Windows Kernel Lockdown: A Win for Linux Gamers?

[@gardiner_bryant]

Affiliate links: ❯ Dudelings: Arcade Sportsball: store.steampowered.com/bundle/41202/Dudelings_Arcade_Sportsball_Deluxe_Edition/? ❯ Dudelings on Google Play: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.heavyelement.dudelings&pcampaignid=yt-every-video ❯ Dudelings on Itch.io: heavy-element.itch.io/dudelings ❯ Gulikit KK3 Max controller amzn.to/493jB9g ❯ Steam Deck accessories: amzn.to/4c2XKkM ❯ SanDisk 1 TB card: amzn.to/3z8mMfH ❯ Steam Deck Dock: amzn.to/3PDjgkt ❯ Email Newsletter: heavyelement.io/newsletter ❯ Amazon Suggested Products: amzn.to/4fAha2h ❯ Merchandise: shop.heavyelement.io ❯ 🐘 Mastodon: mastodon.online/@gardiner_bryant

[@nicholaswjamrock]

Apple kernel is totally locked down, whats the difference?

[@MashedStar]

I think its the publishers, not the developers who want to block Linux access.

[@aw1lt]

but why

[@MashedStar]

@@aw1lt Probably because of Tim Sweeney's and others lies about Linux being full of cheaters.

[@luken7959]

@@aw1lt for a long time linux is viewed like a thing hacker and crackers use, so to the average CEO don't want to support to not have the games hacked, otherwise the market share is not really bug so less money

[@9tailedyokai]

@@aw1lt Because publishers are nothing but boomer suits that think Linux won't bring in the money, despite majority of Linux gamers using Steam

[@flarebear5346]

It's as simple as not letting developer time to be used to develop for linux. Probably cost cutting

[@spiritmacardi9300]

"Live service game developers aren't supporting Linux." Another massive W for the penguin as far as I'm concerned.

[@gardiner_bryant]

I honestly agree. Live services are a disgusting, disgraceful industry money grab.

[@michaelhuss0]

This is not always true, however. Warframe has been producing an alternative launcher for WINE for years, for example. Now that there's pressure to be playable on the Steam Deck, DE made that launcher run by default and worked around a proton bug to make audio work correctly, etc. I have sunk literally thousands of hours into this game, over 99% of it on Linux. Just because a game doesn't have a *native* Linux version doesn't mean that the developer has abandoned us wholesale. This is why Proton is amazing; Valve reduced the barriers to entry for companies already supporting Windows so low that we get to play things we otherwise wouldn't. We even get VR titles at launch, thanks to Valve's native SteamVR working with Windows games. This is why Steam is the only PC marketplace that has earned my business!

[@jankowalski5310]

I play a decade in guild wars 2 on Linux and also do not have troubles. It plays through wine. Without additional barriers like anticheets many online games work great

[@celestialsylveon6453]

@@michaelhuss0 While not a live service game, shoutouts to Durante's team working on the PC ports of the Trails series, they always put out big blogs and mention all the cool stuff they worked on and one of them in the last bunch of games has been Linux/Steam Deck support! They don't make native ports but they do make sure everything works under Proton.

[@MrGamelover23]

Weirdly enough, Genshin Impact of all games seems to be supporting Linux. The anti-cheat no longer seems to care if you're using Linux like it used to. What's strange is that there was no official announcement or word of this from the developers themselves. And it's not like you can even buy a steam deck in China. Plus, as far as I know, Star Rail and ZZZ, their more recent titles, do not support Linux. I'm super grateful that it works, however, as that was the main thing keeping me from switching.

[@s01itarygaming]

Yeah I don't think it will really increase linux compatibility much, but it is a win for gamers to not have to install 3rd party tools with kernel access just to run a game!

[@cameronbosch1213]

And dare I say it, it should help Windows users too, because they don't have to worry about rootkits that can either crash systems or even harvest data.

[@MrGamelover23]

Yeah, but like he said, this would be both illegal and extremely monopolistic. So this isn't going to happen.

[@cameronbosch1213]

@@MrGamelover23 It might!

[@mix3k818]

I feel what screwed Vista the most is the overextended development cycle. People just weren't prepared for such a jump in minimum system requirements.

[@Bareego]

before windows 7 the whole kernel and related software of windows was just such a hodgepodge of crap that there was no way forward.

In reality they had only 2 years to develop Vista. They had to start from scratch as Windows Longhorn failed.

[@sergeykish]

Windows 2000 and XP was huge jump of requirements - Windows 98, Me runs comfortably on 32Mb RAM. Windows Vista underdelivered. Users expected huge changes like in 95, 98, 2000.

[@FlushDesert22]

Most of what screwed vista was the marketing. PC vendors litterally had Vista Capable stickers on PC's that only met the minimum requirements of Vista Home Basic, which means no they weren't "Vista Capable". Yeah, Vista had issues, but the 2 service packs fixed most of them to where SP2 is almost identical to Windows 7. If Windows 7 hadn't released months after SP2, maybe Vista's reputation could've gotten better.

[@tylerboothman4496]

​@@sergeykish Even the original XP (pre service packs) could chug along on just 64 MB.

[@blenderpanzi]

As a Linux user I hear messages of the imminent demise of Microsoft since 25 years now. I'm not holding my breath.

[@bloepje]

I never heard such a thing. I am a linux user for 30 years now. However, I do see times has changed from that ridicule those that use Linux to serious questions of people that want to switch. I've never done windows. I always used multiple Unix, minix, dos even (had to write vga drivers for dos based software), prime-os, and except for dos, everything was/is way better than windows will ever be. In the same time I also experienced the start of the massive FUD campaign from Microsoft that started in the 90's. They were really mowing around with their arms, for well past 2015.... They now have well executed school pre-condition programs so they could train people to ridicule everything but windows, under the disguise of education. So no, they did it well: they invested a lot more in PR and pre-conditioning people to like microsoft than they ever did and R&D and that pays off, because people are gullible. So no, while I hope there will be a demise of the windows operating system because it basically is sad, I doubt microsoft will ever die, because Bill Gates has earned too much.

