Will Dark Archon become Standard?

[@fraginatrix]

I'm a simple man, I see big red balls, I upvote

[@someguyik]

Santa is happy to hear that

[@cl8804]

good man ps kinda gay

[@youuuuuuuuuuutube]

Can Protoss stop losing their Dark Archon full of energy? Thanks.

[@justincronkright5025]

Agreed, yesterday was a dozen lings which could have been extremely easily 'Dark-Strömmed'!

[@tehvolka]

It has a mind of his own.

[@cl8804]

trashtoss challenger, difficulty: imbossible

[@Baldodeathmetal]

"Can't Kill? Don't." -Tasteless

[@Berry_Bruiser]

"Why use many word when few word do trick?" - Tasteless

[@oncedidactic]

I should have just said this instead of my 300 word reply on the other pvz a couple days ago 🙄 Thx tasteless

[@cl8804]

most intelligent thing useless ever said

[@leagronaut8941]

At 9:48 a wave of overlords are sent out to reveal the entire battlefield

[@KingJerbear]

I'm just obsessed with this channel. I was an extremely casual SC/BW player when I was younger. I used to get smashed trying ranked so I would mostly play custom map modes, but I have really fond memories of the game, and especially the music. One time I was in Summer School (age 14 or so) and me and a friend snuck into a computer lab after class and played on the huge projector screen on the front board. Anyway, I basically never followed competitive SC at any point, but having Artosis the GOAT "casting" these random games with the music in the background is just like therapeutic nostalgia in it's purest form. Really appreciate these. Thanks for reading

[@johnmcnabs8904]

Why the apology? No matter the matchup, at these levels, there is always something to see and enjoy with this magnificent game. Nothing comes close, and I wouldn't be surprised if nothing will ever get close to what Starcraft is. Do carry on, chills await us at every turn.

[@cl8804]

apologize, bish

[@cl8804]

oh yes he does!!

[@ilbelramirez9969]

That was Tasteless litterally quoting from Sun Tzu's The Art of War, you know

[@adamkashlak8026]

Or was it Sun Tzu who learned the Art of War from binge watching Artosis & Tasteless casts? 🤔

[@kei4904]

That probe transfer into the lurkers: OUCH!

[@aaronliedka7242]

Chillswitch engage!

[@dangerfield6855]

This is my chill (the yearning)

[@Andrew-Penlesky]

I have learned over the past 4 ZvP posts: (1) late game zerg OP (2) don't fight uphill on the dominator pizza slices (3) maelstrom psi storm, while satisfying, is not enough

[@fencserx9423]

Yeah I agree Mael-storm is strong. But feels like it only has about 7 minutes of power in the mid game before mass lurker and defiler blunt it’s effectiveness

[@kevinf.2556]

@@fencserx9423 feedback defiler is really strong in the endgame, but you need them to rotate on the map

[@fencserx9423]

@@kevinf.2556 True, but the Evil puff ball is just so vulnerable. They have utility, but extracting that utility seems to be a hurdle

[@mmjahink]

Yeah it has such a small ceiling of potential for getting punished, doesn't seem worth it.

[@fencserx9423]

@@mmjahink at least not in every game. If you have it, use it. But I think that’s why we usually only see one, never more than two

[@alexinfinite7142]

Dude you're such a natural commentator on game matches it just flows so well I love it

[@bjornljsswe]

I really hope DA becomes common. It adds a lot of flavor to the matchup. Also: Did you see Snow vs Soulkey earlier this year on Blitz Y? Where he used DA to consistently feedback his Defilers to stop the pushes on the left flank and won the game. After that game I really thought DA would become more common, but it kinda didn't... yet =)

[@alpacaherder5680]

as someone who doesnt play the game only watches but been playing quite a few others at high level it blows my mind that there is a unit with a 8x8 pixel aoe stun and its not used 24/7

[@maltekoppe1324]

Did we mention? You cannot. Attack. Into Lurkers. On. High ground. Can’t do it.

[@amai2307]

More like you can, but you need 2-3 reavers for that.

[@mcspud]

Hey mate, just so you know - you basically cannot and should not attack into high ground, especially when there are lurkers. Just so you know. Dont do that thing.

[@KirbyGotenksabsorbed]

Well, don't attack them with shitty dragoons at least.

[@pallytime2156]

Jadong getting MURDERED by flash going mass goliths

[@DUCKVILLELOL]

"Pizza slices are highground" noted!

