Windows or Mac for Recording Stop Lying to People

[@BarryJohns]

Get ready there’s a massive update to Windows 11 and around the corner where they’re going to delete many apps and no longer allow them. See the article down below. apple.news/Ar3S-hUh1QListAlwHfV6rA

[@piscesman54]

So this link takes me to an Apple News site and starts giving me the run around and trying to sell me a subscription, something which I absolutely hate, especially if it involves badmouthing the competition. Is there somewhere where I can get it straight from the horse's mouth?

[@Barkosaur]

Exactly why I set the "target version" in the policy editor to stay with the current version. TBH the whole copilot snapshots BS has me working towards moving my main audio/video stuff over to Mac, hopefully this buys enough time to get that project completed 😁

[@wallacebillingham9388]

Copilot Snapshots are optional and the entirety of Copilot and edge can be uninstalled

[@AndiPicker]

@@Barkosaur Funny thing but I've seen articles in the MAC world saying that Apple should do exactly this and remove the need for Rewind.

[@Barkosaur]

I'm sadly not surprised in the last 😞

[@mikevirtualteacher]

I was fortunate enough years ago to meet Hans Zimmer in LA and when asked what is the best DAW and Cpu platform he simply said “the one you know”

[@BarryJohns]

I absolutely agree with this

[@noelsharp]

I agree with what you pointed out here. I have Windows and Mac computers and have mostly used Windows up until 2022. The reason I switched to Mac is because for my particular studio setup I need to use multiple audio interfaces from different brands at the same time. The Mac built-in implementation of aggregate devices has been the easiest and most reliable method for me to do this. If Windows brings this feature into the OS without need to install 3rd party software, I may one day switch back.

[@jahsoul357]

This was something that I was going to mention in something I posted earlier. The only thing that Core Audio ever had over proper ASIO was device aggregation. I wish that is something that came with "native" ASIO. I would love to have a different interface handling input and another handling output.

[@J3unG]

You're just being lazy. You could have made it work and eventually Windoze will have the multi interface deal happening implemented in their OS instead of ASIO. Seriously...you just got lazy, bro.

[@jahsoul357]

@@J3unG I got lazy? Because I didn't want to use ASIO4All? LOL. And it looks like Windows is commitng to native ASIO in their ARM systems. ASIO was always the better choice because it was more efficient and had better latency (when vendors care about the drivers).

[@EidasMusic]

@@J3unG You gotta stop being lazy and implement aggregate devices for windows, lil bro. Shut up until I can plug in two different audio interfaces into my windows laptop and get output from both at the same time.

[@dtrelzmusic]

@@EidasMusicyou can do this on mac? I have both I just don't have the experience with mac like that because I have committed to hacking their hd yet because I can accept those mounted soldered hd moves that apples make, but is looking bright in department consider the hack is been put out on youtube still need a tech with experience with soldering, nevertheless

[@esongsore]

Left apple about 5 years ago. No regrets. Built an i9 windows desktop with the help of a friend. The ability to upgrade components as I have more resources is a BIG plus. Just preparing to ramp up the ram to 128 gig and add more SSDs. In terms of protools crashing, I haven't experienced any differences. I'v had Protools sessions crash on my windows desktop approximately twice since 2020.....and this was because I started loading plugins during playback. Similar to my mac days when it rarely happened. Windows is more cost effective and the difference between windows and mac (in my use case at least) is negligible. I haven't even added the opportunity to use PCIe audio interfaces such as the RME which I am currently eyeing.

[@samuelbolduc696]

You should definitely try a RME pci card. They are simply amazing for good low latency performance!!

[@frankboyer1490]

Earlier Windows 10 was great but all the copilot, recall, bloatware garbage has made the OS a no go for me. I'd rather change my setup and do Linux than deal with that nonsense.

[@esongsore]

@@samuelbolduc696 indeed. And 90% of my work is in midi. So lots of orchestral programming and large sample libraries. Do you use one of those cards yourself. Haven't found a lot of info from current users

[@pongmaster123]

for windows ONLY RME drivers, nothing else. you can hook up any converter to the rme if needed.

[@ChunkyLover69420]

Depends on your price point but at the lower end windows is arguably less cost effective now the new mac mini is released

[@toddstudio79]

I use both systems in my studio. The main system is a custom built Windows computer. The secondary is a Mac Mini. I also have a 3rd guitar focused rig, that runs off of a Windows laptop. All of them work great, and I use all 3 regularly.

[@kniferideaudio]

Yep, Mega tower for main DAW machine, Mac Mini running VST Synths, and a Laptop running a few extras like Drum samples etc. All work great and work great together. I Parsec all over to control any machine from any machine. It's great.

[@toddstudio79]

@kniferideaudio Hey! I could use some help with that. If you wouldn't mind. It's the one thing I haven't quite been able to lock down yet.

[@YEE941]

Mac has less headaches for audio. The way core audio just works is a blessing from god

[@barbiewozere]

Tried to install Cubase on my Mac recently and gave up after the issues just trying to install the software.

[@yasunakaikumi]

welp. Windows will now have a Core Audio like which is Native ASIO driver partnering with Yamaha, im sure a lot of people never heard the news about it

[@vadimmartynyuk]

it has its issues too, sometimes it freezes the Kontakt libraries loading

[@JoseGRendons]

completely agree

[@titovalasques]

@@vadimmartynyukI’ve never had that happen.

[@jahsoul357]

@15:13 perfectly explains @1:35. If I recall correctly, it was always around Apple's Core Audio and the way that Windows natively handled audio. More often than not, you could plug in your interface and you can get right to it with Macs while that wasn't the case with Windows. The thing is, when you compare Core Audio to ASIO, ASIO was more performant and had better latency. The problem was getting the vendor to actually do right by the drivers. This is why RME has the reputation that it does today. (although I still believe that the Motu PCIe-424 was the most stable setup I've ever used). The argument was always "Mac vs Windows" when it should have been "Core Audio vs crappy vendor ASIO drivers."

[@yasunakaikumi]

Guess what, if you haven't heard the news, with the ARM based Windows PC, Microsoft actually now implementing a native ASIO driver in windows, so no more relying on 3rd party interface implementation soon, right now no announcement for x86 windows but im sure it will come soon. and hopefully this pretty much solves the "but windows doesn't like Mac Core Audio"

[@jahsoul357]

@@yasunakaikumi Don't play with me....hahaha. I'm going to read on that now. That's awesome news...

