What happens when you try to be inclusive, but mess up anyway? *A closer look at A Deadly Education*

When an author messes up, how do we decide whether they deserve to be cancelled or make room for growth? Let's discuss! Thx to Squarespace 4 sponsoring. Head to www.squarespace.com/readwithc... to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code READWITHCINDY.
PART 1: Should white authors write non-white characters? A closer look at the Whiteness of Addie LaRue
🎬 Watch here: • Should white authors w...
TIMESTAMPS
⌛ 0:00 - Intro & Squarespace
⌛ 01:04 - Comments: Why we need to write POC
⌛ 03:07 - A Deadly Education
⌛ 05:50 - Criticisms: Dreadlocks
⌛ 09:49 - Criticisms: Biracial Indian protagonist
⌛ 17:30 - When to cancel an author
⌛ 23:49 - Conclusion
A DEADLY EDUCATION BY NAOMI NOVIK
📕 Get the book with free shipping: www.bookdepository.com/A-Dead...
RELEVANT LINKS
📖 Twitter thread calling out problematic aspects of the book: / 1313682794782973953
📖 Naomi Novik's apology: / 1315062787144638465
📖 Book Riot's response to claims of racism in A Deadly Education: bookriot.com/racism-in-naomi-...
📖 Naga Reviews the intersectionality of A Deadly Education: nusantaranaga.wordpress.com/2...
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🎬 My book wrapup that included A Deadly Education and Addie LaRue: • I POINT A KNIFE AT YOU...
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[@rokeyaghani6382]

"deadly education" me going to in-person classes: 👀

[@withcindy]

NOOOOOOOOOO

[@rokeyaghani6382]

@@withcindy skskskkssk this is pinned? omg :O

[@pxdden6664]

Someone had to say it

[@PeachSweetxo]

you really are risking it all sis lol

[@rokeyaghani6382]

@@PeachSweetxo I am 😔😔😔

[@AafiyaBhayani22]

as an indian person it's also quite interesting that u see a character not showering and ur thought immediatly goes to "oh that's because she's indian isnt she". like??? maybe the problem is YOU if you that's where ur thoughts go, esp when people of other races also don't shower in the school.

[@arishakhan3073]

I thought the exact same thing! People blame others for being the cause of triggering their mindset. "Oh, this book make me realise I think indians are not hygenic, this book should be cancelled for exposing me!"

[@YoureRightIThink]

When the woke people turn out to be the racists themselves 😳

[@stonecat676]

this is a chicken and egg problem did the association come first or was it after race reveal?

[@AafiyaBhayani22]

@@YoureRightIThink it's always the white liberals with their victimisation bs like . Come on

[@vikiszabo5939]

Waaaaait who the heck showers in school ewww Is this an American thing? We have showers in the school too but nobody ever uses them

[@mimirants7935]

Today is the first day I, an indian, found out that we are stereotyped as "not showering" and I am truly speechless because my grandparents used to wake up every day to curse at white people for not showering and wearing shoes inside the house bshshdbdgd

[@ScorpionFlower95]

I am a white person and this is forbidden in my house. Also, lying on the bed with shoes. Like, are you guys (people who do it) okay? Who hurt you? Who are you running away from?

[@bookswithmina9716]

this is so true😂

[@ShirinHossain04]

So trueee like Indians hold hygiene so high up that outside shoes are not allowed inside the house and we are dirty 🤣

[@khushi1767]

this is the realest thing I've ever heard

[@ShirinHossain04]

@@ScorpionFlower95 ikr I would be so uncomfortable with shoes in my bed like wtf is wrong with you bro 🧐

[@lilyportan9915]

when woke twitter is so woke it is actually conservative

[@EtamirTheDemiDeer]

poc only spaces is legit just segregation and it scares me

[@aijsdijdni3401]

@@EtamirTheDemiDeer um...POC only places...?

[@EtamirTheDemiDeer]

@@aijsdijdni3401 I was referring to situations such as the black college student saying, “Frankly, there's just too many white people in here,” and, “This is a space for people of color...” regarding white people being in the multicultural center. The university has since said that the center is for all students, so the term POC only spaces could be taken as a misrepresentation of the situation and I apologize for that, but the sentiment behind such a statement is quite concerning to me. And I’m speaking as a Chinese kid adopted by a white family raised and living in a predominantly white area, both of which I love very much

[@azraphon]

@@EtamirTheDemiDeer There's some nuance to it. Is is POC only as enforced by white folks, such as in the Jim Crow south? Or is it POC only as enforced by POC in the attempt to create a safe space? They are both technically segregation, but the motivations are very different.

[@EtamirTheDemiDeer]

@@azraphon you make an excellent point, thank you

[@swhedha]

if she isnt speaking the language, is she really indian? India: *has english as its national language*

[@dorothea_ivy]

*one of the two official languages. India does not have a national language :)

[@pyromania2280]

@@dorothea_ivy doesn't india have over 20 something official languages

[@RoseBaggins]

@@pyromania2280 it does.

[@brunetteartist2750]

@@pyromania2280 india has 22 officially recognized languages and english and hindi are at the top Also india does not have a national language

[@pyromania2280]

@@brunetteartist2750 oh ok

[@studybuddy.]

Indian American here. There’s no winning. People are always going to criticize you. Too many white characters vs don’t write outside your culture because you don’t have the experience so you don’t have the right. Have non white characters? The non white characters are acting too white. Oh , they’re not acting “white?” They’re a racist stereotype! There’s no winning. Now there are authors that write characters horribly, but there are also online mobs ready to tear creators apart for every little thing that they personally for some reason don’t like that they find offensive. Internet fan culture is toxic. Many creators are scared to be creative. Heck, people get death threats on twitter if they don’t make a ship happen. There’s no room for growth or development or plot twists. You have to be perfect for everyone always or face a landslide of cruelty. That’s so exhausting.

[@cloudyheart5148]

It's not hard to do research on stereotypes before making a character miss me with the woe is me

[@Anyutaak]

@@cloudyheart5148 i think the point of the original comment is that there will always be someone who will find something wrong with your work. this can happen even if you do your best and avoid stereotypes and genuinely research and respect the culture of your character. kind of like cindy said--what if an author wrote an asian character that was, like, good at math? or very smart in general? even if it made complete sense in the story, one could definitely see it as a perpetuating a stereotype. so, yeah, where do we draw the line?

[@studybuddy.]

Anna K exactly. It’s easy to say “just do research and you’ll be fine 🙄” but the problem is not everyone agrees. Just go to Twitter and you’ll see different “woke” people tearing each other apart to be the most righteous. If you think interviewing 1000 people of the same culture or sex or whatever will result in them all agreeing, well that’s just ignorant.

[@studybuddy.]

Cloudy Heart “iT’s NoT hArD tO dO rEsEaRcH”

[@cloudyheart5148]

@@studybuddy. oh my god you can use caps want a cookie!

[@thomasandrewclifford]

You don't cancel an attempt at inclusivity, you notice the attempt, highlight the shortcomings and educate the person on how to do better (ideally without that person feeling like shit for even trying).

[@Thenoobestgirl]

Exactly!

[@Bookdragon11]

Agreed 😊

[@kulthum9571]

I know so much hate for no reason, I’m literally an Indian and didn’t have any problem with this.

[@zkme2734]

yeah, i dont think thats how the internet works buddy

[@DrBoyZepho]

​@@zkme2734literally

[@palakvadher1053]

To all those people saying she doesn’t speak the language- Marathi IS an Indian language from Maharashtra which is where her father was from. Also she spoke Sanskrit which is like a mother to SO many Indian languages... I genuinely don’t know how they thought she didn’t speak an Indian language.

[@pineapplesbringpain5243]

Ikr! And what is exactly Indian enough for them? There’s a shit ton of languages that are spoken in India! Istg these people-

[@115_vaibhavidangre4]

Hey can we....can we be friends? 🥺👉👈 None of my friends read books! I have nobody to talk to about fandoms and my favourite ships lol

[@palakvadher1053]

@@115_vaibhavidangre4 ohmygod YES! My friends don’t read books too 🙄✋🏽 They’re all missing out tbh

[@115_vaibhavidangre4]

@@palakvadher1053 ikr! But idk how to do this. Should we like exchange instagram ids or something? Assuming you have an account

[@choihaeki]

People complaining probably those who are ignorant about the diversity of countries not their own

[@clairvaux8459]

"Is she a good representation of Indian people if she is too white?" Me, a Chinese person who is only fluent in English and nearly completely illiterate in Mandarin: chuckles "I'm in danger..."

[@withcindy]

Tbh same

[@Cor789]

Hah! As a Chinese, I agree. English is just soo much easier.

[@discountasian]

LMAO don't call me out

[@sweetpeabee4983]

_Wen mang_ solidarity, friend! 🙌

[@ary_e_martinez]

I'm mixed and despite being raised by my Salvadorian dad as well, I barely know any Spanish or anyhting about the culture. I only really feel connected to the norse side of my heritage

[@ahoam]

'Is she white washed or is she an Indian girl being stereotyped?' Cindy said pick a struggle😂

[@withcindy]

Pretty much!!

[@futurestoryteller]

People were saying she was "white washed" but also "brown and dirty"

[@dismurrart6648]

See if you wanna have either critique go off but im kinda miffed people wanna have both.

[@aspillust]

like miss girl pick one you can't have both /s /j

[@callmema14]

As someone's who's been called whitewashed by my own people and stereotyped in white spaces...both can happen but that's not the case with this book/protagonist.

[@eggber9039]

i'd rather have a non-white character act "normal" and have a personality rather than always having to remind the audience their race every goddamn second. but that's just my humble opinion as a filipino with zero representation in mainstream media 😴

[@Mac-J]

amen

[@saarah0006]

I was reading skyward by Brandon Sanderson and didn’t realise that the main love interest was supposed to have brown skin until the second book where its just mentioned under one small line. I also didn’t realise that the mc’s close friend was black either until I saw fanart of her either. Other YA books should be like that. Representation matters but its not the defining trait that needs to be shoved in our faces and mentioned every time those character are shown.

[@eggber9039]

​@@saarah0006 Right!! It's like.. thanks, great idea, love the inclusivity, good concept- but horrible execution lmao

[@rakatsceptic6379]

@@saarah0006 can't argue with that, dude's a god when it comes to writting.. A modern genius...

[@zyannegabrielle5928]

nah, let's not ask representation from murica. they'll probably just mess it up

[@dawnshade4939]

I saw something once which is "If you are white you are allowed to write a black character, but don't write a story about them being black." And I find this a very good concept because you are allowed to write characters who are not yourself, but if you centre the entire story about them being a minority (e.g. coming of age trans/gay story) and you are not part of that minority then it gets tricky. Edit: coming back to this comment a few years later and also reading through criticism in the replies has helped me realise that while what I said is still something agree with there is more wiggle room with writing characters from groups you are not a part of. Also there is one saying that I learnt in the interim that I feel was what I was trying to say originally "Nothing about us, without us" which was originally created by disability advocates and activists who were tried of the very bad disability representation in media which was almost wholly created by abled people. People are able to create stories with characters from minorities which they are a part of, but if they're going to do that then they need to listen to people from those minorities and do the research to write those characters.

[@mandydanidoes]

I've read this too and I think it's a fantastic piece of advice!

[@soyboy6953]

This absolutely sums my thoughts up on this topic.

[@latteknowsbest6365]

I was just thinking something similar to this while watching the video! White authors can write about poc but shouldn’t write about poc struggles and their identities.

[@reneelucero2923]

Just because something is tricky doesn’t mean you can’t do it correctly…you literally just have to be willing to listen and put their experiences over your own predetermined idea of what the story should be about. Everyone can write about everything, but you have to actually try to understand.

