StarCraft 2 Low APM Challenge 2022! Protoss Rank Up Guide - Silver & Gold (Ep. 2)

[@cappm4201]

I love these LAPM series. I've been into sc since BW and have been playing on and off over the years, and these vids are what draws me back in every time. I'm terrible, but I'm old and slow , so I'm content dwelling in the metal leagues.

[@JuanSoloPlays]

same here. This series shows that even being older, knowing your mechanics you can achieve higher leagues.

[@frankmc8355]

"I have so many probes! how did this happen?" Did your parents never have the "pylons and the nexi" discussion with you as a child...

[@WolfGangDealers]

I too wonder how onions grow their layers. This is very important.

[@lloydjamieson2143]

Just eat the damm onion.

[@jerubaal101]

Onions have layers because, as they grow, a new layer sprouts from the inner seed, and the outer layers die off.

[@xTobsecretx]

Winter getting tangled in his own metaphors is so me, it’s hilarious

[@MrRubixscube]

hi winter. i don't have a question. i just want to say that after years of watching your content and getting to understand SC2 more and more, this new low APM series made me get into the game for real. i chose protoss because i like their design and their mechanics, and i'm having surprinsingly better results than i would've expected. it's definitely easier to watch than to play, but i'm getting the hang of it. it's absolutely a great game, you're absolutely a great teacher, and all the induced stress is worth it when i'm being told by a zerg who failed an all-in that protoss is op.

[@dizastro5437]

Thinking man's race, even if thought is sometimes a multi-thread...

[@caleroification]

Entaro Adun!

[@noblephoenix6151]

white ra and grubbie were my two protos favorites back in the day.

[@tonichopper2170]

I liked white ra but I'm more a wc3 grubbie fan I also enjoy his heros of the storm work

[@cbuckington2933]

1:51:30 I got called out while programming, using you as a fancy background noise... hahaha

[@WhoTheLoL]

Primary reasons why you get Armor over Shields most of the time are because the frontline units have more health than shields, but also because most Protoss ground units start with a point of armor. So, against a marine that does 6 damage: - when shield is upgraded from 0 to 1, damage taken drops from 6 to 5, which is 1/6 = ~17% decrease - when armor is upgraded from 1 to 2, damage taken drops from 5 to 4, which is 1/5 = 20% decrease Looking at it from a different perspective, when a 0/0 marine (6 dmg) is shooting at a zealot: - if zealot has 0 upgrades, it's 9 shots to zero shields and 20 shots to zero health, 29 shots total. - if zealot has +1 shields, it's 10 shots to zero shields and 20 shots to zero health, 30 shots total. - if zealot has +1 armor, it's 9 shots to zero shields and 25 shots to zero health, 34 shots total. This becomes even dumber with Guardian Shield. In the same scenario (a 0/0 marine (6 dmg) is shooting at a zealot) with Guardian Shield: - if zealot has 0 upgrades, it's 13 shots to zero shields and 34 shots to zero health, 47 shots total. - if zealot has +1 shields, it's 17 shots to zero shields and 34 shots to zero health, 51 shots total. - if zealot has +1 armor, it's 13 shots to zero shields and 50 shots to zero health, 63 shots total. You might say "yeah but this is because Zealots have more HP". Okay, let's take a stalker (80/80 hp/shields) instead of a zealot for that last list. A 0/0 marine (6 dmg) is shooting at a Stalker with Guardian Shield: - if stalker has 0 upgrades, it's 20 shots to zero shields and 27 shots to zero health, 47 shots total. - if stalker has +1 shields, it's 27 shots to zero shields and 27 shots to zero health, 54 shots total. - if stalker has +1 armor, it's 20 shots to zero shields and 40 shots to zero health, 60 shots total. Add the fact that Armor is overall twice as cheap on level 1.... you get the idea.

[@hughspector1115]

Love the series, your apm during main gameplay is around 100 and then during the end it tanks when the game is won and it’s just cleaning up leading to the average being much lower though. White ra voice is amazing.

[@spartachris2451]

The APM is recorded at the time of game loss. Him staying in the game isn't dumping the APM at the end after the GG

[@beerasaurus]

I like how he tried to hide the mass overseers in shame.

[@potatoeOnRooftop]

Always come back to SC2 and you winter. I deeply love the content. Thanks man!

[@xTobsecretx]

“Maybe not for people who wanna use these episodes as background noise?” It’s me, he’s talking about me!

