Genius or CRAZY!!! - Slalom fin in a Wave board!!

Wojtek Brzozowski is changing the game...
FULL video on Wojtek channel : • Slalom 7,8 Severne iSO...

[@WindsurfingTV]

FULL video on Wojtek channel : kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKSQgZx-gc98j7Msi=iXpCeiXdkMOcc3Ha

[@pawehlavaty7635]

Wojtek is thinking out of the box and so he was in the racing days. I’ve seen him as a pioneer of making race booms wide in front and back, cutting new NP carbon booms right of the box… when everyone else was scratching their head. He also was experimenting with swinging fins in formula boards. Shaving off the box and screw wholes - the fin was enabled to move more to the sides, not mentioning of cuts in sails, remaking them etc. for sure he’s had a very good undesrstanding of how the gear works and I was always carfuly watching him:)) fun fact he would often share his ideas with us competitors, which I appritieted a lot… cheers Wojtek

[@wojtekbrzozowski]

Palmer the King :)

[@robhoekstra955]

as a 57 yr old windsurfer, coming from the era of wooden booms, and naval architect who did his thesis on keels and rudders of sailing yachts, I tell you, this makes 100% sence. You are looking for optimal drag to lift ratio. As long your board does roll over, the fin is not to long.

[@thorstenpusch1139]

Come on Ben, you should try this by yourself. I'm looking forward to hear of that.

[@michaelkjk]

Yes, the comeback of the singlefin waveboards!😂

[@davethewave1898]

we've been here before. LOL Single fins are the new madness! ;). Joking aside - here on the great lakes, on shore conditions and lots of shore current so we need powerful boards to get around. WAY BACK in the early 90's when I got serial number 0001 Seatrend 88 ATV from the factory, I brought it to our local board repair guy STILL IN THE SHIPPING BOX and had him rip out the A box and install a tuttle box. He thought I was crazy. The tuttle box barely fit in the board and I could run bigger, more upright fins in it. It was amazing. Many of us here in the midwest US who sail the great lakes run single fin in conditions less windy than 5.0 and we tape over our other boxes to decrease drag. Nice to see this catching on! ;)

[@billyinwaves]

Woah, let's break down what is being said here. Firstly, we need some more information>: 1) How heavy is this guy, and 2) What sort of 'wave riding' is he doing? 3) What size is the board (looks huge) and, 4) What size rigs is he using? All these questions are crucial to this discussion. If you want your wave board to feel like your slalom board then get another slalom board, or maybe a free ride. If you are using a rig bigger than, say 5.5m, then that's not what we generally call wave sailing conditions. If you are more interested in jumping and speed, then in turning on the wave face, then for sure, going old school with a longer fin will give you more drive off the back foot - but an upright slalom fin will NOT turn well on the wave. Too long a single fin will cause the board to ride high on its tail and if overpowered your board will tail walk. Multi fin boards were invented to allow the wave sailor to sail off the rail, like with surfing.. You don't need a long slalom fin to go upwind on a wave board either - you just need to be planing and reasonably well powered. Multi fin boards go upwind just fine! There is nothing wrong with the boxes fitted to modern wave boards, be that the US box or the shorter Slotbox, but, if you are stupid enough to want a long single fin in a wave board then a Powerbox or a Tuttle set up is stronger for people who want to use the 'wrong' sort of fin. Note that it's pretty impossible nowadays to buy wave fins for these deeper boxes. There are plenty of boards designed for bump and jump conditions or 'wave slalom' - and they are usually sold under the freewave or freestyle wave category. But if you want to turn in a tight arc, you still need a fin that is swept back at the tip.

[@mmmdesignllc]

I have a 13 inch pointer in a 72 liter wave board. I've done this since the 90's. I'm not the only one. I have friends that have done this as well.

[@blakoemail]

In a galaxy far far away It all started with a humble single fin usbox, then the new school, waveriding oriented, twin fin took over the masses. But the weapon of choice for the hardcore big wave sailors was the quattro fin set up. Unless you are a masterful jumping maestro in which case you use only your trusted tri fin waveboard. But if you are all the obove and confused no worries here's a new board with 5 boxes which can be everything you wanted to be. Wait a minute, a true revolution is about to happen in waveboard design and in a few years at a store near you the all new, upgraded, single fin, wave slalom, Tuttle fin box waveboard can be yours for only 3.999,99 euros.