[@antifantastisch4467]

I get what you're saying, I can't help finding it weird to make rules of what can & can't be written though. That's a bit creepy.

[@leanykakicsi6152]

Pls don’t hate Naoimi Novik. She tried her best and made an honest mistake. She could learn and write better if people educated her instead of cancelling. For her previous book she was criticized for not writing Jewish characters right - even though she IS Jewish.

[@diana5281]

This has the flavor of white people telling other people (white and non white) how to write minorities in a way that appeals to THEM. If somebody told me (a Jew) me, I didn’t represent MYSELF correctly, I would probably slap them

[@kannot1]

I've been wanting to read more books with Jewish main characters, please tell me the name of the book😭❤

[@curubb86]

@@kannot1 it's called Spinning Silver :):)

[@meganb8644]

@@curubb86 I just finished that book a couple of days ago, and I loved it.

[@skyward7903]

"she was criticized for not writing Jewish characters right - even though she IS Jewish." What I'm about to say is gonna be exaggerated but this seems so Hitler-reign like. Their propaganda was so strong and manipulative that it forced minorities to act as the stereotypes set up by THEM in order to "rebel" against the system; and were criticized by others (and even their own community) when they didn't do it.

[@alisha_1972]

The whole criticism of El being whitewashed irks me a lot. As an Indian person raised in Ohio, I’ve always struggled with not feeling “Indian enough” and for people to complain that the character is too whitewashed just makes me wonder what they think constitutes as being Indian. It’s as if someone like that would think that I’m not Indian enough just because I like pizza and western movies (despite being the daughter of two immigrants from India!) The whole situation with the author being canceled makes me think of a video ContraPoints did on canceling, where she highlights how a lot of canceling nowadays is more about isolating the person in question from their community and attacking them, as opposed to helping them understand their mistakes and growing as a person.

[@withcindy]

That's def how cancelling feels like :(

[@-inactive-7000]

exactlyyy (also! you like contrapointsss i smell taste)

[@jopark4990]

honestly totally relate with u about the not feeling “indian enough” thing. it seems like all the indians i know are very acquainted with their indian culture but i’m just not really. so i feel like kind of ostracized .

[@olioh758]

at the same time, if you are going to profit from telling a story featuring a poc character it should not fall on the community that you disappointed to then educate you on what you did wrong...

[@thefrancophilereader8943]

Same. I am definitely not Iranian or Indian enough. Many of us who grow up mixed-ethnic in the US tend to lose connection with our parents' cultures.

[@Similaar]

It's so exhausting. As a black woman myself, I'm really frustrated by this relentless backlash because there's nothing that I wish more than to have more POC in books. I'm so tired of only reading about white people. But readers just don't give room for it. Even authors who aren't white struggle immensely with this, because people always have something to say. In all honesty, many of these typical backlash comments feel more racist than anything. Someone's skin colour does not determine how they act, their upbringing does. Like, this is exactly what racism has always been based on, the idea that we're different just because of our skin colour. We're not, our behaviour is entirely determined by culture, upbringing, socio political rules etc. So what the fuck does it mean when black characters in fantasy books with completely fictional nations and cultures are called 'not black enough'? Literally what the fuck does that mean. I'm so tired of seeing POC being called 'white washed' when they're just living according to their upbringing. It just feels like we're expected to fit caricatures just because of our race. It's like we're going backwards. Black people exist all over the world, there is not one way to act 'black'. Same goes for all other races and ethnicities. I recently learned that anger releases dopamine, it's quite literally addictive, and it shows, because at this point it feels like people are just being angry for the sake of being angry. It's doing more damage than good, and it's really frustrating to see, because it's really impeding our progress. Bullying authors and leaving no room for improvement after an honest mistake is why we don't get diversity.

[@edayavuz1667]

Exactly. This behavior just feeds into the belief that those critics who talk abt race in books are just snowflakes

[@PublisherGatineauHills]

This. This. This. This. My sister-in-law and I sit together, our feet up, watching tv. She knits. We drink tea. We laugh like hell at the same stuff on tv. She's black. I'm white. We don't give a shit. We have a blast because we have a similar culture, politics, values, and sense of humour.

[@cosmicxani4830]

I agree with you 12871489214982146921649826489216482164981268%. I genuinely agree with you so, so much. I'm so tired because of all this crap and I'm a white person. I care so much about representing everyone and just want to add PoC characters into my book, but I'm anxious because there's always those Twitter people that have stuff to say about it. You add a PoC character? Backlash, especially if you're white while doing that. You don't add people of color? Backlash. And I do understand that last bit 100% --- our world desperately needs representation of all sorts of people, but how are you telling me to add PoC characters yet get mad when I actually do it? So yeah... we are quite literally going backwards and it's so sad man. As you said, race DOES NOT affect the goddamn way you act. It's your upbringing. My character is not fucking "not __ enough", and there is no way to act ___. There are so many people of that race/ethnicity around the world, everyone is different. The race/ethnicity is still in their blood. Also, saying that kind of shit can be really hurtful to people in real life who are worried about not being "enough" of their identity. Anyway, thank you so much for writing this comment. I agree with you 10000% and we really, really need more people like you. Have an amazing day from the bottom of my heart

[@Similaar]

@@cosmicxani4830 YES. I agree a 10000% with literally everything you said. The thing you mention about it being hurtful for people who are already worried about not being "enough" of their ethnicity/race is also SO true. Plenty of people are not born in their native country or are second/third generation immigrants who are surrounded with a different culture than their native culture, which of course, influences them. It's so harmful to push this narrative that it makes them frauds and that they are not "enough" of their identity. That if you act in whatever way you were raised, you're doing something terribly wrong. The last part of your message is so sweet ahh💕 wishing you a wonderful day as well!

[@danieltobin4498]

Someone give this person an award because they just nailed it on the head!!!

[@lacimiller1522]

Honestly, I read and loved this book. I am a black woman with dreadlocks and I guess I wasn't effected by that paragraph because I didn't remember it until this video. I think a major issue with internet "wokeness" is that it is often taken to the extreme. As a POC I appreciate that there are people who want so badly to be allies. The issue becomes when an allies cries of outrage drown out those of actual POC's. I think we as human beings need to be more understanding and look at the intentions of people rather than just the action. It is easier to correct a misguided but well intended action then outright bigotry. But if the person is feeling attacked you end up traumatizing them instead of guiding or teaching them. No one is an outright cultural expert including POC's

[@LadyRokubi]

Black too, and honestly was confused by the deadlocks backlash. I get "why" but it almost feels like people where looking for a fight. Deadlock are a perfectly normal hair style for young adults and can produce thick sections of hair. There's a comment somewhere else in this section saying this problem could have been adverted if the author had just said "locks of hair" which kinda annoyed me. It's almost like we can't even get to normalize back hairstyles and you have to make it almost white washed with "locks". Like saying these leeches get into dreadlocks conveyed a message to me that even if your hair is clean and managed you can't go with low maintenance long hairstyles because of this risk. If people are so unfamiliar with dreadlocks and that kids those age would see as an option to help improve their hygiene, how are you supposed to incorporate natural everyday influences from black culture? Honestly, if they had said "locks" of hair, what hairstyles would they have even been talking about that would fulfill the necessary need of hiding something because you don't go through all your hair, just do touch ups? Protective styles, right? And then you just have another case of where something is black in theory, but not black in application.

[@kylehahn4410]

I'm white/asian, but I figure that the dreadlock paragraph was more from just the writer not even knowing about the history of prejudice around dreadlocks, so they probably wrote it from the same perspective of "long hair is bad 'cause it can be grabbed" within the context of the story. So it's interesting because this is technically a racially neutral or color blind perspective, but becomes racial in the context of our society.

[@serahbay8864]

dang girl, too much common sense in this comment. great points 👍

[@GH-Rav]

I was hesitant to read this book because of all the comments but I'm gonna give it a chance. It seems that I'll need to read it for myself before I judge it. I loved her other book 'Uprooted' and bought this book before all the comments flooded in so I guess I'll see if it is worth the money or time.

[@Poorstargazer23]

@@kylehahn4410 the history of dreadlocks is a moot point. In the context of the story, no matter the history of dreadlocks, long hair would be a risk. If the author went out of her way to say long hair the risk but dreadlocks aren't because she was afraid of of continuing dreadlock prejudice then that would actually be slight racism as she would be seeing and treating black hair as "different" hair. Being realistic about the world you live in, where literal trays of lunch food for the kids can have monsters in it waiting to kill them, isn't racist in my opinion, it's world building. Having those monsters arbitrarily avoid people of color.... Maybe more racist lol.

[@andreaherran4902]

“If she isn’t speaking the language, is she really Indian?” Me, half Filipino and half Cuban who doesn’t speak Tagalog or Spanish: uh oh bestie 😍

[@greenflavored]

Me, fully Filipino who doesn’t understand tagalog and doesnt have a good relationship with my cousins: 🏃🏻‍♀️ 💨💨

[@withcindy]

It's ok I barely speak Viet

[@baguette_5867]

Me, a half filipino and half puerto rican who can barely speak tagalog or spanish: 😀😀😀

[@andreaherran4902]

@@baguette_5867 wow we’re twinning 😘😘😜

[@jennierainyday3091]

Same, I barely speak Tagalog or Spanish and I'm half-Filipino and half-Mexican haha hey besties.😝

[@adrianbooklecter7545]

cindys comment section is like a family reunion without the racist grandparents but double the wine aunt that questions her sexuality

[@lunarballoonistxo]

I'm so glad I don't have racist grandparents... But I do have a drunken aunt

[@cm1868]

soo true & i luv ur kaz brekker profile pic. the crows are a part of a collage on the background of my phone right now ;D

[@Ms_Ria]

Omg I LOVE this comment🤣🤣🤣

[@withcindy]

Why is this so accurate

[@adrianbooklecter7545]

@@cm1868 six of crows is still my life

[@japanesemyth]

I find that the dreadlock part, at least personally as a black person (this isn't universal of course) it felt inclusive. Because I was in my head thinking about how I would survive in this school like oh I wouldn't have to shave I would just braid or lock my hair then instantly got hit with that paragraph. Within the context of the book it felt natural- of course my opinion doesn't trump the feelings of thousands but it felt less like "dreadlocks are dirty" and more like "there's no way have your cake and eat it to- everybody is gonna die" especially since no character got to keep their hair. Everyone's bald. Just like everyone isn't showering.

[@helpme5785]

I'm white, so I don't have any leeway in this discussion, but I got that impression too. So much fantasy only covers how fantasy problems would effect white people, that "lock leeches" felt like it was a purposeful example about how this effects non white people, and specifically black people. No one is excluded from the problems in this book. There are no easy work arounds because an author had no concept of cultural differences. There are many ways to be specifically targeted, here is an example of one of the many ways that can be done. If you have magic, the monsters will get you.

[@minimi870]

I'm wondering if the problem could have been solved by simply naming another example with a more traditionally white hairstyle that poses similar problems. In that way, it would have been more clear that it has nothing to do with the stereotype it's just a general thing.

[@imawakemymindisalive13]

i have stick straight hair, but i had a similar thought, im attached to my long hair so i thought, oh i could just keep it in a tight bun and redo it every few days but then nope, that would be the worst thing i could do! i didn’t think the leeches attaching to hair was a sign of the hair being dirty, just that it was hair. i think that people who are actively looking for signs of harmful stereotypes or people who have racist biases and make assumptions off of that might interpret it in the way cindy described but i feel like for the majority of the target audience, they wouldn’t read that deeply into it.

