I Exposed Another Trackmania Cheater

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WirtualTV

WirtualTV

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 1 900
@cyb3r._.
@cyb3r._. 10 ай бұрын
he actually had me until 4:55 ;-; I thought bro was gonna call racehans or jan a cheater 💀
@IzzyIsntReal
@IzzyIsntReal 10 ай бұрын
Yeah I was worried for a sec but no way that’d be second channel content
@RubyPiec
@RubyPiec 10 ай бұрын
@@IzzyIsntReal And would probably not be called "I Exposed Another Trackmania Cheater", more like "I Exposed The Second Biggest Trackmania Cheater"
@whateverthewheel6623
@whateverthewheel6623 10 ай бұрын
Racehans is my goat I was so scared that wirtual was gonna say it was him
@zdelrod829
@zdelrod829 10 ай бұрын
That would have been a huge plot twist.
@tylerprime6741
@tylerprime6741 10 ай бұрын
Bro I was thinking the same thing, like, you aren't gonna somehow drop the nuke that racehans or Jan is a cheater right? Nope, just some random person
@ryansmock2717
@ryansmock2717 10 ай бұрын
Why do Riolu jokes never get old? They age in slow motion
@vitorrodriguez4278
@vitorrodriguez4278 10 ай бұрын
cringe
@ryansmock2717
@ryansmock2717 10 ай бұрын
@@vitorrodriguez4278 So is cheating for a decade for profit.
@sandmars7
@sandmars7 10 ай бұрын
Ok that joke wasn’t half bad. Ngl it would have made me chuckle if I had been in a better mood.
@Erksah02
@Erksah02 10 ай бұрын
L+ratio​@@vitorrodriguez4278
@Zixivyxity
@Zixivyxity 10 ай бұрын
don’t listen to the haters i actually laughed at this
@Nitidus
@Nitidus 10 ай бұрын
PSA: It's not about 92BOB, guys.
@wttgr
@wttgr 10 ай бұрын
thanks
@ScrapyDo0
@ScrapyDo0 10 ай бұрын
mmm its just another witch hunt
@SimonBauer7
@SimonBauer7 10 ай бұрын
same Witch hunt though.
@jordyboofs5870
@jordyboofs5870 10 ай бұрын
Dammit alright thanks
@RAAZR-
@RAAZR- 10 ай бұрын
Bunch of people that know nothing about top level TM, (myself included), crying witch hunt despite the top 10 all agreeing that the inputs and lines seems sus.. almost as if the real witch hunt is from commenters like you huh@@ScrapyDo0
@Cordovan
@Cordovan 10 ай бұрын
ngl i was SUPER freaking scared that RaceHans was the "cheater" in question the first few minutes of this upload... 😭😭
@BadChess56
@BadChess56 10 ай бұрын
Same
@TakumiJoyconBoyz
@TakumiJoyconBoyz 10 ай бұрын
Same. I was like "Brooooo please no!"
@HerrmannAusHH
@HerrmannAusHH 9 ай бұрын
He is Cheat wait 3 month
@therussiancato
@therussiancato 9 ай бұрын
@@HerrmannAusHH first of all, get some bitc- i mean grammar lessons second of all, any proof that he's cheating?
@Dizastermaster.
@Dizastermaster. 8 ай бұрын
That would have for SURE been a main channel vid, if at all
@hyperventalated
@hyperventalated 10 ай бұрын
As someone who has no idea about any of this or who anyone is, i was trying to predict which of the players was a cheater, and then the third guy came onto the scene with the classic just-showed-up wr.
@Joemamahahahaha821
@Joemamahahahaha821 9 ай бұрын
Does that make it fake/cheated?
@RedRoseKing13
@RedRoseKing13 9 ай бұрын
see this is my biggest issue within TM community, it's pretty much just a tight knit bros club it seems a lot of the time. like if somebody who hasn't chatted with the community or posted hundreds of records ever gets a record or gets into Div1 COTD they are automatically questioned by everybody and assumed a cheater. Like to them it's so unlikely that somebody has grinded away hundreds of hours just by themselves to get one singular record@@Joemamahahahaha821
@BarackLesnar
@BarackLesnar 9 ай бұрын
​@@Joemamahahahaha821sometimes. rarely will a cheater take the effort to fake practice and grinding. but when they do it's extra funny
@Joemamahahahaha821
@Joemamahahahaha821 9 ай бұрын
@@BarackLesnar So the answer is no… it doesnt make it faked/cheated. If sometimes this does mean it’s cheating, and something it doesn’t, then it s a no. This one fact is not convincing in the slightest towards him cheating. Nothing in this video is convincing that he deserved to have his time removed.
@gu244
@gu244 9 ай бұрын
​@@Joemamahahahaha821 no, they can't say for sure its cheated, but it is suspicious to say the least.
@marekmak385
@marekmak385 10 ай бұрын
After 3 years I still can not belive it that tortugo is Adam Kajumi
@samik_456
@samik_456 10 ай бұрын
yeah he got worse and worse over time
@kubamaly4070
@kubamaly4070 10 ай бұрын
ong
@oh-ox9sj
@oh-ox9sj 10 ай бұрын
it really is tragic
@MenkoDany
@MenkoDany 10 ай бұрын
Brother I had no idea. Because of your comment I learned he lived not far from where I grew up too. Crazy.
@NaziOfficer666
@NaziOfficer666 10 ай бұрын
Yeah same, i also can't believe he left to become a casual influencer
@Drakoninarius
@Drakoninarius 10 ай бұрын
Why do we automatucally assume that that guys was not playing for 10 years? He might have been playing other Trackmania games rather then TMNF
@Zinozad
@Zinozad 8 ай бұрын
This. I play the OG Trackmania games all the time, and although they're different from modern Trackmania, I can definitely set good times without having any activity for the past 10 years in modern Trackmania. I can definitely see myself grind the hell out of a race and post the record only when I've got a 1st place run. It's not even a very hard race. People like Wirtual think they're gods driving the stadium cars perfectly. Bitch please, try doing a perfect run with the desert car which bumps everywhere all the time in unpredictable way. Trackmania 2020 is far easier than the original games.
@ERNINTENDO
@ERNINTENDO Ай бұрын
This is not as important as the crazy inputs but I'm pretty tm exchange tracks all submitted records so he probably just had not played
@ripit.3457
@ripit.3457 25 күн бұрын
@@ERNINTENDO”crazy inputs”? you mean the ONE flick?
@brianbethea3069
@brianbethea3069 10 ай бұрын
When you started out only talking about Racehans and Jan, I went into despair mode wondering which one was a cheater.
@anubis520
@anubis520 10 ай бұрын
same
@Skynertia
@Skynertia 2 ай бұрын
Gotta be honest, stuff like this makes me not want to improve at Trackmania. Random guy shows up and puts up an improbable time (that very likely might have been cheated, but not blatantly or verifiably) and because he's not a part of the clique it gets scrutinized until it gets removed based on one frame of input and a bunch of people who have skin in the game's hunches on having a different lucky line. Guilty until proven innocent by a council of people who have financial incentives to have you not be there seems like a bad system.
@TheFrozenthia
@TheFrozenthia 2 ай бұрын
What…?
@zacknair6202
@zacknair6202 17 күн бұрын
Very based, imagin the clique rage at this rando to scrutinize so intensely. Seems desperate.
@PoisonWoah
@PoisonWoah 10 ай бұрын
wow he moved back to Norway, that's crazy.
@ethanharr4795
@ethanharr4795 10 ай бұрын
He still lives in Norway. Definitely not Malta, who would want to live somewhere so temperate and sunny?
@coaiemandushman1079
@coaiemandushman1079 10 ай бұрын
@@ethanharr4795 someone who cannot stand heat, like me for example
@Blackwing2345635
@Blackwing2345635 10 ай бұрын
@@coaiemandushman1079this. Plus the air temperature is not the only thing countries could provide
@coaiemandushman1079
@coaiemandushman1079 10 ай бұрын
@@Blackwing2345635 tru
@tmaster2151
@tmaster2151 9 ай бұрын
Watch the end
@Henry.25
@Henry.25 10 ай бұрын
13:08 “If you want to try this never-before-done shortcut” Me looking at my membrane keyboard that cost me $14: That's my chance to shine 😂😂😂😂😂
@MudakTheMultiplier
@MudakTheMultiplier 10 ай бұрын
That's the great thing about trackmania nations forever, there really isn't an advantage with any input type.
@Thrano
@Thrano 10 ай бұрын
14 Dollars on a keyboard? That's expensive! I got my... *searches for the brand* ISY keyboard for about 6.99 like five years ago.
@raamy2426
@raamy2426 10 ай бұрын
@@MudakTheMultiplier why ? lol wont a keyboard that take 10 ms less to send input to your car be better ? and is there no steering ?
@Delimon007
@Delimon007 10 ай бұрын
@@MudakTheMultiplier This is definitely not true. . . It is FAR harder to race on a keyboard where you only have an on/off switch and not way to be precise. It's like saying a controller is competitive with a wheel when it's just not.
@ZoMTDU
@ZoMTDU 10 ай бұрын
@@Delimon007 I know only of one game where the keyboard is MUCH faster than a controller or wheel and its in my name :D
@DrDrao
@DrDrao 10 ай бұрын
I dunno. To me, it looks like a player who's not quite as good at the game as the best of the best, but got lucky with bugs and such. Like the odd lines make sense if he's just worse. The odd input could be a controller glitch. In my mind, there's no way a slowed game speed or a tas makes that kind of input(It's too fast even for a slowed game speed, and there's nonway a tasser leaves that in. The run also didn't look tassed.) In my mind, the thing that makes more sense is that a player who's really good at the game, but not quite that good, started grinding the shortcut before he had the lines down completely, and just happened to get a run where everything lined up.
