Will Traditional Martial Arts Go Extinct? - Ft. Rokas Leonavičius of Martial Arts Journey

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thanks for having me Patrick! 🙏

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

My pleasure, Rokas! Had a blast, and thanks for sharing your insights! - Patrick

[@bujutsumontreal319]

Hi, I was just introduced to your channel through the video on cults. I think you raise very good points. One thing that bothers me with this video, and throughout the martial arts community, is that there is no definition of “traditional” martial arts. You (as a generic you) cant have a debate about something that is not defined. Most”traditional” martial arts that are taught today are nowhere near traditional, for example karate comes from Okinawa, but has been completely transformed (fallow karate nerd). Long discussion to be had...

[@calebworden2993]

Why do martial arts have to change why do they have to be modernized I would think that this pressure testing them and sparring with them would probably do enough

[@calebworden2993]

Kung fu Muay Thai the the ancient forum s and salat and a whole bunch of others it would take me forever to name them all but that's what I mean when I say traditional martial arts

[@younangrace]

Great video! Thanks a lot for publishing it . Also great collaboration with 2 great martial artists and critical thinkers

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Thanks for the comment, Adam! Glad you like it, and hope you are well 😊 - Patrick

[@JSMinstantcoaching]

Wow it was impossible both of you not to meet, very empowering moment, sending you my love.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Thanks, JSM! All the best to you 👍 - Patrick

[@alexandremainville6135]

The way Rokas can keep a critical thinking by seeking what hasn't been looked over or... thought over, is a very good way (if not the best way) to get down at the very bottom of any misconception or possible false belief. On a personal note, i think that you guys are both right. Rokas about TMAs not going totally instinct but shrinking to a certain minimum for people seeking tradition. On the other hand, Patrick about the fact that we cannot deny the *science of hand to hand combat* vs TMAs for their sake of tradition. People mostly seek martial arts for self confidence AND actual useful self defence. I also love the honesty talk about what TMA schools shouldn't claim to teach if they truly don't at the end of the day. If you can't apply it... don't teach it. Thanks for the awesome interview. 🙏

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

That pretty much sums it up! Thanks for the insightful comment, Alex 🙏 - Patrick

[@Ongyokage6389]

Great discussion!!! I think a huge problem within the martial arts community is not understanding the context in which the systems come from. As a practitioner and instructor of koryu systems, I teach kata and emphasize randori heavily. In doing so I feel it comes full circle. Meaning that back when these arts were developed it was brutally functional. So I personally don’t believe that TMA’s will ever go extinct however I do believe alot of the training methods will change depending on what the art is trying to convey. The only real difference between modern systems and traditional systems is the training methodology but to be honest I personally believe the way modern arts train is how traditional arts were originally trained.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Good point, BushidoBriggs, and congrats on your new channel! At the end of the day, we are all after the same thing: real fighting skills and the opportunity to improve ourselves through the journey. You are right, TMA were probably practiced much differently in the past; the problem is those who refuse to innovate will forever be doomed to repeat and sometimes amplify the errors of previous generations in the name of "tradition". In any case, I don't think it's beneficial to limit ourselves to certain styles, systems, or lineages. As true martial artists, we should simply learn everything that is useful, and do our best to share with our students. All the best! - Patrick

[@Yzwissac]

TMs won't go away. It has its deep roots: history, myth, legends, inheritance, records, and popularity. However, it's prosperity and sustainability lies in its adaptability through renovation and inclusiveness. It means, don't try to win its sustainability on heavy-contact ring fighting efficiency as its offsprings (MMA, boxing, Sanda, kickboxing) have a better hands. TM should try to get its feasibility of its own: community need of light-contact hand-to-hand combat/gaming as this provides enough body excercise, social interaction and entertainment while keeping personal injury at minimum.

[@kenf333]

Some TMA moves have been used in the ring in the UFC before.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

@@kenf333 Some Latin words are still used in English, French, or Spanish, but nobody except historians speaks it anymore...