[@CorrectHorseBatteryStaple472]

Hot take, 18 scouts can 1-volley a lurker if air attack upgrades match zerg ground armor That's how we're gonna break those lurker defenses on high ground

[@T33K3SS3LCH3N]

Right until 13:58 it was a great trade for P despite pushing up... and then it turned around in seconds. Might have still been in a decent position if he had turned back just a little bit earlier. Instead, it was the beginning of the end.

[@StudioMod]

The reason you still don't want to do that is because Zerg reinforce in just a few seconds and Protoss take minutes to get that army size back. You have to be careful as Protoss when going against Zerg because they can just abuse their speedy reinforcements to the point of no return. Combined with attacking uphill against Lurkers (arguably the worst enemy to attack up hill), there's just a perfect recipe for throwing the match there.

[@RomanHofstätter-i6b]

I think the smartest thing Tasteless ever said has to do with Crazy Zerg, but that's just me.

[@PajakTheBlind]

Babysitting those Dark Archons will be a critical skill to develop to make DA really viable. Imagine having more than one with 2 Maelstroms each. Expensive, but possible crowd control could really be devastating.

[@ghost-user559]

Shuttles?

[@GaussianEntity]

Idk why they don't have them move follow the dragoons. That way they don't just wander off like they tend to do while also not getting in the way of microing dragoons since move follow puts them at a certain distance.

[@small-evil]

"I'm not wrong!" I'm impressed by the determination of Protoss players to prove you wrong.

[@AntonyWest]

Artosis two rules for Protoss: 1. Legs 2. Don't attack onto higher ground Noticed that there were like two or three maelstrom, and then it wasn't used even when attacking the higher ground

[@Skullmiser]

I have the Globetrotter tune in my head now. Thanks a lot. Happy Solstice.

[@iShadowOfDeath]

These protoss always look like there winning the throw there army. Fkin ROAM AND EXPAND

[@ErkiEntveg]

Basically they go for kill, but not able to.

[@ozar_midrashim]

​@ErkiEntveg You can't kill the late game Zerg Swarm. You can only endure and starve it.

[@tehvolka]

P is trying to get some kind of advantage before Hive kicks in. Understandable if you ever played late game vs a good Z. And this is JD...

[@StudioMod]

@@tehvolka Yeah, late game Zerg is terrifying, especially when it's against the best Zerg player ever. I mean, yeah, Soulkey is better now, but Jaedong was king for a long time. He's no joke. And if you see him not going mutas, you have to imagine his micro is going to be very freed up. He played it perfectly. He used those Lurkers masterfully.

[@panchoxxlocoxx9638]

Lots of Dark Archon games lately

[@Jagtnkerpdig]

Dark archon death animation is pretty sweet looking

[@drewwalbeck6006]

"Don't attack lurkers on a ramp" "Make sure you have legs when the terran pushes" For someone who hates protoss so much, Artosis sure does give them some good advice 😅

[@Endlessmelody4]

Love the way you cast. Awesome work

[@AquaSZSSoo]

1:04 From watching Soma games on this channel, I think his defining trait is strategic. He goes above and beyond other zerg players in establishing map control: immaculate map vision, putting units exactly where they should be, etc. I often see him make costly attacks that seem inefficient but actually help him control the game.

[@RandyWiafe]

Have we watched Protoss win a game recently!?

[@luizcbn173]

Not against zerg

[@cosmicfox5671]

No. As soon as Zerg is allowed to get Defilers, the game is basically over. Dark Swarm and Plague are just too strong.

[@gesuyarou663]

Hell no. It's getting frustrating, lol.

[@ghost-user559]

@@cosmicfox5671It’s only because they don’t start Dark Archon early enough and they don’t shuttle them around and protect them like they do with Reavers or Templars.

[@osirisra1476]

ZvP is broken.

[@Mrcoddy]

Its not until Artosis casts a bunch of the same matchup in a row I realize I don't really care what the matchup is, I just like Arty's casting

[@StudioMod]

I'm sorry, but Zerg games are just the most entertaining thing ever. And Jaedong brings back so many memories. Not seeing any muta micro was a bit disappointing, but he absolutely crushed it with those lurkers. I love games like this, win or lose, Zerg always makes for absolutely awesome replays.

[@Berry_Bruiser]

11:25 You're a fantastic caster, keep up the good work

[@cuervoxi]

"I'm the best Protoss player" - Every Terran main

[@wesselvandorsten]

can lurkers miss when shooting up hills?

[@ArtosisCasts]

No. The entirety of lurker attacks are splash so it doesn’t miss.

