Can I Beat Fallout 4 Survival Difficulty With Only Heavy Weapons?! | Fallout 4 Survival Challenge!

[@kanewaddington7985]

'I have not met anyone who could out smart bullet'-- TF2 Heavy weapons guy.

[@WillowPlaysGames]

400,000 caps to fire this weapon for 12 seconds!

[@kanewaddington7985]

@@WillowPlaysGames Did you realise that in meet the heavy heavy implies he did meet medic yet.

[@1simp4RiasGremory]

​@@WillowPlaysGamesu shoul do a minigun only run. That one is either very hard or very easy but im not gonna spoil.

[@jayewrite1256]

@@WillowPlaysGamesyou do know you can literally run through kelogs memories as the path forward appears as you go

[@elijahmontgomery4146]

“I have yet to find one who can outsmart bullet” you said it wrong

[@garettjohnson6978]

Honestly, Willow has done so many challenges that he can’t use VATS for that I almost want to see him do a VATS only run, where, even where he can see the target clearly and get a lerfect shot, he has to use VATS. Also, love the challenges, Willow! I've tried the mele only one, and it is incredibly fun to find new ways to play a game that I largely thought I had done basically everything in! You are truly an inspiration.

[@Ancusohm]

How about a power armor only run? You have to beeline for a suit as soon as you leave the vault, and you have to wear it constantly (except for repairs and upgrades). You can only do damage using the suit.

[@WillowPlaysGames]

I'll add it to the list!

[@arellajardin8188]

Ah, the Automatron Tesla build. I'm ho estly curious how that'd do on Survival.

[@toakongu1]

@@WillowPlaysGames Power Armor + Pain Train + Unarmed = fun lol. If you can make it to Quincy you've got guaranteed T-51 from a couple Gunners there, plus the Tessa's Fist legendary raider PA right arm which already comes with the Hydraulic Bracers mod. Fun fact though, that Bracers mod is actually meant for the T-60 PA and cannot be reattached to the raider armor. So you could yoink it off the raider PA and slap it on the new T-60 armor the BoS give you after you secure Fort Strong. Hydraulic is either the best or 2nd best PA arm mod. Then you could play through Automatron to get the Tesla PA from Ivey when you track down the last robobrain

[@Shotgunky]

That's been 90% of my Fallout 4 runs to the point I've memorized where the dozen or so Fusion Cores spawn around the top left portion of the map. You rush Nuclear Physicist for better effiicency and you'll gain more Fusion Cores than you lose even with the Gatling Laser.

[@Shotgunky]

Oh, also get Scrounger. Because Fusion Cores are classed as an ammo type for the Gatling Laser, it's affected by that perk. They seem to spawn exclusively in military crates in batches of 4, and I've had 12+ spawn when I get real lucky.

[@the1misscinny]

Liberty Prime bobbing in the intro has made my entire life.

[@WillowPlaysGames]

I have been opening the recording of it when I'm sad, cheers me right up.

[@angryeliteultragree6329]

Lol he’s doing the lethal company dance

[@KyubiBlood]

Seeing a "Triggerman" run would be mildly interesting. It would, basically, be a no armor run. That said, I think allowing a fitting weapon should be allowed. The legendary Spray and Pray 😊 A high endurance build works best with this and the added endurance from some appropriate threads, you'll have plenty of health.

[@WillowPlaysGames]

a lot of people have recommended this and I think I'll do it at some point.

[@fayemarie5056]

actually, I'm pretty sure (at least some of the) fedoras triggermen wear work with ballistic weave

[@KyubiBlood]

@@fayemarie5056 The idea is basically a no armor run. But all the clothing Triggerman wear have charisma, endurance, or luck boosts. It's really his decision but seeing as how he likes to play on survival, I just thought it would be an added challenge.

[@fayemarie5056]

@@KyubiBlood ohh okay. Makes sense

[@LuckyBilly09]

@@WillowPlaysGamesyeah only sub machine gun and 10mm pistol with only suits would be amazing

[@arellajardin8188]

I like the Piper intro. It reminds me that Bethesda added unique animations to some encounters, she's so expressive. Surprised you didnt take Scrounger. 5mm is included in the lvl 1 ammo generation pool. It isnt much, but it can add up over time. Plus, all other ammo is free cwps. Also expected you to use the Cryolator to carry the opening of the game. Upgrading it to crystal shots requires no perks, and 200 rounds is a decent start.

