Wish I knew this 20 years ago - Best & Worst Frames

[@kamonreynolds]

Amazon Store link: www.amazon.com/shop/tennessees-bees How to Assemble Frames! - My Favorite Way - kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXy7doN3lNWgb5Isi=D_HyXQmJZlrFkUp5

[@robertlewis3336]

I buy all my frames unassembled. That way I can glue them right. Titebond III has never let me down

[@kamonreynolds]

Glue is stronger than nails

[@comanchefire]

Ah, but the problem is, without fasteners, the wood can break right by the glue joint, even the the glue joint itself does not break. With staples, you do get additional strength. The nails or staples do a lot more than just hold the wood together until the glue cures. I'd never trust frames with glue only

[@robertlewis3336]

@@comanchefire Yep. Glue then two staples on top and two staples on the sides for the top bar.

[@FrederickDunn]

I'll Echo That. I've never used staples or brads etc. Glued up with Titebond makes the joints as strong as the wood you're bonding :)

[@FloryJohann]

​@robertlewis3336 That is another problem. Manybstaple the top bar from the top down and then when someone pry on it , it will come appart. I pointed that out to many sellers. If you staple it from the side and glue it then when you pry on it it will not separate. I had many come apart just by prying on them with my hive tool to get them out.

[@danno1800]

Thanks very much for showing me about the frames from different companies! Much appreciated…

[@moosibou]

Mann Lake sold to investment bankers a few years ago. Prices got jacked up and quality dropped significantly.

[@anabelaramos8399]

I have my father's frames, made by him around 50 years ago. He used them for maybe 20 years and I have been using them for almost 10 years. His boxes are still alive and well, the bees prefer them. They know what good wood is.

[@Blackswan19874]

Thanks Kamon, we switched to Hillco and Premier and have been very satisfied. Mann lake frames and boxes have gone downhill. Hillco also has great customer relationships and John is not afraid to answer the phone or respond to emails , plus our favorite he’s a follower of Jesus Christ .

[@sweeteststingsapiary8853]

Miller bee supply is a great company. Boxes are great . Got my bulk order in 3 day shipped. Great people

[@michaelellison9395]

Miller Bee Supply is EXCELLENT!!! I purchased some of their “budget” grade medium boxes unassembled and they went together easier than anything I’ve ever purchased. And as mentioned, fast shipping and great people.

[@BeekeeperofTN]

HillCo is awesomeeeeeee. Love their frames and its stamped on the top of the frame of their name. So i know each time which way to face the frame so it doesnt get turned around

[@bobbinnie9872]

Hi Kamon. I appreciate these review style videos.

[@kamonreynolds]

Thanks Bob take care!

[@MarkZenner]

I just bought 40 Hillco frames with Premier double wax foundation. Let’s see how they compare to Mann Lake’s pre assembled frames. I’ve always liked Mann Lake’s waxed plastic foundation especially compared to the Amazon junk. In my short time as a beekeeper, the bees have done great with it.

[@schammond8993]

All boxes are not created equal. My words exactly. Wish someone had shared that little tid bit when I started out. Great info. Thanks

[@brandonharlow2459]

Glad you posted this video as I'm looking into getting some equipment soon. When you google online the first thing you see and is abundant is the stuff on Amazon. I come across your channel and have been watching it for information and appreciate videos like this. Thanks for the information.

[@zeb5478]

One of the issues in play is the type of bee we are using now. 20 to 50 years ago we were using Italian bees that were bred to avoid propolis production; we are adding carniolian and Caucasian genetics, both of which we used to avoid due to high propolis production. Now are frames are getting glued into the hives and subsequently being pulled apart during hive manipulation.

[@DC_PRL]

nothing wrong with Mann Lake frames if you glue and nail your self; two brad nails from top and bottom, one through to pin the joint together. other frames look nice, but at 70 to 90 cent more per frame, it adds up, IMO. I'm not commercial, just keeping 10 hives for fun here.

[@kamonreynolds]

Some companies are pretty proud of their frames!

[@DC_PRL]

@@kamonreynolds i will try those other brands, got me interested, thank you. I like Mannlake plastic foundation , better than Dadant IMO

[@kamonreynolds]

Mann lake definitely isn't garbage. I just am disappointed that they don't make them as good as they used to. Many commercial beekeepers love their rite cell foundation but are getting their new frames elsewhere. I am not too high on Dadant except for their smokers these days. They just don't do anything special anymore and don't seem to want to try.

