William Rufus: In The Conqueror's Shadow?

It’s time for us to explore what we know about William II, let’s see if we can bring him out of his father’s shadow…
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
SFX from freesfx.co.uk/...
Linked videos and playlists:
Trials of Ordeal mentioned in: • "This Turbulent Priest...
Images (from Wikimedia Commons, unless otherwise stated):
Detail from the Bayeux Tapestry (1070s). Held by the Bayeux Museum.
Manuscript illumination showing William the Conqueror's children by an unknown artist (14th century). Held by the British Library, Royal MS 14 B vi.
Robert “Curthose” of Normandy by Henri Decaisne (1843). Held by the Palace of Versailles.
Robert Wounds His Father from James William Edmund Doyle’s “A Chronicle of England” (1864), page 109.
William injured at Mantes from James William Edmund Doyle’s “A Chronicle of England” (1864), page 112.
William the Conqueror brought back after his death to the church at Boscherville by Théodore Géricault (1823). Held by the British Museum.
Miniature of William II from Matthew Paris's Historia Anglorum (c.1253). Held by the British Library, MS Royal 14.C.VII.
Map of Cumbria, UK with districts shown (commons.wikime....
Relief map of England, UK (commons.wikime....
Illustration in the Grandes Chroniques de France showing the death of King William II, known as William Rufus, while hunting (c.1274). Held by the British Library, Royal MS 16 G vi.
Quoted texts:
William of Malmesbury, De gestis regum Anglorum (1125)
Frank Barlow, ODNB entry on William II.
Kathleen Thompson, ODNB entry on Robert “Curthose”.
The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle
Also consulted, were:
Other relevant entries from The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Online.
#History #Medieval #Norman

[@laurachapple6795]

Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is a conspiracy!

[@ReadingthePast]

I mean… this is hard to argue with! Also, if two of my near relatives had died doing a certain thing in a certain place, I probably wouldn’t do that thing there 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@thhseeking]

I didn't know that there was an Edmund Blackadder all the way back then :P

[@nickybenson3132]

Thanks so much Dr Kat for another very insightful video. 🌲🏹🌳

[@dorian4534]

I was going to say something to this effect

[@eshim3961]

After the second death, I think I would avoid going into the woods with my family.

[@EmoBearRights]

I think Henry was a shrewd operator who got rid of his rivals in hunting 'accidents'.🏹

[@renastone9355]

Well, the earlier accidents would have been when Henry was far too young to participate...

[@ingerfaber3411]

@@renastone9355 Maybe he was inspired

[@meganferraro8145]

Dr Kat can you please do a video about exile? How it worked... self imposed and banishment. It's such a fascinating subject but a difficult one to research.

[@BeeKool__113]

Ooo!! What a great topic!! Yes, I too would love to know more about it. I often think to the various historical figures who were exiled such as Henry Bolingbrook or Henry IV and Charles II who went on to sit upon the throne. I agree that is a very fascinating topic!!

[@MonsieurChapeau]

I agree, great topic for a video 👍

[@eliscanfield3913]

🌲🌲🌳🌳🌲🏹🦌🌳🌳🌲 That's a lot of huntiing accidents in a relatively short period of time for the same family.

[@ellencook1658]

They seem to have gone to target practice with Star Wars storm troopers.

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

Proportionate to the amount of hunting they did?????

[@carmencruz8731]

🦰🏹🐎

[@jimmmmy41]

I love the history of the early Plantagenet kings. It's a time so much more remote; it's not really touched upon much in modern media. Among the few: portrayal of Edward I in Braveheart , and, of course, Peter O'toole's Henry II from Beckett and Lion in Winter.