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

I think safety in training is actually essential to effectiveness, so a proper and safe training methodology can be adapted to anyone of any fitness level. But it’s a fact that this is not always the case in most MMA gyms. That, too, needs to change IMO. - Patrick

[@kenf333]

@@EffectiveMartialArts Yes, but a few TMA moves have actually been used effectively in the UFC before (i think there's a video on it here on yt- Kung Fu in the UFC), and not just for the style points. But, you're right about most of it being dated and somewhat ineffective now. After all, science and realism has overtaken some of the older, more fantastical concepts we once possessed as a human society. Look up clips of Bob Munden, a gunslinger who possessed superhuman draw speed, and he was after the time of the Wild West. What we once possessed as a human society in terms of the dexterity of our limbs has been diminished over time due to an increased reliance on tools. You aren't wrong, therefore in stating that most of this stuff has become obsolete. Unless, there is a revolution of sorts and we witness ppl unlocking and channeling their chakra all over and flying in treetops or even to a lesser extent just being able to pull off a chain of moves you're right, it's mostly obsolete except for a few applications here and there with one or two niche techniques being useful in practicality. I'm guessing the flow of actual engagements were simpler back then. But, I doubt TMA will ever go extinct, as there will be efforts to preserve it even if it's merely in the spirit of it all.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

@@kenf333 Well said. Thanks for the input! 🙏

[@RicoMnc]

As long as strip malls have all over the US have MA schools catering to hoards of soccer moms and their kids, TMA will flourish.

[@sliderx1897]

Spite what u may think there are still lots of good quality traditional martial arts schools out there, and lots of effective traditional martial arts styles

[@RicoMnc]

@@sliderx1897 Yes, I know. I was being a bit of a wise guy, having some fun in the comments. The good ones recognize the what is necessary when training to fight, and offer that opportunity to those who desire it. It is a challenging balancing act to stay in business and be profitable.

[@sliderx1897]

@@RicoMnc totally especially in todays climate! Unfortunately its the corner mcdojo that gives the quality dojo a bad rap. What im enjoying is seeing the influx of traditional karate fighters starting to dominate the mma scene

[@RicoMnc]

@@sliderx1897 Yes, exactly. Tell Oliver Enkamp TMA doesn't work in MMA. I think he's 10-2 now, with at least one brutal submission he says he learned from Karate, not BJJ ( I train BJJ, not a hater).

[@sliderx1897]

@@RicoMnc Oliver Enkamp, Wonderboy Thompson, Weber Dealmeia, Sage Northcut, Vinicio Antony and of course our leader, Lyoto Machida! Traditional karate is the shit! Ppl just gotta stop judging it based on what they see in their 6 year olds mini tiger class... I mean do you judge the English language based Off the alphabet? Good to see a bjj guy that aint hatin on us! OSS👊🥋

[@navigatingel6104]

Traditional MA are based on, and revolve around WEAPONS more than they do hand to hand weapons fist fighting. It's real weapons with grappling added in

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Do they though? Although weapons are a part of most TMA systems, they usually claim to offer mostly solutions for hand-to-hand combat, at least that's been my experience...

[@martintanz9098]