[@glh5622]

I thought the loc leaches added a layer of horror, kinda liked it. That's too bad she got dragged. But I get it as a black woman who went natural during lockdown. People say the funkiest shit about black hair 😂

[@epapes730]

*writes an un-stereotyped brown character* You're white-washing them! *writes an non white-washed brown character* You're stereotyping them! People are who they are because of the circumstances under which they are raised, and a half-Indian character that was raised in the UK after being forsaken by her Indian family would probably naturally have some detachment from her Indian heritage. I think some people are outraged by this because it's a social trend to try and find flaws in something. Canceling someone can be appropriate in certain cases, but cancel culture can also be extremely toxic.

[@miraturtlerabbit6978]

soooo late to this video lol but this represents my opinion exactly!!

[@quixotiq]

This!

[@lauranorambuena1729]

"Being a specific race is not a personality traits " ❤👄❤

[@withcindy]

And yet the internet would beg to differ lol

[@ww.DuzaFizz]

Okay but seriously, when did it become a thing for race to be a whole personality. It's 100% part of your identity, but when people write up a character with nothing but their race, they end up relying on stereotypes which does a great disservice to the characters.

[@genmea]

This! This has been bothering me so much for the past couple of years, especially here on booktube everyone talking about race as if it's their personality. Dividing people in two the categories of veing "poc" or "white" as if that can tell you anything about the person's background and that it's somehow inclusive enough. Can you tell me that a Black American will have the same experience as a Chinese American or even better someone that actually comes from Nigeria, Kenya, Ghana or one of the other many South African countries. And regarding "whiteness", because putting all white people under the same umbrella isn't racist at all, there is such a wide difference between how people in different white countries grow up. I'm from Eastern Europe, I am Slavic, my countrymen where enslaved for 500 years under the Ottoman empire, we were behind the Iron curtain. I can guarantee you, culture wise and how I grew up has nothing in common with someone from France or the UK, even less with a white person from the states. Where you grew up, how you grew up, who where you surrounded by, what major events happened where you lived determine who you are. Your personality is not determined by skin colour but here on booktube that seems to be the common notion.

[@kitkatxk2814]

@@genmea Yes. Thank you so much. This comment is beautiful. I wish Cindy saw this. This is exactly what is wrong with the world right now. How did a skin type become someones whole essence. Does a soul have race? When any of us leave our bodies behind will our tombstone say here lies a person of color or a person of non color? They were as stereotypical as they come. No, why? Because the ones we love will fill our plaques with the things that made our essence, our soul, our light inside us. Because the impact we have on the people around us can very much be from the way we look, but it may also be just from our own morality, personality, and themes in our own lives. We live and breathe the world around us, but we don't have to let it define us. We don't have to let someone tell us how we need to feel. When we break down to someones core, we are not seeing their color, but rather the parts of them that make them who they are. Their traits, their hopes, their dreams, their experiences. And those things, while sometimes affected by a skin color, are not existence on skin alone.

[@erina2600]

I often make up a characters personality and then design their appearance, I feel like this is a better way of doing it?

[@samshri954]

As an Indian American, I found Twitter users bringing up the hurtful stereotypes of Indians not showering much more racist than anything Naomi Novik did. Especially when in the world she created the not showering made sense and applied to everyone.

[@withcindy]

Yeah I'm curious if those ppl on Twitter were Indian or were "allies" 🤔

[@nailaimam7263]

@@withcindy people use the term allies to just perpetuate their own existing stereotypes. As an indian, ive seen it more than enough.

[@justwannafreefx9419]

But it's also strange and confusing because as an Indian in India there almost too much showering sometimes :")

[@nailaimam7263]

@@justwannafreefx9419 exactly! some ppl dont even enter their kitchens until they've take a shower!

[@xxllamaborrachaxx9374]

Yeah, fun fact about "allies" is that they often turn out to be just as racist as the openly racist people. Like those peeps who keep saying that if you're white, you cannot be a Latino (or even speak Spanish, like wtf?). Meanwhile, all non brown Latinos (because there are white, afro and even asian as well) are like: "The fridge is wrong with this moron?"

[@swamp.witch420]

i just finished a deadly education yesterday and i’m guessing a lot of people engaging in this discourse forgot about just how much the author does talk about El’s experience growing up biracial on the commune with her white mother. there are passages describing how the other people in the commune were likely to assume she wasn’t related to her mom, and instances in which the people in the commune wanted El to lead them in an “authentic” yoga practice even though she was a child and had never lived in India before. It was made pretty apparent to me that she was biracial and had experienced the effects of her perceived race growing up

[@camhusmj38]

Exactly this - she even recalled receiving a racist comment about her skin colour!

[@NightmareDaisy]

I feel like a big problem with the "she's too white cause she doesn't talk about being indian but when she's dirty is because she's indian" is that it's easy for readers to see their own bias and stereotypes in the work. The dreadlocks part was a faux-pas as you said because it was singled out, but if the only informations someone retains about a character is that she's a poc and dirty (when it's a problem shared by others by a given point of the story) and their first thought is to link it to her race perhaps it has less to do with the book itself and more with how people read characters of color?

[@Thenoobestgirl]

Yes.

[@Hi-Hi1990]

​@@Givebackthescarf....but everybody was dirty????

[@jamieann4005]

@@Givebackthescarf forgive me if I'm wrong, but as far as I could tell from this video (I'd never heard of the book, just like watching Cindy's videos. Also I'm white so I understand that my viewing will inherently be different to yours and you can feel well within your rights to correct me on anything I may have gotten wrong or may need to open my eyes to) the point was that you can't maintain your hair, and even if you do you may still get attacked by a monster, so just get rid of the hair altogether. Obviously, you are well within your rights to be annoyed by the insert - that is your opinion, and especially if you've been criticised for your hair before it may hit a nerve that was (seemingly) never intended - but I think that it's important to consider the story itself (its world, its rules, etc.) and why the details are necessary rather than how those details may be perceived in our reality (within reason, there are obviously times where the inserts are written with the intent to be harmful)

[@mintymindful]

i know this video will be good because cindy quoted hannah montana

[@withcindy]

How could I not

[@sakasusuk]

Because she was indeed a great philosopher that’s why

[@jdb6026]

You know what, you're right. 👈😬👈

[@Dragonfly9087]

No one should create anything ever again

[@withcindy]

Starting NOW

[@scylla1772]

I've been procrastinating my writing projects for weeks, I'm on a roll!!

[@sophiaredwood5825]

@@scylla1772 OMG SAME

[@Goiriath]

I have dreadlocks. I thought it was saying that people were shaving because other *low maintenance* hairstyles, like dreads or plaits didn't work because of monsters. Assuming dreadlocks are dirty is depressing, and feels like racist assumptions on the part of the readers, not the author. I keep having to explain that dreads are, physically, felted hair. Like felting wool, hair felts better when it's overly clean - soap, no oil or conditioner. Hair struggles to dread naturally if it isn't clean, so assuming it's dirty??? :( :( :( Also, the fact that a white critic didn't think the main character was stereotypically 'poc' enough, but Indian reader picked up on the cues that were important... 🙄 I know which one seems relevant to me.

[@kim-hendrikmerk4163]

Yea seems like people are trying to introduce racist ideas where there was only good world building. (before this video I had never heard that dreadlocks should suggest bad hygiene)

[@scheherazade2291]

I am biracial but I don’t know why I have to show my non-whiteness in order to be validated as a WoC. Why does there have to be obvious “culture” in order to be considered “diverse” enough? Thanks for addressing this.

[@erin8969]

"The only thing you need to focus on in your entire time in school is to not die." ... so just... normal school...?

[@withcindy]

Pretty much

[@lenvesa]

i was scrolling through the comments and found this one at the EXACT SAME time cindy said it lmao

[@erina2600]

Oh god I forgot Americans existed for a second, this comment... perplexed me

[@snybies]

Oh god, i don't have school in USA yet i relate with that

[@frostkiss2]

I think it's good that a character isn't reduced to their skin colour. Let's be honest. Only a poc know how to write, well, in the perspective of a poc. You can't shame white authors not being diverse enough and then blame them of not being "authentic" enough. Like .... give the people that try a rest and support authors who are poc. But I'm a white person, which means, as much as I try, I won't understand in my core what it is to be a poc in the book community. At least I can support poc writing and publishing.

[@alexz3t899]

I get what you’re saying but I think a good way to make sure you ARE writing poc authentically is to have sensitivity readers.

[@eclipse5954]

@@alexz3t899 but even then, the sensitivity readers you choose might be okay with the content in the book, while others that belong to the same culture or sexuality or gender might not be, after it's published. Sensitivity readers don't speak for the whole culture, sexuality, or gender, and neither do the people offended by the representation so I think that's why it's so hard to tell people what the right thing is, because it's so complicated and everyone feels differently.

[@dayenoms6011]

But characters in a book don't need to represent whole cultures, they are just one person. Individuals comprise groups, and to that end hiring sensitivity readers provides feedback from readers primed to find a select set of issues with the manuscript.

[@eclipse5954]

@@dayenoms6011 I see your point, and I agree with you. It is still a good idea, and there's a better chance that someone will point out some things that you may have missed or not realized were issues, but I just meant that even if they're okay with the representation, there will still be people that find it offensive or poor representation, even though a character doesn't represent a whole culture like you said and is just one way of portraying someone, others from that same culture or gender or sexuality still might consider it to be poor representation or offensive. Like this book, there are lots of comments here from people saying that they thought the character was portrayed accurately or it was relatable and they're Indian themselves or have mixed heritage and never learned part of their culture, whereas other people don't consider the character to be "Indian enough" or they think the whole showering thing is a negative stereotype associated with their culture, whereas others just associate it with the world-building. Idk if Naomi had sensitivity readers though 😂 I just mean that people will have different views of what is good or accurate representation no matter how careful you are. Still a good idea to have sensitivity readers though, I agree 100%

[@drawingsticks5333]

As a poc, I can only write my own perspective and then I have to get a sensitive reader like everyone else. Like the fuck do I know about being a Black American, I'm none of these things. American white authors are actually a step ahead of me.

[@jessicaheller9594]

I just finished A Deadly Education and The Last Graduate and came here to see what everyone else thought, but what stands out to me in this video is that no one is talking about how her dad DIED when he was trying to graduate. It's not that she doesn't have a relationship with her dad, it's that he died before she was born and then his family had a very dramatic reaction when they met her. Him not being alive, and his family not wanting to have anything to do with El, is a big factor in how her character grew up.

[@happyoctopuses]

Something about the “the author didn’t say she was brown” is that when a person reads a book their own biases come out- you’re imagining the characters not just based on the words on the page but also the internal biases you have. So if you default to “white until described otherwise” that isn’t just on the author for not describing them well enough. You could have been seeing her as brown the whole time anyway.

[@zoeb3573]

That's a very good point. I personally don't always assume the character is white unless proven otherwise. My brain goes wherever it wants. It's a bit like "straight unless proven otherwise". But the straight characters never have to prove they're straight even if they're single and don't have a way to show it.

[@Ms_Ria]

Cindy: isn't that the person who made fairy dick jokes? The internet: isn't that the furry booktuber?

