Will they set the standard for Sustainability?

[@fabianluethi03]

Every ebike is sustainable compared to using a SUV for short distances xD

[@Propelbikes]

Totally agree on that!

[@SuperHyperExtra]

I agree. And every bike is sustainable compared to using an ebike for any distance. ;-)

[@Nphen]

@@SuperHyperExtra With a mass disabling event going on, a pedal-only bike is not "sustainable" for the human beings who need mobility. The further the distance, the better an ebike is in terms of time efficiency. Something we cannot buy back. The survival of the biosphere and health of the global workforce should not rest upon consumers feeling guilty. Mining, globally, must be cleaned up. Palm & soy oil in our foods replaced with hemp seed oil. Recycling tech is getting better, but we need nationwide logistics to connect disparate local recycling centers to proper facilities. Relying on companies to "do the right thing" and have to charge a lot more is not a sustainable business practice. They get bought off, or remain niche.

[@drill_fiend1097]

​​@@SuperHyperExtragatekeeping people away for using an ebike is a way to turn them off from being interested in cycling as transportation. Old people, people with mobility issues and non-athletics will never be convinced to cycle if it wasn't for eBikes. An eBike commuter is doing more for sustainability than a road cyclist or a MTBer who carries their 10k+ carbon pedal bike around behind humongous Ford Raptor or Dodge Ram.

[@SonovaStitch]

Traditional bikes have a much larger carbon footprint per mile than an e-bike. And due to fancy alloys etc many traditional bikes can't be recycled.

[@lkj974]

When I saw the title, I wasn't sure if you meant sustainable in the sense of being able to get replacement parts and keep the bike on the road or sustainable in the broader ecological sense. With so many small and large ebike companies proliferating and so many DTC bikes, the first kind of sustainability could be a real problem. When I started to see DTC bikes with batteries integrated to the frame or otherwise not standard, with controllers that were inaccessible and proprietary, I asked myself: what if the company goes out of business? What if they don't supply replacement parts for older bikes? Anyway, this video is clearly mostly about sustainability in the second sense. Perhaps you should do a video about the first kind of sustainability as well. Which, when you come to think of it, also impacts the second kind of sustainability. If a bike becomes a brick after five years because the controller burned out, or you can't get a compatible battery, then it is unsustainable in both senses.

[@Propelbikes]

You bring up an excellent point, and I completely agree. Sustainability isn't just about the environmental impact but also the longevity and repairability of a bike. With so many DTC brands and proprietary components, it can be a real concern if a company doesn't support their older models or goes out of business. A bike that's built to last but can't be maintained over time loses its sustainability in both senses, as you said. I love the idea of doing a video focused on this kind of sustainability-it’s such an important topic, and I'd definitely want to explore how to choose bikes that are not only eco-friendly but also built to stay on the road for the long haul. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@highwayman15]

​@@Propelbikes: (Three Paragraphs) At the least let's start with standardizing the lithium power cells, work our way up to standardizing the battery packs, and then standardizing the controllers. Then any improvements on these should be engineered to be backwardly compatible for any older ebike. Let the example of optical discs be our guide. Take the Blu-ray player: not only does it play Blu-ray discs, it also plays DVD's, and it plays the original optical discs that started it all: the CD's. We should also modulize the parts so consumers can upgrade their present ebikes to current standards with minimal fuss.

[@michaeldice8779]

Totally agree, own a Supercharger myself that has been in the shop multiple times and repairs are super frustrating. Only the dealer can repair it and it takes forever to get parts needed. Last problem I had took 7 weeks to fix. Not sure how long the batteries and motor will last with heavy usage, 40+/day. If they stop supporting the parts of my bike then I now have a very expensive boat anchor.

[@Clickworker101]

It’s great that Riese and mueller takes this serously. Hope your project to revitalise your American bike industry is fruitful.

[@litvinenkoalexander5331]

Just see old Dutch bikes, some of them are 40-50-60 years old, they weight 12-14 kg, you can repair 98% of them, the maintenance cost is very low

[@rogersinclair2772]

The only bike I have that I consider to be fully sustainable is my father's 1929 steel frame, 26-inch (650B) steel rim wheels, 3-speed hub gear, Rudge Whitworth, The frame will last forever, as will the hub gear if kept lubricated by occasional injection of sewing machine oil. All other components are generic. And before anyone harps on about roadsters I would say that my father, as a young man, regularly rode a return journey of 225 miles in a weekend to see his granny and a 170 miles return to see his girlfriend. If I wanted a e-bike I would seriously consider a Dutch "omafiets" converted to electric with something like a Nano front wheel motor and using generic 36V 4Ah power tool batteries.