I trained Tang Soo Do for 3 years in high school, and now I have 3 years of Tae Kwon Do, recently earned my 1st Dan black belt, and I am 55 years old. So I guess I come from a traditional Korean martial arts background. I get a lot out of my Tae Kwon Do practice, including a fair measure of fitness, well being, and a sense of community. I don't think my TKD school is a martial arts cult. My teacher does not promise his students super human powers if they train hard enough, nor does he ask people to do ridiculous or dangerous techniques, or make anyone eat spiders. He doesn't make unreasonable demands on our time beyond coming to class regularly. And he is realistic about what to expect. He tells students fitness is important. he tells us not to think just because you can hold your own in TKD fighting with TKD rules that you can go out on the street and beat a street fighter. He actually tells people they should walk away from a fight if they can. And he doesn't promise that his training alone will prepare his students to step into the ring to do MMA. I can see some of your criticism and we should should all take it to heart. Here is the problems with TKD as I see it . 1. TKD rules say no punches to the head. This is a problem if you want an effective striking system, and to be able to defend against street or bar fights, where the most typical move by untrained fighters is a hook or haymaker to the head. My teacher tries to deal with this by focusing on protecting the head by keeping the guard up. Still, since we don't really practice realistically, it is more a hope that the habit of keeping the left hand up protecting the head will actually work when put to the test. Is it good enough? I don't know. Better than nothing, but not as effective as training realistically. On the other hand, at age 55, I don't know how many blows I want to take to the head at my age. 2. The reliance on forms (or Poomsae, or Kata) for example, though I actually like it and see some value in preserving the tradition. But just forms practice will make you good at forms, not necessarily fighting. Probably the biggest issue with forms is, in my school, it is an important part of advancement is learning those forms. So I can see the criticism that a person who can fight but can't do forms will not advance, whereas a person who is great at forms but isn't a great fighter can. That is probably the biggest criticism I can see. In arts like BJJ, this is not possible, since belt advancements are based on fighting which involves application, not just knowledge of the curicullum. 3. lining up based on belt rank. And, that belt rank is a snap shot in time. And it isn't based on fighting ability, and does not differentiate children from adults. I do, frankly think it a bit ridiculous when, say an 8 or 10 year old child lines up at the head of a class of adults just because he or she has been practicing since he or she was 5 years old. Now, this situation is usually temporary since that same child will either continue to progress and at age 15 or 16 really will deserve his or her place at the front of the class, or he or she will leave. But still, you see it all the time, children lining up at the head of the class based on rank. Or the common case of an adult who achieved a rank, say 1st Dan, then took a couple of years off and comes back. I actually think making that person line up at the head of the class makes some of these people walk away rather than stick with it since they know they are either extremely rusty, out of shape, or both and shouldn't be standing ahead of someone who has been training, 3 or 4 days a week, every week for the last 2 or 3 years while the higher rank person has been doing nothing. That being said, this third point is fixable IMO. As for children, don't give children advanced ranks like black belts. Give them a different belt color then when they can hang with the adults black belts in sparring, award the black belt then and only then. And as for the second, if a person comes back and obviously needs practice before being capable of leading a class, have that person line up at the back of the class until he or she shows the proficiency he or she previously earned. 4. Not nearly enough close range combat, and no grappling at all. This is probably the most serious issue with TKD as a complete martial art. That said, I don't think everything we do in Tae Kwon Do is bullshit. You see TKD techniques in MMA, and many professional fighters come from a TKD background, so there is that.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, Martin. Indeed, you are right, and happy to hear there was no exploitation in your organization. Cult mentality is a separate issue than training effectiveness though; I have heard of certain schools in which the training is very effective, but the instructors still take advantage of the students in other ways... As for your last point, we often hear people cite the fact that prominent MMA fighters come from a TMA background. Question is, are these fighters succeeding BECAUSE of their previous training, or IN SPITE OF IT? - Patrick

[@martintanz9098]

@@EffectiveMartialArts well Patrick, we all need to get our start somewhere. You would have to be crazy to step into a cage with just a Karate or Tae Kwon Do background, but you will learn to kick, and to a lesser extent, ,punch in either art. The key thing as I see it is this. If you tell your Traditional martial arts Sensei, Sa bom nim, or Sifu after some years of training that you want to move onto to a modern martial art like MMA, boxing or BJJ,, either for sport, self defense, or self improvement, does that instructor wish you well and tell you there is always a place at his Dojo/Dojang should that person want to return, or does that person try to dissuade you, telling you there is no point learning another martial art because Kung Fu/Karate/Tae Kwon Do is the best fighting system in the world. Or even worse, shun you and even forbid his other students from communicating with you? If he does that, good chance your teacher is a cult leader.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

@@martintanz9098 Yeah, my experience was the latter.

[@martintanz9098]

@@EffectiveMartialArts Now that you are the head instructor, you can do better with your students.

[@warrennicholsony.fernando4513]

There are those with a traditional base whether be it judo, karate, taekwondo, muay Thai who do well in mma. I've seen fighters who do also well with just mma alone. Still, there are some who have lousy form and shows when they kick and punch and wind up getting injured.

[@zorioncosima7786]

Oh wow, 2 best martial arts channels do a collaboration? This is really interesting, the topic as well

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Glad you like it, NotAChad! And thanks for the vote of confidence, means a lot! - Patrick

[@thescholar-general5975]

I don’t think tma’s will dissapear so easily. Just look at traditions like koryu kenjutsu. The people who practice this obviously are not in it because they plan to duel with katanas or spears, but people still find value in it. Although historical european martial arts are a reinvented tradition, weapons based martial arts in asia still have plenty of following. And things like traditional chinese archery are actually exploding in popularity.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Interesting point. In my experience though, most people are looking for some practical self-defense benefits when choosing a martial art to train in, so although some niche practices like traditional weapons training will still exist, wouldn't you agree that it will become increasingly difficult to run a successful martial arts school teaching exclusively TMA in the future? - Patrick

[@thescholar-general5975]

