William Rees | Confronting Overshoot: Changing the Story of Human Exceptionalism

[@treefrog3349]

The truth and deep wisdom of this podcast got all of 500-odd views. On a planet with 8 BILLION inhabitants, these numbers are sadly ominous.

[@NancyBruning]

That’s why we need to share this podcast widely. Click that share button!

[@dickdiamonds3410]

Overpopulation is a myth. It's not hard to see. A drive across the US alone should tell you that. There are vast expanses of land with nothing but wilderness all over the world. Corporate profits, war mongering, globalists, dictatorships and invasive religions are the real problems we face. Industrial farming eats up millions of acres of inhabitable land. The notion of overpopulation comes directly from the 1974 UN meeting on population control. The documents were recently declassified. Read it for yourself

[@j85grim4]

​@@NancyBruningWhenever I post content like this on my Facebook, none of my friends and family who even agree with me on these issues will watch it. They would much rather post bible quotes and cliche sentimental memes.

[@NancyBruning]

@@j85grim4 I have a few who do resonate with things I post or send directly. But yes, too few. At least I don’t feel 100% alone!

[@justcollapse5343]

Up to 7.5k now. Not nearly enough it's true, however... the #zeitgeist is shifting.

[@NancyBruning]

This was the best summation I’ve heard. We all need to share this presentation in social media and amongst our friends and family. And then, think about how we each can start building our little lifeboats that are not about individual survivalism, but about local communities that we can then knit together into the next form of civilization.

[@SLefd]

Best one I've heard too, and I am so thankful for it! There was always something in the others I've encountered that stopped me from sharing them. The one I liked the most up till now, has a very loaded title (climate related) that would just push away those individuals I'd love to give it to. This here feels like perfection!

[@brianbennett3904]

Right there with you Nancy. Getting the perspectives of folks like Bill and Daniel Schmachtenberger out to the masses is critical work.

[@NoelFerguson]

With you 100% re local communities.

[@NancyBruning]

@@SLefd I like your Chop Carry handle.

[@SLefd]

@@NancyBruning Thanks:)

[@paultudor-stack1005]

I will never tire of listening to Bill. What he says makes perfect sense to me and then I think "well, why everyone else can't see the same thing? " The only explanation I have is as he says, the current narrative has been so deeply ingrained in our civilisation that envisaging it is flawed is too great a leap for the vast majority. Which begs the question, why does it resonate so much with me? I have no idea.

[@Rnankn]

Economics 101 is widely understood as indoctrination, and it has some of the highest enrolment rates in universities. People often change after taking it, as though they have been radicalized. And it paints a totally opposite view, that there can be no resource limits, and our major priority should be to have a larger economy in the future, so these problems are relatively smaller. Economists think our true risk is too few people, because innovative ideas can solve anything, in their view. More brains, more ideas, basically. And so they are gambling with our future. It’s a lunatic cult that ignores nature and energy, but it runs the world. I also think many would rather die than sacrifice capitalism

[@NancyBruning]

All I remember from economics 101 was that we all left the course thinking like little communists.

[@everythingmatters6308]

Paul Chefurka's five stages of Awareness may answer that for you.

[@j85grim4]

When your brain is constantly being pumped full of pro-growth consumerist propaganda via the Internet and what's left of cable tv, your subconscious is going to think that's what reality is after hearing it enough.

[@mikeh2351]

I believe truth really talks. The clarity of thought/logic Bill disseminates is profound in its impact and yet so simple and obvious. Thank you for verbalizing what I've felt/thought since I was a youngling. Prob is the future won't really change. The virus will kill most before finally killing itself.