[@merthyr1831]

Anticheat is IMO a skill issue for game devs - Live service games obviously want very tight controls on software access, but these games are usually heavily competitive to encourage paying for live service features and foster addictions. Games like Deep Rock Galactic, for example, do NOT have rampant cheating -- I wonder when we'll consider game design as a method of preventing anti-social gaming.

[@SkylerLinux]

As far as I'm concerned Cloud Strike and all of it's fall-out, proves that Microsoft is a Monopoly

[@cameronbosch1213]

Same with Apple and Google.

[@SkylerLinux]

@@cameronbosch1213 Google has already been indicted

[@alenygam6048]

@@cameronbosch1213 Google is a convicted monopoly

[@ImperiumLibertas]

@@SkylerLinux companies are allowed to be monopolies as long as they don't use their market advantage to make illegal deals. For example Google paid several companies to make their search engine the default and because Google was a monopoly that was deemed anticompetitive. As long as Microsoft doesn't pay companies to use Microsoft over Linux or purposefully purchase groups to eliminate competition then there they haven't really broken a law. I think the best argument for a Microsoft monopoly is how they spend a ton of money to support open source projects so they can influence their development or lack there of. Adopt, extend, extinguish is a phrase that's commonly used to describe Microsoft.

[@SkylerLinux]

@@ImperiumLibertas No no no no, nobody is allowed to have Monopoly. Just look at Bell Systems and AT&T

[@revengerwizard]

To be honest, being able to bypass userspace and running directly through the kernel even for security reasons defeats the whole purpose of running an OS with multiple rings of protection in the first place. Especially after what happened with Crowdstrike.

[@tkabiranik]

When Linux becomes the next best thing, remember those companies that did not side with Linux.

[@sepg5084]

Linux is already the next best thing, in Mobile. In PC? Maybe 50 years later 😁

[@cameronbosch1213]

​@sepg5084 In servers and super computers, Linux is already ubiquitous. In PCs, it's likely at around 3 - 4% without including ChromeOS. Given that less than a decade ago it was stuck at 2% at best, that's pretty damn good progress. Of course, Microsoft certainly is helping Linux adoption with Windows 11 being the next Windows ME in terms of OS quality, a doubling down of ads and spying, and the ridiculous system requirements.

[@McGregorMX]

@@cameronbosch1213 It caused me to move back to windows 10. I won't upgrade, ever, if a Microsoft account is required.

[@somenameidk5278]

@@McGregorMX Please switch to Linux before W10 stops receiving security updates though.

[@bhargavjitbhuyan9394]

​@@cameronbosch1213 it reached 4.5~5% already (no ChromeOS). And 7.1% if ChromeOS is included.

[@lunaxyzi]

Some leaks says valve is working on a machine learning anti-cheat which does not need kernel access. If it happens it would be game changing.

[@hanro50]

If a cheat can be detected by humans. Chances are that machine learning algorithms could detect it as well. Even if said anti-cheat only forces cheaters to play more carefully. It'll still be a win in stopping the most annoying kinds of cheaters.

[@seeibe]

As I said before, the code that allowed for CrowdStrike to deploy these ".sys" files which ultimately caused the crash was certified by Microsoft. If Microsoft certified it, then Microsoft also is to blame for what happened when CrowdStrike pushed the faulty update, bypassing not only their own code review, but also Microsoft's certification process, which Microsoft allowed them to bypass.

[@codecode1948]

Crowdstrike and security software are unique and must be allowed to be rapidly deployed without Microsoft certifying it to protect against any emerging threat

[@seeibe]

@@codecode1948 That's on Microsoft to find a solution. Allowing third parties to deploy arbitrary code to ring 0 without any sort of validation is not a solution, it's a failure on Microsoft's part and they should take the blame.

[@TheLegendarySage]

Certification is a pretty good way to prevent issues like these from happening, but it's not fool proof. The Linux Foundation also has a certification program for the kernel, or at least training courses for it, so unfortunately by your logic the Linux Foundation (enforced by the community) is also to blame for the kernel panic Crowdstrike did a few months ago also involving the Falcon sensor. Bad policing of the code running in the kernel can come from anywhere, not just Microsoft.

[@MrGamelover23]

​@@codecode1948Same thing with anti-cheat, and it's also the same reason why both need kernel level access.

[@myne00]

Not exactly. Microsoft certified the module that runs the package. They don't certify every package. It's like me making a bad spreadsheet that crashes Excel. You'd blame Microsoft for certifying Excel and give me a free pass. That's the logic you're using.

[@gr-lf9ul]

"microsoft doesn't shoulder any of the blame here" that depends on if crowdstrike's driver was whql certified by them despite being able to run arbitrary unsigned code via uncertified network updates

[@Winnetou17]

I'm not sure this is a good take. The Kernel lockdown is exactly what MacOS does already, from what I understood. If I'm not mistaken, these APIs would basically have the same access as a kernel-level driver, but to run in the user-mode, so if it crashes, the system doesn't go down. And that would not remove the 3rd party software companies being able to make the same exact applications. Neither for the EU to come down on Microsoft for pushing competition away. Unless I'm very wrong somewhere.

[@nzhook]

The EU thing was more of a competition thing. Microsoft wanted to run their 'defender' in kernel space while limiting other companies to user space. So those companies would have a slower experience or if an API didn't exist Microsoft had an advantage. If MS was limited to user space as well then there would be no issue.

