Winter's Heart By Robert Jordan Makes The Forsaken A Complete Laughingstock Of Incompetent Clowns

[@mikesbookreviews]

Hey guys! Thanks for sticking with me through THE SLOG! Almost there.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@DEFKNIGHT It's an astute observation and I'm certainly not saying you're wrong. But even if I thought this I wouldn't talk about it on the channel because I go to great lengths to avoid talking identity politics, religion, race relations, sexual orientation, etc. because all it does is piss everyone off. I also feel like the internet won't implode if I'm the one person out there that doesn't espouse my political opinions all over everything. Yeah, I have my opinions, I just keep them to myself. That's all.

[@alananimus9145]

Thank you so much. I hate how people just write off the Mat rape and I think it is super disturbing. Something Jordan does is to invert a lot of things. There is a difficult balance between how people actually react to things and what readers expect. I find Mat's rape scene and his reaction to be completely believable. Men being raped by women is a thing that is completely ignored in our society.

[@Linda-pc2qh]

Matt was severely abused to the point of getting Stockholm syndrome. Matt also has a very strong personality. The fact that he married a leader from an oppressive country that singles out a segment of the population to control and use as tools is not surprising to me. We also have to take prophecy and omens into account.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@alananimus9145 Thanks for saying so. I hate the hypocrisy of reaction to this storyline.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@Dave-sk9mn I don't know about the numbers, but the majority of those I've heard say it isn't a big deal are ladies.

[@madisongoodyear5040]

I feel like this review was very fair!! I loved seeing him finally do away with the taint. I love how it now opens up so many possibilities in the future for the men who change saidin. What a gift! And I loved seeing him and Nynaeve finally work TOGETHER. Men and women have been against each other this entire series, so seeing this happen gave me hope.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I think Lan has been giving her that good lovin'. Even since they married she has calmed down quite a bit.

[@Tralala001]

Working my way slowly through the series. And honestly this was my favorite book of the slog. People are actually moving around and doing something productive. Rand is actually taking action by cleansing the power, and hunting down the Asha'man that betrayed him.

[@bartsullivan4866]

I was expecting the worst reading Path of Daggers but there were some parts I really enjoyed characters that were boring as sin suddenly started to get interesting Morgase for one wondering about Balwer is he going to betray them at some point or actually help them. It actually gave the Shiado something to do because before this you didn't really know where they were even at on the map. Egwene's chapters were the slog in Daggers and the boat ladies for sure. You can see that Tiam is going to betray Rand at some point soon in the story I am surprised he hasn't already tried to duel Rand since Rand keeps stumbling into setups and traps.

[@calebmauer1751]

Yeah, I think the Winter's Heart climax is probably my second favorite in the series. Thematically it's extremely significant, since we know that the taint on Saidin happened from a rift between male and female channelers, them finally working together to fix it really marks the beginning of a new age. We see multiple male/female circles, callandor getting used, dark friends and forsaken getting blasted, it's pretty good.

[@madisongoodyear5040]

The scene with Birgette freaking out because Elayne and Rand were doing it made me LAUGH SO HARD 😂😂😂😂

[@mikesbookreviews]

I laughed but also recoiled a bit. I had never thought about those bonded being able to "experience" things that way.

[@dennicaid7682]

@@mikesbookreviews One of my favorite parts in A Crown of Swords, actually, was when Nynaeve was insisting that she and Lan were going to get married immediately on the sea folk ship, and his last real objection was that if they were together as man and wife, Myrelle would be able to feel everything he felt. And Nynaeve replied "Is there any way to make sure that she knows it's me?"

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@dennicaid7682 Ha ha, I had forgotten. Good line.

[@sdube001]

Lol, when I realized 6 people felt what was going on I laughed my ass off. I was working nights alone when this one came out, but had gotten my manager into the series. She went to a book signing the day it was released, and got us both signed copies while I worked. She was also allowed to ask 1 question, and used one of mine. Were the girls slso Ta'veren, since Nyneave started a war when she just asked for a boat? He replied, "Nah, they were just being women." Anyhow, i am a very fast reader, and did my first read while waiting on things at work. My boss's copy was on her desk. I actually left her a post it on this page, telling her to count how many people felt Rand and Elayne.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@sdube001 Ha ha that's fantastic

[@talmanes4589]

There is a method to Cadsuane's madness in regards to her dealings with Rand. She's trying to remind him that for all his power he's still just a person. She's not necessarily any good at it, but she's got the right idea. As for the forsaken, other than Moridin they're all really just pawns. It's kind of hard to see it, but currently Rand's losing the battle in the big picture. The more power Rand gains the further he gets from his humanity, which is what the Dark One really wants. Cleansing the taint on saidin is probably the first thing Rand has done since about book 4-5 that the Dark One didn't want him to do.

[@auhsojonalos7558]

You're one of my favorite booktubers now. Thank you for always being honest. Keep doing you.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thank you so much! Comments like this mean the world to me when I'm making videos that get less than 200 views and I think my channel sucks ha ha

[@LamboLeGlock]

Me too. He and Daniel Greene are booktubers whose opinions and reviews I respect greatly as I keep adding to my list is sci fi mystery and fantasy

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@LamboLeGlock Thank you so much.

[@industrious2807]

Regarding the Forsaken - the fact that they can't work together is one of the points of the series. Look at what an individual Forsaken is capable of - Rahvin had full control over Andor for several books; Aginor, who as Osen'gar did go down like a chump, created the Trollocs and other Darkspawn; Ishamael as Ba'alzamon destroyed Artur Hawkwing's empire and started the Trolloc Wars (among other things). But unlike the protagonists, who also fight and squabble and disrespect each other, they are unable to put aside their grievances to act in concert, while Rand was able to get Nynaeve and Cadsuance to assist him in cleansing the taint during this book - an act which he explicitly could not have done alone. One of the biggest assets that the Light has is that Darkness is divided, and every leader sees each other as a rival to be usurped - earlier in the series, Liandrin tried to take down Moghedien rather than devote her full efforts to assisting the Forsaken's goals, and Moghedien's punishment took that Black sister, who had been a substantial villain before (who sold Egwene to the Seanchan) out of play. Rand has only become as strong as he is because of Asmodean's training - which happened because Lanfear assisted him. It isn't so much that they can't do anything - it's that they can't do anything without trying to or waiting for the others to stab them in the back for it.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I get it, and I understand it, I'm just saying it isn't helping me to build anticipation towards the Last Battle because I feel like it's a 1 seed (Rand) taking on a 16 seed at the moment.