@tigertech8865
@tigertech8865 9 ай бұрын
If he was trying to contest the take down I would understand that point, but he didn't even try to give an explanation after getting a world record... I think it was the right call
@DrDrao
@DrDrao 9 ай бұрын
@@tigertech8865 Nah, I definitely think the mods were overeager on this one. Why should he be treated with this much higher of a standard of evidence just because he played a bit differently? Remember, the evidence is, "the lines weren't top player level", and "These two or three frames look suspicious". It wasn't even like the suspect frames were for a particularly important bit. It also cleared the competitive patch, and it's not like they have a reason to believe the patch may have been malfunctioning. Finally, they don't even have any idea of how he might have cheated, or even what was cheated. They really have nothing to go on, outside of suboptimal play, a hardware bug, and vibes.
@baertorv
@baertorv 9 ай бұрын
or maybe he just stopped playing and aren't looking at his TMX dms.
@ww-pw6di
@ww-pw6di 9 ай бұрын
@@DrDrao The conclusion is then that every single WR run that's been submitted that has a "full steer to one side, followed by instant steer to another side" have to be removed for cheating. That sounds really fun and I can't wait to see wirt crying about it.
@gradient5319
@gradient5319 9 ай бұрын
A run where everything lines up, from my casual trackmania experience, actually happens sometimes.
@billymcmedic4221
@billymcmedic4221 9 ай бұрын
In other examples of being dodgy with inputs, which is what is being accused in this video, it’s not just one small blip but a pattern of behaviour over a number of runs and patterns throughout singular runs that leads to the conclusion that it’s more likely than not that the record was cheated. Using the information you provide on the accused history, let’s paint a picture. An old TMNF player, played it on release, submitted a few scores, but kinda fell away from the game for a long while, only to pick it up again within the last couple of years. They discover a potential shortcut that hasn’t been utilised in a WR record run on this map from other people posting about it, and decides to just sink some time into it to give it a try. They haven’t been religiously hunting the map and, while possibly aware of the optimal lines, hasn’t quite gotten them nailed down. Then one day, they hit a perfect shortcut and desperately try to cling on to the run, small mistake results in a sub optimal line going into that grass corner. We don’t know if that’s their normal line considering the lack of other replays uploaded, or maybe their trying to practice that part more to get it further in line with the optimal run, but whatever, the advantage gained in the shortcut is enough for them to cling on to the lead despite the mistake, and at the end they clutch and get WR. Realising they got WR, they upload it to the leaderboard via the official channels, and it gets verified by the official anticheat. From context clues you give, this individual is not active in the tmnf speedrunning community, not a discord member, not a member of your little clique. And because their not part of an unofficial community, their run gets scrutinised much harsher than anyone else’s simply because of “bad vibes” and “not being a known player”. Let me pause here, does this mean that for someone’s run to be accepted by the community, they must participate in stuff outside of the game itself? And why does the speedrunning community consider itself above the official anticheat? Doesn’t this situation by default mean every single run validated by this anticheat should be considered suspect as well since the community believes that the anticheat is not effective at catching out cheaters? Anyway. How was the runner contacted for comment? What means were employed to get in contact with this runner? You said the run came out of nowhere, so it’s safe to assume this person doesn’t have any known means of contact. Plus, this isn’t even delving into the material accusation itself. If I’m correct, the accusation is that the runner featured used illegal means to go from full left steering to partial right steering within .01 of a second, at that 1 specific wall bang. First question, do you know without any doubt he that the person was using or presenting themselves as solely using a stick controller, where such an input would be impossible? Is it possible action keys were being utilised in some way? Second, as others here have pointed out, can you be certain that there is no possibility that hardware issues such as stick drift cannot in any way be responsible for a momentary blip of weirdness in the logged inputs? Third, in the individuals previously uploaded runs, is there any evidence of similar discrepancies that may establish a history of potential behaviour that could reinforce the accusation being made here? And finally, do you think it is fair to require players to actively participate in a random online community in order for their runs to be accepted even after already being accepted by the official anticheat? Do you not think that this is a form of gatekeeping, where just because someone is unknown means that any records are automatically suspect? How can we trust that you and others in such a community aren’t using your influential positions to secure your own positions and keep away “outsiders”. This reeks of elitism and gatekeeping, and I cannot in good conscience support a KZbinr or a community that participates in such behaviour, to the point of believing themselves to be above the official systems developed by the developers of the game to ensure fair play. I can believe that if any other “more noteable” player had gotten the exact same run, people would see that it had been authenticated and just write off the blip and sub optimal line as being an unlucky bug and a small error that didn’t ultimately matter, and then go and continue hunting the map incorporating the new strategy and combining it with a more optimal start and ending. But no they would rather spend time and effort nitpicking and demanding that someone engage in a community they may have 0 interest in or knowledge off just to justify themselves when they were already vindicated by the anticheat. It’s very possible that they got that run, decided they were done and just moved on, completely unknowing of the shitstorm that would ensue. And finally, what’s the motive here? They uploaded a run, didn’t make a stink on KZbin, Reddit etc on beating the record, just uploaded the run and move on, no attention seeking, no attempting to gain personal glory or praise, just beat the record, probably thought “oh cool, may as well upload that” and then moved on. Motive, means, opportunity. The opportunity is a free space considering it’s the bloody internet, but no motive has been established and no concrete means have been proven by the accusers, just vauge postulations about maybes or what ifs, nothing that could be considered beyond all reasonable doubt.
@Joemamahahahaha821
@Joemamahahahaha821 9 ай бұрын
Thoughtful and well said.
@kwaizy1349
@kwaizy1349 8 ай бұрын
Not thoughtful and well said - stupid and ignorant is more like it. People cheat for all sorts of reason that seems ridiculous. And coming out of nowhere is not "elitism" it is sound logic. Theese guys have 1000 of hours, on single maps alone, and yet the anticheat is not reliable, it is made by a community member for christ sake, on a old af game. I dont know how they tried to contact him, but considering the massive cheating scandals as of recent this is very sus, and i think they made the right call.
@Joemamahahahaha821
@Joemamahahahaha821 8 ай бұрын
@@kwaizy1349 so what in this video convinced you he was cheating?
@mr.someone5679
@mr.someone5679 8 ай бұрын
I agree with you 100%
@johnsonresponse5047
@johnsonresponse5047 7 ай бұрын
Well said
@rikolia
@rikolia 10 ай бұрын
The guilty until innocent approach, very bold
@lanbroghini
@lanbroghini 9 ай бұрын
It does seem very cliquey. Unless you've been here since 2008 you can't possibly be better than me 😮
@abeoist
@abeoist 9 ай бұрын
It's not guilty until proven innocent, though. The input is considered not humanly possible, so that's enough to be proven guilty on it's own. It's more of a: "According to what we think is possible based on tons of data, you're out of line. Prove us we're wrong and you're welcome to have the record" Otherwise you can say that about every cheated record and make an argument that since a person didn't get caught red handed they automatically are innocent. It doesn't work like that.
@rikolia
@rikolia 9 ай бұрын
@@abeoist You have 0.25 seconds of "odd looking controls" and a weird angle being taken at a turn, that's ridiculous for an accusation.
@abeoist
@abeoist 9 ай бұрын
@@rikoliaIt's not at all ridiculous if you take into consideration the fact that a minute change in controls can avoid a bug or set yourself up for a smooth line that is otherwise very difficult to achieve. In fact take a look at any bug exploits in this game and I bet you can't tell me 0.25 sec doesn't make a difference in any of those. I'm not saying the guy is guilty of cheating for sure. I'm saying the decision makes sense given past circumstances and the 'weirdness' of the lines and inputs.
@rikolia
@rikolia 9 ай бұрын
@@abeoist I'm not saying 0.25 can't make a difference in a bug, I'm saying out of 37.94 seconds, there is 0.25 seconds you find suspect and it's not even the part he made a big deal out of. 0.66 percent. 2 years ago, guy sees a wildly flickering UI on a WELL KNOWN player for years and that needs months of investigation, careful consideration of every possible reason as to why that may be and several players coming out for having cheated the exact same way before they're absolutely sure that it was cheating. Now, you find ONE(1) flick on some unknown player, "ah that's good enough get him out of here!" I disagree with such measures and find it bull.
@1e1001
@1e1001 10 ай бұрын
i think that weird grass line is probably just like, their own strategy. if someone was faking a wr they'd probably try to make it look more legitimate / blend in more by following strategies used by other top players, but having their own method to get through an area also just makes sense. that weird controller snap is definitely suspicious but unless it's what actually lets the shortcut be possible it could just be a lag spike or similar, i've had tmnf get pretty stuttery for me in the past
@darthgorthaur258
@darthgorthaur258 9 ай бұрын
Indeed. This stinks of them throwing a tantrum because somebody not in their little clic came along and beat them...and it never once crossed their minds that maybe its because he isnt doing the same thing as them is why he got the wr...😂😂😂
@KaavjeSahe
@KaavjeSahe 9 ай бұрын
TBH making a controller press isn't like inhumane or something humans cannot do in like 1 hundredth of a second. Chess players play 50 moves long games in 1 second, in a mode called hyperbullet, and Magnus Carlsen makes moves with mouse in like 3 or 4 thousandth of a second. I personally make such moves in like Twelfth-thousandths of a second. If he was seeing my games or that of any chess player, he would also call them cheater, thinking making moves across a board in 3 thousandths of second isn't possible.
@ww-pw6di
@ww-pw6di 9 ай бұрын
Lest we forget controllers are garbage, especially the bargain bin brands and they experience all kinds of weird outputs. This video was an exceptionally shit take from him.
@schwingedeshaehers
@schwingedeshaehers 9 ай бұрын
are you sure, that it is without premives? ​@@KaavjeSahe
@mp7311
@mp7311 9 ай бұрын
@@KaavjeSahe "Magnus Carlsen makes moves with mouse in like 3 or 4 thousandth of a second." Absolutely not. Stop making shit up. The reason super GMs can play that fast is because they pre-move. The fastest recorded reaction time ever is .1 seconds. 10 times slower than the 1hundreth you claim, and 100 times slower than supposedly magnus lmao.