[@wesselvandorsten]

@@ArtosisCasts i see, ty. very funny unit

[@farming4g]

Pizza slices? They remind me of the imperial starships

[@StudioMod]

To be fair, Imperial Star Destroyers are the pizza-slices of starships.

[@cattlehoop]

I love the non mirror protoss matches

[@mikehunt774]

I’m loving these ZvP games. It’s probably my favorite matchup so I’m always excited to see you cast them.

[@Rucka_Inc.]

Dark Archon META ?!?! original title gang here!

[@airforceone6523]

Im new does swarm from defilers protect from storm by templars? Does swarm protect from zealots and lings??

[@mindsight9732]

Swarm is protect from range projectiles. So hydralisks, dragoons, marines all vary rarely deal damage attacking targets in a swarm. Melee, Spells, and Splash are unaffected.

[@airforceone6523]

@ melee spells and splash damage. Meaning units inside the swarm still get damage hits?

[@JCP389]

If I see any of the following units in the thumbnail, I'm watching: Dark Archon, Wraith, or Guardian. Simple as.

[@25yougo]

Good like the Nada matches?

[@dj_koen1265]

happy to see some more jeadong games

[@andrerossel8394]

From the visionary who beat absolute darkness. If instead of cannons there were cybernetics cores or a gateway up front . Those reaver who still pay themselves in gold would have saved the base. Also with reaver he could have put who cares how many lurkers up hill just to get nuked.

[@andrerossel8394]

I liked molso style and innovative tactics. He is having really efficient trades and the dark archon are doing some heavy lifting even against late game zerg. I liked the idea of the two robos close the zerg entrenched position. He maybe could still have that and yet put his nexus on a more safe position

[@jo0lz610]

very handsome gateway layout!

[@3xpression296]

ive been consuming a lot of artosis casts and havent played SC in 20 years. but with the current meta im seeing in PvZ, would you not get instant value with like a 2-3 scout+observer to hard counter the lurker containment while Z is going into hive tech for defiler? i just feel like with the level of micro these players have, theyd get value for the cost of the unit by eliminating some lurkers off the board so you can retake position or pressure... my thoughts.

[@P7ab]

I think they'd just leave some hydras to insta wipe the useless scouts

[@3xpression296]

@@P7ab but you'd have goons+range as your vanguard. The hydras back off, but the lurkers remain burrowed. You punish that

[@gustofwindsplatoon]

@@3xpression296scourge are the main reasons why scouts dont work pvz. Also just the price of scouts is way too much. Hydras also. But try it out if you think it's good hahahah

[@benn1181]

I think we never see them because they are just so insanely gas expensive and hard countered by scourge

[@gustofwindsplatoon]

@ that too

[@thuperman5228]

Nukes do full damage vs zerg

[@steveisrome1719]

Im waiting for zergs to start putting defilers in overlords to avoid free irradiate kills. One day, mark my words itll happen

[@s4091boat]

How about air drop to the starting base?

[@thatswhatsgood24]

I think pvz is the most interesting match up in the game. Don't get me wrong, I like some siege tank and spider mine shenanigans but pvz, for me, hits different.

[@ghost-user559]

It is a very elegant and elaborate dance. Terran matches feel a little more brute force. This requires some dancing around by both sides.

[@thatswhatsgood24]

@ghost-user559 Yeah, Terran games, especially TvT, are like trench warfare

[@Equim991]

I may have missed the point. What is that thing that i cannot do?

[@GaussianEntity]

Something about lurking in the high ground

[@gesuyarou663]

What's the Zerg Z V P win rate on Dominator? Like 99%? But for real, this hurts, man.

[@no1xtz765]

In terms of dominance (referring to beating any opponent no sweat, ANY in the same era), Jaedong is at the top!😊

[@alexfriedman2152]

I've been really happy with the PvZ games. I'm Protoss so I like PvZ and PvT more than anything. I need my morning Coffee and Artosis. This game is old but it will literally never get boring to watch and never get boring to PLAY, even just casually like B rank A rank etc.

[@braoha123]

I haven't played a game in more than 15 years, I still watch every game on this channel. There is no other game like it!

[@tehvolka]

13:00 P could have killed the fourth, he didn't check with obs that there were only 3 Lurkers. I think that was the play.

[@Picaroon9]

I imagine he was worried about getting pincered and losing his army. If he commits to killing the 4th he can't run.

[@zippityb]

Hey Arty, I don't mind when you zoom out. I kind of like it.

