Women Priests in the Early Church ???

[@brianfarley926]

Great episode. People who argue for women priests and use arguments from silence and advocate for women priests in Catholicism is because with the 21st century mindset to them it’s misogynistic and if the Church didn’t have women priests we must use arguments to muddy the waters because they can’t stand a Church who doesn’t have women priests. And what’s ridiculous with their position is that there are other churches who have women ministers and if that’s there view they can go there. It’s honestly an intolerant view of Catholicism based on their worldview. These are the same people who argue for abortion, divorce and re marriage within the church. Same crowd.

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

To your last comment, that’s like saying “those other states don’t have slaves so if you hate slavery so much you should just go there!”.

[@tookie36]

It’s a cultural pushback from centuries of the failure of male leadership. If the men would of lived up to the standard set in the Bible they would have raised up women in a variety of ways. But we didn’t get that for almost 2000 years and many Christians faught against women working, women voting, etc.

[@carsonianthegreat4672]

Interesting timing on me finding this video! Just yesterday on 60 Minutes Pope Francis was asked “[F]or a little girl growing up Catholic today, will she ever have the opportunity to be a deacon and participate as a clergy member in the Church?” His Holiness’ answer: “No.” The interviewer pressed a little bit and asked if the female deaconate was “something you’re open to?” Pope Francis reiterated: “If it is deacons with holy orders, no. But women have always had, I would say, the function of deaconesses without being deacons, right? Women are of great service as women, not as ministers, as ministers in this regard, within the holy orders.” Great stuff!

[@martincorneille7998]

Guys you're dynamite! I've never Heard such a great defense of presbyter=priest. God bless your work!

[@pepesellsbutwhosbuying7925]

I'm laughing because I just watched a talk show in Croatian about the state of the Church there, and this exact topic was mentioned. The lone female on the panel said that the Catholic Church needs to eliminate the patriarchy and return to the first few centuries when "a different paradigm existed for the Church". Videos like this give us good ammo when confronted with dissent.

[@IVANOsijek007]

Lana Bobić 😂 she graduated protestant college, pro choice, pro LGBT, idk how can she call herself catholic.

[@pepesellsbutwhosbuying7925]

@@IVANOsijek007 LOL I know. Ali ljudi poput nje nisu problem, nego sama Crkva koja nema pojma što se događa niti ima lijek za društvene probleme. Štahan i Musić su sve objasnili, kratko i jasno.

[@moniquelemaire5333]

Another excellent book by Dr. Del Birkey is entitled:. "The Fall of Patriarchy.". When we consider what Paul wrote in Galatians 3: 28 " There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.". Yes, Phoebe was known as a Deacon in the Church at Chenchrea, and according to Christian history she delivered the Letter from Paul to the Church at Rome. Titus 2 is very specific saying that Older Women are to teach the younger women. Henceforth, Older Women are in the Greek Presbytera. Is this a leadership position.....well if all the sexual allegations to males..in today's church, .then the men should take the big hint that women should teach women, and men should teach men...we must be proper. I as a single Christian woman would not at all want to go to some Christian man, because that man cannot relate at all to what I need counsel in. I went to a large church for about 15 years and they had women in ministry, who taught, discipled and counseled the women. The modern local church needs to learn from this. Let's keep what Peter wrote in mind, that we are indeed the "priesthood of all believers.". Patriarchy is gone because of Jesus. Read Dr. Birkey's book. Keep up the good work. Miss Monique 🙂🙏💗🎶🎉🎆✝️

[@amyj4283]

@@moniquelemaire5333 Keep dreaming

[@pepesellsbutwhosbuying7925]

@@moniquelemaire5333 Only men can be priests, but I don't think anyone here has a problem with older women instructing female youth as long as they have a proper theological foundation. Nuns basically filled that role until very recently, but with their numbers in steep decline the Church definitely needs laywomen to step in and minister (by that I mean instruct or teach, not replace the role of a priest). The Church is currently in a death spiral, so there won't be any positive change on any issue for awhile.

[@pop6997]

You treat this with delicacy, understanding & so much wonderful orthodoxy, good will and truth! Thank you! From a grateful female mum x

[@pop6997]

​@Eve Lists Yes, I could have worded that better! :)

[@butterflybeatles]

Does it make sense that there was ordained women in the early Church when St. Paul says that women should keep silence in church?

[@tonyl3762]

Yet Paul allows women to prophesy. What is more direct is that Paul says he does not allow women to be in authority over men.

[@christinacanto3740]

The word used there means wife more so than women. It is the same word for both, but in context you see that these women have husbands because he instructs them to talk to their husbands. It is also apparent that he is talking about women who are learning, not women leaders. So it’s not a nail-in-the-coffin, so to speak, for women priests.