[@jarock-wh9lj]

@@mikesbookreviews I hope you're starting to see that it's a 1 seed that has massive cracks. Rand is undeniably super powerful, but he's also steadily getting crazier and crazier. I've argued for a long time that almost all of his insanity could be just from the ridiculous pressure he is under, but we also need to remember that the taint has been driving him crazy this entire time as well. Sure, the source is cleansed now, but its effects will continue to linger meaning Rand's not suddenly going to revert to the gentle farm boy we saw at the beginning of the series. I wouldn't want him to, but then, that guy I never feared would murder everyone around him either.

[@petrirantavalli859]

@@mikesbookreviews thing is the trope that 'authority equals ass kincking' well it does not as evidenced by the forsaken they have complitely different skills from combat rather it's that they all freaked out and thought "fuuuccck have to do something quick, get your ass there pronto" and since they had no armies of darkfriends to command they had to pop up there by them selves to try and do what ever.

[@paoloalto]

Re-reading the series since Ive first read them in the early 2000's and been out of touch with the community, and Ive got to say, youve hit the hammer right on the head. Most readers expect the forsaken to be superpowerful boss type beings because thats what theyve been used to, but time and time again its been shown that they are insecure beings way past their prime, expecting the world to stay the same because they themselves has stayed the same. Most reviewers I see have their views tainted by what others are saying, I didnt even know about this "slog" thing that has been accepted as fact because its been parroted so much.

[@dagasmundhelland6931]

I just finished this book and I still find the forsaken really scary! They are actually threatening the good side who is at its strongest, with Cadsuanes defenses, men and women linking, multiple angreal and terangreal and Callandor in a circle... And the forsaken are challenging them even when being really uncoordinated and stupid in their methods. They almost killed Rand! And then we have to factor in the potential strenght of all the forsaken if using the true power or what it was called. Also we dont know the powerlevel of Morridin. And then we can just expect the dark ones power to be overwhelming! And the good side just lost the access key to the powerful saidar sangreal!

[@sureworst9538]

Been watching your WoT progress for a while love to see your takes on them. Glad to see your channel growing as you're definitely one of the best booktubers out there; your honesty is refreshing and also just the variety of books and authors on the channel is great! I've commented before about what WoT has in store and i hope you enjoy. Keep up the great work!

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks! I really don't want to become a channel known for one thing, so I try to put in some variety as well as reading what the viewers want me to read (hence the polls).

[@custarddavidson8104]

Mike... I know you sometimes get frustrated at the lack of views on certain video topics but you can NEVER stop this man! I stopped reading WoT during shadow rising but this channel has totally changed me, and has made me fall back in love with reading. This channel can do no wrong in my view, keep it up!

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks, my man. Happy to encourage others the best I can.

[@peterm1925]

The Forsaken are just the mini bosses for Rand to level up. Look forward to seeing more of your reviews, It's fun to see your journey through the series! You've made me say "Just you wait!" so many times with these videos.

[@mikesbookreviews]

That's what I'm hoping for. Love being surprised in a good way.

[@NCSDFL]

I really like the way you review these books. I feel like I'm drinking beer and talking to my friends about these books. Jordan does drift a bit. However, it does encompass quite a bit.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Glad you like them!

[@NaeBlis]

Love hearing your takes on these books my man! Great work on the channel and hope to see your channel keep growing.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Wow! Your "5 reasons you should read WoT" video was one of the reasons I began this series. To hear you say you appreciate my views on it is really cool. Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I look forward to your opinions as the Amazon series gets off the ground.

[@cloudbloom]

Nae'blis gave you a shoutout in his video today and that's why I'm here! Loving your channel dude it's great seeing your perspective as a new reader and I subbed, gonna go back through all your WoT videos👌

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@cloudbloom Wow, did he really? I'm blown away. Also, thanks for jumping on board. So happy to have all the new folks commenting lately.

[@cloudbloom]

@@mikesbookreviews yes check it out! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jp20Yn55drRln5Y

[@BleydTorvall]

@@cloudbloom same reason I found this channel. Very glad I did. Not only are the reviews interesting, but it's refreshing to have someone who actually discusses his opinions with others in the comments too.

[@jasonbooth9858]

Glad you mentioned the final acts of these books. The payoff to how slow and detailed they are is just how Jordan consistently nails “oh shit” moments. Makes the buildup worth it.

[@mikesbookreviews]

That is clearly something Sanderson learned from him because his payoffs in the third act are usually phenomenal.

[@bartsullivan4866]

I liked the ending for sure. I didn't think it was as big a slog.

[@alysondavies]

As a first time reader, I’m loving getting your take on the books as I move on to the next. Ty!

[@mikesbookreviews]

Happy folks are still watching them!

[@nyxian_grid]

I'm here still watching for this exact reason eheh Every time I finish another book. I like you are voicing my rage too!

[@HallyVee]

Know what's crazy? This is literally the first video of yours I found. Not even kidding.

[@madassassin5465]

So glad I found your channel, I love how honest you are.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks! I try my best to never BS folks.