[@JDirty-w-tha-30]

As the prophet Tasteless foretold 🙏

[@hallo-mt5tx]

i think dark archon becoming meta is somewhat of an oxymoron a lot of the big plays you see come from zerg being unaware and heavily investing into muta, which ends up with mutas getting wiped out way earlier and getting way less value than expected thats when protoss either runs them over or totally outpaces them economically, idk if that will happen even remotely as much with dark archon as meta kinda like arbiter lost its strength when pros figured out how to deal with recall, parking science vessels on the sides and getting better at hitting EMP but the investment is way lower, so maybe it will actually stay as a smaller impact thing stunning hydras and making zerg go less for muta in ZvP as a result

[@ghost-user559]

I think the beauty of the balance of the races is that it’s similar to chess. Every race has a hard counter to the Op tactics of every other race built into the game. So the meta is more about the collective consciousness of current tactics, it always seems like things become less effective when the opponent knows it is the current meta. But every strategy circles back around eventually as people who used it are not playing anymore, so it works again as ling as its not expected.

[@ch420newsteam]

I remember exactly what tasteless said, I think of it all the time!. I just do not respect tasteless enough to actually remember his words so I use my own instead/ -Artosis

[@floflo8134]

Ce que dit Jancovici sur le climat, et la baisse de disponibilité de l’énergie, ne me semble pas deconnant. Et c’est une chose qu’il faut prendre en compte parce que pour produire il faut de l'énergie.

[@chongli297]

Let's brainstorm some alternative strategies for P! 1) carriers? 2) arbiter recall into the main (don't even bother attacking the lurkers?) 3) more dark archons and maelstrom all the lurkers? What do you guys think?

[@ChessJourneyman]

Carriers and sniping main base tech works and I've used it many times back in the day.

[@valterbranisarajevo8731]

carriers vs zerg is suicide. plague is the answer why

[@ghost-user559]

A better tempo, no sacrificing units for a bad engagement when their units cost more. Mostly taking better advantage of shuttles and Dark Archons. A few Dark Archons dropped like the Protoss drop Zealots onto Terran Tanks, to snipe defilers before dark swarm or plague would do the trick.

[@HasekuraIsuna]

I believe Scourge would be waaaaay to cost-efficient for Carriers to ever be a thing against Zerg.

[@De_Nome]

Dark Archon is amazing but peoples got lazy and switched the meta to not have to do actual micro and use caster abilities. By the way, it would be extremely deadly if used with speed shuttle to not let the opponent react in time.

[@cl8804]

even tha dong can take gaymes of they trash-toss

[@victors.]

11:26 hahaha

[@cl8804]

yeah you'd better apologize

[@SamBElevenC]

I really think effOrt was already stronger than jd by the end of sc1 golden age. Just didn’t have the time to show it except that osl vs flash

[@TheBryceWade]

The DA should absolutely be standard PvZ. Even if they go hydra lurker ling. That investment is supposed to stay alive, and if it was sitting at the 4th could have maeled and stormed the dark swarm push or feedbacked the defiler. If you KNOW dark swarm is coming (as it always is), woulsnt it be prudent to prepare for that and set a trap for the defiler? Feedback kill the defiler then storm the maeld units. Late game protoss could have speed shuttle w DA and two HT roaming to rek groups of zerg.. but that requires getting to late game whixh protoss suck at soinf because they either get HT rekt by mutas or contained w lurkers. Both can be curbed by mael storm

[@ghost-user559]

Exactly. Shuttle drop them like reavers or high Templar. A really pro micro would be to drop both the dark archon and the high Templar anytime defilers are in play and snipe them before they get the spells down with feedback, or if they get to cast, you go for maelstrom.

[@tommajor6239]

I ALWAYS go hydra /lurker. My APM is 30 and I play against the computer. Funny how my builds show up as new meta all the time. lol

[@P7ab]

Can protoss ever go carrier against zerg?

[@skankhunt_4319]

still better than 7 min tvt vulture games

[@cl8804]

da-dong-dong-dong

[@marsrecordings]

SPOILER BLOCK😊

[@zaftnotameni]

getting chills seeing zerg using the auto win button with dark swarm.... such skill

[@ghost-user559]

Against a race that could instantly kill defilers lol

[@AsmongoldvsArtosisclips]

What a bad argument to say JD was the only zerg to qualify for the round of 16 of last SSL . Basically only Queen fck up of the other zergs and Hero and SK were already there. "Big deal" lol . We already know he is good enough for SSl so that tells us NOTHING.

