Why Equity, Diversity, and Inclusivity Are Not Absolute Values

Friends, there is a healthy and necessary tension between inclusion and exclusion in any rightly ordered society, including the Church. Are equity, diversity, and inclusivity valuable? Yes, precisely in the measure that they are expressions of love; no, in the measure that they stand athwart love. To grasp this is of crucial importance in the moral conversation that our society must have.
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Bishop Barron on God, Equality, and the Founding of America: • God, Equality, and the...
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[@crekow]

Our public discourse is completely devoid of philosophical subtlety and wisdom. Thanks for this, Bishop Barron. Now that you've made this important video, please write these same thoughts down in a heartfelt letter and send copies of it to every university president and politician in the United States.

[@gerarddore2828]

Holy Rosary

[@ko7305]

Warchild, refugee and legal immigrant here. kina virus released to fk up the elections...millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues...evil know no bounds, 100% intentionally released...just to get one man out of office, one man they could not buy/control. I have seen what communism will do to stay in or get in power. Anything! Chinese killed 30+ million of their own for power less than a century ago. It was a crazy conspiracy theory that FBI smoked Kennedy and now we know it is true. It was a conspiracy theory that kina virus was manmade but now we know it is true. MSM/Big Tech working overtime to censor/ban. This was intentionally released to fk up US election and for the Chinese to get protesters of Hong Kong streets because if Hong Kong goes so do commies in China. Win-win for commies and US dems....millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues. Godless people will always create hell.

[@ritathoopul3879]

1:55

[@OlliHazard]

What many secular leftists don‘t get is that if you don‘t believe in God there are no fundamental values. In a random universe you can‘t even define what is good.

[@HughJaxident67]

*What many secular leftists don‘t get is that if you don‘t believe in God there are no fundamental values* What utter unadulterated and baseless crap. You believe in a deity that is indistinguishable from something that doesn't exist and have the temerity to claim our 'values' came from this genocidal, baby killing, vengeful, misogynistic, egocentric, homophobic monster? Humanity does not need to appeal to any external source to establish values, anyone claiming otherwise is evidently psychopathic as they posses no empathy. *In a random universe you can‘t even define what is good* Not everything about the Universe or life is just random, no surprise to find another theist who's scientifically illiterate. And we can and do define what is 'good' without any requirement to prize a god into the mix. We base moral evaluations on well being and human flourishing - there ya go! We now have a basis for a moral system which is necessarily superior to a set of moral pronouncements obviously written by men in a patriarchal society thousands of years ago.

[@ep4205]

@@HughJaxident67 "We base moral evaluations on well being and human flourishing - there ya go!" What you are describing sounds like utilitarianism which is merely one of many attempts at creating a "good" in the absence of an outside source of order in the universe. It can easily be twisted into justifying killing a recluse for his organs. (This is a classic ethics question similar to the trolly problem btw.) There have been a number of attempts at creating universal morality and "goods" without recourse to something outside humanity, but they all run into trouble. In the end all anyone ends up doing is promoting a set of cultural and social norms they consider of greater value than other cultural and social norms. The only approach that is even close is the evolutionary morality approach which sees ethics and morals as emerging from human evolution, but even this winds up problematic in the real world: different societies approach(ed) killing, and even pederasty in wildly differing manners some even viewing them as essential for a healthy, functional society. Frustratingly it is not possible to define a universal in the absence of something outside creation having established those universals. The original poster may have been mistaken calling the universe random but was generally correct. In the absence of an external anchor universals (aka fundamental values) are merely reflections of cultural norms.

[@HughJaxident67]