@CenturionRower
@CenturionRower 10 ай бұрын
I'd run a TAS with the EXACT movements without that .01 snap right steer and see if it results in the same, or similar run. Would make a hell of a difference in determining how much that steering input actually affected the game. For all we know its a shitty controller (that, yes, can send false data to the computer, game, etc) and the dude has no way of proving how they did it and just, didnt respond because he knew he would get ass blasted because "oh surely because they can't provide definitive proof means they cheated". Just food for thought. ESPECIALLY if the only basis is "it felt weird" and they didnt use the same ending line, you literally said yourself that its entirely possible it was a "fight or flight" response after taking a bad entry line, could have absolutely been adrenaline from hitting a clean wall bang into a clean shortcut. Honestly, knowing whether or not every other input EXCEPT that minor right steer results in a WR run (assume they let go, and the "snap back" from the stick caused the controller to bug) is a HUGE determining factor and I'm honestly confused no one tried it.... Or they did, it DID result in a WR run and you just decided to not mention that particular fact. I'm not trying to defend the guy, keep in mind I do not care, but "it feels weird" doesnt exactly work in this case when you all are mentioning that it in fact passes the in game test AND your entire grounds for removing the run is 1 minor input that may or may not have actually affected the run. And your clickbaiting a quarter million people into thinking this person is a cheater off of a "feeling". If its cheated and it broke the in-game comp validation, fix the in-game validation, if its a minor, feasible controller glitch (phantom input) yall should AT LEAST do your due diligence in determining whether or not those inputs without the minor right steer give the same output. IIRC the TAS tools are locked down so would that person even have any way of saying "hey it was a controller phantom input, here is proof the run without that input results in a WR"
@KaavjeSahe
@KaavjeSahe 9 ай бұрын
I did, it made no difference, it instead made the run even faster without that input. That input of that steering made it such that car lost connection to ground for 0.003 seconds and lost acceleration, if the same inputs were taken to account without that sudden shift, the run was completed 0.02 seconds even faster.
@giusepperesponte8077
@giusepperesponte8077 8 ай бұрын
THANK YOU. There is no words for how much I agree with everything you said. I was getting upset watching this, Wirtual clearly doesn’t really get how an analog stick plays. The smooth movements he describes are when you tilt the stick to the top of its housing and use it to guide the stick for smooth steering, the sudden ones can be anything from very slight stick drift which the dead zone isn’t compensating for, or it could be a snap back. It’s not even impossible that it was truly just a precise nudge. There’s absolutely not enough evidence here to remove the record, it’s honestly disgusting. I really can’t add much to what you said, you perfectly captured my same objections while watching this. So refreshing to read after watching this.
@Evelyn27Official
@Evelyn27Official 7 ай бұрын
@@giusepperesponte8077 unfortunately that's how it is. If you're not part of their best buddies discord club, you don't get to have a record. :/
@marekvojta9648
@marekvojta9648 7 ай бұрын
I fully agree with you in normal world if I accuse someone from cheating I HAVE TO PROVIDE evidence to prove I'm right. What Wirtual is saying (and totally disgusting me) is that I can say that someone is cheating and HE HAS TO PROVE HIS INNOCENCE. How the hell is that guy supposed to prove his innocence? Shame on you Wirtual and all of those proplayers which (it seems) cannot loose againts someone or better said noone.
@Evelyn27Official
@Evelyn27Official 7 ай бұрын
@@marekvojta9648 tbh wirtual is your typical eboy, lots of egotistic shit that you don't notice until you start noticing it and then you can't go back. he has good videos sure, and he's basically the only dd2 streamer on youtube, but damn i wish he were a more decent person
@mikayla_collie
@mikayla_collie 9 ай бұрын
7:05 why does him not posting replays for 10 years mean he quit for 10 years? maybe he just wasn't posting replays... >_>
@cynart6598
@cynart6598 9 ай бұрын
because this man just has a vendetta with all who dont play the game like the majority of players
@sebseb9890
@sebseb9890 9 ай бұрын
You don't beat a wr without playing everyday and if you're playing everyday you are probably getting top 10 finishes & posting them, talking to people in discords and having fun with the community. Of which none were being done
@mikayla_collie
@mikayla_collie 9 ай бұрын
@@sebseb9890 you even said it yourself. "are probably". meaning you just acknowledged that not everyone does that. Being active in a community surrounding a game does not hinder your ability to play them well...
@riccardoorlando2262
@riccardoorlando2262 9 ай бұрын
The non participation in the community and the weird grass line aren't proof, but they are suspicious enough to warrant a closer scrutiny of the replay. To me, if that's all there was, I'd call the record legitimate. However, the teleporting controller input is definitely closer to being proof. Enough, at least, to justify requiring additional proof of the record's legitimacy before allowing it on a leaderboard.
@tigertech8865
@tigertech8865 9 ай бұрын
Pretty sure he means quit as in quit being active and grinding the game. He probably still played it casually
@michaelcloss565
@michaelcloss565 5 ай бұрын
I'd like to see proof that it is cheated rather than "prove you are innocent", what a fun justice system that would be... I mean the only thing we have is 1 instance of "questionable" input which while possible he cheated isn't definitive proof.
@HXSKlmfao
@HXSKlmfao 4 ай бұрын
oh my god bro it’s trackmania not the Supreme Court, grow tf up
@zeusymoosey3348
@zeusymoosey3348 17 күн бұрын
​​@@HXSKlmfaothey broke someone's gameplay down frame by frame, look at his inputs to the hundredth of a second, then removed their time because they didn't like it. But you'll say it "isn't the supreme court" to defend that? You sound intelligent.
@HXSKlmfao
@HXSKlmfao 16 күн бұрын
@ you think frame by frame is an extreme form of verification?? that’s one of the easier things to do lmfao
@aqua-bery
@aqua-bery 10 ай бұрын
I feel like the only reasonable piece of evidence is the inputs. The rest are literally just happenstance
@kakuzu12345
@kakuzu12345 13 күн бұрын
Consumer electronics also suck ass. Probably a bigger chance it was an electronic issue more than it was him cheating inputs during the easiest part of the run lol
@heisenbird1
@heisenbird1 12 күн бұрын
It feels to me like a bunch of top players just didnt like a new guy coming and getting a WR with an unconventional racing line. There absolutely needs to be more concrete evidence.
@kerianndoassans
@kerianndoassans 10 ай бұрын
After the infamous 0/10 yasuo power spike, we have the 10 years pause Jules power spike
@nyxregime
@nyxregime 10 ай бұрын
💀
@raulmenraki
@raulmenraki 10 ай бұрын
He is not a League of Legend Streamer, please go back to the shadow realm
@EverSnaxolotl
@EverSnaxolotl 10 ай бұрын
@@raulmenraki what, people referring a different game on a youtube channel about a game? How could they?!
@scarecrowking666
@scarecrowking666 9 ай бұрын
​@@raulmenraki you must not be fun at parties
@yanbilleter3174
@yanbilleter3174 8 ай бұрын
It's kind of sad to see that the trust in the community has been destroyed.
@dotonthehorizon9620
@dotonthehorizon9620 4 ай бұрын
Every game is now ruined by cheaters. Cheating tools are too easy to get now. It made me stop gaming at all, since its now impossible to know and im always suspicious of everything...
@amusedapple4933
@amusedapple4933 28 күн бұрын
@@dotonthehorizon9620that’s an overreaction I think.
@xKrizel
@xKrizel 10 ай бұрын
1:50 „This is a full three thenth of a second fater than that“ might be the most Trackmania sentence i‘ve ever heard 😂💀
@grimreefer213
@grimreefer213 10 ай бұрын
That’s a massive amount of time in trackmania
@LeyvatenLoop
@LeyvatenLoop 10 ай бұрын
3 tenths is a lot in normal racing too. On a track where 1 lap is usually around 2 minutes for example, being 3 tenths slower per lap means you'll be almost a full second further behind every 6 minutes, and that builds up to a gargantuan gap very quickly. On some racing series, like Brazillian Stock Car (spec series with tube frame chassis and NA V8s on normal road circuits) qualifying times are sometimes so tight that the entire grid is less than 3 tenths apart
@StevenHawkingsSpitrag
@StevenHawkingsSpitrag 10 ай бұрын
I was gonna say, 3 tenths of a second are rookie numbers in f1 and motoGP 😂 (unless you’re verstappen😭)
@Exponaut_R-01
@Exponaut_R-01 10 ай бұрын
TMNF is one of the most competitive games ever to not use milliseconds.
@lonesome3958
@lonesome3958 10 ай бұрын
Atleast tm2020 changed that
@lordenglish2654
@lordenglish2654 9 ай бұрын
So one input anomaly and a racing line in the final sector that you don't like constitute solid evidence of cheating? The former doesn't seem robust enough to be considered cheating and the latter seems like a preference issue.
@Joemamahahahaha821
@Joemamahahahaha821 9 ай бұрын
I would even say the latter seems like some confirmation bias
@cebulak941
@cebulak941 4 ай бұрын
yes its enough. he definitely cheated at the wallbang, probably a macro
@krukblood-axe3649
@krukblood-axe3649 4 ай бұрын
@@cebulak941 It really is not enough, or at least it shouldn't be. There's any number of reasons it could've happened, and the guy probably just doesn't care enough to dispute any of it. A lot of people just play the game they like, without giving too much of a crap about what people online think or say. The likeliest reason for the anomalous input is probably a combination of keyboard and controller, both can be connected at the same time. Even a brush of the hand on the keyboard could explain the anomaly, as the inputs get confused.
@meraldlag4336
@meraldlag4336 3 ай бұрын
@@RoachDoggGrannywall bang is one of the worst parts of c02
@meraldlag4336
@meraldlag4336 3 ай бұрын
@@krukblood-axe3649the steer wasn’t -65536 to 65535, it was -65536 to “analog input between 0 and 65535”. If his keyboard produced that, then his keyboard is not allowed to play on
@Joemamahahahaha821
@Joemamahahahaha821 9 ай бұрын
This video is entirely unconvincing.