[@anthonyferguson9282]

Found your channel through Nae'blis, and enjoyed the honest critique. I started reading at whatever point it was where Winter's Heart was the first book I had to wait to be released, and I think waiting for a few years really helps tamp down the frustration at some of the sloggy parts. I actually think The Great Hunt was my least favorite book on my first read through, but rereading every book before the next one was released means I'd read the second book like five times by the time I finished the whole series and I have come to appreciate so much in it that you gloss over the first time through. My main thing now is asking people to wait until they've finished to decide what their least favorite book was, and understanding that if they read through it again, it'll probably change. Anyway, after seeing your review for this, my favorite series of all time, and with fantasy being my favorite genre, I would LOVE to see you review my favorite single book of all time, in a genre I don't even normally care for. If you haven't read it yet, please read Ken Follette's "The Pillars of the Earth". It is amazing.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I have read Pillars of the Earth and agree that it is fantastic. I’m sure the wait between books made some of these story decisions even more frustrating. As someone who has been reading Song of Ice & Fire since 2001, I definitely get that.

[@Mister_Sosotris]

Finished this book about a minute ago, and this has been an awesome brain refresher because there was a bunch of stuff in the middle that I couldn’t really follow, haha. I agree about the Mat and Tylin stuff. It’s really uncomfortable. Glad he escaped from her.

[@ashleymccullough4699]

I am someone who found your channel on book 9 review! Really enjoyed your take on I’m also reading them for the first time. I’m about to start crossroads of twilight. Can’t wait to see your review after!

[@LamboLeGlock]

I’m on my second reread right now and the “slog” or slow parts for me really build the world and characters even though sometimes you want to pull your hair out. I will say that there are things that you think are pointless and time wasting during the slog that really come full circle and those elements really make the last chunk of the series ( knife of dreams and the rest) spectacular. I’m very interested to see if you feel the same after the crossroads which admittedly could be more action packed. Honestly just can’t wait to see your reaction to a memory of light.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Well, since others have convinced me to record myself reading the last chapter of AMoL, you just might see it.

[@joshhoehne8281]

Mike's Book Reviews - I'd recommend that you record your reading the last two chapters, since that's where some of the best of the book occurs. The last chapter is fantastic and cathartic, but I'd really like to see the previous chapter reaction as well. Maybe edited some for time... Lol.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@joshhoehne8281 A few have presented that idea to me. I guess they want to see me cry on camera? Not sure. But I will certainly consider it should the opportunity present itself.

[@TheLizardKing752]

I think it was apparent to me at this point that the biggest threat to Rand's team was Rand

[@haughtyturtle5702]

I know these videos are old but I'm reading through TWoT for the first time and it's awesome seeing how your thoughts line up with the feelings I've had while reading. Loving the journey so far as a whole but man.... some of these later books have rough moments.

[@melissayoung1060]

I like hearing peoples different views on these books. If we all had the exact same view point and thoughts, discussions would become boring very quickly. Great job Mike, keep on doing what you're doing...love your videos.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks! For sure, that is the message I want to deliver on this channel; difference of opinion is still okay. In fact, it's great. It generates discussion. I have no idea when this AGREE WITH ME OR ELSE attitude came from.

[@melissayoung1060]

@@mikesbookreviews Let's just say, I strongly disagree with today's society that it is okay to scream and rant (comments) at people that do not agree with your personal view points. If you don't like it ....don't watch it and/or participate in it. We can disagree, have completely different points of view, or beliefs AND still have intelligent, thought stimulating discussions. Without it becoming horrible spamming rants. Differences in thoughts and ideas can become something totally new, or just a cool way to waste some time (hehe). True Options are great to still see, thank you for sharing yours.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@melissayoung1060 Yep. Folks acting like children all the time. I'll never understand it. If someone tells me the book I like "sucks," well that's perfectly fine for them to feel that way. It doesn't change anything for me.

[@Floschi123451]

Thank you for your outstanding content. You are up there with Daniel Greene as my favourite fantasy booktubers! Have a great day and keep up the good work. Kindest regards from Germany!

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks so much!

[@henriktronstad7050]

The Perrin chapters are saved by little guy secretary Balwer! Yeah.

[@aldenwilkins]

Perrin will make a strong comeback. Once he finally accepts who he is. On my re-reads, I skip all Perrin chasing Faile chapters. Makes it much better.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Ha ha sounds like good advice.

[@Sealwithwificonnection]

I'm unashamed I skipped all Faile chasing chapters. Life is too short to make myself follow one of my least favorite characters in fiction, let alone Wheel of Time lol

[@baginamonolog]

This is my plan when I re-read. A shame after her upbringing, and hanging with Aiel, and having knives hidden all over her constantly, she never had a badass moment payoff which could have even slightly redeemed the slog.

[@cloudbloom]

I actually started crying at the end of the first sister ceremony, I thought it was very moving

[@anthonycrayne2835]

What made you cry harder. This or the Eclipse?

[@cloudbloom]

@@anthonycrayne2835 yes

[@mikesbookreviews]

I think my rage hate for Elayne has dampened anything emotional I might feel towards her part of the story.

[@ollieclark3144]

Honestly winters heart is my absolute favourite wheel of time book after two re-reads. Rands bonding, mats adventures in Ebou dar, rand being locked up again and helpless in Far Madding, and the cleansing of the taint. I accept the Perrin and Shaido storylines were week but the Mesema and berilaine storyline really got me here (also yeah mesema is a bit unstable)

[@mikesbookreviews]

Really? I think that's the first I've heard anyone call this one their favorite, but that's really cool. Glad you enjoyed it so much.

[@jeffshinlver]

Hi Mike! I am really enjoying your reviews of these books! I am on my 5th reading of this whole series and have been watching your reviews as I finish them. I agree with you on a lot of your points but will say the series is better to me every I time I read it! It amazes me of all the things that I don't remember every time I read the series. Your reviews are very fun and I really enjoy them!

[@Turvok]

Noticed the desert spear book in your intro. Love the warded man series. Although I liked the first half more then the end Love hearing yours and others first impressions of wheel of time. I'm working through my fourth re read atm. First was as the books each came out.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Demon Cycle is highly underrated, IMO. Though I'm only 60% done with it.

[@Turvok]

@@mikesbookreviews are you doing reviews of it too?

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@Turvok I did the first two, but they didn't get a lot of interest so I stopped.

[@Turvok]

@@mikesbookreviews two different titles for the same book 1 hurt it. Plus I think it never generated a lot of interest but think it will grow over time. As word of mouth spreads. Was a fun read. Especially telling parts of the story from the antagonists perspective.