[@kirstena4001]

could you do a video on Matilda of Flanders? She sounds like a firecracker 😂

[@kaloarepo288]

The name "Mathilda" means "strength of battle" and some of the prominent women who have held that name have certainly demonstrated this attribute. One such was the dowager empress Mathilda the mother of Henry II and also the little known (to Anglo audiences anyway) Mathilda of Canossa countess of Tuscany who in alliance with pope Gregory VII took on the emperor Henry IV and forced him to repent in the snow outside the fortress of Canossa in northern Italy.Countess Mathilda later made a saint is reputed to have actually lead her armies in battle. In Europe "Going to Canossa" means having to eat humble pie.Countess Mathilda was actually one of the great women of medieval history.

[@Bobrogers99]

@@kaloarepo288 Yes, Mathilda was one of the "greats" in a time when few women had the opportunity to affect history. But my most favorite is Eleanor of Aquitaine.

[@charlotteillustration5778]

Fascinating - thank you! A refreshing break from the Tudors and a story I knew very little about. 😊

[@callestra2007]

🤺⚔️🛡️Always a pleasure to hear your lectures on English history. Yep, Henry did it. The youngest, who played his brothers like a game made his move at the right time & won the throne.

[@joanwerthman4116]

I think Henry was behind both the murder and the subsequent bad pr against William Rufus. Not that the abbies didn't have their own grudge; but there was always a tendency for chronicles to stick to the current monarch's view of their rivals or former rivals. ⚔️

[@ammiller3911]

Loved it as usual! You could read the ingredients list on the back of a bottle of dish soap, and it would be the classiest thing I've ever heard.

[@aarondemiri486]

Really enjoyable to learn about the early Norman kings of England. William and his sons make for a good yarn.

[@MarianWoods-y9c]

🫅🎯. I'm sure the fact that brother Henry was also in the New Forest and high-tailed it to Winchester for a coronation was a pure coincidence. Definitely an accident 😉

[@mikebarrow157]

The novel "Wolf Time" by George Shipway set me on the side of Rufus (tacitly) throughout my education.

[@cindchan]

I'll be adding that to my to-buy book list. Thank you!

[@mikebarrow157]

@@cindchan Not sure if it's still in print. I read it @ 40 years ago! The author also wrote another called Knight in Anarchy - excellent!😃🏰⚔

[@karensilvera6694]

I've always found him interesting because he's added like a footnote to most historians'videos. But that death is just so Agatha Christie IMO. Thanks for filling in some info. You are wonderful.

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you, you are very kind ☺️

[@barkingsquirrel7166]

Brother against brother, son(s) against father. It brings to mind Henry II's unruly band of sons. Plus ca change... Actually, would love to hear your take on family relations in the reign of Henry II. 👑🐥🎯🐣🎯🐥👑

[@R08Tam]

The Italians have a saying "brothers, daggers" ; plus cá change

[@soletey832]

⚔👑 I am currently trying to memorize the list of kings from William I to James, your content helps me with that.

[@ReadingthePast]

Horrible Histories has a song for you 🤩

[@gonefishing167]

Thank you Dr Kat. You must admit they were an interesting family. They left a legacy that gave historians a lot of glee for years - up to, and including, the present day. Everyone wants the heir and the spare but back then it was the law of the jungle. Matilda , their mother, was just under 5 feet it has been said. Myself , I am not quite 5 foot and have now shrunk a bit with age! And I’m taller than my elder sister . She in turn was taller than our auntie. Didn’t just happen then. Whatever, not many of them died quiet deaths did they. Thank you. 🏰 👑 🙏🙏👵🇦🇺

[@bmj1680]

I would be very interested in a video on Matilda as well. Great presentation!🌳

[@pennyatkinson5740]

Thank you Dr Kat!! Such rivalry between brothers may account for all those "accidents '!

[@StargazerNorth1]

I was so happy to see a video on William Rufus! He’s always struck me as a fascinating individual - he seems to have had a remarkable amount of common sense for someone who lived in such superstitious times, and I imagine his lack of reverence for the Church contributed heavily to his bad publicity after his death. Do you plan to do any more videos on this period? I’d love to see you do a series on The Anarchy!

