoroughly the micro-mechanics of the game. i am surprised of this rage cap that i thought you could achieve a rage engine in less than 5 seconds but maximum would be at least 8 seconds. Thank you for this video! It has truly gave me insight now

[@diegofernandez3230]

This is a crazy effort. Very well done and thank you for giving us this knowledge, because you’re the only one doing this

[@WickGaming]

I appreciate that!

[@ravindran5]

Damn this is really a very insightful video to begin with. I didn't thought the max rage we can accumulated is 220. Welp I just learned something new.

[@AhmedHassan-dv2wc]

Good job bro U r in a special spot of ROK for understanding all the alternatives of this game Hats up💯

[@WickGaming]

Thank you so much 😀

[@pbblbnk5211]

I started doing some testing about rage 2 days ago and came to the conclusion that the support talent tree is bugged because it should only need 6 turns with the 18 rage from talents and rejuvenate, but it actually needs 7. I was still waiting for the support to answer so thanks for informing us about the 220 rage limit. Now I only need to know if Leo‘s 2nd skill affects just the 100 base rage each turn or other rage sources asell.

[@evil_apple_of_doom6409]

After tests with barbs it looks like Leo give 115 Rage per turn.

[@innocentmiau3536]

It only affects the base 100 rage gain.

[@serenson923]

Rejuvenate only happen after skill activate

[@AquilaGamingYT]

Leo 2nd skill is base on “Round” in their initial rage generation system, be simple if which commander pairs with Leo, there should be faster 1 second = 100 rage.

[@johnquedi01]

I agree on your analysis in open field fighting with many marches buffing each other. Feral nature is more viable if in a one vs one scenario.

[@WickGaming]

Yes. And one vs one scenario it's not really ROK, so in 99% of the cases Feral Nature will result wasted in open field

[@johnquedi01]

@@WickGaming If Feral Nature at maximum of 100 rage is too much, do you think putting in just 1 point for 20 rage is more beneficial?

[@fabiogravano2115]

Feral Nature is good for duels during KE… casting the silence with Guan before the opponent it is a huge advantage. For sure not raccomanded for massive field fights.

[@WickGaming]

Today's topic might be a bit boring to follow, but I still hope it's something that interests you :) join the discussion on Discord ► discord.gg/wickgaming One more thing: I am assuming that the base neutral rage is 100/turn, but actually it could be anything between 100 and 111.(1). I will run more tests in this regard.

[@ИванЛи-х1н]

Normal attacks are both attack and counterattack. Reading talent adds not 3 rages per move but 6.

[@dksun]

@@ИванЛи-х1н Counterattack doesnt generate rage.

[@dksun]

I understand you do not like RNG and wasting rage. However, saying Feral Nature is the WORST sounds very biased on your part. A random one turn early skill is very helpful IMO.

[@pepehands3844]

Hi Wick, I was thinking since 3 rage per turn is too much what if u used a commander with attack/defense tree that gets 2 rage when hit? It may be able to reduce the variable rage compensation. Regardless amazing video, extremely insightful from all RoK community that try to optimise thank you

[@noobatredstone3001]

How do my green commanders cast their skill on 12th turn then?… (fighting a barbarian)

[@shirohige122]

Thx for your time and your work to explain everything in a accurate way! I really appreciate it :) keep it up=)

[@santiago.nogales]

Why that rage limitation is not in any description or tutorial in the game? Im pretty sure I got toasted on kvk 1 with my talent tree builds. I used to go all in in rage in Baibars, Kusonoki, Sun Tzu, Pelagius, even Boudica. We should have a compensation from Lilith

[@smoovjazz8029]

Awesome video! I've done a bunch of tests over time and I've found feral nature is fine if you're hitting it like, say, in the first few turns of a fight to get the one turn jump but yes largely ineffective. Sometimes it needs like 3 feral nature procs just to hurry one turn. I'm also running a major rage machine murderball so yeah I thought maybe it was something to do with the law of diminishing returns trying to make my rage cycles even shorter but this makes perfect sense. In essence, that diminishing return is in fact the rage limit per turn. Great to know thanks!!

