Will Either of These Rifles Shoot a 1/2 MOA Group @ 100 Yards?

[@2pugman]

After testing many hand loads in my Ruger American over a few months, it favors the 140 grain heads @ 100 yds. It shoots @ 1 MOA if I do my part. I'm 81 .

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

I'm noticing 140s seem to perform better than the 120s in these two guns for sure, with factory ammo at least. At 81 I can only marvel at the knowledge and experience you must have. Keep shooting!

[@cervus-venator]

Thanks, I enjoyed this video. I have a Ruger Precision in 308. It has a shorter 18 inch barrel, but that's okay I run a suppressor on it. Sometimes I can stack certain rounds on top of each other with it. I have a Vortex Diamondback FFP scope on it that does pretty well. I personally love my homemade 7mm Rem mag that I put together on a Mauser action. I shot it at 1000 yards just last month at a range in TN. That was fun and while there I also shot the Ruger Precision 308. Unfortunately, I only had time to shoot it out to 600 yards. I was using the Federal Premium with 168 grain for both however the 7mm were Berger bullets and the 308 was Sierra match King bullets.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Cervus, thanks for the comment. That Mauser home-build sounds like a fun rifle. What's your main usage for it?

[@cervus-venator]

@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper It was put together for long range shooting, it is just I don't have too many places for that. However, I did also want to hunt with it thus I put it in a camo stock. I have a video of it from when I got back from TN and having shot it 1K yards. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJDdlmOeiaxkj7M

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

@@cervus-venator Nice build. Congrats on the 1000 yard club award.

[@billbertagnoli4226]

Glad I fast forwarded to the end.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Thank you for watching until the end???

[@GTMGunTotinMinnesotan]

GREAT video idea. I might have to try to replicate this. Entertaining stuff man!

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Thanks for the comment. What rifles are you going to use?

[@DDDYLN]

Great video. Thanks for doing this. I've been eyeing the Ruger RPR, in 300 win mag, because I lack the $$$ for 338 Lapua. I honestly haven't looked at the Savage Arms equivalent, but I will. I don't own any Ruger firearms (S&W, Springfield, Glock, Rock Island Armory, Taurus, & Radical Firearms). Ruger seems to make great firearms, for lower prices, but also with an excellent warranty and customer service.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

I absolutely love my Ruger Precision Rifles. They are not "Gucci" or fancy but seem very accurate. I also have the 338 LM Ruger. M pretty sure it's the same price as the 300 WM. Both have the same chassis and muzzle break. I'm guessing there's an obvious difference in recoil, but in have seen a couple people who add weight plates to the hand guard to help reduce recoil on the magnum RPRs. The Savages look and feel nicer, but I prefer my Rugers for the two calibers I share. What ever you decide I hope you'll enjoy the rifle. Let me know what happens.

[@DDDYLN]

@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper my ex Army Ranger buddy keeps suggesting 338 Lapua. Thanks for the vote of confidence on Ruger RPR rifles. They seem to be very nice, and very accurate for the money. If I was made of money, I'd definitely buy the 338 Lapua RPR. But, the cartridges are very expensive. I'd have to spend a lot of money on ammo, in order to become proficient with a scoped 338 Lapau RPR. I'm still considering it. I'm certainly not destitute. I just need to confer with my financial manager!

[@henryofskalitz2228]

The ruger rpr has much better accuracy over the savage 110 elite precision

[@metalroofquoter633]

i have a feeling this guy cant shoot. Both of these guns are capable of .5 moa

[@USAACbrat]

if you measure inside to outside you need no math.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

That math checks out, so logical and never even thought of it. Thanks @USAACbrat

[@USAACbrat]

i as the sixth man on the Rifle team in HS; i scored a lot of targets@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper

[@Mooreinlife84]

Thanks for the video. I’m looking to get into PMR as a hobby so I’m trying to take in a bunch of information before I buy anything. I’m a member of the UNSC so maybe I’ll see you out there sometime.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Oh snap, a neighbor! I'm fairly new too, but spent way too much money figuring things out, happy to help save you money with any recommendations.