[@tonyl3762]

@@christinacanto3740 where is the context of husband and wife in 1Tim 2:12? Regardless, Tradition and Magisterium are the nail, as with all interpretation.

[@christinacanto3740]

@@tonyl3762 in 1 Timothy, the word translated “woman” is more accurately translated as “wife.” And “over a man” can be translated as “over her husband.” This should be noted in your bible’s footnotes. And given that Paul talks about women leaders in other passages, and even tells congregations to listen to women he sends, the more plausible reading is that he’s not making a blanket statement about the entire gender. Rather, he’s addressing married couples. I was more so referring to 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, where plenty of scholars have explained that because he tells the women to ask their husbands about the church’s teaching, the women he is referring to are obviously the married women. But yes, there are plenty of good arguments for an all male priesthood. I’m simply commenting that those passages do not, by themselves, settle the question given the context.

[@christinacanto3740]

@@tonyl3762 by the way, this interpretation aligns with what the brothers are talking about in this video… Women WERE teaching and had significant roles. But they were widows and consecrated virgins, not wives with husbands and families to raise. From experience, those women would not have time to lead or teach 😂

[@zanderlukas1248]

Brothers, I am a cradle Catholic and sadly I didn't know this, thank you for teaching me May Our Lord Jesus Christ bless you both and your families.

[@tonyl3762]

I appreciate the in-depth analysis of Church offices, going back to OT and going well beyond the issue of ordaining women. Also fascinating to use Gnostic writings as hostile witnesses

[@JV-jr6ex]

@25:37 - the point no doubt explains a lot of the details (especially the vestments) of King Charles' coronation.

[@papoochacoo]

I'm not sure what you're implying. But my impression is that the royalty are Druids & yes, they would be anointing a leader. I know Druids supposedly 'disappeared'. However, it seemed they merely went into hiding. That 'disappearance' coincided with the same century (300AD) codification of the New Testament, the Talmud (✡👿, black magic). An extremely interesting century! That is even the war between ✝️Catholic Church and Druids/✡s was declared BECAUSE, (imho) ✝️St. Patrick challenged them.

[@TheOtherPaul]

A very informative watch for this Anglican, despite some points of dispute. Good stuff gents! As a 1st Clement connoisseur I was surprised you didnt point to the letter's explicit ascription of the episcopal office to men: 1st Clem. 44: For this reason they appointed the aforementioned leaders, and afterwards gave the office a permanent character [or codicile; there's a variant], that if these should fall asleep, other approved *men* (ἄνδρες, adult males) should succeed to their ministry. This cuts past the ambiguities of grammatical gender and refers to men-proper.

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

What do you mean that it “cuts past the ambiguity of grammatical gender”? Ἄνδρες” is used of only men as well as a group of men and women. For example, Acts 17:22 where Paul says “Ἄνδρες of Athens” even though in 12 verses later, we see there is at least one woman in the crowd. Acts 17:34 “Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.”

[@TheOtherPaul]

@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou that doesn't show Paul meant "people without respect to gender." The presence of one or two woman among a crowd of men would not discount the use of aner/andres as a gendered term, and the mere fact of that term's use by Paul strongly confirms that the crowd was overwhelmingly male (since its gendered use is clear in the language). "Anthropos" is most appropriate as a reference to person w/o regard for sex; aner is very clearly a designation of "man" ala sex specifically. Even the potential of an exceptional use does not overthrow its dominant sense, which nothing in 1st Clement mitigates against.

[@JV-jr6ex]

@32:44 - does this point hold up with the frequent connection between what was solidly the office of 'deacon' by the early 2nd century, and the not-cohen 'Levite,' i.e. the other 'ministers' in the temple who were not the cohanim? Ordination rites across both the east and west make a pretty solid connection of the deacon to the non-cohen levite, as I recall (as well as some early Patristic sources).

[@butterflybeatles]

What interesting music in the last five seconds.

[@johnedward-jessop9477]

Season 2? The "Second" 500 Years? lol but seriously though, love all the work you guys have put through!

[@tafazzi-on-discord]

I love your work, and I understand more and more by watching this series that the ancestral idea of "priest" that you both so wonderfully reveal to us is sadly alien to modern (young people) culture. I'm sure that anyone, even from a protestant perspective, that delves deep enough into the Old Testament can come out of it with a hunch of what priesthood is, but what I'm talking about is a shared prototype of the priest. The closest is probably the D&D cleric which fails on multiple levels...