[@StoneyBlazer420]

As far as the Dragon being slapped around and talked down to, I think Jordan was going for a Jesus type feel. Rand is meant to save the world, but he gets no respect from anyone. The ultimate martyr.

[@tomsativa]

Yup love the metaphors. End of Illusion is soon

[@joshualevine8345]

I also feel like he's created this world where Aes Sedai are at the top of the power pyramid throughout history. Men are naturally subservient to them so he allowed them to treat him as such because it is actually normal and expected. I could be wrong, but I feel like he really wanted to switch the gender roles that we have had in our world throughout history where men are always over women... Think about the way he describes men in here: gossipy, can't keep a secret, illogical and rules by emotions... Those are descriptions a lot of men would use for women. I think he's deliberately trying to create a world where those gender biases are reversed.

[@calebmauer1751]

@@joshualevine8345 Hence also Mat and Tylin's "relationship".

[@donaldcreech7782]

I loved the book! My biggest complaint was that I wish the Toram Riatin character was more developed, and I wish that the swordfight between him and Lan was described. I am sure that would have been so epic!

[@Ulmo90]

Great review, I have to say after a reread that this book is quite good. Besides the first 200 pages, there is actually a lot happening and some great moments with Rand

[@rustywarrior5288]

I've been bingeing your reviews over the last couple of days and have to say that Im impressed by your impartiality - especially with "The Slog". I do have feeling that RJ had a tendency to overwhelming verbosity to try and show people that he had thought of everything as he approached his own end. Never use a single word when a whole paragraph would do. There's also a sense of books 7-9 being like a prolonged "mid game" where pieces are moved around the board, so that come the end game they are all where they are supposed to be. In some ways a 9 book abridged version might be a good idea :) That is not a criticism of RJ the man or the author as I am a big fan of his books. I enjoyed them all (even when I struggled with them) but I also wanted speedy resolutions to past issues. As many others have said - the (inevitable?) re-read brings some of the nuance contained in these long periods where nothing appears to be happening into focus.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I do think being so prepared for this middle portion of the story has helped me approach it with checked expectations. I love Jordan's writing style, I think it's magnificent. I just wish his editor had been an editor first and his wife second.

[@zainelaw2697]

Tuon and mats relationship is actually one of the best parts of the later books

[@mikesbookreviews]

That's great to hear.

[@johnswenson9140]

@@mikesbookreviews I couldn't agree more. I absolutely love those two, without leading comments or spoilers I personally feel like the relationship is far more dynamic and leads to some really fun moments. It also feels like it has more to do with the story than deciding that all these women suddenly love Rand and want to share him. Side note, much love for the BSG The Plan shoutout xD love it!!!!

[@coreywhite6932]

Honestly man, I think we ALL have our own head cannon as it pertains to the names of all people and places. I feel that we would all pronounce names wrong according to anyone else. Absolutely no worries about it. Great videos. Glad you're enjoying the series

[@mikesbookreviews]

I am. I know some think I’m overly critical but that’s what a review is. It’s basically nitpicking. I’m having a great time with the series or I wouldn’t current be on book 12.

[@Mazecraft]

Rand's arc in this one saved the book for me altogether. Also I really liked the Egwene story and the intrigue in the tower. I'm only in book 5 of my reread since a decade ago so I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot.

[@Mazecraft]

Also, unpopular opinion but I think The Gathering Storm is the worst book in the entire series not because nothing happens (I'm looking at you 'Daggers) but other reasons.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I liked the Tower split at first, I just feel it has went on a couple books too long by this point. Ready for that resolution.

[@Mazecraft]

@@mikesbookreviews Yeah I remember my first read through getting really mad at how long all that was going on. I think by this point in the story though, Egwene had replaced Perrin as one of my favorite characters but I liked how she was handling the rebel faction. As far as the crap inside the tower, I started getting more interested when the hunt for the black ajah began. I think its a great story line but when your waiting for something else to happen instead it is frustrating.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@Mazecraft These are the kinds of things that I can see how they'd be better in a re-read knowing how they resolve and looking for hints.

[@angelcamacho217]

Hi Mike. Love your channel. Don't worry about your favorites. They will have their moments to shine. I can promise you that!

[@mikesbookreviews]

I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for watching!

[@melissayoung1060]

I remember reading the books as they came out. So excited with each release to read about my favorite characters, and at the end of the books (slog books) that nothing progressed. Waiting 2-3 years for a book and felling like welp, no answers there, my favorite isn't even in the book, or why did they suddenly become indecisive almost whiny people. You just can't not find out what happens after so many years waiting on find out how it ends, so you wait for the next...hoping for more. Well, that was my feelings on my first read through with the slog.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I definitely understand that. I waited 5 years for A Feast For Crows to come out and then when it did, it didn't have Jon, Tyrion, or Daenerys in it. I was PISSED. And I didn't even realize it would be ANOTHER 6 years after that before the next book would come out.

[@Ramseyreadsandreviews]

Yeah me too.

[@catrionainglis5483]

So I only just finished this one and came back to watch your review because I always love watching you talk about the series. I actually really enjoyed this one way more than the previous two. I think it helped that Egwene wasn't in it at all I really can't deal with her since she became Amyrlin (I don't get why being given a shawl suddenly makes her think she's the cleverest person ever). I really enjoyed Matt's sections in the book despite the terrible relationship going on and I didn't mind Perrin's bit either I'm pretty invested in finding out what's happening with Masema I do not trust him one bit, plus I really enjoyed Rand's arc and min is my favourite of the women so lots of her was nice

[@mikesbookreviews]

Just wait. The Egwene content goes to 11 soon.

[@catrionainglis5483]

@@mikesbookreviews it's a shame because I liked her when she was with the Aiel but at this point I'm almost hoping Elida wins the fight and she goes back to being accepted which is saying something...

[@robpaul7544]

Wowsers, that was one complete book report! A+ 👍 I thought I dropped the series around book 8, but I actually remember Mat and his new flame together so it must have been book 10.. Keep m coming!