@@EffectiveMartialArts I apologize for the lengthy reply beforehand. I agree that most individuals in martial arts are interested in self-defense, but I wouldn't underestimate the sport aspect as well. Do you think Boxing, Wresting, Muay Thai and Judo are going away anytime soon? And I could see a type of "fighting-science" being developed over time, which could replace most tma schools, but most tma schools are not really earning their keep as it is imo yet they remain open. The discussion of what that "fight science" might look like and how broad the technical repertoire might be is a complex topic which I won't even try to get into here. Additionally, I would also be hesitant to underestimate the appeal of traditional art forms (martial ones included). Many video games and movies have historical settings for a reason. Some people like to learn history, but many people like to experience it. Traditional art forms allow people to experience some history, which can impart valuable perspectives on our contemporary society. Swords are prolific in pop-culture. Historical European Martial Arts as a movement didn't exist 30 years ago, and now there are countries which have begun codifying national leagues (Italy). Here is an article which uses facebook data to estimate how many people in the US practice hema. historicaleuropeanmartialarts.com/2020/06/30/the-demographics-of-the-historical-european-martial-arts-community-in-the-usa/ They estimate that up to 160,000 people in the US are practice in some form. That is bigger than the number of Judo competitors, and by all accounts hema is even more popular in Europe than in the US. On a personal note, the midwest town I live in (150,000 pop) had just 1 hema club five years ago and now it has 6 in total. You could probably find a club near you by searching here: www.hemaalliance.com/club-finders So historical weapons-based martial systems definitely have their appeal and can be successful. I think that most TMA Schools need to evolve and catch up with the times, but I would say that they could still carve out a niche.

[@seamusnaughton8217]

Great respect to the years you spend in that japan art ..

[@warrennicholsony.fernando4513]

If there is one thing that traditional martial arts have that mma does not, it is an emphasis on proper form. It's all about adapting the style to the situation that counts.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

I respectfully disagree. In proper MMA training form should be emphasised as well, but only to the extend that it serves the function of the technique/situation. In my experience, TMA over-emphasises details of movements that actually make no difference in application. This can take time and attention away form actually building real skills.

[@warrennicholsony.fernando4513]

@@EffectiveMartialArts In reality speed and power in the application are important but that will only be effective if you do it right. A lot of fighters have often injured themselves due to bad form and it has affected them later in life.

[@dianadiana3818]

Very interesting talk!

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Thanks, Diana!

[@seamusnaughton8217]

Yes your right they wiil never disappear in japan put England usa yes put like you guys and respect both you and your views

[@lastword8783]

The martial arts we consider traditional werent always traditional. I've heard about for example bjj guys not being as open to the self defence aspects as they used to be and that sport bjj is having more influence. Eventually schools will realize they can get more members by easing up on belt standards and then youre on your way to where traditional martial arts today are.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Indeed, all martial arts started off as innovative. All companies, religions, and movements as well for that matter. The challenge is to remain flexible as we grow... As for belt requirements, lowering standards only benefits in the short term, we need to keep our style/school’s long term interests in mind. Thanks for your comment 🙏 - Patrick

[@Azaruth008]

This was an interesting discussion and one I can relate to. I come from a karate background. I’ll always remember the first few times I joined Thai boxing classes and realized it was superior in many ways. My stance meant I kept getting kicked in the back of the lead knee. It’s hard to accept you’ve sunk years of practice in a suboptimal art. Looking at the history of karate however, it’s interesting to see it wasn’t always as “narrow”. Early karate included throws and locks. Sometimes I therefore wonder if we confuse “traditional” martial arts with martial arts codified and mass distributed in the 19th and 20th c but inspired by older (and perhaps more effective) traditions. A lot of karate’s nuance got lost when it was adopted and simplified by the Japanese government to be taught in school and the military.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Thanks for the comment, Sacha. Indeed, you are right, perhaps some of these arts were more complete and effective in times past, but I think their downfall was the emphasis on tradirional thinking, which amplified errors through the telephone game, and prevented practitioners from rediscovering effectiveness. Furthermore, whereas Karate might have incouded throws or submissions, there is no chance these could have been as soohisticated as in modern BJJ and MMA. There just hadn’t been as much experimentation and access to information. In any case, it doesn’t matter now, because that knowledge is lost. I think it’s in all our best interests to forget about labels, and just study what works. - Patrick

[@AyeJordan7]

@@EffectiveMartialArts we should rediscover our arts to understand them,Bjj is a art that practice grappling daily,all day,it’s obvious that karates grappling won’t be as advanced as them😂

[@senseihidaoshi3565]

That stance isn't sub optimal just optimal for different purposes and fighting styles. Muay thai happens to use heavily one of the counters to that stance which is the low roundhouse. Hope that makes sense 😁