[@milasudril]

@@nzhook You can then define defender as part of a kernel-level security subsystem. Now it is not a separate product anymore, but a part of NT itself.

[@Christobanistan]

Correct. Microsoft tried to do it in 2002, but CrowdStrike and other security product vendors didn't want to adjust, so they screamed "monopolistic behavior" to the very stupid E.U. regulators, who have since required Microsoft not to implement it. After the CS outage, they believe they have legal cover to do so now.

[@Bareego]

I don't give a hoot about online multiplayer shooters anyway, so anti-cheat can go eat a pumpkin

[@douggale5962]

Exactly. Who wants to play against a bunch of arrogant hateful jerks? I can't stand multiplayer.

[@talibong9518]

Anti cheat don't even work, WZ especially is full of aim botters and wall hackers

[@Xeno911]

Especially the sweats or duo

[@anon_y_mousse]

Agreed. If I want to do online multiplayer, I'll play Unreal 1 and play against others my age who aren't douchebags. If a game requires a rootkit, I'm just going to opt out. And if it doesn't require one now, since the possibility of an update adding one exists, I eschew all updates. So if a game isn't ready to go on launch, it's a no go for me.

[@WagnerBrahm]

The Epic case is more that they don't want to see Steam Decks running their game.

[@cameronbosch1213]

Which is strange, given EAC can run with Proton but for some reason they won't check the box.

[@MrGamelover23]

​@@cameronbosch1213Well, duh, it's because running with proton isn't kernel level, meaning that it's actually useless. Tim Sweeney was right about one thing. In order to make an actual kernel level anti-cheap for Linux, you'd have to support a bunch of kernels, because there's no one standard kernel everyone is on. It also means anyone using custom kernels like the nobara project would be out of luck Unless you went out of your way to also support custom kernels. Proton anticheat is useless.

[@bulletflight]

@@MrGamelover23 Any anticheat that isn't server-side validation of all inputs is just window dressing. Never trust the client with anything other than display.

[@SianaGearz]

@@bulletflight An alternative to server side is consensus and rollback based, i.e. all peers could be simulating each others' inputs and then voting on what the outcome of the action is. If cheaters with the same cheat want to play among themselves, so they may, they won't be bothering other players, but there are ways to get them caught even under that arrangement, like you could have spot-check replay validation by an authoritative server. Of course this is massively complicated to actually pull off, unlike server simulation. But the advantage is vaguely halved total latency and massively lower hosting costs. Disadvantage is... well many. General problem... by input simulation, you can't prevent wallhacking, and you can't prevent aimbotting, if the inputs are crafted to be plausible. These are two main types of hacks. Thus you cannot go trust-free, this is why intrusive client anti-cheat exists to begin with. Other relevant type of attack is time distortion by simulating a bad connection, lots of exploits there.

[@Jack-c6z]

They still think they're competing with valve.

[@supermorph]

valorant is one of those said games that will never support anything linux based. when windows locks devs out of the kernel space, i wander what they will do. mainly because if you play that game they have a kernel based driver, and if for some reason you do something (even if the something isnt to do with the game) and that driver doesnt like the signatures of what the driver sees, then thats not an account ban, thats a motherboard ban. think thatll put a huge uproar if they still continue to not favour linux, or potentially a decline in their user base. funny thing is, once this video completed, the valorant game came up as an ad. i tried to install the game once in the past, and as soon as i knew it had all that intrusive driver stuff, i declined to install it. i am not a person who goes and cheats, but i don't like companies having more access to the windows i paid for than my user account does. (lets assume or pretend i do not know how to use stuff as trustedinstaller for the basis of general every day use)

[@jessephillips8319]

Epic gets to view Linux as competition now. Valve has really laid out a path that places them as the Linux Gaming store. Epic could go that route too, but they don't want to utilize proton or build their own.

[@milasudril]

The Linux kernel is also sort-of locked by the license, and it is probably a good thing to lock the kernel, as long as you can manage to write all drivers yourself. If NT were locked, Microsoft would have a monopoly on writing drivers for NT. For Linux, this could be a good thing, since hardware vendors must publish their spec. If they offered their spec under an NDA to Microsoft only, that must be illegal.

[@hanro50]

It's not that simple. Linux is a monolithic kernel. All drivers run in kernel space by default. Windows NT is a hybrid kernel. Some drivers, commonly printer drivers, run in user space.

[@milasudril]

@@hanro50 You can run "drivers" in user space on linux as well, by using some already existing interface. A printer attached to the network, or some kind of serial device. When we talk "real" drivers, both NT and Linux have most of the stuff running in the kernel.

[@georgesobczyk1494]

My hope is for gaming is for Valve to either create a new anticheat or sort of change their existing one. Steam os can be the future for gaming specific OS

[@Davivd2]

Isn't the real problem that monopoly of Microsoft? If every company effected by Crowdstrike had a Linux of Mac back up system, nothing would have happened. I know this is about Linux gaming, but the real problem is bigger than gaming.

[@imeakdo7]

Crowdstrike also affected Linux systems a few weeks before, it's just that no one noticed because Linux is less common than windows outside of data center servers

[@82andymac]

I love the new design of the BSOD compared to the XP era. The little sad face makes me think M$ actually cares😢

[@mikitoburrito]

it was some random devs or designers, not microshit

[@vortex05]

Or... They can make windows so bad people will actually be pushed to seek alternatives.

[@cameronbosch1213]

That's me, for sure!

[@McGregorMX]

My company is shifting to macbooks. We deal with microsoft products almost exclusively, and we're moving away from windows.

[@cameronbosch1213]

@@McGregorMX Why MacBooks? If anything, it makes you MORE reliant on a single company.

[@MrGamelover23]

​@@cameronbosch1213Yeah, but it supports the software that people actually use, i.e. Office and stuff like that. Alternatives are worthless if they aren't 100% compatible in both functionality and exporting. It's a sad reality of software.