@musicaddicted777
@musicaddicted777 8 ай бұрын
It's not foolproof that's for sure but just by that one input we can infer A LOT, how can you explain the controller like gradual steering inputs and then in contrast a pin perfect, non gradual steering input? It's physically impossible on a controller, well i at least I couldn't explain if i was the player trying to prove it as clean but I definitely have an explanation or two: first, he macroed that specific input at that exact time or most likely he recorded the run in slow motion AND macroed in the input
@ladian5475
@ladian5475 8 ай бұрын
@@musicaddicted777 Yeah but why would he cheat that singular, seemingly insignificant input? Genuine question I don't know this game very well
@rockman1942
@rockman1942 8 ай бұрын
@@musicaddicted777 people deleted that weird input and the result are even faster than the uploaded one, and please google the impossible speed run of mario 64, some skip is impossible until a electron from space crashed your chips in the timing exactly u needed, thats just lucky
@vilian9185
@vilian9185 8 ай бұрын
​@@ladian5475maybe he didn't want to get that start bounce perfectly every run(that bouce is hard) and the first part of the run he feeds the game these inputs, and he edited the script in that part to get the perfectly bounce, and after that he plays normally
@RickyPro888
@RickyPro888 8 ай бұрын
I was hesitant until the steering inputs
@kitthekat6844
@kitthekat6844 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for the closure at the end of the video!
@Carson_Neiss
@Carson_Neiss 10 ай бұрын
Here is my theory that would explain the run. If Jules is using TAS tools capable of a save state it seems that the point where the inputs go crazy is where the save state is loaded. They probably were lightly steering upon loading the save state to try to get a better line without realizing it would show on the replay. It comes right after the wall bang which I assume is a point of high variance that probably takes a number of tries to get right, and based on other details it seems this is a somewhat inexperienced player that probably doesn't want to retry the run just to get a good wall bang when the shortcut is that difficult. So by loading after the wall bang the player only has to get a good landing for the shortcut and finish with enough space in front of the record. I can't really explain the weird line on the grass to dirt transition, but it is likely due to the players inexperience and some preference to the alternate line. I find this HIGHLY LIKELY to be cheated. The only explanation outside of a save state would be some alternate steering input. It seems Jules is using an analog input for most of the run but at the anomaly, they would have to switch from the normal analog input, to another input. For example going from using a controller joystick to pressing a keyboard key or controller button which would do a soft right input as seen. There are many other ways this could be done, but it seems odd to need a specific amount of right steering at that point in the run. I assume sticking to a normal analog input would not lose time compared to the inputs seen in the run so why would anyone need a specific soft right steering input like that. Seems really fishy and more complicated than the save state explanation. I don't know anything about Trackmania TAS tools but if anyone could let me know if they have save states that could be used in a run and pass validation, please let me know so I know that my theory might be possible. DISCLAIMER: I am not accusing Jules of cheating and acknowledge the possibility that the run is legitimate. This is merely discussion on how the run could have been performed and considers cheating methods as well as non-cheating methods that the run could be achieved. i am not a Trackmania run validation expert. These are only my opinions.
@leonardschungel2689
@leonardschungel2689 10 ай бұрын
I dont think they have savestates in TAS tools but they can replay inputs in super speed to get back to the point of the track. That could be used. Safestates was my first thought to. Play until the wall bang and find the correct inputs get a good exit without much speed loss. Then savestates to avoid the landing bug in the shortcut and another savestate for the difficult transition to dirt. Other top players dont use his weird line because it tilts the car and you get a slow down. If you can safestate you can retry that section until you dont get a slow down.
@ElQuintoVv
@ElQuintoVv 10 ай бұрын
joystick drift its more realistic, and if he dont play for like 10 years...
@jasonb6570
@jasonb6570 10 ай бұрын
@@ElQuintoVvJoystick drift doesn't account for the binary inputs we saw in that slow-mo.
@Unkn4wN_TM
@Unkn4wN_TM 10 ай бұрын
​​@@jasonb6570 It does. I've had stick drift in the past in other games where the input change was instantaneous, for example I'm moving it to the left, but the input jumps to the right in a split second with no analogue curve. Really only happens with controllers that are old and used a lot tho, since the more common stick drift has a curve and only drifts to where you're moving the stick or drifts when the stick is idle. Anyways, I did really use to have a controller that had teleport like stick drift and it was very bizarre and annoying to me. No idea why it happens, but I assume if the stick wears enough, sometimes when you move it, it can touch the sensor on the other side and cause an instant teleport kinda like if you touch your phone screen with one finger and then from another place. I don't know why it happens like I said, but I know it can happen, so as long as there is no additional proof of this record being cheated, I am a firm believer it is fully legit
@filipkohout4704
@filipkohout4704 10 ай бұрын
​@@Unkn4wN_TMIt still seems really fishy, because why would you grind a record and then just ignore everyone, when your record is at stake. Its just weird
@themelzymusic
@themelzymusic 10 ай бұрын
My old controller did something very similar to this because of a stick drift issue. Not saying that’s what it is, I’m very curious as to why they never talked to anyone about the record tho
@WadaMalone
@WadaMalone 9 ай бұрын
you can't set a record with a drift issue controller controller though
@WadaMalone
@WadaMalone 9 ай бұрын
@@brunch. It's like setting a world record in 400m sprint on a sprained ankle. Perfectly possible if your legs move fast enough. So who knows, maybe he did win a sniper competition with a crooked barrel. I just see it as an additional suspicious circumstance though
@decklanappelbee7397
@decklanappelbee7397 9 ай бұрын
​@@WadaMalonestick drift has almost no effect as long as you hold the stick centred which most people I know that play on controller do
@William-Tyndale
@William-Tyndale 3 ай бұрын
​@@WadaMalone some stick drift can not exist at all except momentarily after releasing the stick as it rebounds to center. Some can only happen when the thumb stick rests a certain way and you can adjust it to where it'll stop completely. Some only happens when the thumb stick is stuck pressed down a little after using the button part and you have to pull it out to get it to stop. And as it has been pointed out stick drift does nothing (unless it is really really bad) as long as you're actively engaging the stick or holding it centered.
@zami001001
@zami001001 10 ай бұрын
Playing devils advocate for moment, that suspicious inputs seem like just letting go of the stick entirely and letting it bounce past the deadzone of the controller. I don't know if the reply would pick it up like that but its the only idea I could think of. I don't know if the run was legit or not but thats not for me to decide.
@arkadyshersky8704
@arkadyshersky8704 10 ай бұрын
You'd still have a frame or two of the stick springing back from full left.
@zami001001
@zami001001 10 ай бұрын
@@arkadyshersky8704 I think he said the interval for the recording was 0.1s, which to me sounds possible if its timed well. I didn't test it obviously, but even if I did it would vary controller to controller anyway.
@arkadyshersky8704
@arkadyshersky8704 10 ай бұрын
@@zami001001 Fair point.
@Blackwing2345635
@Blackwing2345635 10 ай бұрын
@@zami001001not tenth, hundredth. Replays are recorded at 100 inputs per second.
@fabians7751
@fabians7751 10 ай бұрын
A bounce would show differently. Thats basic physics. If it would bounce that fast from 100% to -25% or similar values, it would also need to bounce away from that -25% just as fast, as a controller stick works like a pendulum. However, we can see that input being held for a small timeframe with apparently perfect accuracy, if I understood wirtual correctly.
@cHeLiosss
@cHeLiosss 6 ай бұрын
not uploading for 10 years means that he didnt play TM at all for 10 years? interesting.
@glub1381
@glub1381 9 ай бұрын
Anyone else remember the good old days when you needed actual evidence to get a run taken down due to alleged cheating? Now it seems any newcomer setting a record is automatically guilty until proven innocent. This dude got his run taken down over a different line and ONE suspicious input. One. His controller could have bugged and sent a weird input, among countless other rational explanations for that, but with the current paranoia and mob mentality running rampant in the community Jules was doomed from the start. This is just sad.
@mertletheturtle22
@mertletheturtle22 10 ай бұрын
I disagree with the gun ho mentality within tm. If, given the replay and input data is publicly available AND the only thing you have is a gut feel after 1 year of breaking down the inputs then time to look closer at your values as a community.
@Apple_Beshy
@Apple_Beshy 8 ай бұрын
Man that is a weak arse evidence
@DuskieTheBear
@DuskieTheBear 6 ай бұрын
and somehow, some way, your grammar ended up being worse. Imagine that.
@inerpiece
@inerpiece 9 ай бұрын
Guilty until proven innocent... I guess a new approach...
@christianmoore7932
@christianmoore7932 9 ай бұрын
Yeah this dude got cheated
@619tmFALCON
@619tmFALCON 9 ай бұрын
Hm, I don't think it's exactly that, because there's a few weird things, and since it was not enough proof it was neither guilty nor innocent. It just was that more evidence was required, and it was never provided.
@RigRacers
@RigRacers 9 ай бұрын
@@619tmFALCON there was no evidence in the first place, its all just profiling to have an excuse to look deeper, and still finding nothing, so he makes a video publicly calling him a cheater to instead drag his reputation through the dirt and ruin any come up he might've had.
@mricci07
@mricci07 8 ай бұрын
Thats simple, if someone with a weird-ass history in the game has a suspected record, they should prove they arent guilty. If an olympic athlete is suspected of using illegal substances to gain an advantage, they must prove they are innocent, otherwise they cannot compete. Same logic here
@GHFMFTS
@GHFMFTS 8 ай бұрын
@@mricci07 they don’t have weird history though. Why do they have to post records and participate in the community when you have clowns like virtual claiming everyone’s a cheater because he caught one 7 years ago
@bloodspatteredguitar
@bloodspatteredguitar 5 ай бұрын
I think the important thing is to keep an open mind. This has not been proven to be a cheated run, it merely has unanswered questions. As such, the potentially reversible disqualification on the balance of probabilities seems right. If stronger sanctions were enacted, like banning him from uploading future runs at all I would want evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Personally, on a human level, I think it feels legit. But the question marks are reasonable too, and leaving the run as effectively "pending detailed authentication" is the right call by the community I think.