[@Mooreinlife84]

I appreciate that. One of the guys who is a point of contact for UNSC is going to let me come to an event at TSC and also shoot his Ruger RPR. I’m honestly a noob at all the lingo but I’m trying to learn. I’m thinking about the Ruger Custom shop 6.5CM or maybe a tikka t3 tac but had made no decisions or figured optics. My biggest hurdle will be my skill or lack there of 😆. No ego here sir haha.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

The custom definitely has some upgrades to my stock RPR, but I'd be willing to let you out rounds through my RPR, Savage, or my Tikka T3 lite. The Tikka just has a hunting stock, but you can get a feel for the action (pretty smooth), trigger, and accuracy.

[@Oldhogleg]

I still prefer the 260 REM over the 6.5CM because I can hand load it with the Sierra 150gr HPBTMK. My ARMALITE AR10T has a custom 1/7 twist BBL.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

I've never shot the .260. Similar recoil and ballistics to 6.5CM? Hollow points, I'm assuming you use it to hunt? What are you taking with it?

[@georgeholt8929]

Let me add some food for thought, Accurate shooting is a two-step process, first how accurate is the rifle? So, for me I would test a rifle from a bench supporting the rifle with a sturdy support under the forearm, and I prefer using a single monopod mounted at the real of the butt stock to ensure absolute stable sight alignment, or view of the crosshairs as close to centered to the bullseye for each shot. After you are satisfied your chosen firearm is sighted in and is shooting at its best then you can test the skills of the shooter. Then you can switch out the monopod for a rear bag. Rain has virtually no effect on bullet flight, so you can shoot in the rain any time. As far as group size goes if you are comparing the accuracy of two different calibers you measure from the center of each bullet pass through the target, when you're testing two different rifles of the same caliber you used the correct method. Nice shooting, I enjoyed your presentation.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

George, you obviously put a lot of time and effort into that comment, thank you very much. Yes, I've seen the benchrest shooters at the club and some of their vises look extremely stable, basically take most of the shooter out of the equation. I'm just not yet comfortable at the table, something to work on. As the weather is getting nicer, the range has become much more populated so I've been doing the videos out in the woods. I will say that the rifles are capable of better accuracy than I currently am. I seem to pull one of five shots in 90% of my groups. All me, not the rifle. Now that I've tested different factory ammo I'll go set an actual zero and start working out to range. We'll do more shooting with different support systems, whether lead sled, bags, backpacks, hunting sticks, etc.

[@Weatherby406]

Ask the guys testing ammo at Hornady how many true half inch guns they have seen. They are extremely rare. They said they have never seen a 1/4 inch rifle yet. One 3 shot group under an inch doesn’t really mean anything. Needs to be many more shots and do it every time. According to their data you can’t even truly zero a rifle without doing a 20-30 shot group.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Yes, anyone can get lucky once with a three shot group. I obviously prefer the five shot group. I think for 99% of us though a 30 shot group is in excess. If we are pretty consistent with five shot groups I think we can trust the zero.

[@Dom6636-1]

Rear bag needed i think ,you get less thrown shots

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Indeed. I started using a bag after the first group and I'm sure it's no coincidence they were better groups.

[@DDDYLN]

BTW, I was debating whether to buy an expensive AR-10 in 300 win mag, versus a far less expensive mag fed, bolt action, long range rifle. I asked my ex Army Ranger friend, who owns a firearm training facility, which made more sense. He was very clear about buying a bolt action rifle for long distance rounds, as oppsed to an expensive semiautomatic rifle for 3 times the price, despite a shorter barrel. I'm a large, heavy muscular guy. But, when it comes to recoil through a long range scope, I'm 95% sure I could not acquire the target for a follow-up shot, at 1,000_yd+. If I can't aquire the target with a semiautomatic, what's the point of having a semiautomatic long range rifle?