[@maryloumawson6006]

I think the timing is suspicious. Henry knew that once Robert returned, he would have missed his chance. He'd be in the midst of the fighting older siblings again. So, he dispatched William, and probably had plenty of co-conspirators to help him and cover his tracks. Then took over Robert's lands in Normandy as well. And let's not forget how he treated him. Oh, yeah, he did the deed alright. 🏹

[@rl3293]

Every story you bring out on KZbin is so fascinating to me. I have a love/hat relationship with KZbin. All the nonsense, and yet without it, I'd never have found you. 😊❤

[@lucyosborne9239]

The story of the chamber pot was new to me as was another account of a noble/royal killed in an "accident". It's rather obvious in hindsight that this method of bumping off relatives was no accident. They didn't know how to be brothers and play nice. A thousand years on and it looks very suspicious.👑🏹🔀

[@johnberry3824]

It's always fascinating to see what you've got on the shelves behind you.

[@susanfisher606]

⚔️🤺🗡️ A wonderful video as always Dr. Kat! Your videos are the highly of my week. I am partial to the Norman kings of England and have always felt William Rufus has been a footnote: he was chosen king by his dad & then mysteriously died on a hunting trip with his brother. 🤨🐎🏹

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

Before the Tower of London for disappearing royals and nobles, there was the New Forest hunting accidents! I’d like a video on Robert Curthose, too.

[@heathereley9749]

Thank you, Doctor Kat. Another great video, and so pleased to have spotted it live. I'm not quite sure where I stand on the death of Rufus. Henry certainly acted suspiciously quickly afterwards. 🤔

[@annettekleynhans6127]

Thank you so much for the info of this lesser known historical king.

[@johnberry3824]

William sounds like an admirable king, if a difficult one. (Though as one of my Stanford professors of English history pointed out, all of the medieval rulers were constdantly in pain from ill health, and therefore in a foul mood at the best of times. It does explain a lot.) I hadn't known that much about him before watching this video, so thank you.

[@DruinStLouis]

Hello from St. Louis!

[@alisonridout]

Going to 'visit' Robert Curthose in Gloucester Cathedral tomorrow once again. Have seen his tomb once before 🏰

[@Nightbird1914]

I have a fascination with The New Forest and currently reading The Forest by Edward Rutherford, a fictional novel covering centuries beginning with the death of King William. I will be reading more of his novels although quite long it is not a difficult read. Chock full of interesting details about the Forest and its inhabitants.

[@miladyblue5077]

Looking forward to it, Dr. Kat. Love your vids, your presentation is awesome!

[@aagold76]

he was also sandwiched between father and brother- both with better reigns and huge moments- the conquest and common law.

[@garryclarke1234]

Fascinating that,I suspect that Henry was probably planning to become king as soon as the right circumstances arose beneficial to him.As for Bede,I think he's a hostile witness as William refus was not a great friend of the church and considered by some to be a hertic

[@annemorton5236]

Interesting video on a king who often gets overlooked - inspired me to get Rutherfurd's novel The Forest from the library. 🐎

[@bretallen2755]

Love Reading the Past. Thanks, Dr. Kat

[@spews1973]

I'd like to think having a ruddy complexion is the only thing I (might) have in common with William Rufus.

[@BlackCatMargie]

It certainly looks like Henry was behind the demise of Rufus, but it also seems like there were others who might have had motive. He had lots of enemies. Maybe a Saxon New Forest troll who didn't like Norman kings? 🤔

[@sallyadams3981]

You are always interesting. Dr Kat, I find your interpretations and knowledge of medieval paintings are art very interesting. You have the indepth knowledge, I completely lack. Thank you

[@oodlepoodles]

Hope its okay to make an observation but that colour (your top) really suits you 👚

[@Myke_OBrien]

Always look forward to your latest presentation!

[@ingerfaber3411]

💘 As others have said - quite a lot of accidents in one forest :)

[@kirstena4001]

timely subject! we just visited Gisors, whose chateau is connected to both Rufus and Henry 1.

