Wood Finishing - Dying Wood Versus Staining Wood

[@vivavoco]

Very helpful video on the differences between stain and dye - thank you! You're an excellent teacher.

[@knecht105]

Another excellent question, yes in fact you can mix dyes and stains provided they have the same base, ie water based or petroleum based. It often doesn't work out that well because the stain tends to eliminate the value of the dye, but in the right combinations, and colors it could be quite effective. Thanks for posting this . Colin

[@timhorton117]

I have worked with wood for a long time and of coarse purchase stains at the regular places like Lowe's od Home Depot or Ganal Lumber. I never new that there really was a dye. I always assumed that when someone said dye they meant stain. Kind of like for a vehicle a goose neck versus a water outlet. Both can be a thermostat housing. I have learned a few tricks over the years but this simple coloring application may just solve some of the train wrecks I have had trying to get that perfect finish I hoped for but never got exactly what I wanted. Thank you. I did notice a little mixing up of stain / dye bit you had my attention and with the show and tell, no problem. So thank you very much and I have some projects coming up that I will be trying dye on. Tim

[@knecht105]

+tim horton No prob, thank for your comments Tim

[@jameslawrence8734]

funny thing, where i'm from a goose neck is only a type of trailer hitch that sits directly above the rear axle. below is a link to a manufacturer who branded themselves after the type of trailer they manufacture. www.gooseneck.net/

[@knecht105]

Hi Ian, very good question. In your case a stain is best because your table is going to be outside and subjected to a lot of sunlight over the years. Stains hold up much better for outdoor applications. The only other thing to watch is if you are using Cedar wood, the oils in cedar are such that practically nothing sticks to it long term.

[@knecht105]

That's a great question, I have not done it but apparently you can mix dyes with alcohol. The advantage would be that this mixture would not raise the grain. If I were to do do it, I think I would try a small amount of 60% alcohol. As for using these dyes outdoors, the answer there would be generally, no, these organic dyes do not hold up as well under UV light from the sun, so you would probably have to re-stain every few years. Thanks for the question, great to have you with us. Colin

[@knecht105]

Thanks for commenting, Yes, you are correct that vinegar and steel wool would be a dye, vanish on the other hand is a clear coat topical finish. So dye soaks into the wood, vanish lays on top the wood. Colin

[@knecht105]

Well, dyes are just one alternative, some stains work better on some woods, and it depends on the look you want too. Great question about what woods do not work, and yes, some of the very hard hardwoods seem to take dyes less willingly. Pine is one of the woods that is easier to stain as a comparison. Thanks for commenting ... great to have you with us Colin

[@knecht105]

That's an excellent question, and I didn't mention it in the video. You could apply a dye over top of a stain but it will likely have little to now effect. You would need to sand most or all of the stain off, then dye the wood before you would get the desired affect. You could however, apply stain over top of a dye. Thanks for posting :) Colin

[@zenink2654]

Man, you rock! I have learned SO much from you, Mr. Knecht! In addition to being very knowledgeable, and open in sharing that knowledge, you also seem to be a very nice person, and relay information in a personable manner, which makes it much nicer to listen to and easier to get through my thick skull! Lol Thank you! Just so you know, I am not one to comment on KZbin videos... but I had to offer my gratitude!

[@JayGoldbach]

Thanks for the video. Just wanted to add that dyes can mixed with water or alcohol (or acetone). The latter come pre-mixed (at least in my experience). You can purchase them at StewMac or any of a number of other places. It's truly a pleasure to finish wood with alcohol-based dye. First, the alcohol flashes off almost instantly, so you can see your work progress without wiping. Second, no grain lift, which saves a lot of sanding, which I hate. Third (using a rag, not a brush) you can really control how much color by rubbing on additional layers. No waiting between coats. The chatoyancy ("sparkly-ness") of the wood is greatly enhanced. It's super easy to do. I recommend anyone doing an indoor wood project give it a try (they are not as color fast as stains). I use it to finish guitars.