[@davidcarter6659]

Wait, you made it through the slog than stopped? You should finish the series, make that time worth while. That's like 7000 pages for nothing if you don't.

[@robpaul7544]

@@davidcarter6659 I was reading them when they came out so didn't know that was 'the slog' 🤣 just seemed like all the rest would follow the trend, so .. yeah.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Man, you made it through this stretch and didn't finish? That feels like a robbery.

[@davidcarter6659]

@@robpaul7544 strongly recommend finishing, it'll be worth it. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree lol.

[@robpaul7544]

I am planning on starting a reread, soonish. Currently rereading Malazan though, and one big reread at a time is enough 😅 But.. one day 🙏

[@idealsAREisomorphic]

Bro, judging from your comments on Taim being one of the forsaken or Demandred at this point when it’s explicitly revealed that orders to kill Rand came from Taim AND Demandred AND Morridin INDEPENDENTLY, your little comment on Matt “suddenly knowing how to tie people up” when he explicitly states that tying Tailin taught him, not even catching that it was Fein who wrote the letter, one could tell you weren’t really paying attention. Can’t blame you honestly, the slog is in full swing.

[@icholas1527]

Upon multiple reads of the series this book is actually one of my favourites.

[@tycel2004]

I am absolutely loving going along with your review I'm a reading Crossroads of twilight right now

[@mikesbookreviews]

We are in the home stretch now.

[@Themdh1000]

In regards to the battle around the cleansing, Elsa, while a darkfriend, is also under the effects of whatever compulsion Verin used on the captive Aes Sedai earlier in the series

[@mikesbookreviews]

Yeah, it was just funny. Like getting into a bar fight while already hammered.

[@chrissleeping65]

I just realized that if Birgitte Silverbow is getting drunk on Oosquai with Min and Aviendha while Rand and Elayne are getting busy, doesn't that mean that almost certainly Elayne was drunk too. She has the Warder bond with Birgitte and the first sister bond with Aviendha and both of them are getting black out drunk while Elayne is with Rand. 🥴

[@Newt5996]

Okay so with Crossroads of Twilight there are two things that mainly allowed me to enjoy it: 1. It’s exploring just how the cleansing of the taint is felt by the world, zooming out to the whole world and 2. Robert Jordan is using Crossroads to bring everything into focus, realizing that he was getting close to the end and had kind of made a mess

[@mikesbookreviews]

I'm treating it as the prelude to the final act. Getting all of his ducks in a row, so to speak.

[@narutobullock]

Mat Cauthon, emancipater, lady killer, mentor, and gambler. The MVP of the wheel of time.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Rape survivor.

[@sdube001]

I've said it before regarding the upcoming tv series. If they do Mat well, the young man playing him will be a megastar. Mat is that popular.

[@danhathaway7984]

He has a rather slow start but from The Dragon Reborn-on he is hands-down the best character

[@idealsAREisomorphic]

I didn’t expect Rand to have a five-some.

[@ganondorf797]

First read through, and I'm finding Noal *really* suspicious. Don't spoil, I'm just putting that there to check on later.

[@ganondorf797]

Well I was wrong ! Not a Darkfriend.

[@jarock-wh9lj]

Hey Mike. I just want to tell you how much I enjoy the honesty of your reviews. You do not pander. Your reactions feel 100% real and I love that. I don't always agree with you, but that doesn't make your reactions less valid. In terms of world impact, the male half of the source being cleansed is the single biggest event since the breaking to this point. I love this scene and I love how Rand works with the few people he still trusts despite his encroaching insanity to pull this off. I feel you miss the point on the Forsaken when you compare the to Benny Hill. Yes, they are absolutely horrible at working together. That is 100% intended. It is a point Jordan was trying to make, i.e. truly evil people cannot work together. They will continually try to stab each other in the back. This does not take away from just how individually powerful and threatening each is on their own. You could argue that much of Rand's success is only allowed because the Forsaken cannot work together. Even when forced, it usually goes wrong. Try your best to enjoy the good parts of CoT. They are there, even if it is my least favorite book in the WoT.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks! I swore when I started this channel I was always going to be honest with my criticism. I’ve seen some booktubers that give everything WoT 5 stars and say how amazing everything is and give no reasoning why except that they’re trying to get those easy subscribers. My comparison of the Forsaken to Benny Hill or the 3 Stooges is how I feel right now. They could get on the same page and be badasses in the next 5 books. I’m certainly not saying they can’t regroup and come together and be a threat. Just right now when Rand goes against one I’m not worried for him.

[@mikepicioli1100]

Yes, after several rereads its rough just hearing the word Shiado. At least for me, the ending is the books redemption. Big picture, the cleansing of the taint (lol) is Huge! I agree the forsaken are petulant children, and because they do not work well together, we get some stooges antics. Just one more then your into the Sando! Can't wait to hear your thoughts on his take. Also I only asked you once if you were if the bood, and my eyes were lowered for it 😔

[@mikesbookreviews]

When I see the word "Sevanna" I want to kick puppies. And, yes, I chuckled every time I read the word "taint." Because I am 12.

[@williamstokes3078]

The cleansing made the whole books worth it to me but learning who Cyndane was in the cleansing was one of my favorite moments. Jordan may have revealed who she was before then and I missed it till that moment but it was so great.

[@TomeTraveler]

This is the first video of yours I've watched (thanks for sending me, Nae'blis!) and I have to agree with many others, this part of the series becomes something of a slog, at least the first time through. Winter's Heart was where I stopped reading midway through and resolved to just leave things until the full series was finished. I have since finished the series, and three rereads, and I'll give the middle books this: it's not quite such a slog on the next times through. And I'll pitch in with what others have told you: Knife of Dreams is where the payoff for all the earlier stuff begins happening. Thanks for the reviews! I'll be going back to catch up on the earlier ones, and will be sure to catch the forthcoming.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Most have told me this stretch isn’t so rough on a re-read and I can certainly see that. I didn’t care for the first Red Rising but after I kept going and truly fell in love with the series I enjoyed the hell out of it in a re-read.