[@withcindy]

I am known for many things

[@lykkel5387]

She is multifaceted

[@littleprincess4615]

As many different faces as a dodecahedron

[@matthewvp8507]

ngl the first video I watched from withcindy was full of fairy dick jokes. I had no choice but to subscribe

[@isaps8730]

I know Cindy from that clip on TikTok where she slaps ACOWAR and says; “bitch what fucking plot? Where is it? Where’s the fucking plot? You look me in the eye right now and tell me what fucking kind of plot there was”

[@artemiswolf4508]

*Me writing a character from a certain race and culture* : Is this well represented? Did I white wash her too much? Im I leaning into stereotypes? Am I being disrespectful? *Me remembering the character is from the same culture and race as me* : 👁👄👁

[@RaetheSaint]

Lmaooo me with my MC 😂

[@blankbla7101]

Bro I relate too much

[@kailak.8064]

Literally yup yup yup

[@cousinpuff643]

Omg dude same XD

[@amynye7218]

I know this comment is old but I relate to this so much lol

[@sora1498]

i feel like some of the people calling her out were actually subconsciously being racist and i think that kinda goes to speak on this bigger issue. sometimes, its not even the author's fault, its these people pinpointing their own racial stereotypes onto a character because of their race, something as small as, like you said, being good at math. when i read the line about not showering, i know 100% my mind did not go to "oh its because she's indian right?" it went to "oh, its part of the world's dynamic." so why is that the main reaction when it was not how it was intended at all? i think a lot of these people accidentally exposed their own prejudices and its interesting

[@mangoesyum]

exactly! a lot of the criticisms for this book came from 'allies' accidentally exposing their internalized racism

[@kim-hendrikmerk4163]

It states quite clearly that most people there don't shower more than once or twice a week. And her less because she comes across with an evil vibe. Nothing to do with anything Indian or any other race.

[@Professor_Brie]

Yeah, people are making a grave mistake if they believe they lack prejudice just because mentally they agree that it’s wrong. People that assume they have no prejudice because of that are very likely to let prejudices they didn’t know they had go unchecked, and that seems to be what’s happening with these people.

[@quixotiq]

Exactly. And you CANNOT control readers' responses.

[@quixotiq]

You are 100% WRONG about JK Rowling. Bad bandwagon to jump on, Ms Cindy.

[@greco-romano9852]

What if we don't, "Cancel" the book? What if we just acknowledge that it's flawed, give feedback to the creator, let them sit on it, and with goodwill, give them a chance to learn from it? For what comprises a human but successes and failures? More so, who are we to deny redemption? Are we the humane in denying someone the chance to fail? Are we the humane in denying someone the chance to succeed? To take away someone else's right, to be human?

[@Aka-wy7iw]

yessssss

[@erebusvonmori8050]

If you cut me do I not bleed? Well said.

[@whyistheskyyellow8681]

Yes.

[@CollinBuckman]

This is Twitter we're talking about. Twitter is where all nuance goes to die.

[@mathis3440]

It’s the same issue with LGBT representation, there’s no such thing as a universal experience so any way you write a character is going to resonate with some people and not others. It’s why “the main character isn’t relatable” is kind of a bullshit criticism.

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

Every LGBT+ person has come out, that's universal. How this is received varies. Write about being generally accepted unless you have experiences similar to having your identity rejected.

[@MrGreyseptember]

I'm an LGBTQ+ person who doesn't know how to write LGBTQ+ characters so people don't say it's not a true representation.

[@emanueldornelles3177]

A great way to avoid many stereotypes is just writing more minority characters and representing even more and with different nuances.

[@Air_Serpent]

@@MrGreyseptember same. I haven’t had any experiences (bi, closeted), so I’d have to do research if I ever do a contemporary LGBT story. A benefit of fantasy, at least.

[@verybarebones]

Wasnt there a recent issue with a trans or bi main character being critiqued for being stereotypical and it turned out to be autobiographical??

[@leeann1140]

Why would El ever explicitly state that she’s biracial or brown that’s not how people talk if she was a white main character that wouldn’t be expected. It kind of annoying that unless a character is explicitly stated as a POC people will assume they are white.

[@withcindy]

White should not be considered the default!

[@archilarchives]

I can 100% confirm that I never think about myself in terms of race as a mixed person. None of my friends bring it up either. It's almost like they see me as a normal human and not a race. Who would just casually state their race in conversation?

[@randomuserwitharandomname6183]

@@miracel3075 I never saw it that way, but you're so right!

[@isabellen.1753]

​@pink_calculators I was gonna say the same thing! I definitely identify myself as Central Asian pretty often and make jokes about being CA. Idk I just think this conversation can sometimes get too close to the "there's only one race, the human race"/colorblindness rhetoric lmao

[@megancarvalho457]

As a non-american, I literally cannot distinguish between what's a common stereotype there and a character trait, so I don't really have a knee jerk reaction to something potentially offensive. So, a lot of these things really just make me sad for the authors of all these books.

[@psimoes2000]

The thing is that people are bigoted in so many ways that there is just way too many stereotypes that get thrown around, often contradictory ones.

[@psimoes2000]

@@Givebackthescarf That's fair, I can't really recall the exact context in which I wrote the comment since it's 2 years old.

[@Lab-Gr0wn-Lambs]

I once saw a popular tumblr post that said something to the effect of "able bodied white women shouldn't write. We don't need them anymore." What kinda attitude is that? "Don't follow your dreams, kids. Your thoughts have no worth."

[@nadiaromantini8836]

if i cripple myself can i write now

[@matrixpolaris679]

That's literally just discrimination lmao, I don't understand how these people aren't aware that shit like this is exactly what racists and fascists say but just towards another group of people.

[@lowquality49]

@@matrixpolaris679 not the nazism and fascism card... sorry but this is definitely exaggerating and its literally no different from people trying to act woke

[@matrixpolaris679]

@@lowquality49 I'm not just calling that a fascist-lite comment out of nowhere, how is saying that able-bodied white women shouldn't write any different from saying jews or black people shouldn't write? It's the same discriminatory and racist beliefs that racists or fascists have, just against another demographic. Obviously I don't think a comment like that is as dangerous as actual fascism, but it's the exact same line of thinking and no one should be defending that, no matter which group is being discriminated against.

[@Thenoobestgirl]

Wtf

[@insiya7810]

the irony of indians being stereotyped as unhygienic when we invented shampoo, wow

[@Purple-ey2ou]

Yes I was about to comment the same thing lol

[@samankhalid1279]

yasssss

[@kimsward4065]

I mean everyone in the book is unhygienic because there are monsters in the showers. That’s nothing to do race and everything to do with the fact the showers are dangerous due to magical beings looking to attack people. All the characters are the same level of dirty unless they have huge amounts of magic stored up

[@insiya7810]

@@kimsward4065 i wasn't talking about the book im just saying the fact that it is a stereotype in general is absurd lol

[@kimsward4065]

@@insiya7810 It’s not one I’ve heard, I’m sorry you’ve dealt with that. It seems intensely dumb

[@sarahc882]

“Everybody makes mistakes” cindy that’s still not a valid excuse for your dry love life and you know it

[@alexac4293]

XD

[@ohword9541]

I love how she has yet to reply to this comment. She's been caught.

[@withcindy]

😔😔😔

[@Karragh]

I have not read this book, but it SOUNDS to me like El's representation is fine? Many MANY poc are not culturally connected to their race, and she's biracial too (which I think is also important representation, biracial people exist), and was only raised by one of her parents. If we're asking white people to include poc for visiblity, and so there are roles for non white people in adaptations, this is a good take. A white person includes a visible minority, but doesn't assume she can write for the lived experience of someone of indian culture, so she has the character disconnected from her dad's side of the family. I don't know, this character sounds fine to me. It really does feel like you can not win as an author online. People get so mad about everything, but its interesting to note like you said how you had that comment from that indian girl who really liked the representation. So you have people up in arms and enraged about stuff that made a poc belonging to the group in question happy.

[@elle.grace.]

I recognize this is a late reply, but if it helps to have that support for your point: El in the book was also not really able to connect with her dad's side of the family. Like it's not even just the author avoiding it in some way, it's literally part of the story that there were obstacles and conflict surrounding who got custody of El and that it resulted in El literally not being able to have that connection. I personally see El working to learn Marathi and Sanskrit as her way of trying to make that connection to her heritage when she doesn't have many other ways to do so.

[@Tuima11]

Definitely, definitely read this book if you get a chance; I loved it with my whole chest and El is AMAZING. It is funny and tragic and action-packed and so, so clever, and it makes some incredibly valuable points about economic privilege (and why aren't we gushing more about THAT?)

[@moustik31]

Yes, I agree with you. I found characters like El relatable in their ignorance of their father's culture. There is a joke among Black people, that mixed kids raised by Black mothers are more woke, than mixed kids raised by White mothers (those kids are more likely to align with White Supremacy). I dont know, what she tried to achieve with that loc paragraph. Black people dont get lice. So, ...

[@Korilian13]

Its not really mentioned in this vid, but the book is explicitedly about the struggle against class and privelige. While El isn't an outsider because of her race (her father's family is actually from a high class from what I recall), I do think it adds an extra layer that El is biracial.

[@eightyyone]

so in conclusion, as an author, you can't win

[@P3C2I1H6N5]

You can. Just write and enjoy the process. Put your work out there and - as good advice to all artists - never read your own press. Create for your own muse and the joy that you find in that act. Nothing else matters.

[@quixotiq]

This.

[@totallyanonymousbish9599]

Cindy: "What's tough about this is that there is no set way to portray a person of color" And with that, you have successfully ended this whole useless debate. Just write characters. Culture is a part of worldbuilding, not personality. I don't even fully identify with my own culture. Many people don't.

[@vanityr2904]

I'm a black woman who was way more offended by the exposition dumps.

[@withcindy]

LOL IKR

[@ellax325]

Those are some Christopher Nolan-level exposition dumps lol

[@robopkins]

I didn't even make it to the dreadlocks bit because the exposition was just painful and I had to DNF 😵

[@thaisbitencourt5980]

I liked the book, but Jesus, so true KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[@ryanjstannard]

LOL, they were the true villain of the story

[@abbym4367]

I just think, race isn’t a personality trait. If someone wrote a white person that’s good at math, it would be because that’s what they want their character to be like and have as one of their traits. But if that character also happened to be east asian, a lot of people might get offended because they think the author is supporting the stereotype that east asian people are good at math. I just think that the way an author writes a POC character shouldn’t make them more or less of the race that they are. Race isn’t a personality trait, and the way an author writes their character is just them writing the character how they want them to be, not trying to offend a certain race for the way they portray their POC characters.

[@ExeErdna]

Race is circumstantial until you are exposed to and LIVE the stereotypes. Like I'm black I've seen so many different types of black people yet a lot of people have like "3" flavors of black which I like to call "Thug" "Hardboiled" and "The Queen". When they're not those three there's "whiteness" yet then they would go like "whiteness doesn't exist" I'm reading posts getting tired of the moving goalposts and running over their own logic.

[@emilyrose3490]

An East Asian character can be good at math, but it shouldn’t be all there is to them, you know what I mean?

[@megatronboy-ir1vn]

i think writers just have to write more poc because having your only asian character be a nerd isnt a good look, but if you have multiple asian characters that arent nerds then the character being good at math wouldnt be like a race thing, just a character thing.

