William Blake vs the World: Why he matters more than ever

William Blake (1757 - 1827) was a poet, artist, visionary and author of the unofficial English national anthem 'Jerusalem'.
An archetypal misunderstood genius, his life passed without recognition and he worked without reward, mocked, dismissed and misinterpreted. Yet from his ignoble end in a pauper's grave, Blake now occupies a unique position as an artist who unites and attracts people from all corners of society, and a rare inclusive symbol of English identity.
Many of his astonishing publications and manuscripts are housed at the British Library. This special event features glimpses of these great treasures and the words of our curator Alexandra Ault.
Blake’s words are read for us exclusively by two of our finest contemporary poets, authors and performers, Salena Godden and Kae Tempest, while Neil Gaiman shares a special appreciation.
In a rich and revealing conversation, John Higgs, the author of the new book William Blake vs the World, talks to comedian, writer and polymath Robin Ince about the bewildering eccentricities and mind of this most singular artist. They discuss why so many people are drawn to an artist they don't claim to understand, what modern neuroscience can tell us about Blake's visions and the strength of his imagination, and the important role he plays in modern British society.
Neil Gaiman is an author of books for children and adults whose titles include Norse Mythology, American Gods, The Graveyard Book, Good Omens (with Terry Pratchett), Coraline, and the Sandman graphic novels. Neil Gaiman is also a Goodwill Ambassador for UNHCR and Professor in the Arts at Bard College.
Salena Godden is one of Britain’s best loved poets and performers. She is also an activist, broadcaster, memoirist and essayist and is widely anthologised. She has published several volumes of poetry, the latest of which was Pessimism is for Lightweights, and a literary childhood memoir, Springfield Road. Her debut novel Mrs Death Misses Death was published this year to great acclaim. A BBC Radio 4 documentary following Godden’s progress on the novel over 12 months was broadcast in 2018. In November 2020 she was made a Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature.
John Higgs is a writer who specialises in finding previously unsuspected narratives, hidden in obscure corners of our history and culture, which can change the way we see the world. His books include I Have America Surrounded (2006), The KLF (2012), Stranger Than We Can Imagine (2015), Watling Street (2017), The Future Starts Here (2019), William Blake Now (2019) and William Blake Vs The World (2020). He has also written two short novels under the name JMR Higgs, The Brandy of the Damned (2012) and The First Church on the Moon (2013).
Robin Ince is co-presenter of the award-winning BBC Radio 4 show, The Infinite Monkey Cage. He has won the Time Out Outstanding Achievement in Comedy, was nominated for a British Comedy Award for Best Live show, and has won three Chortle Awards. He has toured his stand up across the world, both solo and with his radio double act partner, Professor Brian Cox. He is the author of I'm a Joke and So Are You and the forthcoming The Importance of Being Interested: Adventures in Scientific Curiosity.
Kae Tempest is an award-winning author, poet and recording artist and President of the Blake Society. Tempest won the 2013 Ted Hughes Award, was nominated for a Costa Book Award and a BRIT Award, has been shortlisted for the Mercury Prize twice and was nominated for two Ivor Novello Awards. They were also named a Next Generation Poet by the Poetry Book Society, a decennial accolade. They released their fourth studio album, The Book of Traps and Lessons produced by Rick Rubin in 2019, and a non-fiction book, On Connection in 2020.

[@23Josilee]

Neville Goddard spoke frequently of William Blake and his outstanding intellect. I need to find this book by John Higgs !

[@Tobazhniazhi]

Blake's words and art survives because they belong to Eternity and not to time

[@soleaguirre100]

Thanks to British Library for this wonderful document! greetings from Santiago Chile 🇨🇱👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@c.s.hayden3022]

I’m glad someone’s articulating this. I’ve explained him to friends but it’s really something to articulate an entry level explanation for everyone.

[@sempressfi]

Lol "he...look, the only way to describe him is that he needs to be experienced"

[@carolinearmitage1815]

I enjoyed this so much, the readings were beautiful. It seems to have taken us 200 years to catch up with William Blake!

[@careyrowland]

This program is certainly shining brightly in the forest of our 21st-century night, so brightly churning in the thickets of our wide world's burning nets.

[@Mona-gu4sc]

There is no W .Blake and There is no You separate from W Blake. ❤ just One being listening to its own monologue ❤ .