@@ep4205 *What you are describing sounds like utilitarianism which is merely one of many attempts at creating a "good" in the absence of an outside source of order in the universe. It can easily be twisted into justifying killing a recluse for his organs. (This is a classic ethics question similar to the trolly problem btw.)* Incorrect. The secular moral system that I allude to is based on well being and human flourishing, there would be no justification for killing a recluse (or anyone else for that matter) for their organs as such an action would directly compromise that individual's well being and therefore, would be an immoral action. *There have been a number of attempts at creating universal morality and "goods" without recourse to something outside humanity, but they all run into trouble. In the end all anyone ends up doing is promoting a set of cultural and social norms they consider of greater value than other cultural and social norms. The only approach that is even close is the evolutionary morality approach which sees ethics and morals as emerging from human evolution, but even this winds up problematic in the real world: different societies approach(ed) killing, and even pederasty in wildly differing manners some even viewing them as essential for a healthy, functional society* A secular moral system of well being is based on basic universal tenets, for example; 'life is preferable to death', 'health is preferable to sickness' or 'pleasure is preferable to pain' to name but a few. Now although not absolute in nature, we can make objective appraisals of any action in relation to these tenets. The system can and is refined over time to become more representative. Our morality is an emergent property of evolution, we have an excellent understanding of it through anthropology, population nucleation and cooperation dynamics. There are no 'wildly differing manners' concerning the tenets I listed, they are universal. *Frustratingly it is not possible to define a universal in the absence of something outside creation having established those universals* Of course it is! I've just explained precisely how we do it - nothing external is required at all! Moreover, if there is a god supposedly establishing these claimed universals, then how can you appraise if they are moral and correct? If there is a god, then these appraisals are necessarily subjective and arbitrary to this god's concepts of what it considers moral. Furthermore (and on the same note), I could then cite the Euthyphro dilemma and refer to the question Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz asked - "It is generally agreed that whatever God wills is good and just. But there remains the question whether it is good and just because God wills it or whether God wills it because it is good and just; in other words, whether justice and Goodness are arbitrary or whether they belong to the necessary and eternal truths about the nature of things." So which is it and how on earth could you know, but more fundamentally, if these decisions are based on the second horn of the dilemma, then god is irrelevant to morality and goodness, it is independent of such a deity. *The original poster may have been mistaken calling the universe random but was generally correct* I beg to differ and for the reasons I've outlined. *In the absence of an external anchor universals (aka fundamental values) are merely reflections of cultural norms* Just no.

[@ep4205]

@@HughJaxident67 First off, it looks like I misunderstood your initial point. My mistake. Also, let's not drag this out. Neither of us will ultimately convince the other in a KZbin discussion. I was simply looking for an interesting conversation, and I thank you for giving me one. If I am understanding correctly, you are proposing a system which aims to maximize the attainment of survival, health, and pleasure. Your definition would still struggle to balance the individual vs. social nature of the effort, but that is to be expected with any system. What is best for an individual is not always what is best for the wider group. "A secular moral system of well being is based on basic universal tenets, for example; 'life is preferable to death', 'health is preferable to sickness' or 'pleasure is preferable to pain' to name but a few." It looks like it is taken as a first principle that the pursuit of these is itself good. Otherwise, this is merely a statement of what is generally preferred by individuals as none of these hold true in all circumstances. The push for liberalizing euthanasia laws illustrates points where these are upended at times. "Now although not absolute in nature, we can make objective appraisals of any action in relation to these tenets." Which is the crux of the issue. You are still not left with absolutes or universals, but merely what in a given time and place is socially accepted as the best means of achieving those tenets. In other words, cultural and social norms. The fact that these viewpoints can be altered over time only proves the lack of a universal or absolute nature to the individual moral claims made at any given point on the timeline. As for Euthyprho's Dilemma and Leibniz' restatement and clarification of it I simply have this to say. It only matters if one is rejecting the traditional Jewish and Christian understanding of god. In these cases, God is goodness itself, and morality flows from God. As such, morality exists not because God commands it nor is commanded because it is good, but because morality conforms to God. In short, such viewpoints take God as a first principle that leads to the idea that what is moral is what best conforms to God.appear to be something of a first principle.

[@HughJaxident67]

