Wintersun Wants Your Money..

[@moonlapsenightwind6859]

So we are coming up on 6 years since this, and it's crazy how right you were. To this day, we have only podcasts and videos of Jari playing Megadeth riffs. Literally half of Wintersun is in Nightwish now, probably because they would rather tour and play music than sit in front of a computer and listen to Jari make up all these bullshit excuses. It almost makes me wonder what Finland's laws are related to fraud, and if people who donated would be able to hold him to a class action lawsuit.

[@birddaddydetta]

Big lmao

[@KimboRamboFin]

We all know the files aren't worth freaking 50 euros. We know. But that's not the point. We want the money to go straight to the band. It's basically a donation but actual donations aren't allowed in Finland. So they have to give something in return. Now for some facts: 1) If you want the album, but don't want to pay the 50 euros, you can just buy the physical copy. It will be released the exact same day as the funders get the Forest Package. No problem here. 2) At this point they have raised over 100k euros at the very beginning of the funding, which means that the album actually will be released. No problem here either. 3) The samples of the new album sound amazing. Yes, I count this as a fact xD. The sound quality is way better than their first album or Time I. They have every right to do this crowdfunding, and I can see why they want to do it. They want to work on new material constantly, which would require them to rent a studio pretty much 24/7. That's not cost effective. They have enough support to build their own studio, so why shouldn't they?

[@KimboRamboFin]

So the point of this post: if you don't like the idea of the crowdfunding, simply ignore it. Pretend it doesn't exist. Buy the album the traditional way and let others fund the campaign. I don't understand why you get angry and frustrated over it, because it literally has no effect on you. Actually YOU will get the physical albums in your hands faster thanks to the people who fund them.

[@bretttharpwriter]

Kimble "ignoring things" fixes nothing. In fact it's immoral to ignore.

[@CountBlagorath]

Your love of the music has blinded you from seeing how dumb this is. "If we don't raise 150K, you're not getting our album!" is meant to get people like you in a panic so you can fork over your hard earned money to these lazy shit bags. For the record, I'm not gonna ignore anything. I'm calling them out for being a bunch of greedy shitbags.

[@KimboRamboFin]

I agree that it was not wise at all to go for "all or nothing". But that's a thing of the past now, they're at 92% of the minimum goal.

[@CountBlagorath]

You're not understanding the principal behind what I'm saying. They're a bunch of tools for pulling a move like that. If they didn't do that, I wouldn't care.

[@harmlessrebel868]

That's fucking crazy. If I'm paying 50 Euro I want the album on limited edition vinyl, signed by the band.

[@Pagnah]

Idiot, it's 50 euro for lots of stuff. Imbecile.

[@kevinwilliams7273]

50 euro for the digital album, digital remasters of the first two, and some isolated backing tracks pretty much... still no way in hell I'd pay 50 euro for some files on my computer. That's completely asinine in my opinion.

[@sabinaghinassi206]

Wintersun rule.. I will give more then 50 euro if they need. They produced a fucking impressive album without a discographic contract. I think 50 euro are a nice price,a really nice price

[@fortis_3625]

If they could accept the donations in Finland, I'd support them even wihout getting an album. Why? Because their music is fucking awesome and I think they deserve it. What's so bad about letting the fans to support their favourite bands? Nobody forces you to participate in this campaign, you can wait till NB releases the physical version.

[@fortis_3625]

Learn to read. I'm not only buying an album. I support my favourite band becouse this is my choice - to invest in that what is worth of it for me. The way how people spend their money is none of your buisness, no matter what do you think about it.

[@TwallThePk]

So many smaller bands are able to complete albums without asking for money. Unbelievable.

[@FeederSeriesFan]

What smaller bands give their albums for free? They must be either shit or fuckin' idiots.

[@joeschmoe8067]

Jari is a perfectionist, he's OCD, can't help it. He won't settle for less. Poor recording for such intricate stuff. Why bother! That's how he sees it.

[@fortis_3625]

Can you give us some examples of small non-commercial bands, making such complex and time-consuming projects with a low budget?

[@PPGIRL420]

If you set out to make a really complex album and you can't do it, that's your own damn problem. Most bands don't ask for money until, get this, the album is gonna fucking come out.

[@fortis_3625]

But when you set to make a complex album with some vision to fulfill in home studio its pretty clear that youll have to spent much more time to produce it. Time I was a great example. Fans want to get both - perfect music, and more, faster produced albums. That's why they suggested crowdfunding. THE FANS. NOT WINTERSUN. IT WAS THE FANS IDEA (you might have missed this part).

[@iram4418]

And 3 years latter you've proven right, they gained HALF MILLION dollars,but they have not publish absolutely nothing new, just trailers and limited content from their patreon, because yes, they are asking for money again. What a fucking joke.

[@michalien93]

I love Wintersun and looking forward to their next album but I agree this crowdfunding stunt is ridiculous.

[@blackcraft3465]

He is one angry troll

[@OhJHS]

Yes. I just couldn't take this video seriously. I mean this dude calls himself "CountBlagorath"

[@birddaddydetta]

This is pretty funny to see in retrospect

[@Starforsaken101]

How dumb are we? How about don't fucking fund them if you don't want to.

[@CountBlagorath]

This is setting a bad example for the music industry.

[@KimboRamboFin]

No it's fucking not. Underground musicians can barely make a living in this era of Spotify, KZbin etc. And most metal artists tend to be not to be so successful. This is encouragement for smaller metal bands, because this proves you don't need millions of fans to make things work out, you just need a handful of committed fans.

[@thearchivist7824]

Yeah all you underground bands who are surprised that you're not making millions and selling out stadiums playing very niche styles of music listened to by a minuscule amount of the world's population! Ask your fans to bail you out after making bad financial decisions!

[@viknu6304]

12 people supported Wintersun's crowdfund.