[@sliderx1897]

Its not a factor of "which martial art is the best" but what martial art works the best for you. Its the practitioner

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Yeah... but we can use our best judgement based on the opinion and experience of many people to determine the strengths and weaknesses of each martial art. To be too egalitarian and relegate this question to a simple matter of personal preference would be somewhat lacking in discernment. Wouldn't you agree, Slider? In any case, thanks for the comment! - Patrick

[@sliderx1897]

@@EffectiveMartialArts not necessarily. Every movement or strategy ur gonna find in "modern martial arts" is nothing new and already exists in a classical style of martial arts. Its up to the practicionef to apply their art. Its all there just find it! Ive been doing traditional karate for 35 years and i will tell you everything ppl think karate doesnt have, it has! Boxing, clinching, takedowns, Grappling it all exists in karate. Maybe ppl need to reevaluate their arts wrather then abandoning them.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

@@sliderx1897 Common opinion indeed. Been there with traditional Kung Fu. I was convinced that all the Wrestling techniques were contained in the "Dragon" form, and Grappling was hidden in the "Snake" form... That might be the case, but in my opinion, it's just faster to learn Wrestling and BJJ. In any case, it's important to look at our chosen arts dispassionately and avoid the "sunk cost fallacy" which makes us more prone to continue investing in a solution even though better ones might exist, for the simple reason that we have already invested so much. My advice is to look at all martial arts objectively, and invest in making yourself the best martial artist you can be; not the best representative of any one style. Food for thought. - Patrick

[@sliderx1897]

@@EffectiveMartialArts well traditional karate is dominating mma right now, dont see very many kung fu guys. Ppl always seem toknow everything about a system they dont do. But you are entitled to your opinion

[@lionsden4563]

@@sliderx1897, What traditional Karate? It's just Karate.

[@Raunak_Rai.007]

Please make next tutorial on jeet kune do stances I know it is not included in your curriculm but please please please make next tutorial on jkd stances

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Thanks for the request, Trans Fast. I don't plan on doing this anytime soon, for the simple reason that you can find everything you need to know about postures and stances in the following videos already: - The Fighting Stance: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqTIgZlqir2Iqrs - The 7 Grappling Postures: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJ-9qapjhrCledk - The Wrestling Stance: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooXKiXyDZcuCb8k My advice would be to let go of the desire to study Jeet Kune Do as Bruce Lee's specific fighting style, but rather embrace its philosophy which is to "absorb what is useful, discard what is not, and add what is uniquely your own", from whichever source you may find it. Hope this helps! - Patrick

[@curtismaul2552]

Remember not everybody wants to get in the cage or roll about on the floor it's just not their thing.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Perhaps. But you don't need to compete if you're practicing MMA, and you don't need to study BJJ if grappling is not your thing. There are many modern striking-based programs out there you can do recreationally. - Patrick

[@jinku77]

I think traditional martial arts should stop worshipping tradition and embrace functionality. As Rokas said they will converge in some of the things that MMA are doing but it still had some particularities of the style. If they don't do that they are doomed to extinction.

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

My point exactly. Thing is though, when arts (and teachers/practitioners) do evolve and become more functional, can we still consider them "traditional"? So by definition, aren't all TMA destined to extinction? Food for thought 😉 - Patrick

[@AyeJordan7]

@@EffectiveMartialArts a martial art is not suppose to stay traditional,your not giving your roots a purpose,that art needs to grow and have a purpose,give life,My thought is know your art,keep what’s practical through away what isn’t practical,there’s no such thing as”triditional”martial arts

[@arihaviv8510]

I see a resurgence in shaolin kung fu... there's something about being able to do forms while balancing on poles or the high flying kicks and spins of drunken monkey style or being able to break boards with your palms. It's not about being effective for fighting but it's about the physical and mental endeavor that's so attractive and MMA isn't an alternative to those kinds of feats. It's not just about exotic culture or secret jedi force tricks that don't work

[@cubiczirconiabeard5366]

1:00:10 "MMA shows what works" NO ! MMA shows what works under MMA ring conditions/rules. Not what works when fighting from a car seat, nor in a crowded area, nor at the beach, nor a slippery surface like showers at the beach, nor from a 3 story walk way, nor fighting 3 or 4 traditional kung fu clownish asian men. Their silk shirts with tigers, dragons, and storks were kinda cool.