@@ep4205 *If I am understanding correctly, you are proposing a system which aims to maximize the attainment of survival, health, and pleasure* No, I am postulating a system that maximises and protects well being and human flourishing, a system that begins with some basic tenets as fundamental building blocks. I don't know how you came to the above conclusion, quite puzzling... *Your definition would still struggle to balance the individual vs. social nature of the effort, but that is to be expected with any system* Why? A secular moral system protect the individual's and group's well being. *What is best for an individual is not always what is best for the wider group* Well being is well being is well being, irrespective of the individual or group dynamic. "A secular moral system of well being is based on basic universal tenets, for example; 'life is preferable to death', 'health is preferable to sickness' or 'pleasure is preferable to pain' to name but a few." *It looks like it is taken as a first principle that the pursuit of these is itself good. Otherwise, this is merely a statement of what is generally preferred by individuals as none of these hold true in all circumstances. The push for liberalizing euthanasia laws illustrates points where these are upended at times* These fundamentals are the basis to form a moral system built on well being, we can make objective appraisals based on these tenets when appraising any action, if the aim is to protect and maintain well being, then why would we look on that as anything but good? And no, it's not a statement of what is 'generally' preferred, they are tenets that are virtually universal, it's a little dishonest of you to characterise such things as 'general', what makes it a solid base is the fact they are universal. As for euthanasia, what gives anyone the right to refuse an individual of sound mind the choice to die? You would prevent a terminally ill patient in constant agony this final dignity? To shake your head and insist they endure more of the same agony? Based on what evaluation? Some lofty concept concerning the sanctity of life?' What life is this patient suffering? How is it moral to maintain such a state of affairs? "Now although not absolute in nature, we can make objective appraisals of any action in relation to these tenets." *Which is the crux of the issue. You are still not left with absolutes or universals* And neither is the theist because a) You cannot demonstrate any god exists, b) Cannot demonstrate why anyone ought to conclude that god is 'good' and c) On what basis you're making any such assessment. What the theist is doing is asserting there is a god and then asserting that means there are absolutes or universals when it comes to morality. Well, I've read the OT and I would suggest infanticide is not acceptable under any circumstances!! With respect to the murdering of all the first born in Egypt, god was killing infants because the Pharaoh irked him which is identical to your neighbour murdering your children because you pissed him off. I could draw upon numerous other examples of abhorrently immoral acts perpetrated by this god in the bible, slavery, genocide, conquest rape etc etc, but you get the point I hope - why would anyone appeal to such an entity as the arbiter of morality? *but merely what in a given time and place is socially accepted as the best means of achieving those tenets. In other words, cultural and social norms* When was there a time when the tenets I presented as examples were perceived any different from how we perceive them today? They are as pertinent today as they've ever been. *The fact that these viewpoints can be altered over time only proves the lack of a universal or absolute nature to the individual moral claims made at any given point on the timeline.* When do you think sickness will become preferable to health or death become preferable to life? These reflect the nature of our being, we will always prefer these things over the alternative with only the very scarce exceptions. *As for Euthyprho's Dilemma and Leibniz' restatement and clarification of it I simply have this to say. It only matters if one is rejecting the traditional Jewish and Christian understanding of god. In these cases, God is goodness itself, and morality flows from God* Which remains just an assertion - my question would remain WHY anyone ought to think or believe such a thing? *As such, morality exists not because God commands it nor is commanded because it is good, but because morality conforms to God* So you must consider slavery as moral then? Because that is the where the conclusion takes me.... *In short, such viewpoints take God as a first principle that leads to the idea that what is moral is what best conforms to God.appear to be something of a first principle* Which will always remain a subjective stance, in so far as what this god subjectively considers as moral - your argument necessarily leads to this conclusion. Of course, the OT clearly demonstrates this god is not an entity that bases its morality on our well being or flourishing but rather on the precept that 'might is right' - thanks, but no thanks - If I was omnipotent and omniscient I would immediately make superior moral assessments than this god apparently can. Of course, it is rather evident that the god of Abraham is nothing but a man made fiction, adopted from Canaanite polytheistic tradition and adopted and promoted to the 'one god' which conveniently chose the very same people who adopted it as its chosen tribe - rather self-serving and convenient wouldn't you say?

[@dusty_dietrich]

So much wisdom from Bishop Barron. If I ever become Christian and Catholic it will be because of this man's words and character.

[@evanf1443]

I was raised Catholic and continue to consider myself Catholic. I’ll admit there are bad actors but the best I can tell Bishop Baron is not one of them. From all I’ve seen he’s definitely a good example of what a Catholic should be.

[@ricardoaguilar7562]

we already said welcome to the church

[@danrocky2553]

That’s true for a lot of us here

[@teeny765]

Be not afraid!

[@KH-vp4ni]

The time is now

[@k-9mantrailing324]

I'm shocked KZbin allows such honest speech. Thank you Bishop.

[@isabelbaxendale5581]

+Robert, in just 10 or 12 minutes you have demonstrated the power of the calm, reasoned and lovingly humane Catholic homily over the secular social media spats and sound bites that are the cause of so much strife! Thank you!

[@williamfinch9858]

Equity, Diversity, and Inclusivity Are Not Absolute Values, but faith, hope, and love are. If you love only those who love you, why should you get credit for that? Anyone can do that. And if you do good only to those who do good to you, why should you get credit? Even sinners do that. It’s important to treat your friends well, but it’s the way you treat your enemies that truly define you. And if you have enemies, that means you’ve stood up for something, as the saying goes. Which is why making enemies is as necessary as making friends.

