Winchester 1887 & Reproductions. Myths and issues. WATCH BEFORE BUYING.

WATCH BEFORE BUYING! I COVER ORIGINALS AND REPRODUCTIONS!
Action problems
Ammo problems
Reloading the shotgun and it's issues.

[@modernvaquero]

Interesting, I am 5’8” and have absolutely no problems working the action when it is shouldered on my original 1887. I guess like everything, it comes down to training.

[@LibertysetsquareJack]

+1 The average American man was shorter in the 1880s than the avaerage American man is nowadays. Something for people to think about.

[@joker14410]

You have no idea how much headache you just saved me! I just bought an early 1887 and was having all kinds of problems with it with dummy rounds. Through in the brass shells I bought for reloading and operates just fine thank you so much.

[@northernwoodsman]

@@joker14410 glad you can enjoy it now 😊

[@ArizonaGhostriders]

Great info for people looking to buy.

[@northernwoodsman]

Well they have alot of "factory" issues... They aren't really issues since its the way they were designed. I guess people were rough back then. They were adopted by alot of law agencies... And outlaws im sure. It beats a double barrel for fire power in my book.

[@ArizonaGhostriders]

@@northernwoodsman It does.

[@gregz4249]

I had an original I bought in Cabelas parking lot brought home and been firing Walmart Winchester target loads ever since till someone triple offered what I had in the gun , then inherited grand dads , it’s beautiful because he used his 1897 more

[@cielopachirisu929]

I’m 5’4”, super shorty lol. No issue cycling it most of the time, even from the shoulder with plastic! You just gotta really slam that action down.

[@davecarlson1918]

Knew a guy who shortened the length of pull on his stock, and that helped him a lot to "whale" the action open brusquely enough to kick out the empty. These are interesting early Browning designs.

[@northernwoodsman]

My favorite shotgun :)

[@davecarlson1918]

@@northernwoodsmanloading it singly is about as cool as loading a Martini-Henry rifle. The lever does have to get thrown pretty dang far, however. My Chinese-mfr. copy is a beautiful piece and I like it, but I definitely have a lot of hang-ups with mine using standard--and not "period" 2-1/2" shells--2-2/3-in. plastic-hulled shot shells. I always thought that the top of the receiver could have easily had the sort of milled out top strap rear sight like a revolver, and then a more prominent front sight could have been added. I've spent more time with pump-actions, so that may have "spoiled" me in my appreciation of the virtues of the Model 1887/1901. Gotta say, if anyone ever made a copy of the old Burgess folder, I'd be all over it like a fat kid on a cupcake! Ha!

[@wayneblisner4685]

I am 6'2" and have no problems cranking the lever from the shoulder. I even have a thicker recoil pad installed. The ejection of the spent round occurs right at the end of the stroke. In fact there is no need for speed of the lever until the last bit of movement of the lever which requires a snappy action. For speed shooting the two shot fast load, positive ignition with an extended firing pin and small modifications to ensure reliable ejection without stovepiping make it a great gun the shoot fast. I use 2 and a half inch roll crimp shells.

[@georgiaboy4410]

Very informative video. It’s still a cool old gun even with its quirks.👍🏻

[@northernwoodsman]

Ya it is, but if you dont know what you are getting into. It can seem weird to some.

[@timberdrifter8225]

back before the you tube days a friend bought an original in pretty rough condition but shootable. we had a hell of a time getting it to run until we reloaded some shells and cut the crimp off. then it would sorta work. i started working the lever hard and it worked pretty good but he wanted to baby it cause it was old and he paid a lot for it. so he could never get it to work. now its a wall hanger. i thought it was just that particular gun that had those problems but from your video it looks like thats just how they work. fun gun once you learn how to run it. cant baby that action.

[@northernwoodsman]

They are all the same. Repros included. I would polish up just the inside to get it to work. If you still have it... Beat the damn lever like it owes you money... works like a charm.

[@kennyjensen6077]

Great video, man. I just started researching these before purchase and I haven't seen many videos. Your's is definitely the most informative.

[@northernwoodsman]

Thanks :)

[@ShayFeral]

I have a replica 1887 by Chiappa, and it runs just fine with plastic 2 3/4" shells. I've ran Remington, Winchester, Estate, Federal, Baschieri & Pellagri and Hornady shells through it. The only shells I have a problem with are the B&P Predator Buckshot, they're roll crimped and are just a little bit longer than typical star crimped shells. With those shells it only holds 4 in the tube, doesn't like an extra shell on the lifter when full, and they're more difficult to cycle. But, I think that's specifically those shells, my dad's 870 doesn't like the B&P Predator shells either. But the B&P heavy pheasant birdshot, which is star crimp; they run just fine. If I were to say anything about plastic shells in my gun, is that they don't eject quite as energetically as the brass shells in your video; they usually jump a little and tumble off the gun.