[@LukeSchneiderEWI]

Well said !!

[@J3unG]

It's because Windoze HAS OPTIONS and Mac ONLY GIVES YOU ONE and the shit you use with it conforms to THAT ONE STANDARD. Mac was designed for non-techies and very young children who like to see pictures. You know this is true. This is the illusion of Mac...that it's somehow easier and less painful than Windoze. BTW...I live in SV and was Mac user for quarter century until AppleCorp fired Steve Jobs (who was a big penis while he was alive) and Johnny Scully came in and shit on company. It got better after Jobs came back but he turned out to be a much worse dyk than before he got fired. Apple completely bears his arrogance and narrow mindedness in design. Mac Sux.

[@joakimlindblom8256]

@@J3unG "I live in SV and was Mac user for quarter century until AppleCorp fired Steve Jobs" -- that's super odd, since Steve Jobs was "fired" from Apple in 1985, less than 2 years after the Mac was introduced -- something doesn't' compute. When exactly was it that you left the Mac behind?

[@TheFlowman]

I use both. I only use Apple laptops as the Windows side has no equal. However, for my desktop setup, I can’t justify the hardware lock in on the Mac platform. I like being able to upgrade components incrementally like storage, RAM, and even the CPU without having to buy an entire new system.

[@hereonmars]

This is what killed apple for me. I just have yet to make the jump to windows.

[@salut9658]

New Mac’s are so powerful and inexpensive for what it is ( mac mini particularly )

[@AnUnseenRuler]

Pro desktops are upgradable because they’re designed for pros. Spec out your mac well from the start and you won’t need to upgrade to at least 6-8 years.

[@mathewworkman1625]

There's going to be 100 soiled diapers on gearspace today.

[@damirvukelic8087]

I have an Rme UFX 3 interface with a Ferrofish Pulse converter. It was a no brainer which system to go for when I recently acquired a new computer for my studio - a windows one.

[@DaveDalton-fi9zt]

RME Raydat with a Ferrosfish Pulse. Rock solid here

[@Rummy73]

Same!

[@Iceleben]

RME Raydat with Apogee AD16x/DA16x since I don’t know how long - still working great on my newer WIN 11 System

[@wdiprod]

I have the same gear. Why not Mac? Not understanding?

[@damirvukelic8087]

@@wdiprod a good win desktop costs about the same as a mac laptop. With a desktop I am not limited to what was preinstalled in it. For example I just buy more Ram if I need it. Storage also. The current main disk of 2TB is sufficient, but soon enough I will need more. So I'll go for a 3TB for storage... and the motherboard also supports next gen cpu's, if I need that in future

[@timp410]

I switch to a MacBook Pro M1 Max back in 2021. However, I used a PC from the early 90's until 2021. I was a career IT professional for Intergraph, Boeing and then the Federal Government. I understood how to get around the issues of a PC back in the day. The most important thing when it came to PC's was picking the right components when building a PC. It was extremely important throughout the 90's and the early 2000's. The comfort I had with a PC over a Mac was knowing that I could repair any issue myself with replacement parts from a local PC store. I also could build a PC far more powerful than a Mac back then for half the cost.

[@BarryJohns]

Yep

[@jamiemcparland]

Been an IT admin managing thousands of windows, mac, linux, BSD systems for over 30 years. I figured i'd have some input on this, but nope. You totally nailed. it. Nice work!

[@gfromshankside]

Yeah... I remember when Windows became really viable. It was with Windows 7.

[@joeMW284]

No way. Windows 2000. When mainstream Windows switched to the NT Kernel. I spent my formative years recording on XP. Rock solid. In terms of performance, the early/mid 2000's Intel based PC's were absolutely destroying the best PPC machines Apple had to offer. Apple Had nothing on the Pentium 4 HT line. It wasn't until the G5 that they kind of, sort of caught up to Intel. When the Core2 machines came out it was game over for PPC.

[@UbuntuPersonNoMint]

Used to be a fan of windows7 back in the day before i moved to mac and now I just think windows 7 was mid and overhyped.

[@pw6002]

⁠@@UbuntuPersonNoMint So you’re a Ubuntu person or a MacOS one ? Linux people usually (rightfully) flee from MacO$$$…

[@Denkmaschinen]

@@joeMW284 Absolutely agree with that. I've used Windows XP for Audio with some great Soundcards back in the days and never had a single problem. One of this Machines, a Fujitsu Siemens Pentium 4 @3 GHz with GB RAM still works perfect today, and has all the Software i need installed. I've not touched it for over ten years, just switched it on and it worked absolutely perfect, like i've shut it down yesterday. Only change is the switch from a HD to a Samsung SSD which makes the machine even better.

[@DigitalChemistryBand]

Win 7... yup... my old system runs 7 and never crashes....

[@angermanagementstudios]

23 years with windows. Nothing but absolute nightmares. 7 years on Mac. Never an issue of any kind. There’s only one winner for me with audio work. Gaming on the other hand…

[@pw6002]

30 years of windows. 10 years as a pro composer. No real issues since winXP, so since around 2000. Real question: if it was a real nightmare for you , why did you stick 23 years with Windows ?

[@drfleka]

Can you elaborate and give a few examples? Because I never had any major issues with Windows in almost 20 years.

[@angermanagementstudios]

@@pw6002 I knew nothing about Macs and had never used one mate. Simple as that. I didn’t want the hassle of learning a whole new operating system.

[@angermanagementstudios]

@@drfleka Issues with updates, issues with software compatibility, issues with drivers, issues with blue screens, issues with hardware inside PC’s like the THREE fans that exploded on brand new Carilon machines that I had (granted that’s not actually windows fault). I could go on. Sufficed to say I’m no Mac fanboy but they simply work for me. Whereas windows didn’t. Fair play if you’re a windows user and it works for you, good on you and I hope it continues!

[@pw6002]

@@angermanagementstudios Ok, it’s legit !

[@wyro1741]

Not just for ability, but the fact that the hardware and software is built by the same company, and much of the system is specifically designed to handle media workflows, a Mac running a Mac OS is the optimal system for recording and mixing audio. Blending together software, CPU’s and sound cards yourself is a recipe for hiccups and incompatibility (PC). You *can*record and mix audio on either, but if you want to work out of the box and work trouble free there’s just one choice.

