Winging Vs. Windsurf Foiling: A Windsurfer's Guide to Wing Ding

Will my windsurf foil gear work for winging? What conditions favor a wing? Which favor a sail? What sport wins in the tease breeze, and which is the safest? Superstars Tyson Poor and Wyatt Miller team up for answers that save money, hassle and your noggin’.

[@fitnessandinjury]

Three top blokes providing very balanced insights

[@bikemystic]

I’ve windsurfed since the 1980s, took several kiteboard lessons and just bought a wing for these reasons: it’s fun flying off the the sand dunes, I can board along the beach or in the water, I can deflate the wing, stuff it in a bag and even carry it on my bicycle. Portability, versatility and fun!

[@mwesb1994]

Thanks for this. I haven't tried a foil yet in any any discipline. I want to now. Some of my questions and assumptions cleared up.

[@AdamsHadEnough]

Definitely some of the most insightful commentary I've seen comparing the two disciplines, thanks!

[@grahamkelliher7538]

Love the video guys, thanks a bunch. Great to hear about the transition from one sport to the others. 40 years windsurfing and 24 years Kiting has me reluctant to go back to beginner stage on the wing foiling……I’m going windsurf foiling now for sure. Cheers.

[@patricegorce6749]

Thanks for providing such trustworthy insights it clears up so many doubts about which discipline to choose, or how to adapt your existing material : you ve covered it all !

[@FreshWaterWindsurfer]

Awesome video! I'm a windsurfer and windsurf foiler on the fence about getting a wing. Appreciate the advice from these two pros!

[@jedbradshaw6191]

Great video with two genuine great guys, both class acts. Lot's of great information.

[@nathanjmansfield9969]

Epic discussion, thank you for setting this up. Really good insight from experienced wind water lovers

[@sgoldie3235]

Fantastic interview! Thank you for this! Got into windfoiling this summer and I’m addicted. I’ll add a wing for swell riding next summer👍!

[@whitwhitacre738]

Thanks Eddy for putting this together. I was just contemplating taking up winging. I windsurf, windfoil and kitefoil and think winging would be a great addition. Great to hear I can just start out with a wing and my current windfoil setup 103L/790Moses. Here in the Gorge winging has exploded. Swell riding is addictive.

[@paulosilva-dm1qb]

I appreciated the honest talking of everybody...!!

[@BaskinTapkan]

Great insights - Thanks Eddy, Wyatt and Tyson

[@Dantanalicious]

Thanks guys, great video that answered a lot of questions that I had, seemed tailor made for me! See you soon in Mexico - can’t wait!

[@explore4xx]

Thanks for the insights and looking forward to more time at Pro Windsurf LV in January!

[@AndrewSmithSeattle]

Great video by all three very knowledgeable & experienced people. I used my 107 L windsurf foil board to learn winging on, and it was relatively easy and worked great. Then when I went to an 80 L wing board & foil, it was definitely a challenge, and almost felt like I was learning winging all over again! But so worth it: swell riding on a wing foil is so much fun.

[@hotchesh]

I’m currently having the exact same experience.

[@dairyairman]

This was just the video I was looking for. I've been windsurf foiling for a few months now, and am enjoying that, but recently I bought a wing. I am interested in the swell riding aspect of it, and the relatively easy learning curve. You asked and they answered all the questions I was thinking of. Thanks for posting!

[@martinomovies]

Intermediate Winging might be relatively easier to achieve than intermediate windsurfing, but it’s still hard at first. The hardest part is learning to pump up on foil. Gybing and switching your stance before/during/after the gybe is a circus trick. I started winging 9 months ago and in light wind, I’m faster and having more fun than intermediate windsurfers. Probably the hardest thing for windsurfers is putting the time into learning to wing foil. My advice is to leave the windsurf gear at home until you figure it out so you don’t split your sessions in two.

[@davidhmws]

As an experienced wsurfer lurking on the sidelines about windsurf foil versus wing foil I thought this was a great discussion of pros, cons, learning curve...... not that it sealed the deal in my mind. Lacking waves and downwind swell in my location, in which no question wing is the way to go, its still sort of a toss-up.

[@shreddagorge]

TJ at Big Winds hooked me up with a SIC Marlin which has proven a great crossover board for wing and windfoiling. Yeah I may (someday) need a smaller board for winging, but I will always have it as a windfoil and SUP/surf board rather than outgrowing it for just the wing.