[@DC_PRL]

@@kamonreynolds i agree about Dadant smokers... my go to. Worth extra money..got the tall boy...lasts longer

[@russellkoopman3004]

I bought a few things now from Miller Bees Supply after seeing them at NAHBE. There 6 frame nuc boxes are built and fit better than any box I've run across. Hillco is my other favorite with the best customer service.

[@kamonreynolds]

I am loving the 6 frame boxes too!

[@BrianCooper901]

That empty gap on the ML bottom frame bar is a great place for the SHB to hide. The groove in the top bar that extends to the ears I sometimes find wax moth larvae in there as well. I have since bought Hillco frames and I won't go back.

[@clintcristina206]

I bought the pierco tripple waxed plastic 1 piece frames on your advise from another video. My Demaree split bottom drew 18 medium frames in 2 weeks during the flow!

[@beefitbeekeeping]

Thank you for calling out these companies. I understand times are tough right now, but it’s just as hard on the beekeeper. I hope they make some changes.

[@kamonreynolds]

Thanks BeeFitbeekeeping, it's nice to know what you are getting before you get it.

[@dougstucki8253]

I'm in the process of converting my hives to Acorn full plastic frames. No more separation of the frames when I'm prying them up! Once they get too old, I can scrape off old comb and rewax, then put them right back into use. More pricey than wood frames, but they will likely last many, many years.

[@sweeteststingsapiary8853]

@dougstucki8253 If you call acorn up and ask for a couple case pricing you may get a better price. Deeps come 52 to a case mediums come 72 to a case.

[@benjamindejonge3624]

I don’t use wood frame at all, I know mine are most the expensive ones with layens. But thanks for sharing this update

[@steliandone4078]

I do believe that Bob Binnie has the best inventory with regard to boxes and frames. He is a carpenter too. I do my own inventory with machines that I purchased from Home Depot. Because I am a carpenter too. Kamon you’re carpenter too.

[@cdayhoff1]

Great video Kamen. I just bought 30 medium frames from Hillco.

[@WildwoodsBeekeeping]

First! Hey kamon, nice video!! I’ve used a lot of frames and foundation. Really like premier bee products foundation, I’ve had a good experience with them and plan on getting more when I need. There is a lot of other options as well. But premier is great and well as a lot of others that I haven’t tryed. Got to rewax them, have some in storage that need it. I’ve also bought frames from Mann lake, they are fine too, at least when I bought them a couple years ago, now I don’t know what the quality is cause I don’t order much wooden ware from them anymore. I have a lot of boxes in storage so I’m good on boxes and frames for this year. I actually use a frame jig to put the frames together, works better and faster than putting them together one by one. I’ve had frames break and tear, when I put them together I always put glue and then put the nails in, glue makes a big difference. Again, Thanks for the video. Just some things I have used in the past on the topic of frames. Have a great week

[@fezwhy]

I had no problem with the Mannlake frames I bought last year unassmembled. I put staples in them and they are holding up. But I will say a lot of the frames arrived broken and they have terrible customer service. Same goes for their boxes. The unassembled boxes I ordered didn't even go together because they cut the box joints wrong. Took going back and forth for almost 5 days for them to finally admit it and send me new boxes that did work. I now only build my own boxes. That is the best way to insure they are built correctly.

[@BrettSigman-sg1sh]

Nice video appreciate the honest review of these companies. How do you feel about plastic acorn frames? Feel like for longevity those could be the best solution.

[@kamonreynolds]

I have some acorn plastic frames that are over 10 years old and still chuggin along. I prefer the feel of wood. My Acorn plastic frames work great though

[@gallowaylights]

I started beekeeping, thinking like a builder. Now I think like a furniture maker... tight tolerances are my friend... nothing like equipment that is interchangeable no matter what year you made them😂

[@missionbeelieve3479]

Great video I feel the same way about ML that's why WhistlePig WoodCraft got going. I'm glad you put this out there.

[@neilsmith4891]

i use full solid one piece plastic frames (no wood ware) bee's don't have any major issues with them and they last.

[@caz4523]

I love my Anel boxes... maybe I will try the Pierco triple waxed plastic frames instead of the wooden frames..