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

I haven't done a video on it yet, but the rifle inhinted with last year is a CVA Cascade in 300 WM. It's made in Bergara Spain, in the Bergara factory so essentially an off branded Bergara barrel and action. I've only ranged it to 600 yards but it was very consistent. Comes with an MOA guarantee of tested in the first 14 days. And only cost about $700. Not a preciolsuon rifle, but another inexpensive option with good accuracy. You don't get the chassis experience with all the adjustability that you would othba precision rifle though. Also, it seems intuitive to zoom all the way in at long range, but back out to 15-18 zoom for better spotting of your shots. Gives you a larger field of vision to observe your splash or hits. Same would goneven for your semiautomatic. My bolt actions all have at least 25 power zoom and my two semiautomatic .308s both have 3-18 power. They can be used effectively at long range but I just view them more as shorter range individual targets or longer range area target weapons.

[@DDDYLN]

@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper that's a nice rifle for hunting. The only issue I see with basic hunting rifles, is the lack of ability to add a decent bipod. I know they make bipods that attach directly to the barrel. I'm not sure I would do that. That seems like a recipe for screwing up your barrel and accuracy. I'm not a large game hunter. That's not by choice. I have a pretty severe mobility disability, I'm divorced (she divorced me because I became disabled), and I live in a 2 bedroom, 2 bath condo. It's a very large condo, because I needed space for my daughter and my dog. Unfortunately, there's no room for a meat freezer. And even if there was, I have no place to hang a deer for butchering. Even with my mobility disabilities, I could still hunt if I had a 4 wheeler to get to a tree stand. Unfortunately, divorce took away my house, and ruined all of those opportunities. I don't like saying it on KZbin, but buying a long range rifle, would be for a SHTF scenario. You can take that for what you think it means. Let's just say there's value in the ability to hit a target at a long distance. AR-15's are great, but they're relatively short range rifles. BTW, Ruger sells a very similar rifle for roughly the same price. I have no idea which rifle is better. I know Ruger has a good warranty, and a lot of people trust their firearms. I'm considering buying a Ruger Redhawk 8 round 357 magnum, because it's much less expensive than the Smith & Wesson alternatives. I'm used to the S&W chamber release, but I'm sure I could get used to Ruger's toggle.

[@mohsenraghian210]

What scopes do you have on them rifles?

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Hey, thanks for the question. Both are from Arken. The first is the EP5 and the second one is the SH4. Nearly the same scope, just better glass on the EP5. Both 5-25x55 first focal planes.

[@piercem56]

We need to understand that precision rifles have inconsistencies attributed by many different factors that are not always shooter induced. If I had a quarter for every person who blamed a “flyer” on their error I would be filthy rich. Some guns are close but just can’t do what an m40a3 and a5 can do that’s why there is a drastic price difference between the two rifles seen here and that issued to our military.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

@piercem56 I can't completely disagree with you that not all shooter errors are shooter errors, but I'd much rather have the quarter when someone blames the gun for a shooter error. I'm pretty confident that I am an 80% MOA shooter and that if I sat behind a $15,000 F Class rifle we'd find I'm still only an 85% shooter and I'm still going to pull shots either breaking the shot too soon, pulling the trigger, anticipating recoil, not relaxing eyes, holding breath too long trying to stable, etc. I think either one of these rifles are great options for beginners and it will be a couple years before I switch to blaming the rifles. That's going to get expensive lol. Thank you for the for interesting perspective though. Again, you're not wrong.

[@roguemodel]

I shoot the Ruger my scope is a Vortex Razor. The scope makes all the difference. I looked at the EP5, but while a fine scope, it just did not have a clear reach.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

I've looked at the Razor 4.5-27 a few times, I just can't bring myself to spend the $2,000+ on it. I have a Strike Eagle i5n one of my rifles and love it. I assume the Razor is amazing.

[@donkeziah2564]

What was your barrel prep before starting to shoot for groups?

[@michaelhill6451]

I took my dad shooting my Tikka CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor. It was his 3rd time ever shooting a firearm and he shot a 0.19 MOA 5-shot group. That's still slightly better than the best group I've ever shot with it. Infuriating...

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Wow, your dad is a natural. Shooting off a bipod or rest? 100 yards? Did he go out to any distance? Remind me not to bet him lunch for best group!