[@kenibnanak5554]

When I reload my plastic star crimped hulls I like to take 0.25" off their length. Then I roll crimp the reload. No issues yet either way.

[@jamisonarchycide8600]

I took apart my tube last night to find an extra plug. Take that out and you'll get 5 in the tube.

[@freddyw4555]

The Cimarron import works good with 20” barrel

[@piccolo7806]

I have one by Chiappa (case hardened, gorgeous), and I learned very quickly that it must be handled "with authority". It's run whatever I've put through it, but only after I started forcing it to submit to my will. It's a particular mindset that's a bit foreign to the operation of most other firearms that were made for widespread use. Most well made guns, and some not so well made, are very cooperative after an initial learning curve. Not this one. As I understand it, J.M. Browning didn't really want to make the 1887 in the first place, and I think that really explains it's feisty nature. It's lazy, so command it like an errant child. I love this gun. It's one of only two that I'd never consider selling.

[@northernwoodsman]

They aren't made for everyone that's for sure.

[@danstevens2204]

You’re right. I’m in Aus and have the stainless/silver and walnut version. Our government reclassified these so now even if I wanted to sell it nobody would buy it as it requires a license that also allows semi auto’s hence making the 1887 undesirable by comparison.

[@JWheeler331]

Good video. The 87/1901 guns are one of my favorite shotguns. I have an original in 12g and recently picked up a 1901 in 10g. I also have a Norinco copy that’s been worked by a cowboy gunsmith. I have never had any issues with the small hammer spur but can see where someone could. I have a couple videos on my channel shooting the 87s and one showing my reloading process for the brass shells.

[@pec1739]

thanks alot ! pack full of information

[@northernwoodsman]

Glad it helped

[@725venom]

Im 6'3 and it easy for me to shoot and reload , i have standard size arms .

[@northernwoodsman]

It's just because the lever through is really long on these. But I can too if I work it hard enough

[@Leverguns50]

Cool video, I have a reproduction sure is fun to shoot if I run it right I can get 2 shots a second, but it sure is a long action

[@northernwoodsman]

I watched your video on how you case hardened your '87. Looks good!

[@modernvaquero]

Just an FYI, you don’t have to hammer the action hard to make it work. If you are trying to run shells through it without pulling the trigger you will have problems with the next round feeding onto the lifter. The gun is designed for the next round to feed when the hammer drops. I can run mine slow and smooth with no problems at all. I have also had no problems running plastic shells. I did have an excellent gunsmith work on mine though so maybe he cleaned up whatever is causing your problems.

[@llkj7944]

Good advice, you have to work the lever hard, so many of my friend's try to cycle my norinco 1887 but always have issues, I have no problems with any 2 3/4 shells , it is not a pump! It is the first repeater 12 ga designed by John Browning 133 years ago!

[@northernwoodsman]

Exactly. Not to be compared with modern actions.

[@stanleycronk4136]

A gun designed for real men.

[@fhorst41]

I bought my original 1887 Winchester because it was a very significant John Browning design, being his first shotgun for Winchester and one that he did not wish to do, already having envisioned the pump shotgun. I was already aware of the ammo feeding issues, and that original 1887s are not meant for smokeless powder. I hpurchased a quantity of paper cartridges, as well as antique reloading tools, in order to make black powder 2½" shells to use in it, once i have fired them in another firearm.

[@northernwoodsman]

You can use smokeless powder just fine, Alot safer for these old relics,

[@fhorst41]

@@northernwoodsman you can in the 1901, and in modern reproductions, but the 1897 was not designed or built for smokeless powder pressures.

[@northernwoodsman]

@@fhorst41 do some research. I would rather shoot smokeless controlled powders then a load of explosive BP. They say that because people will load up modern ammo

[@Berniessen]

Take the lever apart and polish the plunger and the extractor its contacts points and then increase spring tension a bit and cycling improves....

[@northernwoodsman]

There's alot of modifications possible but people don't care.

[@pulldeauxduck2480]

Have an original 10 ga would like to fix up!!

[@senorcheesy9661]

I'm not sure if you're still answering questions still or not, but I've been considering between this and the Black Aces Tactical Pro Series L (a more traditional looking shotgun with a lever action). Will that shotgun have the same problems as the 1887 or would it be more wiser to got for the BAT one? I already have a pump too btw

[@northernwoodsman]

I'd go with this honestly. Easy to diagnose issues and it's a classic design. I'm not sure about the new lever models. I saw them before but they don't see super popular.