[@NKYHoneyBees]

*I came for the conspiracy "You've been Framed" sounds like a good movie, but as you explained the frames, I too have them falling apart. I would use the hive tool to lift a frame and it pops apart due to propolis holding it. I thought this shouldn't happen, but shrugged it off. This makes sense. I switched to premier frames and don't have these issues. I guess we needed someone to call this out :) Who better then Kamon. Thanks, bud!*

[@comanchefire]

What's interesting is that Mann Lake purposely saws their top bars down to 5/8" from 3/4" to make up for the 1/8" of comb space lost when manufacturers increased the bottom bar thickness from 3/8" to 1/2" (as plastic foundation became popular, since the bottom bar supports the plastic). I think part of the issue is the glue that Mann Lake uses for their pre-assembled frames. It doesn't seem to hold up well over time. I don't glue my frames any longer, but with Mann Lake's I do put a good angle on the side staple through the end bar so it penetrates the top bar we'll and haven't had any problems with them. I've assembled thousands from Dadant and other manufacturers over the years as well

[@JaiHylRubis]

Never thought of gluing, thank you Kamon! ☘ 💖🙏💫

[@kamonreynolds]

I love the glue! makes the boxes and frames so much stronger thanks for hopping on and Happy Beekeeping!

[@FloryJohann]

I would buy assembled frames and I pull on them just with my hands and they would come apart because they did not use glue on them. I use glue and a couple of finishing nails or staples on the same frame and they are so strong I never get them apart.

[@dadu63]

Thanks for sharing this kamon and laurel!

[@framcesmoore]

Ha Kamon. Good video. the commercial boxes and the budget boxes what is the difference between them. Miller bee supply are there wood boxes any good. thanks have a great week

[@kamonreynolds]

Hi Frances! Commercial boxes will have solid knots and be very structurally sound. Budgets typically have a loose knot or two and some imperfections. I typically get commercial grade. I have been really impressed with Miller Bee Supply's woodenware

[@framcesmoore]

@@kamonreynolds Thanks Kamon

[@time2fly2124]

i wont buy mann lake foundations anymore. the last bunch i got they were poorly waxed, and the foundations were too tight in the frames to the point they bowed, and i had to trim down the plastic for them to fit. got acorns and they fit so nice, and the heavy wax gets the bees drawing them SO SO fast. i love them!

[@Jeffrey-qn9jf]

How did you get the black deep foundation to fit within the frames enough to relieve the bowing of the foundation. I have well waxed garbage. Recall material for sure. How did you remove the bowing of the foundation? Glad that you resolved the issue of bowed foundation.

[@time2fly2124]

@@Jeffrey-qn9jf I just took a box knife and trimmed a sliver off the part that goes in the slots.

[@zackmtz7966]

Oh man, what a coincidence this season I have already gone through 10 frames that have come apart from mannlake Full of honey andbrood. Errrrrrrr!!!

[@michaelfike7542]

Mannlake has really let their company go down hill on quality products. Boxes are not what they used to be for top grade materials you get budget materials for top quality pricing.

[@jmom5735]

Agree! No longer buy my boxes from Mann Lake - they just don’t line up properly and leave gaps between the boxes. Sad. I go Hillco now and also liking the Apimaye.

[@illumi-Nate]

I just got frames from mann lake what a MISTAKE that was, all the way from the product to the Shipping the whole ordeal was just crap

[@busterhyman6638]

Mann lake frames and hive boxes are terrible, what a shame they use to have pride in their products,, I think they are made in china now !!

[@illumi-Nate]

Frames fit together really sloppy & burn marks + split wood all throughout the 100 frames I purchased, not to mention the foundation falls out of the deeps & the shallow frames I had to trim 3/16 off the foundation..garbage for paying top dollar... customer service was even worse...I'll tell everyone on every site too I don't care, hate to see that happen to anyone.

[@Steele_Wings]

Betterbee frames are different also. Longer for their boxes but tight on other boxes.

[@jamesowens2781]

Had the same issue I had to glue every frame I had not used yet. I used Tight Bond glue btw love that stuff

[@OdetteJanssen-pr6xp]

When you put a nail in from the side by assemble then the bottom won't fall out. Do not nail from the bottom or the top!

[@FloryJohann]

I agree and I mentioned that to many sellers but usually nothing gets done and a year later they sell the same crap.

