Women Are Not Warriors - Sten, Dragon Age Origins

[@giggajames1903]

Sten was special because it actually felt like you were conversing with someone from a different culture and mindset.

[@UtubeH8tr]

Yeah and people these days think challenging differences means to fight them until they submit, rather than discuss rationally and intellectually. Almost like proper discussions and different upbringing are foreign concept to them.

[@x01021]

Imagine Sten using the words “intersectionality” and “genderqueer” 😂

[@Scionrus]

@@x01021 "I don't know what that means, speak a common tongue"

[@Red_Acolyte_Hashut]

​@@x01021такого никогда не будет, потому что Кунари выше такой херни

[@Navhkrin]

TBH Sten is straight up splitting facts. Women can't be fighter's period. They have slower reflexes, weaker bones and muscles. This is why thorough the human history they never fought at frontlines and when they did it was out of extreme necessity. There ofc some super-rare exceptions to this but such is the case when genetic lottery is in play

[@sainsburyshopper]

Having companions with conflicting beliefs, and having the ability to challenge and disagree with those beliefs, is to me one of the biggest draws of rpg companions.

[@CidGuerreiro1234]

Indeed, any RPG written by adults will have that. Pathfinder lets you have actually evil party members to tag along with. But Veilguard wasn't made by adults.

[@TheGingiGamer]

@@CidGuerreiro1234 Pathfinder? Are you talking about Mass Effect Andromeda?

[@chrisfisher9085]

@@TheGingiGamer Pathfinder Kingmaker and Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous. Both amazing games if you are alright with reading because there is only very limited voice acting. They are cRPGs made by owlcat games.

[@TheGingiGamer]

@@chrisfisher9085 I'll give them a try. Thanks

[@Askarcher]

A woman wrote the qunari culture

[@Vanderyn]

One good thing about Veilguard is it made people replay and rewatch the good Dragon age games.

[@nicbahtin4774]

The only good thing but I don't know if it worth getting all the "look how they massacred my boy" vibes

[@Kat1kafka]

You know,one good thing about veilguard is how it brings people together

[@Rawen1982]

@@nicbahtin4774 Ppl are pissed about this one, that can be a good thing in the long run if it helps weed out the kind of devs that make crap like Veilguard

[@nicbahtin4774]

@@Rawen1982 i doubt this. these "devs" are funded by BlackRock the Canadian and EU governments it doesn't matter how much money they lose. the only way to fin this is forming new grass roots development studios and crowed fund them our self to give them the capital they need to make real games without catering to the woke Mafia. then gate keep them HARD

[@zeehero7280]

The only good thing.

[@MetaMetallic]

This aged so well

[@elathiaskade7311]

Sten is a fine wine that a delicate palate cannot appreciate

[@cacherow]

Dragon aged

[@TheThe-1326]

Algorithm is so based

[@theseven5359]

​@@TheThe-1326I know right 😂

[@zeehero7280]

Nostalgia for a time when people understood fiction and wrote interesting worlds. A little racism and misogony can make a story more interesting.

[@Rebelllion]

What do we have here? Adult dialogues written by an adult scriptwriter who understood that the game would be played by adults? How is that possible?)) P.S. How I love it when a character's speech is close to real, without all these theatrical monologues for 1-2 minutes with gestures and other things, a simple dialogue of a simples and live characters

[@maskednil]

Don't forget. Many of us played these games when we were still children or young teens too. We weren't adults, but maturity and serious spoke to us more than immaturity and childishness. It's like George Lucas who forgets that children don't want to be the Ewoks or Jar Jar. They want to be Luke, Han, Leia, Obi-Wan, Qui Gon, Anakin, Darth Vader.

[@schnek8927]

I mean this is still really childish, it's just not as horrifically bad as modern games. Where are the dialogue options to agree? To say he's right, but you're doing it out of necessity? ANYTHING that isn't just variations of "lol no"...?

[@JustxStupid]

@@schnek8927 How do you plan to agree with him, while he is blatantly stating that your female character cannot exist? "Yes, I agree, I don't exist!" ? This whole monologue is him basically in a cognitive dissonance for the first half of it. Then he starts coping and explaining how things actually should be the Qun and his own societal views. I'd argue that agreeing with him would actually be the childish response "ya lulz, for real bruv, ppl without penises can't wield swords", while standing there as a female character in full battle gear.

[@55rz55]

Challenging your companions beliefs and having an actual conversation?? The Veilguard could never, even in it's wildest dreams

[@shelby-r1e]

reality already proven than sten is right that the tape worms arent warriors. there isnt a single one of those tape worm in combat.

[@chriskoloski32]

It is kind of a huge shame that they retconned the qun into having trans people, the aqun-athlok, so they kinda ruined stens sentence "why would women wish to be men

[@cipherstormwolf14]

@@chriskoloski32 That was done on purpose. They hate reality and want to control it.

[@kronksstronkstonks6360]

@@chriskoloski32 If you regard that sentence as Sten's personal opinion instead of being a contradiction of the Qun's later stance on trans folk then the Aqun-Athlok's existence slots perfectly into the conversation despite being an element added almost a decade later. Because if gender-roles are enforced so heavily, Sten wondering if the Hero of Ferelden was actually an Aqun-Athlok identifying as a male in order to fight, and so trying to ask about it without using his people's terminology (he often speaks briefly because he knows they wouldnt understand him or his culture so this tracks) fits this conversation perfectly. "Women don't fight so you must be a man", he basically states to the obviously female HoF, because an Aqun-Athlok is less baffling to him than an actual woman fighting, as per the Qun. Was it intentionally that retroactive? probably not, lets be real, but the fact that the cultures and peoples were written so well to allow almost seamless later additions without invalidating prior elements is an incredible feat.

[@phantombigboss8429]

@@kronksstronkstonks6360 Dragon age origins left a lot to be up to interpretation. imo.

[@killer3000ad]

Aged like fine wine. Wish the people who made this were still around at Bioware.

[@jaffarebellion292]

They all got replaced by Sims 4 devs. Explains a lot, don't it?

[@nachomanrandy]

the people who made were pro lgbtq, my duderino. Stop coping.

[@raykael]

@@nachomanrandy I don't get why all of a sudden to be pro lgbtq you have to endorse crappy storywriting and horrible characters

[@nachomanrandy]

@raykael is not sudden, Alien was gay as fuck, but since it was good you didnt notice. Mad max fury road was very feminist and you wimp Dick didnt notice.

[@mercerholt8299]

​@@raykaelBecause it's not about rights any more it's about pushing a self destructive hedonistic wex cult

[@MrTarakanisher]

The Dragon Age we've lost...

[@smugdarkly]

Won't stop hurting.

[@Askarcher]

_“Can they? We’ll see…”_

[@Askarcher]

Stens character was written by a woman you know

[@Andy-su5wg]

@@Askarcher And? Competence is not a gender thing, just like bias and stupidity.

[@clayzingo1653]

​@Andy-su5wg seemed more like just stating a fun fact, and that he is well written by an unbiased person.