@maxchess6734
@maxchess6734 10 ай бұрын
This input is probably possible by trying to go to 0% steering by mashing the controller stick to the bottom or to the top, overshooting the value again : you can see he was still panicking with the steering after the wallbang, going from 90% steering to one direction to 10% in the other, and there is smooth steering in between the 2 snaps. (check at 9:57) The run should be considered valid
@Invitzer
@Invitzer 10 ай бұрын
All of the people saying nice vid after 30 seconds 😂😂
@cosmicwonderer6269
@cosmicwonderer6269 10 ай бұрын
Nice comment
@alphahawk325
@alphahawk325 10 ай бұрын
Nice reply ​@@cosmicwonderer6269
@alphahawk325
@alphahawk325 10 ай бұрын
​@@cosmicwonderer6269 nice reply
@KagedDJ
@KagedDJ 10 ай бұрын
nice vid
@FatManEirik
@FatManEirik 10 ай бұрын
They know🤷‍♂️
@cime62
@cime62 9 ай бұрын
Threatening players that their record will be deleted if they remain anonymous is morally awful. Being anonymous on the web is a right, and you should not get punished for that.
@m4rt_
@m4rt_ 9 ай бұрын
I don't think they are wanting Jules to reveal their identity. From how I understand it, they want Jules to explain how they got inputs like that legitimately. Though I do agree with you, anonymity on the web is a right.
@mricci07
@mricci07 8 ай бұрын
You can keep your anonimality and still validate your World Record. This is the same thing as if an olympic athlete is suspected of using illegal substances to gain an advantage, this athlete must validate their innocence before competing. I would rather trust veterans of this game than anyone else on doing decisions about this game. What are the chances that, on the run of your life, your controller decides to randomly "have a malfunction" and change direction in 1 frame, and somehow this malfunction only happens in this run, along the fact that many other known people of the community that grinded this record and never got any similar result.
@sorrowandsufferin924
@sorrowandsufferin924 8 ай бұрын
Nobody asked for identity. Also, we're talking about a guy who regularily uploaded to the records 10 years ago. He's certainly no stranger to the internet. Wirtual, the leaderboards, and the community have been asking for an explanation as to how this run was achieved, and proof that it's legitimate.
@isolatedImp
@isolatedImp 7 ай бұрын
@@sorrowandsufferin924 random guys asking to "explain inputs" is much more awful and unacceptable than asking for identity. who tf is wirtual or those (tm-exchange?) mods to debate with?? this continuous witch hunt is pure madness.
@pulyps20sf
@pulyps20sf 6 ай бұрын
@@sorrowandsufferin924they don’t need proof that it’s legit. They need to prove that it’s fake. The fact that the run got removed is insane
@DynamicProGamer
@DynamicProGamer 10 ай бұрын
I don’t really get the point about his set up at the end. It’s literally slower than the normal set up so why would that be evidence he’s cheating?
@ra1nmaker001
@ra1nmaker001 10 ай бұрын
def a bit sus that he didn't provide proof of this inputs, but there's no proof of cheating either, presumption of innocence prevails
@TurkDinski
@TurkDinski 9 ай бұрын
Specifically talking about the weird inputs, I had my steer left and steer right binded to my bumpers for a time. I would switch off of joystick for slalom turns. I think if you were using both at the same time you could get that input
@TurkDinski
@TurkDinski 9 ай бұрын
The input would be left bumper (steer left) into the turn, with your finger hovering the joystick, and then once the wall bang happens you stop holding left bumper and start with small joystick wiggle simultaneously. I’m almost certain I could get my controller to do that input. Edit: input, not shortcut
@christopherjohnson3464
@christopherjohnson3464 9 ай бұрын
Yeah that’s what I thought- it’s a mix between pad and kb that causes it
@mp7311
@mp7311 9 ай бұрын
@@christopherjohnson3464 You physically cannot press one key to the next on keyboard in .01 seconds. You don't realize how immensely fast that is. The only thing that can input that fast is a computer.
@christopherjohnson3464
@christopherjohnson3464 9 ай бұрын
@@mp7311 If you were steering on the joystick already and then pressed a button on kb, the inputs from pad would be cancelled out
@MIAssasin
@MIAssasin 7 ай бұрын
​​@@mp7311A month late to the discussion but yeah you can. Tekken, the fighting game, has a move that only comes out when you do a sequence with a frame perfect three button press at the end (down, forward, right punch.) That's three buttons pressed together within 0.016 seconds. The optimal follow-up that Kazuya pros consistently do for one move is to do a perfect electric. Doing a perfect electric is to do the full sequence (forward, down, down-forward+right punch) with one frame intervals (0.016) between each button press. So people can not only do two different button presses in 0.01 seconds, but differentiate between 0.01 seconds (pressed "together") and 0.02 seconss (pressed one frame after another).
@donbunson5031
@donbunson5031 9 ай бұрын
I am not convinced that any cheating has taken place. If your tool to spot cheats missed this and you cannot give any explanation of how he cheated then it doesn't seem fair.
@RayIock
@RayIock 9 ай бұрын
That steering input looks like if you're driving on a controller and your finger slipped off of the knob and wiggled the other way a little I think this is a little bit of a witch hunt, a guy got lucky, nothing looks wrong about that run, and you're turning Trackmania into a bunch of Elitists where nobody else is allowed to shine
@decklanappelbee7397
@decklanappelbee7397 9 ай бұрын
I play on controller and I don't think that his joystick would go from full steering lock to 20-30% in the opposite direction in 0.01 seconds a more reasonable explanation would be switching from dpad steering to joystick but even then the timing is really questionable
@rainmanthegoat
@rainmanthegoat 8 ай бұрын
Just gonna throw this in there..... I'm pretty sure you drove multiple insane runs w/ your custom input controller so lets take down those off the LB. Then every other WR on the LB that is anon because you can't believe it's true. If it passes the competitive patch and nadeo doesn't ban the person. Leave it up and have some crazy person hunt the skip.
@empresslithia
@empresslithia 3 ай бұрын
Modern analogue keyboards can instantly shift inputs I think, so that first point with the weird wall bang could just be a result of having a new keyboard.
@empresslithia
@empresslithia 3 ай бұрын
Releasing a key instantly shifts input, then instantly sending input that you have ready-pressed. I think you need to set it up in software though.
@Damian-cilr2
@Damian-cilr2 13 күн бұрын
Its possible,hard to say,if he wanted fame for a world record though,i don't think he'd silently post it without any explanation,i'm not saying whether or not the person is cheating but it is weird how that guy just randomly posted it and refused to elaborate further
@flag_sh
@flag_sh 12 күн бұрын
they are using a controller
@alphahawk325
@alphahawk325 10 ай бұрын
Thank god i thought it was racehans
@AllarionTalfwyn
@AllarionTalfwyn 10 ай бұрын
me too. IO like racehans
@lordofmagnusfolia8024
@lordofmagnusfolia8024 10 ай бұрын
It was most certainly Riolu's 34th secondary account he had made just to spy on Wirtual, like the obsessed stalker he is, staying all day in his room, thinking only about Wirtual 24/7. Right?
@jorisbuis4688
@jorisbuis4688 10 ай бұрын
If you see the control inputs, you see that there are some more anomaly’s so it could be his controller is bugged
@CookieIsntAvailable
@CookieIsntAvailable 9 ай бұрын
"he beat us good players so we got him taken off the leaderboard and he has not come back" yeah I also would not entertain a community that acts like that.
@n3uro84
@n3uro84 10 ай бұрын
Just going to preface that I don't know who Jules is, nor have I played TMNF in about 5 years since I can't get it to run on my rig. Of course, cheating is not to be taken lightly when it comes to competitive gaming or speedrunning, I wholeheartedly agree. However, the title is kind of slanderous. Cheating wasn't proven, only suspected. It was deleted because the legitimacy was "questioned", but not substantiated with proof. Sure, the inputs looks shady, but there could be an explanation to it, especially if it happens once in the entire run. I feel the word "suspected" should be added in the title. Just my opinion though.
@mentyron3635
@mentyron3635 10 ай бұрын
Thing is, this is a year old stream as written in the description. Whether this means that new stuff came about it and Jules really cheated with proof, I don't know, and I honestly just watch Wirtual to fall asleep so I personally don't care, but I have to agree that the title seems very extreme.
@Slimmeyy
@Slimmeyy 10 ай бұрын
To be fair, Jules had an entire year to respond to any messages. He did not.
@bappochann
@bappochann 10 ай бұрын
Other games catch cheaters for even smaller cues, all for splicing. Be it everything looks normal but 1 input, or timer, or object is slightly off it’s invalidated. That weird input can only be explained by using a keyboard for a single split second to tap, and in tmnf keyboard is only 100% steering. So either that’s all controller/wheel (which makes that input impossible to achieve), or it was used with an edited steering value on keyboard for that 1 specific tap. Which is an odd place to remove your hand from controller, to tap a key, and then go back to controller. And even if that is what he did the edited keyboard value makes this run illegitimate
@Gwp_Gamin
@Gwp_Gamin 10 ай бұрын
@@Slimmeyy to be fair Jules shouldn't really have to do that, as mods and other players should prove beyond a questionable doubt that the run was cheated, not the other way around.
@Corinph
@Corinph 10 ай бұрын
@@Gwp_Gamin He did have to do that as an uncertainty is clearly shown in the video. That input is impossible to achieve on controller and wheel within such a timeframe, and the other inputs are all partial steering which you cannot do on keyboard.
@GHFMFTS
@GHFMFTS 9 ай бұрын
The Saltiest Gamer Exposes a Better Player
@nickroitman6743
@nickroitman6743 8 ай бұрын
I avoided watching this video because i'm starting to dislike the cheating scandals on this channel. But after I decide to watch it, I dislike it. I don't think there's enough proof the guy cheated and it's not a hardware issue (if you are really sure it is not, should have said it). And above everything, why uploading this now after a whole year if there's nothing new? After Riolu, TM community changed too much.
@CrouchingGrandpa
@CrouchingGrandpa 9 ай бұрын
Why would u cheat on this game when there's people who will study a frame for 3 hours out of pure curiosity. It will always end badly.
@MightyMango94
@MightyMango94 10 ай бұрын
I think it would help if you explained how he cheated cause saying the input is weird for this 0.01s window is hard to understand how they would change things for the course of the entire run if thats all still played manually. Are you saying its a TAS?