[@thomassantorelli787]

I've had the same problem with Mann Lake

[@nate-408]

Foundation is the same. Acorn foundation is phenomenal. There are a lot of cheap flimsy plastic foundations on the market too. I have not ordered from Hillco but I just looked at their website a couple days ago. I have a list of things I am going to order from them soon.

[@thomasbacon]

Frames....my obsession for five years now. Oh I can't wait to show the world what we've done!!! :)

[@charlesoneill466]

❤❤Let's look at the truck

[@kamonreynolds]

It sure is a bee hauling machine!

[@raterus]

To be fair, I bought Mann Lake frames, unassembled, which I glued and stapled and haven't had an issue yet. I think I'll need this warning and look elsewhere in the future. All this extra size and how it's joined DOES matter in wood!

[@lenturtle7954]

My big concern is the stapling . Glued or unglued the weak spot is the ear on the end of the top bar if i have frames break most of the time its there . I find not stapling fr the top helps by not weakening the wood (staple holes cause splitting compression under the staple crushes the wood under it )and stapling side bar to the top fr the side is stronger as you have to shear the staple to make the top bar move .

[@Scotspict]

You have great content, I like your channel a lot. You have a very good point here and I wish to ask you your opinion about how long we should expect a frame to last before some kind of inspection and refurbishment. Is/could it bee worth having an "in service data tag" on them. Many thanks for a just starting outa. Keep your wisdom flowing and long live the queen.

[@microtcpip]

Oh boy, I wish you would have made this video three weeks ago!!! I ordered a box of 100 unassembled deep frames and 100 plastic foundations from Mann Lake; when the UPS guy arrived, I was outside, and just from the look on the driver's face, I knew something was wrong. The box of frames was perfect, but the one from the foundation was completely turned open, and just by looking a bit, you could see the broken frames and dirt because that box opened in transit and was taped back together. The driver immediately said he would write a comment explaining how damaged the box was. Someone from Mann Lake was not moved by the pictures and asked me how many foundations were damaged!!! The box was made of very thin cardboard with no transit protection. So, the lady from Mann Lake promised to send me another box and requested that the box be double-boxed for protection. Do you care to guess how the replacement box arrived??? Same thing: no double box, no protection, damaged frames, dirt on them from when they came out of the box, and seven days later, she has yet to reply to my complaint. Everyone at my bee club was stunned when they saw the pictures of the damaged box. Has anyone experienced this with Mann Lake? I do not know what to do to resolve this, but I recommend to all of you to stay away from Mann Lake because I paid good money for those foundations, and I would like to get new frames that are not as damaged as I got. I'm in urgent need of assistance or advice on how to handle this situation. Does any of you know anyone in Mann Lake who could help me? It's too bad I can not post pictures to show you guys! @Kamon, maybe I can send you the pictures and make a poster to be displayed at the next bee expo, this is terrible customer service.

[@jamescarter7752]

The problem I've found with premier is the foundation is bowed in a lot of the frames. I noticed that in the example you had.

[@joelgillespie1412]

I have not found that yet. I have another 1000 pieces of foundation to install yet too.

[@sunduck1]

I am having issues with some of Premier's products. A few Boxes and frames were busted from the factory and lack of QC prior to shipping. Even reached out to them by email and they won't return my call.

[@kamonreynolds]

🤔 hmmm

[@wpankey57]

I’d like to hear about what you think of Acorn. I mostly assemble my frames and I use Titebbond 3. Good stuff.

[@donmattea]

I’m kinda upset I bought a few hundred Mann Lake frames. Just noticed today there is atleast 1/2” bee space on the ends.

[@HalfQuickFarmer]

Of course I’m a day late and a dollar short. Just got a big order of frames from mannlake yesterday. Cheers

[@Drewjober]

I should have got 50-100 more deep frames, replacing 30? and trying to figure out how to build and save them empty for the spring. My bees have crazy amounts of pollen everywhere. This spring I didn’t know what to do when every hive overwintered

[@owenroberts1168]

I have frames that are all hard plastic and they are great. I’m in Australia I would presume you would be able to get them in the US. Love the channel

[@kamonreynolds]

Thanks Owen right you are! Happy Beekeeping!

[@marktechsci]

Didn’t read every comment, but you were “cutting an inch” on the tape measure. I don’t remember glueing my frames. It was a few years ago but I’m sure I watched a few YT on it. I’m going to go through and start gluing them up. I’ve had at least 3 come apart.