[@trumancremers6337]

That is the ugliest looking sequence in the game

[@toakongu1]

Im so glad I realized you can pistol whip Piper into skipping her opening dialogue

[@ashleyneku5432]

I had to check to be sure, but I'm honestly surprised Crylator is a heavy weapon, I had assumed it was a two handed energy weapon.

[@arellajardin8188]

@@ashleyneku5432 One of the best. Heavy Gunner + Demo Expert. The only issue is getting more ammo after you use the first 200 shots.

[@Negniwret]

But he can't get the Cryolator without master lockpicking or glitching it out, can he?

[@coleopilka918]

Dude I love how a someone with the atom cats can just walk into the brotherhood and become the life giver of liberty prime Bethesda’s games are something else

[@-Cybercobra-]

I'd genuinely love to see a sequel to this challenge where you do the DLCs with those guns you got too late, plus on far harbour there's a unique flamer that's tonnes of fun

[@andrewsonscene]

We've got the shotgun run, now the heavy run, I can't wait for the BoS theme run!

[@nerdwarp112]

I’m happy you did the Atom Cats quest. They’re probably one of my favorite groups of characters in the game.

[@SoldierRat7274]

True ❤

[@yaboisassythesasquatch6022]

When I started watching this vid, I was thinking: "He should really try the manufacturing plants for ammo". Then at the 28:35 mark you do! So many Fallout runs/play-throughs I've seen don't consider using this as an ammo option [especially in Survival mode]

[@WillowPlaysGames]

It was incredibly underwhelming sadly, sourcing fertilizer was just as of not more expensive than just buying ammo. It's so much work for the same reward. I think it should give twice the amount of ammo it does per material to make it actually worth the hassle

[@LoneWolf-kw3ol]

​@WillowPlaysGames theres also the issue that fertilizer is kinda hard to source in vanilla, as it only comes from Bags of Fertilizer (4 per) or Myrna, who is the only reliable Shipment vendor, and she only sells 25s. I've seen Fertilizer shipments at Carla, Bunker Hill, Goodneighbor and Trudy, but its very inconsistent. myrna is almost guaranteed to have one. I use mods that turn Bag of fertilizer into 25 pounds but give it 16 Fertilizer and allow all general vendors to sell shipments of fertilizer up to 100. Too bad you cant manufacture the late game rare ammo types likes 7 62, 45-70 and .50 which dont spawn at vendors or spawn in small numbers.

[@spacehitler4537]

Brahmin in settlements produce 1 fertilizer per in game day. You can acquire more brahmin through various sources.

[@slyllamademon2652]

The answer is yes. Step one acquire minigun. Step 2 put shredder on minigun. Step 3 use minigun like chainsaw. Step 4 go to far hahbah for harpoon gun. Now finish the game with the harpoon gun and make everything else die.

[@amilavxilmen5632]

I never really use Heavy weapoms outside The mimigun, Awesome challenge !

[@WillowPlaysGames]

thanks!

[@Cora89-0]

Cant wait for the Premier looks AMAZING

[@aaronbaber5126]

"seeing Liberty Prime win a fight with Earth." -omfg I'm dying

[@confuzzledlee2095]

I very much appreciate the Manufacturing Montage

[@Lujuria406]

Fun fact the shredder attachment to the mini gun increases bash...but what it doesnt tell you that while your spinning the barrel the bash effect is constantly going. So run out of ammo? No problem just use the meat grinder! Itll do more damage then the actual bullets!

[@WillowPlaysGames]

I actually use it a few times in the run but not without ammo, I used it particularly in the ending of bunker hill where I use jet and get as close as possible to the railroad heavies!

[@ponyglee]

This whole video is a revenge story on Kelly. Some Last of Us 2 levels of narrative quality, truly.

[@stormhawkdude]

Me looking at the timeline; "Why is this one much longer than Melee?" Me after getting the Pipper interaction; "Ah, fair enough. Take my Like, KZbin Person."

[@patrickwells1715]

As a massive fan of the doom playlist, I would like to see a BFG only play through while listening to doom music

[@Stopmotionman-smm]

Heavy weapons guy in fallout. Truly a great run

[@WillowPlaysGames]

thanks!