[@cameronbosch1213]

@@MrGamelover23 Have you tried OnlyOffice?

[@MrGamelover23]

We don't have easy anti-cheat and battle eye. We have a functionally useless user space equivalent. They aren't kernel level. And much like how security software requires kernel access to do its job, client-side anti-cheat requires kernel access to do its job. And they're not going to make a native Linux version because that would cost more money than they would make back.

[@ESCAcarlos]

I am already team linux, I only play what comes out on linux or what is possible to be played on linux! And that makes me feel proud of myself somehow!

[@ZaberfangX]

It should be illegal to ban anyone for being falsely accused for cheating.

[@Toxked]

@ZaberfangX The problem is that there will always be false positives and false negatives.

[@ZaberfangX]

@@Toxked yup I know , why should be illegal, I know won't be or good plan how to stop cheater or who is not cheating.

[@BOFH_]

I'd say it should be illegal to ban someone without saying a specific reason they were banned. This is especially true for when people (usually kids) are banned because of foul language, and their parents failed to raise them properly so the kid who got banned genuinely doesn't understand that certain words are not okay to say.

[@danfg7215]

Another solution might be to herd people who are detected cheaters so they can only play with each other or against impossible bots, leaving the rest of the non-cheaters alone.

[@stupidburp]

Not illegal but should be an automatic full refund approval by the marketplace. If a company breaks the user experience with their game they should give back the money spent by the user.

[@ArtificialDuality]

Msft does shoulder SOME of the blame though. They studied, approved, and signed this kernel driver.

[@24wherath36]

Well last I heard the update that broke everything was not an update to the kernel components and therefore technically did not need to be verified by Microsoft. The update was to the falcon sensor which runs in userspace, but it does talk directly to the kernel components. The update was changing a regex that matched for 21 elements into a regex that only matched for 20 elements, but the logic inside the falcon sensor was hard coded to check an array of 21 elements so it checked memory that was out of bound, which in turn crashed the sensor. The kernel components coded so that the sensor cannot be killed without making windows bluescreen on purpose so that an attacker can't just make the sensor crash and bypass all the security.

[@ArtificialDuality]

​@@24wherath36 One of the files resulted in all zeros. The kernel module handled that poorly. It should have had a graceful way to handle that. Microsoft reviewed this software, and approved code that would take down the kernel if it was fed data that is all zeros. There is no reason it couldn't have been coded to simply ignore the erroneous data and keep the system running as normal.

[@hexlocation]

@@ArtificialDuality I don't really agree with you there. What if continuing to allow the kernel to run without CloudStrike (or any other security firm in this example) results in vulnerable machines getting exposed? What if other critical software that is installed on the machine is dependent on a kernel module being active?

[@ArtificialDuality]

​@@hexlocation I don't understand how you're refuting what I am saying. Microsoft signed code that had a fatal flaw. Microsoft reviewed, and approved code that would crash if given bad input data.

[@joshuawaterhousify]

​@ArtificialDuality He's not refuting it, he's saying he can understand the reasoning for why that may be the intended behaviour. In which case it wasn't a flaw; it was an intentional security feature that was erroneously triggered by the update being broken.

[@arranmc182]

in the past some anti cheat venders have said until more native ports come to Linux they will not bother trying to support the ant cheat as some devs have stated that proton actually makes ant cheat harder to work on Linux and that Proton maybe the main reason for why devs dont care about fixing it as some of the native Linux versions of the anti cheat dont work at all with Proton and needs nativbe ports of the games so if devs keep using Proton to bring games over then there will end up probably having to disable features to get stuff working fully in Linux, iv seen some games just outright remove the online stuff sop that the single player can be played, I know some old devs said a while back for Easy Anti Cheat that the Linux version was not at all designed to work with proton games.

[@robotron1236]

Putting everything in userspace is great, WINE/Proton will pick up the slack. It won't be instantaneous, but it will be a good thing in due time.

[@GlitchedVision]

sure we have System76 and other vendors making Linux based PCs but let me ask you all a question... How many of them do you see at wall-mart, best buy, target, or any other stores normal people generally walk into to buy a new computer? none? yup, kinda figured that... until that changes, Linux doesn't have a snowball's chance in hades of becoming the primary operating system. until normal people can test drive and buy Linux based desktops and laptops right from the display stands like you can with windows pcs and chromebooks, they will continue to ignore Linux as that means having to reinstall a new OS which 98% of people just don't want to deal with. Why else do you think Geek Squad still exists :D

[@cameronbosch1213]

Framework might actually be our best bet. Unfortunately, many Linux first OEMs are still WAY behind in terms of build quality, features, and price compared to alternatives that come with Windows. I do wish that governments would force OEMs to make an option to save around $150 (the cost of a Windows license) to not have an OS installed or to have a Linux distro as an option pre-installed. I wonder how many people would choose it...

[@stolenlaptop]

Alien ware steam machines are the dream. Make it happen.

[@cameronbosch1213]

@@stolenlaptop They did have one, but it was too before its time. And now Dell is basically Microsoft'a best friend.

[@imeakdo7]

It's a chicken or the egg situation. Thankfully wine and proton are improving dramatically so it can change

[@zer0r00t]

Like that smash button!

[@krtirtho]

When general people complains about your game, it's just a few apology tweets to resolve that But when engineers complains about your game, your company goes bankrupt And most of the Linux users are pseudo engineers or at least tech enthusiasts

[@Siltprogramation]

I mean, those of us that play games also did so on Windows before. So it kind of doesn't matter, it is not like the pool of tech-savy people interested in your game is going to go up dramatically.

[@MrGamelover23]

I'm not a game developer, but I've heard that unless you use something like Steam runtimes, making a Linux native game that doesn't break after some time without being updated in perpetuity is kind of impossible.