[@LostHorizon_]

"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

[@regis_red]

I think there's a confusion in the term, the way I say equality is in the sense that one life is not worth more than another. We are certainly different in our beings, attributes etc. but my life is not worth more or less than another.

[@Paladin_Strategic]

In today's common practice within many organizations and businesses, diversity, equity, and inclusion mean homogeneity, weighted outcomes, and exclusion. It's all about appearances and politics.

[@killianmiller6107]

There is a distinction between unity and uniformity, the latter being an affront to the beauty different cultures have to offer, the former being a virtue that can maintain truth. The Church itself does not demand uniformity, we have something like 26 unique rites with their own traditions which nevertheless are all unified with Rome.

[@helwrecht1637]

Unity is what God wanted at the Tower of Babel. Uniformity is why he confused their words apart

[@bdff4007]

The head of this Catholic Church provides no sanctuary of conscientious objection for its sons and daughters who are vehemently opposed to the forced and mandated imposition of these experimental vaccines at the expense of countless livelihoods and lives. Hierarchy have everything to gain financially and socially by putting their stamp of approval on this insanity. Informed consent was the ethical medical standard before this outbreak. We are being fed propaganda and driven like sheep.. Bishop Baron, why don' t you protect your flock from these wolves? Why ignore the biggest and most relevant issue in this very abstract talk? Can you dismiss conscientious dissent with a wave of the hand by ridiculing those who have sacrificed their reputations, jobs and livelihoods by calling them ignorant and uninformed, and " anti science." Many sacrificed dissenters are medical professionals who worked the hospitals and were once called heroes. They are being forced out of their jobs if they don' t submit and get " the jab. " Where is safe haven and sanctuary by saying "I'm Catholic"? You will be told that is not a valid religious exemption. Are there no real scientists informing the hierarchy? Are there too many financial inducements to keep your social services full to overflowing by the money people running this show?

[@user-qb6vv9qm1c]

@@bdff4007 what do you gain by denying Covid as an actual problem?

[@jaybell1390]

Father, The Entire Set-up is FAKE FAKE FAKE. Fake "friendships, community, relations, gatherings", I've seen people, act like if they're on a "friends" sitcom at a Café, people behaving like "Celebs" at the Mall, a Therapist I once Knew professionally was unrecognisable BECAUSE, his Entire face was Unmovable, he Botoxed, new teeth etc! Also, there are a few young people walking around with "theme" music.... and they're Not in This reality! If you Don't have 'em where you are.....they will be shortly in a City near..... You!

[@Cainus44]

@@user-qb6vv9qm1c Freedom.

[@zachariahsperry6393]

I might argue that equity (of opportunity, not the straw man equity of outcome), diversity, and inclusivity are not values but rather fruits of the justice and love elevated here. So to compare them all as values I feel is a bit misleading. So why do we have EDI offices? So that we can be specific in outcome goals. Justice and love are impossible to measure.

[@dianareed3364]

This has been an awesome clarification of something I couldn’t put my finger on for long time! Thank you Bishop Barron! Justice and love must prevail over everything else.

[@dominicmacandrews7436]

Thank you Bishop Barron. We need more of this preached and clarified in our confused world which is in desperate need of the Truth!

[@bennoenickx411]

What exactly is confused in this world that is in urgent need of a remedial “truth?” In this video, Bishop Barren sidelines the good in diversity and equity by claiming they’re not “absolute values.” Even though it is not possible to think up a value that is purely absolute without submitting to a lacking rationalism. Then he goes on to say that bickering over equity can create tyranny, yet in the same breath he advocates for this Aristotelian transcendent third. A transcendent third which he admits means a submission of cultures under a certain homogeneity. For some reason he fails to see the same tyranny in that idea. He even describes social expression as a clamoring for rights and prerogatives, like requesting rights is somehow valueless. And then there’s the river with the banks metaphor, he caps it off by saying a society of differing values and choices slows the river and makes it “lazy.” He never acknowledges where the powerful river is flowing or why a diversity of culture makes it lazy instead of more vibrant. Finally, he goes on to recite platitudes on inclusion and its value. Then takes a complete 180, saying that some culturally congruent groups should exclude other people because they might taint the drive and picture of the exclusive society and so on and so forth. He even brings up America as an example group with values that must exclude immigrants. When exactly did America change from an accepting group of all cultures to a uniform body of drive and morals? The truth is that it never did. The only limit to the ideal of inclusion should be the harmful inclusion of exclusionary people. Anything other than that should be permissible for a healthy and modern society.