[@daviddabrowski01]

What are some good resources to begin reading the early church fathers? Dzieki 🙏🏻

[@TheCatholicBrothers]

Start with the apostolic fathers. The best volume is: Michael W. Holmes, “The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations” If you’ve already read those texts, then I would suggest getting the Ante-Nicene Fathers series on kindle (if you buy the volumes, they’re crazy expensive). Another FANTASTIC set of volumes are the Popular Patristic Series by St Vladimir Press

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

“Husband of one wife” is an idiom for not sleeping around. There are a number of arguments that have pretty much proven this. Even Chrysostom who knew Greek said a woman could be a husband of one wife.. Regarding clan leaders like Abraham being priests. What is the evidence for this? What is the evidence that kings were considered priests? An even bigger question, why should we model our churches off of the priesthood of the Old Testament when the task of a priest was entirely different then compared to now?

[@jamesajiduah2001]

When Abraham sacrificed animals to God? And Melchizedek?

[@butterflybeatles]

Was Phoebe a Gentile?

[@JohnHenry-w5m]

Thank you very much. Good stuff. I am a convert from Pentecostism (ex elder 😂) … the only thing I recommend not to do is to go against brothers like Taylor Marshall. I live in the diocese where a quasi LGTB code of conduct needs to be signed to work in the Church and I see what is happening in Germany. It is very hard to see this not as a „program“ of abolishing the deposit of faith indeed from top down … God bless 🙏

[@ultimateoriginalgod]

I would recommend their episode on Taylor Marshall, since I think you're associating Marshall with a side in a debate and not the man himself. In that video, they show how he is misquoting multiple people and is uncharitable to serve an ecclesial fundamentalism. I'm sorry about your pain, and I hope God relieves you of poor secular and Ecclesiastical leadership.

[@richardfellows4734]

Brothers, do you really think that Paul wrote the Pastoral Epistles? Have you not read the scholarship on this? I worry that you are building a lot on the words of a sexist liar.

[@mpress469]

The genetic code origins of feminism can perhaps best be found in the Genesis source code of our cultural operating system. Spiritually speaking (gender aside), matriarchal wisdom can begin with a fundamental understanding of the cyclical nature of reality (God). Represented by the snake in many creation myths, the living cycle has a trinity of a beginning (head), a middle and end (tail). As above so below, the sexes were created in the image of God's cyclical nature where Mother is the head and opening to all beginnings and Father holds the tail to all endings (through which the sowing of seeds allow for the next great matriarchal rebirth).The joining of the two (symbolized by the Ouroborus or the marriage ring) is the sacred union needed in assuring the creation and continuation of new life cycles. To speak of the present day God as "Our Father" is simply an admission to our collective positioning within the bigger cycle. As all mothers have direct experience with the creator quality of birthing, so is the direct experience of rebirthing the divinity within (baptism) belong to that which is spiritually matriarchal. (John 3, verse 3-8). Sekhmet statues (ancient Egyptian) carry most of their weight in symbolic memory of what was a mother culture dedicated to the direct experience of baptism. As the leg shaped hairlocks extend from maternal breasts to the womb of rebirth, the lioness's head proportions are such that they highlight the bust of a second animal figure. The Lioness's ears as eyes and eyes as nose (nostrils) brings to life the figure of a reptile. 'Neath the halo headress of the solar egg, the lioness's egg fertilization process being internal (Set) and the reptile's egg fertilization process being external (Setting), such being key components to the safety of entering the trans-egoic or "born again" state. The life threatening fear associated with the predatory nature of a lion and/or crocodile encounter are reflective of the intense ego death experiences associated with the transpersonal awakening process. In spiritually matriarchal times, illumination could be seen as wearing the false beard (ancient Egyptian funerary "ego" death mask) as the high state of cyclical self knowing; high awareness of both our upper matriarchal half and our lower (later) patriarchal half (compared with a mini lower body replica, an "as above so below" tail end beard extension); in full recognition of her civilizational Underworld; her inevitable cyclical destiny. The male pharaoh wears his beard tapered in reverse, indicating a pointing upwards towards the patriarchal head, divine representative of God's tail end cycle. Mary's anointing and wiping of Jesus's feet with her hair can then be seen as "Head to tail" (toe) imagery as she descends her matriarchal head to his patriarchal feet, thus reenacting the high understanding of the divine cyclical process. (John 12, verse 3) To carry the Ankh (now the female symbol ♀️) was perhaps to symbolically carry that upper and lower understanding. As the upper matriarchal womb symbolised the fertile birthing of civilization, below, the now Christian cross is carried to place emphasis on the lower (later) "End Times" Father principle of the great cycle. Lord Ganesha, the elephant headed Hindu diety, displays a cyclical head to trunk symbolism and points to the Mother head of his matriarchal elephant society. In plain sight, Ganesha (like the elephant) wears God's cyclical nature on his face. A whole temple was dedicated to the ancient Egyptian goddess Hathor, who is the matriarchal "Uterus" personified. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGHQYa2AiKp5gZI "See all women as mothers, serve them as your mother. when you see the entire world as the mother, the ego falls away. See everything as Mother and you will know God." - Neem Karoli Baba