[@nordroi9897]

Wow, super great Interview Eddy!

[@Beachbumextraordinaire]

Great video! My two cents: I have found out that windfoiling actually improves my windsurfing. I think this boils down to foiling helping to accelerate one´s sense of balance, which feeds into difficult maneuvers and techniques in regular windsurfing. An example off the top of my head would be gybing which requires even better timing and balance in foiling than it does in windsurfing. Have a couple of sessions on the wind oil gybing, and then gybing in the gnarliest conditions becomes so much easier. Another example: try tacking on a short windfoil board (say 190cm by 65cm), If you can start to pull that off, then tacking on the wave board becomes so much more manageable...

[@rctrix9063]

Best sales pitch for wingfoiling , I'm sold. 👍

[@BruceSpedding]

Great interview - where I'm at right now, informative but no flash bulb going off, still not sure quite where I'm heading, but that's part of the fun I guess 🙂 I've been foiling for about 3 years, have just bought a 5m wing and looking to buy a dual purpose board and foil. Current setup front wing is 770, looking at an 1800 and 1250. Shorter fuse may be an issue... so much to consider.

[@olavcramer1260]

This is awesome. Thanks so much for this insights!

[@pamelaorisek4822]

Hey Wyatt, thanks for a truly special week in La Ventana with your wind lovers, one big amped water family, thats what it`s all about, you are the bomb. Will be back. Pam & Bruce

[@barbaraannebauer9119]

This was great love you guys, especially when Wyatt said he would still rather go WINDSURFING! Ty you didn’t address which one was better for a Slam jibe! 😆

[@richardharvey6749]

Great video! I am glad to hear it’s ok to still windsurf. I have windfoiled and now just started winging and I feel odd having a pump as well. I am still on larger boards for my weight but my experience is similar - windy days are for windsurfing, light wind swell (rolling mush for me) riding is for winging, and light wind cruising is best windfoiling. I have been thrilled with the newness of foiling at low wind speeds that just seemed ridiculous for windsurfing. I chased the 8-12 kt range for years in windsurfing kits with little true enjoyment despite being a lightweight of 155 lbs. Some I know are doing what I remember my windsurfing turned kiter friends doing which is replacing their windsurfing with windfoiling except at the higher wind range. There are so many possibilities and I am so glad the foil is in widespread availability, it has almost doubled my sailing opportunities in my light wind area!

[@shreddagorge]

I switched to kiting over a decade ago and kept my (smaller) windsurf gear thinking when it's light I'd pump a 12m kite but when it's nuking I'd rig a 3.5m sail. Who knew my 7m and 5m kite and surfboard would be perfect for high winds and the 3.5m, 4.1m, and 4.6m would stay dry until they became light-wind gear for windfoiling??

[@mareks360]

Tyson, Wyatt and Eddy put an Outstanding and Balanced video to provide the Essentials and comparison. Well done ! I guess there are so many contributing factors, personal preferences, local conditions, styles etc. etc. What has not been mentioned (and it does not have to be) are Additional Factors: 1) your personal weight - in Seattle variable winds when you end up in 5-10mph, there is a lot of wing flapping/pumping and swimming in particular for heavier folks while the same weight person can enjoy windfoiling still with the "right gear" 2) TOW (Time On the Water) length pt1 "Harness" - despite of harness development for Wingfoilers, there is nothing like windsurfing/windfoiling harness, I can frequently ride for 6h-8h using seat harness, hooked in, balanced and stable, be comfy with part of my weight transferred to sail and MBP (mast base pressure), arms relaxed and lower 3) TOW (Time On the Water) length pt2 "Ergonomics" - I am not sure how older winger (50+) could keep hands up for 6-8h and be still comfortable, blood flow to arms in up position, in particular in winter /cold conditions 4) Winging in winds 0-10mph - it does not have to be with hydrofoil, I have heard that a lot of people in that light conditions used windsurfing long boards (or boards with at least the centerboard) to learn wingfoiling, that also saves a beginner from drifting downwind on "regular wingboard". Please consider this all above as Additional Factors that may not apply specifically to you, based on your personal preferences, wind conditions, your weight, your TOW, your gear preferences, your age, your fitness, etc. etc.