[@birrdy8372]

Hey Welsh girl here, I'll put in my opinion here. This is only based on Cindy's video, I haven't read the book or what others have said about the book. So I'm sorry if I've got the wrong idea about anything. Sorry it's long. It seems like a lot of the criticism is about not properly representing her Indian heritage. But what the character knows about her Indian side mirrors people who I know in real life growing up in Wales. Many people have a Welsh parent and a parent from another country. Even so they acted like everyone else cause we all grew up together. Some of them know the language of their non-Welsh parent because they'll speak it at home with them. Many people don't speak Welsh today is because we were not not allowed to for hundreds of years by our English rulers. It was punished by cutting off our tongues. So I agree that not knowing a language doesn't take away your nationality. Cindy didn't say whether this character knows Welsh, nor did she say whether the character discusses any Welsh folklore or celebrations. Cindy herself refered to this character as white more times than Welsh, so I'm guessing people focused more about that this is a white culture, rather than it being Welsh culture. Honestly that's disappointing. There's not many Welsh characters around, and even in this case it seems like people want to suppress it. Take the shower thing. Cindy said some people didn't like it because they say it's a bad stereotype of Indian people being dirty. But it's also a bad stereotype of Welsh people. But looking at the story context, it's not offensive to me. I feel like the author wrote this book with good intentions, and I have experienced way worse intentionally offensive things towards my culture. That said I just realised I wrote this thinking this character grew up in Wales. But I've never heard of a hippy camp, and camping in Wales weather all year round sounds like a bad time. 'Hippy' does make me think US. So does this take place in the US? Cause if she grew up in the US, she's probably not going to act Welsh or Indian cause she grew up with a US culture. Are people only talking about the Indian portrayal because she was written like a white American, but they don't know anything about Welsh culture so don't realise that this character doesn't properly represent that either? You don't need to answer, I only wrote down my thoughts as I didn't see any other Welsh views in the comments.

[@KMMHealy]

Most people in the US aren’t even aware of the language suppression in Wales (among others) by the English. I’m American with Welsh ancestry, and I had no feckin’ idea until I took a linguistics class in university. We were assigned to write a paper analyzing a language, and I found some books on Welsh in the school library that included historical context. I was NOT prepared! Later I was able to visit a beautiful village in Wales where it was (I think) 70% Welsh speaking. It was the strangest experience to be in the UK (where the US assumes the whole rabbit is English-speaking) and not be able to understand conversations around me or read anything in the stores, except the labels printed on mass-produced items like pain killers or cold medicine. I had been traveling for a bit by then and was used to how people were standoffish to me as an American tourist, yet I was treated kinder in Wales than the English family members I was with (who spoke Welsh). It was really eye opening. And reflects what Cindy said about everyone has blind spots toward the end of the video. :/ And I’d agree the hippie commune is way more American, but I haven’t read the book in question so I’m not sure if that was the author’s term or Cindy’s.

[@IceBlueCrystalShadow]

Part of the issue I noticed, is that in discussions of race and cultural people see everyone with light skin as a universal“White.” When really we have just a much diversity in our history and cultures as every other color in the rainbow. English, Welsh, German, Etc.

[@user-nc3td4cl7h]

This is my issue with writers writing as if all the western-world is the same and just labelling it a white culture rather than the region they're from. I live in Northern England and I've noticed when people write about my region without being from here its basically just as a backdrop and its not written as a cultural region.

[@gota7738]

Hippy communities are a thing here in west wales which was at it's peak during the 70's. However they tend to trend towards english incomers more. Some of course some have settled over the years but there is often tension between the community and local welsh speakers over percieved attitudes to local culture and the language, and of course differing attitudes towards farming and land amongst farmers. Honestly a biracial Indian/Welsh girl raised by a gog (north walian, where there's the highest majority of speakers for those not in the know) in an english hippy commune in the welsh language heartlands who might also which to reconnect with the her father's heritage would be an amazing pov for a book that uses linguistics as the basis for its magic system, however I've not been able to find much thoughts on that. (I've not heard so much about cutting of tounges for speaking welsh. The beating of children for speaking welsh happened, as well as to a greater influence, the barring of the welsh language from court and public office till recently. There may have been a few laws that targeted welsh people within english towns that that punished them by cutting off hands?)

[@blueumi5028]

She was raised by her mom who is not Indian because her father who was Indian die before she was born

[@meenakshivisvanathan9992]

Cindy is the introspective and analytical English teacher who comes to class slightly tipsy and doesn't hesitate to point out an authors B.S that we all needed all along

[@withcindy]

It's what I'm here for

[@rjwalanthi]

Full disclosure: i haven't read this book. But, as fully Indian girl living in America, I actually really like they way El seems to be portrayed. I have my food, my religion, and my clothes, but I can't speak Tamil for sht. The fact that El has managed to stay connected to her roots through language and religion is super commendable. That feeling of "not quite Indian enough" is a reality of third culture kids, so I appreciate that its being acknowledged. I'm fully Indian and I still feel super alienated when around Indians from India - I can't imagine how much more different I'd feel if I was half white too. Anyways, I'm rambling, but I think that saying that El isn't "Indian enough" misses the point. It's not like she has zero connections to her Indian heritage - she has language and religion. Fact of the matter is that when you are influenced by multiple cultures in your youth, some aspects tend to get tossed to the side. Criticizing this character for not displaying her heritage the way *you* want her to has echoes of the "coconut" and "ABCD" (American born confused desi) comments a lot of us got when we were younger. And that sht hurts.

[@rjwalanthi]

Fck that was a lot longer than i expected lmao

[@withcindy]

Very well said!

[@rishitaumasankaran7159]

very valid

[@hellothere2464]

yeahhh can’t speak tamil gang

[@andreaholmes3026]

I know it’s not the same, but your last line about people’s comments really resonated with me. My mom’s side of the family is South American Hispanic and my Dad’s is heavily German. I’ve had Hispanic people tell me I’m not Hispanic enough for the color of my skin and not speaking Spanish regularly which I do with family cause I’m super self-conscious about it. I’ve been told that I’m not pure, that I don’t understand things about the culture cause I’m mixed. These kind of comments hurt so much for people who feel like they don’t belong to either group. Especially growing up in school you stick out.

[@alexarobinson2850]

What I loved about El being biracial is that she’s a full person who just so happens to also be half-Indian. I don’t think we need to be slapped in the face with the identity she’s born with… she’s a fully fleshed out person, and that’s great storytelling and representation. When she speaks of her Indian family and heritage it is from a place of respect (the mana enclave, for example). This side of her family is explored more fully in the next two books. I think it is also great that a white author like Novik didn’t try to take on writing a character from India. I’m sure she could have researched and had great beta readers, but having El be born Welsh put her closer to Novik’s own experience and I think representation that she could write more accurately. I feel like people are complaining to complain.

[@elsam7720]

13:00 As a biracial Chinese-american girl, I think you did a really good job putting into words things I've struggled with for a while. My mom is full Chinese but grew up in the States. My dad is white. We live across the country from my Chinese relatives so I only see them once a year at most. Even though I went to a very racially diverse school district (white people were almost a minority I think) I was still raised "white"/"American" or whatever you'd call it. And there IS a difference being biracial versus being one race. I never really "clicked" with any of the other asian kids at school--most of my close friends were white. There's a certain amount of self doubt that comes with it too. If the whole point of celebrating your culture or finding solidarity with other members of a racial group is bonding over shared experience, there's some stuff I, being half white, just can't relate to. I won't know what it's like to be stared at in the street or called slurs the way my mom was because I look white. But at the same time, I'm *not* white, and to say that I am would be disingenuous to me as a person. It's a really complex issue.

[@hnichole]

Agreed, being biracial is a complex identity that I don't think anyone can fully understand unless you're part of that group. You feel like you don't really fit into either identity, and in my case there was another layer added to it because my POC parent was also an immigrant, while the other parent was white as white can be. It's a complex topic and even though there are people who think biracial protagonists are "easy" diversity points, I always like seeing the representation.

[@horsepuncher95]

@@hnichole Yup, foot in 2 cultures but I'll never truly belong to either.

[@PoemsFromAMusician]

The shower thing is so frustrating to me! She literally _wants_ to shower but can't because it's not safe and she doesn't have a support system. It's a big part of the book.

[@KenzyAli]

What the heck is this about the main character not being Indian enough? - How do people even measure that? Oh you have watched Kuch Kuch Hota hai 17 times? - Indian. Oh you have just watched 3 Idiots once? - *White washed* like wth.

[@cheeto.burrito]

"Oh, you're half Indian? Name three of their bands."

[@rishitaumasankaran7159]

true true like we shouldn't be asked to prove our racial identity

[@janvishikarpuria2492]

KUCH KUCH HOTA HAI DKSKSJALSLSKS-

[@ariagrace8117]

To be fair, I don't think any Indian has watched Kuchh Kuchh Hota Hai that much, even ones who grew up with cable TV. And if they have, damn I worry for their sanity.

[@janvishikarpuria2492]

@@ariagrace8117 Anjali haunts my dreams still... i fear for my life *flicks nose*

[@athenaparker7264]

Yessss!!! This topic gets me so heated!! As a black girl who got bullied for 'not acting black enough' or called an 'oreo' by OTHER BLACK PEOPLE. It really hurts, do you want me to act like a stereotype or not? Pick a side.

[@LicoriceLain]

Someday these folks will (hopefully) learn that it is not the trope that is important, but what the writer does with it. If a trope is presented with no augmentation or further commentary, then, yes, it is reductive and lazy and deserves to be called out. If they use the trope as a launchpad to explore other ideas, then they are telling a story that is unique to them.

[@CherryzB]

Some of these criticisms feel more problematic than the book itself.

[@rachelteresa6024]

"If she isn't speaking the language, is she really Indian?" Me, an Indonesian that speaks Indonesian like a gibbon trying to do quantum physics : 🧍‍♀️

[@rachellarson8851]

Holy crap, your username is my first name and my moms first name! And there both spelled the same as ours! Cool!

[@RiedSiheal]

Also, I still don't know what "Indian" language means. Which one of the 442...? I see you have 710 in Indonesia. Good luck with that...

[@rachelteresa6024]

@@RiedSiheal unch sis 😔

[@rachelteresa6024]

@Squidward yeaaaa i have those problems too, my american accent just gets in the way whenever I speak Indonesian (fun fact, I have never lived at America or any other English-speaking country, I live purely in Indonesia).

[@pollux_the_insufferable.]

same , im bangladeshi and my inner monologue is in english , i struggle to speak my mother tongue , even tho i fucking live in the country since birth ! and i struggle with english too . i just have shit speaking skill even tho i talk too much when im in a convo about smth i like , i cant read bangla aloud properly and it messes with my brain , but my english recitation is great ! im just a disapointment

[@Fiddler4mySavior]

As a biracial female, THANK YOU for bringing up the point "how do you get to decide if someone properly portrays their race?"! Seriously, it makes me so mad when people poke fun at me for not speaking a language or enjoying spicy food. Like I'm "less than"

[@withcindy]

you're valid too

[@monicaerwin3359]

Hi Cindy, I wanted you to know that I quit watching your videos after my mom died from COVID-19. Your videos were something that made me laugh and that made me look forward to the future for more content. After starting therapy and getting on medication, this is the first video I'm watching since she died. I know she'd want me to be happy. I look forward to watching you again. Thank you, friend.

[@withcindy]

i'm so sorry about your mom, you're absolutely right that she would want you to be happy

[@CynicalDuchess]

this whole conversation upsets me. why is it even a question if people should write POC characters into their novel? I'm an Orthodox Jew, does that mean I'm only allowed to write about Orthodox Jews? And if I wanted to include a Latinx character into my novel? Or someone Chinese Canadian, Or someone who grew up in Papua New Guinea, am I not allowed? Why can't I explore diversity and culture in my (future) books? Isn't that what we want? Further diversity and representation? Or are we just resigning ourselves to a few more decades of the segregationist mindset that inherently brews racism in the first place??

[@bangbangbookreviews762]

As a Black person, I don’t think White authors should HAVE TO write people of color if they don’t feel comfortable. Schwab and other popular White authors can be an advocate by spotlighting authors of color. Schwab was doing a series where she was interviewing authors; perhaps interview authors of color or ask to do author visits with authors of color, or write book blurbs for authors of color. There are other ways. Also, they can cast POC in the book adaptation.

