Winds of Winter UPDATE - George RR Martin's Cryptic message

#targaryen #houseofthedragon #gameofthrones
This is a clip from our Bend the Knee A Song of Ice and Fire podcast for full episodes check out www.bendthekneepodcast.com
Follow Ser Matt & Ser Jimmy
@SuperGainsBros @The Fantasy Nuttwork
Share your thoughts on Facebook! Join the discussion: / bendthekneep.. .
_____________________________________________________________
If you'd like to support the show, gain access to additional WESTEROS content, or LISTEN LIVE then hit us up at Patreon: / bendtheknee​​. .
Patreon exclusive podcast series include:
The Extended Edition - Ser Matt and Ser Jimmy extend the chapter and make additional connections
The Black Council - A discussion about various historical events in Westeros!
Green Dreams - Theories and speculation!
EMAIL: [e-mail]

[@jacobyoung9981]

Don’t do that. Don’t give me hope.

[@Gino_5550]

Was about to comment the same thing😂

[@chasjetty8729]

He finished years ago and burned the only copy. Abandoned hope all ye who enter here.

[@Wolltazar]

Don’t take the hope. It may mean nothing as well as it may mean something, but I doubt that it means everything, which could be the case as well, but the probability is lower than Tyrion’s knees.

[@Morganasnotarobot0]

​@@Wolltazarlol😅lower than trecherous tyrions knees!🤣🦵🦵⚔🗡🗿😮😅

[@idawg7332]

The way I see it best case scenario we get winds in 5 years and then he announces he is bringing in another author to write dream of spring for him.

[@l.4165]

WW. Woodrow Wilson? Willy Wanka? Winds of Winter.

[@zalmoxis2111]

You got me!

[@ephraimcullen]

Wilford Woodruf

[@ahmedlaa6287]

Walter white is azor'hai

[@Sam_Martyn]

*shits myself*

[@justinchalmers3464]

Wosama bin Waden?

[@asterozoan]

"A blue rose has a lot of symbolism in this story" Man GRRM has written so much symbolism into his stories that you could link almost any random post to A Song of Ice and Fire

[@ldariusd21]

Nah that blue rose means a lot in the story and is mention in every book of I'm not mistaken

[@connormitchell6446]

Lets be real he could post a picture of his shit and we'd link it to Tywin dying on the Privy😂

[@danielallen4450]

Let's be real. Knowing him, it could just be that the Snow show is going ahead.

[@astonblanche137]

Well the good news is it's definitely not that

[@theb3654]

Winds has to be the hardest book to write because he needs to bring everyone together by the end, I think Spring will be much easier to write.

[@connormitchell6446]

Yes I agree 100%

[@jacobenke7936]

Yup.

[@DaveReithmiller1983]

Agree, I thought the same thing

[@f__kzhina]

much easier means five years or? to finish the series he needs to work for another ten years most likely 😢

[@frankvandorp2059]

That's what we call wishful thinking.

[@McHobotheBobo]

Not only is "Words of Wisdom" the same acronym as "Winds of Winter" it is the exact same number of letters!

[@michaelwills1926]

I remember doing this same thing for half life 3.

[@averystevenson7155]

He also capitalized both words and wisdom. Which is strange if it's simply a statement.

[@Taveren]

​​@@michaelwills1926 i mean... they did eventually drop the hint in alyx concretely

[@newguy7209]

And the same number of syllables.

[@gottenm9106]

And in the same language!!!

[@charbo187]

words are wind

[@SuperEloy100]

March is also the month when Winter ends and Spring starts. In the Northern Hemisphere, of course, where George lives.

[@jgr7487]

One massively important thing is that Winds carries a lot of leftover material. If he ends Winds in Winds, we'll have fewer issues with Dreams coming in 5 or 25 years.

[@queenxx1690]

GRRM is 75

[@jgr7487]

@@queenxx1690 We know how old he is.

[@squamish4244]

GRRM in 2050: "It will get here when it...blaahhhheeeehhhhhhh..."

[@marcusappelberg369]

We should develop better medical care, to prolong life, so GRR can finish his damn series.@@squamish4244

[@dookieshoe2905]

What I appreciate about this post is it kinda proves to all the naysayers that he _does_ still care about this story and these characters. It is still important to him to continue the story. I just can't believe how many people will say that he doesn't care anymore and he's just lying about writing Winds. You can tell how important it is to him, he didn't just post this to string us along. If it does get an official November release date the hype this summer will be insane.

