Willson Contreras is no longer the Cardinals catcher?!

[@1rayljr]

OMG! Can we go back in time to when the Cardinals first signed Contreras please. There was tons of conversation speculating that Contreras would eventually move to 1st base or DH as his contract and tenure matured. This is all part of the original plan. The national sports media behaves more and more like the national political media every day....... always trying to create and focus on controversy....... even if they have to make it up. Sounds like Contreras is 100% on board with the move to 1B.

[@Nickster823]

I'm having flashbacks of the Moneyball movie. Specifically the scene where they tell Chris Pratt that they want him to play 1st base, even though he had only ever been a catcher.

[@YouMama1777]

"It's not that hard scott"

[@dempseycallahan]

I think that's good news. I was hopeful they would keep him. First base should be good for him

[@aduncaroo]

I agree, Willson has done everything they’ve asked him to do, even when it made no sense whatsoever. Dude deserves more respect

[@turdferguson9373]

Bernie did a breakdown on his offensive splits when catching vs DH….he’s a great bat behind the plate….hes just a dude at DH. Doesn’t make any sense…..not when you have a gluten of young players that can take ABs at first. I hope this is a play for leverage in trade talks, that this isn’t their legitimate plan.

[@bschaeffer12]

I don't think I buy into the sample of it at this point, feels flukish to me. But we're going to learn more data on it in 2025. But I bet he's playing a lot of first base. Not gonna only DH.

[@redfan15]

@@bschaeffer12 you have capable, cheap, first baseman that can hit in Burley and Baker. Sell this high priced guy if he's not good enough to be your catcher.

[@tylerpetersen3460]

Very interesting😮

[@BillDownton]

So Herrera and Pages as catchers so what do you do with Baker Hope Herrera work on his throwing out runners of 7% in 2024 if he can get to 20% would be great

[@bschaeffer12]

Baker is a bench piece if he's here.

[@roberthaizlip4057]

I wouldn't care if it was 0% his bat is worth it

[@billbayes3261]

I hope this is incorrect because I thought the whole purpose of this "rebuild" with the Cardinals is to reduce large contracts. What will be done with Burleson and Baker? Will they be traded to give them a chance to actually play everyday with another team or are they just gonna be sitting on the bench and basically dying on the Vine? I have said this before concerning Baker, how many home runs does he need to hit at triple-a to have earned a chance to play every day at the major league level, 4,000 home runs? Both will fill duties at first base and DH at a much lower rate financially. This response totally smells of Mo. The sooner Mo goes the better. Contreras should have never been signed. Another Mo mistake. The Cubs letting Contreras go was a BIG RED FLAG! But alas Mo.

[@bschaeffer12]

Bill, I think you're not seeing the nuance here. They are looking to reduce payroll but they never said they have to trade every contract. If they're going to keep any of the big deals, the one to keep is Willson. Owed less per year. And can now fill a role they need. And Herrera and Pagés now both fit without having to make a mistake and trade Herrera. I get your point on Baker. But he's not a prospect. Never was. Someone like Herrera is getting precedent with this move over Baker. And that's correct.

[@kevinr9943]

I completely agree on all of this. Hopefully as @turdferguson said on here, it's just a play for leverage in trade talks. I'm sure they'll welcome any help they can get with raising his fallen trade value.

[@billbayes3261]

​@@bschaeffer12 Then why haven't they traded Baker so he can hit 30 to 40 home runs a year for someone else. The fact that you don't even consider Baker a prospect tells me that you don't know much about baseball. Contreras was hired to be the main catcher. As I have said, I have nothing against Contreras. I have everything against Mo who has proved for at least the last 5 years that he has never been a baseball person. Once the people under him that were doing the majority of the work left, it became very apparent that Mo was way above his pay grade. Herrera was hitting a triple-a and improving gradually as a catcher. Mo never should have signed Contreras. It sounds like you and Mo are a very good fit.

[@Bkbruton01]

Some great points. In particular, does Contreras want to put in the same kind of effort to learn 1b as he did to improve his catching defense last off season? People assume playing 1B at Goldy’s level is easy but it isn’t. Ask the Yankees how they feel about D at 1st. My point here is that, yet again the Cardinals opt for Offense over Defense. With Contreras at 1st there will be a dropoff defensively. He’s replacing 4 Gold Gloves, 5 Silver Sluggers, 2 Aarons, which are the most for any 1st baseman. Goldy was 2nd for fewest errors there this year. I understand the offensive numbers are enticing. I’m just a Cards fan who wants the team to prioritize defense like always. They can do both I think. I’m for trading him. It won’t be the end of the world if they don’t. I just only see where he adds value is at DH.

[@bschaeffer12]

You raise a good point. The Cardinals will see a decline in 1B defense compared to Goldy no matter who is over there. But I think that was true regardless of whether it's Burly, Baker, Willson, or anyone else in the organization at the spot. Goldy was elite. The value Willson adds by being at 1B is allowing Herrera to also get into the lineup more this year compared to last year. Herrera is the key to this move making sense and people are overlooking it. He's an .800 OPS who will now have a more regular role. And if he improves his defense this winter even further, he's a valuable, cost-controlled catcher.