[@phil3768]

I've listened to many of Bill's presentations. This was one of his most powerful. Every time I hear him talk I ask myself why didn't we listen to him sooner? One thing I think about whenever I hear about going back to the lifestyle of indigenous people is that most of them died young in child birth and from disease, infections, wild animals and the like. My father in laws family had 10 kids back when they had that Spanish Flu and 5 of them died in one year, so I don't know if that's the answer. I believe what he says, but I really don't seen any realistic way to transition to a sustainable world from where we are now. Take any city and ask yourself 'How would food, energy, medicine, transportation, everything maintain itself, even for a few days if all energy and resources were cut off?' That stuff is brought in every day by thousands of ships, trains, trucks. A city like Tokyo or New York would collapse in a week with complete pandemonium. Just look what happened the first weeks of Covid, couldn't find a roll of toilet paper anywhere or anything else. The shelves were bare. I don't know anything about growing food and if I did, where would I grow it? In the back yard? All the wildlife would be hunted down right away. No more rabbits, squirrels, deer, heck even gophers, rats and mice. Americans will never agree to a reduction in lifestyles, at least until all the supply chains dry up. 98% of all the fossil fuels burned since Bill was born, and we're burning it faster than ever with another couple of billion of people coming in the next 30-40 y ears. Yikes! What are we going to do?

[@nancercize]

I don’t know what ere going to do. I know what I’m going to do until I can’t anymore: Work on creating and solidifying community and mutual aid in my little city neighborhood. Support those who are doing the big adaptive and mitigating things. Or at least get out of their way. Help people be better human beings.

[@j85grim4]

​@@nancercizeMy community are a bunch of assholes that think Trump is still president and the world is controlled by lizard people but Jesus will be back to save us soon....you think any of them want to hear what Bill and like minded people like me have to say?

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

Answer. You have no control. You never did. The future is clear. Humans will consume the environment until collapse. If you and I are here at that point, we will meander about sifting through the aftermath in the search for survival. Live your story…now. Don’t bother with the future. We are animals…with memory and imagination. Those two things don’t change our path forward Our integration with our habitat is what matters, and that, my friends is destructive and always has been. Enjoy.

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

We’re basically meat puppets waltzing towards our extinction.

[@nurtenbakc2562]

Turkce alt yazı yok anlayamıyorum ne dediğini

[@em945]

Love this Guy. Thank you for your efforts. I feel such sadness. I find the environment to be so beautiful. I can't believe we trash it so thoughtlessly.

[@farinshore8900]

What i'm hearing are the common sense principles that have guided my life choices since the 70s. I'm happy that others are starting to catch on.

[@johnglad5]

We are decades too late to create a soft landing. I too saw this in the 70's. All the while knowing I would not make a difference. Oh well. God bless

[@stevenmoney7581]

I'm from BC Canada and saw the writing on the wall in the mid nineties I'm just a regular first nations elder now but researched since the nineties how so many stories about environmental degradation and saw And verified with my own eyes the impacts of rampant exploitation of the natural environment .,All tied to the expansion of economic growth ,and wanton consumerism and in my mere 67 years have witnessed the decline of insects and woodland residents in the north and interior of British Columbia, so sad

[@TheOverpopulationPodcast]

Thanks for sharing this. As you've seen there in BC, the expansion of human population and consumption crowds out more and more of all other creatures. And because we only see what's been done in our lifetimes, we're often ignorant of the plenitude of wild nature that thrived in the not-so-distant past.

[@monkeyfist.348]

Overpopulation is such a hard situation to discuss or bring up as a topic of conversation. I start by referencing "the human success story." We are, as he says, at the very peak of what is possible for our species. It is all downhill from now on, marked by more severe depopulation events as we go further into the next two decades.

[@kvaka009]

Very strange narrative. Fatalistic and unjustified. On the one hand you imply that the "peak" is as good it gets. But this peak is also maximally destructive of nature. If that's the case, then moving away from this "peak" will certainly be better. And "downhill" means what exactly? Degrowth and simplification is not the end of all possible worlds. It is the end of this flawed, inhumane, destructive, narcissistic, consumerist world. Good riddance. The sooner the better.

[@justcollapse5343]

Lucid, compassionate, and thoughtful as ever - it's been a few years since we were able to present alongside and platform Bill's vital understanding of our #overshoot predicament. The end result of overshoot is #collapse and this is the reality that we must now grapple with as we come to terms with a vastly diminished ecological carrying capacity.

[@kirkha100]

Talking about Catton, William Rees on some other climate change sites is getting me blocked. Very hard for people to look at this.

[@lancechapman3070]

Bill, your experience with the plate of your labor on the land was the predominant human experience for the previous 250,000 years :)

[@billg9502]

Smart choice for a bright intelligent guest that agrees that there are too many humans on this finite planet ,

[@crowesarethebest]

Interesting conversation. Thank you for posting.