[@darthmalgus232]

The “naysayers” will continue to be right until The Winds of Winter hits shelves.

[@dookieshoe2905]

@@darthmalgus232 what does this even mean? He's either working on it or he isn't. I think you missed the point of my comment.

[@barkley8285]

He gave up years ago. It doesn’t take 13 years to write a single book. Super sad but he stopped giving a shit years ago.

[@ciamciaramcia99]

He does care, but it's more complicated than that. He can care but still procrastinate or constantly rewrite the same chapter for 6 months.

[@Chu9947]

Yeah. To suggest that the guy who literally created this world and working on it for 3 decades does no care about them is ridiculous.

[@endymion8370]

As someone who started reading the books in 2003, one thing I've learnt about GRRM's updates, is that he does not communicate in code. If there is a major update, or a book is due for publication, he'll just announce it directly, no ambiguity.

[@kurasai6009]

let the masses keep busy (me included)

[@alexcollins4]

I think this is copium but I can see where your coming from.

[@Gino_5550]

Major copium bro😂but the fans been waiting for 12 yrs. Can you blame them?

[@f__kzhina]

copium maximum 😂

[@tisucitisin1]

I was thinking that about 10 years ago, that he is secretly finishing all books and will get them out practically back to back (similar to what you're saying for WOW and DOS), but man, he didn't deliver. And mind you, I started reading ASOIAF 20 years ago, in 2004.

[@X-atm092]

I'm firmly in the camp of "No hope allowed until the book is in hand" but.. I'll be watching.

[@dr.embersfield1551]

George said when he finishes the book, he will announce it straight forwardly, no riddles.

[@BlackHand531]

THE COPE... THE COPE IS REAL! IF THEY ANNOUNCE ITS FINISHED?... I might cry.

[@Alpha1200]

The problem with JUST splitting the book is that it doesn't work structurally, potentially. Like structure is important to stories. I think a lot of readers don't think about it actively, but it has a huge impact. Books have a certain flow that must be adhered to. If you just split a book in the middle it can be a worse book because of it, just experientially. So he'd undoubtably have to do at least some rewriting to be able to split it. Personally, I think this post probably just means he was writing on Winds. Like I think maybe he just finished Jon's chapters or something. jon is represented as a blue rose, it seems, in Daenerys' House of the Undying vision. So using the blue rose to say he's finished Jon would make sense. Or it could be he just got done writing the reveal that Lyanna is Jon's mother or something. That would also make sense. But I don't expect it to be foreshadowing that Winds is about to be released. I mean, MAYBE. But he said he was about 3/4ths done not super long ago. So he would've had to have written that last fourth very, very quickly. Or at least decided to move some of the material to Spring. Although, to be fair, he has said before that he speeds up towards the end of a book and he has shifted material into the next book many, many times. So it's not impossible, but it wouldn't be my first guess. I think there's some copium being smoked, but it's not impossible.

[@shaycase1834]

I swear it was the like, late last summer or early fall when he said he was 3/4 done. I really just want a conclusion. I’m still hopeful. Don’t give up George!

[@AmandaCosta-te6hi]

I really want to believe 🤩🤩😍🥰

[@Alpha1200]

As for titles, at one point one of the books was going to be titled "A Time for Wolves." If the next book involves the Starks rising again, like they seemed to do in season 6 of the show, then "A Time for Wolves" would be a reasonable title, I think. Then "The Winds of Winter" for the book that ends with the Others coming through the wall. And then "A Dream of Spring" for the book where they're fought and defeated.

[@joxidearmageddonator882]

I've thought something similar for a while. I watched an interview with George and he said that originally he wanted to complete the story in 3 novels, then it went to 5, now its at an intended 7, but he said his wife believes there will end up being either 8 or 9 and his wife is usually right, or something like that. My theory (copium) is that George will release what he's written so far for Winds as A Time For Wolves, get that out to the masses, and hopefully giving him inspiration to power through to A Dream of Spring

[@dookieshoe2905]

@@joxidearmageddonator882 Winds should have been book 5 but he split book 4 so it's hard to say how many it will now take. I don't see it being wrapped up in just two books though.