[@withcindy]

I agree!

[@sai-bi2rh]

Going a little bit on the tangent of casting a POC in the book adaptation (assuming it's about the movie rights for Addie LaRue that Cindy talked about at the start?) by bringing up Shadow and Bone adaptation that now features POC leads where as in the books, the original trilogy, they were just assumed white. The point of me bringing this up is to see how the POC will work for a Addie LaRue movie, especially with Schwab being a white author, unless the other wonderful ways you've talked about + including voices of people of colour to determine the protag's arc/path are taken. The creative liberties are endless, YET there's still an argument for that about how it's all so performative, as it is sometimes discussed in the Grishaverse fandom, since people still think that Leigh is just making them for the sake of it. I think it'll simply boil down to the satisfaction of the fandom and the viewers of the casts' and the characters' portrayal (coded or explicit) in the show, perhaps. As for Addie LaRue, I haven't read the book so I'm not sure how the PoC integration can take place where the struggles and the joy of being someone and celebrating an identity can be shown in addition to some themes that apply to Addie's life that reflect the people of the world. Idk lol, this is not entirely related to your comment but it prompted me to consider this angle from what else I know and have seen. Also idk if Cindy will read this but if you do, dude, thanks for these videos!

[@bangbangbookreviews762]

@@sai-bi2rh if I’m understanding your comment correctly, you’re asking if by making these characters Black is it going to celebrate their Blackness-culture, etc? In the case of Addie, I wasn’t thinking about changing the main characters’ races in the adaptation; I was thinking more about a couple of minor characters like Sam and Robbie. Bea is already Black in the book. Back to your comment, Sam is an artist and her work could reflect Black culture but sometimes Black people are just okay with seeing a Black person on the screen. Sometimes it doesn’t have to be about their Blackness. Consider Bridgerton. I personally was okay with the backstory of how Black people held royal titles in 19th century England but I know some Black people didn’t think it was explored enough. I’ve seen many period movies and there are never any Black people so for me, just seeing Black people in an English period drama was fantastic. Now, was I a bit bummed that the main characters were both light-skinned? Yes. Did I wish one of them was a darker skinned person with kinkier hair? Yes. But let’s not get into that; I was satisfied by the rep. 😂

[@wellschristopher16]

Exactly! I hate the fact that it's almost like they're overrepresenting and hurting their own work by essentially being bullied into working POC into their works. That's shitty and wrong.

[@itsdivyag]

the race being an "obvious" thing is so on point. I'm constantly told I'm "white-washed" by my relatives because I can't speak the language I struggle to connect with aspects of Nepali culture as that part of my life was never emphasised in my life when I was growing up. but I'm still Nepali boo. I do think cultural elements are important but I think it's highly dependent on the context of the book. And like you said everyone is an individual with individual backgrounds, upbringings and mannerisms. Whilst some experiences are more "universal"/"common" within certain cultures/ethnicities it's also not the experience of everyone in that ethnicity.

[@withcindy]

Love u divya

[@itsdivyag]

@@withcindy keep spitting fax g

[@sahildahal5523]

As long as you love mo mo ur Nepali.

[@itsdivyag]

@@sahildahal5523 I don't know ONE Nepali who doesn't love momo. It is truly the defining factor

[@antifantastisch4467]

@@itsdivyag For one moment I thought you meant "Momo", the children's book by famous german author Michael Ende. That was confusing.

[@lyndonwesthaven6623]

I find this whole thing so frustrating. Deadly Education is one of the best YA books I've read in a long time. The way she intertwines her magic system with systems of class and inherited wealth and power, and how theoretically equal things can be systemically biased, and had characters interacting with that from a variety of perspectives, is amazing. Paired with an amazing world build, really good prose, and a great cast. It seems deeply unfair that none of that weighs against a series of criticisms that are overwhelmingly minor in the story or completely subjective as flaws.

[@val3b33]

I really hate the internet mentality of “you have to write these ethnic people this certain way as to not fall into white boring in order to make ethnic people feel good” I’m Syrian Venezuelan and it’s so hurtful to see people angry at characters being mixed or characters deviating from stereotypical experiences of ethnicity. I also feel it washes down the character building itself and just centers on “is this good representation” when truly, I feel like a character is good when it allows the reader to relate, in one way or another. As a Syrian Venezuelan I don’t feel like a white character shuts a door in my face, it’s simply a different reality than my own and a different experience. If I happen to read a book set in Syria, I will smile at the references, same with Venezuelan representation. However I feel like consistent nitpicking rather than educating, when it comes to holding authors accountable for writing that is ACTUALLY harmful has been lost a bit. It deters the representation they seek to find because what author wants to write and then fall into a Twitter war? Even I, a nonwhite author, would be freaking scared to draw from my own experiences of Syrian culture in venezuela because it might not align with other’s. It’s counterproductive. Instead of viewing each book and character and description of said character’s experiences as something new and fresh, we are seeing it as clear cut, “must be this way” representation. Which I’m my opinion, just works against having poc experiences in books. They will all be different because we’ve lived different experiences and versions of it. Doesn’t make it any less valid. It’s honestly just annoying atp

[@HeyItsShey]

As a mixed race person, I'm really interested in the "biracial protagonist" conversation. I'm half Puerto Rican, but I don't speak Spanish, cook traditional food, or dance. If I was a protagonist written by a white author, how would they "show" an audience my ethnicity? Can we easily define what it means to be a part of a racial or ethnic group without relying on stereotypes? I have so many questions lol In regards to cancelling authors - Rowling has dug her transphobic heels in, so I'm not waiting for her redemption arc. But it seems like Naomi could improve with more anti-bias education, broader life experiences, and sensitivity readers (disclaimer: I haven't read A Deadly Education). As someone who has said transphobic and ableist things before, I've always been grateful for the folks that held me accountable and prompted me to do better. Every situation is different, but I try to offer others the same grace that was offered to me. I do believe people can change, but no one is required to wait around to see if you do.

[@withcindy]

I love how sensible this comment is!

[@Otra_Chica_de_Internet]

I don't think sensitivity readers are a good alternative. I mean, how can you claim to be an expert at being queer or a poc (or both)?? I think it's better to consult with various people who belong to the marginalized group you're trying to portray and hear their different opinions, not hire someone to tell you.

[@MRuby-qb9bd]

@@Otra_Chica_de_Internet Strong agree. And also, this should be part of ongoing research and discussions from various people and sources before there is even anything to read. It shouldn't be something that only comes up on the tag-end of a near-final draft, and too often that's what sensitivity readers end up being.

[@jaeyao7516]

as a black woman, i accept her apology. i cant always expect white authors to be able to write POC completely accurate. yes, that mistake was horrible, and fed into a bad stereotype, BUT she has apologized and i believe her intentions weren't bad. she just wasn't educated.

[@whitedogsblackcats]

As a mixed black woman, I agree

[@plutonium09]

i feel so bad for the author for having to deal with twitter like i dont think shes racist at all and seems like a good person and even made a apology about the dread locks and removed the passage. people are getting way too upset over literally nothing

[@deesucks6244]

They’re either jealous of the author, or they’re just no life racist mfs.

[@ravenevermore7338]

"I read this book because of the controversy around it and I wanted to read it to get the full context." Thank you. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people trash something based solely on what others have said or written about it and never take the time to make their own assessment.

[@belletoro3100]

I’m half irish half puerto rican and both sides of my familes have been “americanized” for decades and have been in america longer than my “white” italian girlfriends family who are immigrants. Sometimes you are just you and don’t have any ties to the country where your great great great grandparents came from.

[@withcindy]

I agree! I don't have any ties to my culture either tbh

[@belletoro3100]

@@withcindy it’s not a bad thing, we create our own culture with our friends and families ;)

[@noriakikakyoin8587]

Ugh I'm in the situation that I'm biracial white/puertorrican, and I grew up in Puerto Rico, my grandfather and father are even genuine jibaros, and yet because I'm white passing people are constantly questioning my cultural identity. I even had the situation recently that my counselor wanted me to join a group for spanish-learning students, as though my entire formal education here doesn't matter.

[@JuniperJadePR]

@@noriakikakyoin8587 Can unfortunately relate to that struggle as a fellow "White Puerto Rican".

[@noriakikakyoin8587]

@@JuniperJadePR You know the worst part though? A lot of the time my mother tries to console me by saying it's just because I carry her surname, despite the fact my brother (who looks stereotypically puertorrican) doesn't get this treatment at all

[@ocinidolegna]

13:20 maaaan. back in elementary school i found out two kids in my class were haitian and i got excited and was like "oh im haitian too!" and then the girl started quizzing me and trying to get me to speak the language. I grew up in america & my family never really taught me anything. They just expected me to naturally pick it up for some reason even tho they didnt always speak it around me. So when she did that and i couldnt really "pass" the test, she said i wasnt /actually/ haitian. i went through middle school feeling i wasnt "black" enough cause i couldnt (and still cant) relate to most of the black folks around me. i was called an oreo and asked why i did certain things "like a white person". i remember in high school i had a (then) friend (white) who was talking smack about the black students at our school and im like "yo???" and then they went "oh, youre not like the other black kids. trust me, you dont wanna be like them" and we all just sat in an awkward silence cause... well what do you even say to that? especially cause it always takes me a hot minute to process things, and at the moment i just knew i didnt like how any of that sounded. there's also instances of people criticizing AAVE for not being "proper" english... sigh. there's so much. i feel bad when my cousin gets told to "stop talking like that" when it's a valid way of talking. and it's not like she doesnt know how to speak or write "proper" english so people around her dont think she's uneducated (which is another gripe i have!! people thinking poc are dumb for not speaking english as fluently as theyd like, and yet the poc are typically multi-lingual while they criticizer isnt. it's an amazing thing to know multiple languages. stop thinking people are uneducated for not speaking english how you want them to 😒)

[@ocinidolegna]

20:30 i cant stand cancel culture unless they did something REALLY bad/ did something bad & never apologized. otherwise, we need an EDUCATION culture where we let people know what they did wrong & now they get to reevaluate, learn, grow, and apologize. We have to give people chances to change. We also have to recognize that people DO change. None of us are innocent, so just because someone's in the spotlight doesnt mean theyre no longer human and no longer deserving of growth. Ive seen some folks starting to lead with an education culture and it makes me happy to see that instead

[@ocinidolegna]

23:43 why did i think you were about to say "we live in a society" 😔

[@withcindy]

Ur valid 🥺♥️

[@EtamirTheDemiDeer]

I'm sorry, but the "quizzing you on hatian" thing made me think of the "Oh , so you're a fan of x? Name every ______" meme and now I'm laughing

[@ocinidolegna]

@@EtamirTheDemiDeer honestly, it is like that, just a bit worse cause it's my blood & culture. i was just a lil baby growing up in america. i knew some stuff, but ig it wasnt enough to keep my certified haitian card smh. but it's fine now. we were just kids so i dont really hold anything against them. now as for my family who's been picking on me about it... that's a different story >.>

[@split776]

The whole concept of having to eliminate parts of yourself in order to simply have a better chance of survival but still having to look over your shoulder all the time because a threat may be lurking behind every corner is especially interesting considering Naomi Novik is half-Jewish. I'm Jewish myself, and I know some of my relatives hide the visible parts of their Jewish identity (don't wear a kippa, shaved their peyos) to minimise the antisemitism they're subjected to but every once in a while they're still harassed and called "dirty Jew-face"

[@Sun5120]

"Being a specific race is not a personality trait." Yes. As an Indian writer I don't want to feel like I have to throw in forced references to food and culture to convince or remind readers that my characters are Indian. They grew up with American culture as I did, and I don't wake up trying to prove I'm Indian at every moment of every day or say "how can I have an Indian day today," we just ARE Indian - to paraphrase something Nikesh Patel said in an interview once. And totally agree - we're not a monolith, personally, these criticisms have made me not want to pick up the book, but then again, Novik's style in "Spinning Silver" didn't resonate for me anyway. And yup, "intention doesn't equal impact," this is why it's important to understand what was offensive to who, apologize, correct it, and move forward. I think having sensitivity readers or readers from these identity groups would help but again, reactions are highly individualized and varied as we've seen.