[@EmeraldView]

Great interview. Humans were probably destined for this.

[@noahbrown4388]

Yeah, it couldn’t have been any other way when you really think about it. Ironic. The universe must have a sick sense of humor 😄

[@sonnyeastham]

....yeah it's all in the Holy Chronicles....PaRDeS

[@EmeraldView]

​@@sonnyeasthamWhat's that?

[@markarchambault4783]

Yes, just like yeast!

[@oscarrobert4725]

LOVE THIS MAN

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

46:30 I LOVE how these OBVIOUS PHYSICAL CONSEQUENCES are UTTERLY missed by economists. Economists are shitheads.

[@ralphjohnson3396]

Economists are not shitheads. They have models that work reasonably well, but all models are oversimplifications and eventually fail. Like most experts, they know a lot about their specialty and not so much outside that. They tend to listen (and talk) to other people in their area of expertise, and not pay attention to people in completely different fields, like ecology. In this, they are like most other people. I was once on the finance committee of a poor private school. It was having cash-flow problems. I suggested we try to encourage parents to pay for the entire year up-front by giving them a small deduction in cost if they did so, something like 0.5%. Another member was a full professor of economics at the local university and he complained that a rational person would rather put their money in the bank at 2% (or whatever it was) and make monthly payments. I said that the only people who would do it were the richer parents, and they wanted to feel like they were supporting the school, so as long as we offered a little discount, no matter how small, some people would do it. We had four or five families pay up-front for the year, and our cash-flow problem was solved. This professor was a good guy, and a smart guy, and he knew way more about economics that I did. But I was right about this economic problem and he was not, because I just thought about what my wife would do when I told her that she could save $30 by paying in advance. In this case, a little practical psychology beat a boatload of economic theory.

[@thunderstorm6630]

no, I must agree with Bill: economists are shitheads, they do not even follow science, nor can they do any research in their field@@ralphjohnson3396

[@NapoleonGelignite]

Economists are the new priesthood - dogma, sacred books, heresy, promises of heaven, faith etc. I’ve debated a few economists - and it all boils down to faith. Without faith in growth then finance, fiscalism and investment all go away.

[@stevenpham6734]

Thanks for the story But a large part of economics has always been about psychology and it should always be. Economics is not similar to physical sciences, despite people wanting it so.

[@bundleofperceptions1397]

The idea that during a crisis it's the ideas lying around that get picked up should not give hope. In the 1970s and '80s when neoliberalism was picked up, Communism, Socialism, Anarchism, etc. were all ideas lying around, but these ideas weren't picked up. During the next crisis, it's more likely to be fascistic ideas that get picked up, because that is the trend we have been following for the past hundred years or more.

[@justcollapse5343]

Yes. This is most likely the case and fascist creep already making significant inroads through what was once, ostensibly, democratically-socialist Europe. All the same, this is why JustCollapse responds in advance by injecting notions of socio-ecological justice into the mix - not as some kind of magical pixie-dust 'solution' but merely to facilitate some small measure of partial and relative justice in a collapsing and unjust world.

[@NapoleonGelignite]

Physics trumps ideas. It doesn’t matter what political system or how much equality there is if the ecosystem is being eroded.

[@briangain9836]

It looks like it will take huge amounts of fossil energy to build and maintain Green energy sources ..

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

Do the math….it doesn’t work. Even with Elon’s calculator.

[@ImproveYourMagic]

Bill Rees is always on point.

[@fredbloke3218]

The American lifestyle is not negotiable - it will have to be taken away by the unstoppable force of nature.

[@Borabas]

41:50 Two instructive examples: How the wellbeing of two countries, Japan and Holland, depends globally on other countries; wellbeing provided by legal global exploitation (at the cost of others) justified and glorified by the Church of Economism (mainstream economics).