[@bloodsun2808]

Many thanks! For me personally, you are the most interesting RoK youtuber. Best wishes to you

[@neox1v699]

Wick, based on this new finding.. I think we need to reset all talent builds. I mean if 220 is the rage gen per turn I believe with the horn or other accessories, with pairing such as YSG or any rage gen comms we will need to better optimise the talents taking into account such factors. I think it's not just feral nature, I think even rejuvinate is redundant with the Horn in place.. Just my opinion.

[@PsychOutROK]

Great video! I love it. One question / comment, I wonder how rage debuffs that your enemy might have (e.g., Silent Trail, Boudica support skill in HA), might factor in to this. For example, say you build so that you can get 220 rage per turn when losing (because you know that's your cap), but they are using rage debuff skills, you might wish you had a different build. Just something to think about.

[@WickGaming]

Good question. It's the total rage you can accumulate that turn, not considering the debuff. I should have clarified this point, maybe I'll keep it in mind for future content :)

[@hezhang8843]

I have a question. Since there's the rage compensation mechanic does that mean Leo's rage speed buff can stack with it? The compensation triggers for the losing side and Leo gets stronger when he's low health, now it makes sense on how Leo is designed.

[@WickGaming]

Yes, that aspect of Leo will of course work well. It won't boost the other buffs, though, just your base rage accumulation.

[@lilreginald01]

Does that mean Leo can accumulate 15% more rage per turn increasing the rage cap from 220 to 253? Or does it increase the base rage per second going from 100 to 115 if you're winning and 140

[@Eleiem]

Best rok content I've ever seen. I'd like a follow up tho. If when we losing only 3 extra rage from talents is enough to shorten the cycle by 1 turn, is there a point to get the extra talents to make it extra 6/9 rage, let alone 18? And what about when we winning? Think is this the most important topic ever discussed when it comes to the game mechanics

[@WickGaming]

It is important, consider rage reduction effects from commanders, or equipments (silent trial). You can always use those little bits of rage

[@WickGaming]

Besides, you won't always be on the losing side

[@dmitryp704]

@@WickGaming we still always need a multiple of 5 so I think that at least one extra 3 rage talent is not necessary, total 15 rage from talents will be enough

[@taexco.2111]

wow! that's an important revelation. Lilith should compensate us with those "WASTED" rage!

[@SharrysHood]

I think you have forgotten that a lot of commanders can reduce your rage gain. You need the extra rage to compensate for that. This is especially important for XY chandra rallies, for example, against Amanitore, if you want to stack Chandra's buff with the next skill cycle. In a rally situation, you are also unlikely to be having all the field buffs you mentioned. Add in silent trial swarms and so on, and in my humble opinion, the talent is not as useless as you say, particularly under circumstances where the skill cycle length is crucial (mostly XY). However, I wholeheartedly agree that feral nature is not as good as the other +9 rage per turn talents, because they add up to roughly the same average rage gain, with zero RNG, and with only 3 talent point investment as opposed to 10.

[@WickGaming]

Yes, yes, there are many things that reduce the rage but also other things that will stop it. YSG can increase his own rage, same thing as Cao Cao and other commanders. While there are silence effects who can prevent some commanders from reducing your rage (of course it's not the case of Amani, being her immune to silence). There are so many variables. There is no doubt that Feral Nature has SOME benefits, but most of those benefits are wasted, especially because of the 10 talent points to get there. Better use and better results if you pick other stuff

[@DeusDarth]

Great video, thanks for all the time and work you put into these testings. Helps people out a lot! But I really have to say that I hate that Lilith dont even offically inform us about the rage cap for example.. shouldnt be too problematic to give a little information button at the commanders page for these kind of things. To give that information by via VIP support makes it redicilous in terms of fairness since most of the people would never know.

[@WickGaming]

That’s why I’m here trying to spread the message

[@WendellTmA]

Holy sheet man,ur videos are incredible,thanks for all that explanation,i mean,prolly everybody used full skill tree but the firing skill workd exatcly the same way,bcs it has a limit,thanks so much.