[@paulasymonds7979]

This is a magnificent interview and I am so pleased that the essence of such an incredible human being is reaching the ears of many 🌟

[@richardsonchris6299]

Hi Paula

[@manlyduckling]

Reading the book now. Already I can say it is one of the greatest books ever written about him.

[@jezzab5621]

Neil Gaiman "Great artists and We still stand on the earth " slightly modest.

[@focusandefficiency9359]

So Neil is calling himself great but not Blake. To be honest I find Neil's works empty. Nicely written emptiness.

[@LITRLG0D]

I caught this too and It almost flabbergasted me. Neil is a good writer and I have thoroughly enjoyed Neverwhere and American Gods; however, he is not great in the biblical sense of greatness. He is insane If he thinks he is up there with Dickens, Hemingway, Tolstoy, Joyce, Steinbeck, Twain, Shelley, The Brontë sisters, etc. A meteor could raze the civilized world and Blakes word would carry on. I don’t think you could say that for Gaiman.

[@soleaguirre100]

Thanks for this interview!

[@marcythemermaid]

thank you so much

[@michaelstephenwright]

great stuff really enjoyed this!

[@soleaguirre100]

WB…all is Imagination! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼is Único ! thanks for this remarkable vid.

[@traviswadezinn]

Very engaging - good to watch again

[@kennethmorrison7689]

Recently read Higgs book on Blake & found it a rewarding expierence. As a Canadian I regret that the Blake Scholar Northrup Fryre (argurably the greatest literary critc of the 20th. Century), that he was'nt even listed in the bibliography!) An aquantance with Fryre's 'Fearful Symmetry' should be obligitory. Is colonialism still a reality in the UK?

[@mariakatariina8751]

22:34 Heaven is within ourselves, as an image is within a mirror.

[@aalpez]

Fantastic. Love the concept of Paradise Lost. Best regards from Viña del Mar, Valparaíso. Chile.

[@gabrielavacca6076]

Every. SIngle. Thing. Exquisite.

[@earinsound]

the interviewer mentioned Robert Anton Wilson! WOW

[@rosalindkarpin326]

He was a realised sole incarnated of Saint Michael, a poet, artist visionary, engraver and yes, author of "Jerusalem".

[@betsydaggett1545]

"Understanding Blake" as a title is not just boring - it's wrong, false advertising and impossible - we never will understand Blake. Blake vs the World is better and more relatable and inspiring. We do not seek to understand Blake, we actually seek to justify holding him up to admire. Thank you for championing that wonderful cause.

[@HakuYuki001]

Chill out

[@ishmaelforester9825]

Blake is well understood, as poet, artist and man. There is a bit of mystery of course in all the material that was lost or burnt. It would have been wonderful to read or admire all of Blake. But essentially he is a traditional radical, in art and religion. He would absolutely despise a lot of his modernist admirers. He would have identified more with the prophets of the Bible or the court artists of ancient Assyria or Egypt or something. That is why London knew he was genius but mostly ignored him while he was alive. He ignored them in principle.

[@ishmaelforester9825]

I know Blake has been indefinitely misunderstood and misapplied, but as he said, or something like, 'that which can be made explicit to an idiot is not worth my care.' And, 'Everything it is possible to believe is an image of truth.' He was eccentric and egocentric almost to the point of his own destruction but he was brilliant anyway and very memorable.

[@afreespiritpoetandking261]

Blake is congruent with early eastern christianity. They have no real disputation with this. What is curious is how much of these ideas are as old as that. Western Christendom from the viewpoint of these interviewers disagrees with early christendom essentially. I just love it.

[@magmasunburst9331]

I was just thinking that this morning in my morning readings. The Eastern Orthodox concept of theosis. One might check out St Gregory palomas's essay on the defense of those who practice a life of stillness in the philokalia

[@evab6544]

Fantastic - Kae Tempests Jerusalem was spot on.

[@eglej6343]

Life is a never ending mistery and William Blake was on of the few people who shared it with the world. But the kingdom of god is still within you.

[@jesterinagony2068]

she has a gorgeous voice

[@Dayndawn01]

I disagree

[@Frederer59]

Perhaps the French composer Erik Satie could be put in the same category and perhaps jazz pianist Thelonius Monk too.The lives of visionaries are often full of suffering. They are often autistic to some degree as well.