[@FonderTomato13]

Great video. I've been using Vibe's B2GM but stuck at gold. These little tricks like 3 prong attack with warp prism, along with harassment of chargelots have been doing great so far. Was able to "starve" / destroy the entire base of a skytoss opponent, warp prisim with skytoss, left their back door open too much.

[@aidangumby]

Thanks for the awesome advice Winter! Even when it doesn't translate into magically transforming me into a master, it helps understand the game more :) Question. Why templar instead of dark templar to create archons? Be well and be chill.

[@JuanSoloPlays]

you usually use archon as gas sink in your composition. high templer cost 50/150, dts 125/125. using high templar for archons leaves mins for zealots. also high tempar archons cost 50 ressources less compared to dt ones

[@aidangumby]

@@JuanSoloPlays Ahhh makes sense. Thank you!

[@WizardyDylan]

you have sold me on the whitera announcer, i love how he gasses me up with every line

[@ryder8646]

I like the "MEENurals" related announcements

[@Se7eNiToS]

Thank you for making my day (and my games ) a little bit better!

[@dizastro5437]

Lol. Some fracker on Twitch said Winter is the Bob Ross of SC. Involuntarily spit my mouth juices in laughter. So true. New haircuts 2022!

[@TheProswagonist]

Isn't a low apm protoss challenge just playing protoss?

[@lifenote1943]

damn.

[@harryrs.a2736]

💀💀💀

[@damedley75]

2:09:00 Chapter labels so helpful! Thanks, Jimmy and Team Winter!

[@ynkybomber]

when you play it seems like an easy Sunday drive. when I play it seems like I am driving a formula 1 race with 3 tires

[@JuanSoloPlays]

patience. it takes lots of practice. its like picking up the gitar once a month and expecting to play like hendrix

[@chrisavelino2201]

Winter these videos are so much fun! I wish you did more of these

[@MrAndromedean]

yeah, my Protoss isn't moving in leaps and bounds like that. i sure hope I find answers to my many questions in the later installments of this series. Still baffled by PvP when the opponent goes skytoss. And definitely there are other questions and scenarios I can't really articulate yet.

[@Hotshotben]

Benwa is the correct pronounciation! Thanks for answering

[@polygondwanaland8390]

"Must be a bug" "OH wait that's your whole race" lmao

[@dizastro5437]

Correct response...im not zerg

[@Vardpo]

a question for the next protoss video: what is the right amount of probes after 3th expantion?

[@Tanus912]

60-66

[@MaybeTiberius]

something i really need to put more effort in is, spreading buildings more on protoss. ''yeah just build it all in your main, you have the space'' and then the opponent sneaks into your main in any shape or form, quickly kills 1 or 2 pylons and your ENTIRE production is dead.

[@ryuranzou]

Protoss might be lower apm, but I feel stressed out with force field placement and casters and all that stuff. I like zerg the most though and I'm terrible at the game :P

[@JuanSoloPlays]

you can ignore storm and forcefield nonsense in the lower leagues. once you feel more confident you can start using them more and more. in maxed out engagements against marines or hydras, one or two stroms really work wonders

[@mercedescolomar1]

Ty winter - these guides are great!

[@aalagerwaard]

@WinterStarcraft I'm a new player this year (protoss) all due to your videos :) and I've attempted to follow this macro strategy... I'm getting wrecked on ladder mostly by constant early harass.. marine drops.. probes blocking my natural... lings flooding in before I can even attempt walling off.. it has been a disaster.. maybe I'm just placed too high and I need to leave the league silver 1. I'm 7-20 at this point Question: Is there any special way to stop sentry's from moving too far forward in the blob of the army? I'm finding I use the protection spell and then they get killed early because they stray ahead of my longer ranged units and get attacked before I get their value

[@Caccac40]

You should have zealots in your army and therefore the sentries are behind. Also if you follow basic build orders well for the first 4-5min it is surprising that you get wrecked early game in silver. Are you following standard safe builds?

[@fleskiss]

Try the No depot challenge. You are only allowed to make command centers for supplies.

[@AlienInSider]

Protos in silver 1 is ok 25 APM if you know what to do a curious fun fact

[@mattcat83]

The speed at which the camera jumps around is a bit disorienting. I hotkeyed my camera controls to Alt+WASD for the arrow keys. I find it much more intuitive and faster than using the mouse scroll, which I set to slow. I'm terrible at the game and only average about 60 APM, but I think which hotkey configurations would be ideal for slower people may be quite different than what the pros do.