[@Sergeant1001]

That’s why I rather buy the frames disassembled, I can glue and staple them myself. It may take a little longer but I know it was done right.

[@genungfamily]

If you find yourself with fake wax frames, do you need to remove the wax before applying beeswax? Or can you just put on a layer of beeswax?

[@kamonreynolds]

Applying a good coat of wax over top of it will work just fine

[@fourseasonshomestead9819]

I personally make all my own wooden ware even frames. But if I was to buy I would support the smaller business. They have more to loose so they care more.

[@kamonreynolds]

Nice making your frames is hardcore!

[@tonymarshharveytron1970]

Hello Kamon, Good video. I notice from your frams, the Hoffman spacing section of the frame is cut square on both sides, which will meen that it must be hard for you to keep the correct spacing between frames. The frames that I have used over the last 60+ years I have had bees, have one side chamfered to a point on one side. This enables the beekeeper to be able to push the pointed part against the flat back part of the next frame into any propolis maintaining correct spacing. It is important when constructing frames, to make sure that the point is on opposite sides of the frame, so it does,'t matter which way round the frame is put back into the hive. It is customary to have the poit facing forward on the righthand side when looking from the top. Apart from ease of manufacture, is there any reason why American frames are different? Kind regards, Tony Marsh, UK.

[@lenturtle7954]

If you always keep them pushed together and give them enough new comb to draw you wont run into issues with spacing or bur comb as they use their extra wax and time on the new frames

[@tonymarshharveytron1970]

@@lenturtle7954 Hello Len, Thank you for your reply. You are right that if you can keep the frames tightly pushed together, you shouldn't have a problem. However, every time you remove a frame, the propolis that is placed in the crack between the frames gets stretched like chewing gum, and when the frames are put back together again some will get between the frames. With frames that are not chamfered, this will lead to the frames being gradually spaced slightly wider. It does depend on the strain of bee that you have, as some bees are far more prone to producing lots more propolis than others, the same can be said for brace comb. The location of where the bees are kept will also determin how much and the colour of the propolis that is collected. If you do not have any problems, very well done, you are lucky. All the best for the season, kind regards, Tony.

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

If I recall the "new" Mann Lake" CEO is s surfer with a college major in poetry. What could go wrong?

[@Tinyshooterbill]

That worked in Canada for our prime minister

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

@@Tinyshooterbill No really?

[@researcherAmateur]

Did beekeeping teach you some serenity and tranquility.. how to be calm? You seem a pretty experienced beekeeper. At least old enough to stop trolling beekeepers on other channels. Sorry Kamon.. I found him here and I have enough of his childish comments.. maybe just jealousy about something. I don't know. I take it back.. just watched some of your videos. You're not a beekeeper.. just a YT-uba who doesn't know what's robbing.. or it's orientation ?

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

@@researcherAmateur Sorry I pointed out you were lying about your harvest of "barrels of honey". If you want to buy your 2nd hive, feel free to buy it from Mann Lake.

[@researcherAmateur]

@@MinnesotaBeekeeper okay. Once again sorry Kamon. There's no point in arguing with a grandpa troll trolling an even older grandpa. You took a piece from a sentence saying what we did 3 decades ago and now can only dream of it. There must be a name for it.. politicians and trolls do it

[@barkersbees]

How do you feel about the all plastic frames vs the wood ones?

[@kamonreynolds]

Hi Mr. Barker. The plastics work well. I personally don't like the feel of them, their flexibility, and eventually their brittleness which can lead to flaking. It takes many years before they get to that point but I don't want that. We also see more burr comb with them and more issues with funky comb drawn. I believe this is because of the top bar gap in the side but I am not certain. Obviously there are merits like no assembly, no wood damage from moths, more strength, and if you are dropping cells the flexibility can be nice but I really prefer wood. Thankfully we have both options since they both are good

[@barkersbees]

@@kamonreynolds thanks for the reply man!

[@kamonreynolds]

Take care and keep up the good work!

[@burleybeeyard]

I bought 500 Acorn in the spring. Bees drew them out really well. I agree with Kamon on feel and how flexible they are. I just want a wooden frame that doesn’t break.