[@cmcg9035]

Thanks for another lively history lesson! 🌳🐎

[@leetaylor3468]

I love all these medieval intrigues 😮 🏰

[@mildlycornfield]

The sons of William the Conqueror were certainly an interesting bunch

[@marcelabeltran6216]

I really learn and have fun with you I love your lectures🏰

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you so much ☺️

[@margheritatimeus3400]

Just a couple of day since I discover your Page, and probably I've already seen almost all of your videos... Absolutely great job 👏👏👏

[@hawkflower1]

😮 Watch out for the New Forest!!! Dangerous place so I'm told... Especially for The Conqueror's kin... 🌳🌳🌲🌳🦌🌳🌳🌲🌳

[@ElliotOracle]

I love your videos Dr. Kat! ❤😊🙏

[@Lucyverre]

Since I didn't have any English history, this was the first time I learned about William Rufus, thank you. 🤴🏻 👑🐴🐗🫎🐎⚰️ Just want to let you know that I've never been unsubscribed by KZbin. Ever.

[@zofiamcsparlin8239]

How on earth did he get away with not getting married? Who were his prospective brides, and did any conflict arise specifically from a marriage not happening?

[@bmj1680]

Absolutely, Henry did it!

[@amylin5062]

🏹 Unlucky Rufus! He doesn’t sound like a nice person… Great video, as always!

[@annabellazsanctuary]

Thank you for your hard working dedication as always Dr Kat ❤

[@UtahGmaw99]

Thank you Dr. Kat. I have resubscribed. Funny why they do that. Love your videos.

[@manuellubian5709]

Off-Topic Question & Comment Have you ever heard of John Gerard and his supposed torture confessional, written during the time of QE(I)? Why have we not heard of this and is it possible you could do a video on this person and his supposed manuscript? Thank You.

[@dorian4534]

The Staircase has some competition; archery competition at that! 🏹

[@iansudlow-mckay1422]

You are right he is an under represented king in history - he is an intriguing character ⚔️🐎🏹

[@nichola607]

Look forward to seeing

[@cowboyzuzu]

Love this channel. Thank you 🙏🏿

[@bbrjmr]

🥰 I Love Your Presentations

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Can't wait 🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@darkviolet]

To me Rufus is the name of a dog, so it always makes me snicker a little 🐕🐶😂

[@Nightbird1914]

My son has a ginger cat named Rufus 😊

[@mike-myke22]

Another fascinating post. 👌

[@thesilentfuzz]

Great! As always. 🏹

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Love your content!😊😊😊❤❤❤

[@saskia5871]

Love the channel!! 😃😃 xx

[@snowwhite5842]

👑🏰 I love your channel. It’s nice to become better educated in just 25 minutes.

[@hilmaallen1302]

💘🏹😤yep Henry was behind all of their passing. But then they did cut him out of anything that was his due so no surprise there.

[@theclassicso8094]

This is another wonderful presentation. 👑⚔

[@Chipoo88]

That was brilliant! Thank you. It would be amazing if you were happy to do series on the Anglo Saxon kings 😊. You make it very easy to understand and it is most enjoyable ❤

[@lilibetp]

Going back to Cain and Abel...

[@michellecornum5856]

🏹🦌👑. WOW, don't speak I'll of the dead, shall we. Paul Williams' song "The Hell of It " seems to cover this the best.

[@darthbee18]

Well, Rufus sure sounds like a hoot! 😅😂🤣🙈💀

[@elizabethbetts3834]

Henry totally did it! 🌲🌲🌲🏹🏹🏹🌲🌲🌲🟰🤴🇬🇧

[@vickileonard72]

👏👍🌳no bow & arrow to b found lol u get the point 😊

[@nomadpurple6154]

Even if you accidently killed a King, I would expect some form of legal/revenge consequences for that unless your actions were welcomed by their successor.

[@dianaanderson37]

Another interesting lecture, thanks !