[@KisekiFan]

Reason for this is that under the Qun everyone is given their roles instead of having the freedom to choose for themselves and if am not mistaken the Quanari never had women in fighting roles or position hence why Sten seeing women fighting was a completely foreign concept for him. Normal people can see the depth of the writing but the twitter harpies would start screeching and call Sten sexist because everything is always about them and they cannot seem to differentiate fiction from reality.

[@franciscoramadhan9156]

Indeed, this whole dialogue is a try to break from that shell, I'm still surprised may will missed the point.

[@Indigious]

It goes on the rule of well the story never directly says their couldn't be trans quanria

[@BlueFire015]

ive seen ppl saying what iron bull with regards to krem in inquisition is not a retcon of qunari lore in origins and it fits just fine with what sten is saying here.. they didnt like me saying it was a retcon and i still hold on to they retconned it cause the only argument for it not being a retcon from what i can see is krem feels like a man so she is one or she identifies as trans or man whatever the problem is just even as iron bull is undercover since he is qunari he has to abide by the qun as well as he can while still maintaining his cover and would therefore hire ppl that doesnt break the qun per se atleast not in my opinion and krem does break the qun technically. but hey ppl here seem less bioware shills and if im wrong give me a good argument instead of calling me names and whatever else

[@RedFloyd469]

@@BlueFire015 A simpler explanation for it, is that Iron Bull is not a typical Qunari warrior. As is very obvious from every interaction we have with him. He even admits that he needed what is essentially a repeat brainwashing to get him back on the "right" path of the Qun. He was one step away from deserting. The iron bull's main mission meant constant interaction with and throughout the non-qunari world, seeing other cultures, other people, etc... This sets him very much apart from what Sten is and how he behaves. One of his great mental dillemas was seeing a woman who was recently conquered by the qunari try and backstab him, even though under the qun, her life was apparantly better (his words). She did not suffer from poverty and a lack of security in her life. And yet she saw the qunari as enemies for invading her homeland. (maybe it was a man, it's been a while.) What iron bull probably forgets is that conquered people in general lost family members and friends, lost a portion of their identity, have to change their language and have to witness people from another majority species tell you how to live your life. To him, such treacherous behavior was irrational, and yet it was happening. He needed closure. Finding closure and meaning is the ENTIRETY of the iron bull's character arc, even if the fanbase conveniently ignores it for whatever political clown-faction they support. Sten is a purely brainwashed soldier. That's what a "sten" is, after all. Just a trooper, following orders blindly. His life is his profession and vice-versa. When his sword was taken away as a pre-caution, he saw it as theft of his very soul. He slew innocent people in a rage over something that in the perspective of most normal people would be trivial and easily replaceable. To Sten, it was a threat to his very existence. Iron Bull, in turn, whether he is acting as a spy or not (and frankly, he's rather open about BEING a spy), is far more sensitive, thinks about other people's perspective far more and generally doesn't take the qun's strict codes all that seriously. He admits that he prefers making love to thedan women and men rather than going through the typical ritualistic prostitution of qunari intercourse. In short, he's not a devout zealout and double-thinker like Sten is. He's far, far more individualistic. The dlc's outcome is very much dependent on whether or not you saved iron bull's men in that one mission, as his entire identity is no longer primarily defined by the qun, but by the people he saw as comrades in arms. So taking this into account, doesn't it make PERFECT sense how iron bull essentially just uses the qun's apparant strict beliefs regarding masculinity and femininity in a way that in fact makes sense to him? Regardless of whether you, the player, personally believes krem is trans and whether that is a valid existence to have (a f*cked up mental exercise for the most degenarate of political zealots to entertain their own emotional outbursts with, rather than simply accepting that sometimes, yes, trans people do in fact exist.), it's plain to see that for The iron bull, it's not a matter neccesarily of how other thedans see Krem. Thedan opinions are irrelevant to any member of the Qun. What matters, is that krem is a soldier, proven by their actions. They behave like a man typically would. Dress like a man typically would, even shave their hair like a male soldier would. Again; even Sten grew in his opinions, regardless of just how brainwashed he was. He too accepts a female warden at the end of the game. That's part of his character arc: learning to think outside of the orthodox propaganda. So to the iron bull, why would he not only disrespect krem's own opinion of their own bodily feelings, but also disrespect the qun, by stating, plainly, that regardless of behavior, Krem is a woman. It's like sten says: a woman doesn't fight. It's not that a woman SHOULDN'T fight. He's not making a MORAL statement, he's making a matter-of-fact statement. It is not part of a woman's nature to fight, according to his interpretation of the qun. Well, Krem fights. Therefore, according tot he qun, Krem is male. One question I have for you and perhaps some others in the fanbase is the following: how difficult is it for you to imagine that qunari are, in fact, not all copies of one another. That they are in fact all individuals that are fortunate or unfortunate enough to grow up and die within a totalitarian religious dictatorship? Sten had his interpretation, one that likely matched the orthodoxy which he was taught, and was an unashamed zealout, and yet he grew in his doubts by the end of the game. Not of the rightness of the qun or of his cause, but of the orthodoxy and it's interpretation. Doubly so, then, for a character like Iron Bull, who has grown disillusioned with the qun's seemingly unneccesary strictness and censorship of all things that make a person free. A good thought-experiment, and perhaps the whole idea behind the developers' creation of the qun as a faction is the following: have you ever considered, that ideologies, which all tend to veer towards totalitarianism the more ideological they are, are in fact often self-contradictory? It is what happens with ideologies eventually, because they revolve, mostly around a single idea or a single cliché or a single statement. The logic surrounding it can change and morph, as it so often did for the fascists and the soviet union's orthodoxy. As it quite blatantly does in "1984" and "Animal Farm". The logic changes to fit the political needs of the regime. Sten is faced with the REALITY of a physical woman being a fighter. He tells himself he is seeing the embodiment of a contradiction. Either sten makes the intellectually honest jump to conclude that what he was taught was likely wrong, OR he doubles down and says that the qun is right, but reality itself is somehow "wrong". In this clip, he chose the latter. That's how ideologies brainwash people. That's double-think. It is the blatant acceptance of a sheer contradiction. The iron bull proves it by showcasing how this pure contradiction can be turned on it's head. One can arrive at the same core idea of "fixed" masculinity and femininity, but by applying it differently and through a different lense. How else do you think entire religions get to have 2000 different sub-sects and have whole ass religious wars that almost genocided the whole european continent for what are essentially absolutely petty interpretation-differences? The more ideological the ideology (and make no mistake, christianity IS an ideology), the more you can play with the logic surrounding the central ideas, and the more you can enter into contradictions and paradoxes. With all the resulting horrible, but often intriguing and throught-provoking consequences to boot. I won't speak for or against veilguard in this instance, as I haven't played it, and there are too many political grifters on all ends of the crappy and very specifically gen-z-american coded political spectrum of blatant idiots and bigots for me to trust ANY review that comes out that focuses on these things as if they make or break a game. All I wanted to say is that the iron bull is all the more interesting for interpreting the qun in his own unique way, rather than his ideas somehow being a "retconn". Or perhaps they ARE a retconn, but then we have to ask ourselves simply: are retconns always as villainous as we pretend they are? Or do they happen all the time, because a retconn isn't a "lore contradiction", it's simply a new interpretation of existing lore to fit a new plot/lore point. The bad retconns are the ones that plainly contradict existing lore but pretend not to. (Such as, for instance, the many retconns regarding ghoul physiology in Fallout, comitted by bethesda's hack writers.) or they are made with cynical intent, simply throwing away existing lore alltogether. I don't think iron bull's characterization did ANY of that. I think he's just a character, and it's up to the player to decide whether his ideas are "correct" as far as orthodox qunari religious dogma goes.