[@kayumochi]

When The Tyger was written, did "eye" rhyme with "symmetry?"

[@Mythologos]

Skip the first 5 minutes.

[@havefunbesafe]

4:39 I wonder if symmetry is supposed to rhyme with “eye”?? Anybody?

[@charleswood2182]

Of course, Jung described those objective figures, numinous, as content of the collective unconscious, the aspect of what Jung felt to be a substantive soul. He described that content as spontaneous products of the psyche or soul, as a dream is a spontaneous product of the psyche. Jung described the influence of unconscious figures on the perspective or conscious positions of the subject. He described that influence as compensatory, balancing. Marriage of Heaven and Hell seems to be the hieros gamos of unification with Self such that we are felt to be, with great numen, at one with all and one and all are rooted fundamentally in Love we have no words for, and really, to approach life's demands with balance. As Blake wrote, something Truth is bounded; error not. With that comes contrition that in Love and knowing as a fact that love is the foundation for life's existence. Still we need to eat. And if instead we say Jung described a compensatory or balancing function relative to the ego, we use a more appropriate term. The influence of objective psychic characters which Blake and Jung both knew is a homeostatic influence. Note. Science has not described homeostasis as predicated upon a soul in life. And while Jung could not say one way or the other if these figures were themselves self-aware. He couldn't say that empirically. He described the ego as an autonomous psychic complex. We are self-aware. He could not say these figures were or weren't. Only that they felt that way. There is a way to catch the spirit unveiled in a simple homeostatic function performed by the human retina. That is the evidence Jung needed to show, by inference from a known influence on physicality, the subliminally, we, our sentience is, because of our identity as having the regularity of absolute sameness, is necessary to and has agency over physiological processes. That is the physicals reality of soul as elemental as charge or gravity. The key to problem is in how physics defines time, and biology must follow suit. Biology, he heroes, find signals as fundamental to life. Not as philosophy, but has a true view into how spirit and body are united in us with the goal of balance in a troubled world. I think that with those connections made to biology,, then finally, we could be free of ideology and theology and see things, at least once, as they really are. That could be a renewal of spirit not just in the vulgar, as Blake referred to who? To the political economic elite, those at the top who know of no bounds.

[@patriciaedwards2833]

I was shocked to see the pages of Blake’s journals turned by ungloved hands.

[@magmasunburst9331]

I've noticed that in other recent videos. I guess one doesn't tell this narcissistic generation anything.

[@TimGreig]

The curating department needs to talk to the archival department. And now.

[@HakuYuki001]

Three ignoramuses who know not of what they spit on.

[@melflo4651]

They no longer require wearing gloves when reading ancient books; in the past the gloved hands actually do damage to the turned pages.

[@SimonPaxton_VO]

"What is the Price of Experience?" has to be one of Blake's greatest poems. Timeless, thought-provoking and powerful - like so much of his masterly work, it reminds us of life's injustices and the need to face them. Simon Paxton has recorded it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bni5ZJqnra15aMU

[@infiniteother]

Astonished to see the British Library curator turning the pages of Blake's notebook without gloves.

[@Mooseman327]

I know, right? And mistaking the drawing of a rat for a tiger. It's as if she was just picked off the street to perform this role.

[@docastrov9013]

Best practice now is not to use gloves.

[@grendelfoxe837]

Yes I too was outraged at the naked hands and hot moist mouth air from the library woman who was not only not looking at the pages she exposed but also did not allow us to distantly drool...!..Gr..

[@pas2pb]

What can you recommend to someone who has always been aware of Blake, always had a passing knowledge of him, but wants to get more serious now, particularly about his writing?

[@kushlinfield7106]

William Blake vs The World by John Higgs (the book referenced in this video)

[@NigelJackson]

'A Blake Dictionary' by Damon Foster, 'William Blake' by Kathleen Raine, also her 'Blake and Tradition'...

[@jimnewcombe7584]

Consider me as a reader of the poems next time.

[@zandor5657]

should that curator be handling that book with her bare hands ?