[@robertmikes619]

Excellent presentation ,I was a director of one of the largest environmental groups in Florida approx 35 years ago and we tried to push population control but the religious groups went nuts and started canceling their memberships , I got involved in politics and became Mayor of a coastal city and was able to put restrictive policys in place and also helped create large coastal parks before these areas became to expensive due to the explosion of condos ! I also spent 20 years developing sonar systems for the Navy to track Soviet subs .I remember when Reagan was elected and he liked to send Nuke loaded B52 s over Alaska toward Russia and turn them around at the LAST MINUTE until the Russians thought one group was for real and he almost started WW3 ! There was another time when Kennedy was President and we were trying to stop Russian Nukes from being ins talled in Cuba and one of the Russian Nuclear subs was being depth charged by our destroyers ,they opened their instructions and it told them they should assume Russia was being attacked and fire their Nukes at their designated TARGETS ! Luckily for us they required TWO OFFICERS to simultaniously turn their KEYS and one refused ! Personally I believe we should worry more about super dangerous BIO WEAPONS which could be much more easily developed then Nukes with modern technology !

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

Human exceptionalism at work😮

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

Thank you for trying!

[@TennesseeJed]

This is important, Bill Reese is mostly right, so was Donella Meadows and Thomas Malthus.

[@TennesseeJed]

@@NeilEvans-xq8ik not completely, though. He just couldn't see hydrocarbon. Barring no new energy discovery such as fossil fuel his prediction could still happen

[@PeterStrachan-d9e]

Limits to growth is moving close to projections 50 year on.

[@TennesseeJed]

@@PeterStrachan-d9e BAU, unfortunately

[@noahbrown4388]

Yup.. we’re screwed

[@coolshah1662]

This was phenomenal. It's criminal that this doesn't have more subs. Speaks volumes about humanity.

[@OurPredicament]

why did no one mention William Catton or his book #Overshoot where most of these words and ideas came from?

[@em945]

He regularly does.

[@kenpentel3396]

Thank you

[@troygoss6400]

as i see it, the collective is actively experiencing a death.

[@0MVR_0]

the doctor makes good points, yet one matter that is important to note is that most of the energy consumption is from military and industry demand rather than residential subsistence. wind and solar can contribute significantly to the latter.

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

Military and industry in support of population and growth.

[@0MVR_0]

@@TheRealSnakePlisken Military and industry are in opposition to popular subsistence. The spread of arms has militarized most every nation, leading to competition by industrial production of martial equipment. This has little to do with either ecological concerns or population.

[@mrrecluse7002]

William Rees knows that we're just another animal, and all the art and argument we may conjure will not save us from the reality called "overshoot". Eat, drink, and be merry, because that's what we're going to do anyway.

[@therealdesidaru]

Just like any other organism that has caused global change (better or worse depends on perspective). As if any of the debate matters (it does not), we should be discussing how we will SURVIVE the coming ELE. Without plants and animals to feed us, we will be growing slime in vats, using human waste for fuel and fertilizer in underground settlements. From there we can avoid the poison atmosphere and figure a way to get to the next consumable Eden (if there is one out there).

[@gregorytoews8316]

None of us act as if we believe we're just another animal, including those who say those very words. Animals are, by definition, those creatures which can't arrive at such conclusions. Our ability to think ourselves just another animal is a demonstration of our un-animalness.

[@mrrecluse7002]

@@gregorytoews8316 The misleading distinction is only due to our complex brains, due to the evolutionary process, proceeding this way, in our species. We're animals with complex brains, and despite the fact that chimps can't build skyscrapers, they are our closest relative, in the animal kingdom. They can also exhibit an astounding capacity for violence. We're just better at it!

[@gregorytoews8316]

@@mrrecluse7002 you're not helping your own case. You're ability to have this kind of interaction is thoroughly unique. It's not a difference in degree; it's a difference in kind. It may also be that higher mammals have self awareness. Our awareness of our self awareness is fundamentally unique. The very ability to assess ourselves as being delusional for thinking ourselves superior is itself a demonstration of superiority. We criticize ourselves for not living up to our better natures - not being prudent creatures in relationship to our environment. The very fact we believe we should do better reveals we have higher expectations of ourselves than of animals. An animal, by definition, is incapable of such abstract expectations.

[@mrrecluse7002]

@@gregorytoews8316 Of course, our degree of self awareness goes a leap further, as you indicate. But we're still an aspect of the process of the evolution of mammalian behavior, and consciousness. But we will see, in time, if this "superiority" is worth it, or just the opposite, in the course of time, beyond just the thrill of short term survival dominance. I think not, considering the fact that we have rapidly ushered in the sixth mass extinction, and deterioration of the biosphere. Indeed, we are very unique animals, with complex brains, who have evolved to be perfectly capable of realizing abstract perceptions, and mind boggling developments, such as A.I. But I still think our evolution is more a matter of degree, than of kind. We are not as separate from the web of life as you seem to think.