[@ko7305]

Warchild, refugee and legal immigrant here. kina virus released to fk up the elections...millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues...evil know no bounds, 100% intentionally released...just to get one man out of office, one man they could not buy/control. I have seen what communism will do to stay in or get in power. Anything! Chinese killed 30+ million of their own for power less than a century ago. It was a crazy conspiracy theory that FBI smoked Kennedy and now we know it is true. It was a conspiracy theory that kina virus was manmade but now we know it is true. MSM/Big Tech working overtime to censor/ban. This was intentionally released to fk up US election and for the Chinese to get protesters of Hong Kong streets because if Hong Kong goes so do commies in China. Win-win for commies and US dems....millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues. Godless people will always create hell.

[@WhitePositive]

@@bennoenickx411 Diversity simply means fewer heterosexual Whites. Equity is a principle of law, not something you Antiwhites can take advantage of. No more White erasure of our Western civilisation and mores.

[@faithharbour]

Every time I watch one of the Bishop’s videos I can feel the noise and chaos being turned down. Thank you 🙏🏼

[@Hawka23]

I love this about Bishop Barron. And it's a good point you make. Many other more reactionary Catholic sites make it seem like the noise is turned up to 11. All I feel after watching them is anger, hate and frustration. Not so with Word on Fire

[@ding9633]

I feel the opposite

[@thomasnaeger8960]

Great short piece. I hope the church has more talks on this subject. While good meaning, we have come to over emphasize these values and already are seeing the problems the Bishop is describing...

[@markredman9173]

There’s also a difference between equality and equity, especially in the modern era. Equality meaning equal opportunity. Equity meaning equal outcomes.

[@jimmymillan7571]

Very true. He needs to define his terms in this respect. I thought he did a good job in the latter two.

[@henrymccarty7693]

Well, even though we distinguish between equality and equity in those strict definitions, it does not make any difference on the Bishop's point. Still, under that definition, equity is not an absolute value. Being equal in outcome is not good or right in all situations or all instances. The Bishop's point still stands correct, equity is not a fundamental or absolute value like love or justice.

[@SHASHIKANTPAL]

Barron & The Knowledge He Provide are of next level. We love it. 🇮🇳

[@learnbibleversethroughpict6027]

SHASHIKANT He is Bishop Barron 🙏🏼🤗🌸

[@williamcurt7204]

Perhaps it can be best understood by saying Inclusion is valuable right up until we try to include false or immoral things.

[@r3t34rkrl3kl]

It is Korea. In this society where communication is cut off, social absurdity is severe. Many young people experience injustice and resentment. So thank you more. Your message changes me for the better and spreads to the people around me. So now you are changing the world. I wish you eternal blessings.

[@OrionOodama]

I presume you're referring to South Korea. So you mean the K-pop and its global entertainment bloom are mere facades? In the Philippines, most youth wants to look like Korean celebrities -- or pseudo-Koreans, that is.

[@James32529]

@@OrionOodama Tell them to wake up and smell the coffee.

[@unpredictable913]

You should be the next Pope.

[@rafaelbarrera3601]

Wow, tremendous video. I am in HR and I have always wrestled internally with current DE&I culture and my faith. Now I am wondering, "Am I in the wrong field of work?" For the times..😅

[@michaelbrinson5881]

Equity and equality are not the same thing. The terminology changed from equality, or equal opportunities and equal before the law (think MLK) to equity, or equality of outcome, about two years ago. Equality is great and noble. Equity is evil.

[@markmainaonundu6442]

I think both Equality & Equity are means towards a certain end. What really lacks is that end .... So when we talk of equality we should put it this way: Equality of _______ This dash is what I think needs to be filled and I would suggest the following: Two things that are essential in human person are Rationality( ability to reject falsity) & Freewill(ability to claim freedom). These gifts of freewill & rationality are equal in all human beings So the equality we should be talking about should be equality/Justice of Freewill and Rationality If freewill is the faculty that claims freedom and rationality is the faculty that claims truth/rejects falsity- then the most fundamental end values would be: Human Freedom & Human Truthfulness.... Justice or equality statement should be: Every human claims Freedom & Truth by nature and so every human should give the other human person right to freedom as well as right to truth Lgbtq should consider a discussion on the truthfulness & integrity of humanity There can never be justice, love or equality without consideration of human integrity and human freedom

[@brisklyinapostchaise]

I opened the comments on this video to make the same point. Ignorance of the difference between equity and equality in one purporting to explicate a stance against extreme progressivism does not bode well for public discourse. The gentleman appears to enjoy the sound of his own voice.