[@CountBlagorath]

WINTER$UN

[@aaronmcbryer3980]

Scott from Xasthur sent me this as a joke, and I think it could apply to this situation. scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10993960_631231113689827_7320472531674544699_n.jpg?oh=26840c2f450e61baf864e99f43bd56bd&oe=593F3379

[@S3lvah]

1:35 This is probably beside your point, but they already reached their 'safe goal' in less than a day, so (according to their statement) the album's coming, guaranteed. I got the vibe that they were certain they'd reach it, so not much thought was given to the possibility of not releasing the album. More to the point, I'll grant that what they're doing is unconventional and perhaps even morally ambiguous - assuming you consider the €50 price tag to be too high for what you're getting to be called a purchase and not a donation. If I had to guess (and this is a notion I've had for a few years now), their reasoning is that if they can get to that €750k goal, they'll get a one-off injection of opportunity (a studio / hq / man-cave / whatever the fuck they want to call it), which will help them 'fairly sell' many albums, at a quicker pace, in the future. Just my hunches. I loved Time I and I feel pretty neutral about their 'crowdfunding' overall, so I don't think I have a position on either side of this. I could be missing some vital information, of course. But I think this could create a good discussion on whether it's acceptable for musicians to crowdfund (to any degree) in the same way that inventors and other such folks do.

[@NekoinValhalla]

Selvy Now that's how you give a genuinely neutral and well built opinion. Save the "fuck", "idiots" and else to make yourself credible. Thank you. I myself donated because I love the band more like any other and am ready to throw that much to get the album. Yet I understand that it might look questionable. Maybe I've been misled about what I'd get in the end ? To be honest honest I expected actual physical package. Is the info about it only being digital 100% certain ? Anyways and about the funding holding the album "hostage" in case they didn't reach their goal well as long as you reimbursed they're free to pretty much do whatever they want. So yeah, hard-core but open minded fan. Would've liked it to work like any other band do and gotta admit they are always a bit elusive about what the lack of ressources and difficulties they encounter truly are.

[@CurryFeatures]

I donated 50 euro.. 42 GBP to help them build their studio. It was my choice to do it. I have listened to and understood your points but I'm not phased. Even the asinine points where you repeat yourself calling people a "fucking idiot" even though it was their choice to donate. They did try setting up a crowdfunding thing before and I was going to donate to that with no qualms too. They didn't manage to get it set up though, this is the one and only crowd funding they have successfully got up and running. Besides, I spend more than 40 pounds on a night out drinking so meh. I pre-ordered Ayreon's new album for the same price and I haven't seen anyone whining and calling me a "fucking idiot" over and over on KZbin yet, but oh well. I'm just happy they're getting somewhere with this. I will say this, Wintersun exist in this weird area where they're both a Massive band with a big label supporting them as well as this small band that still has to record albums in their bedrooms, as evidenced by the Time 1 DVD. Personally, I'd prefer to take them as a big band and help them get what they needed all along. Hell, even my favourite band Blind Guardian have their own studio. I know that BG paid their dues and bought the studio from many years of hard work releasing albums but I feel that even with Nuclear Blast, Wintersun never got that chance. One thing I'll agree with is that it is shady that they're holding the album hostage... but I thought of this crowdfunding as a way to help build their studio anyway so I'm not bothered. To me, my money is going to help build their studio and I'm just getting some sweet MP3's on the side.

[@CurryFeatures]

Jeremy Stillwell well done.

[@MetallenVikingr]

if they dont reach their goal you get your money back its an all or nothing campaign or did you miss that part? The reason why people are willing to give them money is because we know the music is quality, sure you can record in a bedroom with lo-fi or even slightly better equipment but to someone with a vision and an ear for production who has produced high quality music with what is afforded by a label a personal studio is a logical next step. And why not have the fans fund it? We like their music and we are true fans and support the artist and we ARE getting music made to the artists standards not just the labels needs wants and desires. Do you want another cookie cutter album where the label holds the band hostage to make the material to their specs or do you want original music because that is the dream jari has for wintersun. Speaking as an artist who has released music in a bedroom and who has spent time in studio and has an extensive knowledge of the music industry and how it functions i really dont see your opinion holding much weight. You did minimal research and dont understand the point of the bands campaign and just sound like someone salty about waiting like you could just listen to all those other artists you talk about. and finally insulting your subscribers who DO like and support wintersun is clearly a bad PR move once again illustrating that you dont understand your target audience. Its not like we dont get something for supporting them, you just sound like a salty about time II. Get over it. Also we dont need or want your sympathy, you can keep it, we have integrity and loyalty.

[@CountBlagorath]

1) You're not getting the point of what I'm saying. Morally, the shit they're pulling is fucked up. 2) "Speaking as an artist who has released music in a bedroom and who has spent time in studio and has an extensive knowledge of the music industry and how it functions i really dont see your opinion holding much weight." Shut the fuck up. I've been in studios, doing bed room recordings and I obviously know more than you about the music industry seeing as I can see through the bullshit they're pulling. But congrats on being king shit with your music and attitude. 3) I'm not "salty" about Time II. I'm pissed that the band is begging for more fucking money instead of working like everyone else. If you feel insulted by this video, good. You're part of the problem. 4) "Also we dont need or want your sympathy, you can keep it, we have integrity and loyalty." FUCKING L O L

[@MetallenVikingr]

go produce an album you internet dwelling fuck boy.

[@MetallenVikingr]

Clearly you have no experience producing music so i will disregard your words as the rantings of a childish butthurt former wintersun fan. Youre entitled to your opinion but you clearly have no concept of the industry and dont really understand how music production goes down, or why. You dont seem to understand the concept that the band doesnt make money off of touring, they recoup the money given to them by the label with touring. merchandise sales only get so far, say maybe rent for the band occasionally. Label is not your friend, they give you debt, you give them art, they give you an audience to help you pay off the debt. The label wants music it knows will sell well and make them lots of money.| So essentially what you are saying is the label deserves to fuck over artists who are the ones creating for a label for label designed music. honestly i cant take you seriously because you really dont give a fuck about the band in question either before or after. Nor can i say you ever gave a fuck about any of your favorite bands. you clearly are just a poser.

[@MetallenVikingr]

right because physical CD's are still a thing (eyeroll) i only need the high quality digital files, i keep them backed up on external drive and on a hifi player because i value quality unlike everyone getting mad at having to pay for music.

[@CountBlagorath]

How is this different? I dunno, I've never seen a band do a CD or shirt preorder and say "If you don't preorder our album, we're just not gonna release it." Comparing this shit to merch sales at a show is fucking insane. If you don't buy a shirt, you don't get the shirt. Fine. The band isn't saying "If you don't buy a shirt, we're not playing live ever again!".