[@USERVIC21]

I was literally bullied as a kid for not being "Filipino" enough because I didn't speak the language and not repping my country, like y'all I was born in America 😩

[@USERVIC21]

@@miracel3075 I know not every Filipino is like the bullies I encountered, it was such an shock to me because I've always been around my Filipino side, more so than my Hispanic side, and I was never conscious of "not being Filipino enough."

[@starryskies9655]

For the whole “doesn’t shower” thing, sometimes a pear is just a pear. “It doesn’t look good if xyz” yeah, it doesn’t, it doesn’t have to look good. Not every single occurrence has to be targeting a race, ethnicity, sex, just because it could be.

[@shamicacarey1116]

As someone with a black parent and an Indian parent, I really appreciated this video! I was conflicted reading The Scholomancer series for a few reasons, but I still really liked both books. I think the author wrote El well. Which is more than I can say for some white authors who write their side POC characters (looking at you SJM). I remember reading it and getting so excited when I saw that she was half Indian. It seemed like Naomi actually did some research, unlike other authors who just… go with the flow lol. I liked the world building, and I saw that Naomi has promised to be more sensitive for the 3rd book so I’m excited to see how she does that

[@bigboardbattles3712]

"How dare your depiction of minority not conform to my stereotypes about what that minority is like" = All the criticism of this kinda stuff ever.

[@nneoma1583]

I'm black, and I'm literally struggling to write my black characters. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells; For my manga the main girl is dark skinned, with vitiligo, and is aggressive, which is a negative stereotype. But is it an issue if I include other dark skinned girls who aren't aggressive? Cause honestly, in action anime especially, aggressive characters are so common, so I don't think that should go back to her race, cause like you said, race doesn't determine someone's personality. And secondly, for my actual novel, one of the 3 main characters is black, and now I'm like, are people even gonna know he's black 😂 It was mentioned once, and it will be mentioned one or two times again since, racism is sorta a factor in my story, but sometimes I think people are gonna think he's white. Like, I'm black, but if a character exactly like me were to be written in the story, with only ever being referenced to being black once, they would think I was white 😂 At some point, I think people need to realize that not every poc in a book, will be enriched with their own culture, especially if the book is written in America, and that just because the poc representation isn't the way you want it, doesn't mean it's not representation. Also, if people want people to include more poc in books, they have to be willing to accept an author's mistake, especially since most authors are white. As long as what they did truly wasn't intended to offend anyone, and they do right by their mistake, I think we should just let them take it as a learning experience. Cause if we just bash them and "cancel" them, it might drive other authors away from writing poc, which would lead to less representation

[@acidbebop3593]

Dude, it's best to not let videos like these get to you. At the end of the day, no one is subjecting themselves to the grueling, painful process of writing just to support social issues and push agendas. If your heart is in the right place, and you're not portraying any particularly heinous stereotypes about minorities, then I say fuck it. People have misconceptions about cultures all the time. Doesn't mean they need to quit writing, or be so anxious about offending someone that it sucks tbe fun out of writing.

[@nneoma1583]

@@acidbebop3593 Thanks, I needed that.

[@withcindy]

Acid Bebop is right !!

[@ExeErdna]

The act of aggression itself isn't negative it's the actions you do while you're aggressive. You can be aggressively helpful or aggressively toxic. It isn't black and white, I'm a writer as well. I REALLY don't base my characters stuck in typical culture tropes especially if it isn't based in our world and or there are powers since that's a whole different dynamic that can easily change history itself. Why would I impose slavery on any race as a background of their existence if I didn't have to and since I not bound by it I won't write it if I can help it. Since I think there's more to characters than that aspect of our own existence. Yet I agree people need to kinda chill because I'm one of the types that can easily get petty and create something to really piss those types off. Yet I do understand if people get upset at what I do no matter what I'll stop appealing to them and do what makes me happy which is what art should be first and formost. Are YOU happy with it, damn what anybody else thinks. That's what constructive criticism should be bashing people and or bullying them is gonna make them shell-up or give up...

[@Inurwalls02]

how do you know that most authors are white? do you just mean famous authors or just authors in general?

[@ciarah408]

When I was reading a deadly education I really identified and related to El, not just because I’m a prickly bitch but but because I didn’t grow up around my culture. I’m mostly Mexican, my mother is half white and half Mexican but she never learned about Mexican culture because she was raised by my white grandmother. So my mother doesn’t know too much about Mexican culture. I’m in the same boat, obviously I couldn’t learn about my Mexican heritage from my mother and I didn’t grow up by my Mexican-born father. So I have often struggled with not feeling “Mexican enough” because I don’t speak the language or know how to cook the food or celebrate the holidays etc. People have honestly told me that I’m white-washed and I don’t know how to respond to that because...well yeah I suppose because I never learned about my heritage I could be considered white-washed but at the same time I’m obviously not white. My skin is brown. And because my skin is brown people will never actually forget that I’m not really white. So I still have had people be racist towards me. Okay whatever I guess I’m getting off track now. But basically what I’m trying to say is that I could strongly identify with El and I’m sooo sick of people saying that you are not really a poc because you weren’t “raised” in the culture. Okay sorry if this was rambling and confusing. On a lighter note; love you Cindy you’re fucking hilarious.

[@withcindy]

Aww that's valid 🥺

[@Cthultystka]

So you're not white, because your skin is brown but you're also not POC because you're raised in a white culture. Who are you then? Are you even human? (I'm joking, but it sounds like it really sucks. Sorry you have to deal with this)

[@loverboymadita7811]

Dude, I feel you on this so much. My parents americanized my childhood because they were worried about me and my siblings dealing with racism, and as a result none of us speak Spanish or know much about Mexican culture. Even my grandmother complains about us not knowing Spanish, which is ironic considering she said the other day that she regrets not teaching me and my cousins more about our heritage 😓 I'm just starting to learn more about my culture, and I feel so un-Mexican considering the amount of other Mexican American people around me nowadays. It's a struggle, but we can get through it; I believe in us ♡

[@gem9535]

As a white person who lived her influential years in Mexico. Wth 🤣💀 Being racist towards a POC because they are essentially not a certain race enough... That is the dumbest, most gatekeeping shit I have ever heard. Ignore those people, your race doesn't isn't a personality. That's actually lowkey racist, saying that you can't be Mexican (or of Mexican descent) unless you are fluent in a language and make tacos on a daily basis. They've been watching way to many white movies, with that one mexican guy.

[@arowace498]

This is so relatable. My mother is an immigrant from Mexico but she was worried about us being bullied if we were too mexican so she assimilated a lot and never spoke spanish. Worse yet, I don't even look Mexican or white so I don't have any place to go. Things are just complicated when it comes to this stuff.

[@SimmieLovin]

I loved the way that Books are my Social Life addressed this in the video “Should White Authors Write POC???” Definitely supporting and uplifting and reading books written from different perspectives and from people from those countries, places, backgrounds, etc

[@withcindy]

I totally agree!

[@astitvavarma1079]

As an Indian I seriously never understood the idea behind Indians being Unhygeinic, when in most rural places in India, you cant enter the kitchen without showering, cant attend religious ceremonies, go for work, etc. The fact that indians use water instead of toiler paper is proof enough :D. This is carried to the point where in women or period were not even allowed to go near these places for the number of days their periods lasted. that is pretty horrible but you can see that indians are very particular about hygiene.

[@blueumi5028]

Yes but that doesn't mean the book was talking about Indians if you actually read it at least you will know it has nothing to do with race or culture.

[@RuthMadisonAuthor]

Yeah it is very weird. I could be totally off base but I wonder if white people connect darker skin with dirtiness subconsciously???

[@mauthe3054]

​@RuthMadisonAuthor for sure they do. Partly racism+slavery, and partly I think because of immigration. At least to my knowledge of the early U.S. they viewed immigrants as dirty because they were poor and did not fit their religious standards. So basically for a long time poc=slaves=dirty and immigrants= poor= dirty

[@beckylooney]

I feel like it’s impossible for anyone to write outside their race without facing criticism. there the difference between criticism like “ hey! this is inaccurate and is perpetuating bad stereotypes” and letting the author educate themselves further, grow and move on and “this is bad, ur racist” and never letting the author grow. i think it’s incredibly damaging to poc/lgbt to narrow them down to one experience of life. a korean living in korea is going to have a much different experience than someone living in the us. there is no ‘one size fits all” for minorities and people need to stop pretending that there is. if we reduce minority characters to having to ‘fit’ a specific route, it dehumanises them. when i was writing my novel, my character was Korean. it was just the way i pictured them in my head. there was no ill intent or anything, and if someone were to read it and inform me that there was negative stereotypes, i would do better to educate and fix my mistake. by reducing minorities to their culture/ beliefs and/or sexuality you are furthering the stereotype that they are ‘other’ and don’t deserve to have their own story. why can a white character kick ass without being questioned “why are they white?” when a poc character gets ridiculed and the writer is pandering. but hey that’s just a theory.

[@wyntertheicewyvern6226]

I fully agree with your point. That's the problem now a days. Everyone wants to ridicule a writer who gets something wrong. It's easy for someone who isn't a certain ethnicity/gender/sexuality to get some things wrong. But they should be informed of their mistake in a nice way, and not aggressively harassed. And a character's race and ethnicity shouldn't be completely tied into the character. It's extremely dehumanizing to devalue a character who isn't strongly tied into the culture their from. Like Cindy said, it's hurting when people assume a character isn't really a part of said culture just because they don't 'act' like they are. Which is also a double standard. People don't want PoC or LGBTQ+ individuals to be stereotyped, but they also get upset when a PoC or LGBTQ+ character doesn't fall into a set idea of a lifestyle or experience, which are stereotypical. Like, I'm Irish on my mom's side, but my family has been 'Americanized', so I don't 'sound' Irish. I can speak in an Irish accent, but it's not my natural tone. I also don't act like how a lot of people think Irish people act. So would writing a character like me be a bad representation of a person of Irish decent? No. And it's wrong for people to claim it would be.

[@withcindy]

Well said!

[@cloudyheart5148]

Yeah I agree but most authors who get called out literally don't do research or put their racist stereotypes into their writing and at that point it's not a accident it's grown people not children we expect better.

[@beckylooney]

@@cloudyheart5148 Yes defo should call out people! Like Jk Rowling for naming her only chinese character Cho Chang :| wtf. But sometimes its honest mistake. I think its harsh to expect the worse in everyone, especially when many people aren’t meaning any harm and are remorseful for their mistakes. However, we should ALWAYS call people out when theyve done something wrong, even by mistake or unknowingly. Its then up to them to fix it, learn and apologise. They cant do much more than that. However if someone consistently makes these mistakes or an obvious hateful thing, you can tell they don’t care at all which is when i understand ‘cancelling’.

[@SlightlyFizzled]

The whole lockleaches thing would have been SO easy to avoid if she just formed the pun with "locks of hair" instead of "dreadlocks"

[@withcindy]

Right???

[@EllieC130]

You are totally right because I was honestly sitting here like "I wish you could include something like that without it being problematic as the idea in itself is super creepy". I don't think the author was being deliberately shitty, but yeah, easy pothole to avoid.