[@scarmad2203]

You keep improving your content! Congrats to the best rok content creator

[@deathtod9599]

I have a question: if you can choose between Feral nature and another (non rage generating) accessory or an rage generating accessory whit other talents as feral nature.... What is a better joice? Because the rage generating commander are not always there because they are focused... Or the equipment cost that you safe whit feral nature

[@Zenith_36]

I have never actually never heard of a maximum rage cap that you could attain until i got xy and wanted to get him the fastest rage build that their is. After testing feral nature will be necessary for the fastest skill cycle in a duel scenario which is 5 but in big murderballs i have to agree with you that feral nature seems like a perfect to be true scenario and everyone gets baited into using it. Great video 👍👍

[@bboysamadt]

Wick Gaming for President!!! Great content man! keep that good work

[@nilswahlberg121]

I had no idea about the cap! Thank you!!

[@WickGaming]

Happy to help!

[@joei8236]

Although I didn’t know the rage cap per turn, i assumed it to be somewhere around 150-200. I insist NOT promoting feral nature with the exact theory years ago. Same reason I don’t recommend people making horns over rings. Bring me back the Arguments that I had with numerous players in the last three years. Now, instead of wasting 30 minutes talking to cows, I can just link your video. Thank you for being informative and proving my point.

[@rnsc8342]

Brilliant. The question is why on earth have any rage compensation factor. It just rewards those without talents and penalises those who bothered to get them or picked commanders to maximise active skill effects. Again it hits the middle ranking players who rely on their wits in talent grinding and commander selection- whilst leaving those who bump up their ability to fight - by buying legionary equipment and VIP combat augments - to stomp on them.

[@WinnieThePooh122]

Hey Wick, its well known that Zeno or Saladin have a 6 second rage cycle. during 4 turn, they gain 118 rage from the talent trees+ base rage. this adds up to 472 rage. this means, that in the other two turns, they need to get at least (1000-472)/2 =264 rage. this means the 220 statement cannot be true.

[@WickGaming]

This has been confirmed multiple times by Lilith. I will test in Garrison situations, if that's what you are talking about

[@WinnieThePooh122]

@@WickGaming i just did a quick test with saladin/minamoto on barbs and got a 6s rage cycle. id be glad if you could test it out yourself though, always good to have multiple people testing

[@WickGaming]

@@WinnieThePooh122 Are you 100% sure of what you are saying? Because I never get that 6s cycle you are talking about. You need to count the turn in which you fire the Active skill as turn 1, you are maybe starting from the following one. Whatever commander I use (support, with rage buffs, I always get 7s cycles)

[@WickGaming]

(on 1000 rage requirement commanders - in other situations it might be different, for example Xiang+GK)

[@WinnieThePooh122]

@@WickGaming I just did some more tests with saladin and youre right its a 7s cycle. Sorry about the hassle, it was late yesterday. i also tested with just 2/3 on rejuvenate and still got a 7s cycle, then i tested with 1/3 and got a 8s rage cycle. This is a further indication of a quite low rage per turn limit. so is the normal zenobia yss cycle also 7s and if people get a horn procc on the off skill turn they can reach a 6s cycle?

[@pokerchannel6991]

Dear wick: there is a rebuttal to the feral nature question. May I try to forward a compelling reason for feral nature and for the horn. These days, as people get better, fights involve a lot of maneuvering and moving. Engagements are short bursts. The first skill cycle is a very important cycle. Feral nature and horn can cut the time needed to get the first cycle to fire. Often time, one cycle is all you get. This period of time is free of rerjuvenate, and it is a the time where cycle takes the longest. So, feral nature and horn does come into play. You multiply this by the number of times that you are engaging and disengaging, pretty soon, you realize that feral nature and horn plays a fairly significant role. : ) It may not be a waster, after all : )

[@IronFatherJohn]

The only commander I ever do feral nature on is Edward because he has a higher rage limit.

[@mrhollywoo77]

As always, Wick gaming videos bringing the HEAT. awesome job, thanks for this! This information will have a huge effect on how we think about rage, talents, and gear. I did confirm with VIP (screen shot on discord) that rage reduction skills / equipment reduce the TOTAL rage, not rage under the cap. So, if you're up against Nebu or Amani or anyone with Silent Trial(s), over-raging provides a buffer. For example, if you gained 250 rage in a turn and got hit by Silent Trial, you're total rage that turn is 200 (250 - 50), not 170 (220 - 50)). This means there CAN be a benefit to over-raging. Significant amount of chance is involved of course, but that's also true of the possibility of going OVER the cap (see below). And, in a long rally situation, with Nebu and Amani both part of meta combos right now, that chance could be meaningful. I think the bottom line for any rage-based analysis though is whether, generally, having the talent or the equipment will cause your march to fire off the primary skill earlier than it would without the talent or the equipment. And to be valuable it doesn't have to do that EVERY skill cycle. Every other cycle, or maybe even every three or four, could be really significant in a rally/garrison situation. That your talent/gear set-up might create a risk of over-raging in any one turn has to be balanced against the possibility that a talent like Feral Nature or equipment like the horn might proc on a different turn, and just 1 or 2 procs might be enough to cause you to fire off your skill 1 turn earlier from time to time.