[@djgraish]

I started making music on a windows laptop, a Dell Inspiron in 2008. To connect audio interfaces etc I needed to install drivers and I had pops and clicks due to poor DPC latency. I spent hours and hours troubleshooting and eventually got it to go away. Since switching to mac in 2013 I have had 0 issues with drivers, and 0 wasted hours troubleshooting. If you want to hate on apple because "their laptops are so overpriced" feel free but the moment you waste a single hour troubleshooting, please ask yourself this questions: how much is my time worth?

[@pw6002]

You may have no issue with drivers but you’re never sure that the next version of MacOS will support your current hardware and software. And - until the introduction of the « M » chips - Mac computers were chronically underperforming in comparison to same price-tag PCs.

[@djgraish]

@@pw6002 I take your point about MacOS updates. I have the Maschine Mk1 and it doesn't work with my M1 Mac. It is a 2009 device though, time for an upgrade! As for old macs being slower that their (equal value) windows counterparts, you're right but that was then and this is now! Anyway, each to their own, I'm sure plenty of great albums have been recorded on windows machines!

[@pw6002]

@@djgraish « … that was then and this is now. » Sure, but you were mentioning 2008 and 2013, that’s why I made the performance comparison. And I duly specified that this comparison was relevant only until the introduction by Apple of the M-series of processors. :)

[@djgraish]

@@pw6002 You’re totally right! And when I bought my macbook pro in 2013 I probably could have got a windows machine with a slightly faster cpu or more RAM for the same money. But I wasn’t willing to take the risk that it would have a cheap wifi card with bad drivers like the Dell had. Apple makes sure their laptop and all of its components are working well together to ensure that you can use it for professional audio. Anyway, I’m happy on Mac and you’re happy on Windows and neither of us are switching so, lets agree to disagree and go and make some music!

[@Finians_Mancave]

My main PC is running Windows 10 that I built 9 years ago. Still going strong and does everything I need it to. My DAW is five years old, also home-built. I can build, do maintenance, upgrade components myself. If your Mac starts glitching, what options do you have? Basically one: Take it to the "Genius" store... but first prepare yourself for that $900 estimate "For a new main board" (Of course, that makes no sense, so now you're buying a new one)! Yeah, no troubleshooting issues on a Mac - because it's NOT ALLOWED without voiding the warranty. Sheesh.

[@DJSlaughter]

When it comes to buying a Windows computer for music production it really boils down to the manufacturer. Certain manufacturers you just have to stay away from just do your research. Now as far as Apple being too expensive. With the new Apple silicone chips, you can get a cheap MacBook Air and run a DAW without any hiccups. So you don't have to spend all that extra money to get the top of the line Mac computer.

[@CrazyDriverSwed]

If you are really into music production, then make sure to use your computer for that purpose only. Once you start installing games and other software your computer will become a mess. Especially if you're on Windows. I wish there was a way to create multiple profiles so that you could load only the software and drivers that you need for e.g. music production.

[@SamHocking]

Just create two users? Whatever you install for user one isn't there for user two. Or if you want complete divide dual boot or VM it.

[@Skijumptoes]

You can setup two boot partitions, it's easily done. They can both share the same main data.

[@kyleritter3074]

I'm a heavy gamer and heavy into audio, doing both almost daily. I have zero issues. Probably just a personal thing on your end.

[@blasegangbeats1865]

1:49 10 years using logic on Mac and upgrading I’ve had no issues but my friends with protools definitely

[@arjanhurkmans9190]

hi Barry, great video. I agree with everything except keeping your device up to date. This is fine if your device is NOT connected to the internet and you do not use it for email etc. But if it's your only system, that you use for standard browsing etc. you MUST update it. Overtime you will have a system with many vulnerabilities that can and will be exploited.

[@BenLawton-88]

If this is specific to Mac, you can update the security vulnerabilities without upgrading the OS.

[@andreievkalupniek5717]

There is one other issue with new MacOs versions- if you buy a new Mac, it will come with the latest and it will not be downgradable, for instance, right now if you get a Mac with M4 Pro it is coming with Sequoia. So you might need to wait a little for plugins to catch up or just deal with it…

[@AndiPicker]

I'm amazed that this hasn't been shouted down by hordes telling us that Linux is the ONLY answer and that they've been recording digital audio flawlessly since 1946 without a single dropout!! Damn it!!

[@JC-fj7oo]

Actually linux was terrible for audio ever time I've tried it. It just doesn't work very well with most drivers and it's a massive headache getting anything to work on it. Linux is GREAT for other things though.

[@nelejanbbi4616]

​@@JC-fj7oo interesting. can i ask what devices you tried and how long ago?

[@Chu_the_Master]

@@JC-fj7oo My gosh...

[@nelejanbbi4616]

@@infojunkie4989 totally agree. that's the reason i stick to only native plugins, can make a full mix with only those. some i do miss are melodyne, and a few mastering tools i don't already own, so i just consider them out of reach.

[@thesullivanstreetproject]

@@JC-fj7ooI love the idea of audio on Linux, but you’re right; it’s just bad. When Linux audio works as dependably as Mac audio does and has an integrated DAW with as many features as Logic does, and when it doesn’t require loading a bunch of different programs with horribly ugly interfaces and doing signal routing yourself (looking at you, Ardour), I’ll seriously consider leaving Mac, but the fact is that Linux just can’t compete at the moment. I want the OS to get out of my way so I can just create rather than having to manually tune everything and having so few options.

[@andremiller1566]

Apple and Mac are like Avid and Pro Tools. That history of smugness and closed off systems has permanently turned me off. PC for life.