[@redskullfire706]

I have to say half and half. its good to perserve traditions with good qualities but the toxic ones wont be preserved because people will not uphold a immoral morality they have disdain for. that is how that tradition will eventually die. there will be people who embrace the immoral so it will be a hard thing to kill with time. it's about the same as racism, and many people will have an experience to reproduce it eventually, so even if its killed, it is possible to be reborn. I do think however that traditional martial arts can be effective martial arts. it's not all aikido or kungfu, but Aikido and Kungfu. there are to many different styles and masters. the ability to be flexible on tradition is key. have equal tactics with the traditions. my karate teacher kept karate tradition in her effective training regiment but also improved upon it and taught more than just karate but what also works to incorporate it into our regiment. infact karate stays karate even tho you add to it as that was what created it in the first place. kungfu is created from animals and it will keep evolving as far as the martial art itself. the traditions will vary from one teacher to the other but I say the flexible traditional style will still be there. it will be improved upon per teacher and thus I feel like eventually it will correct itself. but I will say this.... as far as religion goes tho everyone has thier own beleifs.... what would you say if I were to say you were ridiculous for not believing in it ? that would make you very aggravated because that would be me calling you crazy based on my own personal opinion or belief based on biased which ever religion or beleif is biased in a good way. also you are not seeing the religion from inside. if you dont try something fully with an open mind you will not know the truth. have you read the bible all the way through? studied it ? tried what It asks? if not then you have no reason to say otherwise or say it should be thrown away other than you personally beleive it to be lies or it is disrespectful. God is always there, fact, jesus was real, fact. heres the thing, if you are convinced that God doesnt exist and beleive in proof entirely then how can you choose for yourself for what is real or not? if you beleive an illusionist is killing someone by evidence your seeing then you will beleive they are, wether they are is dependent on all aspects. the human eye can be tricked thus if you beleive only on evidence presented you've taken it at face value, then you have tricked yourself into beleif. how can you say your choice is wrong unless you beleive it is so? you cannot because absolute truth cannot be attained by human beings as it cannot be percieved as it is without bias trully.... thus all truth is choice by the person. if someone believes the earth is flat, then let them beleive it. there are reasons for thier choice that you probably havnt experienced as you are not them. you have had a totally different life. if God stood infront of you, what would you beleive then? would it remain a disbeleif, beleif, or undecided but curious? dilusion can be put simply as also a choice to beleive something "is" a certain way as much as its counter "absolute proof" also cannot be perceived without bias. I use critical thinking and know that God is real by using it. you do not have to prove a personal beleif, because mine are based on experience and hard work. I seeked him out, can you say the same ? the only time a person can truly lie is to personally believe it as such. if they see it as truth then it is a truth. it is only a lie if percieved as such. if it wasnt we would not have people falsely accused -.-... very agitated by the lack of respect for what others beleive on both sides of the fence unfortunalty, but this is also my opinion on yours. if a rag is perceived as yellow and someone sees it as white.... should I say it is yellow and argue and call them crazy based on some self believed base human instinct, or try to understand how it could be and ask them true questions and want to see the same thing? my opinion could be aikido is better than any other martial art. you would say "in your opinion not" but you would be dodging the part where you truly beleive it is not to seem more considerate, while believing the whole time they are crazy people. thus your not being truly open minded. what if NASA lied and it really is flat? not saying it is because I've read the passage in the bible that makes people beleive that and mathematically speaking the 4 corners of the world would mean it could also be a 3d square if you were to look at it as just one object rather than the 4 squares in a cube it would intersect vertices in the full sphere .... and they would intersect. you literally could put 4 corners on the earth by putting the square inside a globe. thus I dont beleive it but it does make sense how they could think that way. i dont say they are crazy because what if I'm wrong? what if my ability to find the truth is biased and i find the wrong thing. one thing that God has always done himself is tell me things to prove himself and I have seen things no one will ever believe. I wont try to prove it but if you are ever interested then I would say seek him out for him to prove himself to you before you just throw the whole ideal away as if it was false because you said so. the only way to find any proof for yourself is faith. all forms of science are found through first having that faith. im sure people have found things they cant prove. definilty wouldnt find it uncommon. i am a very critical thinker and I study things to a fault to be sure of myself. it's the one fact I can truly say 100% I know is right Rokas, God is very real, I have seen to much and experienced personally to much. beleiveing in a lie is to see it as a lie but continuing to support it and believing in it even tho you dont is truly believing in a lie. I have never really stopped since my first breath even tho I pressure tested it. people will beleive based on thier own ideas and experiences or influences on thier life. beleif is a personal choice..... I feel a little offended or disrespected for the way it was expressed but understanding of your reasoning of why. people make the religion very undesirable for people so experiences can deter it. its face value can make its image as corrupt . the fact there is a God out there could be seen as ridiculous but so could the thought of little balls floating around microscopically without mouths or certain organs could also be seen the same way lol (atoms, or cells). doubt is a good thing to reinforce someones belief or re-evaluate the situation ...my road with God however was farther from that image. specially since I perceived it as true at 2 to 3 years old and every time I have tried to lose faith and have tried to doubt, it was strengthened by him and no one else . he has brought me through impossible situation through impossible solutions. had it been anyone else I would not beleive it. he has taught me since birth and I've talked with him since birth. also we dont live for God to do it for heaven or to keep from hell, we do it because we love God. if they are doing for god to go heaven, they probably will never make it lol. the whole message was unclear to people. the real question is do you want a life or afterlife without him or with him? if you love somone you will choose them and try to do what you can to please them and to support them and vice versa. if your after just the sex it's an empty relationship.... if your after money it also is. if your just after being loved, it's not gonna work. if you do it because you love them and no other reason then the rewards will come second in importance.....hence heaven and hell being money and sex in that metaphor. both are a push towards it yet shouldnt be the reason ;). they are simply a byproduct of your relationship. so tell me how you are smart again? scientists actully test thier faiths... have you? very disrespectful to Christians in general, but I do understand because you do not beleive. but I would say to take your own advice and practice what you preached on dilusion and truth. I agreed with most of it. but calling us crazy for what we believed is definitly an insult. I hope I've influenced you positively.