[@dedal24]

This aged well for sure

[@sarketalovic7450]

Jari Maenpaa is everything that you little metal boys would like to be. Guitar god creating complex metal masterpieces, worshiped by a legion of devoted fanatics who think that he is some mythical elf-like son of winter and stars. Nobody would wait patiently for 8 years and tolerate Jari's bullshit, if his music was not one of a kind. Everyone would move on and listen to other band like that, right? But no, because there is no other band like that. People are that desperate to have more of Wintersun, that they still come and beg him to release anything. It turns out Jari's music is just that special for those people to throw 50 euro at him. It is their money, so why do you have problem with that? I am also fed up with Jari's behavior, but I don't think he is delaying albums because he is lazy.... he is just a perfectionist who doesn't want to compromise when it comes to his art.... and that's it.

[@runnerjma]

Can we start the "Punch Jari Maenpaa In The Face" campaign?

[@daveweteling395]

runnerjma TAKE MY MONEY XD

[@jarithesaunalover6008]

Give me a sauna first and then you can punch me how you want.

[@boab69y2k]

Too late dude, they smahsed their target. I agree with you 100% , just want to say thanks for uploading this man. At least somone is looking out for fans.

[@DownFallNetWork]

HEY GUYS IM DAVE MUSTAINE, I HAVE A SHIT LOAD OF MONEY BUT WE NEED YOUR HELP PAYING FOR OUR ALBUM

[@winkuli]

Just gonna correct you: the new album The Forest Seasons release is scheduled on July by NB no matter the outcome of the crowdfund, they're not holding it out.

[@CountBlagorath]

They stated clearly the album won't be released unless they get the money.

[@SpookyApparition]

CountBlagorath where did they say that? it doesn't say that on their crowdfunding page.

[@numchacar]

The release date is estimated for CD physical version of 'The Forest Seasons' album is July 2017 by Nuclear Blast's release schedule and Nuclear Blast will confirm the exact date later. No one is being held ransom

[@BsBellamy]

"You're paying 50€ for fucking files on your computer." How stupid is this argument? Were all the CDs I can see behind you free? Did you buy them for the plastic they're made of, or for the digital data they contain?

[@omgwtfbbqwarftw]

I don't think so. Your cd's are also "just" 1s and 0s when you play them through a cd player or a pc. It's basically the same as having a flash drive with some artwork on top.

[@Marcos10f]

I really don't see the problem here - Crowdfunding? They want to get moneys (wow, so evil). They go the crowdfunding way, pretty popular these days. They offer you a product for a price, like it? buy it. Don't like it? then don't buy it. - Being digital? You can get the physical CD too, which by the way is also 1s and 0s. I also preffer the tangible thing myself but nothing is wrong with digital downloads. - Being 50 euros? Taking into account the amount of things included (5 albums in the best quality, isolated tracks. etc) is not expensive at all by other digital albums price standards - Using the money to build their studio? So? If I pay for something I don't care what they do with the money, I pay because I think the product I get is worth it - Not wanting to release albums with 'not perfect' production? Well I could totally be fine with 'shitty' production albums like their first 2 or this forest seasons samples that sound amazing BUT I don't decide about it and have no right to demand Jari to publish albums if he doesn't want to.

[@dmforever1327]

stuff like this makes the DIY scene so much more respectable

[@groovyviking5508]

I donated to the campaign immediately after it started out of excitement because I want to hear this album so badly. But then I started thinking about the ramifications this campaign is going to have. Like you said there are going to be bands that see Wintersun doing this and think that they don't have to put the effort in anymore. So yay I get to hear 4 new songs instead of Time ii. I've waited 5 fucking years for new music and now the band gets a fancy new studio and are still probably going to take 10 years to put out more music.

[@tarikh9693]

Dude it's not about buying an album, it's about helping someone achieve their dreams.

[@tarikh9693]

You Just Made The List I doubt it's realistic to get 750.000€ by working a little bit more.

[@CountBlagorath]

Every other band has worked for what they have. Why should Wintersun be any different?

[@arthemas8176]

Can you send me 50.000€ please I also want to achieve my dreams 😢

[@Patralgan]

Idk. Wintersun means a lot to me so what I get for 50€ is a very good deal to me. I gladly support them, but I understand it seems insane if you're not so much into their music. You could argue that 50€ for the package is a lot and it is especially compared how "free" music is today with services like spotify, but you have to remember that is not only about paying for the package, but also backing for the studio which they need. By supporting them this way I'm helping them to release albums quicker, better and more.

[@Patralgan]

The package is highly attractive for me as I've always wanted improved versions of the albums etc. But I guess no matter how insanely good the package would be, there would still be haters.

[@Chordflux]

"Time 2 pay us for our very own studio!"

[@igeebs]

I don't understand why everyone is so adamant that the files aren't worth 50 euros?! From what I can gather, the standard price for a digital download of an album (at least through itunes) is around 15 euros right? And the 'forest seasons' package contains 4 albums (forest seasons, Time 1 remastered, wintersun remastered, and a live album) as well as isolated stem files for remixing, and 'karaoke' or whatever. So that, by market standards should be around 60 euros, drop around 10 euros for the fact that the price for 'wintersun' has probably dropped over time (although, remastered reissues usually enter the market at a greater price than the original album is currently being sold for) So this is your standard money for goods. The people that continue to call crowdfunding 'donations' are and endless source of facepalming. It's just trade dude, like any pre-order. Also the notion of holding 'future albums at ransom' is so utterly bogus. If a band chooses to discontinue making music that is entirely their prerogative. If the reason is that they are uncomfortable working under certain conditions, or never feel satisfied with the results by using third party studios, again their prerogative. You can call him a wimp, or a delicate flower, for not being able to handle studio stress, or time pressure when other people can, but people are different man. Everyone has different limitations. They don't owe us future albums, they owe us what we paid for, i.e. the albums we've bought. People that extend that to some kind of 'social contract' of continuing to release albums in a timely manner indefinitely do not understand the nature of artist/consumer relationship, and are projecting pretty hard. Finally, I think it's absolutely your right to want to have a physical copy of the album for your big-ass collection if that's what is important to you, but remember that the product most people are paying for here is the music, not the plastic packaging, (which imo is a huge waste of resources and creator of landfill in the digital age). The cost of albums goes to cover largely the cost of the production of the music, not just the packaging and distro. And if you want your plastic so badly just wait for the nuclear blast release, it's not a big deal. The quality of the files are looking to be of a higher quality than the CD files anyhow so, you know, if that helps explain away some of your anxiety about overpriced digital files. This is basically online selling of goods, which well help fund future projects for the band. Nothing more, nothing less. Good day to ya.