[@joehermanartist]

I dig

[@tonyvalenti6614]

Great video and yes, back in the day Windows PC’s were much more known a business machines and numbers crunchers, while Mac’s were way better at Graphic application. All of that is pretty much gone and you can do just about everything in either platform. It’s pretty much UI preferences these days and what you’re more familiar with. My question to you is my son wants to start to learn how to make music with a small Akai USB keyboard and sampling pads. He’s looking at a small Fucusrite interface and will likely try Garage Band software. Again, he’s definitely a newbie beginner. Given the equipment mentioned, what specs would you say are required for a DAW Mac and Windows PC? Thanks again for an honest point of view! 👍🏻

[@rogerbueno1]

go Mac all the way. And by all the way I mean used mac. Any used mac with 16 gb of RAM will suffice. even a 2009 mac pro that are cheap now(under $200 would be great) But what the hell do i know, I'm 53 and have been a professional musician and an IT professional for 30+ years in Los Angeles and Miami. 😉

[@tonyvalenti6614]

@ Outstanding! Thank you! I know he has a 2012 Mac Air. Not sure how much RAM it has though. Will definitely check it out! Appreciate the feedback! 👍🏻

[@inwedavid6919]

I have switch to PC since CUDA is no longer available to the mac, Nvidia CUDA is used in a number of software that really smash the AMD and Apple graphic card for calculation. The second point is when you are on a budget you can upgrade your RAM, SSD and graphic card witch is no longer possible on the Mac. Too bad, so you have to buy a High end model from the start and if it is too weak as models evolve (like for AI) you need to buy another one.

[@davidraymond8994]

I have had both for years and never had an Apple Mac OS X upgrade brick my computer. I have had issues upgrading from Windows 10 to Windows 11 but even then I never bricked a Windows machine. So you would need to really try hard to brick either one. My oldest Mac is over 9 years old snd it just started having issues. I have an 11 year old Dell running Windows and it is still running fine. So both are good quality.

[@straighttalk2069]

A couple of years ago, I bought a Windows 11 laptop, with an I7, 12 core CPU, 16gb ram and it struggles to run the newer CPU hungry plugins even one instance. Yesterday I bought the M4 Mac Mini, base model 10 core CPU and 16gb ram. I tested it with five instances of the same CPU hungry plugins and it didn't even break a sweat, less than 10% CPU usage. The Mac Mini cost me almost three times less, than the OLED Windows 11 Laptop.

[@kcctradio5751]

I've been a windows user since 1990. I stay with it because I know that platform. When I was learning Pro Tools, I was using a laptop and a subscription for Pro Tools. This computer was a multi use computer and wasn't really up to running Pro Tools. My big problem with this was that everytime windows would do an update, it screwed up the settings for running Pro Tools. After my learning period I knew I would continue using Pro Tools, so I bought a desktop computer fast enough with enough ram to comfortably run Pro Tools AND purchased the Pro Tools software. This computer IS NOT hooked into the internet, it has no connection to the outside world. All it does is run Pro Tools in the studio. When I need to trasfer files it's done with an external hard drive and a separate computer. In 9 years I've never had any problems. For you windows users, we all know how much fun all those updates are. I have three other systems that are online, my Pro Tools rig will stay isolated from corruption.

[@VeitLehmann]

Regarding pricing: I mostly agree. If you build a PC comparable to any baseline Mac, it's probably going to be at least as expensive. Especially when you are looking for similar build quality/feel. But as soon as you want lots of internal storage and/or memory, the Mac is going to be more expensive again. Another pricing-related thing: Logic is much cheaper compared to Windows options, especially if you include the included plugins. And you can easily get lots of things done with GarageBand already. Regarding breaking systems with OS upgrades: I agree again. I quickly learned that you shouldn't install a n.0.0 OS upgrade on day one. I usually wait for version n.1.0.

[@Bkoded]

The point about not updating till you really need to is so true, i was on sierra up until like 2021

[@tonyfreeman1577]

Totally agree. Sound cards or convertors are mostly external now anyway. And what you plug into the usb or thunderbolt etc is one of the main quality impacting items.

[@peters7949]

I use a Mac for audio work with windows running under Parallels for some audio software. One issue I had when upgrading hardware to a 2014 Mac Mini was caused by the Fusion Drive, it could not cope with recording to disk. The audio was always covered in glitches. Splitting the Fusion into separate SSD & Hard drives fixed it. I suspect it was due to the way the Mac was managing moving data between the drives in order to “maximise drive speed”, but could not do this with a continuous audio data stream. That said, once I split the drive, and later replaced them with SSDs, never looked back & things have been fine. Also the organisation I worked for, used many Mac Books for recording multichannel live music for broadcast. We needed more & bought some of the same model Mac Books which appeared to work fine with the MADI interfaces, until one tried to use all 64ch & the system could not cope. We opened one up & found a different mother board had been used that had a FireWire to USB adapter, rather than the motherboard FireWire port on the first batch, yet Apple claimed they were the same model with the same spec.

[@lachlanmacquarrie3129]

At last - a sensible discussion of the subject. I have used both OSs, I am currently on Windows as I had a bad experience with a mac laptop which most definitely did not hold its value. I discovered that I valued the ability to fix the bloody thing when it broke! Having said that I have found a few music tech things that don't work well, or in some cases at all, on Windows, eg bluetooth MIDI, AVB and thunderbolt backwards compatibility.

[@MartinLonek-h8n]

Great video Barry ! Funny reading some of the comments. I went the third way. I have built my hackintosh at the time when Apple Silicon was not out yet for Pro Tools. It is i9-9900k, 32 GB RAM (64 GB MAX) , 1 TB SSD + 2TB SSD, Thunderbolt, many expansion possibilities. I have upgraded the graphics card to Radeon RX 6800 year ago. The Box works of absolute perfection using both OSes. I use MAC OS with Pro Tools simply because the shortcuts are more straightforward on a mac for me. For all the other work and gaming, I use Windows 10, which works great. Yes, if you look benchmarks too much, new CPUs are more powerful, but the machine can do 140 tracks, each with two plugins active. Much more than I need for film & TV post.

[@TheCraigAnderton]

Excellent summary that aligns with my experience as a bi-platform guy for 30 years.

[@the_albacr0ss]

Dual user. Pros and cons to both Mac and Windows. Both with do the job or fail horribly depending on hardware and software configuration. I personally have swung back to Mac OS for audio as I feel the software looks/feels better on a visual and usability level. Take a look at the way pro tools looks on PC vs Mac and you'll have an idea of where I'm coming from. Also, the Apple Silicon computers have so much bang for your buck if you are doing primarily audio. The M1 16gb Mac mini I have chugs right along side the same large sessions my Ryzen 9 5900x handles. In the word of Alan Douches: pick a format and get to work.