[@dalewolver8739]

Bills the best!!

[@psikeyhackr6914]

So what is the story with Planned Obsolescence and economists ignoring the depreciation of durable consumer goods since Sputnik? GDP is Grossly Distorted Propaganda NDP is Not Done Properly Only the Depreciation of Capital Goods matter according to economists.

[@chessdad182]

Should have stopped at 1 billion.

[@richardc861]

Always negative, even on the Bloomberg channel!

[@gregorytoews8316]

The degree to which we believe that is necessarily proportional to the degree to which we commit suicide in the attempt to achieve that goal.

[@fr57ujf]

It has always frustrated me that everyone ignores the two basic facts Bill emphasizes: 1. The main problem is overpopulation and 2. global warming is one aspect of ecosystem destruction.

[@sonnyeastham]

It's government SUBSIDIES that create human population OVERSHOOT....Liberal Mythology attempts to divert the cause of Subsidization of OVERSHOOT to the discovery and usage of Petroleum as thr cause. But the Subsidization of OVERSHOOT was being operated by Libera Era governments hundreds of years prior the discovery of Petroleum 😢

[@leviahimsa]

If you believe humans are overpopulated, please consider that for every 1 human baby born, there are ~572 other babies born onto farms. Ditching animal derived products reduces population increase/resource use.

[@damo780]

Value adding is a frequent objective in economies

[@KateeAngel]

The question is: what has value? Why don't they see value in natural ecosystems which sustain humanity?

[@hascleavrahmbenyoseph7186]

Thank you all so much for this podcast about confronting overshoot. It would be a terrible mistake to create a new solar and wind energy infrastructure because that will double the damages that we have already done to our environment; additionally, these new energy infrastructures will, themselves, cause damage to our environment as we use them. So now let's address the real problem. We all live by a false definition of profit. "profit = income - expenses" treats all of us and the entire environment as nothing more than expenses. As we all should know, businesses must avoid and or eliminate as many expenses as possible. This old profit model is the reason that it is too expensive to protect and enrich our environment. How ironic! All of our actual gains come to us from our environment, yet our old profit model requires us to treat the entire environment like garbage. It's no wonder then, that there is so much homelessness and the planet is on fire. Fortunately, there is a simple way to correct our behavior: "Profit = protecting and enriching the environment, and sharing the sustenance that it provides to all of us". This new profit model instructs us that it is too expensive to ignore the health of our only source of actual gains, namely our environment. The new profit model requires us to create millions of new jobs that will come under the heading "Caretakers of the Environment". Caretakers of the Environment will be divided into many specialized categories: (1) removing pollution that is already contaminating the environment. (2) collecting pollution before it contaminates the environment. (3) dealing with the waste in such ways that are good for the environment and or good for the production of products. (4) regulating human population by economically incentivizing families with 2 or fewer children and economically punishing families with too many children. Caretakers will earn higher wages than most other workers. This new profit model would reverse most ill effects we have had on our environment, and as an added bonus, it would virtually put an end to homelessness because it creates so many new jobs. p.s. What do you think about this idea, and what are its pitfalls?

[@chris4973]