[@metalfilms6660]

If never been a big fan of "Time I". But with something like this they completely lost my respect as musician. Beeing a band means to give everything for your fans. Not the other way round. Come on man. They had fucking 7 or 8 years time to save the fucking money. Digusting and pathetic.

[@zacjohnson6611]

Not to mention, anyone can buy the physical copy, CD or vinyl, from NB at the same time the digital copy is released without paying anything for the towards their crowdfunding.

[@chandlerbrown3172]

Man I'm excited for the new album cause I like their music, but I saw this and cringed my ass off

[@chandlerbrown3172]

"This" as in the gay ass video from Jari. I used to love the guy, and admired him as a musician. Rip that

[@KimboRamboFin]

Don't watch the crowdfunding video if you don't want to cringe yourself to death :D They're awkward as fuck. But the music is good.

[@mykectown]

This video was funny. I had no idea who the hell Wintersun was and was pretty content with living under my rock. But I looked them up after your rant. Yuck. I miss that rock.

[@Ghoulstille]

I love dwelling under my rock, it's great.

[@TheAsianNerd]

Just for everyone to know, the $50 comes with digital copy, in near LOSSLESS quality format of the followings: The upcoming Forest album - both MP3 320kb and WAV 24-bit 44,1kHz Instrumental version of Forest album 5K The forest digital book 2 Remastered albums - both MP3 320kb and WAV 24-bit 44,1kHz 1 Live album Total = 5 albums So before you judge whether this is worth it or not, hear me out here: Let's say a physical copy of the album is $10, 5 albums in this package equals $50 already. So in order to enjoy the musics, you will most probably rip the CD into mp3/wav/ogg or any kinds of digital format. But it suffers a certain degree of conversion loss in quality anyway. So with the WAV 24-bit 44,1kHz file, we got the most enjoyable lossless music quality. You can listen to EVERY DETAIL they put in their music and understand what kind of effort they've put. Oh and if you are comparing this to buying digital albums on iTunes, please don't because they are most like variable 320kb only. So to me, $50 is definitely worth it. And with the crowdfunding goals already reached, it is a $50 I will not regret spending.

[@CountBlagorath]

Or ya know.. you can play the CD. I've only ripped a handful of CDs in the last 3 years.

[@TheAsianNerd]

Absolutely! That's why you can just purchase the CD from stores when it is out. The crowdfunding is just for another target. Because of my full time job, I have to travel around and seldom can find a place to sit down and play through the CDs. I usually rip them to mp3 320 and WAV format for different devices that I own to enjoy the music. I guess after all, the crowdfunding is just targeting for a different market. But still, maths speaking, $50 is definitely worth more than you can get.

[@Zerath0]

I was little unsure if I would pre-order this package because simply put I only care about the new album and the remastered old ones. I have no use for the rest of the stuff. 50 euros would be a bit much just for those things, considering how that money would go to the band 100% I can live with it. I like their music and if my money helps them create more & better music in the future, then great! I'm the kind of person who wants to support the things I like. If other bands I like would release their albums like this, where all the money I pay, they would have completely themselves, I would gladly do it. And the fact that this package comes in digital files doesn't bother me in the slightest, and this is coming from a person who still buys physical media like movies, games, books and music.

[@TheAsianNerd]

I know some of the comments got deleted here, so to those people I say please don't start a debate on whether physical copy or digital version is better. Anything can happen. Macro-economically speaking, in the long run, everything is a variable and subject to changes and risks. And just like everyone said, some prefer physical copy to hold, while some prefer digital format. If digital format and quality is your choice, this crowdfunding is your go. If you just want the physical album CD, just wait for its release. And please stop accusing this video. Everyone has their own opinion. We are civilized people.

[@Zerath0]

+The Asian Nerd I haven't started any debates, I only wrote what my opinion for this crowdfunding was, if someone has started a debate here it's the uploader of this video. And I wasn't accusing this video of anything so I don't know what you are talking about.

[@Enlightened_Healings]

I'm just gonna torrent the new album

[@bryany4828]

2023 and its still the same haha. Stopped supporting them ages ago but thought it was funny.

[@nordriket]

I do agree that jari talks like a car salesman. But Wintersun is a truly epic band so I'm willing to forgive stupid behavior if their next album is as great as time and wintersun.

[@SolarfallBaits]

I have a strong feeling that this first campaign is going to be successful, since yesterday night after 3h of releasing and seeing that video they put out the crowdfunding had 7000€ and now 12h later they have 97,970€. I was thinking of donating but no way i will be paying 50€ for digital music files, if there was something physical in the package then maybe.

[@SolarfallBaits]

haha c'mon the old albums are in ultra high quality mp3's :P

[@M85619]

'Mouth Breathing Trog" is now in my vocabulary lol,

[@thearchivist7824]

Wintersun fanboys are rising in the ranks to Slayer and Pantera levels.

[@drumitar]

You know shit got real with no Intro

[@friendlyrottingcorpse6359]

Mindless self indulgence did something similar to this

[@chondrinenigma]

Well, Time II does now seem to exist but apart from that.... EVERY. FUCKING. WORD!!!!

[@MetallenVikingr]

crowdfunding = getting roughly 4 albums of quality material paying for albums, what a novel concept (eyeroll)

[@fortis_3625]

What's wrong about letting the fans to support their favourite band? Nobody forces you to participate. It's not your buisness how other people spend their money.

[@ziltoidtheomniscient2398]

Seems like you're mad at the very concept of crowd funding. There isn't behavior to be enabled, it's already been a thing for a while. It's just another path to take, and if they fail then we get our money back and future albums continue their NORMAL pace of development. Jari isn't locking up sheet music in a treasure chest like a fucking pirate.

[@TrulyStucker]

Who seriously would give a shit about this man's opinion. They reached a goal within 24 hours. Nothing much to say. Its says all about how the band is relevant, unique and lovable among metal community.

[@AlexR_89]

Probs just gonna buy the CD when Nuclear Blast release it in a few months. The old albums hardly need remastering.

[@thomaskittock2866]

They sound like princesses... Glad I payed like 5 bucks for Time 1

[@nokturnalmisanthropia9860]

as much as i love wintersun i have more important things to do with my money like pay bills and rent.. so they aint getting my money until they release a physical product..

[@KimboRamboFin]

Then buy the physical album? I mean, the band won't get much money from it and most of it goes to the label, but it's better than nothing.

