Willie Mays Topps/Bowman & Oddball Cards - Huge Price Difference?

[@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards]

Great episode Sammy well done !! That 52 Topps was one of the nicest examples ever 🤯🤯 i would have paid that much for that if i had that money thats for sure 😂😂.

[@SammyThunder]

Knowing you Dylan, I'm sure you would've found a similarly conditioned Mays for much cheaper.

[@vintagesportflips]

What a great episode Sammy! Love this year breakdown - Going to quiz my buddy who is a new mays collector during our wednesday podcast with these breakdowns - we'll see how he does

[@SammyThunder]

Thanks Keith. It's pretty interesting to see the dynamics between 1952 and other years.

[@Vintage_Dave_T]

Interesting! Thanks for the work and analysis. Cheers.

[@SammyThunder]

Thank you!

[@ken-pr2df]

Great topic!! Thanks for your interesting analysis Sammy!! I believe the Topps 1952 Mantle makes the cards in that set more collectible and thus more valuable.

[@SammyThunder]

Thank you. That seems to be the consensus amongst many others as well.

[@Hodges1455]

Gave a video like. Great video, Sammy. Loved seeing the different cards and what the price differences are. Thanks for sharing.

[@SammyThunder]

Thanks Brian.

[@SouthernCollector14]

Great job of showing the data!

[@SammyThunder]

Thanks Tony.

[@The_Cincinnati_Kid]

Really liked your presentation here Sammy. I’ll probably never go for an early Mays be because of price, but I did pick up a couple of ‘60’s era Mays cards in low grade but the prices seemed to have gone down a bit from his spike earlier this year.

[@SammyThunder]

Depending on the year, I've found that certain 60s Mays cards price higher than others.

[@EverydayCardCollector-Jason]

Fun breakdown Sammy! I really believe the 52 Topps skews things because of the demand for the 52 set. I do thinks this helps people understand that there are some great cards beyond the Topps and bowman cards.

[@SammyThunder]

Certainly, but the demand for 52 Topps aren't super scarce. You can go to any of the big regional shows or The National and find what you're looking for if you're building the 52 set. Granted, if your window is narrow with condition in mind, it can get tricky.

[@RipFan8]

Hi Sammy. Great data showing what may be a trend in buying. I have to admit, that buying oddball products is more alluring these days than ever before. Especially if they are a lot rarer or scarce than the well known items that have been the mainstream. This is similar to what has been talked about the past year or so, buying the card not the grade. It seems like collectors are determining what should be key in our hobby. As for the reason the 52 Topps still is King, maybe because it is really the start of the modern day baseball card and it`s truly first year, if you exclude what those 51 Topps looked like. Thanks for sharing my friend, talk soon pal.

[@SammyThunder]

Thanks Stephen. When I found the 58 Hires Root Beer Test of Mays at the Philly show, I was elated. What was interesting about that quest that day was the reaction I got from the dealers when I handed over to them my list. A majority of the time, the response was the same. "Wow, great list. I'm actually looking for some of these." I think what I'm getting at here is that dealers who also collect tend to gravitate to the tougher to find cards. It's still interesting though that the 52 Topps still holds a stronger flame to any other set.

[@5714Collector]

Hi Sammy, it certainly shows the value of the 52 Topps set. Thanks for the breakdown.

[@SammyThunder]

Thanks Jim.

[@ACollectorsDream]

Great analysis Sammy

[@SammyThunder]

Thanks Orlando!

[@thedetroitcollector]

Great video Sammy. Aside from the 52 rookie year. I think pop report plays a big part. You start to see the lower pop cards go for more than the plentiful. 1952 Topps is an exception, it’s one of the most iconic cards of the 50s. I think the 52 bowman shows a more realistic comparison of what the price should be compared to the oddball stuff.

[@SammyThunder]

I think you said it perfectly that the 52 Topps set is the exception. It being one of the most iconic cards of the 50s. To have a card from that set such as the Mays, Mantle and/or Jackie is an amazing feat.

[@TJ_Is_Online]

Hi Sammy , Love the analysis. Your metrics showed the 1952 Topps “tax” to pretty much all players’ cards. I bet if there were more oddball cards in 1953 (like ‘52 & ‘54), it would be similar $-wise to 1952.

[@SammyThunder]

I'll take a look at 1953. There might be a transition to where you start seeing the 53 Topps and Oddball start to level out.

[@mackeymintle66]

I’ve been waiting 35 years for scarcity to matter.in food issues and non-sport. 👍👌

[@DonaldLombardi-ei9bf]

Hi Sammy, I collect Mays cards and this data is very interesting, thanks

[@SammyThunder]

Thank you!

[@thedrewavintagelegacy6455]

Interesting analysis. I’m sure a lot has to do with pop counts and scarcity. As far as the 52 Topps I feel it’s a case of riding tides raise all ships. The Mantle has been lifted up as the poster child of vintage for decades that there seems to be a perception of scarcity. Scarce equals I can’t find it. I can’t find it equals I must have it, I must have it equals high prices. Mays being basically equal to Mantle in card production years puts them in the same playing field for average collectors meaning both RCs are 51 Bowman and hit their stride early to mid 50s as opposed to Williams, Musial or Jackie from the 40’s or Hank, Roberto or Banks being the mid 50’s “young kids” coming up. Still great looks at the lopsidedness of prices for Mays cards though. Makes me appreciate the difficulty for a Mays collector like yourself to try and get the entire run.