[@KnotGypsy]

Yes, we can disagree and still get along - I don't always agree with your opinions regarding the Wheel of Time, but I do love your reviews. In fact, it is the differences of opinion that encourage me to see my favorite series from a different perspective and gives me food for thought. Keep up the good work.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Absolutely. I have people tell me that they hated books that I love and vice versa. Nothing is more subjective than a book, IMO. And though I have what I think is constructive criticism of these books, know that the good vastly outweighs the bad. I'm still having a great time with the Wheel.

[@DavidHall-gr3ml]

It's supposed to upset you how often he's talked down to. The society has largely been a matriarch since saidin was tainted. It's the reverse of our society, or at least our society 50ish years ago.

[@TheJreesing]

@@mikesbookreviews I kinda don't get why you think Rand is above reproach because he is the dragon. He is making mistakes. The entire box situation could have been prevented if only he listen to the women around him. By now you should understand the main theme is that men and women should work together. He refuse to listen to the women around him! And yes the women are also wrong to try to lead him on the lease but just because Rand is the main character he is not always right.

[@Sealwithwificonnection]

@@TheJreesing considering he can burn anyone that disagrees with him to a crisp, it does get incredibly frustrating. The only reason those women are allowed to slap him around is because he CHOOSES not to put them in their place. Maybe if they approached him more humbly instead of being know-it-alls, I could get behind what you're saying but they don't.

[@shawnn7502]

@@TheJreesing Sorry. Being wrong, as every character is wrong at some point, doesn't mean he deserves to be slapped. The women's only suggestion was to leave without dealing with the Ashaman. Doing so would leave two (probably three in Rand's mind) very dangerous male channelers on the loose, to attack him and Min again at their choosing. Rand was right to refuse to do that. Plus, he wasn't even slapped for being wrong. He was slapped for swearing. The women are bullies in this world, and Cadsuane is the absolute worst. But her and Rand do eventually reach an understanding.

[@ararararagisan36]

I know this is an 1 year old video, but I just finished Winter's Heart last night. For me it was probably the best WoT book so far because I actually felt there was a build up to something in most of the book ( build up to Mat escaping and Rand cleansing Saidin). Im with you on the Perrin (I'm on the Shaido hate train since the beginning) and Elayne chapters since I found no interest in any of what it was happening really until Elayne met the borderlands and there was political manoeuvring by both sides, I found myself interested. As for Mat I think his whole storyline this book could have been shorter, but I feel like that's been an issue for every book so far (for every chapter). The Seanchan civilians coming and the management of Ebou Dar by the Seanchan and how they operate had me interested enough to keep going, but what I really noticed is that RJ was setting things up for Mat's escape from the sul'dam back in book 3(that now know that they can channel) and Egeanin. Honestly RJ can be very unpredictable so I always expected something to go wrong there, so there was a lot of suspense throughout that scene. As for the final act, I loved it. I already knew that the forsaken are stupid so them failing didn't bother me (I see what you mean about the Final Battle, I will see how it is when I get there) but the changing of PoV really made the whole act more exciting (I really want more of that). As a final thing I got to say I really like wierd and interesting visuals so Elayne's and Aviendha's sister bond, the 3-way bonding and the cleansing of Saidin were really awesome scenes that elevated this book. Overall since I was more enjoyed than frustrated I really liked book 9

[@ararararagisan36]

Oh I forgot one thing. As for the people yelling and talking down to Rand I really dislike it as well, but mostly because I hate the people that do that, like other Aes Sedai and not because he is supposed to be the biggest motherfucker out there. Im with Cadsuane and Sorilea (as much as I dislike their attitudes) on the 'strong not hard' and I think that even though Rand in the jail cell was a cool scene, him closing up his emotions even more is a big negative. So even though I hate Cadsuane's methods and attitude I think that Rand need to learn something here (and become less of a dick towards people).

[@EtchAGetch]

Also, in response to "The Slog". I'm doing my first reread of the series after reading the books as soon as they came out. The first time you read it, it's like chugging beers at a college party: You want more and more and just want to be drunk off of it. Naturally, it's disappointing when the beer is running low or all they have is seltzers to drink (read: Perrin or Luca's chapters). On the reread, though, it's like sipping wine and you just enjoy each sip just for the flavor, knowing you have more wine to come and you're there just to enjoy the flavor. I recall being frustrated with the books on my first read, specifically CoT, but have actually been rather surprised at how it hasn't been as bad as I feared second time around. I've just finished WH, and excluding the first few Perrin chapters, it was actually a good read that I generally didn't want to stop reading. As you accurately stated, parts of FoH were just as bad as these books (I recall rereading FoH and thinking that if this book is /this/ slow, how bad is The Slog going to be?). Some of it is just enjoying being with these characters again, even if you're just sitting around doing nothing. The best way to look at the slog is to know that it /will/ all end, that the last books /will/ tie it all together and that you should try to sit back and enjoy it as much as you can and not want to rush through it. Drink it in like fine wine and not like light beer, and you enjoy it better. Of course, the next book for me is CoT and the finest Andorian wine in the world might not make it bearable.

[@mikesbookreviews]

This is an analogy I can get behind.

[@jacobshapiro5074]

something that really goes unnoticed for me with WOT is its sense of humor. there are moments that i’ll laugh and those are only possible because of this crazy detailed world jordan has crafted.

[@mattronimus]

I kind of like that the forsaken were awed by the power, but yeah, they are not very threatening. I've also noticed that no main characters have died. As someone who likes happy endings that's cool, but this does seem like fantasy for kids a bit. Don't get me wrong i love it and it's consumed my life for the last month or so, But the plot armor seems impenetrable.

[@InnkeeperAnas]

Somehow the circus scenes are not as bad when you listen to the audiobooks. I remember when I first read the books that I was indifferent to Valan Luca but Michael Kramer just brings out the best in these characters. Listening to the audiobooks as a ‘reread’ does give a different flavor and make the slog less apparent and more bearable. Great reviews btw, looking forward to the next

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks! I want to fire Valan Luca into the sun.