[@evacody1249]

They can do what ever other band does then TOUR.

[@Oyhus]

Time to start paying for music again, gamers.

[@RanterInShades]

I'm not sure it's fair to say what Ne Obliviscaris, or Allegaeon for that matter, are doing is on the same level as this. Ne Obliviscaris are at least on a smaller label than Wintersun, and don't have the final product playing in the background of a crowdfunding promo video like Wintersun did.

[@SocialGore]

High-quality Mp3 is an oxymoron.

[@DeATHMeTALSCooBYDoo]

I love the music Wintersun has released but at the same time i'm kind of embarrassed to admit i'm a fan of the band. Jari is ridiculous, stubborn amd beyond entitled. I can't believe people are funding this bullshit. 50euro for digital garbage, i mean whats the point of a "5k digital booklet"? It makes me so angry to have been waiting so long for something only to get this

[@sensenmann92]

Everyone who makes a product wants money from their clients. Musicians aren't excluded from that. I often feel like people don't want musicians to think economically. And then buy Kiss toilet paper or such

[@faelicks]

I've been following Wintersun's Facebook page for the past couple of years, and I think there are some things you misunderstood. - The new album not being released in case of a failed crowdfunding is most likely part of the deal with Nuclear Blast. They had some trouble convincing NB to allow them to do the crowdfunding in the first place. The further delay of future albums would be due to the lack of regular access to a studio to finish their production. - If you want the new album... You can also buy it physically when it''s released in July. Which is very, very, very likely gonna happen. - The Forest Package isn't THAT overpriced. If you consider that there's two other albums in there, plus a live album, plus other stuff, that's worth about 50 bucks. Even though you don't get anything physical. - This crowdfunding wasn't the idea of the band, originally. Fans suggested it. - Jari has some unusual perfectionism regarding his music, also (or especially?) production-wise, yes. But it's every artist's own choice if and under which conditions they want their music to get published. So, if Jari doesn't want to release Time 2 and his other projects without the "proper" production (in his vision), we can't force him to do so because we're his fans. Jari has certain requirements to produce his music in a way he's willing to release it. Fans want it to be released and are ready to help him get everything he needs to do so. Wintersun isn't asking for money, they are simply providing their fans a chance to contribute to the building of their own studio financially - which many have been asking for since Jari said that an own studio would speed up the production of future albums. Bare in mind that this wasn't their own idea, but one of their fans. Edit: At this point, the goal is nearly reached. So the album IS going to be released. So you're not paying 50 bucks for something that MAY be released, but you're paying 50 bucks for something that is definitely going to be released and is already finished. With the bonus of contributing to more Wintersun albums being released more regularly.

[@foon-the-gremlin]

i like how the video creator hasn't replied to this post that literally proves him completely wrong.

[@lunanielsen9144]

metalflame94 he's planning to do a dramatic reading and vid response

[@CountBlagorath]

1) I corrected myself on the first point. 2) The physical aspect isn't what I'm pissed about. Its the bands entitlement. 3) For a series of 1's and 0's, its 100% overpriced seeing as there is no cost. 4) The fans wanted to crowdfund Time II, not for a studio. 5) There is a difference between being a perfectionist and being greedy.

[@faelicks]

3) Time is money. and they've surely invested a huge lot of time in this project. (Puns not intended) ... Also, my entire steam library is a series of 0's and 1's. So it should be free as well ... I actually like that logic :-D 4) Well, they're still funding Time II, indirectly. Successfull campaign -> Wintersun HQ -> Time II. Yes, that's still a long way to go, but many fans don't give a **** about whether it's Time II or TFS they get, new Wintersun material is fine either way. 5) I wouldn't call them outright greedy. Though I wonder if they really have to BUILD that thing instead of buying a finished building and equipping it properly. Not sure if that would actually be cheaper, though. If they had asked for the funding of the WSHQ directly, without the suggestion of their fans, I would agree with you. But this is simply what the fans wanted.

[@faelicks]

Just watched your other video on the topic.So... 6) I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have set that "all or nothing"-condition without NB having a part in this. Yes, otherwise it would just be absolutely rude. 7) I don't know how much money NB gave them for Time II. That's something I'd like to know. 8) If my hard drive goes to shit... I have a backup xD 9) Don't get too upset about the sauna thing. As far as I know, a sauna is part of the standard inventory of most Finnish houses. It sounds really weird if you don't take the cultural background into account. 8) What I totally agree with is your fear that this is setting a bad standard. Bands suddenly thinking "Hey, it would be totally dope to have our own tour boat, right? Let's have a crowdfunding for it!" ... Nope nope nope.

[@KingStibroz]

I think you got it wrong. You will get the Forest seasons album if you pay 50e so it's not a ransom. Their goal is for making Time 2. Forest seasons is already made and will be released no matter what. If they reach their goal, they will release Time 2 too. Besides, they haven't made a crowdfunding campaign before. They were planning to do it but Nuclear Blast was against it.

[@KimboRamboFin]

Actually they wouldn't release the new album if the 150k minimum goal wasn't met. But I guess that's irrelevant now since they're already so close to it.

[@timmy41]

I think crowdfunding for music can be good thing, IF the band is relatively unknown and you can actually pick the amount you want to donate. I'd be happy to donate 5 bucks for a band that's just starting out and needs some support to get things rolling. Sure, most bands did it without that help, but I see this as a positive thing, bands now have that option, they might actually end up with something and don't just have to give up their dreams, because they simply can't afford to record anything. And of course I'm not talking about ridiculous sums like 150'000€. Every dollar counts. However, not releasing something until a goal is reached is a shit move, especially since Wintersun are pretty popular in the metal scene, they have no problem selling records and finding venues to play at for touring. That's what really bugs me. And yeah, as someone said, for 50€, I want a limited vinyl record AND the digital files.

[@JT_Grogan]

I don't see how any self-respecting music fan could fall for such a blatant cash grab. The entitlement of some of these bands today is mind blowing, it's like they think of their fans as mindless slaves who will just throw money at them for no good reason. Not to mention they are signed to Nuclear Blast, which isn't that big of a deal but I would be a little more understanding if an unsigned local band did something like this.

[@evacody1249]

I don't have a problem with unsigned bands or bands that want to make a DVD.

[@JT_Grogan]

Delain124 What does that have to do with anything?