[@TheGosslings]

Two questions: 1) Can this run the Aguila minishells? I've had three (two IAC and one Chiappa) but never tried the minishells. Could solve a lot of issues. 2) Where can I get a large loop lever for this? I currently have an IAC model and the internet is coming up short when I run a search.

[@northernwoodsman]

People usually make them. Like I did on my 86. And I'm not sure about the shells. Only issue I could see is that they might be to short ton engage in the chamber properly.

[@TheGosslings]

@@northernwoodsman Yeah that is the common problem with the minishells. Wish I still ha da box to experiment. Thank you for the reply! Great video.

[@kevbo2012]

I have an original 1887 as well but I don't really have any of the issues you mentioned. I can work the action as slow as I can and it will still eject. Mine has 2 ejectors instead of 1 like the one you have. I wonder if it possible for you to add a second one so you don't have to work it so hard. The only issue I have is that some of the shells I reload( Winchester, Remington and Federal) have a slightly larger diameter rim than the fill length brass shells or even the federal paper shells and they bind up at the end of the magazine tube and I have to really force them in. With the brass and paper shells I can load them just as easy as my pump. I guess I am one of those long armed guys that can keep it up to the shoulder and work the action lol

[@northernwoodsman]

If you have two ejectors its probably the last year production. Maybe a 1901? They had two.

[@kevbo2012]

@@northernwoodsman Mine was made in 1892. I'm not sure when they switched

[@turtlewolfpack6061]

I have read (but haven't really been able to verify) that these reproductions are actually based on the 1901 which was only available in 10 gauge. There are subtle differences in the action, but more research is required.

[@northernwoodsman]

Depending on the brand yes... Ejectors are different and other minor parts.

[@turtlewolfpack6061]

@@northernwoodsman good to know. I like the idea because it fits in a saddle scabbard a lot better than my pump action shotguns and is not as fancy as my semi auto hunting shotgun. I think in that capacity it should work just fine.

[@northernwoodsman]

@@turtlewolfpack6061 they are really nice. I wouldn't get a Chinese one tho.

[@Berniessen]

U can shoot smokeless in them as the barrels of a 1887/1893/1897 are identical wenn they where made but the receiver they are screwed in required diffent machining,a 1897 barrel screws in 87 receiver but u need to screw it in 2 full revolutions more and change the cut out of the extractors,but u gain nothing by doing that as both barrels are just as strong.

[@northernwoodsman]

I use low pressure loads anyways. But good to know.

[@razieldrakis]

Would 12 gauge 1-3/4" mini shells work any better in these shotguns?

[@northernwoodsman]

You'd probably have feeding issues

[@srcbrain]

Do you have to squeeze your lever to get it to fire? I have an original 1st year and it won't fire if I don't

[@northernwoodsman]

No but I know some people do. They don't fire unless the action is fully closed.

[@AdventureswithP.C.Wabash6057]

I haven't cut my stock. I operate it just fine.

[@robjohnson3050]

I have an original model 1887 and have never had a jam or a problem. Operator error? I've never "beat it to death" to cycle it. Equipment issues?

[@northernwoodsman]

They aren't simple to operate, everyone says the same thing with these. The throw is extremely long on the lever so it isn't natural like other lever guns

[@robjohnson3050]

@@northernwoodsman I guess it could just be the operator. I have no issues running this beautiful machine. Maybe I'll do a video. Hmmm. Can't say they all suck for everyone.

[@Berniessen]

I have a original and i shoot it with light loads with smokeless powder like 16grains of Bullseye and 1oz of lead shot and the gun does awesome but i sometimes use 2 3/4 shells and they work too. Or i shoot 20grain of Vithavuori N320 and 1oz of lead shot. Mine is serial number 57461 meaning its a pretty late one made in 1894 i think it and its one with the double extactors they suppose to clamp the shell a bit better,then the early ones. I got this gun off gunbroker for a price of 800$ like a few months back and it was painted black with the text saying it wasnt shot in 60 years and a qualitfied gunsmith shut check it,and since i live in the netherlands a gunsmid i know well in the usa does the bidding for me and he checked it and said the barrel was new and the action was smooth and tight and okay and then came the gun to me and the barrel is as new,and i removed the spay can paint job with some paint remover and underneath it was perfectly blued, i wonder why a person would paint a gun thats like in very good condition,my gun is in very good conditon for that money u wont find thats even close this,i just had luck getting it and most people turned away from the black paint and the text,but really my gunsmid told me the barrel could be new and it is as new...It has 0.0 anything its shining all the way.. Anyway since i hate black powder for it smoke and residu in the barrel,i shoot it with normal plastic 12g shells as these barrels of 1887 1893 and 1897 winchester are quit strong i shoot 1700fps 1oz slugs out of my 1893 without any problem and i am doing that for years now,sooo dont tell me black powder design bla bla bla these barrels are strong enough to hold normal 12g shells. And yeah u need to rack the lever like the last 20% are the most important with ejecting,the lifter need to have enough speed so it kicks the spend shell extracted from the chamber out,if u know how to handle these guns they are not bad,and quit fun,since i was shooting 1893,s alot but since i have this 87 i take this more since its diffent.(my gunlaws in holland dont allow me to have modern guns without loads of paperwork and bla bla so i stick with the old ones i can have 1886 1887 1890 1892 1893 1894 and some 1895,s depending in what chambering winchesters are all legal just no clones)