[@Marvolo14]

George is 75 years old and he is morbidly obese. He has spent 13 years writing Winds of Winter. He's not even going to finish the 7th book, and the only ending his magnum opus will ever have is season 8 of GOT.

[@realhillkell]

​@@Marvolo14 Are u restarted??

[@jgr7487]

My guess is that this is not about A Dream of Spring, it's about his book no longer being his. When he's writing, he's the only owner of the work, but it becomes a property of the fans when it's released.

[@entwifey]

🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@hanitschi]

He's obviously just letting us know he just finished Twin Peaks Season 3

[@michaelwills1926]

“The blue rose”

[@Dante-uj5pc]

'We live inside a dream...'

[@doppelgangerfa2920]

But who is the dreamer?

[@cpaulwick]

WOW and Stormlight 5 in the same month? That would be insane.

[@Roqqnrolla]

Rhaegar Targaryen presented Lady Lyanna Stark with blue roses to symbolize his loyalty, my guess is hopefully WOW is actually soon to be released and the storyline with R+L=J officially being put into writing either way I'm super excited!, is definitely GRRM dropping hints

[@zachariusB]

he's saying 'this story belongs to me, not you. it comes out when it comes out.'

[@curtislellman9944]

I dont think it means it’s done but it’s the first time I feel like he’s actually working on it

[@rinmartell2678]

That’s kinda sad

[@MegaMacReal]

He may still be playing this game: his Meraxes post starts with a picture of Mr. Toad from "WIND in the WIIIIllows" and the first sentence is "Well, this is COOL." (my emphasis in both)

[@IreliAmBad]

Could also make a comparison to the scene in the TV show where Margery leaves the rose for her Grandmother. A subtle signal to let us know something is happening without upsetting his publishers. That's probably a stretch though. Just let me dream.

[@joshwhalen17]

You can find cassette tape audiobook readings of "A Game of Thrones" on KZbin right now with narrator introductions promoting George RR Martin's upcoming book, "A Dance With Dragons, the second volume of The Song of Fire and Ice Trilogy".

[@vololudo4671]

In the words of Sir Dunk the Lunk "if wishes were fishes".... But I do wish

[@edmann1820]

I actually appreciate the optimism. Here's how I read it. I see it as a response to people saying he owes us a conclusion. Dreams only have one owner. He's saying his dream belongs to him not to us and so we're not entitled to anything.

[@isaacmendes1926]

i came to the same conclusion.

[@Gino_5550]

Basically a giant fuck you to all the fans

[@tigre2azul]

Then why put the blue rose on the top? Just doesnt add up

[@edmann1820]

@@tigre2azul What do you think the blue rose represents?

[@barb8409]

​@@edmann1820Jon's mother, which will no doubt be one of the most important reveals in WOW

[@bigaldoesbooktube1097]

Oh no.. I’m now totally on board with this madness 😆🫣

[@Shru4144]

Just bring back A Time for Wolves Title. The reason he probably won't split things is because he cannot garden if he publishes. He's committed at that point and can't revise.

[@jacobenke7936]

Agreed on the splitting. Meereen especially is going to require careful writing to get Daenerys out in a believable way, and it leaves threads that he has to take into consideration much later in the story.

[@robgillies2576]

I’m (wishfully) thinking it means he’s been writing the Bran chapter where R + L = J is revealed, and it’s going well. He finds Bran hardest to write, so, could be great news if it means he’s making progress on one of the hardest parts of that final 25% he has left to write!

[@deadlyharborseal]

I'm guessing grrm had a chapter or paragraph he realized he needed to move to ADOS and that's why he's posting this... he's technically started ADOS, but not necessarily done with with Winds. When Dance was finished he already had 200+ pages of overflow that went into Winds.

[@ryanratchford2530]

GRRM will tell us ASAP when the book is finished. He's been harassed for over 12 years, he'll be so excited and loud when it's done. There's no reason he'll keep it secret. Even when he does finish, it'll take about 6 months for it to be edited & published & released.