[@shinyhunting17]

A lot of this crossed my mind too but at the end of the day, most people just want the package regardless of what the band wants the money for. And I wouldn't really say they're holding the album at ransom, if they'd said something along the lines of "unless we get enough money to completely finish the studio than you're not getting the album," than I'd be pissed too, but they're setting modest goals. If Jari was asking for money and offering a non-existent product (like the "promise" of Time II when it "comes out") than I wouldn't be supporting him, but he's offering people something that they want so he can build his studio, I might not agree with everything he's done in the past (I think he should've just made simpler albums and saved money until he could afford to make Time instead of carrying on like he has) but I think it'd be stupid to not buy something I want just because the person who made it has acted questionably in the past. He just wants to be able to have somewhere he can spend a tonne of time perfecting the mix and recordings of the music he wants to make and as long as he isn't literally scamming people I don't see an issue with this. Despite all of the stupid drama behind the scenes I still want the album regardless so I'm backing it.

[@CountBlagorath]

Here's a video of corrections and explaining a few things. kzbin.info/www/bejne/faK7Y2Snf9-rjbc

[@zacjohnson6611]

NB has said nothing bad about what their doing and are actually promoting their crowdfunding. Not sure how detrimental this whole thing could possibly be if a record company is supporting it.

[@benng4376]

I own and enjoy the first WIntersun album. I will never purchase another.

[@thetrainsrock]

just here to see what you have to say. i get your point. i havent paid, because i dont have the money. its been 2 days since the thing started, and they have gotten 125% of their goal. just had to say that

[@PaulPedoDenino]

They have over 100000 now, they want 750000. Fuckin hell.

[@KimboRamboFin]

They will reach 750k easily with three separate campaigns. It's both crazy and awesome.

[@foon-the-gremlin]

i don't get why people are so upset by the crowdfunding. nobody is forced to donate to them. nobody! yet people still do, and that's for the love of great quality music. don't act like you're all better than those who donated just 'cause you think this is a shit deal. us donators want to support a band we love and that's really all there is to it. you can buy the album anyway as a physical copy

[@La_Birbona]

I personally love wintersun, they're one of my favourite bands. Their albums helped me through a lot of dark moments. This crowdfunding campaign is just garbage. People donating 50 euros for a fucking digital album that probably isn't even finished. Also, who cares about the remasters anyway? I've got the originals cds and i listen to them, no matter if they're badly produced or not. And i do really hope the album comes out as physical copy anytime, because i personally can't stand digital downloads. And to all the people donating for the forest package, anytime that album will be leaked or will be available on YT or Spotify, so i kind of think that it's worthless. Nonetheless, i will buy the album, BUT only as a physical format.

[@TheAsagrim]

Hey for 50$ i have 3 albums plus varius things, is pretty fair to me

[@CountBlagorath]

$50 for 3 digital albums? Seriously?

[@thearchivist7824]

And not just 3 digital albums. 1 album of original music and 2 remastered versions.

[@fortis_3625]

Dude, 99% of the content on EVERY cd is digital. What is more important for you? The music or the disc? If you choose the second option wait till NB release the physical version.

[@thearchivist7824]

Also $50 for one original album and 2 remasters regardless is too much.

[@Starforsaken101]

Actually, it's 50$ for an original album, two remasters, and a live album. However, the original album not only includes the regular tracks, but instrumental tracks as well, AND individual tracks for each instrument. I'm sorry, but this is actually fair and worth it. Digital music is still HOURS of work, and to be frank, we're in a digital era - with our devices and Spotify, I don't see any use for physical albums anymore. And as Fortis said above, just wait until Nuclear Blast releases the physical album. It's not that difficult, guys.

[@epicdrumline3543]

the first band I can remember doing this is The Project Hate and my first thought way back when was this is the dumbest idea I could ever imagine. I'm so sad this practice is becoming a thing...

[@evacody1249]

The Project Hate is not signed to a label.

[@epicdrumline3543]

Delain124 true but the way they fund albums is similar and just as backwards to me. they're up their own butts with it imo

[@tulpatwin_]

nice shirt. that's my brother in laws band!

[@ladygrim412]

Dude.... this shit. Thank you for calling this out.

[@brandonstinebrickner6974]

Bro my new glasses look just like that. "Stops copies me"

[@CountBlagorath]

No, I'll fight you.

[@PuNkIsNoTdEaD01]

Lmao my reaction was fuck you get a job like me ahaha

[@jarithesaunalover6008]

So basically fuck all the band that use crowdfunding campaign? Do you know how much moneys death metal bands do in general (even the big ones)? Less than the minimum salary so even if they work their asses off, as long as they do death metal or black metal or whatever subgenres of these two genres , they won't be able to make a living out of it. The only thing that really bother me in this campaign is the ridiculous price of the package that only include digital shit.

[@CountBlagorath]

But why is it that he's entitled to his own studio?

[@jarithesaunalover6008]

Well, Jari is kind of crazy about getting his own studio with his fucking sauna and i will give you that point , but not all bands who make a crowdfunding campaign need their own studio. For exemple, the new Persefone album was crowdfunded because it was a huge project and the band members couldn't afford it(even with their jobs, something that jari doesn't have) and the crowfunding has been essential for them to release an album that otherwise would have not been released.

[@ziltoidtheomniscient2398]

I see no issue leveraging their ever growing popularity like this. A private studio space should be a wet dream for artists, and they deserve it if their fans will it to be. Crowd funding is a newish thing so no shit other bands haven't been in the same position. I fucking hate the "no real blankity blank would do this" false argument. Look at all the video makers living off Patreon instead of relying on a flimsy check from KZbin where they risk bullshit everyday. They're expecting money from their fans, and if they're legitimate they make content. A band doing this seems like a logical progression. And for whatever reasons Wintersun has, the album would only continue moving at the pace it has been if the crowd fund didn't exist, so I don't understand your analogy to a hostage situation. Crowd funding can be extremely powerful and thrives from people who really care, not the people who "don't give a shit and haven't been into them since highschool".

[@PsyphaX09]

I don't mind donating to them but if this becomes a routine then that's another story.

[@deathsgaze5826]

I hate to say this but... You were right. Thank fuck I didn't buy that crap. Now they want to do a new crowdfunding.

[@birddaddydetta]

Hurts to watch this video now more than listening to his voice lmao

[@CountBlagorath]

Lmao Wintersun fan boys might actually brain dead.