[@JasperJanssen]

@@rogersinclair2772those are *very* generic batteries. Something like the Bosch power pack system is generic *enough* - there’s a lot of them both first and second hand and the cells can be replaced individually if needed as well. And I think they’re dumb enough batteries that you *could* just use them as generic 36V batteries with your own motor - although possibly there’s a safety disconnect if you don’t have the real Bosch network on your bike.

[@magnusskallagrimsson6707]

I do appreciate R&M's commitment to sustainability and quality. What I would like to see is a commitment to bringing their prices down so Working Class people can take part in owning high quality, sustainable bikes without breaking our meager bank accounts. THAT is what will truly make the difference in how people get around.

[@colincampbell4261]

High German wages.

[@eveastardust3747]

I hear you. I am working class for real, below average wage. I sold my 2008 Prius in 2020 and bought a R&M load 60 for over 11k. I have much more money in my pocket for groceries and rent because I lost the car insurance, reg/smog, repair and gas. Ppl are getting scammed by cars, it adds up!

[@SomeGuyWhoPlaysGames333]

Even if the initial cost of a e-bike was high, it’s still cheaper than the initial and lifetime cost of owning a car by several country miles.

[@badabing8884]

Himiway? Their A7 pro looks very good value for money.

[@magnusskallagrimsson6707]

@@colincampbell4261 I am all on board for better wages.

[@simseven4967]

In bike industry the missing link is standard and that‘s a problem because of compatability between bike parts. Every company has a propietary things which disappear from the market after a short period of time so they force you to buy new products and are extremely overpriced. Producing parts in Asia are sustainable?🤔hm And what about batteries, why there are no universal batteries? For each model you need specific battery🤭😂 At the end of the day this so called sustainability is a joke and behind the curtains just money grab left

[@Nphen]

Like everything, the problems boil down to "Late stage capitalism would rather increase short-term profits than ensure the survival of the human race" and Americas are so brainwashed they think the answer to neoliberal capitalism is more capitalism. This ridiculous patent & copyright system must be shut down. Whomever makes the best product will win. Solo inventors almost never get properly paid for their inventions.

[@rogersinclair2772]

With regard to bicycle sustainability. I have two SRAM hub gear equipped bikes. SRAM have exited the hub gear business so, for instance, sprockets are no longer available and are unique to SRAM hubs. Other manufacturers sprockets are not compatible. I managed to procure three 24T SRAM sprockets as I consider the sprockets on a high mileage bike to be a consumable item similar to chains and tyres. Problem solved except now the 7-speed Spectro twist grip shifter has failed after 2500 miles. The shifter and the cable are an integral item and no longer available. The only solution now is to buy a new rear wheel , cassette and shifter to convert the bike to a derailleur system and junk the perfectly good wheel with the hub gear The other SRAM equipped Brompton with 13/15T sprockets will soon need expensive mods when the existing sprockets need replacing. The annoying thing is that Brompton has a super parts availability for it's past models as long as the third party components are still made. They got caught by the demise of Sturmey Archer some 20 years ago, which is when they switched to SRAM. The bike industry has become almost a fashion industry. See said Brompton. Fifty or sixty years ago bikes were sold as a lifetime investment but sadly they are now becoming a disposable item like the rest of our societies throw-away junk. In spite of the green messaging there is not a lot of real sustainability. You can see this in the use of proprietary components such as said shifters. The old down-tube friction shifters were interchangeable. A friction shifter is a friction shifter. Even my 50 year old Dawes Galaxy, with 531 steel tublng is practically obsolete due to having 27-inch wheels which are becoming hard to source when the alloy rims are worn down by long term brake application. The only bike I have that I consider to be fully sustainable is my father's 1929 steel frame, 26-inch (650B) steel rim wheels, 3-speed hub gear, Rudge Whitworth, The frame will last forever, as will the hub gear if kept lubricated by occasional injection of sewing machine oil. All other components are generic. And before anyone harps on about roadsters I would say that my father, as a young man, regularly rode a return journey of 225 miles in a weekend to see his granny and a 170 miles return to see his girlfriend. No way would I consider buying a very expensive e-bike because I do not consider them to be a good lifetime investment. Too many proprietary components and batteries and the aluminium frames have a limited life. A hard used aluminium frame will eventually be subject to possible stress fracture with a safe life of maybe 10 years. E-bike frames are generally, though not always, subject to higher stress than a pure pedal cycle. Just look at the servicing requirements of Brompton that recommend replacing such items as alloy cranks, handlebars, hinge plates, at 5000 mile intervals. A aluminium frame might well outlast me but that is not really the point. A brazed steel frame really will last a lifetime if kept polished and stored in the dry. If I wanted a e-bike I would consider a Dutch "omafiets" converted to electric with something like a Nano front wheel motor, using generic 36V 4Ah power tool batteries or 10Ah battery. As for Reise and Muller, well I think their bikes are vastly over engineered. I would question the necessity for that level of complexity. I would also be terrified to leave such an expensive, and desirable, machine parked on the street. Bad enough with a Brompton but at least you can take that with you. All the rambling above just IMHO.