[@zeehero7280]

Sten isn't sexist in the same way we think of it, he's just set in his preconceptions based on how his culture works. it seems they respect women but to them women are never warriors so it confuses them.

[@AliothAncalagon]

I loved how the characters back then had actually diverse perspectives on life.

[@panwu6602]

Today diversity is when everything is the same and everyone is the same.

[@zeriel9148]

Yeah, just like people. This is from the Before Times, before they started censoring everything, including themselves.

[@cipherstormwolf14]

@@panwu6602 Repeat after me: Dialectic - the marrying of opposites to one another.

[@panwu6602]

@@cipherstormwolf14 There's no dialectic possible if one side believes there's no objective truth or reality because literally everything is some kind of social construct lol. Only truth you could arrive at with dialectic in that situation is that your "dialectee" is completely r******d.

[@uriah4491]

@@panwu6602 Today's diversity is when everyone looks different but believes the same, thinks the same, acts the same.

[@Nihlxxstic]

I don’t normally judge games so harshly, but man so far my playthrough of Veilguard makes it seem as though these are two separate franchises. Quite literally unable to be seen in any other light - if not only for the fact they sometimes use words that link the dragon age lore. Several hours in and I don’t surmise my opinions changing. As someone who has beaten DA:O at least 10 times, DA2 a few times, and DA:I once. Pack it in boys, they have not had any “return to form”

[@elathiaskade7311]

One look at Morgianna’s chest shows quite the deviation from her proper form in Fail-gard

[@chillax319]

I've played for some time in a free version of the game....I didn't even made it to gather all the teammates. Gameplay gets dull fast and the writing, the only thing that could've save this game, is simply awful beyond all reason.

[@dudeimtellingthetruth]

Series begin to suck right after origins bruh

[@KisekiFan]

I have finished the game and I will say that Veilguard is the only DA game that I will ever play more than once, it's just that horrible, reason I even played it was for the main story which funny enough was just the prologue and ending, everything else in between felt like filler. Combat was boring, it felt slow, basic and simple for an action game, writing was just downright horrible and combine that with the awful face animation and mouth movement it was hard to look at too, characters were just so uninteresting and I did not feel like I made any mistake when any of them died unlike in ME2 when someone died I restarted the whole game. Also the virtue signaling with Tassh, it's so horribly written and unnatural that I just hate it and they shove it down our throats each and every moment.

[@lto8401]

@@elathiaskade7311 One look at how you can't even get her name right shows quite how you never fucking played any Dragon Age.

[@Syruzak]

Damn the Qunari had some cool lore to get into and dissect, but no, Bioware just made them completely equal out of nowhere and suddenly trans for no reason...

[@scarocci7333]

Huh ? The Qunari are still like that

[@CptManboobs]

Its because they gave them horns, they evoke Demonic imagery and the progressive transgenders at bioware see demons and go "Wow xir just like us" (us is actually singular, this individual has multiple "headmates")

[@afilthyweeb8684]

Well they were always militant fundamentalists that took inspiration from Islam but bioware dialed that back in inquisition and then just completely ignored them in veilguard. They've been making an active effort to retcon and purge the older games

[@theobell2002]

The Qunari are still like this, regard. Why was this hearted?

[@scarocci7333]

@@afilthyweeb8684 They didn't ignored that in Veilguard at all, what the fuck are you talking about ? Don't try to talk about a game you obviously didn't play, you only sound like a fool lol

[@HeroicCid]

What was so nice about the Qun in DA:O and DA2 was that it felt like an actual foreign culture with people that really believed in it. There were things to like and dislike in it, but it was consistent and had internal logic. In DA:I and DA:V it feels like it was just a plot device, doing whatever was needed and having exceptions and loopholes wherever it was narratively convenient.

[@attilamarics3374]

They just made the Dragon Age world inconsistent and incoherent. Todays companies think reading lore of these fantasy worlds mean I read a book get the information, and when the next day they change everything, Ill be fine with it.

[@Xenolithial]

@@HeroicCid Honestly the one positive thing about veilguard is people are starting to pay attention to what a slap in the face Iron Bull was to the Qunari culture, and the way Inquisition began unravelling the worldbuilding, and I'm all here for it. For all its flaws DA:2 did carry on the spirit of the Qunari and made them intimidating and distinct. Saarebas/Ketojan also helped highlight just how unforgiving a culture it is, and carried on Sten's legacy of preferring to die in honor of the Qun than live dishonorably outside of it Even what little Fenris described of the Fog Warriors made sense and felt like it would be a natural response to that culture And in the span of two games we went from that to Taash throwing a hissy fit every two minutes because her mom is trying too hard to understand her, while Taash herself refuses to call a companion by his given name because, well, she just really doesn't like things he's interested in

[@Bruh-sn1fe]

we’ve fallen so far

[@theobell2002]

"The west has fallen." 🤓

[@covek4048]

They've fallen man. You and i didn't make the game. It's them that betrayed everything they stand for. The one good thing about modern times is that you can see exactly who is a sellout shill and how much they're selling out.

[@heetheet75]

@@theobell2002 yes.

[@crimsonpotemkin]

what's this we shit? I'm not bioware, I just used to buy their games. So I'm not accepting their failure as my own.

[@kaydens6964]

We are back!

[@arkus2919]

I genuinely would not be surprised if this conversation gets completely cut if this game got remastered today.

[@thephantomoftheparadise5666]

I bet you they would too. Seems like any time a game gets remastered it gets some form of censorship.

[@antonakesson]

I don't think so because trying to do that with that old engine would probably collapse the entire game code XD They would make an attempt, sure, but this game engine is like desiccated mummy. Touch it to hard and you break it

[@wig.snatcher]

they would have to scrap half of the game

[@MrJonezy541]

They've said that literally can't remaster Origins because there nobody left at Bioware who worked on the engine, and the new "talent" they have isn't skilled enough to learn it.

[@antonakesson]

@@MrJonezy541 That is not completely true. They have said it would be hard to remaster it as there are like 20 people tops in the studio left that has even touched that engine. Personally I feel a full blown remake is in order for DAO and DA2. DA2 is a prime candidate too. That game actually warrants a remake for all the things they can do over and do better.

[@16Vagabond]

they coulda gone somewhere interesting with Taash having this conversation in mind instead we get...modern terminology and HR talk

[@CplYakob]

What's especially interesting about this is that he's speaking out of a worldview that is extremely rigid and ordered, not personal malice. Would have been very easy, and a lot more boring, if Sten and the Qunari were just sexists who think women are too weak and puny to succeed, but they have a religion that prizes conformity and collective action above all else, which contrasts nicely with the more individualist societies everywhere else in Thedas.

