Wildlife Affecting Livelihood

This Q&A is pulled from a collection of questions posed to me by students of my Online Permaculture Design Course (PDC). Learn more with my free four-part Masterclass series, here:
www.discoverpe...
Question:
If an "ethical" neighbor decides to let grass and weeds grow out tall enough to create a nice habitat for wildlife that may cross over and eat my crops or my poultry (affecting the yield of my system and my family's livelihood) in an ethical bioregion is the onus on me to provide defensive solutions if the neighbor refuses to manage it or should I resort to passing laws to enforce it? What kind of ethical dispute resolution system is ideal in a permaculture bioregion?
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Geoff is a world-renowned permaculture consultant, designer, and teacher. He has established permaculture demonstration sites that function as education centers in all the world’s extreme climates - information on the success of these systems is networked through the Permaculture Research Institute and the www.permaculturenews.org website.
About Permaculture:
Permaculture (en.wikipedia.o...) integrates land, resources, people and the environment through mutually beneficial synergies - imitating the no waste, closed-loop systems seen in diverse natural systems. Permaculture applies holistic solutions that are applicable in rural and urban contexts and at any scale. It is a multidisciplinary toolbox including agriculture, water harvesting and hydrology, energy, natural building, forestry, waste management, animal systems, aquaculture, appropriate technology, economics, and community development.
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[@B30pt87]

Wow, that was the best answer I've ever heard about getting along with your neighbors' use of their land. It included the ethics of humanity without making it about us (humans) vs. every other form of life. Good job!

[@allanturpin2023]

If you live near wildlife, a fence to protect your crops or livestock should be an expense you should assume is necessary and one for which you are responsible.

[@rehoboth_farm]

There you are again Allan banging on about individual responsibility. For crying out loud why on Earth would I take responsibility for the animals in my care when I could blame the neighbor for not mowing their grass to my satisfaction? Why shouldn't I call the cops every time that a coyote kills one of my chickens or a deer nibbles on one of my fruit trees? It's those damned Jones and their shaggy lawn fouling up the whole works after all. What do they think they are doing? Growing a hay field? Beer?

[@mclovin2232]

@@rehoboth_farm 😂

[@shofarmvt]

Completely agree with you, Allan. Wild habitat is ideal for so many reasons, and it reflects human arrogance to bring in non-native animals and expect that nothing is going to attack them! We should celebrate wild landscapes first and foremost, and adjust our practices towards coexistence. We don't live in a world any longer where we get to just 'kill the predator'.

[@shofarmvt]

I live next to core wildlife habitat and our 1300-acre farm IS core wildlife habitat...so we here in Vermont USA believe it is the responsibility of anyone who decides to keep non-native livestock to provide them with shelter, protection, food, and health care. That's simple "best practices." Because of the extreme value predators bring to the landscape and to a healthy ecosystem, there are abundant coexistence strategies available that we need to share and educate ourselves and each other about...especially given the damage caused to willife globally by land fragmentation and human development into their habitats. Humans have introduced non-native livestock at the expense of wildlife and diverse ecosystems. We should ideally welcome their presence and seek to design our food systems in harmony with them. That's what we do on our farm: wildlife-assisted permaculture. We don't keep livestock per se, but we have a sanctuary duck flock that lives within our system. We know here in Vermont, USA that you have to secure birds at night, and that electric net fencing is needed during the day to prevent canids like fox and coyote from attacking. We've had no mortality from wildlife thus far, and the coyotes leave their scat within 10 feet of the duck yard at night! Instead of livestock, we're working with a renowned wildlife ecologist to study browsing and denning patterns, and preferred travel routes to plant our food system in partnership with them...they browse and deposit manure in the same location, generally. So in the winter, we prune our fruit trees or cut pole wood like maple and they browse the twigs and leave their manure. We personally rely on a plant-centered diet, but maintain an animal-rich environment. So given the stressors on wild places and on biodiversity itself, I do think that it reflects a permacultue ethic to coexist and to seek, design around, and prioritize wild ecosystems as a central component of our collective work. www.sanctuaryatsho.org

[@jesserahimzadeh4298]

Never involve government voluntarily.

[@mclovin2232]

Right on. Never invite the government into your life...they will never leave

[@jeannewhitaker1950]

Excellent answer! I live in the Washington DC suburbs and maintain a sizable garden on my half acre near a hundred acre park. I used to control rabbits by leaving scraps for foxes. That strategy changed when coyotes showed up and chased the foxes away. Live and learn! Fences are a must here. My neighbors don’t want to see my compost projects but are happy for me to “harvest” their grass clippings and leaves and take some extra produce.

[@mclovin2232]

Sorry to hear you live near DC but, your sizable garden on a half acre sound awesome.

[@przybyla420]

People are allowed to apply poison to their land that washes down on to yours, I think we should focus on reducing and eliminating that before we worry about urban jungles. (If you’re in a rural situation, then welcome to the country. Neighbors will use land differently than you would like. Fact of life.)

[@lesliekendall2206]

Live and let live. Put up a fence. In fact, my personality would put the fence X feet inside the property line and plant that area SPECIFICALLY for the predators.

[@matthiasbrunger1179]

You should always apreciate wildlife as a part of our world worth protecting. Eventually your neighbours property offers shelter for wildlife but not food. So plant some perennial crops that wildlife likes close to your neighbours property to keep them fed already at the boundary of your property. If wildilfe attacks poultry, add plants which attract birds close to your neighbour, so wildlife hunts wildlife and not poultry.