[@redblue3787]

Just finished Winter's Heart a few minutes ago. Wow, the first 200 pages took me weeks to go through, but the rest picked up like a boulder down a hill. I genuinely hate Perrin chapters now haha, but Elayne is growing on me. I think one of my biggest problems with the power puff girls was how OP they were and unstoppable, but Elayne's facing some real challenges now and I'm starting to hate her less, kind of like how Mat went from one of my least favorites to my second favorite due to his own struggles. I know Rand is OP, but the fact that he is slowly going insane(?) AND how often people try killing him makes up for that, so he's still my favorite POV. You've really rekindled my interest in the series Mike and its good to listen to the theories and ideas of another reader as we journey through the turning of the Wheel, but I'm aiming to catch up with you since I'm a few behind. Keep up the reviews and thanks!

[@dominicaudy8479]

The issue with the “slog” for me is all in the execution and was made worse by having to plan a series of that sheer scope (which is a bit insane), while continuing to offer volumes with a satisfying ending each time. The slog effect in itself was totally deliberate in the story itself, but the readers were not supposed to get bored, that’s where Jordan wasn’t entirely successful with that mid series arc.. Jordan wanted everything to get bogged down and the Wheel to almost come to a grinding halt. This whole chaos when one player is sitting around, another is straying and picking up stragglers and followers, another is faltering and held back, some are returning to mundane political pursuits as if the Last Battle wasn’t around the corner, and the Aes Sedai have basically written themselves out of the world’s affairs by waging a faction war was intentional. Some of it is really good, some of it is pretty bad. Never been a big fan of the Shaido either, despite my deep love for this series (and as an even bigger fan of Dune, I find the “less interesting Fremen” comment all too accurate). The concept of a slog is interesting, and maybe even daring in a work so long, but when you have so many story arcs ongoing, how do you make them start to stall and getting tied into a knot without spending a ton of pages executing this, and even more to the point, how do you execute an arc like that while keeping the readers interested, frustrated with some of the stalling and the decisions of the characters certainly, but not bored or angry. Those books were harder to like when we had to wait years between them, and as you’ve already guessed they get better on rereads when you know the relevance of everything, even if Sanderson didn’t always manage to give pay off to many seeds Jordan had planted in the mid books, alas).

[@mndrew1]

Jordan handles relationships like Eddings did in his series'. I figure it stands out as weird when you forget that in both universes, Fate is an active force taking a direct hand in peoples lives.

[@sjkrum320]

I know what you mean about the forsaken bring fools. However, keep in mind there are a couple of them you haven't seen do much. Yes, I did laugh because I know a huge secret and I can't wait for you to reach the payoff. The last 4 books are the final act and as you've said, Jordan does great on the final act. I look forward to all your reviews. It's so much fun!

[@mikesbookreviews]

Really looking forward to the last 4 books.

[@Conquering_fear89]

I just finished this book and have been struggling the last few books... but i push through because i want to watch your reviews, and this was my favorite review😂😂😂 I also dont understand how people are toen with the matt situation😮...it's tragic

[@dfw-k6z]

I finished book 9 yesterday. I tried and quit this book at least 3 times over the last couple of years. Each time it was in a Perrin or Elaine chapter. Finding out that this is the slog actually made it easier for me to finish, because I know it's it's not just me, and because it's going to be a lot better after book 10.

[@kissia358]

I love Winter's Heart ✌🏻

[@jontiruell1934]

Strange but this was actually one of my favourites since Shadow Rising, just finished it and loved it still yet to get brought down by the slog. Maybe Crossroads will break me 😅

[@Dragonsworn864]

same

[@admd8765]

2 years late… But I will not let Crossroads break me!

[@sethevans5594]

I pretty much agree with you on all major points. I thought Mat’s section and Rand in Far Madding were more interesting than anything in book 8, and the ending is very good. Now get through #10 and then enjoy as things get exciting again in 11-14!

[@mikesbookreviews]

Far Madding was vastly superior to anything in PoD.

[@jacobshapiro5074]

this whole fandom spends like half of this series hating on my girl elayne please she’s trying her best ❤❤❤

[@TeaKay_421]

Agree with your take, for the most part. I don’t think these are a slog, but do think Jordan often slogs in places where he needed to move. CS Lewis helped Tolkien cut the worthless fluff and move the story. Jordan needed this.

[@isthisajojoreference]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention not getting to see the fight between Lan and the sword master

[@jasonm8051]

100% with you on the Elaine Perrin Faile and the Shaido. Still loving the reviews series.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@davidl4953]

I enjoyed this book a lot. Great review, I love your content!

[@galacticjoey6350]

Just finished winter's heart. The first half was...once we get to far madding, I LOVED it. I think the slog is overblown. Fires of heaven was boring IMO. I really enjoyed this book .I was so worried going in that it would be a chore to read through. I actually really liked this book.

[@mikesbookreviews]

As much as I love the fandom, I wish they'd stop telling folks that 3-4 middle books are super slow. I feel like it chases off potential new readers.

[@galacticjoey6350]

@@mikesbookreviews agreed. I everyone has their own tastes. I do see your point that maybe if having to wait years for the next book to come out, it would be a let down. But reading marathoning all books back to back like I am now , I actually liked winter's heart. Just started crossroads , we will see what I think of that one!

[@jan-willemvandijk3850]

Fires of Heaven was my first one somehow and then I went to Eye of the World, which was super slow for me with the traveling and singing and fluting for room and board. Zzzzzz

[@Mac-nx5xf]

My library rental expired with 2 hrs left and I just decided to watch this review instead of finishing. Super slog. Thanks for your breakdowns! Excited to move through the Slog and get back into the good stuff.

[@cloudbloom]

There's a moment with perrin later that gives me goosebumps every time, I'm on my 4th read (finally checking out the audio books for this round and they are awesome I never listen to books so this has been a great way to go through the books again) and I can't wait to see what you think of perrins part at that point. I think it's in crossroads of twilight so you still have a bit before you get there but it's great

[@mikesbookreviews]

Finished the CoT prologue last night. 96 pages. Man.