[@MisterCynic18]

Well that is what he thinks, it's just so obvious to him he doesn't see the point in explaining it. It'd be like explaining the properties of water to someone in order to justify why you can't make clothes out of it. The reason is so blindingly clear you'd have to be an idiot to not understand, and a fool to believe it actually happened. He has no need for malice because no one and nothing has ever challenged his understanding.

[@x01021]

Exactly. He was not hateful. Just confused. To him, a life of danger on the battlefield is not exciting, it is his duty as a man. So he can’t understand why a woman would WANT that life. Compare that level of lore building to “here are you vegetables mom, btw I’m non binary”

[@gannielukks1811]

​@@MisterCynic18and there comes a female warrior that is clearly very skilled, and in his stricy worldview, she is actually a man, or is not a warrior at all.

[@MakeYouFeelBetterNow]

It's realistic. Women are not good at fighting, too emotional. Ask any soldier in the field.

[@NarhiFaunlha]

@@MakeYouFeelBetterNow yikes

[@thewestisthebest8311]

I’m here after Veilguard. The Irony. Wonder if any developers on Veilguard played origins.

[@randomguy36j98]

questionable 😢

[@Buzani27]

I don't think they did. Just Inquisition maybe.

[@Fgway]

​@@Buzani27 agree

[@Pabor]

Some of them couldn't recognize Zevran. No, they didn't play.

[@Enclavefakesoldier]

Not likely. They probably couldn't get past the opening.

[@LorePlayingGames]

Qunari today: Uhhhh Im non binary duhhhhh

[@westenev]

What is this Non Binary? Speak the common tounge.

[@normalusername5223]

The only thing missing from that scene was Tash secretly filming her mother to get clout on tiktok

[@TheVincenzoGaming]

@@normalusername5223 Missing? How do you think we saw it in the first place lol.

[@scarocci7333]

Taash being split between two cultures, including one telling her she is a man because she is a warrior, is a big reason of her troubles

[@raykael]

@@scarocci7333 Taash being written by a moron is a big reason for her troubles

[@nagihangot6133]

"Can they? We'll see." * Starts attacking the Grey Warden *

[@MM-fo2hp]

and now we have Taash ... this was such a great game.

[@Sunshinus]

i guess can't be a warrior and a women at the same time after all, huh

[@Just_a-guy]

Taash isnt of qun so bad example. Better would be Iron bull being okey with Krem.

[@Artemidora507]

Taash is nonbinary, not woman ;}

[@RalphCifaretto-iy1hk]

Taash is an exceptionally annoying woman​@@Artemidora507

[@jshadowhunter]

@@Artemidora507 "I don't know that word, speak in common tongue."

[@thelaw6267]

The Virgin Iron Bull vs The Chad Sten.

[@shadowborn1456]

Yeah man I hate iron gull

[@thelast749]

You say that but in the end Sten came to respect female warriors like the gray warden. I do like how he still stick through his beliefs and you can be respectful about it.

[@jonaszpawlacz756]

The Arishok was the chaddest of them all. Hell, he's the best Dragon Age antagonist to date

[@GrenzRell]

​@@jonaszpawlacz756plus them horns bro. Damn what a rack he got.

[@Muircetach]

Iron Bull might as well be the Arishok compared to the pussies in Veilguard.

[@aurawolf2221]

Back when the Qunari were an actual well written race with their own thoughts, beliefs & Social rules. Before whatever Veilguard did to They/them 😂

[@shelby-r1e]

it require men to stop treating females as anything but incubator. it isnt a child nor a wife nor a mother nor sister its an incubator end of.

[@shelby-r1e]

back when men see female as nothing but incubator you meant?

[@Parum_Lucis]

@@shelby-r1e Big news, a fictional fantasy middle-aged dictatorial regime who put all its citizen it roles at their birth don't follow modern western feminism, wow !😮 You don't have to play the game if it displeases you, crazy, I know.

[@felixsylvester4266]

​@@shelby-r1eWhat a confusing comment. No, back when Dragon Age and Thedas actually had different cultures, ideologies and outlooks on life - when it felt like a believable and and (ironically) diverse world. Now it's a complete blighted ruin of what it once was.

[@twilightknight2333]

@@shelby-r1e "Women are priests, artisans, shopkeepers, or farmers. They don't fight." - Sten Not once did Sten say that women were only regulated to having children. Also, what's wrong with women being mothers? Someone has to have and raise the future of a nation or family.

[@wape14]

I've played this game a ridicilous amount of times. Seriously, I have never replayed a game as many times as I have DA:O. We're talking about 20-30 playthroughs. I've lost count to be honest. I'll probably still keep replaying this game in 2030.

[@requiem5151]

Glad to see Chad Pelinal Whitestrake approves of DA:O

[@ankaro4258]

Qunari I used to know.

[@nosvac]

If you are curious about why the new game shit all over the other games from the franchise... is because of characters like Sten. That a character like Sten exist and is not automatically annihilated in the dialogs by all characters is something they hate with all their soul. Modern writers hate realism and diversity of ideologies, before we had a truly varied set of companions with really different ways of view life and now in veilguard they seem to all come from sesame street.

[@normalusername5223]

Which is why Mass Effect 5 is going to be utter garbage, the central theme through most of Mass Effect is a non hysterical exploration of racism.

[@attilamarics3374]

@@normalusername5223 I dont get this modern fixation of making these fantasy races like eachother. Honestly from the new DnD arts etc, and the stories, you cna just feel the women hand in it. everything feels like the romance fanfiction highschool girls write.

[@azazel166]

Sten: "I don't understand, you look like a woman." GW: "Duh, that's because I am a woman."

[@zeehero7280]

My people have a saying, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

[@shelby-r1e]

he is pointing out that those things arent useful enough to fight which is why to this day there isnt a single one of those thing in military combat.

[@avioracrown6967]

Hello oldman

[@shelby-r1e]

@@zeehero7280 and yet not a single one of those thing ever fight for any freedom, it only cry and beg men to help it.

[@siamzero9480]

@@shelby-r1e Calling women "things" already disqualifies you. And there are women in fighting forces

[@lukeparsons1504]

Watching this makes me sad on what we missed RIP Dragon Age

[@Coccytuz]

omg this is gold now lol, miss the dark fantasy of REAL dragon age

[@blankeon6613]

This is a great example of what made Dragon Age Origins good. Old Bioware were not afraid to be politically incorrect. Just because a game deals with controversial subjects does not mean the writers agree with the characters expressing those opinions. DA Origins was a brilliant dark medieval fantasy game that did not pander to an overly sensitive modern audience, Veilguard is a big fat joke of a game full of 21st century politics.

[@RunesandReapers]

This wasnt politically incorrect at the time.

[@ravíloB_o_É]

@@RunesandReapers The fact is Bioware had guts and now they don't.

[@juanme555]

there is literally nothing politically incorrect about this game

[@zeriel9148]

@@RunesandReapers Yeah, I was gonna comment this. At the time this wasn't politically incorrect. Even the notion that fiction would represent real political views explicitly wasn't a thing, either.