[@Jos-scifiwriter]

Hi from central Otago southern New Zealand 👋 unfortunately importing anything to do with beekeeping from the United States is illegal here which is a shame sometimes because you guys have some great products and hiveware. Personally ive never used glue on a frame but the frames available in NZ are very high quality and ive never seen one buckle, bow, sag, unstitch or warp out. Titebond 2 which i believe is what American beekeepers use for frame gluing isnt available here in central Otago which is a shame because ive often thought it would be great to pre glue the frames before tacking them up. Interesting video 👍 thanks for putting this together and uploading it, its always interesting to see what you guys are up too

[@kamonreynolds]

Wow that is crazy! Happy beekeeping and thanks for the comment

[@houssembenabdallah6599]

05:05 Long live the Metric System!!

[@kamonreynolds]

Haha! What is that!?

[@apveening]

@@kamonreynolds Something American hillbillies avoid like the plague while the rest of the world, NASA and the American military swear by it.

[@kamonreynolds]

Oooooh that. Well we haven't needed it so far and seemed to fare pretty well. I am not knocking its efficiency but it hasn't kept me from getting what I want to get done accomplished.

[@timhall5126]

Hi Kamon where do you purchase your 5 gallon buckets , I need a Good source. Thanks. Tim

[@richardvogel1195]

I buy cheap frames that I assemble myself and cheap foundation to go with it. After I screw and glue a 2 inch drywall screw into each corner I have no problem. Now the cheap prewaxed foundation is a different story. I put those in my hives and the bees won't touch um so I pulled them out and rewaxed them

[@Jeffrey-qn9jf]

Did you ever buy plastic foundation that was too big for the frame causing foundation to bow in frame. Frame jig used? Now that is a big problem for sure. Discovered this defect three month post purchase when needed to assemble. Near 200 assembled by hand, jig useless. Same USA company used for frames & foundation. If you buy in advance assemble upon arrival is my advice.

[@zeb5478]

I cross staple my frames. The staple has no strength or holding power when stapled from the top. I still have Kelly frames from forever ago, pre pneumatic staple gun, that are still holding together. Glue first, then staple horizontally.

[@brucebennett5354]

I screw and glue my frames. Takes longer but never have any issues with them pulling apart. Also liked Kamon’s comment on the thickness of the timber.

[@zeb5478]

@@brucebennett5354 what size screw are you using on a frame? Predrill?

[@lanawuolukka4784]

I bought double waxed super foundations from Mann Lake and the bees won't touch them. I don't understand what's up with that!

[@adkfoothills1973]

Betterbee frames: Top Bar is 3/4" thick, end bars are 3/8" thick and the bottom bar is 1/2" thick. All the joints are glued and stapled, but they do have the empty gap at the end of the bottom bar joint. I found one side bar that was only 5/16" thick. Maybe their machine was out of adjustment. 🐝🐝

[@kevinogden4363]

I've noticed foundations aren't equal either, even with extra wax coating the bees don't draw some out very well

[@illumi-Nate]

I ordered some frames & deep boxes from Mann lake , when it arrived & I opened I realized someone took a crap in the box

[@RandallandSherryJones]

Have you ever used Honey Haven't Lane (from TSC) ?????

[@kamonreynolds]

I have looked at them several times but never purchased. It appears to me that the beekeeper can do all lot better than that unless they are on a sale

[@FunnyBugBeesandWoodWorks]

Acorn all plastic and they don't come apart. Not enough difference in price to matter and I don't have to put anything together.

[@TexasBeekeeper]

Same. Just bought 11 boxes and they were ready to go when they arrived.

[@jamesguy8087]

I love acorn foundations. But the plastic frames have too much flex when loaded with honey and for some reason, the bees don’t like to draw them like the wood frames even though the foundation is the same. Nice that you don’t have to assemble them, but I won’t be buying any more (I have about 300). But definitely will their foundations to put in wooden frames!

[@TexasBeekeeper]

@jamesguy8087 I agree about the flex but cost and not having to assemble, I'm willing to overlook. I also like that they are not quite as wide so not as tight in the vox especially when using an internal feeder. I have not had problems with the bees drawing out the plastic. In fact they seem to draw it faster than the wood with foundation, from what i have seen.. Now it may have to do with how fresh the foundation is. If they sit around and get dusty, the bees will be less likely to draw them out. I always apply more wax if they've been sitting in the box for a while.

[@jamesguy8087]

@@TexasBeekeeper I do use 1-2 in the box with frame feeders as you describe. That is a plus. Will all wood and propolis, you have to sometimes take out two frames which I don’t want to do.