[@bergsofcanada2757]

I have owned seven digital audio workstation computers, all were windows. Windows XP all the way up to Windows 10. I had almost no problems ever. I used firewire and USB audio devices. I used Moto devices with their proprietary audio card. I used rme PCI cards. Focusrite Mackie rme audio devices. I have had almost no problems ever.

[@piscesman54]

I agree with everything you said, except the price tag. Where I live (not in the US or Europe), you will definitely pay substantially more for a Mac vs a comparable Windows computer.

[@jubinroy4987]

Currently windows limitation is with the hardware used to build the pc. It’s so smooth. For me why Mac. Logic, MainStage plus templates will save lot more money than spending big money on kontakt libraries. For around 120 I can get a template from Sunday keys and be set with a affordable midi keyboard

[@einjarjar]

Few years ago (2022 if I remember right) my two friends did an experiment about this. They use the same studio space (different rooms) and the other does his stuff with Mac and the other with Windows. Thay had to upgrade their computer around the same time and budget, so they started to compare their system performance. They did run the experiment for a full year and logged anything negative happening that time. Same price tag, same DAW, same hours and even some same projects. In the end the results were pretty much the same. The Mac did crash one time more than the Windows system, but that was pretty much the only 'big' difference. The both systems worked the same and had even amount of problems, etc.

[@williamburkholder769]

EXCELLENT commentary, Barry! I have used both platforms, too, and agree wholeheartedly with your points here. Use the right tool for the job, and don't worry about it. There has never been more or better hardware available.

[@rlwhite68]

Good Job Sir I hope your channel keeps you around. I like your style dude.

[@WorshipWisdom7]

I grew up on Windows so I’m way more comfortable using that OS. It runs dependably for me. I did run into an issue when I tried to use an interface that ran on Thunderbolt… That was an absolute nightmare and I ended up getting rid of the interface. Settled on an RME which is rock solid.

[@Youtuber-ku4nk]

Regarding people thinking Mac are very expensive I think is from the Intel iMac days. Pc users never calculated the worth of the fantastic 27” monitor that came with it. They were just used to cheap gaming monitors before IPS panels became more widely spread in the pc community.

[@mvh2275]

Mac Studio M2 Max and Reaper. Perfect combo ;-) My thoughts - Cheers

[@nelauren]

I found this out the hard way this week . Updated my PC last week and now I can’t use any midi controller. Dell doesn’t know what’s wrong me neither does Microsoft. Tried different controllers, cables, and ports. Nothing. Meanwhile the Mac Mini has zero problems.

[@anastasiosefthymiou819]

Thank you so much for making this so clear. I'm an old fossil who's just retired and want to get back into music making/production and this video really eased my mind on this whole debate.

[@denismichelhache3525]

Am I the only one surprised that the cost of a Mac is comparable to PC? For example, simply upgrading storage or RAM on Apple products is very expensive. On the other hand, the resale value might be the biggest asset in favor of Apple. Great video btw.

[@BarryJohns]

Please keep in mind I was talking historically, is the change going to the new architecture, is a rip off by Apple all the way they’re charging for memory expansion. And that is unfortunate. However people kinda need to understand, the way Apple Silicon, now handles memory, across the CPU, and even involves a GPU, They have to be fully integrated. But I agree it is a pain in the butt, an apple being apple, grossly overcharging for memory upgrades.

[@PetrolMediaInc]

I spent years using a Windows machine for recording, and I had tons of problems with it. When it worked it work it was amazing, When I was having issues it was now time to dive into Google. I switched to Mack and had fewer problems, so that’s where I am now. However, I retained a Windows laptop for certain software, so they can still be in both realms. I don’t think it was an issue specifically with the operating system, more so, with my set up at the time, and not realizing what I need to keep locked in for it to work without any issues. With my Mac, I’ve gotten into the habit of just not updating for the long as possible, or until every single software on my machine is completely compatible

[@ProgressiveSoundAudio]

Great thoughts and really well presented. I've used Mac and PC and I prefer PC as I don't like Mac OS, but that's the only reason, both are great for Audio work, it just boils down to preference. I will say though that Macs can be more expensive if you're a tinker who likes to build their own PC's, but that's not for everyone and not comparable to someone buying an off the shelf PC. If you just want plug and play then the prices are pretty much the same. That's based on the UK market though and Desktop versions of PC and Mac.

[@robflores5172]

I'm going Macbook Pro m4 Max. I've been on windows for SO long an I've had nothing but headaches and perpetual troubleshooting. Right now I have a Dell XPS 17 which was about 5K after upgrades and it's already experiencing slow down and randomly getting blue screens on restarts. Has always been my experience as a PC user whether I've built it or not.

[@SamHocking]

Must have been a fault at hardware level surely, last few years it's been almost impossible to bluescreen mine unless i'm doing something crazy like slotting in hardware to the motherboard live or something.

[@user-vf9pm8sb1l]

window is more reliable and comfortable for me. i use window from many years , win me , win xp sp1 and now win 11.

[@DawahProject]

Hello sir! Is there any methods for run UAD Apollo Twin Duo USB (Windows version) on MacOS? Thank you and have a great day.

[@victorblakey4260]

Like you, I use both windows and Mac machines for different purposes The main reason I use a Mac in my studio is “aggregate devices” Being able to connect more than one interface at a time, for me, is game over

[@shawn2571]

The core audio driver seems more stable for audio recording, however the shelf life of an Apple computer is around 2-3 years while PC can be 10 years or more. Open core legacy patcher is helping the apples lasting a little longer now though

[@zolaarczakle]

If you're broke and not yet too much used to a proprietary software, there's a lot of options for you on a Linux system like Ardour or Rosegarden for example. Most audio hardware is compatible.

[@colognialist1964]

im a hybrid user for many years... But for music production im using always Mac. More stable. Better audio environment .... Sure. Music Production works well on windows OS too. But im using windows only for gaming, Software-Developing, office and so on... Keep in mind you pay this stable with money...nothing else.

[@Jmorris4000]

I use both, works for me.

[@IainNitro]

Hello Barry: Thank you for doing this video. I personally just went back to Mac and dollar for dollar, my system was a great value. It is an M4 Mini with 32gb RAM and 512gb SSD. I think it cost almost $1000 from a comparable PC (Windows) and performance wise...great. The new M4 does potentially have internal storage upgradability.