[@xanderbush3469]

I would consider the flamer a heavy weapon, it looks very silly not in power armor too, tbh I don't rlly know if the flamer is in the base game as I get it from the forged guys.

[@xanderbush3469]

I probably should have finished the intro lol

[@bandit3019]

⁠@@xanderbush3469it is a heavy weapon, it’s just not very efficient. Also forged guys have always been in the game I’m not sure what you mean by base game

[@xanderbush3469]

@@bandit3019 didn't realize that, thought theywere part of creation club lol, and I kinda ditched the flamer for the naplamer

[@AndrewCJWinter]

Top tier day, got plenty of Fallout videos dropped for me to enjoy today. Love your work man!

[@mentalshatter]

23:13 Blessed Division! Feel ⚛Atom's⚛ holy grace! Montage! Wooo more Montage!! 35:39 *SHREDDER!!!* 45:43 It is ⚛Atom's⚛ will.

[@WillowPlaysGames]

MONTAGE AND SHREDDER + ATOM'S WILL!

[@mentalshatter]

​@@WillowPlaysGamesoh God just got to the end... the amazing?

[@WillowPlaysGames]

xD yup, you earned it for fixing the patreon outro by telling me it was broken. dw, It'll only be on this video.

[@mentalshatter]

@@WillowPlaysGames Thanks, just didn't expect it.

[@golden-pi3sk]

@@mentalshatter THE DEATH OF ATOMS WILL

[@gilgamecha]

7:00 looks like you were standing in the wrong fenced off area. To avoid ghoul death be in the fenced area furthest from the stairs

[@360lootgoon3]

Minuteman play through using only a laser musket?

[@OmniTron1000]

I did a run like that once, and got lucky enough to get an instigating laser musket very early on.

[@gilgamecha]

One of your best vids Willow. This was so much fun to watch.

[@Robopercy]

“The junk jet sucks” **Includes montage of 1-2 shots w/ JJ**

[@lordvaust5830]

I do love heavy weapons. They were my build for Fallout 4 and yeah, ammo was a problem for awhile. Although it does get better once you grind.

[@WillowPlaysGames]

Ammo became a non issue once I got the gaming laser, it's so amp efficienct

[@LexusLFA554]

Apple Watch from the Checkout Counter is a hilarious statement for the Pipboy.

[@stephenhill5986]

Yay, new Willow video! Also, there's a fat man at the robots disposal grounds right next to Sactuary that also drops with a mini nuke. Literally just walk up and grab it

[@WillowPlaysGames]

yay! new comment

[@stephenhill5986]

@WillowPlaysGames that's amazing. Keep up the good work. Also, I think it'd interesting if you tried to beat fallout 4 (maybe not survival) with a rolling pin or walking cane (whichever is worse)

[@ColeOutcast]

Whilst you were listening to Piper talk to Danny I was having a drink and when you said "how's your day" I legit raised a fucking glass in a way of saying "I'm good" .....I then realized how dumb I looked

[@WillowPlaysGames]

I'm glad you were having a good day, also not dumb at all! you were asked a question by a video and you responded. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people talk to their TVs or computer monitors so it's normal. stay beautiful! ^^

[@saammyxx]

I watch your videos over and over (hence why I’m on an older one) bc you are HILARIOUS I love it

[@FivePebbles-e8s]

I love Liberty Prime’s little patriotic dance in the intro, and this is by far one of my favorite challenges you’ve done. Keep up the good work :)

[@Abbyga1e]

I've been getting that unskippable piper glitch for years now 😖 have to listen to her every playthrough.

[@TheLateLordKardok]

Commenting for engagement. Considering the fact that you got so many interesting legendary heavy weapons at the end of this video, I would like to see you tackle the DLCs with this character!

[@unknowngamer37415]

I did a heavy weapons play through ( not obligate just specialised) run and got a two shot harpoon gun. It was fun having infinite ammo but the reloading every shot was awful.

[@TheLateLordKardok]

@@unknowngamer37415 As much as I want to love the harpoon gun, it's kind of garbage against anything that isn't the size of a truck. I end up using it often regardless, because the fishing thematic of Fah Habah always gets to me.