[@nzhook]

That's not limited to Linux, it's all OS's. Windows 95 games also don't work without some form of emulator, you could argue that it's easier to get older Linux games to work than old Windows ones.

[@MrGamelover23]

@@nzhook Huh. And yet, old Windows games work better on Linux. I guess maybe the moral of the story is that native games suck.

[@mattsgamingstuff5867]

@@MrGamelover23 I'd say it's more that compatibility layers are inevitable in the long run. API's get deprecated and hardware changes. Linux is guilty on focusing more on API stability than ABI stability. For open source stuff you recompile and done, but closed source stuff was compiled once years ago, so you are more dependent on the binary interface.

[@VitharPL]

Well. You are right, and that suddenly made my enthusiasm vented.

[@elwen8525]

Your right I gotta switch to Linux some how

[@GWFO]

@@elwen8525 can i help ive been using it for about 2years still alot to learn

[@Bareego]

I did 2 months ago, it's great. My personal fav in Mint XFCE. You can still keep your windows if you dual boot just in case.

[@GWFO]

@@elwen8525 learn how to use virtual box or how to duel boot u wont regret it TRUST

[@cameronbosch1213]

Have you tried Tuxedo OS. It's not just for Tuxedo computers, it's basically Linux Mint but with KDE Plasma, so a Windows-like UI by default, but very customizable.

[@DrMario3077]

Whatever distro you decide to choose, there are plenty of resources to learn how. Good luck!

[@32th]

My question is how exactly locking down the kernel will work? Microsoft already requires that every driver be signed with a certificate issued by one of their root authorities.

[@gardiner_bryant]

Further restrictions on drivers, more stringent driver requirements, and active protection. There's a link in the description.

[@sarahnachtrose]

I switched to Linux Garuda 3 years ago. I would not have dared to take this step on my own. But I had someone who supported me through the process of switching to and using Linux. In the three years, I only had to use the console three times. The biggest bugbear of Windows switchers to Linux. The console. As a simple user, you get the impression that you have to be able to programme in order to understand how the console works. But Garuda is very user-friendly. I can do and set everything via menus. And the three times I had to use the console I found instructions in Linux forums.

[@darckangenoir]

well eBPF could be the solution to safe kernel access, + it works on both Linux on windows

[@gerarderloper]

A API for specific and secure access to portions of the kernel would be a better route to go instead of anti-cheat being given entire control.

[@FoxyAnimater]

So basically what you're saying is that it won't help Linux gaming but will help Linux as a whole become more of a mainstay for typical desktop and laptop market share, correct?

[@Jackarius86]

The scales are about to tip in favour of linux and it's glorious!

[@JohnSmithZen]

The day Windows 10 goes EOL I'm switching to Linux FOR GOOD.

[@Punmaster9001]

kernel level anti-cheat doesn't even work, cheaters still bypass it easily

[@ShuAbLe]

It's impressive to me that Microsoft didn't also took the heat for the CrowdStrike incident. As in theory Microsoft tests the drivers and make sure they're safe to run in kernel space, they let it run.

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

the linux foundation let a faulty linux driver run in april causing kernel panics too. (on debian, crowdstrike too lol)

[@Kinos141]

Glad you're putting things in perspective.

[@adenansu]

If a third party dev made an app that logs/pops up a message/requests the user to authorize when other apps try to do something in the kernel level. That would be entertaining to see.

[@Redhotsmasher]

I think this could actually help Linux. Think about it, what makes Windows tolerable to a lot of people since MS are useless at, well, everything now it seems? Third party software. Third party hacks bringing back a sane start menu, third party antivirus keeping your computer safe etc. Once that gets largely blocked and Windows gets swarmed with viruses and malware (because I don't think MS Defender will keep up), RIP Windows. And as for the inevitable cat & mouse game between WINE/Proton and game devs/publishers, I don't think the game industry is actually going to win that war long term.

[@tallpaul9475]

It is too bad they just don't make Linux versions of the gaming titles that work on Windows. Would be great to have Call of Duty on Linux natively.

[@MrGamelover23]

Unfortunately, there's no kernel level anti-cheat for Linux yet. It just runs in Proton, which means at the user level, which means it's functionally useless. If we want developers to support Linux, then they would have to make a Linux version of their rootkits, but that would cost a lot more money than it would make back.

[@CouldBeMathijs]

@@MrGamelover23 And would probably need to be proprietary or at least obfuscated so it won't be reverse engineered the moment it comes out. And that would defeat a lot of the spirit Linux stands for. Though people who absolutely do not wish to have it installed, don't have to play the games that need it? So maybe if it's worth the money to someone, it could be a viable solution

[@MeltEmber]

With every day that passes i understand people less and less who still use windows.

[@LisSolitudinous]

I use 10 because damn Nvidia Optimus stuff and I can run pirated games😅 Other than that - win is sheitt

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

i use it (10, 11 SUCKS) becasue: i like the ui, find installer exe > package manager for non cli programms and it can do most of the things i need, for the rest i have a linux dualboot (ubuntu)

[@MeltEmber]

@@ItsCOMMANDer_ i mean, i respect your decisions, but in all honesty: in which way is going to a website, hoping it to be the correct one, downloading a file, running it, clicking through a bunch of EULA stuff, getting asked every single time whether you want desktop and start menu shortcuts, waiting for your OS to ask you for admin permissions, and then clicking once again to finish the installation, and then potentially having to do a reboot more convenient than running a single command that even keeps your installed stuff up to date as a treat? (even windows has a package manager nowadays called winget because they realized how bad the situation actually is). If you need a proprietary blob full of surveillance and fun stuff like the newest zero-input RCE exploit, sure yes, then windows does all of that, you don't need linux for that. Sorry, windows simply is not an option for me anymore, and i hope people one day realize it shouldn't be one for them as well.