[@reinaldoreyes5631]

Greetings from Puerto Rico Eddie. Great video. Got a used board and foil. Trying to learn wind foil. Remembering that learning is not as much fun as doing what you know. Got to try and learn all.

[@wsurfn]

Excellent video

[@trappinout18]

Very interesting - from a Hobie 18 & Laser sailor.

[@axelplanckaert3726]

Great video, personally as a windsurf teacher I prefer from far the windfoil. But for sure a kitesurfer will prefer the wing, simply because learning the windsurf is more difficult first. I do both, kitefoil in lightwind, windfoil in medium wind, and windsurf in strong wind. But the main advantage of the windfoil is that we can ride (almost) safely when the wind is offshore. I tried the wing but I feel it's dangerous, more risk to fall on the foil while in windsurf if you keep the wishbone on your hands it's impossible.

[@michaelb9940]

Axel. Thanks for this input. I am slightly confused. I am interested in learning - both - but have ZERO background in Surfing or honestly any water sports in general. Which do you think is a good starting point? The investment is not small here in SF., so need to plan accordingly. BIG THANKS

[@windaddict]

Very interesting but one thing was missing. Wingfoiling is just so much easier from a gear and rigging standpoint. No mast, no extension, no boom, no downhaul, no outhaul, just pumping up a wing (you can even use an electric pump). The board is smaller, the gear is lighter. It's much faster and easier to get on the water with wingfoiling

[@tate2863]

Thanks. Very good video. I'm wavesailor and freeride windfoiler with small wave sails and big front wing foil in 12 knots. I'm thinking of getting winging not to uphaul the sail anymore but I have fear of losing lightwind range. Comparing with same size of sail-wing and same foil and board and same skill, is there an important advantage of windfoiling over winging for flying earlier in light wind?

[@userTJ39780]

I go back and forth between windsurfing and windsurf foiling daily. I don't find it's all that much different. I can lean further over on the windsurfer and I feel more in touch with the water, but on the foil, the bumps go away, the speed increases and it's like a magic carpet.

[@noohohno]

Thanks! 3 decades of windsurfing. Sort of similar feeling expressed by Tyson and Wyatt. Initially thought I would become a winger, but had the windsurfing gear. So added a SlingShot foil set up. Really became addicted after the first real foiling moment. The more time spent wind foiling, the less desire to wing foil. Wind cranks up rather go fin. F3-4 days are for foiling. Locally no waves. Just wind driven swell and always choppy.

[@timkasten343]

The dynamic duo!

[@followyourbliss101]

Just learned about this - noticed them mixed in with the kite surfers down at skyway in tampa. One big advantage over kite surfers is the compactness. You have your kite/sail right in your hands and not dozens of feet up and away from you. They ALL look fun though

[@richardwood9757]

11:39 Caddy wonked?!! I had to Google that! Not an expression we have in the UK. Great vid.

[@whynowind]

I’ll stick to windsurf and windfoil. Already my hands full with that.

[@snakeplisken4278]

Very interesting. Old guy wants to try something new. I have 10 years of windsurfing experience when I was 20-30 yrs old. I love windsurfing but a pain to rig up everything. How do I get into winging the easiest? Where I live now the winds are usually to light for windsurfing. Can I try a wing on a non-foiling sup board to learn or what do you suggest?

[@michaellambert8606]

Great vid, but I(winger) go out with wind foilers often, and they take twice as long to rig at least. It’s not even close, unless the sail is set up on the beach already, but from packed in a car it’s not close. Also I think self rescue is easier on a wing, since you can put your wing on your feet and paddle.

[@rutgerdezeeuw]

I'm a winger too, if I want to be quick, then I'm in the water in 10 minutes. Changing to a wetsuit takes most of the time. I feel like these guys are a bit biased towards windsurfing.

[@starmania909]

omg what bs

[@michelcote]

@@rutgerdezeeuw 10 minutes is fast for windsurfer but doable. But many just take their time. If you do a race, yes wing is faster rigging, not contest. But 5 minutes difference is no big deal.

[@barrillesmason919]

What does three minutes difference make in a three hour session ???

[@hotchesh]

In regards to self rescue. I popped my wing not far from shore in La Ventana last year and it took me forever to swim back. The bladder was filling with water and was impossible to keep or stack on top of my board. It was a nightmare I have never experienced during self rescue windsurfing. I hope it never happens again. Winging is cool though. Don’t get me wrong.