[@eduardocolon6333]

I've been working in Logic for the last 15 years. No issues whatsoever. That's pretty much the reason why I'm on Mac OS. I know the software and it works great in any one of my devices. I recently upgraded to a new MacBook Pro because my previous one was 12 years old. She's still working, although hotter than it used to. Use what you know, and know its limitations. The rest is marketing.

[@gavindaviesmusic]

Love Cubase and have used windows and mac for 30 odd years, I am also a business IT Consultant. I was pushed by a snobbish pro musician to buy 6k worth of Mac gear and absolutely hated it back in 2017 I managed to put together a higher spec PC for 3k so I disagree with you about pricing but agree that the systems are both fine. The biggest problems are snobbish musicians and artists that say you Must use a Mac to be thought of as professional. We moved a 20 strong design department from Mac to PC at their request and saved them thousands. Surprisingly they all loved the change and said that they were more productive using windows. They all wanted to go duel screen and Mac options at that point of time were extremely expensive.

[@jaspersquire5931]

I’ve been using Windows for audio since 2018 on a laptop with an i 7 processor. The new Mac mini M4 looks like it’s a bit of gamechanger in terms of performance for the money… my next hardware upgrade will probably be to Mac mini running an M4 or perhaps M4 pro

[@risingphoenix1484]

If you have been doing this for 20+ years you know Macs have been better for music…… today however it doesn’t matter. That being said companies still put more emphasis on Mac drivers because it’s easier to program hence making plugins and driver more stable.

[@senacht]

I straddle Windows, MacOS, and Linux operating systems. Been doing this for years and I just run whichever environment works best for the specific task I’m looking to accomplish. Why lock yourself into one when you can learn a second or third and have the best of all worlds.

[@AdamBuker]

I'm still using my Late 2005 PowerMac G5 for my music and audio work in Logic Pro 8. It does everything I need it to do without fuss and I know that setup inside and out. I'll only upgrade when the machine finally croaks.

[@MicRoussos]

There is a big debate out there! Since 1998 I’m using macs! I spend so much money! The last 3 years i build an audio pc from scan in the UK and they optimized the computer for Nuendo and Pro tools! I never had any problem!! If i build the same in mac, i would pay 4 times the price! For what?

[@busywl69]

Windows 7 and 10 have been a dream for me. I might have tried mac but I like the freedom with a windows desktop. Can upgrade and add components internally. Add more RAM, storage etc. The upgrade pricing on apple ram and storage is grand larceny and I'm surprised apple users put up with it. Plus I've known people with macs that they couldn't afford to get fixed, guess they didn't have APpplecare+. The M chips are incredibly impressive, but being tethered to hardware you can't touch, upgrade or repair, its a nope for me. When they let you have control over your hardware I might take a dive.

[@soakedp90s]

Thank you Barry for this. As a long time PC and MAC user I appreciate your honest opinions as I generally prefer to build my own PC as I have for 20 plus years. The fact is...computer power whether it be PC or MAC is going to do excellent in regards to digital recording as long as the interface suffices per the OS requirements. I think the real argument here is whether or not the OS supports what you do as as individual, which is why I haven't upgraded to WIN11. AS a long time PC user, I'd choose MAC if I didn't have any BUILD knowledge regarding PC. It's just an easier transition and less of a hassle for someone more artistic and less tech minded.

[@MildredStain]

The only time Ive bricked a box of either platform was due to a complicated software application update, not an OS update; hardware failures not withstanding. I’ve been using both Mac and Windows (dos) PCs side by side since the early 90s. I do OS updates between projects or contracts or as required for security requirements. Software updates are done depending on vendor reliance and feature needs. Otherwise I wait for a similar break in work. But I’m usually up to date on Mac updates way more than Windows. Everything else you said I 100% agree with. I think in numbers I’m about even in hardware failures per platform. But Mac has been more varying on what has failed; motherboard, HDD, monitor, video card. Windows PCs it’s mostly been HDDs but so far never a video card or motherboard. Just HDDs, Mouse, keyboard monitors. 🙏🏻

[@jamesford5986]

"I don't care" should be used more to reduce this unnecessary crap of Windows or Mac! Using what works for you is usually more important. Thanks for saying it.

[@John-zm3gw]

I'm on a custom Windows machine but Mac's core audio is undeniably better, and I recommend Mac for anyone considering a UAD Thunderbolt interface -- the add-in thunderbolt cards for mobos are hit and miss.

[@BarryJohns]

Thousand percent agree on universal audio. I would never trust a Windows computer for universal audio, and that has nothing to do with Windows, that’s 1000% universal audio issue.

[@soundproductionandadvice]

I lost an album deal due to a Windows PC back in the 90s. Corrupted files locally and on backup drives. Heated calls with A and R. Horrible time. Switched to a Mac and never looked back.

[@sejtaridiss]

I don't want to be "that guy", but as someone who researched and bought a computer for composition a year ago, I must disagree about the cost. My Ryzen 9/192GB RAM/6TB NVME PC cost literally 1/3 of what equivalent Mac Studio would cost. And my PC is built using decent parts. I get that CPU-wise prices may be similar, but when maxing out, Apple pricing is ridicolous. But i totally get people buying basic spec Macs, they're great and very attractively priced.

[@wdiprod]

When apple got rid of 32 bit support venders were like a year behind. That was really tough for a couple iterations of the os.

[@BarryJohns]

Yes, but most of us waited so it was a non issue.

[@SomebodyPickaName]

There's one thing that a Mac can do that a Windows machine can't, and it's kind of important in some situations: Accessing hardware from multiple programs at once. In Windows, it's going to get taken over by whatever comes first. The second program will be told that the device is in use or is unavailable. Example: You're trying to program your MIDI Fighter Twister while you have Cubase open. On a Mac, this is possible. On Windows, it's not. So with Windows, you have to program it with the utility, close the utility, then open the DAW, test it, close the DAW, open the utility to make a change, close the utility, open the DAW again, wash rinse repeat. Or, open both at once on a Mac and just toggle back and forth. Even with that said, I still use it on my Windows machine. It's just more annoying is all.

[@jahsoul357]

You shouldn't have to do with with multi-client ASIO. "MC" ASIO would just provide access to all I/O and you can pick or choose within the system.

[@SamHocking]

Even without MC ASIO, why couldn't multiple programs access hardware at once on Windows? I'm typing this on windows with youtube audio going out of my apogee device via WASAPI and the DAW is connected to the same apogee device via ASIO. Discord bings notifications are coming through too and any other software that has an audio device selector could output to any of those if I want it to?