[@paolob.6309]

@@zeriel9148not only at that time still today that is politically correct! People must understand that this is a fictional world with rules that does not apply to our world and vice versa

[@BloodDragon-40k]

I can't get over the fact that in the new "Dragon Age' everyone looks like a human, what's their excuse Origins was on a timer and some things had to be cut which moders managed to restore ,some of it atleast. I miss the days when your companions actually had a personality instead of this sanitized identity that cannot offend anyone but the normal mases.

[@UMCorian]

Sten: "You are a woman. You are a fighter. You are perfect because you are a woman. What are your pronouns? I will respect the hell out of them." - If the Dragon Age Veilguard writers did this scene

[@TheBayzent]

Sten: "I was born a woman, but nobody wants to be a woman because being a woman is icky, so I'm a man now" GW: "By the Maker, who starts a conversation like that? I literally just sat down"

[@TENEBRAELGAMING]

2009: "you look like a woman" 2024: "did you just assume my gender?"

[@Zymemaru]

but, but, Iron Bull said....

[@wardeni9603]

Iron Bull also says the Qun doesn't like women fighting. Frankly I don't think Iron Bull himself knows what he's talking about. Since BioWare's sjw developers rammed his culture in the @ss

[@sharifaha.najjar3452]

"This is why the Qun don't like women fighting, I should have asked Cullen" he said that

[@Zymemaru]

Like isn't the same as allow. Not to mention the tresspasser DLC the head of the unit was a woman and there were female NPC qunari warriors you fought againt

[@sharifaha.najjar3452]

Even though the Qun is strict, there are lots of different factions where rules likely have differences in the many places they have settled. Like Sten doesn't represent them all nor does Iron Bull so.. Its true they are more of a hive mind than other races in Thedas but they have Tal Vashoth for a reason, meaning they aren't immune from questioning tradition. As for Viddasala and her mission we don't even know if that had higher Qunari support or if she raised a merc group and went rogue. Even if it did have higher Qunari support, it doesn't necessarily mean they supported her as a warrior, more likely they would have just saw an opportunity in using her.

[@rngrtt3689]

It's like Disney and their pirates saying "a good pirate doesn't steal anyones property". It's ideologized writing, in both cases. They take a strong basis for a character and pour some honey glazing on it like it. Even tho it contradicts the premicises. Sten being the pure essence of the qunari, knowing his duty and his code by heart and BOOM. After the Fifth's Blight every qunari is like yeah you can change what you are, the Qun has women fighters, changing your sex is no big deal. Wtf I would have thought there would be some continuity in the doctrine but I guess yay progressism wins the Qun too... Honestly Iron Bull and Bioware did Sten dirty...

[@sealmemesix2986]

DAO: Women are not warriors. DAV: Women are not women.

[@Legoman775]

DAV: what is a woman?

[@MisterCynic18]

I mean it does track. If women are not warriors, the warrior woman clearly cannot be a woman. That could fit nicely into the Qun world view: you can do what you want, but we'll define what you are based on that, since clearly you wouldn't be able to do it if you weren't actually that. Forced trans status would be an amusing inversion.

[@DarthLeg1ON]

DAV has no men or women, there are male/female body types and he/she/they pronouns. It looks absurd, but it's true. Playing with female voice, male body type and they pronoun would be so ridiculous :D

[@Legoman775]

@@DarthLeg1ON we live in a society where people think thats the norm XD

[@pepper-oni]

@@Legoman775 It's someone who identifies as a woman xd

[@franciscoramadhan9156]

whole dialogue did better marketing for me than veilguard lol

[@ottovrizo5693]

Bioware made some great games, shame it doesnt exist anymore

[@Jon-u5j8u]

Just in case there's any doubt as to whether the whole "trans inclusive" thing that Inquisition brought to the table was a retcon or not.... When Sten brings this up to companions, they specifically ask "do you consider me a man?" and his response is "why would you want to be a man, that's stupid". It's a retcon through and through.

[@eee-wr8xo]

Someone please tell Sten about trans qunari and pronouns in the new dragon age veilguard..

[@thecircleoft.e.d2121]

There’s an AI conversation video asking to be made.

[@Achaemus]

The irony is that all of the new qunari would be hunted and killed by the old qunari as heratics. Thankfully thats not a real world parallel, but how far they have fallen

[@xerael4659]

Sten: I don't understand, you look like a woman. Why would women ever wish to be men? Taash: * internal screeching *

[@Enclavefakesoldier]

@@Achaemus they would be seen as Tal-Vashoth if not worse

[@MsSharondenadel]

DA1 : I am a Qunari DA4 : *_I IDENTIFY AS A CANARY_*

[@mariano98ify]

FromCanary Islands? 😂

[@KahavaveCAPIPI]

You know, I can get behind the way they finagled it in DA2; women can't be warriors but they can still have a job that involves fighting. Technically a lore change, but something I can understand as a pragmatic compromise under specific circumstances. It might be seen as slight heresy to a Sten, but its absolutely something I can see the bosses justifying as necessary to accomplish goals; a spy isn't supposed to fight, but if her job involves the occasional stabbing that's not too bad. Inquisition deciding that the Qun would be chill with trans people? Veilguard being veilguard? If you really wanted to make a trans character, they should have been Tal-Vashoth, with their oppression and control under the Qun being what pushed them to realize that if the priests were wrong about what they were supposed to do maybe they were wrong about what they were entirely. That would have been interesting and an exploration of the themes of an authoritarian system pushing people to rebel far further than leniency would.

[@jabuci]

I'm replaying this game and I had this exact conversation just yesterday. And now, KZbin brought this up for me. How?

[@trucid2]

It's no coincidence that you were playing DAO and youtube pushing out this video shortly after Veilguard came out.

[@darkkaas8399]

Sten, 10 push-ups!

[@PseudonymsAreGovnoYaEbalGoogle]

Back in a day then characters were written as people with actual beliefs (wrong or right) and not as lazy cardboard cutouts. In DA:O companions had their own beliefs and biases and you could argue with them, convince them to look at things from different perspective. Nowdays developers don't bother much with writing.

[@AngryCosmonaut]

Just gonna gloss over that Ogrehn is just a drunk dwarf, Zevran is just an accent, Alistair is a man child with a dumb mid 2000s haircut, and Wynn is just old woman?

[@Infuzibil]

A conversation between Sten and Tash would be really entertaining.

[@astari24]

Sten was not just a brute; he was a wise warrior

[@Xivinux]

This brings me so much joy. What a legend this guy was man

[@Neko_Medic]

Sten still respects the female warden and comes to accept women can be warriors. He would still lack anything resembling Respect for traash who seeks others to respect her just because.

[@Arko777777]

Taash would've cried after one minute with old Morrigan or Sten, that's for sure. Respect is given, not earned, and that's shown beautifully with Sten's development throughout the story.

[@cybertramon0012]

It's interesting to note that in this conversation he never questions if you are a warrior. You're a Grey Warden, being a warrior is a certainty. So he has to question whether you are truly a woman.

[@codysellers4151]

@@cybertramon0012 funny enough I’m doing a DAO run now as a female character. I got his approval high super quick, am halfway thru the game, and he’s not had this discussion with me. lol. Still a lot of game left though, could still happen.

[@kavky]

Traash: "So, I'm non-binary." Sten: "Who is this binary and why are you against him?"