Bill, brilliant as always. Makes me feel like I’m an Idiot (A parody based on Monty Python’s I’m a Lumberjack) Lead: I’m an idiot and that’s ok. I believe the lies media vomit out each day. Chorus: He’s an idiot and that’s ok He believes lies media vomit out each day. Lead: Let’s cut down trees. Let’s eat our lunch. Let’s go to the lavatory. Every day let’s go shopping and have buttered scones for tea. Chorus: We cut down trees. We eat our lunch. We go to the lavatory. Every day we’ll go shopping and have buttered scones with tea. We’re all idiots and that’s ok. We believe the lies media vomit out each day. Lead: I cut down trees, breathe wildfire smoke Bulldoze wild fields of flowers What bugs me most is watching Men dress up like me ma. Chorus: He cuts down trees, breathes wildfire smoke Bulldozes fields of flowers What bugs him most is watching Men dress up like his ma?… (As in the original, the Chorus fidgets and looks nervous, but resumes heartily on the refrain) We’re all idiots and that’s ok. We believe wha media vomiteaches up each day. Lead: I cut down trees, pollute the land, the oceans and the sky. I’m living large for right now. The rest of life can die. Chorus: He cuts down trees, pollutes the land, the ocean and the sky. He’s living large for right now. The rest of life can die…? (As in the original skit during this last bit the Chorus begins to breaks down, using questioning, agitated, raised voices but in this version turns and attacks the lead singer) I created the term “vomiteaches” for this song. As a former teacher, I find it apt. As its creator I should, perhaps, define it. Some may say it is self explanatory, but one can regurgitate information on a variety of topics and not be vomiteaching. Vomiteaching refers to someone espousing (typically vociferously) a belief about a subject in which they hold no personal expertise or even particular knowledge but are, rather, trying to influence the political discourse toward aims of dubious means, but great personal (and typically financial) interest.

[@leskuzyk2425]

Myers Briggs psych test actually shows at about a quarter of people do see and or understand complex patterns. The second character, as in N vs S. A minority, but many people do think beyond the details of the S category.

[@tk-vg6mx]

I've studied personality types for 8 years and have realized that the rich, which are contributing the most carbon emissions, are pretty much all intuitive types

[@KateeAngel]

Myers Briggs is pseudoscience

[@donniemoder1466]

Limits To Growth needs a replacement.

[@jsgsmile]

It was called: “Beyond the Limits to Growth.” Published in 1989.

[@seawolfthenandnow7655]

just because we dont believe that we are the only bad thing that ever happened to the earth, dont mean that we that think that were not anamils, and an equal part of the planet.

[@veganpundit1]

🎯💯🎯 💚🐾✊🏼💚🌏✌️💚 Question the story we’ve created of viewing other sentient beings as property and commodities. Are we “carnivores” or opportunistic omnivores? Do we need animal products to flourish or is that just another story we’ve created to justify our norms of behavior and morality?

[@TheOverpopulationPodcast]

Definitely, we absolutely do that at Population Balance! Check out our work challenging human supremacy: www.populationbalance.org/anthropocentrism Also, you'd appreciate these episodes challenging that story of human supremacy: www.populationbalance.org/podcast/category/Human+Supremacy

[@DonaldHawkins-b3r]

Interesting

[@ralphsammis9443]

Devistatingly large problem, although true, I feel the presentation should suggest ways of becoming self reliant and various methods of achieving this. Encourage barter and finding a community of like minded locally.

[@whocareswhoami7278]

*Solutions to cut down overshoot.* *If most people ate predominantly plant based food, we can drastically reduce the ecological footprint of humans. *Rich and middle class people don't have more kids. Mainly poor people have more kids due to lack of education, religious dogma and lack of affordable birth control methods. If we reduce the infant mortality and provide free female birth control methods, we can drastically reduce the population growth, as achieved in Bangladesh. China, Japan and many developed nations will reduce the population by half by 2100. *Richest 1% contribute as much pollution as the bottom 66% of the population. Therefore, rich should reduce their consumption levels drastically.

[@stevefitt9538]

Over a year ago the heterodox economist decided that our only hope is a program of rationing GHG emissions in all advanced nations. I came to the same conclusion about 4 months ago. It will not happen. Draw your own conclusion. Recently tropical wetlands have begun to emit methane much more rapidly. Methane is building up in the air. It is 80 to 100 times worse than CO2, when it is 1st emitted, but it is "burned" to CO2 in about 20 years. But, if more is emitted than is burned, the growing amount of methane in the air will quickly heat the planet. This is the case now. The new time frame to blow past the +2 deg. C upper limit set by the IPCC might be 1 decade, but is less than 3 decades. The heating may not stop even at 4 Deg. C. To avoid this, we must use massive geoengineering projects to cool the earth as a temporary thing to buy time to develop carbon capture. Will we do this? NO! The bottom line is there is no ethical solution. I'm very, very, very sorry to have to say that.