[@WickGaming]

Hey there, can you please send me a screenshot about this ASAP on Discord?

[@lagerbeer7369]

Guan - 100 rage + 18 from undying fury and burning blood - 118 guaranteed rage. Using joan 5 turns @ 158 and 3 @118 Joan + horn - 30% chance of 208 or 168 Using feral nature gives a 10% chance of giving 100 rage. There is a small chance the rage is wasted when it hits with joan & horn. Otherwise you are getting a great benefit.

[@lagerbeer7369]

There is a bigger chance of feral nature landing when it does give great benefit than not. Unless I've missed something.

[@WickGaming]

Hello there. Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I’m not going to make a full calculations for different scenarios, but you are missing many pieces of the puzzle here. Who is the secondary commander? Leo? YSG? Leo will give you extra 15% base rage each turn, YSG has a 10% chance of granting 100 extra rage. Then you missed out Rejuvenate, which is 60 extra rage on turn 1 and 3 (skill primary commander - skill secondary commander, assuming turn 1 = active skill cast). It means that on a regular cycle: Turn 1: 100 + 15 (Leo) + 18 (BRT) + 60 (Rej) = 193. And you are assuming you are winning the trade, otherwise it’s 122/124 instead of 100 and you are already looking at 215/217 on turn 1. Turn 2, everything without Rejuvenate, so 133 if winning and 155/157 if losing. Turn 3, same as turn 1 Turn 4 going forward: same as turn 2. Now in THIS scenario find the space for Joan + Horn + Feral Nature. In most of the cases, a big chunk of that talent will be completely wasted. Ok, there are enemies who reduce your rage. But there are also other factors not accounted. Maybe another Joan in the murderball buffing you another time in the same cycle. Or a Trajan. Or a William that can stack on top of that. Or imagine a Nebu/YSG, with YSG having the chance to proc 100 rage with the second skill. Basically having a second Feral Nature… I hope this gives you an idea of what a battle can look like in reality and why I think Feral Nature is a waste of talents. I tested many times in controlled murderballs and that talent never gave me the same benefits I could get from saving those 10 points and spending them somewhere else.

[@lagerbeer7369]

@@WickGaming I was referring to Guan / Alex so I discounted Leo's rage buff I should have specified. Now adding in another turn from rejuvenate ok fair enough. In most cases you will be on the winning side as you will be swarming someone with 5 marches. Unless your hanging on in it really is time to refresh. Buffs from other Joan's and Trajans won't really apply in most cases as they only buff your own marches assuming you still have 5 in the field. It's just my humble opinion but I still see a massive benefit of 100 rage landing with the overall RNG nature of the game.

[@lagerbeer7369]

Guan for me is all about that skill popping off, anything that aids that skill firing as see as a benefit.

[@therealronswanson]

wick you are a legend. by far the best content creator for rok. you should have chisgules subcribers and vice versa, thats how much better you actually are.

[@razor8507]

Thanks for the valuable testing and info wick !

[@Arucard.Hellsing]

I was months and months said not to put talents on feral nature, but some people don't listen. Now I have the evidence for I was right about it. Thanks John for the video.

[@rajinto2002]

And what about latent power ? :)

[@marcusgaming7114]

That means rejuvenate only gives 120 rage or 102 rage if you have the other two talents which give 18 rage per turn. This makes the horn less useful for support tree commanders, since the rage is wasted if it’s on a turn with rejuvenate. Horn and support commanders doesn’t seem worth it. There’s too few of turns where the horn is helpful, and it takes 2 horn procs to make decrease the skill cycle by 1 turn.

[@AlexanderMullenders]

Real interesting video. Could you advise on better talent trees for the commanders it concerns?