[@T333TN]

Thanks for this comment. I got some "spirit" (alcohol) based stain as recommended to me for a little wooden stool I put together that is currently unfinished. I've only ever put a few drops of the spirit-based alcohol stain onto a scrap piece of wood. It seemed to go on really unevenly and blotchy, fully saturating one area and barely touching another. I'm scared of an uneven finish. I can't find any youtube videos on how to use this dye/stain correctly! Maybe I'll look under "alcohol" instead of "spirit". If you have any tips, I'd really appreciate it. I'm so confused!

[@knecht105]

Thanks for commenting, glad these are helpful ... great to have you with us Colin

[@knecht105]

Thanks for taking the time to comment ... great to have you with us Colin

[@knecht105]

Hi Tom, thanks for the question. It really depends on the project and the wood I am using and the look I want. If I want something a of a gloss, I will often use Shellac, if I am looking for more matte looking I might use Tung Oil or my favorite finish Osmo. Those are my preferences, other people might use varnish or lacquer. I just like finishes that are a bit more enviro friendly. Hope this helps Colin

[@knecht105]

That's a great question, and the answer is hard to define because it varies from wood to wood, and hard woods don't have the same penetration as soft woods. For depth of penetration, I actually cut into the wood with a sharp chisel and it appears that in the maple I used it was about 1/128 deep. When I did the same with the stain, you could see no real penetration. I would say pine or fir or similar woods would have the best penetration where oaks and maples would have less. Thanks again. Colin

[@Selandry1]

Great video! Thanks so much. Glad I found this before I finish my Birdseye drawer fronts. This really clears the air for me on when to use dye vs stain. Thanks again.

[@knecht105]

wow, birdseye fronts, maybe you will share some pics of your work on woodworkweb so we can all see :) Thanks for posting, looking forward to seeing your project Colin

[@geraldriebel2550]

What is the shelf life if dye? Thanks for the great presentation.

[@larcomj]

Found this 9 years later. super useful thanks!

[@migalito1955]

Nice comparison video. 10 years later it is a bit late to mention, but as stated dyes are not common to a big box store and I'll use in a pinch food coloring which works well. I've made exotic, in color, stains from both oil & watercolour tube paint and dyes from inks. I've never tried a fabric dye but why not.

[@knecht105]

Thanks for commenting, we appreciate your kind words Colin

[@knecht105]

These dyes were from Lee Valley Tools, are sold under their own brand name, but the dyes are made in USA. The brown dye says is Aniline Wood Stain, water soluble power, Honeytone Amber. The ebony dye was also from Lee Valley (and is probably the best ebonized treatment I have used so far, I was very happy with it). Hope this helps Colin

[@knecht105]

Thanks for commenting, great to have you with us Colin

[@munch15a]

its crazy and impressive you have over 10 years of quality vids

[@islandblind]

This is an excellent video. Non-Grain-Raising (NGR) dyes are available which help you to avoid the chief disadvantage of dyes. I like the Mohawk brand myself. This product is sometimes packaged as Behlen's Solar-lux. The dye works "like a charm" although it dries quite quickly so lap marks can be a problem in hot weather. Apply it in cool of the evening or use a retarder.

[@MaxBob24]

Thank you so much for this video. It finally solved the conusion I had for finishing wood. God bless you.

[@knecht105]

Hi Bobby, good question. In your case you really will need to dye before gluing, and I would even give it at least one coat of what ever top coat you are going to use as well. This will help protect the dye, and make it easier to clean up glue after too. This method of construction is called pre-finishing and I do use it from time to time. Sometimes it's easier to finish the wood before it is assembled. We would love to see pics when it's done :) Colin

[@knecht105]

You are right about dyes not being as color fast as stains, however this really means for things like out-door furniture, fences, house siding etc. Unless you will be playing outside in the sun, all day every day, you are fine using dyes (see Stewmac). On top of the dye, traditionally, laquer was used, and Stewmac sell that too, in a spray cans, very convenient. I personally would use Osmo, harder to find eco friendly, great wearing and easy to apply. Would LOVE to see pics of your banjo

[@dekurvajo]

i have noticed that its not always black and white. For example, rusted iron+vinegar is a dye, but also a stain. More over the wood colorisation caused by chemical reaction/interaction (oxidation) in between the wood and the acid. That is also commonly known, it depends on the type, the hardness, and the age of the wood as well. The rust will stay partly on the surface as well, so its not a dye, not a stain, both a little bit both, or something totally different. However everybody call it stain.