[@birddaddydetta]

@@CountBlagorath 5 albums worth of content = brain dead. Impeccable logic lol Either way, we both are going to sit and eat in August so no wonder you're passing the salt

[@CountBlagorath]

@birddaddydetta Genuine, honest question. How are you (as a fan of Wintersun) still able to defend this? I made this video SEVEN years ago and Time II (the album in question when I made this video) is still not out. They're signed to Nuclear Blast who works with bands such as Dimmu Borgir and Nightwish who record FULL orchestras and choirs and have released more in the span of 7 years than Wintersun has ever released. Why are you falling for Jari's bullshit on how he needs a NASA super computer when he's literally recording VSTs with a MIDI keyboard and laying them? Not throwing "salt". You're the one who seems salty by insulting my voice.

[@Fullcolorguilt]

At the end of the day this isn't any different than pre-ordering a game, movie or album. Haters gonna hate I guess

[@CountBlagorath]

Most pre-orders don't say "if you don't buy it now, we're not gonna release it.".

[@Fullcolorguilt]

Most independent projects work exactly like that. Wintersun is attempting to separate from record labels and it's no different than an independent game developer looking for crowd funding. If you're salty about it then simply avoid buying it. But as of right now they're closing in on the initial goal and Wintersun fans are thrilled to see the support.

[@RandomUs3rn4m3]

Right on Ian, they are actually at 105% atm.

[@fortis_3625]

They haven't said that they won't release the album if the goal isn't reached. They said it will be delayed.

[@CountBlagorath]

Except they're glad to accept Big Daddy Nuclear Blast bucks, so no. They're not doing shit separate from the label.

[@icee562]

I'm on the border of Pro Jari Campaign versus Anti Jari, I'll probably end up buying it anyway. I also noticed, he claims his music to be so grandiose with space cinematic elements but at the end of the day. The orchestrations are not even real.

[@jamespeterson4275]

Shawn I'm sure you've already been corrected on here that this is infact the first crowdfund and not a second? Like I said on FB though your main argument is strong in this. I'm just not a fan of insulting people :/But that's subjective territory of course.

[@CountBlagorath]

I just looked into it and it started but it was terminated.

[@jamespeterson4275]

Ohhh ok. Maybe it was a test run that they didn't announce? Ifdk lmao

[@ile222]

Who is this nobody telling fake information and being butthurt as hell. Crowdfunding has been total succes so far anyway.

[@CountBlagorath]

What information is fake?

[@1256813790]

I like Wintersun, they are allright, but what they are doing to supposedly release their new album its a complete disrespect to their fanbase and to everyone else who intends to listen to them. They should simply release the album and just wait for people to buy it with no other condition at all.

[@spiderman233]

I dont see the big problem, if they dont get to the target people will get their money back and they are actually selling something its not like you are giving your money away. They are a good band trying to make their own studio through legit means, whats wrong with that?. At first glance it just seems to me that you are repeating some faulty reason like: "Other bands make good music without their own studio so Wintersun should too". How dare they try to improve their condition, right?.

[@CountBlagorath]

They shouldn't demand their fans fork over the money.

[@Starforsaken101]

People have a choice whether or not to donate lol, come on man.

[@numchacar]

it's what the real fans want and that's what makes a fan right, they will go to the edge of space for the band man.

[@roistot]

yeah what the fuck, demanding that we fork over money for an album. Why should we pay money for music???

[@CountBlagorath]

That isn't my gripe. I don't know if you noticed, but I have a wall of CD. I don't mind paying money for music.

[@nicodiaz627]

6 years later and still nothing. This was a total scam.

[@MarkIV19]

Look man, what i do with my money its my bussiness. If i want to SUPPORT the band and spend 50 euros on them then great! I get a digital copy of their new album + the other 2 remaster and extra material? Well excuse me for being a fucking idiot. In my country cds are expensive as fuck (metallica's new album is 25 euros, for example) and given the fact that i couldnt get their records before and i get to contribute to the band + getting their new and old songs that i never got to buy (all 3 cds here would be even more than 50 euros) i think its a great thing. Its not a sale, its a CONTRIBUTION. Learn the difference and move on with your life. Does this affects you in any single way? No. You sound like "oh, i hate people that spend their money on things I dont consider worth it. Fuck them": exacly the type of metalhead that gives the rest of us bad fame.

[@CountBlagorath]

No. My point is bands are gonna start holding albums at ransom. This is a fucked up practice.

[@roistot]

you keep saying that, but if you actually watched the video NB are releasing it regardless. You are just spreading misinformation to further your agenda.

[@icee562]

Look, I don't have any issues with Wintersun or even Jair himself. Like many, I loved the debut album so much and I still consider it one of the many masterpieces of the metal scene ever released;;BUT, this whole "Wintersun HQs" thing has been pushed beyond its threshold.I thought it would never come to this but this whole crowdfunding thing and the persistent almost "begging" for money has made Jari come off as someone entitled and with massive delusions of grandeur. I've asked myself, "what makes Jaris music so special that he feels the NEED to basically have Hollywood Blockbuster OST quality production?" It just never clicks. Like Count and a lot of other people have said, there are literally thousands of bands that have released phenomenal records-huge sounding records-without asking for literally 1/4 of a million euros. It's obscene. Take Insomnium's Above The Weeping World, an amazing sounding record both production wise and musicianship wise... it didn't not take 1/4 euros to record. That's just one example and now I'm ranting but I respect Jari. He can keep dreaming to one day be the Hans Zimmer of the metal scene and it probably will happen, but just remember that even Hans Zimmer did not end up with multiple million dollar studios around the world but asking fans for support. He earned them.

[@SpookyApparition]

Where does it say they won't release the album if they don't meet their goal?

[@XxXnonameAsDXxX]

Totally agree, unfollowed wintersun and never gonna buy album and merch from them like ever.

[@ladygrim412]

And I honestly just feel bad for all of these poor people that were conned into making a 'donation'. Shit, this band is no better than bullshit religious pastors and churches... They don't truly give a shit about any of you, and DO NOT use metal as their guide. They only play for 100E an hour, not because they bleed it. That alone should be enough to raise an eyebrow here. I tossed anything that even reminds me of Wintersun. Shirts burned into ashes. Who's Wintersun? Never heard of them. Sonata Arctica probably took their lunch money growing up.

[@SApcGUY]

Wow this puts me off them.

[@BravenTooth]

'Murica.