[@Writeous0ne]

great video as usual, great testing and insight into the game mechanics. i too have never liked feral rage and when tested, non-feral rage builds are better. also i prefer talents which apply for the whole battle not just by chance.

[@pokerchannel6991]

awesome! I just got Ed. I am in SOC. Rage is impt for ed. I purposely got Ed because he fits in my murder squad very well. And he needs rage.

[@PitBull78q]

Very beefy content. Very smart and worthwile. Keep it up Wick you doing it extremly well

[@WickGaming]

Thanks, will do!

[@felixs3109]

Amazing video, I don’t know how you do it wick! You really love math!

[@WickGaming]

Yes I do!

[@georgepang91]

It is possible that it's just a 20% flat compensation factor. The extra 2-4% could be because that you have gained more "base" rage from the talents resulting in higher multiplier for the rage compensation. You can test this by using more flat rage talents if it goes up to 25 or even 30%

[@WickGaming]

Nope, we tested without any BRT (Base Rage Talents). Just statistics. And we also tested without talents. No difference in the compensation

[@kennethnewman5522]

And of course they don't just tell people this stuff. Thank you, Mr. Wick.

[@texascpa]

Wick provides the math, the explanation of rage compensation, the talent point cost, the ROK support confirmation of rage limitation, and you still have people downvoting this video. Unbelievable.

[@WickGaming]

I am happy with people like you supporting the channel. Everyone is entitled to other opinons. It's fine to dislike the video! If I notice any mistakes, I will be happy to rework my content and provide you guys the best I possibly can

[@DMITRIYCR_1365]

Thanks for the video, it's a lot of work, finally I know more about rage, thanks again John Wick)

[@davidzhong7477]

I use infantry, so I always go for march speeds in talent. I might be weaker in canyons, but it significantly affects my survival rate in battle fields

[@smeg3519]

Nice work Wick. You are the doctor of ROK

[@WickGaming]

Wow, thanks

[@diegogavrielabellanosa4950]

Lol I really fell asleep from 8:30-10:00 😂

[@Liubei5102]

This video taught me something new today thanks for the lesson

[@augustusromana3828]

Awesome!! Another very educational video by Wick!! Woot!!

[@WickGaming]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@almasha5203]

Nice video, I just want to ask if each round can only reach 220 rage, doesn't it still work from the feral nature calculation? especially if against a commander who has debuff rage 🤔

[@scandelouzintent7738]

Haha! I already knew this just couldn’t explain it like you did. Awesome man thank you!

[@WickGaming]

Happy to help!

[@HajlenderW]

same here.. i dont use feral nature for years.. i knew it doesnt work.. at least with my commanders/talent tree etc so i forfeit to use that talent.. but your explanation and testing Wick is awesome.. i love all your math/stats videos but this one is really like from another universe.. hats off mate!

[@kneecap9927]

Thing is you get less rage when you're not taking NA so when you're swarming, this doesn't matter because likely 4 out of your 5 or 6 of your 7 marches will not be getting less than a 6 rage cycle anyway tbh. Basically it doesn't matter

[@jaycruz3690]

Does this mean i should avoid crafting a second horn? 🤔 which between my XY and trajan should equip?

[@TienNguyen-en2bp]

very helpful video as usual. Thanks brother!

[@AxonIsBored]

Thankfully I only have Feral nature on my epic commanders. You are a godsend my friend. Ciao

[@WickGaming]

Glad to help

[@delando4292]

@Wick Gaming Have you noticed that only the first attacker generates 100 rage per turn? All subsequent attackers generate less than 100.

[@Spiral232]

What about the common situation of swarming a target and most of your marches are only taking counterattack damage? The base rage generation is a lot lower here on those marches not being targeted.

[@WickGaming]

In general, the benefit of using Feral Nature over something else is very little, I'd prefer using my points somewhere else

[@tylerborg8000]

So the losing side is only determined at the start of the battle? Does that mean whoever is losing at the start will have increased rage the whole time?

[@stitch6173]

I think there might be one exception here and that is for XY/Chandra rallies, where you almost need Feral nature even with a horn to have Chandra damage boost overlap with XY skill on a consistent basis. Did you ever test this out? What is the percentage of overlaps with no Feral nature? And of course this means no Trajan or Joan close to rally to buff it.