[@knecht105]

Hi Tommy, yes you will get lots of differing opinions, and probably all of them correct. When it comes to finishing there are many, many different ways. Good for you for doing this, it's a great way to get stated. We would love to see some pics when you get it finished :) Colin

[@knecht105]

Thanks for taking the time to comment :) Colin

[@TheMag625]

Thank you for a lovely and useful video! It helps a lot on my new project of the dining table! 👍👍

[@knecht105]

Great question, to be honest, I have not tried alcohol based dyes. I like 2 things about them, they dry fast and they won't raise the grain. What I don't know is how well they penetrate compared to water based. My only suggestion, if possible, would be to try some on a part of your project that is hidden from view to see how it works for you. Would love to hear you you make out, would like to see a pic of the project sometime too. Great to have you with us Colin

[@knecht105]

Very interesting, I have not even thought of trying it. I can't see why it would not work. Would love to see some pics of your finished work ... and hear more about how you use this. Thanks for commenting Colin

[@knecht105]

In that case I would suggest a Minwax product called Polyshades. It's a one step stain and finish and comes in a variety of colors. Probably available at larger home reno stores like Home Depot, etc. Check that out, I think that will work nicely for you

[@wesswenson4415]

Since the dye penetrates so much, does this mean that it is more blotchy? Particularly, will this make a wood more blotchy than before? Also, does it wash out the grain in plywoods more than a stain?

[@Caco357]

This would be a huge time investment as all the walls have this paneling. I've done it in stain, but not dye. Was in a beach house that sustained a flood years ago, and their pine paneling that was removed and stored. New owner found it and reused part for their great room. The salt over the years created a coating on the panels that not only whitened it but had crystal like specs blended with the wood knots. Have never seen anything like it but would like to recreate that whitewashed look.

[@dgwilson2]

If you don’t want to raise the grain you can use alcohol to desolve your dyes instead of water, which has very little affect on the wood, even helps penetration.

[@mikeanderson1316]

great teacher and lesson on dyes vs stain..now i know what i would prefer vs someone telling me what is better..thank you...i cant believe there are 42 dislikes...mmmm

[@RayAdamsCanada]

You are an amazing teacher. Now I know exactly the difference btw dye and stain. Thank you 🙏.

[@knecht105]

You're Welcome!

[@DevBone42]

Great tutorial! Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I learned a lot!

[@c8550067]

great information and presentation! I'm Dying to try it Thanks Scotty

[@barrynorman3906]

Thanks Colin. As always informative. Never used dyes but can see how much more of the character of the wood comes through. \\\\yes there was a couple of mix ups between the 2 but I understood. After all you are a woodworker not a pro TV presenter. The important thing is you got the message over. Enjoyed it.

[@knecht105]

Thanks Barry, for taking the time ... great to have you with us

[@knecht105]

Yes I see, it looks very cool. Any speaker boxes for guitars (or amps) have always been (good quality) plywood, of some sort, but these have all been quite large too like 24"x36"- to 48". There are some challenges in working with natural lumbers in large sizes, but you may be making something quite a bit smaller. My best suggestion would be to write this up in the forums on woodworkweb, there are many others who might have ideas and suggestions that could help, and I will see it there too. Colin

[@dalemanning4008]

You said the con of using dye was that it was water based and lifted the grain. Please keep in mind that you can use other carriers such as alcohols or lacquer thinner. I prefer Sherwin Williams haps compliant dye stain reducer. None of these will raise the grain and they dry much faster than water. I have used Lenmar and Sherwin Williams brand Sherwood dyes with the dye stain reducer and it worked well with no raised grain.