[@redskullfire706]

sorry if this comment was not as expected or wanted by you, but niether was me being called stupid, wanted by myself lol XD. no hard feelings but I make my own choices and I'm not disillusioned. I'm willing to admit the truth, we choose what we want to beleive or disbelieve regardless of facts or evidence provided or not, even if they can influence our decision the ultimate deciding factor is oursleves. in that way everyone is disillusioned if you were to explain beleif in such a way as it reflects personal opinion and biased. its really just concreteing itself as the way I have described it here.......biased via personal choice being a factor. no beleif is without biased and thus evidence is simply a spring board for beleif to take place lazily from somone elses finding or from seeking our own. I find it more morally satisfying to have evidence form myself rather than to take from others own personal beleifs. I feel the only way to find truth is to seek it for ourselves and even then we will never know for sure but we will feel as if we do. if I am wrong then this world could also be. maybe this world isnt even real lol? if we question everything we would get no answers without personal beleif so we shouldnt down play it like trash just because they differ from one to the other and view ours as any more than theirs. how can we accuratly say we know anything about the world when theres to much of it to be sure of anything? that would be in my eyes prideful and stupid honestly. speaking also to myself of course granted I do 100% beleive I know God but honestly, It might seem stupid to you, but there is no pride there ... I cant help but to and it's because I choose to, because I have felt him, I've talked with him, I know him. to ignore him or those 3 facts, for a fear of being wrong or callously setting my standard to the worlds standards of what is and isnt; would be a waste. thus ultimately choice is the ultimate deciding factor. I was made the way I am and everything he has taught me has been what i can describe as good and positive. he is very wise, wise beyond the worlds standards as he knows and is everything around me. he creates himself and moves himself for me because he loves me. he teaches me hard lessons because those lessons make me wiser. his world was made to produce the strongest of characters and to state that this world was not created but formed would be crazy imo. man cannot help but to be a hypocrite because we are flawed not by mistake but on purpose to change and grow from hypocrisy. everyone is crazy In thier own way. because beleif is something that is IMPORTANT! doubt is not full on disbeleif but the culmination of active thought and question to fact in curiosity.... a decision has not been made. disbeleif is when someone calls people who are in fact crazy being a bad thing; without looking at the definition of crazy to begin with. of course morality should always be considered but also abounds and abasses for the situations. to compare christian values of love and joy and truth to some of the devil worshipers who bleed out people for thier God is quite a big step there in morality .... my God has always used reason and only took life with his own hands as he gave it in the first place. the sacrifices in the past to him were not wasted as they would eat of lambs they sacrificed for thier sins, then God came down as the ultimate sacrifice and died for every human being on the planet so that we may be healed spiritually and bodily and have salvation forever. he gave us assurance without worry and a peace that never fades even in the worst times. I have suffered much and remained at peace through it all in my life because of him and I was healed because he healed me. if he had not I could not read nor write, I would be bedridden right now instead of actively practicing martial arts! I should by all right be paralyzed, I shouldn't have even been possible to be born but it happend too and it was prophesied before hand to. heck I should be dead from not being able to eat and my stomach eating itself but he cured that and also reinstated my faith in him. my God "is" and I will demand respect for him also. that makes me more mad then calling me crazy tbh or a liar, becuase to totally throw him to the side is just disrespectful. you might as well had spat on my mother's cheek.