[@unknowngamer37415]

@@TheLateLordKardok with The scope it's accuracy isn't bad, but it has a real clipping issue where if you are in front of an object it will hit the object instead of going to your target.

[@IronForce05]

Great video willow! Glad i got to catch some of your streams before the video came out.

[@TexasGamer_05]

40:12 LOVE THE REFERENCE😂

[@oscaleusacid9427]

Harpoon gun is honestly a lot of fun and a good weapon as for ammo, there is plenty with the beginning town shop. Love the TF2 references, have you thought about a gimmick challenge where you have 1 campanion with a minigun (the inf ammo mod if its too difficult) while you wield the sryinge gun or something just tf2 related?

[@NineNoRouge]

I know some of the heavy weapons aren't all that great but I love some of them, like the gattling laser.

[@triliangaming5504]

Watching the streams were a lot of fun

[@lucasramey6427]

Fun fact if you drop a ranged weapon in front of an enemy it'll spawn in ammo for the gun to use this is most commonly seen with the minigun because it is a common spawn in super mutant groups who once you kill the one with the minigun another mutant will grab it and start using it spawning a couple hundred rounds of 5mm

[@rrohring1970]

Good job. Just subscribed and liked. Gonna start watching more. Have you ever done a no death run on survival? Freaking hard as heck and takes forever. But it’s fun. Keep up the good work.

[@axltheriolu8791]

One idea I had was a styth or institute run where you can only use gear institute scientists and synths run around with. Kellogg wouldn't count due to him being more of a merc as well as prevent the game becoming a 44 revolver playthrough

[@Enoonb]

I was going to complain about the doom music but putting high powered, fast paced doom music over the infuriatingly slow junk jet montage was a good decision.

[@vengi1485]

6:49 reminds me of Bilbo in the fellowship of the ring saying “I feel thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread.”

[@thesideofyou4400]

Dance liberty prime, DANCE

[@ClawingToSurvive]

The flamer would actually be a pretty good weapon early game I think it would you can get it pretty easily by attacking the raiders at saugus ironworks and they have a decent amount of ammunition for it as well

[@Anonymous-nl1lt]

Been watching your kids for a bit and I just subscribed! Keep up the awesome content

[@WillowPlaysGames]

thanks for the sub, and that's so kind of you! child care is so expensive. :P

[@jagvadrg.7013]

The montages with DOOM music really tie this run together, it makes you FEEL the power

[@dr.bright3081]

Hell yeah that ammo manufacturing montage goes hard af boooiiii

[@Shotgun_man12]

Good sir the way you enter the glowing sea on the hardest difficulty makes me jealous when I’m doing my play through on the normal difficulty. I had the fight three deathclaws around 20 stupid rad scorpions. All while I was in T60 power armor and I was still getting to beat the crap up. The only reason why I didn’t die is because I was using companion and I was calling in vertebirds

[@WillowPlaysGames]

Honestly, it's easier the more times you do it. All the enemies in the glowing sea spawn vaguely in the same spots so you can just memorize it and walk through easily every time.

[@corbinwarner2919]

Been waiting for the next video 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@CheeseConsumer]

That goodneighbor-hostile glitch happened to me too, i just went and did other quests for a few in game days and when i came back it was fine.

[@HowardsCat]

It's a bit late now obviously, but you could've bought the legendary flamer Sergeant Ash from Far Harbor. It comes with a chance to cripple the enemies legs. Coupled with the high rate of fire and it's pretty easy to shut down most enemies.

[@alexithymia6288]

Right at the end "my legendary luck continues to be trash." Me: farming a save to roll a two shot sniper rifle for the past 2 hours with no luck so far

[@evankolterjahn433]

0:00 ooo that lil dancey dance 😳

[@WillowPlaysGames]

Dance dance dance

[@michaelwhalen9084]

tried to skip past the piper part and realized it was over a full minute 😭😭

[@WillowPlaysGames]

It's a lot of dialogue!

[@unknowngamer37415]

I kind of want to see a run where you have to kill every legendary you see and then use that weapon/armor. I think cycling through explosive shotgun and ghoul slaying gamma guns would be really interesting.