[@AllenReinecke]

I was wondering about the difference and now I know. Thx! I recently made a 36" US flag using strips of pine and couldn't get the depth of color (Crimson and Navy Blue) I wanted with Minwax tintable stain by leaving it on and wiping off. Extra applications didn't help. I first tried making my own stain and that was washed out also. I thought it was my concoction, but the Minwax was the same. Wood conditioner seemed to make little difference. I looked at dyes, but didn't know enough about them. In the end, I simply used a brush (like painting) to keep thinning out the amount of Minwax stain on the strips until I got the depth and transparency I wanted and then let it dry (even though the can says don't let the excess dry without wiping). After applying a satin finish, the flag came out awesome. I had scorched the wood prior to staining and hand-engraved the stars after. Now a friend wants one! I felt that I wasn't using the stain right, but since you've explained that it's really a surface coating, I'm not so worried anymore! I might try a dye in the future on other woodworking projects and see how that looks

[@knecht105]

Hi Caco ... hmmm, to be honest, without seeing exactly what your are working with, I'm doing a certain amount of guess work here. Before you do anything, if you buy, try doing just a small, obscure section first. I think I would do light sand with 120 grit for a prep. Both pine and maple will darken slightly with age and stain, even translucent will tend to block some of the grain detail, but it still might look great. I think all you can do is try it. Hope this helps, email if you need more.

[@knecht105]

This sounds like an ongoing interesting project. Pre-treating might be a good idea, but you are right that testing is the best way to see how things turn out. Keep in touch, am interested to see who this goes Colin

[@mustangsalley79]

Thank you for posting this sir, by far the most informative video I've seen. These are the type of woodworking videos I look for.

[@knecht105]

mustangsalley79 I'm glad this was useful to you, thank you for your feedback Colin

[@knecht105]

Thanks for posting, this is good information Great to have you with us Colin

[@knecht105]

Dyes are nice to work with, but I have never had the opportunity to use them on a wall. Also, I have never seen a white as a dye color, so that could be a challenge too. About the lightest I have seen is like a blonde oak colour, which would be nice on pine, but it's still not a whitish color.

[@reddboy1188]

Fantastic insight into the understanding of wood dyes and wood stains Keep up the knowledge sharing 👍🏽

[@knecht105]

Redd Boy Glad you enjoyed, thanks for the comments

[@EMTdrummer]

Nice job. Very clear with great support examples.

[@knecht105]

EMTdrummer Thanks for posting ... appreciate your feedback

[@ZomBeatBrainZ]

Very informative with excellent examples and explanation. Thanks

[@hansdegroot8549]

With the holidays I finally have time to watch some of your older videos. This one is very interesting. I did not know there was any difference. In fact I never heard the word "dye" before, I think. I don't know if the "dye" is only used in Canada or the US but I think the these to words are very often mixed up. I'm quite sure I have seen some videos on woodworking the last few years in which was used the word "stain" where, according to your "vocabulary" the word "dye" was meant. For example "staining" wood with tea, coffee, etc.

[@banjoroo1515]

Thanks, for the video and reply. The banjo will be very simple in design, so I wanted to make the wood a feature. I will send some pics when complete (still a long way off)

[@knecht105]

Not sure what you mean?? Brand ? I am using something that Lee Valley sells under their own name, hope that is what you meant, but if not, shoot me another note, Thanks for commenting ... Colin

[@SVisionary]

Very informative, thanks for the education!

[@andriiprychepa7023]

In Europe they have premixed nitro dyes , basic colours , chip and very fast drying , not lifting grain even on pine . You apply base lacquer cote , send the grain , spray dye and apply clear cote . Very fast process .Never used wiping stain back home , because couldn't even find it .Here is opposite , I can't find good nitro spray dye stain .

[@robboster]

Excellent video! Thanks very much!

[@Reximusprimebeta]

I have had some success with acetone as a dye carrier, it does not raise the grain and dries relatively quickly.

[@evaalex001]

I recommend appling dyes with a thick sponge. Squeeze the sponge dry afterward and use it to dry off the excess. Dye will also be lighter once it has dried so you might have to apply two layers (three if you want it really dark).

[@knecht105]

Thanks for the tip!

[@knecht105]

Well, it does depend a bit on the wood, so is it an electric or acoustic? and do you know what kind of wood it is? Off hand, my suggestion would be to go with a wood dye, if you go to Stewmac you find that's mostly what they sell for coloring wood. Top coating also depends on guitar, Lacquer is common, but Shellac is also excellent, as is Tung Oil. Let me know more about your project and can advise better can even email me through the main website Colin

[@Xaj33]

Thank you going for the dye.Very good video.