[@michaelhill6451]

@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper Shooting off of a bipod with a rear bag. This was at 100 yards. If it were 3 shots, I'd say it was probably a fluke but holding such a tiny group together for 5 shots your 3rd time shooting a firearm is crazy. I mean, before that he'd probably fired 50 rounds in his life total. I took him out to a long range shooting range his second time shooting though and he made back to back hits on an 18"x18" plate at 700 yards. That's pretty good for your second time shooting.

[@jebbum1998]

Good shooting, I don’t believe you pull 1 out of every 5 have you look d at which shot number is the flyer in all the groups?

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

No, I haven't done the research since I've been recording to see if there's any consistency in my inconsistency. I think I randomly pull one almost every group.

[@Mj-CWO4]

You had me interested until you said 6.5 cm

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Well dang Chief, hard to please everyone lol. What caliber are you interested in?

[@Mj-CWO4]

@@mirandaralston6582 how do you know what I’m thinking, I’m thinking 270, I’m just tired of hearing how great the 6.5cm is.

[@ontargetthomunclesam3926]

Maybe your scope should be forward on the rail and maybe the ocular won't be in your eye or try shooting without the tarp and let your scope gather light will increase your eye relief

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

The eye relief is correct where it is. If I move the scope forward I start to lose the image while zooming in. The issue is not the scope placement, it's only the addition of the three inch camera behind it. I don't always shoot with the camera added, and if I wasn't doing videos there wouldn't be a camera in there at all. It's a minor detail and I just have to make sure I account for it with eye pro. Thank you for the feedback though, I appreciate you trying to help.

[@ontargetthomunclesam3926]

@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper absolutely

[@joepinkley379]

Use a rear sandbag and you'll be able to yield much better groups

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

I don't point it out specifically but every group except the very first group is using a rear bag.

[@damham5689]

I think the important question is, will the deer care ?

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

I think that deer do concern themselves with the accuracy of the weapon being fired at them, yes. If I'm being hunted and no access to medical care afterward, I would hope for an accurate, ethical shot with the hopes of a fast and easy death. Also, that's a heavy hunting rifle. If someone is hunting with either of these rifles I hope they don't skip arm day.

[@MichaelDFarrellJr]

The EP5 is interesting on paper, but I was not comfortable with the eye relief, at all! You're getting scoped on a 6.5CRM and I had mine on a 300PCR - I was SO paranoid that I'd meet the same experience. That optic now lived on the shelf. Maybe I'll be more content with it on a rimfire.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

That's a heck of a scope on a 22lr lol. I'm only getting scopes because the Tactacam adds about two inches to the back of the scope. Have you tried moving it forward a notch or two and dialing out the eye relief in the eyepiece? It is a nice scope and sucks if it's just not practical for you.

[@MichaelDFarrellJr]

@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper Yup - mounted as far forward as possible. Maybe I've been spoiled having longer eye relief optics, but making contact under heavy recoil was always sticking out in the back of my mind. Also I've always used my non-dominant eye for observing my level on my scope tube, being so close to the ocular lens on the EP5 made it more difficult. I'm thinking a 22LR trainer built out to similar dimensions of a larger caliber rifle- Similar to a bergara B14 series rifles - full size ergos and heavy taper barrel, but much less $ to shoot and maybe play at some 22LR matches, to boot.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

@@MichaelDFarrellJr Sounds like a cool rifle build, sometimes I enjoy a good amount of overkill. But it does serve a purpose for training.

[@ericlaplante7326]

I have the sh4 on my Savage 110 elite precision 308 , ive had 0 issues with eye relief. I run Ep5's on both of my competition. 22lr's ( cz 457 and Rim x) with no issues .

[@richardoliver1468]

Thank you for the video. The view of the target was blurry.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Yes it is, in haven't had the best of luck with the quality of the Tactacam. There's a lot of adjusting the diopter and previewing on a phone screen, but then when editing video I see it's not the greatest footage. Especially in the weather conditions that day being so wet. We'll keep doing the best with what we have and continue to improve equipment as the channel grows. Thanks for the feedback.