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

@@MeltEmber depends, i just like the customization ability (mostly windows explorer context menu stuff, localizations, to create a desktop and startmenu shortcut ect)

[@MeltEmber]

@@ItsCOMMANDer_ honestly, i have a problem with calling those "customization", they're the bare mimimum. Learn theming and make things look the way you want by changing themes, icons, fonts or even manually editing the theme to make it look the way you want. Don't like GNOME's file manager? Try a different file manager and see if you like it any better. You can use alternatives to just about any application in Linux. Don't wanna type a bunch of repetitive stuff in a terminal? Make an alias for that long command. Want to string a bunch of commands together? Write a shell script - you have a lot more control over Linux scripting than you would over a simple DOS batch file. Don't like like GNOME or KDE? There's countless other window managers. Choose your own and run something that fits your workflow. Automate stuff. Create your own services. Yes you can do that with windows as well, but good luck doing that without installing a lot of bloatware first that still all sits on top of the existing broken environment...

[@AmaroqStarwind]

RIP MalwareBytes real-time protection. That’s the only third party software I allow to touch *my* Windows Kernel.

[@atmphil1]

I think Linux should be the OS for gaming. And windows should be for like work and school and things like that.

[@DenisC-pr4jw]

Crowdstrike bricked my win10 twice in a day. Since then I banned MS from my pc. I'm on Big Linux now, it's based on Manjaro/Arch.

[@quantumangel]

Microsoft was the one who sold falcon as part of their azure sentinel package. Plus their os should have better error handling, safeguards and failsafes. Of course they are to blame here.

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

linux would have reacted the same way and did, crowdstrike falcon kernel panics debian in april causing

[@quantumangel]

@@ItsCOMMANDer_ Caused kernel panics on *some* debían and red hat systems. Did not halt critical infrastructure by crashing every single installed instance causing damage for several billion dollars, even though most server, snterprise and super computers run Linux.l

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

@@quantumangel "stil linux foundations fault"

[@quantumangel]

@@ItsCOMMANDer_ Still didn't charge millions for a service that crippled mayor critical industries. That's inexcusable. And not comparable.

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

@@quantumangel *that* was CrowdStrike

[@percy9228]

love the video, I have a question. If Microsoft doesn't close the kernel, what would they have to do so something like this could never happen again. clearly you can't allow this to happen intentionally or unintentionally

[@Bareego]

I think the issue here was rather that crowdstrike had a large customer base, because they made it easy to comply with regulations. Also that crowstrike had to put their software so far down the kernel, windows would refuse to boot without it. If windows ran on Btrfs people could have just rolled back by one and boot.

[@seeibe]

The driver was *Microsoft certified*. In this driver, which went through a rigorous review process at Microsoft, Crowdstrike installed a backdoor that would allow them to funnel code updates into the kernel without going through Microsoft's review process. Microsoft certified this backdoor. In conclusion, all Microsoft would have to do, would be to actually pay their engineers to properly look at third party kernel code before certifying it.

[@percy9228]

​@@Bareego rolling back means it was allowed to happen. So your saying this can't be mitigated as it currently stands?

[@percy9228]

@@seeibe okay this makes sense, so basically Microsoft are 100% to blame since it's they approved the code on their platform.

[@CouldBeMathijs]

@@percy9228 Well 100% is a bit much, Crowdstrike's testing should have been far better too, but Microsoft isn't a guiltless party

[@pwcorgi2000]

To take advantage of a crisis? THAT"S VERY DISGUSTING!!!

[@ltxr9973]

yeah locking down Windows even more is not the solution, you are completely right

[@AURON2401]

Linux is already superior for gameing in general lol. Only thing you need is a good computer - and game not set to forcibly check if its linux or not, and you're set for life.

[@t1m3f0x]

Honestly the best thing I can think of to solve the Linux anti-cheat problem would be for Valve to ban games that are only unplayable on Linux because of the anti-cheat from Steam.

[@bodycountplays2915]

Your point about MS becoming complacent has been proven in the real world, with wrestling, when WWE bought WCW, they essentially bought out thier only competition, the product got worse and worse over the years, it's only started getting good in the last few years.

[@vladislavkaras491]

Thanks for the news!

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

Microsoft: Finally makes a good decision linux community: windows L; linux W

[@bhargavjitbhuyan9394]

Like that smash button? What!

[@test-rj2vl]

I wonder how they gonna enforce kernel lockdown? I would imagine that people will just start to mod windows. Like right now devs get their driver signed because it's not too much effort and gets things done. But if that is no longer possible, I would guess we just gonna see modded windows where those checks are patched out. Like closed source games get mods all the time and Windows has much more users than some game so sooner or later there will be some bootable linux CD that can unlock your windows.

[@douggale5962]

You already handed your machine over to Microsoft. It is their computer, they are just allowing you to use it sometimes. This is not an exaggeration, whatsoever.

[@maxbleatvt]

I find it hard to believe that the majority of players will mod windows when they can just install valorant and be happy.

[@fantom0369]

Don't forget what happened with Vista after windows 7 was released, they got a service pack which fixed the hardware requirements and quite a few bugs. remember Windows 7 had lower hardware requirements at launch than vista had at launch. perhaps microsoft will stop being idiots and actually release windows 12 with much lower requirements since most people, myself included refuse to upgrade to the attrocity that is windows 11. while I would love to see them force these rootkit anti-cheats into user space I'm not sure a move like locking the kernel after all this time would go well for them. they should have done the kernel lockdown when they made the move from Windows 9x to Windows XP. Alas Microsoft has always had the "Make it pretty then make it functional" philosophy which is pretty bass ackward.

[@chudchadanstud]

Based! MS should have never done this. Not playing Liver service games

[@ibrahimhussain3248]

I don't see a smash button. Where is it?