[@knecht105]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching.

[@ekins]

A couple of things you didn't mention are that there are also alcohol based stains that will help limit how much the grain is raised when applied. Also, a downside to dies that was kind of implied at the beginning is that they're not colorfast and will fade over time.

[@toddk9431]

Brian Ekins Hi Brian, I have search for hours looking for burnt umber dye I can’t find it anywhere. Rockler had a few others, eBay was a no go. Can you tell me where I might locate some? Many thanks, Todd

[@joelellis9480]

Very informative video. However, dyes aren’t necessarily water based. You can mix dyes with alcohol for example and have a different penetration and drying time. Valuable information was withheld in this video.

[@jakemoffatt1100]

Very informational, it answered all my questions! Great teachings.

[@dralexmclean]

Just watched your video on dye vs stain and learned a LOT. One problem with dyes that I've found is the tendency to get lapping when trying to use dye on a large surface such as a table top. I"ve seen suggestions that using an HVLP gun to spray it works better on large surfaces. Any thoughts?

[@Caco357]

Considering purchasing a beach house where the the entire place is paneled with what appears to be pine or maple veneer paneling that is NOT sealed, the good news. It's smooth to the touch but not laminated. Its aged a medium oak color bordering on the blonde/red side. I'd like to see the knots come through and not lose the variation in grain colors, but go either white or off white. Should I be using a prep to make sure to get the top layer clean, and would dye be a better choice?

[@Caco357]

Thx for quick reply. Will e you a photo. Have done white stain on unfinished white pine paneling and it aged beautifully, knots and all, but dye sounds interesting.

[@TheYipYee]

Thank you so much for this video! I was trying to understand dyes vs stains and you made it clear and easy to understand.

[@urfckup]

very good video,thanks for sharing your knowledge and time

[@jerrysegal8822]

will dying a bookcase have no odor vs strong odor of wood stain?

[@Caco357]

haven't tested the wood yet but did learn that it's unsealed birch paneling (no poly coating) and it's been up for 30 years, so lots of sun and salty sea air absorbed over time. i'm thinking it will take on a really nice white wash as there's lots of variation and knots. been reading about water based stain, and from what i've googled pretreating is required...thought before i take on a closet to test?

[@knecht105]

It's really difficult to answer a question like this because it leads to many more questions before a recommendation can be made, like what kind of wood is it? what kind of a look are you striving for? Is this a valuable heirloom piece? do you want Gloss, Matte, Satin? Lot of different variable and many different combinations of finishes to choose from. My best suggestion would be to post something on the Forums at woodworkweb and I am out of room here already, sorry.

[@knecht105]

lol ... I love your description, yup ... why not give it a whirl. I would love to know what it turns out like, you may a great idea there ;) Colin

[@annharpercampbell3651]

Hi, thanks for your video. I plan on refinishing my pine wood floors - sanding them and then applying a light colored (white) dye (if it exists). I suppose I would then use a water-based protective finish. Do you have any advice? My goal is to produce a light colored floor - as light as possible - while maintaing the wood grain visibility. Thanks in advance for your advice.

[@ianlong9744]

Hey man, thx, very useful, I will probably be using dyes now more often. Thx.

[@wesswenson4415]

Can I use the dye first and then layer with a diluted oil-based stain on top? Are there any consequences? I know you shouldn't mix a sealer with a stain, but does it matter with dye and stain?

[@hugocontreras2764]

Awese video! Great detailed information as to what the difference really is! Thank you for sharing

[@knecht105]

+Hugo Contreras thanks for taking a moment to comment :)

[@MILL3482]

Thanks but note clay is not dirt; you can have clay in dirt but you can also have dirt without clay

[@universallyinsync]

Thanks, I will check it out. It's a 1970s mass produced piece with fake carved detail. I just want it to "blend" with what I"'m getting-mission style pieces in a warm tone plus I want an easy finish that not shiny and possibly low on the odor side while I do it. Whatever wood they used, it's a pale golden color with long striations in it and the top may be a thicker veneer. Thanks again.