[@thiefthearcher9907]

I miss Sten. He stole cookies from a kid because he was fat. And then followed it up with “For his own good.”😂

[@shuttze]

veilguard devs would fucking explode watching this

[@darunmr]

i miss dragon age so much

[@scottayres8606]

So this means cannonically until this moment Sten thought you were a Femboy.

[@Umirua]

Look, I can accept the fact that Bioware can bring up things like these. Heck, how Dorian had to confront his father about his sexuality gave his character depth and a pretty good story while he had a great personality. But simply removing things or changing it so that it won't seem offensive is just wrong. They should've kept this and the Qun's strict gender roles as it gave them depth. Making them ideally accepting seems (sure maybe true to the fantasy genre) boring

[@maidenofiron]

This comment aged like fine wine.

[@Selesto1]

The Qunari in DA:O & II were so interesting. (Literally, the best part of DAII) They also were always open about the fact, that one day die Qunari will come to conquer all, so they were always this threat kinda out there, waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And now we´ve got "YoU cAn Be WhAtEvEr YoU wAnT uNdEr ThE QuN"

[@jakubport7361]

Qunari used to live on Par Vollen islands before they relocated to San Francisco ~

[@rathenn6959]

Love how this BTFO's Veilguard. Especially the insistence on the dialogue repeating that Taash is non-binary just in case you somehow missed it. Thankfully didn't waste my money on anything beyond DA:O - Inquisition looked mediocre, Veilguard is outright insulting.

[@dudeimtellingthetruth]

Look how they massacred my favorite franchise right at the first sequel

[@BigBoss-rr4sw]

So it isn't your favorite franchise, but rather your favorite game lol

[@dudeimtellingthetruth]

@BigBoss-rr4sw if we consider awakening a different game, you can call it franchise lol

[@BigBoss-rr4sw]

@@dudeimtellingthetruth I consider the DLCs to just be part of origins, so not really lol

[@dudeimtellingthetruth]

@@BigBoss-rr4sw they kinda sell it as a separate game, correct me if I'm wrong

[@DillionMatt]

@@BigBoss-rr4sw you sound like a douch

[@JamesFischer_35]

I miss these days. A legend we have experienced. I hope somehow an "unwoke" team makes the remake of Origins. that would be a news to see.

[@PleaseElaborate]

It's not sexism, it's modalism. Do your research! While typing the sentence above I realized that, when you think about it, the Qunari turned min-maxing into a religious mandate, and that is terrifying.

[@TrafalgarWaterDLaw-dl5cm]

They literary are the only culture with gunpowder, iron ships and absolute devotion in their roles. Each soldier ready to die without fear for the cause. Perfect supply lines, strategy, efficiency and much more. And it showed. Think back to DA2 where the Arishok with one shipcrew took over a city. And nobody was able to do anything except the main character itself. And that was after being stuck there for years.

[@Ouroboros619]

Min-maxing is the PERFECT way to describe the Qunari approach to life

[@kualarompin589]

And suddenly in Inquisition, Iron Bull said women can be men if they think they were born men, and vice versa. And they created Krem to push this narative. Look I like Krem as a character, but I hated Inquisition butchered the Qun just to push a narrative. That's why I always let the Chargers die after using them on the Wartable.

[@zeehero7280]

There are 2 dragon age games.

[@Unworshipediety]

They aren't a real culture, and it's a fantasy game. I enjoy when games do this sort of thing, it just makes it more interesting to me to play. Let's you decide what kind of relationship you want to have with your companions or how you interact with the plot. If everything reads like your favorite thing ever, then you get a game like Veilguard. Like... congrats on taking the mid ground on every topic. B o r I n g, but hey know that's just me. The more weird a race is the more interesting they are. Like how the Asari evolved throughout the Mass Effecr franchise... that was wild ride too. Didn't like all the changes but, you know, I liked most of the characters.

[@Norinia]

There was an Elven Qunari from Dragon Age 2 which made it make enough sense to me. These are roles the Qun makes it’s subjects live. In Qunari society, there are almost no chances for a woman to ‘prove herself to be a man’, so it almost never happpened for the race we call Qunari (which, btw, are an actual different race name. Veilguard stole our chance to hear their true damn name) however, when they find such a person, they give them the ‘honor’ of calling themself ‘man’ as a way of justifying their role. However, As much as Iron Bull might have said Krem can be a man if they chose, I have doubts on them being so understanding on *reproduction.* I feel like such people would be forbidden from reproducing, citing they were not born, and thus don’t get ‘all the rights of a man’ (something common in the trope; a freshly knighted knight does not have the same rights and entitlements as a ‘pure blooded’ knight.)

[@mac19999x]

@@Unworshipediety ItS a FaNtAsy GaMe... so what? Does that mean the games lore is not to be criticised? What exactly are you trying to imply here? Is this some virtue signal where you pretend someone is agitated so you can be the hero who calms unhinged lad down? Good job. Did you upvote your comment?

[@Unworshipediety]

@@mac19999x Oh gawd, you bigots are so annoying. You just get up in the morning and decide to yourself _"How can I piss myself off today?"_ and then you proceed to activity make yourself unhappy and on purpose. It's so weird. I sometimes forget what virtue signaling originally even meant, cause you guys are always changing what its intent is so you can frame any dissenting opinions in a framework that can only inspire you to get even angry at yourselves. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. But here's the thing about Dragonage that I wish they kept in. 1. Cool-looking Quinari. These pretty-boy Quinari are like hot-topic wannabe's it's hard to take myself seriously when I'm a badass warrior who comes from a Klingon-like culture but I'm also the pretty person in the room. 🤣🤣 2. It's so damn shiny and happy. Imagine how cool Bellara would be if the game was grimdark. She'd stand out a hell of a lot more if she's the only person in your party being cheerful while the rest of you are stepping over dead bodies. It would be weird but cool and almost creepy. 3. I really liked being able to control my party members. Being able to play as them as that helped me not get bored of the game loop. But gender stuff just doesn't ruin my day. Race stuff also doesn't make me piss myself. In these imaginary worlds that are completely made up, I just can't be asked to care if a fake race that doesn't exist suddenly doesn't like whatever. And in the next game, then suddenly like *whatever* that thing was. Now if I'm playing some game that sells itself on being all historically accurate and crap and suddenly I'm playing a Viking badass and my Yarl is a female Afro-wearing woman named Yalonda Booty Buster, then ya know... I might be irked. lol But I just can't go out of my way to get mad at fantasy... being fantasy. Sue me bro, I just don't give a crap. I'm here for fun most of the time. Oh and I do wish hotness would return or the option to have hotness would be more available these days. I do miss that.

[@KosmatyWilczek]

This conversation is even more special today, with the release of failguard.

[@victoriasharpe1661]

I didn’t finish Veilguard. I ended up going back to DA Origins. Finished it last night. Enjoyed it more than I usually do, simply because of how good it used to be. ‘We don’t realise how good we have it, till it’s gone’ so true 😢

[@yeetytheyeti5520]

You know what they say, if it's not progressive, then it's not canon.

[@Echo2602]

Thats why they changed it in the other games

[@davidkings6940]

it was progressive during 3 games, I loved inquisition, but what they did there with the qunari lore was bullshit.