[@WickGaming]

The Horn is enough, it all depends on how the battle is going. Feral Nature is not really relevant in any case I have tested over time

[@stitch6173]

@@WickGaming interesting for sure. I guess will also test it out. :) One thing I have seen is that I definitely overrage sometimes with XY/Khan, no Feral Nature but critted horn. Depending how often horn procs I already overrage

[@mailmars]

I am also going to have to do some math on this. This combo I always thought was the one combination that the talent was worthwhile.

[@bhiihunt6223]

solution to every problem, you are amazing.. thanks for informations.

[@miguelantonioc.aquino6185]

Can I ask a question what do you mean limited useless? Because I don't know if I use rage talent to my YSG talent that's why I don't know what to do please tell me

[@buniqle5583]

wow dude nice vid it was so helpful👌👌

[@eumine8228]

You cracked me up with the gathering talent being more useful than feral nature. I don’t see Janes at all on the battlefield, not in the same time as Trajans or Williams, but still I am never taking it. For 10 talent points I may get 100 rage in 10 seconds !? That’s so irrelevant anyway, there are better options in the talent tree. Now that I know there is a 220 cap I’ll think twice before adding rage equipment in favour of other equipment more useful.

[@dinonano602]

After 1000 days playing we got the answer 😂 turns out winning/losing affects rage regeneration and max rage is 220/ noted 👍

[@snowgaming00]

Wick. How about rage debuffs? Like Nebu etc. Is it maybe worth then? I mean what happends when you get 380 rage a turn and the enemy debuffs 100 u still get max points while if u get 220 u are debuffed to 120. Is this correct?

[@waltercariani4.20]

Mr. Wick, so the Horn of Fury loses the value when it comes on Openfield, right? Because of all commanders buffs, etc. But how about a Rally Scenario? Do you recommend Horn, or dagger and ring of doom? In case of Gilgamesh/Nabu, for example.

[@WickGaming]

Rally and Garrison are lonely marches, rarely supported by buffs, so yes, horn is very valuable there

[@waltercariani4.20]

@@WickGaming thanks!

[@adam-adambomb-vandyke9949]

Love the content... and always explained... love the scientific to the channel....

[@christophergomes7076]

So do u lose ever fight because if your winning the fight wouldn't u want to add rage since your enemy is raging as more aswell

[@john2g1]

Good morning Mr. Wick... If you are currently checked in at the New York Continental... We need a follow up video for those of us who use garrison skill commanders in cities and strongholds. Kusunoki, Sun Tzu, and Pelagius are the most popular starting commanders for City Garrison and two of the three generate rage within their own skill set. This feral nature always wasted then? Is feral nature only wasted when the city is surrounded? Is feral nature wasted when the city is surrounded, the talents are enacted, and Sun Tzu is hitting multiple targets? Thank you for joining The Siege Workshop. Is there a link for your Patreon so I can be a financial patron of my crazy questions?

[@WickGaming]

That is another topic, I spoke about Open Field mainly here, other topics are worth exploring. Talent trees in general require us to be flexible and ready to change when the situation requires. Your question is surely material for other observations, thanks. Btw, I don't have a Patreon link, sorry. You can support me just with a like and by sharing the video. Or there is the donation link in the description :) please don't feel that you need to donate your money, it's not necessary

[@miguelantonioc.aquino6185]

Can I ask a question you have YSG commander can you create a video for YSG best defense garrison and not use rage because you said rage is useless

[@madness3822]

Thanks man really greatful for this !

[@WickGaming]

Glad you liked it!

[@madness3822]

@@WickGaming Always 👌🏼 !

[@slayerrok1078]

Good video! Like, ty for the information

[@WickGaming]

Glad you liked it!

[@mohmat7042]

as usual very good content ...I really do not like funeral nature now my question is how much rage we can gain with ( exam guan talents ) all rage talents without any rage buff commanders and without rage accessories .....its gonna be over 220 rage per turn ??

[@jrow3143]

I see primary commander used active skill on turn 10 and 17, which is basis for your argument. Did I miss where the secondary commander comes in? Will they not be using a skill between turn 10 and turn 17? That is another 1000 rage. If you are right, then the game is broken, but there seems to be something missing?