[@jahsoul357]

@@SamHocking Most should allow you to use Windows audio and ASIO but the one thing that sucks is nobody can't get windows audio drivers to work with Thunderbolt. My MOTU PCIe system could do the exact same thing.

[@craigjoseph9374]

2002 to 2004, using Pinnacle editing software (PC), render time, 1 hour video, over 24 hours. This was causing issues for my business. In 2005, I switched to Mac, found out about FCP, same hour video, render time, 40 minutes. Yeah, there was a time for a long time, when PC's were not an option for running a video production business.

[@bergsofcanada2757]

I have also worked at a music store for 27 years. I always told everybody to buy the platform you want to use. I have seen plenty of people who have had their computer turned into a brick. But it is true that Mac is less forgiving of legacy devices.

[@fakshen1973]

I've been in digital audio for 30 years. I spent most of my time on a Mac. In the beginning, Mac was absolutely awesome. But starting around 2010, Mac just fell apart as far as needing paid updates for your plug-ins and DAW to function after OS updates. I've watched Mac users struggle with video plug-ins as well when working with Premiere. I've seen the alerts to NOT UPDATE to the latest Mac OS because the software companies had not written a patch for it yet. I have software and plug-ins that are 15 years old that still work without an issue. I have VST2 plug-ins that still work without an issue (on a home machine running Ableton). I've worked on a PC built for audio running Pro Tools for the last ten years and zero problems. By work, I mean I get paid by CLIENTS to work on their projects on my machine. Very rarely have I had a crash. If it's once a year, I'm being generous towards crashing. I replaced a Mac with a PC and it's been great. Macs WILL leave you hurting on OS updates. Oh.. and look up the dreaded T2 chip issues on Mac. People were having to run out and buy brand new audio interfaces after buying a new computer.

[@BarryJohns]

It’s interesting over both our 30 year careers that we’ve had completely different experiences. I would love to dig in deep to a deeper conversation about some of the issues more in complex detail at some point.

[@wilkinsonmd1959]

It’s a cat and mouse game - update OS then watch plugins try to catch up or go back to previous OS until they catch up. Or update plug-in but oh yeah you need to update the OS to use the plugin ( I had this with Autotune this week)

[@kniferideaudio]

One caveat is I would say if you are building a PC do a lot of research if you are using Thunderbolt. Some Mother Boards are better than others at implementing TB and AMD processors especially have issues with it. Other than that... PC is great for audio, video and 3d Production machines.

[@musictechdude8]

I really appreciate content like this, however I fail to understand how you can argue macs aren't more expensive. Unless i missed some context you mentioned. The only instance I can think of to back that up is if you want a mac mini and are fine with the base model and relying on external storage beyond that 256gb. I think you would have a hard time building a comparable windows pc that could match that performance (including the m4s graphics capabilities). That being said once you start getting into the macbook air and macbook pro---again unless you are fine with base models and can get them on sale, the cost just gets astronomical for macs.

[@BarryJohns]

OK, let’s have some fun with it, I’ve actually made the same exact comment probably at least 50 times in this thread, and not one single person is taking me up on it yet. And I would do it just for fun and interesting project for both of us to go through. Spec out a PC, give me details of the specs, and then tell me the Mack you want to compare it to, and a similar price range. Let’s take a look at it objectively. You can go to my main KZbin channel and find my email. I’m up for it if you are.

[@musictechdude8]

@ thanks for the response Barry. I’m up for this but before I do this I just want to make sure I understand bc what I intend to do is use cpu and gpu benchmark compare sites to find a laptop to compare to a MacBook with the same storage and ram specs, and then do the same for a desktop. I’m confident in both scenarios I can beat the mac my $400-500. Technically it gets to be even more of a margin if you are someone willing to buy base storage and ram on windows and upgrade it yourself, but to compare apples to apples (pun intended) I’ll stick with base ram and storage on the products we compare, no after purchase upgrades. But if you are limiting me to base model Mac mini vs a windows computer that comes with 256gb (if I can even find a windows pc with that little storage) and 16gb ram, I’d probably concede that for that specific spec and price point, mac probably wins. Anyway let me know if my understanding is correct and I’ll proceed with both desktop and laptop comparisons. Dells G16 with a mechanical keyboard is on sale right now for $1299 and that has 1TB SSD and 32GB Ram and a 4070rtx. That might beat the MacBook Pro by over $1000

[@FLOSPhotographer]

First gen Mac = Motorola 68000 CPU. Second Gen = Power PC. Third Gen = Intel. Fourth Gen = Apple Silicon. First Gen = NuBus, Apple Desktop Bus. Second Gen = PCI, USB, ADB. Third Gen = PCI-X and PCI-E, USB, Firewire. Fourth Gen = USB, Thunderbolt. There have absolutely been more than two transitions to completely new chipsets...and for each there is more to the transition than just a Rosetta or translation layer to deal with. If your Intel Mac dies (like mine did) and you are forced to upgrade to Apple Silicon (because you know they will eventually drop support for Intel), you would be out of luck if your interface was PCI-e in a TB chassis (like mine was)...because it was not supported. Likewise, you cannot run NuBus, PCI, PCI-x cards in any new Mac...so while Windows users could still build a PC with PCI slots if they needed to....no such possibility for Mac. And forget about trying to get a Firewire device to function on Apple Silicon. I understand your argument, but there are absolutely use cases in pro audio that have screwed Mac users and forced hardware upgrades just to maintain current functionality. On the other side, one of the things that I personally find indespensable is the fact that new Macs run silent. I have no fans in my studio. I've never heard the fan come on in my M1 Mac. Same for the Intel Mac Mini that it replaced. Factor in the cost of building or buying a completely fanless PC and you are going to make the price jump much higher and possibly the performance suffer. Finally, EVERY audio interface on a Mac is multi-client...meaning...you can watch a YT vid or listen to Spotify AND have your DAW open and play along to learn arrangements or match synth patches, etc. Not every interface out has multi-client ASIO drivers...so the process is not as easy on PC. For some of us this is a huge part of our workflow. You are correct that what is important to ME...may not mean a hill of beans to someone else and their workflow.