[@solarheat9016]

@@rogersinclair2772 I'll build you some 27" wheels with any hub you can dream of. No problem.

[@Clickworker101]

Yeah a standard bike has around 200kg co2 from Production. About the same as 20 t- shirts 👚. This is very small cause often you use your bike for multiple years.

[@Propelbikes]

Great point! The carbon footprint of bike production is relatively low, especially when you consider how long a bike can last and how much it replaces car trips, which significantly reduces overall emissions. It's also interesting to think about the comparison with everyday items like t-shirts. Over the lifespan of a bike, especially if used regularly, the environmental benefits really add up!

[@ethanswanson9209]

Most bike companies certainly couldn’t do this kind of systematic thinking about their sustainability. Glad one that has the capability is choosing to do so. If e-bikes become disposable products that end up in canals after 6 years, they will be less environmentally friendly. More importantly, their perception as environmentally friendly will tank. Hopefully R&M can pioneer great strategies that others can adopt.

[@cadriver2570]

I mean, when you charge $10,000 for an e-bike that sustainability is only able to reach a niche market. They should find a way to reduce prices to have a larger sustainability impact.

[@sunwukong6917]

I would love to ride a bike everywhere....the infraestructure is simply not safe in my country...cars have ruined everything

[@Propelbikes]

I hear you, and it's really unfortunate that a lack of safe infrastructure holds so many people back from cycling. Hopefully, with more advocacy and demand, we’ll start seeing changes that make biking a safer and more viable option for everyone. Stay hopeful, and keep pushing for better infrastructure-it can make a difference!

[@maryl.7226]

R&M - such wonderful e-bikes, so out of reach for most ebike riders. I’d love to have one but simply can’t pull it out of my truly disciplined lifestyle and budget. Glad for those who can, though!

[@MyLifeInTheDesert]

The other problem is having a local distributor which is difficult in small to medium size cities here in the US

[@Propelbikes]

I totally understand where you're coming from. Riese & Müller bikes are definitely an investment, but they offer incredible quality, technology, and durability. For some, it's worth it in the long run, especially if they rely on it as their primary mode of transport. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@maryl.7226]

@@MyLifeInTheDesert A very important factor for when any services or replacements are necessary!

[@maryl.7226]

@@Propelbikes True, for sure. I saw one once and about drooled at the precision craftsmanship, design, etc. But my $1000 Denago + Tannus liners and essential accessories is an investment as well, without digging into money I shouldn’t dig into. And my riding goes well, like a Dodge vs. a Bentley, admittedly! 😆

[@MD-tr1yv]

There are bike paths on most of the roads I like to ride, but my area is so car dependent I have to ride very defensively. This company seems like they have a good vision

[@garyseckel295]

Both beautiful company and products!!! Also, thank you for your video use of enlarged Closed Captions! Steel frames preferred here too.

[@ph5915]

There R&M bikes are top level, but sheesh, they are really expensive ... Sigh.

[@eudymonia]

It's great that a company like R&M can exist that does everything right, which is reflected in the costs. You simply can't pay good wages, source the components thoughtfully, use the best tech out there, and come out with a 1k bike. So it's good that enough consumers are out there that can afford what R&M is selling. I hope their sustainability initiative doesn't end up making their bikes look cheap though. Superdelite 5 is looking rough with that cardboard ass looking battery cover.

[@rhdsyay]

Norway does produce aluminium but Portugal does not. In the Asia and Portugal example there should be another step where Portugal gets its aluminium.

[@matthewthomas4620]

Kind-of makes me want one of their bikes now... just need to save up

[@Propelbikes]

Glad to hear you're inspired! Their bikes are definitely worth saving up for. Hope you get to enjoy the ride when the time comes!

[@Bandit1379.]

This was cool, but I'm surprised the battery (the most unsustainable elephant in the room?) wasn't mentioned.

[@glib4233]

I thought you were gonna discuss the proprietary motors and batteries.