[@beaglesgamesguitars2271]

Agree with you on all points so far. First read through I almost gave up, because I felt like certain chapters (Elayne and Egwene) were just jabbering. My favorite character, Perrin, also took the bench for so long that I lost interest. I honestly hated reading Rand chapters. I just thought he was a douche. Second read through has made me understand the incredible amount of pressure he has on his shoulders. On your second read through, after you’ve accepted the slog for what it is, you start to see a more full picture and what Jordon is doing. Dude is descriptive as hell, and could easily progress the plot by just writing a sentence about it(used your joke, sorry.)

[@mikesbookreviews]

I've felt that way about Rand being under incredible pressure, so he has never bothered me. Especially considering he has a looney toon in his head. I hate what has happened to Perrin and Elayne is just...ugh.

[@beaglesgamesguitars2271]

@@mikesbookreviews As you've been told, Perin makes a return. I never really liked Elayne starting around book 7 or 8, especially whenever she began her quest to conquer Andor. When I actually read (not audible) book 9, Elayne chapters made my eyes cross and I began to drift.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@beaglesgamesguitars2271 I keep telling myself there is a reason Jordan is focusing on her so much but I'm starting to not be so sure.

[@arslangungil2923]

I don’t know. I liked this way more than Path of Daggers, more than Lord of Chaos too. And more than Fires of Heaven. My first read btw. Just finished like 15 minutes ago. Ending as epic as Dumai’s Wells.

[@Ramseyreadsandreviews]

Good review. Had me laughing a bit. I had the same thought about Taim.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I mean, I know I wasn't going out on a limb there, but...

[@revan0890]

I only learned this really recently, but Noal has been seen before. You have to know to look for him by his description.

[@mikesbookreviews]

🤔🤔🤔

[@smaug1234]

id say 3 out of 5 is a good number for the book. So there is a major series changing thing that happened in this one, what effects do you expect this to have? I hope the show has a contrast between Lan and nyneaves faces as the girls tell rand their feelings, love the idea of the shock on her face and the smile on his. What ever side you are on with the mat in pink ribbons thing, i hope the show does it just as divisive, I got in an Internet fight on a different channel speaking what side and why i was on :)

[@mikesbookreviews]

My whole thing is the double standard. Say it had been a King in Ebou Dar doing this to one of the Supergirls. Folks would be flipping out. But it's a guy who is a ladies man and then it's "hilarious." I just don't get it. Also, I hate to be Mr. Negative, but I don't think the show gets this far. I have very little faith in it.

[@smaug1234]

@@mikesbookreviews i expect the show will be very different tbh, play up the horror aspects, make it a raunchy nude-fest with some comedy . Some will lose there minds, but if it makes you laugh and gives you something to think about now and then it may do ok.

[@BenceFerdinandy]

Dumai's Well is I think the most epic ending, the cleansing is not bad, but Dumai's Well is much better I think :)

[@mikesbookreviews]

Agree

[@JerodimusPrime]

I actually loved this book. I found Lord of Chaos harder to read.

[@constitutionallyfree6035]

First time I found your channel. Funny it came true.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thanks for checking things out.

[@natural0dice346]

FYI Alana tries to slap him, but fails, as Rand stops her

[@madisongoodyear5040]

I don’t think this is spoilery... but in the last battle basically the Forsaken pull some pretty smart moves that leaves you thinking “why didn’t they do stuff like that all along?”

[@mikesbookreviews]

I can see that being a problem in retrospect.

[@Catrell]

This may be my favorite book of WoT, solely for the Cleansing.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I love that everyone has mostly a different favorite in this series.

[@cloudbloom]

The cleansing with the Choeden Kal was absolutely amazing, one of my favorite moments in the series

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@cloudbloom It really was and I let my rant about how clownish the Forsaken are derail from that. Great moment.

[@revan0890]

How'd I miss this? Well I'm watching it now.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Hope you enjoyed it.

[@sabeelm9]

7:00 Sevanna died in this book? I don't remember this

[@mikesbookreviews]

My good ol' southern draw at it's best. "although I didn't get to see Sevanna die a fiery death."

[@sabeelm9]

@@mikesbookreviews ooh I see. No worries, I'm just glad I didn't miss something important!

[@blakeb1555]

I’ll never understood why Rand let his opportunity for a super hot four way pass him by

[@berentook]

I agree i think this book is much better than path of daggers.

[@mikesbookreviews]

It really wasn't that hard, tbh. At least for me.

[@abcarlson3293]

Noal is the MAN! You'll see...but you wont see everything...

[@mikesbookreviews]

🤔 interesting...

[@sebastien160]

Great video mate...

[@mikesbookreviews]

Thank you, sir.

[@hansolav5924]

it's that 'can't kill women' thing. they're cocky. but also, it's good training for him. the longer he can stand that sort of treatment without putting the fear of the Dragon in people, the better. :)

[@mikesbookreviews]

This is the first take on that subject I can get behind.

[@joedivision7148]

Dude, it's worth getting through CoT to get to Knife of Dreams. but Crossroads has some pretty good scenes. I enjoyed it more on my re-read.

[@mikesbookreviews]

With everything that has been said about CoT I expected worse. Is it slow? Yeah. But so was Path of Daggers. I have 120 pages left and don't see what makes it anything worse than that book expect that there is no battle in it.

[@benwayman2478]

i actually loved this book and i did not expect to at all after picking it up right after the path of daggers and not liking that book

[@Kevinbaconator_]

Honestly enjoyed this book after the initial perrin shaido section. As for the slog I would say there isn't a definitive massive slow section, but 6-9 definitely have 200-300 pages of slow stuff each, which is very discouraging. Im about to start 10 but am on a good note from 9. We'll see how 10 goes...

[@solomonkenji5611]

Watch Mike love book 10. Love your reviews. I think I agree with nearly everything you've said about this series.

[@mikesbookreviews]

Ha ha, I don't even know how that would be possible at this point.