[@FrederickDunn]

I'm a fan of Acorn foundation and frames when heavy waxed. You also get more cells-per-frame. The company has changed hands, but their quality remains very high. :)

[@danbeeson9564]

I was disappointed in my frames from Dadant recently. The top bars are all a bit over 1/8” shorter than my older frames. In my old hive boxes they can fall off the frame rests if the box shifts sideways!

[@kamonreynolds]

Yikes!

[@williamgartner5167]

Our frames are cut and assembled by by an Amish shop in PA. Glued and Stapled. I was having the same issues with Dadant and Mann Lake you are having. Neither of those two are reliable and don't stand behind their product. The Amish frames are 7/8" top bar width, bottoms are full 1/2", side bars are full 1/2".

[@jackderrick5493]

Wow, are you made at Mann Lake. Not sure i would trash a company that supports the Expo

[@kamonreynolds]

The Expo is all about the beekeepers. I love the people with the companies but they are secondary to the beekeeper. Education is a critical part of moving things forward. Product education is part of that. And I don't speak from inexperience, but speak as a former fan of Mann Lake that used to buy nearly everything from them. I have many friends that work there, but the beekeepers deserve to be informed. They are the largest company in the nation so they have the capability of providing quality woodware like they used to. I make it a point to run my KZbin, Expo, and bee business like I am talking beekeeper to beekeeper. That doesn't always make everyone happy, but I am a simple beekeeper in a small town in TN.

[@justinthacker3144]

​Giving constructive critisism isn't trashing talking. In the long run it will be good for them. It gives them the opportunity to improve instead of thinking customers will buy inferior product.

[@brianw.520]

Any opinion on Dadant frames? I just received Hillco ones and I am very pleased. Dadant has where you can order in mass and get free shipping but didn't know the quality.

[@kamonreynolds]

Been over a decade since I purchased Dadant Woodenware I have found better sources so I never tried them again. I have heard they have gotten better

[@IllinoisBeekeeper]

Did you look at Dadant? They own their own saw mill. Western Bee Supply

[@codygibbons1513]

I have 1000+ new wooden frames and foundations from Dadant, I had enough distress that I switched to Acorn plastic.

[@markbooth8458]

I have gotten to like beeline frames

[@claudesully]

I assemble everything and nothing ever comes apart... nails in multiple directions and Tite bond glue...

[@paulchristu996]

I personally put all nails in vertically; #16 nails, 1 1/4” through center of top bar, 1” through the bottom; Titebond II glue on all contact surfaces. I never have frames pull apart. The glue is stronger than wood. My view is that the only purpose of the nails is to ensure a snug, square fit while the glue dries. Not saying this to be argumentative, just to share my experience over 8 years of beekeeping 😊.

[@sandischoep7204]

I bought Better Bee synthetic comb in frames 2 years ago, some of my bees still will not use it What are your thoughts? I bought it because Fred spoke highly of it, I e- mailed him, he never responded so I no longer watch his video. I am part of The way to bee fellowship, so I thought he would answer the question, A 78 year old beekeeper who has watched most of your video, and Freds until the was no response Thank for all you bee advice, RCB .

[@abecketthoneyandfreerangee2038]

It’s call cost cutting

[@raterus]

Metric: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... Imperial: 1/16, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16 ...

[@honey_bee_live]

Just placed my Premier order a few days ago

[@illumi-Nate]

Mann lake frames suck, the plastic falls out of the deeps i just bought, then the shallows i had to trim 3/16 off every single foundation...not to mention the quality was just garbage, bad saw burn marks , split wood all throughout the whole order...i will NEVER purchase even the smallest thing from mann lake ever again even if its cheaper than a competitor...even the shipping was bad & i had to call & talk to them & the representative was bad... i hope that everyone pays attention to what people say about mann lake!! They got a great company from walter Kelley & ran it in the ground from greed off our hard earned dollars...i will tell everyone to run from them every chance i get 😂

[@jays200gspsreeftank7]

You'd do backflips if you saw the UK national frames.

[@brianschrombeck7313]

I have the same issue.......I stopped buying thier frames around 4 years ago boooooo

[@kathyhathaway8823]

Man lakes are not what they use to be on there prices also 🤮🤮.