[@osmya0044]

Dance only took like 2 months to edit before release

[@swayback7375]

Lol if it only takes that long I’d guess it’s an indication of how much editing they must do along the way… If you look at the last two times grrm mentioned how much of winds is done, in 2022 (or early 23) he said he’s written 1500 pages with 100-200 to go, but in late 2023 he said there’s 1200 finished with 100-200 more pages to write. That’s clearly a lot of editing… if you think about his style, the massive amount of subplots, hidden stories and myths as well as the way so many of the pov characters stories tie together across the course of many chapter of even across multiple books… it is A LOT to keep straight… if anything I’d guess they spend more time “editing” the ASOIF books than grrm takes to write them. He clearly has these stories outlined if not fairly fleshed out in his mind but making sure all those intricate detail align is truly a gargantuan undertaking and he has messed a few of them up by his own admission, no doubt that drives him crazy… and it stirs up the fans big time and he’s the one who’s gunna have hear us gripe on and on over something that he doesn’t want to hear about…

[@krissuyx]

I don't know. He might not want to give it away anti-climactically.

[@baab4229]

Judging by his books he's a huge fan of symbolism, cryptic and ambiguous messages and hidden meanings.

[@princememphis7726]

Not if he's been contracted to keep his mouth shut and wants a big rollout after the success of the show

[@alexandermendez4653]

It's fun to dream

[@nightraven2975]

I really, really, really want Winds of Winter to be finished soon. I know the odds are in high, but a man can only dream.

[@sypherthe297th2]

Its just a middle finger to the people who have grown tired of his BS. Hes saying his "dream" is his and to stop complaining.

[@brian177]

Pretty there you can indeed purchase an official (Kindle) edition of Malazan which includes the whole series in one volume.

[@peezy419]

He is still also writing hedge knight too

[@Allconjecture]

Blue rose filles the world with sweetness. Winds of winter release will fill the world with sweetness at least towards George.

[@BestBFam]

Very interesting. Good job not listening to haters. This video is fun and I no longer care about the opinions of those who hate fun.

[@GreylanderTV]

Dudes: "Words are wind" is a common expression used all over ASoIaF, and "Wisdome comes wtih winters" is a quote from Oscare Wilde. The blue rose is of course the _winter_ rose, and has huge connection with Rhaegar & Lyanna, so obviously a reference to the books. Hashtags dream and writing obviously means he is now writing A Dream of Spring, also meaning he is done writing Winds of Winter. The Faulkner quote refers to a lonely dreamer, also suggesting that A Dream of Spring is the _last_ book to be written (i.e. lonely). This is absolutley a declaration that Winds of Winter is done.

[@jfaria1548]

Let’s hope so!!!

[@bjrnbrynemo9059]

Worst case scenario is that none of the last two books comes out, and George refuses anything from the books to be releast after his death. But, I don't think that will happen. He'll probably allow for the release of an incomplete Winds of Winter, put together by someone he respects. Maybe afterwards they can writhe some sort of biography, explaining where he went wrong and the different ways he tried of make the story go and how it might have ended. This scenario combined with more Song of Ice related (non-main series) books, and lots of (hopefully great) tv-shows, isn't the worst thing in the world in my opinion. And best case scenario might still happen. Dud might live to be 100 for all we know.

[@Rhaegar259ac]

Dreams is never coming out.

[@bryanfish7303]

I've been saying for years he painted himself into a corner with the whole 7 book thing. He has changed so much as the story has developed, wrapping it all up in two books (even epically long books) would feel somewhat rushed, with potentially POV character deaths every few chapters. I believe if he had made the decision after Dance... that it would take 9 or 10, noone would have complained and we would have had at least one and probably two books by now. We all love the mysteries and speculation in the story and I feel most fans are more interested in continuing the journey rather than reaching the ultimate destination

[@tasha1357]

with the time it’s taking I hope it’s the best ending to a story ever written

[@astrinymris9953]

In the original advanced reading copy of 'Games of Thrones', the end of it stated that the next book in the series would be, 'A Dance of Dragons'. Then 'Dance' was going to be the third book of a trilogy. Now it's the fifth book of a seven book series. Adding an eighth book would be completely in consistent with how the series has evolved so far, that's all I'm saying. If GRRM as a writer is a gardener, he planted zucchini. 😉

[@donmujtaba]

He is a perfectionist and perfection takes time

[@matorchiana]

I imagine that perhaps a problem was that the entire book of Winds was 1300 pages. How to compress it, maybe they convinced you that there are 2 books of 800 pages each. Volume 1 and 2.