[@wojtekbrzozowski]

🤣😂😂😂🤣

[@jimikrikit]

This really appears to be old school becoming new school again. "Convertible boards" "Tear drop Convert Fins" I hear people saying best gear developed on Maui, but the reality is that most windsurfers don’t sail on Maui or in Maui conditions. Most places you need more speed and lift to get out in onshore wind and side shore current. I recently just tracked down one of the old boards I used to own, a 1998 seatrend 260 ATV that has a single fin tuttle box. It is very loose and turns great. You can put a big fin in it and have a lot of fun on it in the waves and still rip on your way out for big airs. They really should be thinking about bringing back some of the single fin powered up boards for mid range sailing on 5.5s and 6.5s 😁. And not at 25 inches wide 👍

[@kev-the-windsurfer.]

Im not surprised, people who think outside the box often work on angles some people don't agree with or find a bit odd. Seems like his reasoning is solid, at the end of the day, you gotta do whatever gets the feel and performance you're after. I use a Black Project 23cm Epic wave fin a lot of the time on my 105 Free wave, that fin has a LOT of area and people laugh at me especially when I am sailing Down the Line spots, but I use it beause of currents that constantly push me down wind, nobody laughs when I am easily staying upwind of everyone else.... I use what works, not what "should" work....

[@marcelbax7186]

In 2000 i had a bic wave / slalom board, allways onna slalom Fin . It did workflow for me for jumping .

[@kevinbryski]

He sails like me: go big or go home. Well done. We need more

[@k4fins405]

I seem to remember Robby Naish using a slalom board at Ho'okipa in a PWA (PBA?) wave event 👌 A lot of people on wave gear are for sure better off on FSW kit for the conditions they have.

[@beewindows]

I,m 65 years old windsurfer , from Brasil, and boat constructor. In the past 70th, I put a 6.5 slalom rig in simple surf board. And it works. Guys, nothing news, under the sun... or under the waterlines😊

[@bartpawlikowski]

Wojtek is very creative. He co-created starboards many times. I wonder how many of you realize that the narrow shape of the foil sail came from Wojtek Brzozowski. The story is interesting when a few years ago he went to a competition in Japan with Steve Allen. The boys' results were very poor. They returned to Poland and Wojtek suggested that Steve convert his sail to a narrow one. The result was that Steve went from being a guy at the back of the field to being in the top 10 at the next competition in Spain. If the rumors are true, Neilp Pryde stopped the sail production and quickly resumed it in a new style. And it's all thanks to Wojtek Brzozowski.

[@actionmedia4all]

I have been doing this in the late 90's, we put in a powerbox and used slalomfins. I used the waveboard as a highwind chopkilling slalomboard. I sailed it with a slalom sails and wavesails

[@looplessa1]

Most wave or free wave boards now use slot box , or mini tuttle with maybe a power box or us box center. With a power-box center fin it is easy to try a hi-performance center fin without having to destroy your board. I'll bet you will find it's crap for actual wave riding.

[@jamesmckenzie4572]

Genius, maybe. I used a mildly swept g10 slalom fin on my Cobra wave board for windy bump and jump sailing for a long time. It feels more crisp and quicker to respond, floats higher, is faster, and gets upwind better. With a surf fin it feels like the tail of the board is getting sucked down and turns are spongy. But an advantage of the US box over the Tuttle is the ability to place the fin in just the right spot to dial in the radius of turn you want.

[@dstafylakis]

I love his "thinking outside the (US) box" attitude. Maui Ultra fins designer has always said that dolphin-shaped fins are insufficient for wave sailing, and it's true that his wave fin design works brillantly on any board. I ve been using them for years and they are simply fantastic for single-fin wave boards. BUT: a tuttle box is just too thick for the slim tail of a wave board. And the other practical issue is that if you put a tuttle box in the back, there is no room for the rear footstrap to go. It haad been tried with powerboxes in the 90s and the US box won because of that. Tuttle (let alone deep tuttle) is just too thick for a wave board.

[@andreslarrain2790]

Nice idea. I can’t imagine how I can be. I definitely a big fan of multi fins. Give just another dimension to me. Ben, you’ve got to try this for us! You’re the man! Sure you can get a shaper make one for you!!! Would love to have a impartial review of it.

[@schneller_finger]

My first thought is, that there is no need for a propper wave board with Tuttle Box to achieve this. And probably not a 400 Euro fin. Try a freewave with powerbox and a reasonable good Powerbox slalom fin like Z-FINS Silverline or even cheaper and more robust a G10 slalom fin (e.g. Maui Ultra Fins).

[@alb3096]

Should we try a wave fin on a slalom board?

[@schobihh2703]

It is easy to go tuttle box, if you build your own fins. I am strong believer that single fin is much better for the majority of windsurfers also for wave. Just look that video from Traversa comparing his old single fin board compared to the newer multi fin versions. Watching him ripping you immediately see that single fin is better. Multifin has many disadvantages.