[@anthonymorris5084]

Methane is absorbed in around 10 years. 10,000 years ago, the entire northern hemisphere was covered in ice for millions of years. When the ice receded, permafrost was exposed, and methane was released. Humans without an ounce of technology survived fine.

[@stevefitt9538]

@@anthonymorris5084 You are perhaps right. But then, we started from a temp of -5 deg. C or so from preindustrial temps. Now we are starting for a temp of +1.5 deg. C. This is a total difference of 6.5 deg. C. The time it takes o burn the Methane is different in different sources. 20 was my average of sources. It doesn't matter as long as more is released each year than is burned.

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

Finally, somebody facing reality.

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@stevefitt9538 We also started from a place of poverty. 200 years ago people worked from sunup until sundown. All of humanity suffered from malnutrition, often starved to death and died from treatable disease. Average life expectancy was poor. It is prudent to engage in an environmental cost/benefit analysis. 20,000 years ago the entire northern hemisphere was covered in mile thick ice for millions of years. When this ice melted methane was released. Humans without an ounce of technology survived just fine. In fact, life flourished. Cheers.

[@j85grim4]

You guys should promote this channel more and interact with the audience more. Also, no one wants an audio only anything in 2024, use Webcam so we can see you guys. The message of this channel needs to be heard by as many people as possible.

[@urbanistgod]

Webcams are overconsumption xD.

[@zip10031]

"no one wants an audio only anything in 2024" I do.

[@j85grim4]

Okay. This show will continue to only have like 10 subscribers then

[@j85grim4]

@@zip10031 You're aware you can minimize the KZbin app and make it audio only right?

[@lancechapman3070]

I think we can decrease fossil fuels and produce ample energy from nuclear power. This does not solve the human overshoot problem. The biophysical limitations remain.

[@gregorytoews8316]

"human exceptionalism" is usually used to imply that humans aren't exceptional. Ironic, given that only exceptional beings are capable (by definition) of such an assessment.

[@JeremyHelm]

Folder of time

[@JeremyHelm]

5:22 we make up stories, then we live out of those confections? Conceptions?

[@JeremyHelm]

13:32 contrasting consumption vs population growth

[@JeremyHelm]

19:53 dissipative structures. 22:49 in terms of the different ways discrete come about in relation to each other I wonder how we are the class of parasite is in terms of types of characteristic of relationships, such that humans that have such a squeamish reaction to seeing parasites hold out of… I'm thinking it was a rabbit? I don't know, maybe my parasites within some baby and yes it was a baby mammal... Also, things like our particular social practices enter into this… Yes, it is in the direction of evolving neotenicly that we push back the entry of childhood (adults are atrophied children), yet still the arrangements or incentives of a health care system to itself needs cure (ie archetypal medicine: that is hopeless, but it's not serious [ungrateful - in terms of closedeness to whooshing]) vs the conventional, serious but not hopeless

[@JeremyHelm]

22:29 photosynthesis, plant material, animal life. 22:49 the tendency - in us - has also been to ramp of the sophistication of what converts

[@JeremyHelm]

24:08 what is about the relative accumulation time vs consumption time here? How does the oil usage overlap with telecommunications?

[@user-sq5bw2fc4n]

It is odd Mr Rees skips over the political/social structure that has fueled this grand overshoot. I ponder what is the solution to this problem? Unfortunately Mr Rees inadvertently implies that the imperialistic history of civilization before 1945 was the answer to population overshoot and re-balance. This is something that Dr Asimov pondered about in his writings, whom influenced me in my youth, as he saw the application of knowledge and technology as breaking the cycle of violence.

[@drttgb4955]

My Precious ! , Share holders polishing their marble slates.

[@anthonymorris5084]

Every single working person who owns a retirement fund is a shareholder.