[@wardeni9603]

Inquisition is very convoluted with this subject (thanks to sjw pampering). Iron Bull claims that there are women in the qun who are considered men, but then he also shouts to cassandra "this is why the Qun doesn't like women fighting"

[@set9034]

Serwarden By what I can understand of the Qunari is that their practical sense of fulfillment is that they at least acknowledge that one gender is far more suitable for a task then its opposite. Now this is from the wiki and the codex "No matter how much aptitude and promise a male shows for management , he will never be considered as good at it as a female, therefore it would be considered inefficient and a waste of resources to place him in a role where a woman would serve better. Instead, the Tamassrans find another role that he shows aptitude for and will place him there instead. The same goes for females, most Qunari will find it odd if a female becomes a warrior." Then of course you have that whole Aqun-Athlok, one gender living as another. So I guess with that being said are characters like Tallis considered male given that she fights? If a man bakes under the qun is he considered a woman? And how often do women actually fight in the Qun because again we do have Tallis, I do recall fighting female qunari and a bunch of them in trespasser so where does the rare line stop? Either way despite the explanation this does give off a different feel to the Qunari then in past games.

[@OneReallyGrumpyJill]

But it is still canon? Qunari still believe that women can't be fighters.

[@AegisAuras]

It’s clear the assumed position the player would have on the issue is that women could fight. Yet the counter opinion from the guy is written well and respectfully. He’s not depicted as a strawman. This is well written dialogue that encourages critical thinking and consideration of other worldviews. It’s not just echo chamber slop like we see in veilguard.

[@mokadelic4037]

Sten is BASED

[@zeehero7280]

He's wrong. but he's based for being a product of a time when superior fiction was made. Sometimes being wrong is being based, especially in fiction

[@Ralphoifyful]

@@zeehero7280 nope, he's not. Superior cultures don't go against nature putting women on the frontlines, simple as

[@theobell2002]

@@Ralphoifyful How to tell me you've never touched a woman.

[@16Vagabond]

@@Ralphoifyful he's literally proven wrong in game tho and admits it by the end

[@Askarcher]

Sten was written by a woman

[@spyrofrost9158]

Tfw this fantasy species is closer to realistic humans than fantasy humans are.

[@MarcusTheGreatIAmTheLastOne]

Sten was my favorite from Origins. Not sure if is the voice actor or the script that made him seem more knowledgeable. Didn't really dig Iron Bull's whole persona, the talks in between or party banter was ok.

[@davidkings6940]

I prefer sten too over iron bull, sten was unique, and through him you could see the difference in races of a qunari, while iron bull acted like any other human, just with horns.

[@alexMAN6000]

Sten was an absolutely incredible character. He taught me so much about the Qun and the Qunari and made me fall in love with them.. Bioware achieved something many fantasy games fail to do. Introduce a new, interesting and compelling race and culture.... Then they pissed it up the wall.

[@HOYOlore]

damn this aged well

[@JRyan56]

"Buuuuuut this offends meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" - Dragon Age: Failguard writer.

[@AlphaOmega804]

Pay attention Veilguard. This is how you promot equality diversity etc Without choking on it!!

[@mike2410]

Why must they promote DEI?

[@chriskoloski32]

At least after this and sten became arishok he actually allowed women to be warriors. Must have been very difficult for him to convince the arigena and ariqun to change tradition like that. Imagine if he also managed to convince them that mages arent that dangerous and evil too

[@SuperLumianaire]

Maybe, just maybe that's why the Qun, or at least Iron Bull is accepting of Krem?

[@oldgreg2914]

@@SuperLumianaire Or maybe they just fired all of the previous writers and got a bunch of millennials who do not know how many genders there are to write the game.

[@oakenstone4438]

@@SuperLumianaire According to Iron Bull that's what Krem identifies as, so he is respecting his choice, not because of the qun, and he makes no comment on if you play a female warrior.

[@SuperLumianaire]

@@oakenstone4438 Iron Bull would rather let bygones be bygones unless you free him of the Qun, that's his only sticking point.

[@requiem5151]

@@oakenstone4438 Actually not, Iron Bull says there're transgender characters in the Qun with a specific name for it which I can't remember. This was pretty much retconning by Bioware to add a diversity token character such as Krem. Pretty stupid because as shown by Sten the Qunari believe that men and women have assigned roles based on their biology, your biology is not chosen.

[@fatal_error_3]

Should DAO ever get remastered, this conversation will be cut from the game.

[@TeeAiDee]

After the absolute travesty that is Veilguard, I hope they NEVER remaster this game.

[@Achaemus]

Half the game will be cut. Remember the Broodmother questline?

[@Spiralpaladin]

They couldn't AFFORD to cut this dialogue with how disastrous Veilguard has been, yet they likely would anyway, because apparently virtue signalling is more important than respectfully continuing the story of a setting in a way that's consistent with everything that came before.

[@UnlimitedMrX]

Not only would they destroy the remaster by getting rid of important content like this, but BioWare will do the hot new AAA game thing and delist the original DAO off of digital storefronts, to try and erase the past. God, I hate corpos so damn much...

[@user-zg6kb7jf4l]

„Why would women ever wish to be men? That makes no sense.“ Then Inquisition comes along and Qun has its own term for trans people. Good writing and consistency , where are you?

[@bgill6623]

Vincent Van GoghFuckYourself oh oh and don't forget in the Trespassor DLC where the qunari had a "female" commander

[@guilhermeroyama8842]

Brendan Gill Viddasala was a Ben-Hassrath. They are a branch of the Ariqun. And the Ariqun accepts women.

[@Umirua]

What's next? Homophobia isn't a thing in Tevinter, no rather homosexuality is a very openly accepted thing and Dorian had no reasons go away at all?

[@guilhermeroyama8842]

V. Knoxville The qun believes that you are what you are born to be. A male is not a male because it acts like a male. Iron Bull is a liberal qunari and for that reason eventually became a Tal-Vashoth. His opinion is not of the qun. Just like some "neo-christians" from nowadays are not real christians. You are not something just because you say you are that. Get over it.

[@guilhermeroyama8842]

V. Knoxville Another snowflake... Great... Listen up. 1- Sten said in the first game that "a merchant will never be noble. He will always be a merchant-turned-noble." In the qun, a person is what they are born to be. 2- You are using DAI as an argument. DAI was made in 2014 while the developers wanted to make the game more "progressive", so they changed a lot of things from the first game to make the game closer to our "new reality". If you want a proof, just play DAO and pay attention to some details. DAI was made to appeal to a new vision of the world, both in ours and in the game. In DAO, the men and women were not seen as equals, as an example. Just play as a female Warden and you will hear a lot of sexist comments. Some men will even try to rape your character. 3- Again, Iron Bull was made that way for two reasons. Bioware wanted to make the qunari more akin to humans, having different points of view, caring for love, friendship, and not just "the will of the qun". And the fact they wanted to make the game more progressive. Or you think snowflakes like you would feel good hearing that people are not equal, men/women are ill for some positions, and you can't be something just because you want to? Again. Get Over It

[@peterchestowski2419]

"Can they?" sounds so right. Can or are they made to believe they can, when reality is different.