[@alessandrorosborough7261]

Bishop, you are obviously well studied and dedicated to following Christ. That said, there are some things that I think you have overlooked. 1. There is a difference between equity and equality. It is important to understand and address this difference. 2. In trying to say that equity isn’t a core value you implied veracity to some social Darwinist ideals. I would be very careful about avoiding this, as the social application of Darwin’s theories have been considered erroneous for some time now. 3. You do not address how these three things interrelate, but address them all separately. There is a relationship of causation as well as dialectic relationships between these concepts. You kind of address this towards the very end, but I think you could have gone more in depth. Speaking of what you said I the very end, I was happy to hear you say that justice and love are things that we should all work towards and that the ideals of equity, diversity, and inclusion can be tools to that end. I really appreciated your video.

[@HaydenStephens515]

Bishop Robert Barron: Telling it like it is, since 2007! 🙏

[@casanow5833]

Clear thinking from a god-centered man... Is living in the spirit... Thank you for "including" us in the heart of our Lord, Good Shepherd.

[@danielburton1046]

We need this! Thank you Bishop Barron!

[@nickfrate4396]

Great wisdom on these topics, Bishop Barron. Wisdom like this is needed in today's confused society.

[@b.m.jmooren3973]

If you want to change the world, go home and start with your family. Mother Theresa

[@Syncopiia]

There are no absolute values. Everything we value is subjective, including your conviction to your religious beliefs. Subjectivity isn't a bad thing.

[@BishopBarron]

So slavery is not absolutely wrong? Just one’s private opinion.

[@Syncopiia]

@@BishopBarron A loaded way of framing it, but nothing is absolutely wrong, because there's no such thing as objective morality. Even if God exists, viewing everything across all of time and space, what would be deemed 'good' coming from that God is still a matter of their subjective interpretation of what good should be. Morality is definitionally subjective, no matter how omniscient the one expressing a moral view is. We consider slavery wrong inter-subjectively - as in, the bulk of us agree that it is harmful to living things, and should be stopped. This is how you view this as well, whether you appeal to scripture or not. You just have a different anchor-point for what constitutes good, that being 'in accordance with god'. I say slavery is bad because it hurts people and strips them of their freedom and bodily autonomy. I don't have to point to someone bigger than me to make that judgment for me. And while we're talking about the evil of slavery, why don't we talk about the myriad of endorsements of slavery in both the old and new testament?

[@mb4654]

Equity & equality are not synonymous. This is a common misconception. Equity refers to recognizing that reaching x level across all groups requires allocating resources differently based on a specific group’s circumstances. For example, reaching the goal of reading at grade level by the third grade will require a different allocation of reading skill development resources for children from homes where parents have advanced degrees vs children from homes w/ out a college educated parent. The resources cannot be equally distributed if the objective is all elementary school children in a school district reading at grade level by the third grade.

[@timothyunderwood7880]

Clarity in these confusing times is valuable. We must make a stand against the liars and those who lie about the lies. We must live not by lies.

[@estoyenelflowstate4412]

_'For God is the God of harmony, not confusion..."_

[@justanaveragejoe9416]

Actually those things are opposite of Christianity, at least by the powers that present them

[@stephenmerritt5750]

Hard to add to that explaination but here goes lol. There is a difference between facts and truths. Facts are not truths in of themselves but are participants in the truth. We hear a many politician throw around this word, fact, to away the electorate. Also, CS Lewis' essay on subjectivism comes to mind where facts about reality are replacing truths inherent to reality.

[@Marontyne]

I totally agree. However, opponents will just argue that DEI is an expression of justice and love. They just have a different idea of what those things look like.

[@rhwinner]

Boy, the Bishop must feel like the black sheep at the USCCB meetings.... 😏

[@emmanueluduji3489]

I want to study in your university

[@Benjaminy2k]

Barron for next pope?

[@mooseboy66]

The ironic thing about this video is that at my Catholic parish, they have the word DIVERSITY literally etched in cast concrete in front of the church. At our last liturgical conference our diocesan directors main introduction was all about diversity and equity. Doesn't line up with what the bishop barron is saying. Thomas Sowell says "Diversity" in itself is nothing to celebrate. It's our ability to overcome the inherent problems that our diversity present to us that we should be celebrating. In other words, celebrate what we have in common that unites us. For us Christians it's God.