@aaronburr956
@aaronburr956 4 ай бұрын
They dont know what caused it, which is the problem. Its a weird input theyve never seen before at a suspicious point in the run, and jules didnt even try to explain it. Someone said they could be using a program that drove the wallbang portion for them, which would explain the weird input. I dont know if its possible, but thats why jules needs to give an explanation
@Cherrypizzasquad
@Cherrypizzasquad 15 күн бұрын
They prob think it’s slow motion, like riolu
@CaliFamilyMan
@CaliFamilyMan 10 ай бұрын
Well, now I have to get out of retirement and get this wild wr, just to get in Wirtuals videos
@MrTurbo_
@MrTurbo_ 10 ай бұрын
"I really hope perhaps your wife is pregnant" -Wirtual
@Kyrelel
@Kyrelel 10 ай бұрын
Removing the punctuation to change the context is a bit naughty ;p
@PlayrTBH
@PlayrTBH Ай бұрын
Interesting thing, you technically can achieve this same input behavior if you bind both sticks of a controller to steering and then holding one to the perfect angle, keep it there, then use the second stick to drive. This could be done with like a piece of paper or smth to hold the stick at just the right angle. IDK if this works in older track mania however I was able to get basically the exact same input on Trackmania 2020. TL;DR The game only registers a stick input when the input changes, if you bind both to steer and hold one at a specific angle, then move it slightly, you can teleport from one side to the other instantly. (clarification, I'm not saying the run wasn't cheated. I am just saying the actual movement is technically/theoretically possible to do without cheating)
@meraldlag4336
@meraldlag4336 Ай бұрын
Sure, but he also holds the exact steering value for a few frames when it switches - even if he is able to instantly switch steering, how could he hold it for a few frames exactly still
@PlayrTBH
@PlayrTBH Ай бұрын
@meraldlag4336 like I said before, something to physically stop the stick from moving further. Outside of that, i don't find it particularly hard to hold a controller thumb stick at one angle for a few moments. Again, not saying the run wasn't cheated, I am just pointing out that the movement alone is possible without cheating.
@meraldlag4336
@meraldlag4336 Ай бұрын
@@PlayrTBH if theres something to stop it moving further, then how did he move the controller in the first place to achieve that spike? Maybe it's possible but I'm not sure if I would consider that cheating, using two input devices simultneously
@PlayrTBH
@PlayrTBH 28 күн бұрын
@@meraldlag4336 It wouldn't be two input devices, its just one controller with both sticks mapped to steering.
@Slandi
@Slandi 9 ай бұрын
Lets just put everyone that isnt recording themselves 24/7 in prison aswell
@CreeperBeatzMC
@CreeperBeatzMC 10 ай бұрын
The video is really high quality and I agree with the final verdict of removjng it from the leaderboards, but i feel cheated with this title. 1. You didn't expose him. It was a community effort. 2.We dont know if he actually cheated. His case is a bit like having a trial and losing by default, because you didn't go to it. But that doesn't mean you actually broke the law, it just means that you lost the case.
@A-ii5dp
@A-ii5dp 10 ай бұрын
2.We dont know if he actually cheated. His case is a bit like having a trial and losing by default, because you didn't go to it. But that doesn't mean you actually broke the law, it just means that you lost the case. Its more like losing because all the evidence points to you cheating, and you failed to offer any defence. Not quite the same as you're suggesting which is a loss by default in a trial which could go either way.
@xarin42
@xarin42 10 ай бұрын
Yeah, I can see removing it from the leaderboards. That's the way they are supposed to work. You don't show records unless you are sure and whatnot. But saying it is definitely cheated? One weird input in an unhelpful place could be explained by other things.
@BadChess56
@BadChess56 10 ай бұрын
I do feel annoyed that the title says HE exposes the cheater, because it wasnt just him (as you said) but i think the evidence is clear. Hes definitely a cheater.
@Ariamaki
@Ariamaki 10 ай бұрын
I don't know what part of "Literally biologically physically impossible inputs" sounds like "we don't know" to you, but please get off the Internet.
@A-ii5dp
@A-ii5dp 10 ай бұрын
@@xarin42 The problem is there literally isn't any 'other thing' which can explain it though. And its not just a 'wierd' input, its an impossible input. I feel like this is a problem of people not really knowing what is what and thinking that if you are ignorant, so is everyone else.
@failtasticful
@failtasticful 10 ай бұрын
Just to weigh in my opinion here as someone definitely not knowledgeable in the minutiae of TMNF inputs and records etc - I don't think the majority of resistance to this video is based on the legitimacy specifically of this run, but the manner and spirit in which it seems Wirtual and the others dealt with it. I believe if there is a competitive patch that is meant to 'validate' runs, no run that passes that patch should ever be removed manually without some change to the competitive patch following immediately after. If Wirtual and the admins believe beyond a reasonable doubt that this run was cheated, no record posting should be allowed *full stop* until the competitive patch - the tool specifically created to ensure validation of runs - is reviewed and modified. If no flaw or weakness is found in the patch, then there are much bigger problems to worry about than the C02 record. Even if no positive change can be made to the patch, if they would require this player to provide 'evidence' to prove the legitimacy of the run, that evidence should be standardised and required of all players - no matter their tenure in the scene. Without that crucial step in the investigation, the moderation of the leaderboards is no better than it was prior the introduction of the competitive patch - a bunch of old school players, albeit incredibly skilled and knowledgable ones, deciding for themselves which records they like and which they don't. I wouldn't think that any of them, let alone Wirtual, would use that privilege to knowingly reject a completely legitimate run, but I believe that it would be just as negative an outcome as unknowingly allowing a cheated record on the leaderboard. To draw a parallel to athletics for example, imagine a brand new athlete runs a WR 100m time that noone thought possible - passing all drugs tests along the way. Would it be fair to expect them to provide additional evidence, eg their food and drink intake for the last month, without asking the same of all other athletes until the drug tests can be reviewed and updated if necessary? Whilst it's definitely an exaggeration of the situation, the concept of innocence until proven guilty is one fundamental to judicial systems around the world. Cases in TMNF records are of course more of a science than subjective and contextual legal cases, but I believe everyone would feel much more comfortable if at least the spirit is captured - of treating everyone exactly the same until they are proven to have cheated beyond a reasonable doubt.
@jpa3974
@jpa3974 9 ай бұрын
Good, smart comment.
@randomusermaximuss
@randomusermaximuss 9 ай бұрын
The truth is the inputs appear to be inhuman; hes guilty. They gave a chance to prove otherwise. The anticheat is a bit lenient intentionally to not catch random people, but the inputs are obvious. Dude cheated.
@randomusermaximuss
@randomusermaximuss 9 ай бұрын
@@brunch. If I tell you I can make a man fly with my mind and then show a sketchy video of a man flying are you going to take it at face value? No, I did something no one has seen before outside of instances where there was fraud. You'd ask for more evidence. Ask how I achieved it. Request that I explain what was involved in my ability to make someone fly. Here we have someone who used inputs that have never been seen outside of instances of fraud. Is it possible the inputs are legit? Maybe, but nobody has seen it. If the runner could show how those inputs may've occurred then it'd go up as a record. They asked for an explanation, details, anything, but got radio silence. In the past when people have come out with new input devices or legitimate skill they have shown it. Its why hand cams and audio with runs are required by other speed running groups. Here they have a set of seemingly fraudulent inputs and the runner went silent.
@randomusermaximuss
@randomusermaximuss 9 ай бұрын
@@brunch. No, inputs similar to those have been seen before as was noted in the video. They come up when people play the game at slow speed and pass it off as normal. That's why the mods pulled the run; it looks exactly like cheating.
@julz6077
@julz6077 10 ай бұрын
bruh when he showed racehans my heart kinda dropped notgonna lie
@arieltm4925
@arieltm4925 10 ай бұрын
He wouldn't make a video on his second Channel if it was hans
@RADGoodstatsforthecost
@RADGoodstatsforthecost 10 ай бұрын
If the first left hold in the wallbang was made on a controller then if somebody taps right at the keyboard, the steering is cancelled and you are no longer steering thus it is not possible to flick into the right if the steering was started on a controller as we can see in the input display
@fpl_cricket
@fpl_cricket 10 ай бұрын
I really appreciate this thoughtful upload. In the last year I have married my wife, had children with her, and seen those same children graduate college. I was worried that my experiences were going unnoticed by my favorite TrackMania streamer. Thank you for the visibility, Wirtual.
@VilleLiski
@VilleLiski 10 ай бұрын
One irregular input can be just bugging controller. Especially if it's not hall effect controller.
@TheCharkan
@TheCharkan 9 ай бұрын
"2 years ago" 0:07 Maths doesnt math... Desc: "Yes, this was streamed a year ago..." MATHS DOESNT MATH !!!!
@hashtagornah
@hashtagornah 10 ай бұрын
You make me care about things I don't care about.
@Goat_gamering
@Goat_gamering 10 ай бұрын
Wait a second... Wirtual is Trackmania advertisement that works?
@lonesome3958
@lonesome3958 10 ай бұрын
Same I way too invested in this discussion that Im not even affected by
@lampoilropebombs0640
@lampoilropebombs0640 10 ай бұрын
He is literally the reason why I downloaded trackmania. No kidding.
@lonesome3958
@lonesome3958 10 ай бұрын
@@lampoilropebombs0640 same
@chezeus1672
@chezeus1672 9 ай бұрын
the 10 year or-so break actually counts in his favor, imo. childhood account turned into smurf account, that's plausible.
@baertorv
@baertorv 9 ай бұрын
It seems so whack that the moderators can just remove any replay and have the burden of proof of the inputs of a multiple year old record be on the player. Seems like they should rework their competitive patch instead of hunting players down like that.
@wilfreddv
@wilfreddv 4 ай бұрын
If they can't explain it how can they add a metric to the patch?
@Taobyby
@Taobyby 10 ай бұрын
Ever thought about analog keyboards where you can steer like a joystick....sounds familiar? :)
@Drezaem55
@Drezaem55 10 ай бұрын
Wirtual has and uses an analog keyboard and he's even been accused of cheating because of it. That combined with Wirtual being a guy that doesn't take cheating accusations lightly makes me assume Wirtual will have thought of it.