[@universallyinsync]

Hi. You may have answered this previously but I stripped the paint (my mistake) and original finish (a dark brown stain on light wood, for some reason) off a dresser that I want to use as a buffet. Many hours of work! How do you "finish" a piece that you dye? Would an oil work or do you need a sealer? Thanks. ; )

[@icespeckledhens]

interesting discussion thanks James

[@josva0012]

Thanks A MILLIONS for your tips. Great videos btw.

[@knecht105]

Would love to see it when you get it done, if decide to invest in house.

[@tommytuck7819]

I'm currently stripping down a guitar and wondered which is best at adding colour but maintaining the grain of the wood?

[@HappyJibYear]

Thanks for the video! Getting that comparison is really helpful. I'd like to try an aniline dye on pine to achieve a dark finish, since I found it hard to achieve a more uniform dark on pine with an oil-based stain, even with a wood conditioner. Would you say that's the way to go on pine? Or perhaps dye first, then oil-based stain later? Theoretically, I think that could offer an interesting dimensionality and might make it come out more evenly. What do you think? TIA!

[@221Dw]

Great videos, very helpful. Thanks

[@blxcksxbbxth00]

that was great! super informative! im wondering about alcohol based dyes. I know they dry alot faster than water based but considering that im working with a very rare expensive antique, are alcohol based dyes a better choice?

[@banjoroo1515]

If dyes are water based, they are more likely to lift/change with weathering? I am building a curly maple banjo. While it is fairly safe in my living room, if I am jamming outdoors in the evening (or with kermit the frog in a swamp), the dye may be prone to weathering. Laquering would of course seal the wood, but I prefer a non-laquered finish. Would a hard wearing oil (eg tung oil) seal a dye from weathering?

[@Varcuri9898]

Great in-depth video on this subject. Fantastic demonstration that really highlights the differences in stains and dyes. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@knecht105]

Hmmm, that's a really good question, and I'm not sure of an answer for you. I assume you or someone is going to be smoking the pipe so I would have some concerns about ingesting chemicals through the wood. Don't know what to tell you, maybe more research, dying might be fine, but perhaps there are dyes that are made for this kind of project. Good luck with your quest, sorry we couldn't help Great to have you with us Colin

[@Thom3748]

knecht105: Love this demonstration. Now I have it clear the differences between dye and stain. What do you put atop the stain for a finish? How do you protect it since it is water based?

[@mikelilly7285]

I'm currently experimenting with concrete dye on maple guitar necks. Haven't sanded or anything so I don't know if there's any penetration or not. Seems kinda chalky but smooth at the same time.

[@shayhildebrand337]

Great video. It helped me a lot last year when I decided to build a desk! The ebony black dye turned out beautiful. Question though, I am in midst of building an outdoor pergola with (copper) pressure treated wood. Are dyes suitable for this, as well as outdoor? I plan to also seal it with a spar varnish for extra protection, plus I can polish it. I'd love to use this ebony dye again.

[@mrpoolplayer6379]

Nice article & presentation of differing processes, Staining & Dyeing. I want to know which process, Stain or Dye, is least likely to run or bleed or leech into an adjoining inlay strip, when clear coated. I am planning to dye some walnut to look like ebony & inlay the finishes strips of it, next to inlay banding of maple. I was also wondering how the stain or dye would effect it's gluing properties.

[@evanbarnes9984]

Thanks for the explanation!

[@david6chevy]

Hey Mr. Knecht, just lately I have used some black India ink to stain a fret board. What do you think about ink as a dye? Will it adhere to top coats of final finishes? Lacquer? Shellac? Varnish? Danish oil? Have you addressed this in a different video? Thanks! Your video was very good and informative to me!

[@johndugan3280]

Thank you! You mentioned the use of stains outside on a fence. Is an ebony dye also suitable outside or will it fade a lot? I'm thinking about staining a redwood deck ebony before sealing it.

[@lokyinphotography]

Thank you Colin

[@Tieball]

With a DYE do I still wipe it after application before it dries? Can a second coat of DYE be applied after the first application is dry if I want a deeper/darker color? If yes to a second coat, do I light sand between those applications?