[@keithprinn720]

how can you do that level of accuracy with so much shake? no chance. glad you say with a great shooter they are both contenders.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

I know a lot of the pros or F-Class shooters tear these guns apart, but for a beginner I think these are great, affordable rifles. Either one of these are a rifle that I can grow into for some time. Out of the box they are shooting MOA with me behind them. I think someone like me is their target audience, a leaner or someone gaining experience, and these rifles will out shoot me for quite some time.

[@chrisaguirre7018]

being scoped constantly and not repeating the same rest pattern makes most of this information nearly unusable.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Well hopefully I scoped myself enough so you won't have to.

[@jaypatrus4077]

Will smith was aiming at a fly cross the continent 😅

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

...and shot it's wings off while curving the bullet. Oh, wait, getting my movies confused now.

[@Patrick-xd8jv]

You really need to hand load to see what they will do and tune the load’s to the rifle

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Agreed. We will get there soon(ish)

[@roynave9212]

I don't think will Smith could make a 100ft shot on a Hasbro train.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Will Smith is better with bare hands slapping.

[@palsennerud9992]

Some it’s the shouter it’s not steady enough

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Definitely on the shooter. I'm working on getting more stable and consistent. Obviously true that newer shooters add variables to a platform.

[@YotaDaryl]

Stopped watching at....scoped myself

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Thank you for watching as long as you did. Appreciate the feedback.

[@donkeziah2564]

Where is your "Lead Sled" or your rear bag or a steady front platform for your bipod? Why do people with "Precision" rifles and decent scopes want to shoot groups at 100 yards? I'm not very good at shooting but for load development I will not shoot at less than 300 yards or accept a load that shoots over 1-1/2" at 300 yards and I'm shooting a M12 Savage 308 that is thrice rebarreled action with a 2-1/4 lb trigger.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I think 100 yards is a good zero, and a good place to start grouping. If you can't group at 100, certainly can't group at 300. If you're already into 1/2 MOA reloads at 300 yards, you might be more advanced than many shooters out there which is why we start out at 100. Obvious6yjats not our end goal with a long range precision rifle, but we all need to start somewhere. As for the lead sled, not trying to use a lead sled in the prone. Grabbed a rear bag for all the groups except the first. I don't always practice perfect scenarios. Yes going for small groups and when off hand support was not enough I adjusted to the bag.

[@donkeziah2564]

@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper With a factory rifle, new scope etc after breaking a barrel in I bore sight and shoot at about 50 to 75 yards then I'll go to 100 and then jump to 300. The longest distance my home range. After getting satisfaction @ 300 I go to 600 with a target rifle. A hunting rifle I don't go past 300 as I know of no place in my area there isn't a 300 yd. shot.

[@willsimpson3848]

Where are you shooting in capital forest that you can shoot 100 yards

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

There are multiple places you can find a dead end service road with a 100 to 200 yard lane, many with natural backstops. Most of the "pits" are only 50 to 75 yards. There is a pit on the west side along the power lines that is small, but it's at the end of the road that leads into it and along the road you can get up to 500 yards at about 5 degrees downhill. If you park along the main road you can get to about 680 yards using the top of the pit as a backstop. Happy hunting, the spots are out there.

[@MontanaWild78]

Who farted?

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

He who smelt it dealt it...

[@Okrifleman]

Do yourself a favor and shoot a 30 shot group. You will find a lot fewer “pulled shots” and learn the true distribution pattern for your rifle and load. Sorry guys, no one has a 1/2” gun. No one.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

If I average 1 shot every group of 5, my math says I'd have an extra 5 pulled shots. Also, shooting a 30 round group sounds like that game at the fair that you try to shoot the red star out of the paper to win a prize. If you're shooting a 1 MOA group of 30 rounds at .308 inch each you'd just have one giant hole with a few flyers. Not sure the analytical value of that pattern. Not sure what you mean that no one has a 1/2 inch gun?

[@josephcoffman2441]

You need a rear bag for those type of testing.

[@TheProcrastinatingPrepper]

Good call Joseph. It may not be visible, but everything after the first group is shot with a rear bag.