[@Premed1981]

This guy is a crazy genius. He uses 6.2 sail with 60knots wind. Makes it look easy. Extremely skilled. I'm sure his ideas work, but you need to be very high level windsurfer.

[@rafehsaleh]

Makes a lot of sense although I’m quite biased. I was part of the Egyptian racing team back in 1993 and Wojtek was our instructor. He used to go circles around us 🙃Great guy

[@kenkulluson2472]

Tony Logoz used to put Tuttle box in his wave boards he was making back in the 90s

[@tobylane4935]

Caravan Club... a sense of freedom you dont get on other holidays.

[@apocapocpocapoc1560]

Genius and Crazy !

[@JohnCrim]

I have used Slalom fins many times in wave boards in the 90s - if there's current, or for better jumps in lighter wind it's the way to go. As an ex racer, you can do forwards on flat water on a slalom board on a 5.3, but if you're on a wave board and wave fin you can't get the height (eg a light wind day in the gorge). Add the SL fin, and if you have a wave board with a flatter rocker, you get better planing and pop. Note that Dale Cook's big jumps are all on a small slalom board + fin. The wave fin works better on the wave face, but definitely doesn't work better for jumping.

[@surfrider75]

Quads and Thrusters are maybe not the best for these kind of conditions. A more straight single fin is fast. Which really works in some conditions.

[@ericthered.147]

I still have some 30-35 year old US box fins from True Ames or Dill. Remember Dill? I use them in a free wave board occasionally if I need more upwind. Back when a single box was still more popular, even for waves, there were so many different fin shapes! Instead of going Tuttle, some entrepreneur could revive US box pointing fins!

[@cosmicpapa]

Genius !

[@franzjacke]

Genious, I used freeride/slalom fin on a freestyle board in similar conditions just previous week. Same reasons:speed

[@jeanmi425]

Genius

[@pwahlman]

I look forward to hearing the podcast 🤙

[@Nawona]

Nothing new for sire, the guy just reinvented Bump&Jump, or should I say Wave-Slalom ? ´cause it’s all the same .

[@ernstmathijssen033]

You have to be a bit crazy to be genious

[@jeffcondell]

He's spot on!

[@Stev-0_The_Foiler_69]

I still have a Tuttle box Hot Works full-on waveboard made in NZ from the early 90s. Maybe dust it off and put a slalom fin in it and report back?🤔

[@vigolivenca]

I guess he is reinventing the FSW, I guess with a foil ready fin box you now can have a single board for most of one needs, but that would be bad for the industry :D

[@simongodfrey3765]

Wojtek is really interesting, he's a rider with pedigree so has to be taken seriously. I've been following his YT channel for a while - he makes his own fins and they seem shorter than the norm, so he's not afraid of thinking outside the box. What really interests me is the prospect of putting a pure slalom fin in a freestyle wave board, I think it could be electric, maybe even a Defi Wind solution!

[@soulzerosix]

Years ago I got a used fsw and the guy gave it to me with a carbon powerbox slalom fin. It was small in area and very sharp, not the most powerful thing going upwind, but completely drag-free on a reach. First run was actually scary because I had never sailed so fast before and I got to the rocky end of the beach way sooner than expected. Shows the importance of a good fin and choosing the right shape for the intended purpose.

[@simongodfrey3765]

@@soulzerosix Sounds fantastic! Can you remember the width/volume of the board and the length of the fin? My fsw uses the original 25cm fin it came with and I'm trying to figure out what length of slalom fin would be best for it (90L, 59cm width).

[@soulzerosix]

@@simongodfrey3765 It was a JP around 95lts and 60cm wide. Said fin was 28cm but very narrow, so little area for the length. It felt like what I imagine a speed fin feels like, I needed to aggressively bear away for it to start working, and almost had no limit at how fast it would go. I replaced it very soon as I didn't think it complemented the board or the way I was trying to sail.

[@simongodfrey3765]

@@soulzerosix Thanks for getting back to me, I've sailed that kind of fin before. I think I'll start looking for something suitable. ATB

[@mathijsbro]

Totally genius :-) Of course Wojtek is so experienced that he can make anything work. Maybe we should experiment more with new fin design. I dont like it if we get to may differnt systems though, standards are good.

[@Lottevdt]

Thats exactly why i hate wave gear, its so slow, can't get decent upwind angle and have no grip. I always thought it whas becouse of the stupid fin and it turns out it is! Maby i do the same with my wave board and then wave riding could be fun!

[@iggymon1019]

different strokes for different folks, rip it any way u like!