[@MugenHeadNinja]

I've been watching Jimmy's One Piece read through since he first started, I noticed the Robert and ASOIAF stuff in the background but never realized he did a channel/podcast on ASOIAF content, what a hell of a video to discover the channel with!

[@Chris-tj5kg]

It's scraping the bottom of the barrel 😂 but I will take it! But highly doubt it due to his interview in November stating he only had 1100 pages done. Let's just hope 🙏

[@CheeseCrumbs00]

1100 manuscript pages

[@Sporking]

great stuff guys

[@lilfreezie6302]

we're so back

[@SuperAaron55555]

Are the Starks finally proven correct? Has winter finally come?

[@peezy419]

I know it’s a long shot but this still gave me a smile a joy to think it’s coming soon I think it’s gonna be out after the season of HOTD

[@mitth.rawdog.nuruodo]

I can see Dream taking less time because he could easily have TONS of content that just didn’t fit the timeline/scope of Winds but would slot neatly after it. This is the little beacon of hope that I hold, at least. 😂 And what’s 8 books when it was supposed to be 3, in the long long ago? (Have there been any other times that he’s visited his UK publishers besides pre-novel-release? I think that’s the key to letting myself feel HYYYYYYPE after all this time. If the scenario really is just like pre-Dance… WHEW. I’M READY.)

[@Gino_5550]

Mate Dream ain't happening. We're lucky if we get winds. He's 75 and his writing speed is decreasing exponentially with his age. And not to be pessimistic but I doubt he's gonna live another 12 years. He's not exactly the healthiest guy

[@tigre2azul]

He's not the only one writing the books, he has a few pupils he wants to finish the books if he dies@@Gino_5550

[@AVerySillySausage]

In theory, but I just see him taking his foot off the pedal and relaxing too much which will more than negate it. It will still take 10+ years. And I don't remember his planned writing schedule, but didn't he even say he plays to write more F&B or Dunk and Egg stuff after Winds. Dream is dead.

[@2totabon]

This post is cryptic as it simply proves that the Twin Peaks fandom has all of the good ones

[@tkirby]

Walts of Whitman

[@Adam-eu5hi]

one slight thing is he also posted a blue rose on the 25th October in a very similar post with a quote from Isaac Asimov but the title of said post is Words for Our Times which would have been a few weeks before his trip to Britain going by the 4 months thing. He also used the blue rose image on 24th July 2023 and 18th January 2023,

[@marcusappelberg369]

Yes, it means nothing. Just a sweet summer dream.

[@laurentv.6631]

The post from July '23 states "8 is more than enough" , so that's our answer to the splitting... Okay, I'm kidding😅

[@arthuralves904]

I read just the fiest book, began the second, but stopped a year ago. Recently I just wanted to get back from the forst and then I see this... I hope when O finish the fifth he already dropped the sixth book.

[@josephkosteniuk4302]

Haven’t watched the whole thing yet, but the tags Dreams and Writing, is he writing dream of spring and done with winds?

[@user-xu6pt9eh3v]

This could be epic!!! I hope your right and it’s done,,,

[@user-si7ig6ul7l]

He's announcing the next Wild Cards A Dream Hand

[@alcazarfreddy]

any updates?

[@EricGray-zr2es]

Jorah the explora, Stanis the menace, Tyrion the librarian, Sansa the romancer, Oberyn never sobering, Theon the neon, Jon the con, Bariston the embarrassor

[@wyatt1828]

Winds of winter and words of wisdom also have the same number of letters

[@deadlyharborseal]

I think if he decides to add a book 8 he will fall into the temptation of expanding the storylines again rather than angle them toward their conclusions

[@michaels2502]

I think he’s probably writing a Jon chapter while his mind is in Ghost post-assassination.

[@meganjk]

At this point if he's not going to surprise us with both books... I've given up on ever seeing either, so I'll be excited at anything but a tiny piece of me still hopes he just decided to finish both after making us wait so long. *re-reads samples chapters in puddle of my own tears... again*

[@TheForbiddenChode]

I just want to know what Rickon’s like now.

[@meganjk]

@@TheForbiddenChode Middle aged?

[@TheForbiddenChode]

@@meganjk Little man’s been stuck on Skaago Island for years now 😂

[@meganjk]

@@TheForbiddenChode 😂😭

[@EarnestTargenfyre]

It's definitely coming in late 2024.