[@bmiller7419]

And the author could’ve used any type of hairstyle as an example to get the point across. As long as their hair was long, it would’ve worked. If she’s set on specific hairstyles maybe she could’ve talked about something that’s not associated with any specific race. Like she could’ve had an event where the main character mentioned a girl she knew who wore French braids every day until “the incident” then she could go into describing the gruesome details

[@Darrkness]

@@bmiller7419 she did. Its just people who didn't read the book and just "heard" what happens are mostly the loudest voices. It's mentioned that any long hair is dangerous and one isolated incident happened to a student with dreads. There's horrible things happening to all kinds students there. I don't want to belittle someone's feelings but in the context of those of us who read it, I think it's not that outrageous...

[@toothfairy10133]

im sure someone's replied with this already, but instead of dreadlocks, she should have just said "long hair". same pun, same world-building, less emphasis on a particular culture

[@writorwrong8963]

Cindy is one of my favorite people. She’s so blunt while being sympathetic to human flaws at the same time

[@endermanburger]

the part ab criticizing the mc for not being culturally indian enough hurt so bad lol. i’m half indian and half dutch and i was raised here and being mixed and growing up in a white country is absolutely terrifying. too brown for the whites and too white for the browns. ppl saying mc isn’t indian enough because she hadn’t gotten the opportunity to be a part of her roots is like a punch to the gut. in which WORLDDDD is the characters very realistic mixedness a problem??

[@samiam1417]

“The only thing you need to focus on in school is to not die” Sounds a lot like American school systems

[@withcindy]

Yes

[@iwillregretthis5127]

she really could’ve just said that long hair is dangerous 😭 why specify dread locks.. when it sounds like anyone with long, thick hair could be susceptible

[@withcindy]

Right?!

[@lunathedog6489]

Right like she could have included ponytails, braids or even wearing hats like why did she only mention dreadlocks 😂 that’s my problem

[@Shrilaraune]

THIS

[@Cthultystka]

She could even specify curly hair. It seems like it would be especially good at hiding things, without singling out an entire race.

[@Air_Serpent]

It just doesn’t make sense either. Lice and fleas are real life examples that go in anyone’s hair.

[@DJSourCreeps]

"If she doesn't speak the language is she really Indian?" Sounds vaguely fascist...

[@P3C2I1H6N5]

The concept of "cancelling" art is obviously fascist.

[@DJSourCreeps]

@@P3C2I1H6N5 Reminds me of that "Degenerate Art" exhibit in Nazi Berlin. Creepy.

[@theSoundOfAWomanWhoLovesYou]

@@P3C2I1H6N5 authoritarian maybe but fascist is reaching.

[@varrantgreen4259]

@@theSoundOfAWomanWhoLovesYou There's a whole thing in fascism where they use "canceled" art to maintain the idea of what is acceptable art that honors the state. I found a whole mini doc on it once.

[@nm9688]

@@varrantgreen4259 fascism is authoritarian but it had a lot of other elements too. For example, Stalin was an authoritarian, but not a fascist.

[@peanutgallery2417]

the whole shower thing sounds so similar to the “struggle” male authors “faced” when learning to write strong female character. POC characters do not have to be perfect to be valid or strong or just a good character. POC characters need real flaws and have real, plot-relevant struggles, because those would be the struggles of a real POC person in the same situation. the “Indians are uncleanly” stereotype didn’t even occur to me before watching this video, and now I just feel like people are looking so far into things that it’s become an Uno-reverse racism thing. having El shower to avoid this stereotype would mean bending the rules of your world and making it less believable, or bending the rules and making the POC character be more perfect than the others, which hey, isn’t great either.

[@sarahmetcalfe50]

or involve an action scene where one or more students (likely minors) fighting monsters in the shower. It would still be pretty risky both because it's a dangerous environments and I'm not sure if you can fight the monsters (I haven't read the book). On the author's side though now you'll probably get flack for sexualizing minors (which would likely be worse) or something.

[@janvishikarpuria2492]

I'm indian and i don't really think that the "not-showering" world building is much of a problem. I think it was just what it is, a world building detail and has nothing to do with being indian. But yeah, that's my opinion. I think she was a well-written character and have no problem with this part specifically.

[@withcindy]

Yeah I've seen mixed reactions in this!

[@raniidaki3543]

Same, dont think its much of a problem either. Its more of world building, and people on Twitter like to nit pick a lot of things for the sake of doing it.

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

@@raniidaki3543 What do you mean "Nit pick"? Are you having a go at Indians, picking nits out of their hair because they don't shower? Shame on you!

[@raniidaki3543]

@@Mecharnie_Dobbs hahaha I am Indian too💖

[@janvishikarpuria2492]

@@raniidaki3543 yeah i agree. the dreadlocks thing was totally out of line and definitely bad but i don't think the showering this was an issue as EVERYONE was doing it. Everyone is the school, she was not an exception just because she was an indian. and as cindy said, it can also be traced to, that she has a hippie mom. I do not think the author was stereotyping in this scenario. Also, i didn't know that it was a stereotype that we Indians do not shower because most of the households encourage showering every morning. And my mom yells at me if i do not-

[@bfg641]

mm yes, I remeber learning about the great American philosopher Hannah Montana, who is known for her metaphoric "wrecking ball" and her philosophy on the dynamic of personalities.

[@alexac4293]

I remember her tale about the climb and how it was a metaphor for your efforts being rewarded

[@withcindy]

She truly has the range

[@CarameltPud]

Everybody has different experiences, even from the same race. I'm a Malaysian and a Malay but I don't particularly like Nasi Lemak. When I go out to eat, I prefer Western dishes over local cuisines. I do eat rice but I like noodles more. I speak Malay but I speak English better. Am I considered less "authentic" of a Malaysian or a Malay because of these things? What is considered a stereotype and what is not? Saying something like "Oh, but this isn't how we, [insert race], act", I feel like undermines other members of the same race and is forcing them to fit a mold. It stresses me out when people find it odd at how "unnatural" my Malay is and yet I speak English fluently. Why is it strange? Maybe I just find English an easier language/subject to learn compared to my mother tongue? Maybe when I was little, my television channels only features English cartoons because my family couldn't afford to subscribe to channels other than the standard four channels that we are connected with? Why do people have to connect every single thing to that person's race? Yes, one's race and culture have impacts on a person but why can't we also give similar focus on the experiences that this character/person have and how that has mold them to the person they are today? This kind of thing frustrates me.

[@DennisQLy-qx2em]

Same! I'm Vietnamese, but I don't have close ties to the Vietnamese culture. HOWEVER, that does not make me any less Vietnamese. My personality is not defined by my ethnicity.

[@blackheartbooks]

The lines are very blurred, people will get mad if a story is lacking diversity but then tell white authors not to write POC

[@zakai-kaz]

Write aliens I guess🤷‍♀️

[@sophiaellis4974]

This issue with being like “this characater wasn’t poc enough” is insulting because plenty of people (myself included) have been raised in america with a white parent and it’s like “you aren’t that culture enough to be considered a poc” and I hate when white readers do this shit

[@PokeMultiverse]

it really is a "road to hell paved with good intentions" kind of situation

[@rubyspot..]

This video actually summarizes all of my fears as a writer. I've been investigating different cultures througout history for my novels for twelve years now, and i know that is hard to represent everyone's experience; and, while that is not my intention, i also think that so many things could go wrong or be misinterpreted bc some people just wanna be mad...now im scared again! Jesus

[@ivie.3839]

I’ve never read the book, but as a biracial girl I love how you approached the “biracial Indian girl” section. Thank you Cindy.

[@mariosblago94]

I think the whole Dreadlock thing would have had no issues if the author had said "Having any sort of long hair... is an issue, lock leeches, whatever..." She gets to keep the world building detail, it's automatically not tied to race, and it adds consistency.

[@withcindy]

exactly! naming dreadlocks specifically was totally unnecessary

[@madioof3474]

I was looking for a comment like this! Any issues could have been dealt with by changing ‘dreadlocks’ to ‘long hair’. Lock leeches are a super interesting detail and they really help drive home the point that anything could kill you in this world. It wouldn’t just be people who wear dreadlocks that would have an issue with lock leeches, it would be anybody with long hair so I don’t see why it wasn’t written that way.

[@orimengu]

I also think something like adding more examples of what hairstyles are problematic in that world? Like long curly hair, straight but thick hair, etc...

[@marcushead9985]

@@orimengu She kinda-sorta did, but it was more of a character point, well apart from and after the bit with the lockleeches. Another character keeps her hair long and thick and perfectly coiffed, partly with magic, as a boast--i.e., "I have the power to burn to do this without risking my safety, don't mess with me." Which could be seen as reinforcing the original point, or undermining it. It underlines the danger of having long hair in the Scholomance, but it also says "this person has long hair *but not dreadlocks* and can get away with it as long as she devotes some of her magic to doing it", so the lockleech thing still stands out.

[@srrv7396]

So, she explains that everyone cuts their hair, or almost everyone? And then describes lock leeches in particular? I don't see a problem with that. It seems like it was clear that all long hair is dangerous in this world where people die every single day. Maybe there could have been more discussion about the specific dangers of long hair. Like if people who don't have locs don't have to worry about lock leeches, what are they actually worried about? Or is it that lock leeches are easier to find in hair that's not worn in locs and therefore less dangerous to people who don't have locs? That makes sense to me. If you've got about two weeks to find this thing before you die, it makes sense that it might be easier to find in loose hair than in clumps of hair. Especially as it seems to be a stealthy creature anyway.

[@neverland-3269]

Personally, I feel like people mix up race and culture far too much. Race, of course, affects your personality and your life so much, especially if you're part of a race that's very discriminated in society. But how you're shaped and what your life and personality looks like is usually more associated with culture. My mom is from Sweden and I've lived there my entire life, but my dad is an immigrant from Iran. I am half Swedish, half Iranian, yet I don't consider myself to be part of Iranian culture at all. Besides having very dark hair and some other more middle eastern features, there is nothing that ties me to that culture. I haven't been shaped by being half Iranian at all. Imagine if I wrote a book about myself and everyone kept telling me I wrote my character wrong? It makes no sense whatsoever, because I personally haven't been shaped by race, I've been shaped by culture, and I grew up in a Swedish culture that is practically the opposite of an Iranian one.

[@withcindy]

Good point!

[@nataliaalonzo580]

This is a really important distinction that more people need to be thinking about

[@danivaav]

I feel that sometimes with non-white characters people expect it to be way too obvious. It's not enough for the author to say where they're from and sprinkle some realistic traits they might have. As a Peruvian I would have to be wearing a chullo 24/7 talking about how tasty Peruvian ceviche is or I would be "not latina enough". Authors are not only trying to create labels, but people. And people are not stereotypes. Each person is different and each person is valid. Representation is needed, always. Yet I feel authors are scared of expressing themselves freely, and as a writer myself I can understand that. My idea can be totally different from what they actually get from what I'm saying. Maybe we should respect cultures and stop ignoring them but also start watching LGBT+ and BIPOC as human beings. Being white and growing up white with a white mom doesn't make the main character less Indian. And that's a huge problem with white-washing, people tend to invalidate others for being "impostors" because of things they are not able to control.

[@AtPxZ37]

Cancel culture is a joke. Not funny “haha” joke. But i do think it is kinda cute watching people who are perfectly “capable” of writing their own stories, instead use their time to nip at other’s ankles. I am a brown boy myself and couldn’t give any less of a f**k about what white writers choose to write. If the story is good: cool. If it is bad: oh well.