[@Johnconno]

The vision of Blake that thou dost see Is mine visions greatest enemy

[@louismuller8724]

Superficial, facile by Higgs. William Blake would never have said " not so much faith, but imagination" Faith, to Blake was a function of the imagination. Let's quote Blake, "He who mocks the infant's faith Shall be mock'd in age and death. He who shall teach the child to doubt The rotting grave shall ne'er get out." which, incidently also undermines the proposition that spirituality is all subjective.

[@focusandefficiency9359]

I wish they had asked everyone if Blake was a good or a great poet and artist. Lol.

[@yinoveryang4246]

Sorry to be negative, but that woman is not cut out for reading poetry. It’s as if she doesn’t understand now important the rhythm is. The emphasis is wilfully all in the wrong places. It’s as if she’s reading a bad school essay she herself wrote, and hopes if she reads it with sufficient confidence no one will notice it’s terrible. Why, just why?

[@NigelJackson]

Appaling reading of Blake, I agree...

[@user-ep5hs7xj7o]

I imagine its the modern BBC? It could even be the intention - you never know these days. WB lived just down the road here in a little thatched house :)

[@gooders7366]

? She was excellent. I mean, listen to the words. They are like a Dylan song - enunciated normally one misses Much, so it’s necessary to sit with the texts. She was excellent.

[@yinoveryang4246]

I've no idea what you are saying "annunciated normally one misses Much" The word 'annunciation' means "to announce" meaning an important announcement. You seem to think it means "to recite" or "to speak". The way she speaks drowns all the meaning out of the words. It's as if she likely doesn't remotely understand the words she is reading. As if she is trying to sound intelligent, again with no idea what the words mean. The words "listen to the words, they are like a Dylan song", what? yes they are the words of an English poet William Blake 1757 - 1827, whom Bob Dylan would have read. So they are a "lyric" yes. When reciting a lyric, similar to Dylan singing a song, it's important to have some sense of RHYTHM. She has absolutely none.

[@siyaindagulag.]

Please...let me read it Tiger tiger. That was flat. " Who dare question the creator so" ? "His name is Darwin, Bill."

[@driftwoodtv]

Little Boy Lost with Little Boy Found starring Ian Shaw kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGSzYX1mjM-fm7M

[@garybradshaw8348]

An interesting interview , but the readings by Selena are so bland and lifeless that they don't do the poems justice. Maybe I just don't understand the style of her approach. A bit of a puzzle.

[@yinoveryang4246]

You likely do understand. She clearly doesn’t.

[@Poemsapennyeach]

I cannot watch this as it begins with a HUGE flaw. That statue of Newton with a compass misses the WHOLE POINT Blake, the mystic, was making; ie Newton was sitting on a rock oblivious to the natural colours of the flora on the rock....fixated instead on the abstract diagrams the compass is making. Blake...in the original painting...shows us how Newton ignores ...all the science and beauty nature offers:...Instead Newton is intent on categorising /labelling rather than experiencing 'God's' work.

[@ZainZebun]

I might be oversimplifying, but this is just my feeling right now.Taoism and Buddhism spoke of these concepts well before Blake, and so heavily emphasized duality and the human mind's weaknesses. Sure, all religions have these ideas at their root, but they get lost behind more extravagant figures like Jesus or Satan. It's ironic that the west is so powerful and yet in terms of philosophy and spirituality is just now catching up.

[@ramzikawa734]

As far as I understand it, much of the intellectual growth of the west was basically kick-started by merchants smuggling in translated texts from the east that the church deemed heretical and basically illegal. If I had to guess, I bet it was likely that amongst intellectuals at the time this fact was a little bit of an open secret and many of the texts they wrote were conscious attempts to incorporate those texts into the western canon in a way that would be more acceptable to the church. Of course, this didn’t work because the church hated Descartes and Leibniz and Spinoza and the like, but alas.

[@moesypittounikos]

Why pick an Asian woman to impersonate William Blake? In an old BBC program with Melvin Bragg they picked an actor who looked like William Blake to play William Blake! Picking an actor who looked like William Blake to play William Blake is an ancient technique called having a Blake impersonator to give the viewer a sense of the real William Blake. Alas, times have changed. Simple common sense is like the Tasmanian Tiger. Watching that old black and white video reel of the Tasmanian Tiger is like seeing the lost mind set before political correctness became the new normal. Indeed, watch the old BBC documentary of William Blake, and the Blake actor who looks and sounds like William Blake is like watching an extinct common normal.