[@Bieffe]

Sarah said it all so well. Love❤

[@Propelbikes]

Totally agree, Sarah nailed it! Glad you enjoyed. 🙌

[@2nd3rd1st]

Sadly their sustainable dishes in their canteen apparently don't include vegan food according to your guest, but only vegetarian options. Vegan plant based food is the most sustainable and ethical option as it excludes all the unsustainable and unethical production steps of animal agriculture, from abusive breeding and husbandry to the cruel slaughter, that are also necessary for vegetarian food, including the much higher carbon foot print and environmental pollution compared to vegan farming. Vegetarianism is rarely recognised as misleading marketing of the farming industry that mostly aims at selling more unsustainable and cruelty based dairy, eggs, honey, gelatine, leather, etc. to "ethical" consumers.

[@Clickworker101]

I like aluminium because it lasts in the rain.

[@Propelbikes]

Aluminum is great for its durability and resistance to rust, making it perfect for bikes that see a lot of wet weather. It’s definitely a reliable material for long-lasting performance, especially if you're riding in the rain regularly.

[@rogersinclair2772]

@@Propelbikes With respect, is aluminium a long lasting material for bike frames? I am not a engineer, but my understanding is that a hard used aluminium frame can become subject to stress fracture after possibly 10 years. A electric bike frame will be, but not always, subject to more stress than a pedal cycle. I am thinking particularly of Brompton service recommendations that quote replacement of alloy cranks, handlebars, hinge plates, at 5000 mile intervals. A brazed steel frame really will last a lifetime, and will not rust if kept polished and stored in the dry. Plenty of Dutch steel frame roadsters have spent 60 or 70 years being ridden in the rain. And the Netherlands is a wet country.

[@drill_fiend1097]

Aluminum is resistant to rust, but also succumbs quickly to metallic fatigue compared to cromo steel. Titanium is the best of two worlds and often considered "long term," but not cheap to get.

[@HarryLovesRuth]

*Heads up for those with small folks:* October 9th is Bike & Walk to School Day. It's like Critical Mass for getting to school. (Ours also has free donuts and those glow necklaces.) If you don't have anything official happening at your kids' schools, you can organize your neighbors into a bike bus or a walking school bus. It's absolutely okay to drive to a place that's safe for the active transportation part, too.

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks for the heads up! Bike & Walk to School Day is such a great initiative, and it sounds like your community has some fun elements planned!

[@julieflagg9171]

I am a 74 yo physician who commutes 30 miles per day in New England year round . I have cycled my entire life but had to stop because of knee pain 2’ to arthritis 7 years ago I started riding e bike. My reise mueller nevo 3 is my 3rd e bike. The first was a Raleigh ($2,600) - I ran through that in a couple of years and the second bike a kit on a Fuji . I wore out the chains , cassettes , and breaks every 1,500 miles. Repairs were expensive, and breakdowns very inconvenient and stressful. The R-M Neva has been altogether different with the belt drive. It is a stable solid bike. While it is expensive initially, the maintenance is minimal. I am safer riding home late at night in the wind and rain with fabulous lights, great breaks. I trust the bike . Last summer I filled the gas tank twice, this summer 3 time. I drive a little mini cooper. 80% of my travel is on the nevo. For a heavy bicycle user the reise mueller wins because it’s great design , great maintenance (propel - Brooklyn , USA) . We are about to be a one vehicle family. I the end I would have spent less money if I bought the nevo first. A superb bicycle and a delight to ride.

[@user619tlsdca5]

Yes, there are 100s of private or 1 man companies buying ebike kits and ebikes from Alibaba of mass quantities to get cheap prices to sell again on Amazon. Some even will change their brand names when things go south of lawsuits. Its a gamble of these sales but most times the product is ok but there are sellers selling crap of a 4 % ratio.

[@alxk3995]

There are so many huge companies that have enough resources to push in that direction but they just don't want to. Great to see examples if how it can be done. ✌️

[@Propelbikes]

It’s always refreshing to see brands leading the way and showing what’s possible when sustainability is a priority. Hopefully, more will follow their example!

[@sketchin6993]

Super cool bikes, but the costs are the price of a good used car. I'm hoping for the day you can buy one at an affordable price 👍

[@barbararamsbottom113]

When will R & M make an upright reverse trike. I only have one eye and find I cannot balance on two wheels. I would love an R & M trike with all the latest technology. Any chance?

[@drill_fiend1097]

Reverse trike needs more love. Stable on corners unlike "forward" trike and front loading bakfiets can benefit from having wheels on sides, hence being able to extend the length of basket without front wheel coming out.

[@pikexking]

Cube has a cargo bike trike!