[@soldier22881]

dark archon should have been the standard ages ago, blizzard finaly gave a tool for protoss to be able to go toe to toe with zerg and so many players dont even use them. maelstrom is huge difference maker

[@ghost-user559]

Not just Maelstrom but feedback is Op. Can insta snipe Defilers and Queens if they have high enough energy.

[@soldier22881]

@@ghost-user559 bingo some one gets it

[@ghost-user559]

@ All they need is a shuttle with a D Archon and another shuttle with a high Templar or two and then boom.

[@soldier22881]

@@ghost-user559 thats a good idea actually would help get them in and out of any engagement

[@ghost-user559]

@@soldier22881 It’s a situation where I know these pros could handle it, but I would fail at the micro and lose a shuttle lol. But seeing how fast they drop reavers and throw down storms, their hotkey game is insane enough to pull it off.

[@soldier22881]

welp time to load up the superior starcraft aka the cd version not the remaster version :P

[@ChristophelusPulps]

What is it about these semi-pro Protoss and throwing games with overly optimistic attacks? You can't let a Zerg at full macro gain any breathing room or momentum.

[@ghost-user559]

Protoss seem to have this psychological thing. Like they ALL do it. I think when your units are stronger than all the other races it makes them overestimate their army far too often. Like yeah they are great units, but they are also the most expensive units.

[@StudioMod]

@@ghost-user559 And they're slow to rebuild. And against Zerg, who can resupply their army in mere moments, you really want to value your Protoss units more.

[@ghost-user559]

@ Yeah in Z v P I think you’re right even more. The tempo and timing is everything against Zerg, especially when you’re playing Protoss. We’ve even seen mobility issues when a superior Protoss gets a major lead, and just because they have units spread too thinly, the Zerg can just overwhelm the Dragoons if they get a surround or high ground, so the speed of mobilization is just as big a gap as the speed to rebuild afterwards. I think Recall is kind of meant top be used like the Zerg Canal. If Protoss had some charged Arbiters in reserve for moments like that they could warp in the reinforcements and then seamlessly replace the front line to avoid getting trampled.

[@adizergu]

zvp is the best matchup in the game!

[@TerekFilms3]

GIVE US A TVT!!!!!

[@mantistoboggan2676]

To me zerg is the most exciting to watch

[@kevinf.2556]

NuguGe is brainlessly aggresive and does NOT know when to back off - he threw the game away mulitple times by being too out in the open instead of choking zerg out Really frustrating to watch this P...

[@AsmongoldvsArtosisclips]

I already know it is standard and I already know any of you ,including pros, this think 1 DA is enough are wrong. It will be 2+ at least.

[@keekedup]

this toss seems to get bored at the same time every game and just throws it into lurkers

[@mowsefmow8177]

cast some Rush

[@SmokerFace12]

You're getting a little too positive about Protoss things lately. Hate us more again please.

[@jonathaniszorro]

I love ZvP

[@brazilstreets7955]

I love zerg games

[@victorfinberg8595]

no, you can't ! don't even try

[@railenmiles]

nah moar zvp is good

[@greentea2993]

another protoss game and another throw lol

[@johnnyboy3563]

PvZ best matchup

[@phoenixlich]

Zerg is so HYPE!

[@TagaBearClaw]

ggs

[@EvanWSH]

It's so painful to watch the DA just get tossed into the garbage before defiler comes out every time lol. like I get that its hard to micro in BW but why does the DA ALWAYS get thrown away for nothing sitting on the front line with not enough energy for a maelstrom? lol. it would be more useful if you just sent it to your expand with an obs out front and just left it there for the rest of the game to 1 shot defilers trying to plague grind

[@StudioMod]

Feedback just doesn't exist in the minds of toss players for some reason. Keeping them around just for that would be worth it, you'd think.

[@namepolicy3971]

every game auto lose to zerg no matter what you do. broken game

[@stevetb5211]

First!!

[@Beanofritz]

Chillz

[@idealsAREisomorphic]

These guys make so many mistakes..

[@blazewarTV]

100% they would beat your ass

[@mf_________]

on their off races lol

[@afwaller]

This is why brood war is such a good game. Everyone makes mistakes. It is so hard you simply cannot play perfectly. Even flash or soulkey or rain or whoever you want to pick as being very good will still have “mistakes” even in a perfect game, things like workers in a little pile not mining because they were busy, units they couldn’t micro because too much was going on, and so on. It’s a game of mistakes.

[@idealsAREisomorphic]

@ yeah, these guys have a lot to improve on.

[@cyberneticdex69]

💩🤡