Widening the stereo sweet spot

[@michaelbetan3730]

Hi Folks, first of all a big thank you to Paul. Strangely, I did mention in my "Ask Paul" email that my speakers were a pair of Klipsch RP 8000F Mk IIs. I further thank all of you who have offered your guidance & support, truly appreciated. I think I'm just going to have to get used to being selfish for a change :). Best wishes.

[@computerfreakch8912]

Hi Mike, A different thing you might try is to apply an aggressive toe-in, where speakers cross fire in front of your preferred listening position: this way, as you move sideways, you get closer to one speaker, but off its axis, and away from the other speaker, but onto its axis. This works for me to a different extent with different speakers, Paul's note on off-axis performance still applies. Good luck Greetings from Switzerland

[@glenncurry3041]

I was going to suggest toe in also. But as Paul says, off axis response problems with many driver based designs. Especially if any horn loading. My Maggies love/ demand toe in.

[@Artemis_Prix]

That advice is best for horn loaded speakers due to the wide dispersion pattern. I have used that to great effect with my Klipsch Heresy IVs. Not certain it would be as effective without horns.

[@gtric1466]

Yes i am doing that now does widen the sweet spot without affecting the sound stage and worked wonders for my side wall reflections.

[@spentron1]

Only central spots will be equidistant from both speakers. The equilateral triangle is very sensitive to distance as well, in fact I believe the actual spot is slightly closer than the point of the triangle, with ears intercepting the sides of the triangle on the way to intersect behind your head. Going to a distance of 1.5 - 2 times the speaker spacing images less powerfully, more of a room filling sound, but is less sensitive to exact distance, and side seats are considerably better.

[@petew2560]

Agree that the sweet spot is closer in than the point

[@johndough8115]

Its not the Room. Its the tweeters. Not all tweeters are created equal. Some produce a more Narrow field of projection, where as others produce a wider field. The most impressive Tweeter Ive ever experienced... came from the EPI 100v speakers, that I bought used on craigslist. It doesnt matter what size room, or where I place them... they are Pure Magic... and the "Sweet Spot" is almost the entire Room. When I first set them up, I believe they were about 8 feet apart. If you stood anywhere within the 6ft box... you still got a perfect Holographic stereo image field. This extended lengthwise (away from the speakers), probably 15 feet, before notably tapering off. The speakers are small, and only 2 way. Despite being only a hair larger than a bookshelf speaker... they sound best on the floor, placed nearest a wall. Ive placed them ear level, and on the floor... and the highs / image, doesnt change at all. The only thing that is notable.. is that the Bass levels are improved, when putting them on the floor, and nearest a wall. The EPI tweeters magic might be due to the fact that in addition to using a stronger magnet + stronger coils... It has a Concave shape, rather than a Dome. I suspect that the Concave shape is better for spreading the high frequencies, much further out, than a Dome shaped tweeter.

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

As a senior citizen one of the things I would hate about downsizing is giving up my dedicated listening space. My wife is not able to tolerate stereo sound (long story) so moving to a smaller space would mean abandoning audio, or moving to headphone only audio. I'll just count my blessings that I have the space for a dedicated 20x25 room. Interesting challenge for this hobby. Not many countries have big single family homes. In my city, Toronto Canada, the new norm is becoming more like EU where large detached single family homes are just too expensive and out of the reach of young professionals. Maybe that means the future of high end audio for next generation must be headphones and small active speakers. Only the very rich will have the space for dedicated rooms with FR30s pulled out into a big room with monoblocs and power plants.

[@lexicon612]

Audio is a perfect hobby for retirement.

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

@@lexicon612 We all have to make our own choices in life. You are free to make yours. In my case, my wife is a stroke survivor, unable to tolerate the sound of a stereo. It causes pain and stress that hard to imagine. She generously supports and encourages my hobby and the enjoyment of listening to it. I have a dedicated 20x25 foot space for my fun well away from where she hangs out. But in a tiny little space of the typical condo in our city that would simply not be possible. I would find other things to do with my time and feel good about supporting my partner of 52 years. But that is just me.

[@lexicon612]

@@user-od9iz9cv1w Exceptional circumstances I was unaware of. Sounds like you have an amazing woman. My living room is my space as I have not found such a woman yet. Still looking though. Good talking to ya despite the misunderstanding. Have a good day.

[@redmondjp]

Yep yep yep. I recently picked up a pair of Polk LSiM705 speakers for a song (badam-tish). They have a very smooth, detailed listenable high end, but there is a certain crispness lacking, which seems from other reviews to be typical of this speaker/tweeter. I also have a very small room, and thus have limited speaker placement options. Best I have found is to have them pointing straight at me. I also installed spacers underneath the rear spikes and tilted the tops of the speakers forward (thus angling tweeter downward more directly toward my listening position, as these are tower speakers and fairly tall), and this helped as well (to get the maximum brightness out of the tweeters). Don't be afraid to keep tweaking, heck even a few degrees of tow-in can make a big difference. For me, my next step is room treatment, adding material to side walls where the reflections occur and to the back wall behind me (which by necessity I am sitting close to).