[@Grimsace]

Game developers aren't going to seriously develop for linux until the platform gets more adoption. On the steam hardware July 2024 survey only 2.08% use linux as there operating system. To be clear, I do think developers will do this eventually just not right now. Hardware adoption (looking at you nvidia) has a similar problem.

[@atmphil1]

I always thought all company’s are greedy they are literally taking money out of their own pockets.

[@MrGamelover23]

So basically, if they closed access to the kernel, it would be extremely illegal. I guess they don't really have a choice then.

[@filipflidr2654]

linux is just too fragmented to become major desktop OS. Android is the best linux distro out there.

[@coleshores]

They are going to lock it out using the Pluton security processor and that will really screw Linux gaming

[@Soosheon]

I still think Vista was actually the best version of Windows ever made

[@TechnoMinded-qp5in]

Just make everything work on Steam running Linux by default and Microsoft will lose for sure. I am noticing a software FORCING emulators to work on Steam instead of Lutris this will be a HUGE win if Steam adopts even more old-school games from the 2000s I got games like Quake and Populous the Beginning on Linux give it time Steam will find ways to make more games work on Linux by default if they want the money that bad.

[@JohnWilliams-gy5yc]

Oh! That's how they pronounce Godot Engine. 7:24

[@sfalpha]

Actually Anti-cheat in the future will just require "Virtualization". Problem solved. Game will run in specialized "Container" that game developer or it's anti-cheat platform are certified to supply with game itself and cheat software are almost obsolete, given Windows and Linux have some standard virtualization layer and provide graphics/input API for virtualization that fast and mature enough. It's not distant feature tho, since Windows 11 are already enable this on OS level for security, so they already have pave the way for this to happen very soon. Most game cheat software they do inject some routine in to running process or drivers. With virtualization it's a lot harder (but it still possible if game packet not encrypted by some means)

[@Jupiter__001_]

I think that's how security and anti-cheat worked on the XBox360

[@MofoMan2000]

So many pictures of the Denver airport.

[@gardiner_bryant]

Is it any surprise that Microsoft runs ~the mouth of hell~... I mean the Denver Airport?

[@PavelShevchuk]

I tried Whisky on my M3Pro mac a few days ago and it runs games better than SteamDeck. I believe Microsoft is overestimating their leverage on gamers. The world is not gonna switch away from Windows overnight but every time they pull a dick move, some users will decide to not spend money on MS platform anymore

[@s9209122222]

It's time for you to upgrade to 4K recording equipment.

[@gardiner_bryant]

I record my videos in 6k, thanks.

[@AQDuck]

_Proooooobably_ not a good time to use Halo: MCC as an example of a "good" case of anti cheat...

[@onswiftwingsofficial]

I really hope I get to see the day when Microsoft falls, at least just in Windows. I want to see Microsoft brought to court and forced to sell off their monopolized assets. Minecraft needs to be 100% Mojang Studios again, no more MS Account bullshit. Halo could be cross platform.

[@cameronbosch1213]

Same goes for Apple being broken up and Google being forced to divest Chromium.

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

modes mojand studios still make minecraft but it itself is owned by ms

[@stoino1848]

I think devs WI realize that client anti cheat wont work anymore. Wasnt it MSI with some "ai" in the monitor to process dota/lol images and show additional cues on-screen? In my opinion server-side, ai-assisted, checks are the way to go. Train the ai to detedt abnormal things.

[@stupidburp]

Client side anti cheat shenanigans were always shady anyways.

[@zedtrek]

You should call your channel "Daddy Linux"

[@panzrok8701]

Most Games that don't work on Linux are not worth playing anyway.

[@peterpramshafer933]

And windows is making it where you have to buy a new computer

[@elalemanpaisa]

I am a die hard linux user for like forever but yet on a client i dont take it serious either 😂😂

[@williambaldwin9346]

2015 or so I dropped Windows for good.

[@kamertonaudiophileplayer847]

This is a simple politics, there is nothing to do with a particular OS. Say first - who needs the crowdstrike software? No one use case shows that it needs the software. So why it's used? Because simply some people convinced other people that they need the software. Easy? Sure, and most used software is used in the case, not needed software for nothing.

[@Drew19822002]

Linux will be the new Windows in the next few years. The reason I see this happening is because of all the crazy things going on everywhere. You got Recall being the biggest Red flag coming from Microsoft, That made me switch, You also got an election coming up, and information is the biggest most important thing on our planet right now. So Privacy, and Security is going to be focused on the most in the next few years. If you think Recall is not much of a big deal well picture this. Recall on all politicians computers. Recall being used to black mail, and frame Politicians, Celebrities, influencers, and more. Recall being used to send Legacy media information faster then a influencer can upload it. Recall being used to get around laws. When I see people talking about Recall online, people are not looking at it from a Crime prospective. People are just looking at from a privacy prospective. I mean do you really think by clicking opt out of recall means they won't secretly take those snap shots? Come on. Let's live in reality. These are companies who not only want money, they want to control information, and the flow of it. Who ever controls information will control the how people will react, behave, and where they will go in life. None of these are really out their. You see it all the time in videos, News, even sometimes walking around a mall. People are nuts in 2024. Its not the 80s, or 90s anymore. People are not in good times anymore, and it shows. As long as Linux focuses on Privacy, security, and games it will take over. Every time I see someone making new projects for Linux, good games, and other things I will use my money to keep them going. It just comes down to supporting things that = Freedom.

[@piotrc966]

In my opinion Windows is better system for desktop than Linux. I use W10 and W11. W11 is quite good in contradiction to what you say about.

[@stupidburp]

W7 was the last good version of Windows

[@piotrc966]

@@stupidburp W7 was good, but W10 and W11 are good to.