[@BlielPol]

Indeed this is copium. If he wanted to communicate that Winds is done (or close), he would say it outright, he wouln't be putting out cryptic hints for people to decipher. Just not his style.

[@RidleyJones]

Simple way of breaking into three books: Winds of Winter -- A Dream of Spring -- My Sweet Summer Adult

[@TheMijoAaron]

1:45 aww good msg I agree

[@michaelwills1926]

“Come back babe, you know I love ya”

[@Assistint]

100% it’s done !

[@franlpk9587]

Are you guys sure its not because of some american football crap

[@Noahjh23]

What gets me is what you point out at the very beginning about how everything is so similar when he was done with Dance. Like how are there so many exact similarities? Makes me hope, but still would not be surprised if it means nothing. Plus, he's gotta know what he's doing with the same amount of lettering as Winds of Winter and the blue rose and the dreams. Like cmon.

[@anahi977]

i like how they make a video for such a little thing, they are living the dream!, i'm more patient

[@scottanthonyweidner8692]

Re: splitting the book and getting part of it put out - the more of the story he finishes and publishes before he kicks the bucket, the less of a blot on his legacy.

[@user-kl1bx6gw6d]

the hashtags for GRRM's post are 'Writing' 'Dreams'!!!!

[@angelfieseler5358]

When DOD came out I started my BS ,I have my Ms now for 3 years , still waiting not optimistic

[@BaccarWozat]

A blue rose is a Twin Peaks reference

[@Kriegerdammerung]

"I chose to believe" and there is the clue, gang. I am Argentinian, and during the World Cup all my countrypeople would utter the words "La Scaloneta, I chose to believe" (Being La Scaloneta a reference to the team coached by Lionel Scaloni, Argentina)... and everyone knows how that story ended ;)

[@oswinhull4203]

Yeah that is so cryptic. I have to believe it is done or at least in the final stages. I suspect he has been into a dream of spring for some of the story lines for a while now because he tends to focus on one characters point of view at a time. For the other books in the series he was well into the next book before finishing the previous book.

[@AVerySillySausage]

People missing the 3rd possibility, it's obviously intentional, not just something people are making up and reading too much into. But it doesn't mean the book is done or that close, even though he knows that's what fans will get excited about. He is probably just on a hot streak with writing or something.

[@San_Vito]

@@AVerySillySausage The most obvious answer is that he sees himself as the dreamer, and his work as his dream, so he's basically saying "I don't need to finish my work, it's mine, no one else is entitled to anything".

[@drgordo112]

Dickens published in instalments, but we call them novels.

[@blackaua]

ASOIAF fans are so desperate they have to 'decipher' the release date of the next book from a boomer quote post.

[@alex30425]

I think George should make it two volumes that way he’s able to properly conclude Winds instead of having to push major parts to the next book. Secondly this would give him space to place the characters where they need to be for the final book. Also if needs a name for another book, could call the other book A Times if Wolves as he has said he was originally going to call the final book that when it was a trilogy.

[@user-bp1vu4dz6b]

I think Dream has always been part 2 of winds. After Feast he knew he had to split the last one also.

[@Pianist-yousif]

Thought it’s a REAL update 🫣🫣

[@Oj_Pimpson]

I’m rock hard

[@Paul_Caruana]

Fingers crossed that Wow will indeed come out this year. But I don’t think that GRRM will add an eighth book, rather he will transfer some of the excess material from winds to dream.

[@void.lawyer]

It's also spring

[@Schellnino1994]

Seems like a Twin Peaks reference to me

[@divelostmind]

twin peaks has a blue rose, and they came back to finish the show

[@billyalarie929]

I still think he’s been writing W and D side by side.

[@thebrain8188]

He said he wants a 1500 page book for the last two. It’s roughly 60% of a manuscript page that makes up a book page for what his publishers do. He last said he has 1100 pages written, then he technically has his 1500 page book. And he often talks about wanting to write more novellas and a book 2 to F&B, any though about hiring his protege James Corey or his other minions who “know his world better than him” to get rough drafts going?

[@rhonecherrington2131]

A dream won't ever come my guy, but i am shocked more people aren't saying something about this

[@f__kzhina]

it is known