[@emiliorubio1797]

I love how archonts are always the hero unit that kills 10-20 stuff, OP

[@QuasselQuokka]

splash damage is hell of a drug

[@alechickmott9132]

a question for the next protoss video: is there a way to get a protoss ground army to stop attacking buildings/assimilators etc when they attack toward a base and the opponents army show up? I feel like i'm using alot of engagements in low plat because half of my army ignores their army?

[@Princip666]

Move closer to the enemy maybe?

[@TopNotchChampion]

Ahhh when the opponent comes you have to readjust your army to theirs. They are going to reposition their army in the best way to defeat yours, even if it means sacrificing some buildings. You have to make a decision: kill the base and run, kill the base then fight, or ignore the base and focus on the enemy. Position your army according to your decision. For example: Kill the base and run: There are usually 2-3 exits to one base. Position your army in a place that can still hit the base, but leads to an exit that is furthest away from their army. As soon as you accomplish your goal, run away. Bases can get in the way of good engagements. If you have a superior army, try to bait their army into an open area and then fight it. If you win the fight decisively, then take it to their production.

[@popostylz]

Every time I think I am done w/ SC, Winter pulled me right back in. I cheesed in my promos last season and placed into Master league, must have broken the system because I do not belong in Master. lol

[@Draeckon]

It's a visual bug that's been in the game for while. I think it's still a thing even now, 8 months later. But yeah, you are or were still in the metal leagues. You just have to look at your MMR to tell.

[@joshuamartinez7003]

Tried to play my placement games and got cheesed 3x in a row XD. My fault for not knowing what Im looking at/for when scouting and not building enough cannons in mineral lines against first banshees, then widowmines then battlecruiser rush. Two at right under 200apm and other above 150.

[@JuanSoloPlays]

I got cannon rushed three times in a row in my placement matches. Don't get discouraged. Take the opportunity of being lower placed to learn/reinforce your mechanics. once you feel more confortable you will easily climb the ladder again.

[@themanwhospeaksinclams]

On shield upgrades, do they apply to the immortal barrier ability???

[@AndrewChumKaser]

Only the shields, I believe.

[@GrippeeTV]

How do I deal with widow mine drops as protoss? They’re infuriating and they often do way more damage to me than I think they should. Platinum toss player

[@hivetech4903]

Gate-expand Blink is the safest opener against the widest variety of drop or pressure builds. Stargate might work out better if he went for a whacky Armory build but I wouldn't recommend it in Plat.

[@anonymouse3471]

1) scout it (if you see 1-1-1 and no tanks its a safe bet mine drop will happen) 2) map awareness. spotter pylons and shit to see the drop coming in. every time you lose to a drop watch the replay, see where the drop came from and try to place spotters from that direction. 3) build an observer and hotkey some defensive stalkers to respond to the drop with the obs (usually in the main). keep your defenders where you think the drop will come in

[@gamemakertim]

As soon as you said there was a low amount of cheese, someone tried to cheese the next match

[@JuanSoloPlays]

thats murphys law for you. But still, in my experience you have to deal with considerably more cheese in the gold league so I agree with winters assesment there

[@ghoraxe9000]

It's True... Maybe I just suck... But I was able to 4 gate my way to diamond... Totally new to the game... After putting in over 1500 games... I tried Terran for another 2000 games... I've been stuck in mid platinum since...

[@ghoraxe9000]

Between protoss and Terran... I much prefer Terran.. it's the most fun for me.. and it's the only race where I feel comfortable in a mirror match... Pvp is a god dam headache

[@23AFK]

1:08:50 calculated :D

[@jamesrockybullin5250]

Where do you reccomend placing your first pylon / gate against Random?

[@PollexLLC]

\Place it at the low ground because more than a 0% chance of zerg without a lowground wall is more than a 0% chance of losing in the first 3 minutes.

[@mundaney]

For ze glory of Protoz - WhiteRa

[@ascetahedonista7161]

If you want to know how to use Spawning Tool to train winter's build of an specific match here is a 2 mins tutorial about how to use it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIuUc6isqc6Sjs0 The page of Spawning Tool is here: lotv.spawningtool.com/ And here the replays of winter: sc2replaystats.com/player/3250914

[@odavomalites3681]

I never saw a match between Scarlett vs Serral. Who is the best?... 😉

[@User__Not__Found]

roach/hydra is my main army... Why is having "any amount of roaches on 2 base sus"? I usually have between 4-6 roaches by the 4 min mark as I'm prepping for my 3rd so I can avoid hellions... I don't change my build between armies yet, so I'm curious what it means if I have roaches on 2 base

[@JuanSoloPlays]

I think he is suspecting a roach allin if he sees some roaches early on 2 base. But I agree with you. those can just be some defensive roaches. On the other hand the sus thing imo is the two base thing. If you plan on macro and aren't preparing an attack.. where's your third base?