[@oneshiftmexico2188]

Great stuff bro! Open up a store here in Isla de Cozumel (choke wind & waves). Saludos!

[@MrJoefoefrombuffalo]

Longboard Windsurfer since the 1980s. At 60yrs old I'm getting too lug around the equipment even though I've got carbon fiber the best of everything. Looking for an alternative. Sail mostly in 10-15 knots on a lake that has mostly chop wind driven in comparison to swell/surfable waves. Wing foil or windsurf foil?

[@jaaaake777]

I've been offered a cheap large size pryde glide surf/ sup foil. But the guy says he needs 18 mph to get up on it wing foiling. He's the same weight as I am. If I use it windfoiling, would you expect I'd get up on less wind than this. I'm an experienced windsurfer, and thought the whole point of all kinds of foiling is you can get up with, like 10 mph of wind, so a bit confused.

[@barrillesmason919]

I started windfoiling before winging was a thing. I feel I can ride swell just fine. I can luff the sail and carve back and forth. Wingers are definitely more maneuverable (tacks and very tight carves for example) but I feel like I can do 90% of what the intermediate wingers do on my 95l wind foil board. This video almost makes it sound like riding swell on a windfoil board is hopeless.

[@muzwell]

what about and old ex-windsurfer looking to take up foiling? I was a pretty competent windsurfer back in the early 2000s - nothing flash - but I've sailed Ho'okipa when I was in Maui. But I've never tried foiling. Do you think I'd learn Windsurf foiling quicker because of my windsurf background - or should I jump straight to wing foiling?

[@jeremycarr3920]

So just watching this my, free foil 130, glide wind Foil, with large front to wing, is going to be as perfect to get me out the a wing. Just need some money to buy a wing.

[@artvandelay8030]

💯

[@papepa5629]

Everyone going to have the most fast/easier gear. Well. I personally prefer the challenge I can get with the gear I have. I didn't choose windsurf because is easy or fast. I choose windsurf because I want to challenge myself in first place. Having a more easy/fast gear do not help to reach my goal. But move it from where is now to where it will be. Pointless i my opinion. Unless you are one of who get paid to sell the newest toy or you are who take count other people prospective and feel bad of other judgment. Not my case. I don't care about money and I don't care other point of view regard what I need to have fun. :)

[@HandyCapito]

AT least people who tell the truth and say windsurfing & wind foiling is better ( if I understand all) than Wing. Grazie

[@starmania909]

they missed the most obvious fact when you windsurf foil no leash w wing your all leashed up w 2 of um wrist leg waist where the hell to put um .... i was considering attaching the wing to the board...? hmmm

[@rerite2]

Where was this filmed?

[@tebling]

Hood River, Oregon, USA

[@mis100tubos]

🤟🤟🤟

[@michaelb9940]

Guys, GREAT Video - but maybe invest in some good audio equipment? lol

[@chrestb8862]

Interesting that kites weren't a part of this conversation

[@maelperron_guerra4946]

Windfoiling is so much better

[@defenderoftheadverb]

Sound is very uneven.

[@jeroenjansen2709]

Winging is better on the foil. Windsurfing on the foil often leads to crashes.

[@maxagent86]

These are not wings in the true sense, these are kites. This sport should be called hand kiting. Still cool, anyway.

[@adrianhessels839]

Great video and everything that was said makes great sense to me having transitioned from windsurfing to windfoiling. I agree with Wyatts answer to Eddy's question about how safe Windfoiling was in overpowered gusting conditions; as since I switched to strapless windfoiling I am able to ride comfortably in gusty 35+ mph conditions, even on a bigger foil by simply moving both feet slightly forward. Regarding the swell/small wave riding side I have been following the wingfoilers around and agree depowering the sail will never be as pure as luffing the wing. However being able to sheet in at the bottom of a wave to carve heel side or sheet in toe side to drive the nose around through the mast base does deliver a different kind of fun in the swell but again riding strapless does allow me to move around the board more like a surfer.

[@themountain59]

Sorry guys but winging looks like Mrs.Poppins on a skateboard....just ridiculous😂

[@tinker7722]

⁰

[@scottklandl488]

Ridiculous. If you have a week vacation and no experience you out them in a sailboat. In 10 minutes they’re sailing.