[@klimaanlagenjochen]

Hi Ben, I'm doing something similar but without Changes to my board. Two years ago I started using a Foil. Then I decided to replace my 85L Board by a JP Freestyle Wave 94 LXT (Foil Approved Powerbox). Now I'm only using this board from 3 to 9 Beaufort. For light winds I use a 6.4 Freeracesail. When I change from the foil to the fin I also use a carbon slalom fin and four straps. For stronger winds I use then the thruster setup. Hang loose Jochen

[@luigilasagne5067]

Interesting, I've recently acquired a JP FSW 103 LXT 2021 and changed the original fin to a 32cm G10 slalom fin from the early 90s. Better speed, earlier planing. What exact fin model are you using?

[@klimaanlagenjochen]

@@luigilasagne5067 I'm using a Select S1 33cm and my weight ist about 70kg.

[@attilavlesko6833]

Crazy genius.

[@rocketman-Zimmer14]

The fin size depends on the sail size, rider weight, water quality (surface; current) and sailing ability. Sometimes it's just worth getting a different board. On the other hand, it's absolutely okay to just test out new ideas. Because very often people are dissatisfied with the series material in some areas of performance data. Most often when conditions deviate from the norm. 👍

[@frankstrobel4350]

what did that one custom board maker say "it's all about putting smiles on faces" if it works for him...and he's happy. then it works.

[@Beachbumextraordinaire]

Anybody remmeber wave slalom? Slalom fins on single fin wave boards?

[@jip2971]

I still have an old Exocet Wave 2.63 (95L) from 2000 with an original tuttle box, I used a freeride fin most of the time rather than a wave fin

[@charleskeefer152]

I’d like to see how that fin works down the line and rail to rail

[@kizzmiazzz]

lmao, all talkin about the fin.. but did you see hes wave riding with a SEAT HARNESS? i mean not even slalom or speed guys use SEAT today, but hes even using it in WAVES. just dont make the mistake and take this guy serious^^

[@stachu4235]

the problem is that if u ground us box on sand or hit some stones ur likely to brake fin but the board still survives unlike the tuttle where u can easily fuck up fin box

[@TheHawkinsr]

I modified a old art us box fin with grider to a 32in for my starboard flare . Works great

[@sRoGoRs]

Crazy genius LOL. I've never wave sailed.

[@surfrider75]

Anyway a better finbox then us-box or slotbox. I would love to see more Powerbox center fins. Having the slotbox thrusters to trim the board is enough for 95% of the surfers anyhow.

[@albertoespinosa2773]

Web did that in the 90 remember the camaleón boards!

[@ashleyjohnson7284]

I use a slalom fin in a freestyle board. I can put more pressure on the fin and stay upwind.

[@natkingcol909]

Yes!!! It's much easier! Unless you are doing serious wave riding then a single fin is way easier...

[@TheVinsterSF]

It has worked well for me too, when racing in super high wind and swell.

[@n_beaney]

Ben wasn't E11 doing this back in the 90s in the pwa small wave stuff ? But with a full slalom sail on his wave board ? He did have wave fins in tho .

[@davidfisher6500]

Any film of him turning on a wave ?

[@windsurfsilvaplana]

My new Waveboard with thrustersetup has also a Deeptuttlebox! So i can use it in low Wind with the Foil .... and it works perfekt. But never tested with Slalomfin ... next Time i will try :-)

[@VincentVelema]

Tutlebox, genius, just put wave fin in it. Thruster, if you want. Double truster box, twinser 🎉 so yes for trusterbox

[@jeanmi425]

what about the bottom turn & cut back?

[@christopherbroers167]

Bring back the trim box 😂!

[@slickvisualpoetry]

Got a 27 and a 37 lying around somewhere in the shed.

[@rayvelasco2059]

Most Excellent ¿

[@garybroad70]

All geniuses are a little out there , I sometimes put a powerbox free race fin in my freewave and love it ....i'm defo not a genius ... just stupid lol !

[@jeanmi425]

kind of a convertible like in the 90's

[@Pedro-145]

Bom trabalho ben

[@garybroad70]

ye can hear this fine

[@rcggijzen]

You could have at least added a link to Wojtek's original video?

[@WindsurfingTV]

I've just added it again in the comments. Maybe KZbin blocked the link on the comments.. But I made sure I shared all his channels in the video and said to people to go follow him. It's not as if I was claiming it was my content.

[@davethewave9380]

Crazy genius🤙🤡

[@campeon]

us-box, never liked the fussle with it

[@oliverrichie9921]

Not a genius, we were doing it since the '2000 with wave boards to make speed at Fuerte and Garda Lake.

[@natkingcol909]

Pretty sure that board is just his slalom board and hes trolling us....

[@pietroprestininzi]

there are tons of "slalomlike" fins with powerbox shape....I don't get the point here...

[@charlesdelapommedoree2460]

hihihi :)

[@ROCKETRICKYH]

Utter nonsense.