[@stupidburp]

@@piotrc966 They are worse. UI is worse, intrusive features are worse, privacy is worse, core is almost the same. They are W7 with junk UI, bloat, spyware, and ads. W7 is a refinement of the best of W2000, XP, and Vista without unnecessary junk. The upgrade path for W7 is Linux.

[@piotrc966]

@@stupidburp " W2000, XP, and Vista without unnecessary junk. The upgrade path for W7 is Linux." Mate, I used Linux for more than 15 years (dualboot initial RH and SUSE, later debian, ubuntu and mint). I stopped when WSL2 came out. I've been using Windows since 3.11, so for me you're telling tales. You have some kind of obsession with the operating system. You fetishize it or something - I don't know. W10, W11 are good systems.

[@stupidburp]

@@piotrc966 I have used Windows since the beginning as well. Also MS-DOS, numerous Apple products, Solaris, Linux, and others. I don't have any obsession over any particular OS. I just know what I like.

[@sepg5084]

If Linux is a superior tech, and will make software companies more money if they cater to it, then they would have done it already. Corporations will not miss a chance to earn money.

[@raphaelbentegeac]

@@sepg5084 Very true, but I believe we need to take short vs long term gains into account. I would bet that Linux could save some costs long term but changing the infrastructure and retraining staff isn't worth it.

[@LTPottenger]

Collusion and lockdown and monopoly always make more money that is how corporations 'compete'

[@trajectoryunown]

Maybe not Linux, but every government and business should be operating with either an open source OS or some proprietary OS built on top of one. Our government doesn't even trust Intel consumer CPUs. God only knows why everyone's so comfortable with a closed-source OS and closed-source software.

[@lobotomy-victim]

and you're aware that literally every server is being ran on linux

[@judewestburner]

I think he's referring to gaming. Your server point adds credence to the argument. Where's there's money to be had the market follows, and Linux server is a cash cow

[@mkatakm]

I am leaving it soon permanenly so they can stuff that kernel upto their ...

[@peterpramshafer933]

I'm done with windows. I'm 100% Linux

[@Ghoxtfire]

just close the kernel on the company version and problem solved no one is leaving windows relax

[@Hype_Incarnate]

I just want to play 2xko on Linux.

[@marcusjohansson668]

I disagree for one reason: You paint it black or white. What windows should do, and hopefully will, is to close kernel access, and require devs to submit requests to microsoft so THEY can make sure that it wont break and then whitelist the kernel module and push the update. Kinda like what manifest v3 is doing for chromium. I don't like that approach, but it is kinda what they have to do unless they want to go open source so anyone can compile kernels left and right, and we all know windows won't do that. That way they can say to for example game devs: "this has nothing to do with security, we will not accept kernel level access for this software" and at the same time whitelist stuff that arguably SHOULD have kernel access, like antivirus/malware stuff for example..

[@hikkamorii]

In my opinion that approach for kernel is not wrong. For the most part kernel is not modular, you’re not intended to tinker with that after you set up your drivers, and if you want to do that, they can make it an optional toggle with big scary red letters.

[@marcusjohansson668]

@@hikkamorii If they just let it be a toggle, it pretty much would stay exactly the same as today, and clearly that is not a good idea. Microsoft SHOULD take harder control of the kernel, just as you say it should not be modular. But that also places a huge responsibility on ms, because if something DOES go wrong, like in the croudstrike example, it would then be 100% on ms. Maybe they don't want that so they rather prefer providing a sub secure operating system. I mean, people clearly accept microsofts behavior whatever they do and still keep using windows 11...

[@acegear]

thats what croudstrike did they paid request access m$ test its working no issues and never tested if croudstrike would send a broken update, m$ is too lazy to test after years of nothing happened they gone lazy and bluescreen day happened ,

[@marcusjohansson668]

@@acegear Then they did NOT do that, because if every single patch was tested at ms, the responsibility would lie on ms. What probably happened is (because I am just assuming here) microsoft cleared croudstrike complete kernel access. Croudstrike then pushed a patch that broke windows completely.

[@hikkamorii]

@@marcusjohansson668 no, it won’t be the same. That toggle would be meant for developers only, and asking users to run OS in unsafe, development mode is a pretty good deterrent, especially for corporate users.

[@thingsiplay]

I think Windows Vista was better than Windows 10 and 11. I know, because I had a laptop with Vista for years and used Windows 10 on PC for gaming. 11 doesn't look better than 10, so its bad. I rather would use Vista over these systems, if it were officially supported (if I had to use Windows).

[@hereticosjc]

I use Linux as my daily driver but branding Linux as the superior product is subjective. I still dont think it's there, I honestly think you have your blinkers on.

[@user-eq2fp6jw4g]

If you wanna look closed hardware OS etc look no further than apple. Apple is basically one of the worst in this field.

[@cameronbosch1213]

Yeah, Apple literally has locked down their hardware a lot. Heck, some Android phones can have alternative Android or other OS installations allowed. And then add in all of the anti right to repair stuff they've done.

[@user-eq2fp6jw4g]

@@cameronbosch1213 Pretty much yes. Apple is seen by the phone business mainly but the same locked chip issues stand on pc hardware also.

[@ItsCOMMANDer_]

@@cameronbosch1213 android lets you root, the bl can detect root and WARNS you, it doesnt block you, it just tells you it might be unsafe

[@sklungofunk]

i always saw windows as a dictatorship

[@MyAmazingUsername]

I am sure that anticheat vendors will just get some new Windows API or other assurance from Microsoft. There is no way that this will improve Linux anticheat availability. Linux anticheat is an oxymoron. It cannot exist on Linux. It is so easy to bypass there.

[@CouldBeMathijs]

Exactly, and if someone were to make one that wasn't, no Linux user would want to have to install a black box of proprietary software, so...