[@christiantrickey2243]

The set of Atom Cats armor behind the laser gate is easy to obtain as long as you make sure you’re hidden, then if you put the set onto a new frame that you didn’t steal it’s no longer a stolen set of armor

[@sethmc469]

I’d really love to see you explore more options within a run, especially since you’re not doing deathless

[@Kolossus_]

New to the channel. Gotta say, this guy, he funny

[@WillowPlaysGames]

New to this viewer. gotta say, this fella, he beautiful

[@clarencevale5660]

my day is good lmao been subbed for a while

[@Gabronthe]

I would love to see this modded with a lot of harder stuff but also the really good heavy weapon mods

[@Nodder00]

I always play with the admirals friend harpoon gun with heavy weapons boost and sneak perks and manage to deal thousands of damage in one shot lol, don’t see anybody talking about it.

[@Lastmeerkat]

Always a good time when a new vid pops up!

[@WillowPlaysGames]

hope you enjoy! :D

[@AdamHedden-d2r]

The reason you can pick “the body’s not even cold” dialogue option is because after you convince Maxon to let Danse live he says to Danse “from this point on, you are dead” so they’re just playing along

[@Yoyo1029x]

16:44 a good man once told me when he came across this place his adhd got the better of him and witnessed the same beauty of power armor drag race and beat the game while using the cats signature painting on his armor

[@pmate22]

Just imagine You are one of the raiders protecting Corvega, then a random guy you've never seen shows up in a T-45 painted with flames wielding a combination of pipes and metal, who sends some pre-war money through your head and body with the speed of sound 😂

[@danieljestice4500]

Liberty Prime doing the Lethal Company dance

[@donnykitsune6289]

You forgot the cryolator in v111. Its classified as a heavy weapon so it could have been used here. You get some ammo from grabbing the weapon itself, and after obtaining it, the ammo is available from vendors, although the price is steep. More expensive than plasma cells steep. Im not sure if grabbing it makes it so that you can find the ammo in the wild, but its still an effective weapon, if an inefficient one.

[@WillowPlaysGames]

it was unrealistic to get it as I didn't have the perception nor the levels to get master lockpicking. using dog meat is an exploit imo.

[@AustinFox-gc9ns]

I know he is not mitten squad but he does remind me of him keep it up bro loving these vids

[@olivermustonen-pr6cr]

Love the manufacturing montage :)

[@panilsson8427]

Applewatch- HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[@WillowPlaysGames]

Lol

[@PatPatPatPatrick]

I had a nice day and also liked the run ;) Damn Piper

[@WillowPlaysGames]

glad you had a nice day and lol

[@denizkaancengiz3971]

Always fun to watch willow❤

[@Dante19641994]

I wasn't expecting that suburban - cradles at the end but I loved hearing it again.

[@DaRegoChannel]

BRO MADE APPLE REALY DIRTY!

[@FunnyMan-fs7kd]

Finally yes I LOVE this content

[@WillowPlaysGames]

hope it lives up to the hype!

[@FunnyMan-fs7kd]

@@WillowPlaysGamesit did thank you ❤

[@saharajbeach]

I would like to say I simultaneously love and hate you for restarting my Fallout 4 obsession because of this video

[@derpthederpness2525]

I've had that glitch with the junkjet before, and it happens with the Tesla rifle too when i use a charge barrel... i usually just do a gun bash to fix it, i never knew VATS could fix it lol

[@Realm_Walker-1259]

“I don’t need luck, I have ammo” - Grunt

[@WillowPlaysGames]

Are you a fortune teller? quoting mass effect is wild considering my plans.

[@Realm_Walker-1259]

@@WillowPlaysGames I am intrigued

[@Realm_Walker-1259]

A fun mass effect challenge is grenade only for mass effect 2, I tried it and while shooting was too much fun, I got about halfway through the game with just incendiary grenades

[@damonwile8045]

Theoretically power armor could be considered as a heavy weapon, so the pain train perk could be allowed

[@jonathanclarkson7379]

One of my favorite builds is a Power Armor build. Max strength. Unarmed/fall/pain train damage only. Would love to see you try that.

[@TheDevonshireMint]

Liberty prime having a lil bob is making me far to happy. Hes just a innocemt lil nuclear boi.

[@sparkslegends7482]

Can you beat Fallout 4 only as a medic, on survival mode? In the playthrough you cannot kill anything, only the companion of your choice can. I think I’m going to try this run when Fallout 4 gets fixed. It keeps crashing when trying to uninstall mods. The game itself is not crashing, but the mod page is.