@Taobyby
@Taobyby 10 ай бұрын
​@@Drezaem55Buddy, why do you think I wrote "sounds familiar?" with a smilie at the end? I know that. But thanks for explaining my joke.... ;)
@Revalusion
@Revalusion 10 ай бұрын
these situations are exactly what the riolu story creates. Maybe it was a hardware fault that no one knows how it happened, including the submitter. Maybe it was TAS. you might not know but one thing is for sure. were it not for riolu no one would feel compelled to, not only ask, but to press.
@martinkarsai8604
@martinkarsai8604 10 ай бұрын
wirtual cyberbullying everyone who is not active in the community is getting kinda cringe
@RHIOfficial23
@RHIOfficial23 9 ай бұрын
This guy isn't active therefore cheater 🤪
@masonfoster7954
@masonfoster7954 9 ай бұрын
it’s not even like that to me it just seems weird and kind of suspect to not play for 10 years and then come back just to beat one of the most dedicated track mania players using a shortcut that nobody has ever done before not to mention the bizarre inputs on the wall bang part. not responding to anyone also is a big red flag imo
@JoshuaZitzelsberger-sk3ek
@JoshuaZitzelsberger-sk3ek 7 ай бұрын
​@@masonfoster7954 real, you can't build up that amount of skill in just a few months
@Intuition-Orth
@Intuition-Orth 10 ай бұрын
This kind of instantaneous change in inputs reminds me of my own "Snapback" issue. Where you let of the Analog Stick and when it Snaps back into it's Neutral position, it will overextend for a few frames, showcasing exactly this behavior. ( I still suffer from it to this day if i set my Deadzone too low ) Honestly, i'm getting more & more disappointed in the TM Community. Not only did Jules follow all the rules, including the Competetiv patch. Yet he got his record revoked based on suspicion alone. I'm aware that after the whole cheating incident, people now look more closely. However it should still be "innocent until proven guility". Not the other way around. It really hurts to see knowing the TM Community used to be a much more friendlier place for newcomers/old-school competitors. Granted, I can't really judge them based on your videos alone. However, that's how I feel.
@Skyliner_369
@Skyliner_369 9 ай бұрын
The only possible explanation i have of the weird stick movement is something called snapback, where you literally let go of the stick and the spring sprongs, causing the stick to go the other direction for a significant enough amount of time. Significant enough for it to be a problem in smash bros
@tecci5502
@tecci5502 10 ай бұрын
I think they were using either a macro or a save state to get to that point, because after the abnormal inputs he doesn't do anything for like .25 of a second (approximately) and then goes back to holding slightly right, which is about the reaction time of an average person, so I think he either used a macro or a save state and then had to react to the preformulated inputs / save state loading, which is why you see that slight pause on the inputs.
@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah
@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah 10 ай бұрын
Oh. So there is a possible way to do the cheat. That is useful info. Would be nice if Wirtual had educated us on at least one possible way to do the cheat. Thank you for helping me better understand.
@NemuruYama
@NemuruYama 10 ай бұрын
@@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah ?? There are a boatload of ways you can do that, but for very precise things like that you can do spoof mouse/joystick movements. Professional Valorant cheats work by having a "fake mouse" that you connect your real mouse into, so it can pretend to be your mouse instead.
@nicoferrero136
@nicoferrero136 10 ай бұрын
At best, the run would have been tool-assisted, which would still make it an illegitimate run, but that in combination with a random WR with no PR progression that is the only run to utilize a shortcut with racing lines nobody else uses makes this run less believable. It's like using a chess bot, it looks legitimate to the untrained eye, but any experienced player can tell that something is off.
@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah
@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah 10 ай бұрын
@@NemuruYama Interesting. Thanks.
@void_snw
@void_snw 10 ай бұрын
Yeah I'm thinking savestate right after the wallbang might be it. Anything else wouldn't make sense. Still odd though. One day I want a guy to come outta nowhere like this and be legit. Just like one record kinda thing.
@Moti27x
@Moti27x 10 ай бұрын
Seems a bit salty to me tbh. They got beat by someone that isn’t in their “clique” of known players so just assumed he cheated because he did something different to them. He passed the patch so either find out how he cheated or leave his record, not really fair just to out someone as a cheater with 0 proof
@ecafireball2766
@ecafireball2766 9 ай бұрын
They had enough proof, those inputs aren’t humanly possible, and as such, are highly unusual. Give an explanation or the best option is to remove it.
@Moti27x
@Moti27x 9 ай бұрын
@@ecafireball2766 can’t accuse someone of cheating without knowing how they did it
@andrewperry5662
@andrewperry5662 9 ай бұрын
They had no proof just things that they couldn’t explain
@DrDrao
@DrDrao 9 ай бұрын
@@ecafireball2766" The inputs aren't humanly possible" When referring to a few frames long input completely inconsequential to the record.
@6karnex9
@6karnex9 9 ай бұрын
​it's not about it being inconsequential, it's just straight up impossible to go from steering full left to about 50% right in one millisecond AND hold this exact steering value without a slight deviation for some time on a controller, unless it was modded in some way. Both modding a controller or making a program to feed the game these steering values would invalidate the run hence the cheating accusation. When even a slight and unimportant part of the run is cheated you HAVE to at least ask yourself a question "if this one part is faked, what would stop a person from faking other parts or even the whole run?"
@__________________________---_
@__________________________---_ 10 ай бұрын
not playing for 10 years could easily be him playing on an alt account
@baertorv
@baertorv 9 ай бұрын
Or just not uploading inputs to TMX. Hell I've never uploaded a single replay (or ever saved one) in the decade I played TMNF, since I just played online for ladder points or grinded to beat my own PBs. It's getting giga cringe that everyone playing well who's not engaging in the community is deemed a cheater.
@tkiptdr1831
@tkiptdr1831 9 ай бұрын
Imagine that Wirtual must already be banned 1,000 times from Trackmania, but as the biggest content creator, nothing is done. On the other hand, he takes the liberty of suspecting others of cheating.
@KaavjeSahe
@KaavjeSahe 9 ай бұрын
Wirtual uses Macros in his run, and he accepted that also, shouldn't his runs be deleted as well
@Shinymold
@Shinymold 10 ай бұрын
Keep in mind the input happened within the timeframe of 0.01sec. For reference it takes 0.15sec for the average human to blink. Normal human reaction time is 0.3 to 0.2sec, with some of the fastest recorded reaction times being around the 0.15 to 0.1sec range. This input in question is 10x faster than that. Without correspondence from the player, the tmx mods can't prove this input can be re-created. Jules wouldn't need to drive another WR, just show that kind of (buggy?) input is a normal or doable thing. Until they can be 100% sure I don't blame them for being overly cautious and holding the record in limbo off the leaderboards until they can be certain. If it turns out to be legit, then it'll be re-instated with no harm done in the end. If it is cheated then that likely means the competitive patch for uploading records will need to be updated to catch this kind of thing in the future.
@Bourikii2992
@Bourikii2992 10 ай бұрын
Frame perfect inputs at 60 fps are 0.016, this is literally done every single day by gamers.
@jsettle939
@jsettle939 10 ай бұрын
@@konsth191counter steering is a reaction, unless you’re suggesting he randomly is steering the opposite direction for no reason?
@Shinymold
@Shinymold 10 ай бұрын
@@konsth191 If we're playing devil's advocate to say there was no cheating, a lot actually. It would mean the input is either (1) a legitimate countersteer done at insane speeds or (2) joystick drift. In either case the player should be able to replicate the action/glitch in the inputs with minimal effort. The malicious alternative of course being something along the lines of an undetected slow-mo cheat, allowing a shift in inputs from 100% left to ~40% right in such a short timeframe.
@jambott5520
@jambott5520 10 ай бұрын
People can absolutely move that quickly, although not consistently. Dashback in melee (without a mod that changes it) is a 1 frame input, moving the joystick pretty much from one side to the other within that time window. This could also very easily be a hardware error. The dude could have released the joystick, and for whatever reason during that time something went wrong, an anologue signal did a fucky wucky and some data was lost, or one of any other possible hardware issues. There is just too many reasons for as to why this happened. If it was more instances, the argument would be stronger. But it's just one.
@jambott5520
@jambott5520 10 ай бұрын
​@@Bourikii2992not quite. Moving a joystick that much in 1 frame is really, really hard. Much harder than a frame perfect input. But still feasible for a human to do.
@RAP4EVERMRC96
@RAP4EVERMRC96 10 ай бұрын
So actionkeys are not allowed? I don’t get it
@CalculatedRiskAK
@CalculatedRiskAK 8 ай бұрын
Action keys don't exist in TMNF. I'm not sure how they performed their input, but going from full steer to 25% or so in the opposite direction in .01 seconds, for .04 seconds after that, is suspicious. I'm undecided on which camp I side with, however. If it's just one or two instances that seem a little bit suspicious then it's hard to say "cheated".
@RAP4EVERMRC96
@RAP4EVERMRC96 8 ай бұрын
@@CalculatedRiskAK I thought it was legal in TMNF to use third party controller adjustment tools to limit steering etc. Wirtual has mentioned that several times already. Especially when talking about rally and snow car, he said more than once that it is the way how the respective communities drive. So "action keys" are only illegal in the stadium environment?
@aaronburr956
@aaronburr956 4 ай бұрын
​@@CalculatedRiskAK Dont forget the radio silence from jules. The tackmania community didnt want to delete the record, but they didnt really have a choice.
@jazzcardashcam
@jazzcardashcam 6 ай бұрын
Someone beats a WR and the community bullies him back into retirement.
@thaostrich
@thaostrich 9 ай бұрын
Not defending him, but I'll play devil's advocate. I like playing games with an Xbox 360 controller on my PC. Since mine is old, the stick potentiometers are worn out and messed up. Occasionally it registers as dead-zoned, or even opposite direction for a split second while moving in games, so there's a slim possibility. My issue certainly makes playing TM with this controller a pain. In RPG games, my characters occasionally stop moving, or move the opposite way for a frame or two.