[@miguelantonioc.aquino6185]

Hi I have a favor what do you think best use talent YSG and best defense garrison talents can you create the video for YSG because other KZbinr said rage is important that's why I don't know what to do

[@lionpanda3226]

Please ask Lilith to add "rage gained per turn" info into the battle report

[@adamshazrey6355]

Thanks man , really helpful :)

[@rajinto2002]

Hey , ty for this very helpful video ! And why no points in latent power in the skill stree ?

[@gopalbhardwaj6055]

Should we then just put 2 Talent points in Rejuvenate of Support tree to get 100 rage on skill use instead of 150, since we are anyways getting 118 range per turn even as winning side. We are only going to get maximum 102 rage from rejuvenate. Can you please test this to verify 220 rage limit. with just 2 talent points on rejuvenate (let's say for Saladin) and then 3 points. And show if there is any difference in skill cycle.

[@davidzhong7477]

Man you are legend. You are the best!

[@ostreych3403]

Never swichted my skill tree so fast since the latent power video

[@WickGaming]

OG subscriber right here, appreciate you!

[@miguelantonioc.aquino6185]

Can I ask a question I have a commander YSG that's mean it's ok even I didn't use feral nature I like talent like other youtuber his commander damage 100k that's why I'm researching what best talent like other yt

[@glennowen4940]

Thanks for the info rage limit 220 rage per turn. However, would it be better if it was tested? As such the skill firing off within 6 (5 in some commander) turns as it only need 5 turns to rage full or (4 in some commander). Or maybe the breakdown of how to get the most efficient rage to nearing cap 200 consitently?

[@WickGaming]

The best I got is a 5 turn skill cycle on 1000 rage commanders. To prove that Lilith said something wrong we would need a 4 second cycle on a 1000 rage commander. Which I never got… So I really believe the cap is there.

[@andrisubianto6382]

Perfect i love this explanation

[@theeyeofhusky9662]

12:13 Wick: How many trajan will you find on the field ? Me: Alot Wick How many joan of arc ? Me: alot Wick: How many william ? Me: Alot

[@WickGaming]

🤣

[@randomosity13289]

Does this mean that for when Sun Tzu hits 5 targets (5 * 50 rage), that any other rage generated through skills is completely wasted?

[@mustafaahmed6653]

Thank you very much . It was shocking

[@bogdandimi]

Thanks a lot for this effort and sharing the knowledge! I'm wondering how the game determines who is the losing side. Is it based on dmg taken vs dmg dealt each turn? If that's the case, if i cast skill dmg in turn 7 and the opponent doesn't, it means in that turn I'm the winning side, while he's the winning side whenever he casts his own skill. Or is the losing side calculated as whoever has less % of troops remaining? in that case, if you go to battle already injured, you're always the losing side. Any thoughts?

[@WickGaming]

Check my new video :)

[@bogdandimi]

@@WickGaming Amazing! Thank you!

[@corndog5667]

So with all the rage going around is the horn worth crafting ?

[@Generaika]

I still don’t see it bad for open field battle where the key is firing as much aoe skills as u can. Yes there will be a time where everything proc together and u end up wasting the extra rage but that is really rare. It’s better to have a chance per turn to get a rage from several sources than having none. 30% chance from horn, then 10% Chance from ysg, then 10% from feral nature… it’s like having 50% chance that something will proc. Open field fights are short in nature, because of hit and run tactics, so for me having full skill talent is way better than getting 9% counter attack damage reduction since the fight won’t last as much to benefit from this 9% counter attack damage reduction or the other talent tree that gives u 25% damage but it rarely be at the time when u fire up a skill so u end up only increasing the normal attack which is kinda useless for open field. But I totally agree with u if u talking about rallying, since u need to optimize every single thing to micro level.

[@celestialdiscord2716]

Very informative.Now I have to reset my commander trees

[@WickGaming]

Glad I could help

[@MrVoitovici]

Watching all this i came to conclusion that we don’t even need the horn for most commanders?!

[@eumine8228]

I just realised it too, not that I would have made it anyway :D but let everyone else do it

[@ByzAsian45]

I use feral nature for barb commander and secondary commander. I didnt know it is really useless to spend

[@1Denzle1]

Thank you!