[@kingworlds]

I have a question, how can he move the soldiers from the place of expansion to another place?

[@Wizo062991]

How do you counter pheonixes with Stargate if you can't micro pheonixes? If there is no other way, any pheonix micro tips?

[@hivetech4903]

Don't open Stargate if you can't micro or if it takes your attention away from macroing. Blink into Charge/Immo/Archon.

[@Wizo062991]

@@hivetech4903 can micri fine with adepts, orackes, etc but pheonix micro is the issue

[@smnvalex]

@@Wizo062991 just dont go stargate in pvp then

[@Wizo062991]

@@smnvalex I dont. I am talking about mutas.

[@smnvalex]

@@Wizo062991 if you want to make Phoenix against muta but can't micro just make a few shield batteries around your bases and keep them around the shield batteries. Idk what else to tell ya. Just get better at microing them

[@sweatacheez]

56:11 what is the name of this gif 🤣🤣🤣

[@ross.neuberth]

Woo Hoo Frost Giant studios!

[@shotglass6334]

How do you counter every unit with protoss? Asking for a korean bronze friend.

[@Valhalla05]

Download the Unit Guide for SC2. It will give you info on how to counter every unit with any race.

[@jorgelenny47]

Not my man losing his entire base and saying he won that game wth

[@bastooo3]

i'll say it again - if it's going up too fast he (and the other B2GMers) should leave or lose some games. So we would have more different situations. I, for example have already great macro but I suck at fighting and closing out games so there would be a lot of useful info to give...

[@bastooo3]

not that this matters much up to gold but from plat on it might.

[@JuanSoloPlays]

The only thing I am missing here is how to deal with cheeses. For the macro and engagements I think that is covered enough in these games. but as you're saying these points will be adressed in higher leagues so hopefully there will come some helpful insight for you soon

[@theboatcaptain2289]

can we send replays? if yes, where?

[@Gredddfe]

1:08:45 AS I WALK THROUGH THE VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH

[@PhilosophyXGamer]

I would like an High APM challenge.

[@zeryz2616]

Onions grow more layers over time. Nice job baiting me into a comment, nerd.

[@SogaMaplestory]

1:51:20 I feel personally attacked

[@pieronapuri5062]

Same skill level I am a platinum terran but as Protoss I am diamond, is just an easier race to play, maybe its different in the professional level but until diamond you can win with super low apm

[@catra195]

Same, I played a Zerg a few 100 below my main MMR as Terran and I swear I didn't lose a single Unit with Collossus Storm Archon. Not one single unit

[@Jawzah]

Well - you got fever moving parts to handle playing as Protoss.. Fever but more powerful units. No moving buildings like Terran. less impactfull build choices to make than Zerg (meaing the zerg ability to build any unit they have tech from from all of their larva). Zerg also lose potential larva if they don't inject at right timing.. Terrans have more changes to lose building time as units take less time to build compared to Protoss units. So I'd say Terrans and Zerg do indeed require more skill, focus .. ability to play to near full potential.

[@Jawzah]

Terrans also have repairing to handle .. Handling SCVs to their full potential is harder than handling probes because of that and because they have to stay building while Protoss can just instantly start a build and immediately go on..

[@catra195]

@@Jawzah not to mention Scvs aren't mining when building neither are drones when morphing to a structure. But ultimately a Protoss army is just more cost efficient. Terran has to harass and avoid a fight until Protoss is behind. And a Zerg either has to attack before Protoss has an army or rush to T3 to even have a chance especially since the rush distances are so short and Protoss can win a fight with most of their army staying intact, If you lose one fight as Zerg you'll be lucky to get 3/4 the supply back before the Protoss is at your Natural.

[@JuanSoloPlays]

sounds to me as if apm is not a really telling metric of skill then. Also if you find protoss so strong walk some miles in those shoes. there is no better way to find their weaknesses than experiencing them firsthand

[@Oms424]

[@Fewshin]

It's the battle probe episode

[@MrCreed145]

Loving the Terran and zerg apm, I've watched all of every one so far. Just can't bring my self to give a shit about toss though. Ya ya make void rays.

[@tonichopper2170]

I'm not gonna lie I'm lucky to hit 60 apm and when I play consistently I get gold easy. But 60 apm is about my max

[@panchine2]

d...d...dpi?