[@SammyThunder]

That's the thing, the perception of scarcity. I think we both agree that the 51 Bowman and 52 Topps are not scarce. They can be found at most shows and online if you really want one. I think it goes to what you mentioned. The Mantle has been lifted up as the poster child of vintage for decades. That definitely has not changed. The Topps 52 set outperforms.

[@Rocketrickj18]

I think the production of regional cards is more limited generally. The demand for rookie cards outstrips later national issues. Same for first Topps issue cards (1952). I suspect supply and demand probably has the biggest influence on the phenomenon you describe, or at least perceived supply and demand. Great topic and information!

[@SammyThunder]

I think rare and scarce cards outperform when you step away from the 1952 Topps Set. There is something sacred about that set that brings in BIG dollars.

[@halfcenturycollectingcards]

Thanks for the analysis.....Would love to get some of the Stahl-Meyers and Home Run Derby's-- they are tough/ rare/ pricey. '52 Topps Spahn, Feller, Doby, etc don't seem to get big price increases because of being in the '52 set. I think Mays does because its his first Topps card, its in that semi-high series, and its a cool looking card.

[@SammyThunder]

I'd love to get a Home Run Derby card myself. They are incredibly pricey right now. Strange how Spahn, Feller and Doby don't get the same sort of price increase. I don't think Doby is in the 51 Topps Red Back set, so that would make it his first Topps card as well. I know you can't compare Doby and Mays, but I would think that stars and hall of famers would get that same sort of exponential rise in price with some higher than others. Perhaps that's part 2?

[@mrmjmiller]

Interesting video. It would seem to me that rarity has the most to do with this. Supply and demand. Demand is high because supply is low.

[@SammyThunder]

Certainly rarity does have a play into this. However, someone was willing to pay $12,500 for a PSA 4. There are over 450+ PSA 4's in existence. Compared to a 1952 Berk Ross Willie Mays, there are 40+ PSA 4's. It's just interesting to see that the 1952 Topps holds a certain weight in this hobby and will outperform even the rarest of cards. We have to step one or two years out from that set to see that shift from Topps/Bowman to the Rarer sets.

[@ACD1994]

Yeah, I think 1952 Topps, is like the Woodstock of baseball. Or for at the very least vintage baseball anyway. The Mantle (even though it's not his true rookie card but a desirable card) then, the Eddie Matthews which, is his rookie card, but also, I think the Jackie Robinson card #1 in the set. The Bowman '52 though, could have some good upside or value. Interesting to see the odd ball item however, in 1954 out weigh his '54 Topps. Since that's still pretty early in his career. There does to seem to be a trend though, that the price drops after the first few years. I don't really know. Maybe the Stahl Meyer is pricy due to not being graded as much either. The Beckett Magazines only listed the Topps and Bowmans so, it's possible just in, recent years some of the odd ball items have caught on a bit for some vintage super collectors or something. Just my thoughts. Hope you are having a great weekend.

[@SammyThunder]

Thanks Andrew. The Topps 52 set is the one set that stands out in the hobby because of exactly what you mentioned. Obviously Mantle and Mays are the figurehead players, but you also throw in Jackie and Ed Mathews, you elevate that set further. It's a popular set amongst collectors and even non-collectors. They know it exists because of the attention it gets. Once you step outside of that set, the value shifts in favor to some of the oddball cards.

[@cryptonite8495]

Off topic: Is the Start of the Week series on hiatus?

[@SammyThunder]

I’ve been under the weather, so I’ll hopefully have it running again next week

[@cardboardandplastic]

A combination of scarcity and demand is always the reason for value. I don't have many 1952 Topps, because the demand makes many of the cards I want out of my price range. Those Red Man cards are horrible, no one buy them. Especially the one's with the tabs. ;)

[@SammyThunder]

I love the Red Man Cards, with the tabs! 😎

[@cryptonite8495]

Without digging into it, the first thing that comes to mind is scarcity.

[@SammyThunder]

Scarcity with which set?

[@cryptonite8495]

@@SammyThunder Just a general comment that the high price of certain oddball and regional issues is probably due to the scarcity of those cards. More demand than supply.

[@SammyThunder]

@@cryptonite8495 I agree, but what about 1952 where cards like the Berk Ross don't even come close to the Topps 52? There are significantly less Berk Ross cards than the Topps 52. I think the 1952 Topps will remain a heavyweight in the hobby regardless of how many copies of the cards exist.

[@cryptonite8495]

@@SammyThunder 52T Mantle is a special case. Nothing in the 1950s can touch the demand for it, not even the true 51B Mantle rookie. In the other examples, I think demand vs. supply explains the prices. I'm willing to be proven wrong.