[@Crumbleofborg]

I have had success in the past with what might be called excessive toe-in; where the speaker centre lines cross in front of the listening position. The sweet spot seemed much wider this way. Might be worth a try as long as the speakers' off-axis response rolls off gently.

[@herbertmathews]

I have the same with my Electrostatic MLs which are even more directional than most cone speakers. Luckily, I am the only one who listens seriously and my body has muscle memory to put me in exactly the right spot :)

[@Zoomerland]

The room rules. I’m going to hire a contractor to move some walls

[@gotham61]

Clydebank (with no R) is part of the Glasgow metro area.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

Every one of the questions coming in from Europe and the UK reminds me just how relatively palacious American homes are.

[@rags015]

You mean palatial!

[@adrianking6309]

We live like Sardines over here in the UK. I live in what would be considered a large house over here and my living room is still only 16ft x 15ft, much bigger than most in the UK 🫣

[@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez]

I looked for an audiophile apartment in New York. The cheapest I found bigger than 70 m², clean and nice, with 2 small rooms, a kitchen and a bathroom: 2500 $ without charges per month. I founded one "cheaper" in the Bronx for 1800 $ per month. Small and expensive, although these little apartments have been built with real strong walls and might have good public transportation.

[@ShahidiSabri]

Adjusting , speakers position , to get the best audio , sweet spot , is that you can do it , by trial and error , process , positioning the speakers and then listening to hear the best stereo ambience , until you get the best position .

[@digggerrjones7345]

There's a reason it's called the sweet *spot* and not the sweet area!!

[@lexicon612]

A worthy audio experience always demands the sweet spot, for any audiophile. Audiophiles with families to accommodate usually do the home theater thing and have a dedicated room for the "selfish" setup. Not to mention if I am demoing my system, I want them in the sweet spot. I find it funny that you feel guilty that your experience is better than any visitor's to your place. Take turns in the sweet spot.

[@Scottlp2]

Want wider sweet spot? Omnis, open baffle, bipole or wide dispersion box speakers.

[@martinlindberg1983]

Welcome to the physics! You must place your self between exact distance of left & right speaker to be able to get the phantom center IF you care about soundstage. Many people just don´t care... It is a truly selfish sport, just inhale :)

[@JJ-no2ob]

Try a speaker upgrade to KEF , TAD, Mofi source point 8, or other concentric driver speakers. Olm omni speakers might work best in a smallish room as well. Most of all -Enjoy the music !

[@connorduke4619]

"Most" ribbon tweeter speakers are highly directional and I am guessing that is what the OP has. Another reason I don't go for them, next to the typical harshness.

[@Rowuk2024]

My experience is that side wall reflections destroy the size of the sweet spot. Wide dispersion in that case is a HUGE disadvantage. If we use toe in, we can limit dispersion and reduce room effects like reflections/diffraction. In any case, proper design will NEVER have dramatic peaks or troughs in the off axis response. Smooth rolloffs seem to offer the most. In the horn world this is called constant directivity.

[@Scottlp2]

I can’t reconcile that with my experience: I had mirage M3 speakers dynamic bipoles: ie set drivers facing forward and another set facing back IN PHASE. Huge sweet spot, speakers disappear and you can walk around the room and speakers stay disappeared. Huge soundstage.

[@Scottlp2]

I think Omnis, open baffle and wide dispersion box speakers have similar properties

[@Natan9000]

Hence I have “co centric” speakers 🤓

[@Bassotronics]

There is no sweeter spot than the G-spot.

[@richardwhite2344]

If I was the person who wrote this letter I would buy some better speakers. I have a smaller size room too for my Stereo Component system, right around 15x11 and I get fantastic sound. There is no issues at all using my Technics 3 way Speakers. The sound is fantastic. But, if I was him I would try new Speakers and see if that halps

[@hugobloemers4425]

I thought the difficult path would be to change the room.

[@ThinkingBetter]

And while EQ can recover an off-axis frequency response deficiency for a particular listening position, it won’t actually help widen the listening area.

[@funny0000000]

I guess he should have bought the Aspen FR30's and then he would not have this problem. I guess they'll never learn...

[@Fastvoice]

For a room this small a pair of FR20s or even FR10s would be sufficient - maybe with an additional subwoofer.

[@dougdavis8986]

Dork

[@michaelbetan3730]

@@Fastvoice ERRRRMMMM... Could you lend me 20K pleeezzzeee 🤣😅

[@AhmedAddas]

Paul please explain usb isolator

[@tacofortgens3471]

Audioquest jitterbug

[@davidstevens7809]

Horns suck. Yup.monitors have narrow dispersion because they teach that bs these days. Wide dispersion designs sound better..but the room must be perfect..