[@northernwoodsman]

The barrel isnt the problem on the 1887, its pretty thick. Its the action. Its not very strong. Not all firearms are made the same. You cant say one is fine with smokeless, so they all are. And you need to know what you are doing with the powder. The right powder is critical, and the right pressure is a must.

[@Berniessen]

@@northernwoodsman i hope this acticle comes trough: www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=259371&sid=853b338357a8c2fb57d2e5f8c7cdd803&start=20 U shut read it,its very intresting,well if the action of a chinese replica holds up normal shells,then i am sure the genuine winchester will hold up too wenn i dont go in the max area of what is possible with a 12gauge shell..

[@Berniessen]

U shut replace ure carrier hinge pin that will delete ure lever play wenn its cocked and locked......Ure carrier pin is worn out a bit..Take the extractor off and file it off on the inside so it clamps a bit better but be carefull it finds its way in the cut out of the chamber/receiver.... I buy these things in the usa and they are shipped over but a 1887 is a horror gun like only 1 in 3 isnt broken or has a rotten barrel or a broken lifter or missing parts i am so good at repairing these things that i start to hate them.....I got one in last week...With a good bore but it seems bored over its a 12g but the bore is massive but okay the receiver is worn out where the shells are loaded shaped like a oval hole and the carrier doesnt clamp the shell hard enough and the piece on the lever is missing that pushes the carrier down,carrier hinge pin is worn out bigggggg time,i need atleast a full day work to get that gun to a tight working gun cause now its a wreck....And thats the same with all 1890s 1893s 1894s 1886s and 1887s

[@beausimmons8357]

I just bought a original 1887 and wanna know if I can shoot modern 2 3/4 shells out of it or if I have to use reloaded shells

[@northernwoodsman]

Reloads are better but people shoot target loads. They might also get stuck in the action but that doesn't really matter. Since the shells are too long.

[@beausimmons8357]

@@northernwoodsman I heard that it would damage the gun itself, is thst true?

[@northernwoodsman]

@@beausimmons8357 dont use high brass or steel shot

[@jacobmarley4907]

I agree that pump actions are faster and easier to use. I use a replica 1887 for cowboy shooting. I have no trouble shooting two shots from the shoulder and working the lever. It does take practice however. The problem with ejecting for most people as you have so well stated is the use of 2 3/4" shotshells. I use plastic 2 1/2" shotshells from RST. They can be ordered on-line and I paid $110.00 for a case of 250 rounds. The RST shot shells are made for vintage guns and are loaded with 1 ounce of shot and a light charge of smokeless powder. The RST shells are reloadable however reloading data is hard to come by and I had to develop my own loads. The replica loves the 2 1/2" RST shotgun shells however I will never run a shotgun stage with one as fast as I can run a pump or double gun. There are videos on KZbin that show where the action can be slicked up where it operates smoother however there is still the long lever throw as you have nicely pointed out. Thank you for a good video.

[@kenibnanak5554]

LoL, in my video I shoot mine (with plastic shells) from the shoulder. No issues. You have to snap the lever, can't baby the lever or you will get those jams.

[@northernwoodsman]

Plastic works, not every time.

[@kenibnanak5554]

@@northernwoodsman I have been playing with 12 gauge FH (the wildcat) with mine. My tip for anyone going hot in these is smooth off or close off the loop at the bottom of the trigger. Otherwise under a serious recoil it will catch your finger and make it bleed. On the Chiappa variant which has removable chokes, A rifled choke adds versatility. Their fiber optic sight will unscrew with a diet of slugs, so some Locktite is advised. Supposedly Chiappa also made a rifled barrel version for slugs only, but I am not sure any of those were ever imported into the US. Carlson makes a decent open choke muzzle brake which works well with stiffer loads but of course you should never use it with sabot slugs unless you want the gun to blow up while you are holding it. Adding a recoil pad is also a good option, but you will have to hand fit it. The Magtech brass will work of course, but for stiffer than normal loads the machined brass cases from RMC are a smarter (and stronger option) and more dimensionally precise. Strong brass can be made from cut down .50 BMG cases of course, but you will have to remove the base to the extraction groove, thread it, then machine a new threaded base with a rim to fit and attach that and thin the case mouth too. You will also have to convert the primer as not many stores carry #30 BMG primers. It is a lot of work and it is easier to just go with the already machined to fit cases from RMC (which use 209 primers).