[@markpaalman275]

Thank you Bishop! If only more corporate and government leaders would have a mature understanding of DE&I such as this.🙏✝️

[@hatzlmike1]

This is beautiful talking about the historical turn at the mall of monuments in DC ending in Lincoln. So wonderful. Thankful for being able to hear and see all of Bishops content.

[@trainerfjk6269]

Great job Bishop Barron! I love the example you took from that one scene in American Idol. I love these breif lectures you give.

[@margaretferrara1008]

Bishop, thank you for exacting this very vague non fundamental values. Truly I needed to hear this, and share it with so many. Praise God for you and your intellect. Your explanations are so simple and smart...

[@joemamapapa]

I want to thank you Bishop Barron for explaining / reinforcing the faith to people like me .. your teaching is totally rigourous hugely relevant and amazingly well delivered to the extent that they leave me in awe .. I unreservedly recommend all your videos and podcasts to everyone thank you again Joe

[@vincentwilliamcarmichael4257]

Thank you, Bishop Barron for your clear, concise, and thought provoking commentary. It's a joy to listen to and contemplate your words of love and wisdom.

[@andyzar1177]

Is exclusion fundamental to keep a cohesive society? or perhaps it doesnt accept change and is impatient? many world class singers were once told they had no business in music, including your own hero Bob Dylan, he was considered a terrible singer by many of his peers , even today..and yet, well you know the rest. Bob Dylan is not defined by his singing alone, it INCLUDES his writing and composition skills to get who he is.If poor Bob had gone to American Idol we might have never seen the view from " All along The Watch Tower", if Bob listened to Simon, we would all be rolling like stones down a cliff with no prophet for our times. What is beauty then? is Frank Sinatra's voice more beautiful than Bob's( Sure, like you often say), but who was the real game changer? who won the Nobel?.

[@kkluvdancey51]

Respectfully, I disagree. Diversity and unity are not mutually exclusive. In fact, you NEED diversity to unite towards achieving any noble cause - especially when it comes to representing the fullness of God's image and the Gospel. As Brene Brown points out, the opposite of belonging is fitting in. You cannot have true unity or belonging without diversity and authenticity fully intact. Presenting diversity as a separatist notion -rather than a celebratory, essential one - is the biggest threat to true unity...and humanity.

[@bkinn830]

An excellent articulation of the cuurent conundrum in which many societies in the west find themselves. Once there are no absolute and true values upon which to judge our actions, then chaos ensues. I dont know any society before which emphasized inclusivity as an absolute value. Even now it cannot be found because those countries which clamor "inclusivity is the way" exclude all those who don't take inclusivity as such. The wise in the worldly sense...

[@jimwalsh5940]

Well said Bishop. Clarity and balance are in great need today.

[@StevenNJones]

His points are well taken, however, they will be misinterpreted by those who seek to find an excuse to ignore or discount the importance of equity, diversity and inclusion in our society.

[@CMatthewHawkins]

Unfortunately, Bishop Barron confuses "equity" with "equality" when equity actually means fairness. While few rational people expect equality of outcome, all Catholics should be for equity of treatment and opportunity. In fact, Barron makes this argument in the examples he gives even as he says that equity is not a fundamental value. Another word for equity is in fact "justice," which Bishop Barron acknowledges as being "fundamental," so why not clarify his solidarity with those who seek equity while opposing the expectation of equality of outcome, which is something with which many of those with whom he thinks he disagrees actually share with him common ground?

[@BishopBarron]

Fine. If by equity you mean justice, I have no quarrel with you.

[@danielcastillo4537]

So is the paradise of Heaven for some or for all? This is what turns me away from the church and God.

[@BishopBarron]

It's for all those who want in.

[@jameskearney4100]

Bishop you have confused me. You use Equity and Equality the same way, Do they mean the same thing? It seems to be a recent thing. Only in the past year have I noticed this.

[@BishopBarron]

For me, the key distinction is between equality of opportunity (a good thing) and equity of outcome (a very dangerous thing).

[@jameskearney4100]

@@BishopBarron To be honest the only time I have really used the word equity was in equity in a home as an example. I never thought of it in other ways. Or heard it used in other ways. I guess I need to listen.

[@OrionOodama]

Another moving and insightful talk, feeding and answering my lingering realizations. As always, thanks much Bishop Barron.