[@cubiczirconiabeard5366]

No they will never go extinct. Traditional schools appeal to husbands and wives and children. They mix of a modicum of fighting which appeals to the husbands, and dancing moves which appeal to the wives. Add in the discipline and excitement to appeal to the kids. Parents will gladly pay thousands of dollar$$$ a year to reap these benefits, and for someone to baby sit and partially raise their kids.

[@-oanMinhNhat]

MMA is a mixed art, but without TMA your mixture die

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Will it though? MMA is based mostly on a mixture of combat sports, namely BJJ, Wrestling, Boxing, and Muay Thai. Although some TMA techniques (Karate, Kung Fu, TKD) have been integrated into the MMA repertoire, these are not that common. Furthermore, even if TMA were the ancestor of MMA, how are they essential to its continued existence? Similar to Latin being the ancestor of French and Spanish, no one speaks it today, but the modern languages exist nonetheless. Wouldn't you agree, Doan? - Patrick

[@-oanMinhNhat]

You deny the TMA but you still use it. Wrestling is the oldest martial of this world for thousand years of history. BJJ comes from ne waza of Judo and Japanese jujitsu. Muay thai with you it's a sport but with Thai people it's a culture and an ancient art. Boxing from ancient greece and we still use nowadays. Karate and taekwondo kick technique are using mostly in kickboxing. And Karate still be an southern chinese kung fu and some people still use like lyoto machida(shotokan karate), tony ferguson (use wing chun technique), anderson silva use jeet kune do technique (general skill from wing chun). And with language we still use latin words for many thing we speak. Martial art the mar in it is from mars( roman god name and name of the planet). Passion from passio in latin means patience and suffer. More of it can talk here.Or you use latin words in science. So we don't give it up, we just mix it up and make new things. Like bruce lee said: we just borrow technique from each other.

[@arihaviv8510]

It's more like sparring based martial arts such as muay thai and wrestling vs form based martial arts like kung fu and karate. One type is tested in combat and the other is accepted as theory and lineage matters

[@sliderx1897]

The 2 dominate styles of martial arts in MMA are Muay Thai and BJJ...2 traditional martial arts

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

Thanks for the comment, Slider. As we discussed in this video, we wouldn't classify Muay Thai or BJJ as "traditional". We define TMA as "combat systems for which the preservation of tradition is regarded as most important". So although Muay Thai and BJJ do have some traditions, these are most often not regarded as the most important aspect of the practices; rather, the emphasis is placed on developing skills and effectiveness. Hope this helps. - Patrick

[@sliderx1897]

@@EffectiveMartialArts so muay thai isnt like 1000 years old? Ever been to a real muay thai fight? Its drenched in tradition bro, the music being played, the head and armbands, the pre fight dance... idk sounds like tradition to me. Styles that come from japan are super formal becuase thats their culture, making tea has a formation in japan. Bjj maybe less formal but still full of tradition. Tbh just the wearing of a gi and belt is a long old tradition. Traditions also depend on the beliefs and structures of those specific cultures. So id have to say i strongly disagree. I think you are confusing traditional for formal.

[@sliderx1897]

@@EffectiveMartialArts also take a martial art like traditional karate. It has deep traditions but that is not the focus tho it is emphasized. Real traditional karate is still based on self defense and fighting, with a bit more formality. Doesnt make the formality the focus. If thats the case you are in a cultural class not a martial arts class

[@arihaviv8510]

What is the typical situation today? Someone goes to a bjj school and can go all the way to black belt without knowing anything about striking in the ground position. Then that person takes muay thai, which doesn't take into account the possibility of takedown and then somehow puts things together but it's the martial artist that's adapted and not the martial arts. But that's where you are coming in...and it's about time

[@EffectiveMartialArts]

@@arihaviv8510 I know! Can’t believe no one has done this yet... Better late than never. Thanks for the comment! - Patrick