[@thelast749]

In the Gray Warden's case. She absolutely can be a warrior

[@csabas.6342]

They can. They just need to give their attribute points to the right places and choose the abilities that compliments their class.

[@codysellers4151]

One of the hardest hitting mini-bosses in the game is Loghain’s personal knight, a woman.

[@wesleygee1062]

This started in Inquisition. Here Sten says women do not fight and even quotes "Why would women ever wish to be men? That makes no sense." This clearly shows that the Qunari do not respect trans ideology. Now flashforward the Inquisition, with Iron Bull, he tells Krem his transgender mercenary that the Qunari have a word called Aqun-Athlok meaning "someone born in one gender but living in another. Then when asked "do they treat them like real men?" Bull replies with "They are real men, just like you are." Iron Bull is a very liberal Qunari based on Qunari standards and him acepting Krem based their merit alone is totally understandable. Yet you have a scene where Iron Bull complains about having Cassandra his him and then asked "I should have never asked a woman," but by all physical accounts that discredits Krem who was born a woman. Sten is a true Qunari, he's your first look at the Qunari world as the player. Dragon Age 2 shows you how the Qunari live their lives from first hand experience, rather than Sten's stories. You even see how they view Tal-Vashoth, when Talis you meet is an elf chosen to be a Qunari, which gives more insight. With this in mind, nothing Iron Bull says to Krem makes any sense and its just Bioware wanting to make a few woke points because of the current day beliefs. It's okay to have racist, sexist, homophobic and transphobic characters and cultures. It's fantasy and it makes it better because what is interesting is not that they're accepting of others, but rather how those affected act and react to said scenario. In the Iron Bull and Krem scenario, a better and more believable solution is: "No the Qunari would never see you as a man, they're headstrong in their ways and no exceptions for anyone, regardless. However, to me Krem, what matters is not that you were born a woman, but that you can fight as well as any man I know. So to me, you are a real man and don't let anyone else tell you any differently." Now you have consistency with Qunari lore and how they handle complicated subjects such as gender ideology. Of course the Qunari would never accept them but Iron Bull is not like most Qunari which would show that he is liberal minded (probably because he's a spy and spends most of his time outside of the Qunari Homeland and interacting with the other races, changing his world view) but that he's also supportive of Krem and their plight of the issues and struggles that comes from being trans. Sten would never accept Krem, and we would never want him to. Sten states how the Qunari are and its up to Bioware to stay consistent otherwise its a plothole. I loved inquistion but this video solidfies my hatred of that one scene in inquisition. THIS IS THE QUNARI WE DESERVED IN VEILGUARD, THE GRITTY DARK FANTASY THAT IS CRUEL TO IT'S CHARACTERS!

[@DeeDub02]

The algorithm gods laughing their ass off at this

[@MsSharondenadel]

I remember that. Time flies so fast.

[@Kat1kafka]

I want this game to be remastered 😢

[@xLetalis]

Me too, but if they do, they may remove this part ;]

[@davidkings6940]

+xLetalis no remaster then

[@raziel6304]

That would be ironic.

[@GameslordXY]

xLetalis Why? Because some of you see Stan's views as an absolute truths about Qunari culture,that do not or should not have exceptions? It's incredibly close minded culture that keeps everyone,or tries to,on a short leash. So it's likely that many except those on highest government positions and highest Ben Hastrath,are just being manipulated or rather indoctrinated into unquestionable obidiance regardless of real situation and therefore don't have all the facts. Perhaps GW should have had this as a choice answer: "I am not fighting Stan.I am dancing. A deadly 💃 with a crap tone worth of dead vermin at the end."

[@raziel6304]

Nice strawman.

[@OkSid300]

The music makes me feel shivers and a little bit sad. All these new releases make me even more grateful for the old games.

[@richr1917]

Based Sten ;) What the hell would he make of Veilguard?

[@xLetalis]

Haven't even played it :)

[@InvertedWIng]

"I don't understand. This does not look like a Dragon Age game."

[@pageachatter229]

Well, Bioware seems to have forgotten that Qunari value order and rigid roles above all else. So 'non-binary' wouldn't even be a thing for them.

[@rowhuw3553]

@@pageachatter229 Those under the Qun value order and rigid roles above all else. Taash and many other Qunari don't follow the Qun, and were born outside of it (those known as Vashoth). There are many Qunari who have followed the Qun but don't follow it anymore or rebel against it (those known as the Tal-Vashoth). Just because Qunari exist in the world, it doesn't mean they are a monolith of thought like those who follow the Qun. This has been the established lore position since Dragon Age 2.

[@pageachatter229]

@@rowhuw3553 That is true. Doesn't make the idea of a 'non-binary' Qunari any less ridiculous or dumb.

[@gundamdetractor337]

"Woman! Are you listening? Woman! I do not intend to fight. Now hurry up and retreat. I don't kill women and children." -Chang Wufei

[@The482075]

Imagine if being a Qunari was a playable race in Origins. Stem's mind would be blown by a female Qunari warrior!

[@Ginger_Tank]

Anyone else here after Veilguard?

[@lauriestrode6277]

уахахах, в современных играх мы такого больше не встретим

[@prinnyx8095]

you should reupload this to mock dragon age veilguard residents

[@Marcusmanca]

bro listening this in 2023 make you realize how fucking soft the west got with media and entertainment . now they wouldn't 't have the balls to make a character say this type of things . its depressing

[@xLetalis]

they even made him go against his own words in Inquisition

[@tarkusblackiron7743]

Didn't know bro was chill like that.

[@TheAquarius87]

Like fine wine 🍷

[@jesusfranco]

0:30 Sven foreseeing Dragon Age: Veilguard 15 years ago... He was always wiser than the rest...

[@ricijs2000]

you cant win in the game of wits and logic whit stan its like flirting whit a qunari tamasran

[@machineguncrally7020]

That camp music in this game is timeless

[@TheTraveler980]

Ah, thank you, recommendations... needed to wash out that bad tasting Veilguard.

[@GodOfOrphans]

Kind of a missed oppurtunity to bring up that many Grey Wardens are conscripts, potentially including the player character, they didn't choose to be a grey warden they simply are, a way to sort of attempt to explain the situation using his own deterministic logic, doubt it'd convince him but it's a better retort than the ones on offer.

[@ThatDjinn]

And then Iron Bull in Inquisition is the exact opposite of this, where he will tell you off if you even question what a trans person is. DA Inquisition was actually the first time I heard about this issue, way to go to immediately turn me against it by chastising me!

[@Osiris1905]

Nowadays if two characters have conflicting beliefs in a dragon age game one of them gets screamed at for no reason and has to do punishment pushups because god forbid having a genuine conversation about subjects that could be deemed touchy

[@cynicalpsycho5574]

Back before they were transformed into DnD Tiefling wannabes. (All the other shit goes without saying)

[@mekoware2358]

Admittedly they started to subtly change a lot of the lore as early as Dragon age 2. I'm willing to bet that they wouldn't have thought that people would have remembered subtle details such as Sten's earlier lines.

[@royox]

Bioware when they knew how to write games and characters.