[@Christodophilus]

I have dealt with neighbours and their domestic pets, affecting my poultry and growing systems - as well as the usual native wildlife intrusion. I can ask (and expect) the neighbour to control their domestic pets, but not the native wildlife. It's not their jurisdiction. Part of our struggle, designing with natural patterns, is accepting the ebb and flow of natural intrusions. Because they are essentially, integral to the design. Now I plan for losses, by either growing more, creating more deterents for natural intrusions, and/or making connections with others who can grow, what I might lose.

[@TOMMYSURIA]

Here in Central Florida is called, wild hogs.😞

[@etherealrose2139]

Definitely going to disagree with Geoff on this one, waffling on whether *where* this hypothetical is located. It simply doesn't matter for the answer. I will agree with using design and working with your neighbors as he took so long to say aren't the end. If the whole idea of permaculture is to use human resources to promote wildlife by doing wildlife things, one shouldn't be surprised when wildlife moves in. Everything you do is going to bring predators and prey. We, as humans, are the top predators on dry land. If you have issues on your land, then they are your prey. Stop being a nance and trying to use the government to enforce what YOU should be doing and just worry about your own property. Got rodents moving in? put in high, bare perches or trees to encourage raptors. Encourage coyotes or whatever wild canine is in your area to take care of small rodents and rabbits. Nature abhors a vacuum, if you have creatures moving in on your crops it's because you have little diversity and aren't encouraging other creatures that are their predators. Nature will take care of nature.

[@mclovin2232]

Well said 👍

[@kdegraa]

Build a fence.

[@HelenRullesteg]

Brilliant answer.

[@bandhuji8543]

the problem is the solution. in my opinion making laws now will maybe be a short term fix for one person, but will be a long term obstacle for another. i mean, passing a law making the wilderness regrowth illegal? thats the same as declaring war on nature. if hes concerned about yields, maybe ask to develop the neighbors land and split the yield. the problem is the solution

[@josephtastic]

Well said. Love ya Geoff

[@treesagreen4191]

I live in an area where modern, monocultural agriculture is the norm. There is a serious lack of wildlife because it has been kept away from the moneymaker. We need to stop focussing on livelihood from a monetary perspective. I was collecting seed from the garden today and was reminded hoe generous everything that grows is, with enough seed on a few carrot flowers to see me through next year, enough parsley seed to feed the neighbourhood. We need to plant more than we do to allow for our needs and some visitors' needs too, it's our duty not to greedily hang on to it all. I'm reminded of an old woman who lived round here when I was a child. She took to the road as a young woman, when her true love was killed in the First World War and ended her days in a shepherds hut in a wood. Story has it that in order to keep her food safe from rodents, she would feed the rats regularly and they left her stores alone. If it's true, she must have been so close to nature to understand it properly and a generous soul, like trees and plants. She never settled in a house, swore at and cursed most people and must have been well into her 80s, maybe older when she died. Lessons to be learned there

[@FurikuriYugi]

I can relate to the woman in your story. Where I live people are in constant battle with termites and spend an ungodly amount of money to combat them every year so I feed them, I keep a wood pile near the house for them and haven't had a problem in 10 years. I provide a nice place for all the things that people hate like scorpions, snakes ect and have very happy chickens that I have never spent a dime on and get tons of food in return for throwing a few logs and limbs on the pile every so often.

[@khemrajnarine5636]

can we see updates from Jordan. Please

[@thewhittierhousewife3898]

Like the man said, "It depends" mostly on zoning laws -- are there any? Have they been broken? Beware the double edged sword of zoning laws, they can cut both ways.😏 Is this situation a fire hazzard? What about fences making for good neighbors? Seems to me the onus is definitely on you if you don't like what an uncooperative neighbor is doing. It's up to you to protect your interests, but in a legal and reasonable way if the neighbor refuses to cooperate. Better document all your actions, just in case. Hopefully, if handled well, a feud won't start.😒

[@b_uppy]

This is an issue nobody else has answered to my knowledge...

[@evancouzens680]

In suburban areas, coyotes, raccoons, and possums can take chickens, especially if you live in an area with a healthy park system. A less destructive but more persistent problem is that unless you can afford extensive infrastructure investment in your house and property, it is virtually impossible to keep rats away without industrial poisons. Cats are lazy, and they're too smart for traps.

[@shofarmvt]

There are far better ways to keep rats away in urban areas--poisons will only cause poisoning of those that feed on the carcasses...a horrible impact on wildlife. Best way is to increase habitat for their natural predators. Rat dogs, weasels, rat snakes...fox, coyote, raptors. Snap traps work, and the carcasses can be frozen and donated to wildlife rehab centeres.

[@vincentemery839]

People need to understand that it is normal to let nature have his share of your work. You must plant much plants than you will consume, have more poultry than you will consume, and let other animals get their fair share, otherwise you're just another egoist on this earth

[@franek_izerski]

So, not a real clear answer on this one.

[@monkeysaiyen7196]

Then again its not an easy question to answer

[@franek_izerski]

@@monkeysaiyen7196 But it's Geoff Lawton.

[@allanturpin2023]

The questioner should have at least offered some specifics. Herbivores or predators, and what kind would have made the question easier to answer.

[@Christodophilus]

To be fair, it's never a clear answer in disputes, where people differ in ideologies. Who is right? The best answer is the middle ground, where people can negotiate. Geoff suggested a collaborative, community approach. The middle ground. It's never going to be clear who is right, until the unique collaborative for that region, and those different enterprises, can agree what is in the best interest.

[@allanturpin2023]

@@Christodophilus- I'm going to remind you of those words when you catch me raiding your fridge.