[@mikekeeler6362]

Getting to be a bit overcrowded at first base

[@bschaeffer12]

How? I think you're counting Luken Baker as a more substantial aspect of the conversation than they are. I see the workload fitting nicely between Willson and Burleson with a splash of Baker if they keep him.

[@kevinr9943]

​@@bschaeffer12 In my opinion, moving Contreras to 1B/DH while carrying 2 additional catchers definitely makes 1B crowded.... So much so that it leaves no room for Baker on the roster without compromising the depth in other areas of the roster. This move seems like they destroyed what trade value he had left when they benched him, blamed him & embarrassed him on a national level because a bunch of crybaby divas that didn't want to take accountability for pitching like trash, so we will keep him. Gee, wonder where they learned that behavior from.

[@bschaeffer12]

@kevinray9943 how does it make it crowded? Goldschmidt isn't on the team, man. The 1B will be Contreras. Burly in OF and 1B on days Willson doesn't play it. Cardinals fans have to stop acting like Baker is a top prospect being blocked. He's a nice bench bat who will be 28 years old before opening day. He may not even be on the team, we'll see. I like him too but simmer down on Baker. They don't care about Contreras value in a trade as they're not trading him.

[@kevinr9943]

It makes it crowded because it forces someone somewhere out as well as forces you to list Burleson as an OF. Burleson needs to be listed as 1 of the 2 1B. Not an OF spot which will also include Walker. That's not good! Regardless if its Baker, an OF or a backup IF, it takes up a spot. As far as Baker goes, I believe most fans just think it's time we see if he sinks or swims. I don't think it's cause we think hes gonna become a HOFer. We want him to play because everything you just said. He's old, he not a top prospect & the fact he's been in our system nearly a decade & he's hit 900 HRs in the minors. We already know what Wilson is, what he offers & his ceiling. We would of just liked to see more ABs from Baker before he went somewhere else.

[@bschaeffer12]

@kevinray9943 Willson is literally the best performing hitter on the team over the last two years. "What he is" is someone that has to be in the lineup. Herrera just had an .800 OPS over a decent sized sample. Baker can mix in, too, but Herrera ABs need to be prioritized. He's a young cost controlled catcher hitting like that??? That's a weapon if he improves defense. You're worried about a problem that doesn't actually exist regarding Burleson. If he plays 50 games at 1B, 30 in the OF and 30 as DH I just found him almost a seasons worth of ABs without hardly even trying. Plenty of ABs to go around. I get that you want to find out about Baker. But he doesn't need to play everyday, he profiles nicely off the bench, taking a tough pinch hit AB once a game, meanwhile he can start 25 games at 1B, maybe another 25 at DH pending him going on a hot streak and getting more run. And that's assuming nobody else gets injured, in which case he gets even more opportunities.

[@teambigv]

I'm glad he wants to stay. The move to first just makes good sense. I wasn't real crazy about the platoon idea anyhow.

[@bschaeffer12]

Well to be clear it'll still be a platoon at 1B. Willson won't start every game there, likely not even close to it

[@teambigv]

@bschaeffer12 yes your probably right.

[@bakajon]

I'm waiting for Crooks..

[@chrisweidner4768]

Hoping he shines the spring and forces their hand.

[@chrisweidner4768]

They should bag on the Cardinals and call out how inept they have been or the last few years. Until Moz is gone and the poison that surrounds him, we will remain the brunt of jokes. Hopefully the kids can get the correct voices in their ears and bring us out of this wasteland. Not Wilson’s fault. I admire his tenacity and hope he leads us to victory. Saw podcasts from Toronto/Seattle hoping they could get Arenado. Thinking the Yankees should be in the mix as well. Hopefully we can jettison him and his overpay.

[@ACErob-me9ss]

I'm down he does hit well

[@mitchell9171]

We should have kept Yepez to be our 1B and Wilson at DH

[@bschaeffer12]

We'll see how Yepez does in the years ahead. Cardinals didn't like him, for whatever reasons.

[@JamesPhillips-cp4vn]

Welcome to 90-95 cards baseball

[@YouMama1777]

Even if he is just the DH. I'm ok with that... 1B Burelson/Baker. DH Contreras. C Herrera/Pages (if Herrera can throw) ... Burelson at DH when Contreras plays 1st ... Baker at 1st w Contreras at DH ... and it always leaves you with a viable bench bat or 2 ... they obviously dont trust Contreras to handle the staff. And they want to squeeze as much out of the staff as possible since they wont have a true number 1.

[@bschaeffer12]

Contreras also being able to play some 1B is important bc it allows others to take a turn at DH too. It gets the best defensive catcher, Pagés behind the plate, with Herrera DH and Willson at 1B. That alignment becomes possible some days if Willson can handle 1B.

[@boschlosser10]

So we are “changing” his position again.. okay.. but again imo we are log jammed everywhere.. Contreras Arenado and I assume Gray all no trade clause.. guess we will see.. I don’t have high hopes!