[@dcp2047]

After playing terran for a while in my second match as protoss I was already beating people close to my terran MMR... It's easier indeed.

[@Caccac40]

pretty sure you can get to master with below 70apm as toss

[@JuanSoloPlays]

certainly. Cheesing or with a good tightly executed build (dt drop for example) but the idea here is to learn the game along the way. Can you mantain the 70 apm Mastersleague?

[@Xepent]

Are chargelots the best tier 1 unit in the game 🎮

[@ohlookitisacat7404]

No, Marine is.

[@anonymouse3471]

@@ohlookitisacat7404 marine is the best unit to build thinking you know what you are doing and then they all die to one collosus or baneling or widowmine

[@BigKnecht]

Yes

[@aaronkuster8754]

Love how I'm bronze 2 with 2.7k mmr and your gold with 2.4k

[@AskZch]

Onions grow layer by layer

[@Catatonic419]

I don’t see why that’s a dick move. Isn’t the point of an army to protect the motherland?

[@DjDude2007]

Hi BionicShiba XD

[@bxchtold]

hello bionic shiba

[@yjzhou1]

yes - no need to even look at the vid - protoss too easy! (Joke ofc - protoss players plz don't dogpile me lol)

[@nathangamble125]

Protoss is the easiest starcraft race to play. Change my mind. Protoss is not overpowered in high leagues where people have enough gamesense and APM to negate its advantages, but Protoss is overpowered in lower leagues, especially bronze to gold.

[@doublecrossedswine112]

I feel like it is easier because the units are expensive and take lots of supply, so its no problem spending your money. As you play better ranks the high supply units hinder you since zerg and terran can split their low supply units into multiple groups. I quit protoss early on. I can't figure out how to defend multiple attacks with them. I guess you could do nothing but timing attacks to avoid multi-prong harass but I'm not good enough for that. Also it would get boring laying down a proxy stargate every game. So yeah it easier at the start - balanced by being awful in the end. Seems fair enough really.

[@doublecrossedswine112]

BUT overcharge is kinda silly, just sayin

[@hivetech4903]

You've got it backwards. GM and Masters are dominated by Protoss. There is no such thing as balance below Masters, people are just bad and can't do builds properly, so "balance" has no meaning. Statistics show Protoss is very OP at pro level. PvZ has a 60% winrate, the most IMBA match since 2011. Its only weak among the top 10 players on earth which doesn't influence balance much.

[@doublecrossedswine112]

@@hivetech4903 According to the chart every matchup is above 50. So it isn't measuring what you think it is because it isn't possible for every race to be doing better than expected. Since 2011 PvZ is under 50 more than it is above it. Under this chart is another one and I quote "This chart can avoid some of the problems with the above, which can potentially be influenced by incredibly hot streaks from one or two singularly great players." Which is the opposite of when you say "among the top 10 players on earth which doesn't influence balance much." So I think there is more to the story, even if its just protoss doing better than in the past due to overcharge and proxy voids.

[@hivetech4903]

@@doublecrossedswine112 Allowing one race to be OP because of a 10 year average is obviously not how games are balanced. You should have read the first paragraph of the Balance Report. If one race is above 50%, that means the other race in that match is *below 50%.* So PvZ at 60% means top Zergs are only winning 40% of games Vs Protoss. Every race is not doing better than expected and most Zergs are losing overall which is shown in both charts, also proving that any hot streaks are not currently having an effect. This could change slightly when the world champs stats are added as Protoss sucked the big one again, but its certainly not going to drop PvZ by 5% or make the game any easier for most GMs & Masters. Proxy Voids are not an issue Vs Zerg, its Voids' buffs overall that can end the game well before going late.

[@blaskbulwark2881]

Is winter drunk?

[@ΔημήτρηςΜι-θ7χ]

this man is so arrogant he doesnt even interact with his comment section what a pity

[@sucRipper]

I am just getting into starcraft after many years, when do you wall of on high ground and when do you wall off at your low ground?

[@wolfparkour]

It's defensively better on high ground, depends if you wall your main or your expansion

[@JuanSoloPlays]

considering the video I think Winter has decided where to wall in relation of his opponents race. as you are dependent of your first pilon you can't go scouting before setting up the wall location. so if its zerg he's generally walling on the expansion. If it's protoss He makes the anti-adept wall with two gates on the high ground and you don't wall against terran at all. (exception, if you really want to close the reaper entry point)