[@Not_Zippo]

I love how jolly willow is! ❤

[@c3po330]

Bro your outro song is to good its been stuck in my head for days😭

[@WillowPlaysGames]

cradles by sub urban

[@bossshoang]

Willow! The shredders minigun is the most dangerous weapon when its out of ammo

[@AxolotlFood]

Yooooo, I was there!

[@WillowPlaysGames]

Yo

[@Dooom65]

This is how I normaly play survival.. few tipps for early game. Heavy flamers are usable, try saugs ironwork for ammo. The creation club has a flamethrower thats super op due to its ammo efficency. If you manage to get to the last arena fight in nuka world theres aternus, but you touched on that. Minigun is trash sadly, but you cam slap the mele Mod on and do surprising damage with it. Other than that, try never beeing out of PA. Nice video, your contet rocks!

[@kiracaroso]

Love the TF2 Heavy references.

[@s.a4034]

51:30 is it really so funny that laugh for 30sec ?! 😮

[@RotorLoder24]

Fun fact about the Gatling laser is that if you go long enough with out using it it will fully recharge and have 500 shots again so a pretty good glitch I must say

[@loganskelley9356]

With the amount of times Willow has walked though Kellogg’s memories he deserves a million subs 🫡 32:32

[@Borkomora]

For runs like this one that aren't too painful, like where you even end up OP at the end, i think it would be really cool if you considered adding "and Far Harbor/Nuka World" to the video! Watching you tear thru the raider gangs with a gatling laser would be so cool. Either way, cheers!

[@zsomborv5976]

Here's a challenge for you: survival mode; no follower/companion except if quest requires it but no cheesing by drawing out the quest just to have a helper; no power armor, no ballistic weave unless it is already on a looted (not purchased or anything else) item already; no mods except visuals; no console shenanigans except for glitch fixing; no VATS for any reason (if you glitch then console it or reload the game); may level Sneak but max to 5 and no Sneak perks at all; no gun bashing; for melee must use a blunt melee weapon but may not initiate fights with melee may only use it if hit with melee; no fire-based melee weapons; no explosives or explosive weapon effect on non-explosive-based weapon; no fire weapon effect on non-fire-based weapon; for range may use rotary, harpoon, flamer, freezer, ship cannon guns; no sighting except through lensed scope or else only hip shots; may not buy consumables (ammo, healing item ,food, drink, etc.) except for combating radiation; no low HP booster perks (eg. nerd rage); no cheesing bugs & glitches & bad design (eg. pathfinding).

[@GuiltyTroll]

"did you like and subscribe yet" after 20 seconds of silence really made me realise that, no, I have infact not liked or subscribed to any of your videos and watched a number over the last few days. Done :)

[@WillowPlaysGames]

I'm surprised how effective that bit was, it was just funny to me lmao

[@GuiltyTroll]

@@WillowPlaysGames honestly, I'd love to see the metrics on how many people DID sub and like at that particular point. Also, obligatory loving your content. You're a new view for me and kinda making me wanna play FO4 again.

[@WillowPlaysGames]

the video has a higher rate of subs per view than most, has even gotten more subs than videos with way more views

[@GuiltyTroll]

@@WillowPlaysGames I mean, I hate the trope of "make sure to like and subscribe guys", but I guess we are easily influenced after all!

[@WillowPlaysGames]

it's weird, but the melee only video, I asked people to like and subscribe too much. I was still new to this video format. people were so angry about it but to date it has gotten me more subs than any other video so it def works

[@Talestale]

Fun fallout 4 "glitch" is that if you find a gatling laser with the unlimited clip legendary effect it will actually have unlimited ammo too

[@StevetheWizard2591]

Just so you know for future runs, if you do Tradecraft (the quest where you go with Deacon to the underground DIA facility), you can tell the Desdemona about the upcoming Battle of Bunker Hill and skip having to fight anyone in the quest. The Railroad and Brotherhood will both be friendly to you, and Tradecraft is a "Let Mandatory Companion handle the fights" situation like the ArcJet quest, so it's just a matter of whether you're willing to trade the time the quest would take for a completely free Battle of Bunker Hill later.

[@schhvvhashimi]

This vidéo is going to be good one i feel it like all the other ones