[@bschaeffer12]

The Cardinals are not logged jammed at 1B.

[@BillDownton]

Well that changes wìn total

[@bschaeffer12]

For the better or worse?

[@BillDownton]

@@bschaeffer12 better the next thing is if Gray stays

[@JamesPhillips-cp4vn]

Who cares is you win 83 or 73 games?

[@bschaeffer12]

@@BillDownton sounds like he's in.

[@craigmorris3055]

I'm a fan of this move at least they aren't moving him and totally quitting on next year's team.

[@stephenconnell2689]

The front office mishandled this like many other deals lately. Now they can mishandle Burleson/Baker, too. He still throws out more runners than the other two. Hopefully, Crooks can be the future. If we're going with youth, he has to be traded. Keep your starters besides Mikolas/Matz. If you keep Contreras he needs to catch mainly.

[@bschaeffer12]

Folks, you gotta chill on Baker haha. I like the guy but the reaction is wild to me. He's a bench bat if they keep him. Burleson didn't hit in the 2nd half. They have 3 catchers, two besides Willson that they like.

[@kevinr9943]

​@@bschaeffer12You can't have 3 catchers either bro. Lol That's almost as silly as 3 different 1B/DHs.

[@stephenconnell2689]

@bschaeffer12 Are we going young and trimming or not. I like Contreras, but that wasn't the plan. If we're not trading everybody, I keep Gray and Fedde, then try to get a stud in our trades. Good pitching, beats good hitting while we rebuild.

[@bobfitzgerald2875]

I'm sorry, but this smacks of Edman to center last year. He'll be gone by trade deadline.

[@bschaeffer12]

I don't understand the comment. Edman was going to play center. He only didn't because of injury.

[@bobfitzgerald2875]

Dude forgetting about Joe Mauer ROFL

[@bschaeffer12]

Who is forgetting about Joe Mauer? I never claimed moving from catcher to first base is unusual

[@MrTwessel30]

If Hererra isn't catching the majority of games, I'm already out on next season. I cannot watch 90-100 games of Pages. If he catches 60 games. Sure that is fine.

[@bschaeffer12]

My guess is it's closer to a 50-50 split

[@bschaeffer12]

But if they both catch 80 games Herrera is still going to play more than Pagés because he will then DH 30 or 40 times etc.

[@justinhutchins6753]

Bad move luken baker should starting first baseman willson is very good throwing runners out

[@bschaeffer12]

They have two catchers they want to play and Luken Baker is not as proven of a caliber of player as Herrera.

[@justinhutchins6753]

@ baker is a very good first baseman he only had one bad season in 2018 that he had 10 errors at first he’s done since then he have a fielding 992% baker is a great hitter just look at his numbers at fielding them are good numbers

[@bschaeffer12]

@justinhutchins6753 Baker has never played in the big leagues man you can't look at minor league numbers and declare what he would be as an everyday big leaguer. I am rooting for him to find a spot on the bench and as an occasional spot starter.

[@justinhutchins6753]

@ it’s called they should give him playing time at starting and I have been cardinals fan since 82 last two years they been needing to upgrade their outfield and bullpen

[@redfan15]

this is dumb you need middle players, you got more corners than you need already

[@bschaeffer12]

How? Tell me the names of the corner infielders. Reminder: Goldy is gone, Arenado is being traded.

[@kevinr9943]

​@bschaeffer12 At 3B we have Gorman, Donovan, Fermin, Sagesse & possibly even Walker if he can't handle RF. All options plus we could pick someone else up. At 1B we have Burleson, Baker, Donovan, Herrera, Pages & even Walker possibly if he can't handle RF. All options at 1st. There!! Corners covered!!!

[@redfan15]

@@bschaeffer12 All thistalke about cutting and trading. You have minimum of two young cheap 1b in Burley and Baker. If you get someone to off load Arenado to, stick Walker back at his original job 3b cheap and if he blows you have other utility guys to fill in. Contreras is a hitting catcher so but that aint new's. The young catcher calls a better game but hitting aint there. What it is they Yadi defense and calling, but that aint and and never was Wilson

[@roberthaizlip4057]

Horrible move and waste of money. Should have put Burleson there and traded Contreras for a couple or prospects and dumped millions

[@bschaeffer12]

He's their best hitter. It's not a total rebuild and tank. And he's not as expensive as Arenado

[@roberthaizlip4057]

@bschaeffer12 Far from the best hitter. Winn, Burleson, Donovan, much better at fraction of the salary. Herrera with a full season will prove much better hit for avg, clutch and power. It's a full rebuild no matter what they say. So dump all salary and stockpile prospects while u can for the players with overpriced salaries. Arenado is prob gone too and should be. We could have a quality entire lineup with no single player being paid over a million. With Lynn, Gibson, Goldy gone. Dump Arenado, Contreras, and Gray contracts we're freeing up about 120 million in salary. We could go get Soto for prob about 55 of that and build around him. The rest of the lineup is solid and will only get better . And we'd have enough left over to go get another #1 pitcher and young MLB ready rising star to put us over the top and still save money from last year to sink into our player development and be contenders NOW