[@billhemingway5558]

I have the Tinker 2, it's my favorite bike. I want to use it a long time, and after riding it 5000 miles the 1st year I think it's a great bike that will last me and serve me well. It's good to know so much thought goes into sustainability.

[@Propelbikes]

That’s awesome! The Tinker 2 is such a versatile bike, and 5,000 miles in the first year is impressive! It’s great to hear how well it’s holding up for you. They really do put a lot of thought into sustainability and long-lasting design, so it sounds like you’ve got a bike that will serve you well for years to come

[@scmcarthur]

Great information, Thanks Propel

[@Propelbikes]

You're very welcome! I'm glad you found the information helpful. If you have any more questions or topics you'd like to explore, feel free to ask!

[@TwoWheelWarrior]

Riese & Müller. "Ebikes for the 1%."

[@misterwizz5690]

Surely at the end of the day people want 'Value for Money' and a larger network of retailers who can actually service and fix (not having to wait weeks and months) the bike within a reasonable timeframe, at affordable prices. It would also be nice to have a much larger selection of colours.

[@analbumfromhell1842]

Next thing for sustainability could be modular bottoms brackets/motor mounts. R&M uses Bosch mid drive motors, but they have different mounts for each generation. Modular design woul allow you to order different mount for different mid drive

[@philipbyrne3037]

Great video! Bike Shop Girl is making similar content and is now a full time KZbinr. Also congratulations to Riese and Muller. They are showing the way for European e mobility companies to compete with China. The German Auto industry is currently in a state of high anxiety because companies like VW have stumbled competing with Tesla and China. Thanks Chris!

[@karlInSanDiego]

Great video and discussion. Appreciate all of R&M's efforts. Hydroformed aluminum is a big offender in the bike building emissions war. Important to remember (especially when reading your bombastic headline) that if an e-bike is built to last a very long time, and is easily maintained and repaired regardless of the existence of the original manufacturer still making a given part, then it is very much a sustainable product, because it is the lowest emissions form of transport. I think it might be fair to argue that disposable e-bikes are very unsustainable. So what is Riese & Müller doing to ensure that these bikes are viable to use in 25 years. I suspect the interchangeable part nature of bike design is the key to sustainability that car (EV) transportation cannot claim. Modern EV cars are likely to become obsolete much sooner than classic cars, because their proprietary parts and reliance on complex software will make them impossible to keep on the road as the mfgrs flame out or focus on new products and stop supporting older ones. The only parts on R&M bikes that would risk their future repairability is proprietary Bosch battery and motor mounting. Interestingly, this is where conversion motors like Bafang and Tongsheng, that fit in any bottom bracket are actually more sustainable, IMO. You could build a bike with those components, rebuild them when a part fails, and even move them over to a new frame should that fail. That would represent true sustainability when most all bike parts including motor and battery are interchangeable. But we love our Bosch motors, so for now, we'll risk the proprietary mounting. Could be a place where they work to really ensure longer usefulness of all e-bikes. Most e-bike batteries are simple 48V two lead connection to the system, keeping them very non-proprietary. But Shimano and some others, require the BMS to have a data signal back to the rest of the system, making bikes with those batteries far more challenging to support down the road.

[@jessta314]

Transport emissions for a product that will last for a decade aren't really that important. What is important is guaranteeing that product will still be repairable decades later. The real sustainability problem with e-bikes is the lack of standardization of parts. What happens to a Riese & Müller bike when Riese & Müller goes out of business?

[@rickgovek2715]

Love this!

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed it! 😊🚴‍♂

[@Clickworker101]

Schwalbe = Swallow 🐥

[@litvinenkoalexander5331]

I do not like companies which produce usual bikes for 4000-6000 euro, this is simply bullshit! This is more than a experienced programmer in Berlin is earning.

[@pikexking]

You buy one every month?

[@bertkreft9689]

Personally, I don't drive and I don't even have a license. The employees at Riese and Müller earn good money and most of them are car drivers. Engineers are technocrats and always search for a solution in construction. That is a superficial way of looking at things in a short term to improve sellings. I am a industrial designer with phd and I stand for a fundamental change in consumer habit. A holistic approach that contributes to a fundamental change in behavior would be desirable.

[@nicholasbrus8628]

We all like sustainability, but most of us can't afford it.

[@Benjaminimize]

That's a really nice workplace campus

[@kevinwhited984]

Makes me want a R&M even more.

[@wktodd]

OT. Would you happen to know if the delite rear rack would fit a super delite tour without replacing the tour rack/carrier?

[@MBdrummer3288]

I am in love with this beautiful woman! So so smart and passionate about her craft, it drives me wild!