[@dsullivanation]

I'm a huge fan of Wintersun, but I never donated shit to these guys. Time I was great, but I don't think Time II is going to happen which is fine because I prefer their self titled release. But I'm sure as hell not going to pay 50 euro for their new album, that's bullshit.

[@valtteriimmonen7757]

Work?! They have worked. FOR YEARS! They have for the albums you're buying. Is it wrong that they actually want money for their hard work? If people bought their albums in the first place, they wouldn't have to do shit like this.

[@CountBlagorath]

I have no issue with people buying albums. Notice that wall of CDs behind me? I have an issue with holding an album at ransom.

[@valtteriimmonen7757]

+CountBlagorath It's not really being held at a ransom though. It will be delayed.

[@Starforsaken101]

+CountBlagorath, you are absolutely delusional.

[@Ghoulstille]

Yeah like Time I being delayed for 9 fucking years? spare me.

[@johnmotherfuckincoltrane1242]

What the fuck is happening? First Ne Obliviscaris, now this fucking bullshit? Is this just going to be a trend for bands now?

[@ProjectCreativityGuy96]

Count Blagorath? I thought it was CountBlabbering, since that's all you do is Blabber on about things lol (Okay yeah, for a reason, yes). Okay, I'll be fairly honest, some I agree with you on, and some that I don't. We all have opinions, and that's awesome we all do. In my opinion, I don't see anything wrong with a band crowdfunding just for to make the true sound that they have always wanted. Ya know? It's like Ed Sheeran doing a needless crowdfunding campaign, now for that, I truly wouldn't support that junk, because he's already a corporate puppet just like the rest of them in Hollywood, making money fall out of his full pockets. Count, don't get me wrong, you're a great guy Bro, I dig your content on your channel, but please, if you're going to make a rant video, please make sure that it's valid Bro. But look, with all in, your an awesome KZbinr, who has Great and bad arguments, like we all do! ;) \m/

[@esotericthanism4180]

4:28 *cough cough* Wrest *cough cough* Xasthur

[@zigotina]

they are at 99%

[@mallith3693]

50 euro for files on your computer seems much for you? Welcome to the digital age son, How many gamers still buy physical copies of their game? Almost none, they pre-order the next AAA+ game for 60-70 euro to get a digital "license" (not game, just a license to play). You want to make music? Well you get to pay 500-1000 euro for digital instruments and software to record your music. I don't use any physical cd's anymore. I used to use them in my car, well new car came with an usb port, and use my ipod to get my music in my car. People do with their money what they please.

[@Liam-eb6zb]

HOW DOES WINTERSUNS VIDEO ANNOUNCEMENT NOT HAVE DISLIKES!?!?!?! ARE PEOPLE SERIOUSLY FALLING FOR THIS FUCKING SHIT!!?!?!

[@CountBlagorath]

Look at the dislikes I'm getting and the comment on this video.

[@Starforsaken101]

OH MY GOD IT'S ALMOST LIKE PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THEIR MONEY

[@Ghoulstille]

uh oh somebody insulted your favourite band! time to be a caps lock baby about it.

[@Starforsaken101]

I was responding to the original comment in the same manner, you dolt.

[@joonajaakkola3865]

I don't know if you've ever been a professional musician / composer (looking at your record collection, I'd say you haven't) and having to deal with record companies, but I have to tell you it's the most tiresome and infuriating part of trying to do what your love for living. I can't blame Wintersun for wanting to become fully autonomous - it's every single music maker's dream, and since they have the fan base who will gladly provide that, I only feel joy for them. As record sales are plummeting, record companies (even multinationals) have less and less funds for studio- and mixing time, which I can see will greatly interfere with Jari's vision for the sound of the band.

[@Rebella1337]

They never did a crowdfunding until now. 150k reached in 15 hours. Who's dumb now? :P I see you made another video, going to go to that one and see what you have to say.

[@CountBlagorath]

Their fans

[@Rebella1337]

Haha why? You think it's stupid because? You don't think we will get what we are paying for? Anyway, going to copy paste the comment I left on your update vid here and add some to that. If you can't see what Wintersun IS just THAT good, you're quite clearly missing the understanding of some very important patterns in the universe. It is unfortunate Time turned out the way it did, with the project not working out, first because Jari didn't have enough RAM to mix it, and then NB gave him a computer that could do it, and he ended up running out of budget for Time 2. Jari doesn't want to release his albums unless they are how he wants them to be. If you are unable to appreciate his vision, you are obviously going to have a problem with that. If I had the money, the absolutely first thing I would do would be to build his studio for him. I think they are THAT great. To me, nothing can stand up to Wintersun. If you don't see it, that's just sad for you. I am going to do my damndest to make sure I will be having the best time ever listening to the epitome of music by supporting the band I love so much. You can absolutely hold any opinion you want, but I think it is sad you don't feel what I feel when I listen to Wintersun. :/ I think you need to stop being so caught up in ideology and just enjoy things for what they are. You have your ideas of how you think things should be, but they are only artificial standards based on very flawed models. The idea of labels and physical copies is outdated already, and it will only be further buried in the ground in the future. What is going to happen is, people are going to create what they love, and people who love it will donate to them. The change is already present and very apparent in many models of creative arts already. If you think their crowdfunding is going to lead to other bands doing so? So what? Let everyone do what they want, if they get the funding they do, if they don't, they don't. Also, saying somebody is stupid is quite childish, and it clearly shows your lack of understanding of them. If you had any idea of how things work, you would know that people have their reasons for doing the things they do. If you don't make the effort to understand someone, you're not trying to come to some sort of mutual understanding, and you will only distance yourself from people you otherwise could have understood and appreciated. I can understand how you've come to the conclusion you have, but I am also aware that you have left out some key factors and also based some of your opinions on things that are irrelevant or simply ideas you hold on to as valuable for no logical reason. In the end the only thing that really matters is getting to enjoy the things you love. Being salty about things is only going to make you suffer. Anyways, I wish you a happy life.

[@rehtireino]

Thank you for your opinion. I personally disagree with the main point of your video because people can do whatever they want with their money and Winteruns project is deffinitely not the worst thing you could "donate" money for.

[@richardmetalfan94]

Lol at all the dislikes. Bunch of butthurt Wintersun fans.

[@jaysonwitting4671]

I wonder who those 100 bands are 🤔

[@CountBlagorath]

Just look at the Nuclear Blast line up.