[@zeppo20]

I work on both. Apple OS has an advantage over windows. The core audio aggregate is killer. Windows depends on ASIO driver, witch is a Steinberg driver not Microsoft.

[@TheCatGoesRawrMusik]

Hi! Genuinly curious about this as I have not found any remotely satisfying way to do this far. I work on windows and the only thing that still is bugging me and makes me consider moving to mac is the ability to set up an agregate device... do you know of any way to do this on a Windows system?

[@Blewis-Diarrheo]

Is Barry short for Barold? Also, having trouble finding a Thunderboat

[@nymbusDeveloper86]

I use both systems for daily use and for audio recording/editing. I’ve never understood fanboys of either camp. I totally agree with you - both OSs are good enough. I would say that there are audio software solutions even for Linux users. We are not in the 90s anymore. All major OSs are competent nowadays. It’s a skill issue at the end of the day.

[@rbingraham]

I've used windows for audio since the mid 90s. Never used a Mac except for some very special software that are only on the Mac. You don't need a custom Windows PC to do audio. I use off the shelf Lenovo Think Stations for audio. They work just fine.

[@hjvarfjell]

Interesting to hear your experience with Windows 11 for DAW use. I've been holding on to Windows 10 so far, even considering using 0patch to keep it alive when MS drops support next fall. So in your experience I shouldn't worry, and just do a system backup and let MS run the upgrade? Well, at least when they've finally ironed out the most serious bugs in 24H2.

[@laurynasgaidys7839]

Totally agree except maybe about the prices but in general just don't upgrade - leave it alone. I found that unless you are mission critical live broadcaster for the studio work both are fantastic and stable operating systems. For windows towers I always recommend pcie sound cards instead of usb.

[@ThrobbingChristl]

I never found it that easy to put together a well rounded Windows Machine. There's so much variables to take into account. Bus/Ram/CPU clock speeds, RAM/Bus/CPU voltages..evaluation of different error/failure rates at all those values..everything getting very complex regarding all the possible combinations. The many different components from the many different manufacturers, while (by nature) lacking a reliable & tested documentation of all hose combinations, is turning this matter into either a game, or a hellish matter of research & testing. In the PC world, i tend to buy only the (at least somehow verified) series of standardized business models.

[@nowherebrain]

no one says updates brick your system..the issue with mac is simplicity and price by design...if you destroy a component on a win machine, it is cheaper to buy and you can resplace it yourself with next to zero hassles.....this does not ring true of any apple product.... THIS is the issue, on top of that it is a far more walled off garden of an eco system.... I don't use either, in the end, they both kinda have corporate suckiness...the whole reason I use linux...it's not the brush but the painter.

[@AnUnseenRuler]

I use both Windows and Mac and from my experience I spend more time dicking around with Windows to keep it going. Core Audio and MIDI on a Mac dispenses with a lot of issues you get on Windows. Additionally the Windows UI still gets in the way even after all these years (I still have to press ctl alt delete to get the login screen? Really) and it is annoying to creative flow. I also sold my 2012 Mac Mini in 2021 for over half of what I paid for it.

[@Denkmaschinen]

There are still a lot of great Audio Consoles working in Studio and Radiostation with very old CPU's like PIII @500 MHz with Windows NT4, SP6! Since they were really expensive to buy, they are still maintained and do their job everyday.

[@BarryJohns]

If they’re doing that, they’re using some type of DSP like HD X, or TDM.

[@jimmyk9998]

Most people think of the interface as the thing you plug mics and instruments into and plug the other end into the computer and record. It’s true. The software is also something you interface with choose the one that works best for you for and go make music. It’s that simple Jimmy K.

[@WillCate]

While I agree that the two platforms have (pretty much) achieved parity, I don't think it took Windows quite that long to get good. I'm a retired Radio guy, and when playback automation systems became PC-based in the 90s, the big players in that business who made the software used only wintel PCs, sometimes using only MS-DOS or a stripped-down no-desktop version of Windows NT. Apple made some early inroads in the TV business, but not radio, really not at all. Also, the DAW product currently known as Adobe Audition began life as "Cool Edit Pro" for Windows only, which circa 2000 was better than any comparable Mac software, IMHO.

[@davidpatrick1813]

I really enjoyed this ... thank you. I am a wanna be type of novice but enjoy learning from experienced folks. Keep tuned.. pat

[@rusj5273]

When I started Music Production I wanted so hard to make my own Windows Computer and at the time I had the money to do so. I tested the waters on Windows and got so frustrated with the fact that everything has to be line up perfectly and that's when the frustration started. So I got a Mac and never had a problem that I couldn't fix on my own. Both are Great Operating Systems but I prefer Mac workflow better.

[@mortonstromgal]

Driver compatibility is the real issue, I had a rack zoom mixer/splitter that in OSX everything works, Windows I'm missing mix down channels, Linux only has the mix down channels. This was only 3-4 years ago. I could go write my own drivers but OSX it just worked out of the box.

[@BattleAngelSound]

I use both, all life with PC and just recently also Mac. PC for work and Mac for hobby stuff. Both run Cubase. After decades of building my own PC I simply got tired after doing the last AMD build. I'm too old for that s*** ;) I bought basic Mac Mini and it runs my "99% hardware only" like a charm. My PC has no chance to run at 3ms buffer size, even that it's more powerful. But PC is not for live recordings. Those new Mx processors took me by surprise. Those are much better than Intel/AMD to run sessions with a very small buffer sizes. I'll continue to use PC's at work because I need lots of RAM for this but for my hobby where RAM is marginal, I'll stay with Mac Mini's. Also I can jus add more audio interfaces if I'll run out of audio inputs which is not the case on PC :)

[@blueslsd]

Linux for me and Mixbus Pro 10, rock solid so far.

[@normundsx8991]

Amen!

[@phenixnunlee372]

In mixed my album on mixbus 8 worked great

[@dmille6]

i use it all, windows, linux, mac.. i spend 60-70% of my day maintaining and keeping windows and linux machines running... i go home to a mac laptop (4 yrs old) and a mac desktop (3 yrs old).. in the 15 yrs I've had macs at the house.. not one hardware issue.. not one software issue.. i reboot when there is an update.. i buy a new one every 4-5 yrs.. seamless.. whatever extra cost there is.. its worth it.. i know every time I sit down with it.. its going to run.. run well.. and I can do what I need to do.