[@blackdiamondsw1]

$1.39 and $2.09 are not "...about the same price."

[@wadeturner2665]

I must be the only beekeeper left that refuses to use hard plastic foundation.

[@robertstwalley3662]

Nope, I am installing the last of 50 pounds of wire reinforced medium foundations. Not happy with the quality of Dadant this go around, thinking I am going to switch to Miller Bee supply from now on. As far as plastic goes, I got a small amount of dura guild out there, but most every thing I have is starter strips or full wax sheets. I am trying to keep the plastic out of the hives. Most of the honey we sell is 1 pound jars or glass Quarts.

[@researcherAmateur]

No. There's half of the world still using wax sheets wired frames. Almost all Europe.. actually I think all... it wouldn't be nice to have AFB and had to burn all that plastic. That's just one reason. People simply don't want plastic with honey and don't care how fast they can be with a product regarded almost as medicine in many countries

[@wadeturner2665]

@@robertstwalley3662 Are you in NC? I ask because you mention Miller.

[@robertstwalley3662]

@@wadeturner2665 Iowa, was using Dadant, but they are not the quality they used to be. I was recommended Miller, so I ordered some frames and wire reinfored wax foundations, all look better than what I was getting from Dadant. 1100$ order early this year from dadant, 50lbs of wax foundations and 400 unasembled frames and they are so sloply cut and foundation is so unsquare it barely fits. I aint gunna do that again.

[@Gardengirl738]

I’m not sure this is a fair comparison . How do you know what their frames are like when you haven’t bought in a long time and you are comparing a frame that has sat out in your bee yard for who knows how long? I just bought frames from Mann Lake. The quality seems great and my bees are drawing them out really fast. Whenever I’ve had a problem I just call and they made it right.

[@kamonreynolds]

Hi Gardengirl thanks for chiming in and hopping on. I do spend about 365 days of the year working with bees, bee companies, expos and speaking gigs so I see many of these companies on the regular and communicate with them often. I haven't purchased boxes in 3-4 years from them but I definitely keep an eye and ear open to any and all changes that happen in the industry. I still have some of Mann Lakes stuff from 10+ years ago and it is better than what I can get now. Mann lake isn't a bad company but I don't like the trend of thinner wood and lower quality wood. I agree they will make it right but I have lived thru years when they were so good they didn't hardly ever have to.

[@jamesguy8087]

I have a lot of Beeline and they have the different sort of tab at the bottom like the premier. So far I’ve liked them. But I assemble my own so I know a nuclear explosion won’t tear them apart 😄

[@TheOutdoorsGuy]

Acorn foundation hands down

[@TennesseeTim73]

Good video kamon

[@kamonreynolds]

Appreciate it!

[@illumi-Nate]

MANN LAKE HAS 1.5 STARS ON TRUST PILOT... EXTREMELY BAD REVIEWS! BOYCOTT MANN LAKE!! I've been waiting a over a week & they havnt even shipped out 5 measly hive bodies..ridiculous! I need them the flow is on right now!!!! & we are going into a weekend so it'll be another week or longer before I receive them

[@dwarlock1978]

Why are so many beekeepers all about purchasing from Amazon?

[@Johnkels100]

Wood and wax. Good for the environment Plastic pollution on land sea and in the air now in humans and animals

[@tonybaker1295]

Just go metric...for the love of GOD!

[@JaiHylRubis]

Professional builders rarely use metric for small measurements. Lol

[@Lousbees]

80% of commercial beekeepers I know use Mann Lake frames. Many won't use any others. I guess they all don't know what they're doing? Is this guy getting paid by Premier?

[@kamonreynolds]

I don't get paid to do these videos. If I did I wouldn't be showing a comparison of the HillCo frame. Commercial guys use ML because they are cheaper to buy not because they are better. I know many guys who use other brands. The ones who flip equipment on the regular can use ML stuff without having to deal with any of the long term ramifications

[@Lousbees]

​@kamonreynolds thank you for the response! The folks I know are in it for pollination services and honey, so they live with the frames as long as they last. We compare notes on equipment all the time. They use Mann Lake frames for a few reasons - best lifetime value is the main reason. Also ML's Rite Cell is the best foundation on the market - much sturdier than any of the competition. Some people also like that ML frames and foundation are 100% made in America. They have new management. You should give them another try!

[@kamonreynolds]

@@Lousbees thanks for the feedback