[@DanOrel-px8md]

I am also 5'8" and have no issues working the action, its actually easier for me than a pump action. unless this guy has like t rex arms

[@northernwoodsman]

Good for you. These are know to have weird actions. Not for everyone. Especially if you're short 😁

[@djocharablaikan8601]

Brother you need to work on your anxiety and mental clarity a bit, other than that, video is appreciated and so are you, thanks for the quality info

[@Berniessen]

I am just watching this again and i see 2 flaws in ure gun.... 1 its pretty worn means i mean done tons of shooting or had never seen a drup of oil that means either the pin the lever turns on is worn or the receiver or the locking lugs had there best days......Solution is get the hole in the receiver reamed out and make a 100% spot on pin on lathe and weld the locking surfaces 1 by 1 and test fit them and file them down and do that over and over so they fit super tight and once they are super tight harden them.. I done this 3x in my life now bringing a worn out 87 back to life,i hour is gone before u know it.... 2th issue extraction this is a bit more tricky u need to bend that solid plate where the shell is clamped in a little bit (watch out as they love to break as they are hardend and super brittle i know this experiance) and u need to file the angle in the bolt a tad so the extractor grabs a bit harder and replace the spring a with a stiffer spring........U can make these gun work smooth as silk but its all hand work. Be happy ure loading gate in the receiver isnt worn as egg......meaning the receivers inside is shaped as a egg from 1000,s of rounds shoving in..that happend to guns i brough then u need to be creative....

[@northernwoodsman]

So far works really good. Only issue with it is the trigger spring. So it kinds shoots itself sometimes

[@Berniessen]

@@northernwoodsman Its a common problem that dont have a real fix as the issue is the mainspring is super stiff and creates great force on the notches where the sear grabs in the hammer but the hammers are surface hardend.......( save u a long story but i sometimes need to drill holes in a 1893,s hammers and no new drill bit makes a dent they are surface hardend with a dremel u need to chew trough the hardend lair once ure done u can drill what u want they are soft but brand new drill bits are useless) Once ure hammer doesnt get cocked by the sear it can mean a rounded sear (happends rarely just rarely) or dirt (if u have new old gun and cleaned it and let all deris fall in the action) but overal it means the full cock notch is worn out u can use a smal file and make a few strokes and it will be okay for a while but the metal isnt hardend and will wear pretty quick.....My advice is file till sear engages hammer but check angle of the filings u make u know what i mean wenn ure doing this remember this what i say now (as based on the levers wear ure gun did loads of rounds) and weld the locking lugs on the lever and weld it by heating it red heat and trow it some engine oil 2 3x........ I can make ure gun to a better gun than it left the factory so can U but U just need to spend some time on it,i own a 87 that i concider (I buy and sell constantly) my own and that gun is super super tight has a modern replica,s barrel on it and i shoot everything trough it...slugs steel shot and what i can find in 2 3/4 inch ammo and the gun last and last and is super tight but its all oiled super well..

[@codybarnes4369]

I have no problem with lever at shoulder....

[@northernwoodsman]

Most people do. It's quite a long action. It was a complaint with this model since it came out.

[@gregz4249]

Not for a limp wrist, once I thought my sprained wrist was healed till I tried shooting my 1887 , ouch

[@northernwoodsman]

For sure, no recoil compensation in these things 😁

[@jdkeith5373]

How tf you know I pick my nose

[@MartianBuddy]

This has no problem shooting slugs? Not many vids shooting slugs

[@northernwoodsman]

I do. Just plaint slugs

[@MartianBuddy]

@@northernwoodsman that’s p cool, i love to try shoot slugs 50 yards see how it feels. I admit terminator brought me here. Love the aesthetic

[@northernwoodsman]

@@MartianBuddy it's pretty accurate

[@MartianBuddy]

@@northernwoodsman nice! if you ever got the time love to see vid of ya shooting slugs

[@northernwoodsman]

@@MartianBuddy sure

[@Berniessen]

ure cough sounds bad i hope its gone.......

[@DanOrel-px8md]

bro... this guy is clueless