[@loriscunado3607]

Salena Godden is not Asian. One of her parents is Jamaican, as I understand. She reads Blake with great clarity, intelligence and understanding. The actoor in the Melvyn Bragg programme was terrible and made Blake like an eccentric character in a Dickens adaptation. We are all welcome to read (or sing) Blake's writings.

[@LeeGee]

'...great clarity, intelligence and understanding... terrible ... like an eccentric character'. It's all subjective. They were both shite.

[@markmcdowell2733]

She isn't playing Blake. She's reading his poetry. How can you not see the difference? If I'm being generous, I would assume this is some attempt at trolling. Unfortunately, I fear you think you're being smart with your observation.

[@timothyharris4708]

@@loriscunado3607 I'm afraid that, whatever Salena Godden's other virtues (which I am sure she has), she does not read Blake with 'great clarity, intelligence and understanding' - at least not in 'The Tyger', which was quite enough for me. Plodding rhythm, every four-beat line carefully split into equal halves., no feeling for phrasing or for the terrible energy of the poem.

[@mariakatariina8751]

Heaven is not those of Cain's birthright.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Semaphore Alert !!!

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Appalling.

[@DiamorphineDeath]

I can't stand Neil Gaiman; for whatever reason, the humanities and academia in general has seen it worthwhile to have his opinion voiced on every subject it, again, sees fit to honor or attempt to hold as being worthwhile in some manner. In the same way there is a grouping in cinema that holds Tim Burton as somehow being a genius figure. Is it any surprise Gaiman and Burton have the same expressed physiognomy through their physicality and aesthetics?

[@Xarfax321]

I agree, I always feel that if someone wants to try and get kids to read William Blake or any old author like Lovecraft or Lord Dunsany, they get Neil Gaiman to say "This author is wonderful". "See that, kids? The guy who wrote the Sandman comics and that episode of Dr Who and that American Gods tv-series says William Blake is good!"

[@matweb8195]

@@Xarfax321 Sandman was good. The rest - not so much.

[@jonathanhayter1085]

I agree Blake towers above these other authors and film makers. In a way , I feel they misinterpret his vision and through that unknowingly belittle his spiritual vision , spiritual vision , by tarnishing it with their materialist imaginations . They think him a kindred soul . But in my mind no one understands or translates better his individual soul better than Blake himself Allying him with modern concerns like KLF belittles his vision.

[@carlodave9]

I never understood the hoopla about Gaiman and Burton either. It has to do with the fact that their creativity is of a very noticeable sort, but it is all packed upon the surface, designed for noticing. The music equivalent for me is Eddie Vedder. I can't stand Peal Jam, but for some reason he shows up whenever an artist or entertainer I love dies, lecturing in statement or interview form on why they were so great. I never understood that type. Sometimes I even find myself hoping Pete Townshend and Bob Dylan remain in good health, because I know the second either drops Eddie Vedder will thrust himself forward to pontificate on his greatness and appear in some nauseating musical tribute where certain artists try to outdo one another in sincerity and obscurity. As if any great artist needs that. Vedder will of course pull out an ukulele and sing Townshend's The Blue, Red, and Grey. For Dylan he'll do Ring Them Bells. How do I know this? Because he always gravitates to the most noticably maudlin and mawkish. But there really is no accounting for taste. To each his own -- and Burton, Gaiman, and Vedder are not mine. Gos bless them for having the discipline to find their audience.

[@ishmaelforester9825]

Probably related.

[@atheistsince1210]

Just finished his collected poems and letters in the Penguin paperback . I’m hooked on Penguin because they always provide the best scholarly notes and historical and social context as no one else . Folio Society commissioned Grays Night Thoughts in a two volume slipcase set will definitely purchase . I believe the term “mystic” or “mysticism “ comes to mind he’s almost a Meister Eckhart of his age truly astonishing but we can have the best of both worlds : we can wander endlessly in our imaginations but when it’s over we choose Greek philosophy and Aristotlean reason .

[@Zepster77]

Not all of us choose philosophy & reason….. 🌠❤‍🔥🌠

[@gooders7366]

both / and.

[@IngSoc274]

Blake is remarkable but that man in glasses of obnoxious.

[@erlingandersen8008]

i have to ask maybe a stupid qustin --- what does tyger means