[@janellinger4492]

Great video. All those power hungry men! 😂

[@LillyGrace8]

🏹 It would be good to know who was around the other 2 Richards when they had their hunting ‘accidents’? Also, what is the problem with looking your best? Unless of course he went into battle in all of his pomp and finery and then that would have been wholly inappropriate - by that I mean, wouldn’t it get in the way of the armour? It seems as if his main detractors in his life and death were the Church and isn’t that saying something because they wanted more control and he wanted to give them less. And did he not, overall, give his subjects security during this time and this peace comes at a cost - to pay his armies, provide logistic support etc and this money comes at a cost. The bishops stay fat, fed and safe while the peasants starve, die and their lives threatened at every corner. Another thing to consider is that he was raised by a ‘Conqueror’ who never gave quarter, ask the North, and his military tactics etc were learned from his father and the longer he stayed by his side the more he would have learned, unlike Robert who had a tanty and took his cricket bat and ball away with him to Italy instead of listening, watching and learning. It would be interesting to know how Robert reacted after Henry beat him to the English throne.

[@kazoolibra7322]

These folks were very violent people....fight among themselves, fight with others....they didn't seem to know any other way😢

[@sheilatruax6172]

It was a, how to phrase it, a more "primal" time. Though it didn't have to be. Edward the Confessor had a fairly quiet reign, until close to the end. Just saying.

[@kaloarepo288]

@@sheilatruax6172 They were all descended from Vikings via Rollo and the dukes of Normandy -so what do you expect?

[@MonsieurChapeau]

Gosh the Will the C 👑 had some useless sons 🙊….but what happens next? How does the record view Henry and was there a final standoff ⚔️I know I can research it myself but I much prefer to hear history told by Dr. Kat 🤩 a video about fortresses and castles would be fun too 🏰⚔️🔥

[@kathiegifford5112]

Dr. Kat, have you done a video on Anne Boleyn that explores why Henry VIII sentenced her to death rather than a divorce and nunnery. Afterall, he was the head of the English church and could give himself a divorce. I speculate that he might have been enraged at her because he wasted over seven years pursuing her and executed so many of his lifelong friends in order to secure the succession for Anne's male heir that never materialized.

[@lindsaydrewe8219]

Horrible Histories had a good sketch about this too

[@lucieramirez1378]

Thank you🎉

[@julzy3]

I also thought that is one too many accidents, but instead of Henry Beauclerc as the culprit (he is an excellent suspect), I wondered if there were angry Saxons still. The Battle of Hastings wasn't a distance memory yet. Luckily for William the Conqueror, he had so many sons. 🏹🥷🎯👑

[@spencershears6497]

William the Notman will always be William the Bastard to me.

[@adunreathcooper]

17:05 I just want to clarify something. The picture you're using of Robert shows him as Robert III. He was Robert II, Duke of Normandy, being the grandson of Robert I the Magnificent, Duke of Normandy... But, Robert I had a son, Robert, Count of Mortain, who would be considered to be Robert II (the first of Mortain, but the 2nd Robert descended from Robert I). So Robert Curthose is the 3rd Robert, but only the 2nd Robert, Duke of Normandy. Would this be correct?

[@Riftrender]

I totally understand why Robert became an asshole considering his father and siblings.

[@atar212]

Excellent

[@93er77]

It should have been straight forward to establish if Walter Tyrell was present. If Tyrell was not there, who took the fatal shot? Sounds suspicious to me.🤨

[@peggygraham6129]

Nasty family fight.

[@loismccluresmith7944]

Thanks!

[@harryb7149]

A wonderful and very informative video featuring an English monarch who is seldom accorded much attention, is not well remembered,and is certainly worthy of more attention.

[@paulawolff3456]

Henry was as guilty as sin. I've always believed Rufus was "removed" by his brother who now was king of England. I mean, really.

[@OzzieJayne]

It wasn't a case of "who wanted him gone?" but "who didn't want him gone?" Hunting accidents are handy lol 👑

[@CrazyArtistLady]

He was def deliberately unalived by Henry IMHO🏹🫢whoops sorry bro