[@rodrigoribeiro9057]

Most of what Dr. Rees says is correct but misses or omits three fundamental factors: 1- Power structures 2- Class structures 3- Capitalocene "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." ― Frédéric Bastiat We can democratically solve the problem or resort to authoritarianism, which I think will happen because "Men, well said, think in herds; we shall see how they go mad in herds, while they only slowly come to their senses, one by one." Charles MacKay The masses will not wake up to reality overnight, which means we will continue to be seduced, hypnotized, and manipulated by the narratives disseminated by the PRIC that works for an elite made up of megalomaniac sociopaths and psychopaths who control society. Violence and manufactured scarcity, that is, the enclosure of the commons, have been and continue to be used to coerce the masses into accepting jobs, tasks, and roles that, as free men, we would refuse to do. In complex societies, identity narratives do not emerge out of the blue; they are written by language-framing experts to manage perception for manufacturing consent. The lack of political agency and the omnipresent cultural wokism also do not arise spontaneously; they are politically and ideologically designed to divert people's attention from serious political issues. Dr. Rees should recognize Jason Moore's work. Capitalism in the Web of Life: Ecology and capital accumulation www.versobooks.com/products/74-capitalism-in-the-web-of-life Anthropocene or Capitalocene? Nature, History and the Crisis of Capitalism www.pmpress.org/index.php?l=product_detail&p=779 Class society is an anachronistic anathema, as is human ingenuity and innovation driven by profit. If these points are not considered, the transition to a steady-state economy will include neo-Malthusian measures so the elites can continue enjoying luxurious and wasteful lifestyles. A transhumanist techno-fascist system will be implemented, and the useless class will likely be eliminated, eventually transformed into Soylent Green, while a class of servile cyborgs will be normalized. It's impossible to imagine how all this will fit into a world dominated by AI and a new multipolar geopolitical order, but the prospects for ordinary citizens look bleak. There would be much more to comment on, but as the text is already long enough, it will be left for the next time.

[@laszlonemet4425]

(has a glance like William Toel)

[@silberlinie]

And many exceptions: China, India, 10:45

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

Hahahahaha! I like his critism of Musk!

[@brianwheeldon4643]

Were we all to stop flying, driving, cruising, eating meat, used regenerative farming and encouraged restoration of wetlands, forests, and biota and the top predators, while we cancelled capitalism, used degrowth strategies that kept us within planetary boundaries, and turned to deliberative democracy, and turned down our global energy use to between 5 and 7 terawatts per annum, would that allow us to survive? Is there a clear answer on that? Would the Earth support 8 billion, Thanks

[@brianwheeldon4643]

(cont) billion or some near figure? I can understand the practicality of responses that say humans are too greedy and selfish and violent, but what if we weren't? We'd have to assume any transition wouldn't put us into existential runaway phase changes. Do we have an optimised calculation of population on the above?

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

Answer - no. Long term sustainable population is nearer to 500 million vice 8 billion. A wholesale change of humanity’s interface with habitat is needed.

[@sonnyeastham]

The governments are killing people as much as they can "get away" with....look around

[@TTTzzzz]

but what about Trump?

[@farinshore8900]

Ah, but Canada has the MAiDS programme for depopulation.

[@bohdanburban5069]

Not once was nuclear mentioned, even though Canada is one of the world's largest producers of uranium as well as nuclear reactor technology. But then again, vilifying carbon dioxide is a sure-fire bet for garnering taxpayer funding.

[@christianrobertdemassy900]

overpopulation ???? birthrates are falling everywhere. i would not worry too much. we are fine really. just enjoy life.

[@mikeridgeview9557]

If there's not enough food, water and shelter for everyone on Earth, then we're overpopulated.

[@GregorDotUS]

Wind and solar provided double the amount of energy to the world in 2022, compared to the figure cited by Rees. Using EI/BP Stat Review data, combined wind and solar provided 5.43% of total consumption. Renewables constitute a real and capable counterpoint to the ideas habitually taken as fixed and real offered by analysts working in this area. Worse, citing the fact that electricity "only accounts for 20% of global energy" in response to the general question of "what wind and solar can do for us?" badly misleads the audience by citing final demand, not the inputs. We are perilously close to pseudo-science here.

[@vincentkosik403]

Without fossil fuels that energy you mention won't exist

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

You may have something here. I look forward to your future discoveries in this area. Good luck.

[@Gringohuevon]

good talk, but his understanding of entropy is a little wonky

[@KateeAngel]

no, it is not. This is what happens - energy is dissipated, entropy decreases in a dissipative system, and increases in its environment. He summarised it pretty well, very similar to actual papers I read on this topic

[@em945]

Sid Smith's channel has a great episode on entropy.

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

Bill is simplifying for general audience. Please don’t dissect.