@nakit_muusilla
@nakit_muusilla 10 ай бұрын
racehans is truly the goat of trackmania
@vogelfurtz
@vogelfurtz 9 ай бұрын
No cheater was exposed here. Just allegations and your feeling that something isnt right. I liked it more when you had solid evidence. Youre right its sus, but no indication to outriught cheating. He could still use a key with a specific steering angle to get a nice wallbang (which is more grey area than actual cheats).
@ScruffyMopplidge
@ScruffyMopplidge 9 ай бұрын
YOU are accusing HIM YOU have the burden of proof. YOU provide the proof. If him being silent is enough to make your claim wobble, then silence is his RIGHT, and YOU need to better reinforce your claim.
@blackshirtsquad7883
@blackshirtsquad7883 4 ай бұрын
As someone who used to cheat, I also think he was cheating. Not proud of it now, but I used to write my own custom scripts for various games and I hit #1 on a lot of hiscores over the years. I had two ways, I would "hack" just by iterating over the screen searching for clumps of pixels to indicate something had happened in game, or in javascript browser games I would intercept the javascript before it reached the browser, edit values in my favor, and then pass the code through to the browser. Most games have server side checks to prevent this but there are still a lot of things you can change client side. A lot of things made sense to me with this guy. First off, I would only hack games I liked, and I would always have two different accounts, one of which was clean. My guess is this guy has been playing for the whole time but mostly plays on his "clean" account. The funny inputs are also something I would try to work around but sometimes get wrong. For example, games might check your mouse movement for things that look unnatural. So what I did is I read in my own human mouse movements, looked at how the input looked, for example the delay between events, and then I would "smooth out" my bots mouse movement by sending a bunch of similar events at the same interval. Just speculating here, but a bug that happened to me would've exactly matched his funny input. For example... say my starting mouse location was x:0, y:0 and I needed to move to x:100, y:100 in 200ms. I'd run an equation that would give me a smooth sequence of mouse movements for each time interval, with a lot of randomness and other tricks (too much to say here). One bug though is if say I needed to get to the same x:100, y:100 in 1ms, just one timestamp? Well, that's what my program would do, and it wouldn't look very human. My guess is that's what happened to this guy - he was at 100% left and his program said "i need to instantly be at 19% right" or something like that, and so his code that would make the inputs look human essentially did nothing. Alternatively, another thing that might've happened, and this is probably how I would hack this game... let's say I'm pretty good at the game but not a pro. I would run the map up to the shortcut on my own, recording all of my game inputs. I'd store those inputs in a txt file where I where I can easily edit the values. Then I'd play those inputs back into the game but tweak specific values to try to get my desired outcome. Most important here, I would tweak it until I had a consistent landing bug (or not bugged? i don't actually play this game. a good landing is my point). Then, assuming the game is fully deterministic, which I think it is? I could get the landing 100% of the time and just try to play from that point on. Probably I would mess up and go wide like he did lol, but if I didn't hit the bumps, then again I could always just replay the run back to that point, knowing that if I didn't hit the bumps once then I'd never hit the bumps. His funny input might show up because he edited his human inputs in a way that looked really funny. Probably he was just kind of trying random inputs, and that quick 100L to 20R edit for some reason happened to work, so he kept it. The more I'm thinking about this by the way... Man, if I had a friend who was good at trackmania I think I could beat this pretty easily lol. Anyways, finally, he didn't respond to the accusations. Again I actually don't play trackmania but I imagine this world record is quite the prestigious thing? Almost any response from the guy could have validated his record. But he didn't respond. I also never responded or appealed when I would sometimes get banned. Actually, I even told a lot of people in game that I was hacking. I think the nerd in me loved the technical challenge of hacking games, but I also at some level wanted to get caught, because deep down I guess I knew what I was doing wasn't good and I was hoping the developers would catch me and set justice to the world.
@joeyb6268
@joeyb6268 8 ай бұрын
In summary: "His run didn't look like mine, so he must be cheating."
@arosbastion7052
@arosbastion7052 Ай бұрын
Nah, is record should be reinstated. Innocent until proven guilty.
@ieetpeople4003
@ieetpeople4003 6 ай бұрын
"You found a slightly better way of doing this than us the 'pros'. Therefore you cheated."
@DiffYT
@DiffYT 6 ай бұрын
Didn't it recently get proven that this was a genuine cheater and his runs were stripped because of it???
@business3867
@business3867 6 ай бұрын
@@DiffYT Why do you keep commenting this was recently proven and never provide any evidence of where it was proven?
@emperorvader283
@emperorvader283 3 ай бұрын
The burden off proof to prove a cheater falls on you, not Jules. The game says the run is valid, and you admit that over and over again. It’s just a case of new comers challenging veterans, and veterans resulting to whining to keep their status.
@meraldlag4336
@meraldlag4336 3 ай бұрын
The game saying the run is valid is not enough. Check out skycrafter.
@philb2972
@philb2972 10 ай бұрын
Could it be that he just spliced together three (or more) of his attempts and that's why he had to take this weird approach to the grass-dirt transition to make the inputs of the final part line up?
@dave220
@dave220 10 ай бұрын
I was thinking maybe he just had a savestate after the wallbang (because its so annoying to hunt) and then straight after he switches to driving the rest of the run.
@Piman1607
@Piman1607 10 ай бұрын
It feels unfair to proclaim the run as cheated without any real concrete proof. I feel like calling it unvalidated is fair but i dont thing its right to say cheated without sufficent evidence.
@delphzouzou4520
@delphzouzou4520 10 ай бұрын
People and Trackmania asked for proof it wasn't cheated and they had no answer. It should be easy to show other runs you made while training, things like that.
@Piman1607
@Piman1607 10 ай бұрын
@@delphzouzou4520 i dont disagree that its suspicious. However there's not enough proof to say they cheated. Just because they didn't prove their legitimacy doesn't mean they are cheating. I think labeling the person a cheater is unfair, even if they are highly suspicious. I dont even disagree with removing the time, they had ample time to help the investigation.
@delphzouzou4520
@delphzouzou4520 10 ай бұрын
@@Piman1607 Yeah, in front of a jury it's not enough to convict, but according to the elements we have in our possession, you and me know what it is.
@tmaz9474
@tmaz9474 10 ай бұрын
@@Piman1607But there _is_ enough proof. As stated in the video, that series of inputs is not humanly possible if all you're using is a controller. *Not humanly possible* . That's all the proof needed. Of course, there might be other technical explanations for why this happened, but in that case it is on them to prove it. And as mentioned, Jules did not offer any explanation for how these inputs happened even a year after being questioned.
@schwingedeshaehers
@schwingedeshaehers 9 ай бұрын
​@tmaz9474is there any evidence , that jules received the questions?
@foobars3816
@foobars3816 10 ай бұрын
Justice for Pelicans Jules who schooled the arrogant noobs with techniques they did not discover in decades of playing. "He must be cheating!"
@TheNitrop
@TheNitrop 9 ай бұрын
I'd say this, while taking a different line, he also lost time compared to the standard line... I don't know, just feels interesting to cheat in a specific part of the map without gaining time, and then losing time later as well. Could he have been using macros to set up a button to a specific steering value? Is that allowed?
@dezeroc1040
@dezeroc1040 7 ай бұрын
Correct title: I'm trying to start another witch hunt.* Run the inputs, see if removing the "weird" / "fishy" input makes the run worse. Besides that, it's "innocent until proven guilty", not "guilty because mr. streamer says so, unless you prove your innocence". This doesn't seem like a genuine attempt at preserving the games integrity in any way. It's just a streamer on a power trip...
@aaronburr956
@aaronburr956 4 ай бұрын
Buddy, its not like they believe that one input got them the world record, its that they know that input isnt physically possible for a human to do. Its possible that it was just a joystick glitch, but is also just as possible that the jules had a program drive him to the wallbang the exact same way everytime and then gave him control. Its why small, one frame inconsistintent inputs are important.
@Shmared
@Shmared 9 ай бұрын
I actually forgot this was a video about finding a cheater while I was watching it because I was so invested in the story.
@zethzz3524
@zethzz3524 10 ай бұрын
Wirtual calling out someone for using steering input cheats is so ironic ngl
@SoooeinFeuerballJunge
@SoooeinFeuerballJunge 10 ай бұрын
Bet the run was blindfolded
@mavor101
@mavor101 9 ай бұрын
Bro what is wrong with the Trackmania community. See a new random WR and they go hunting for "strange things". Like.. chill out rofl. Controllers can malfunction from time to time as well, which would explain a "teleport" like this here and there.
@Kallum
@Kallum 10 ай бұрын
If you lean your joystick completely to the left and then let go, how long would it take for the stick to revert back to the center position? Is there a chance that he let go and the momentum of the joystick caused the right input to be present? Does he have a custom or even modified controller with stiffer springs causing these inputs to occur? Just thinking out loud here
@Zooz.
@Zooz. 10 ай бұрын
Clearly using Wirtual's keyboard with a cut range on a secondary analog steering key to get that wallbang steering input.
@tspander
@tspander 10 ай бұрын
Wirtual's keyboard brand actually has a setting where it takes the "bigger" input of each of the arrow keys, so if you press down 100% on the left key and 90% on the right, it's translated into an analog 100% left, but as soon as you let go of the left key it immediately jumps to the 90% right.
@supermaster2012
@supermaster2012 10 ай бұрын
Exactly, Wirtual is literally a cheater by his own standards but he's also a harasser egomaniac that thinks he's TM's messiah, so he justifies himself and his community during these witch hunts. Remember that he admitted to cheat runs with cut analog ranges, while he's harassing someone for a potential game glitch. Wirtual needs to be banned, plain and simple.
@AfonsoCL
@AfonsoCL 10 ай бұрын
@@supermaster2012Hahaha cope
@mrosskne
@mrosskne 10 ай бұрын
@@supermaster2012 cry about it lmao
@rorycannon7295
@rorycannon7295 10 ай бұрын
@@supermaster2012 dog u aint cooking
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