[@Alexander_Isen]

That was a banger

[@surendirenparthasarathy9087]

Justice and love are also not absolute. Biblical god does not love animals and also animals do not have justice in the world.Their suffering and misery are uncountable and waiting for a day to be addressed.

[@tomlabooks3263]

It’s an appalling situation, dear Bishop Barron (and you articulate it in such a wonderful way). It’s probably brought to us, among other things, by 60 years of TV, media and by the subconscious collective reaction to WWII. But it’s only going to get worse before it gets better.

[@jamelyaltaear4045]

Amen

[@Lavos243]

My question is how does the idea of "natural inequalities" apply to disabled people?

[@regis_red]

Disabilities are the result of accidents, it's not the same as one person being taller or being able to sing better than another.

[@davidjohnzenocollins]

@@regis_red Nevertheless, a guy in a wheelchair has no business trying to get on a football team.

[@regis_red]

@@davidjohnzenocollins Maybe on a paralympics team?…

[@MatthewWayne33]

The Bishop nails it 💯

[@MiguelArcangel12]

Well done by the Bishop. I would add to this "tolerance."

[@diannefitzmaurice9813]

Ah tricky! While this is a distinction in principle and philosophically, it can be very dangerous to the social order to perpetuate this distinction at the expense of its intent, and become a rationale for all kinds of unjust discrimination. It is good to remember that these values are substantive qualities built into the formal conditions of the law ie justice, so as to obtain equality. In the past all might have been equal -- before the law -- but not under it, and so could be denied justice in the equal protection and benefit of the law. If justice is an absolute value it is not merely formal or an absolute in principle, it must extend to the values that substantiate it without exception ! Which means, that if and where some accommodation is necessary to fulfill the formal principle, this must be made. Otherwise the exceptions can go on ad infinitum. As an example, a blind person may want to become a pilot, but currently there is no application of the justice principle for this to be possible in employment law without endangering others. So it is considered just to deny this opportunity in this circumstance. Some other requirement takes precedent. This is what it means for 'inclusion' not to be an absolute -- in principle- as the distinction being made in this discussion recognizes. But it doesn't follow that this will always be the case. Right now planes can almost fly themselves and accommodation to this situation might very soon be a reality . This would very much change the nature of the requirement for justice in this situation and for example, permit a legally blind person to be a co-pilot. So Bishop Baron's example of the girl that wants to sing but doesn't accomplish this well, might only require some accommodation like singing lessons to meet the conditions for justice and love in this situation. And love is where we fall short in all the circumstances to meet the needs for equality. Love might be an absolute value but its requirement as an absolute demands something more than sluffing off equity, diversity and inclusion as less than absolute values. The demands of Love means that there are no exceptions. No one can be left out - excluded -- or not deserving of equity because of a difference, perceived or real. So it means that we must find solutions the pressing problems of our society that are a consequence of these kinds of distinctions. Religion is a protected value, but the Church is not immune from the substantive application of the absolute demands of justice and love. Many cultural practices and patriarchal values from the past squeak in under such a distinction and are perpetuated, although discriminatory in the current order of things. Such excuses are rampant. While Parmenides and Heraclitus from the philosophical tradition, helped us to understand these distinctions in principle, it is Jesus through the Holy Spirit that will guide us through the current social upheaval of the old order so that the requirements of justice and love can be met in the circumstances that demand it. Love your talks Bishop Baron and especially when it hits to the heart of philosophy, but this one is not an easy out with a focus on the distinctions. The challenge is to move us to a new understanding of them with these values in tow.

[@OneCatholicSpeaks]

While listening to this video, a couple of thoughts came to mind. It seems like more specifically our society is conflating inclusion and love. On the more general level, I agree with everything Bishop Barron said. However, I think this confusion is fully intentional by its architects. It is intentional and I would go so far as to say inspired by the Devil specifically because it undermines love.

[@iqgustavo]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🏛️ Equity, diversity, and inclusion are valuable but not absolute values; they must participate in more fundamental values like justice and love. 01:30 📜 Equity is valuable, but not an absolute value; compelled equity could lead to a totalitarian system and overlooks natural inequalities. 04:01 🌍 Diversity is valuable, but not an absolute value; one-sided focus on diversity might lead to a permanently divided society and lack of shared purpose. 06:46 🤝 Inclusion is valuable, but not an absolute value; absolute inclusivity contradicts the reality of some level of exclusivity in defined societies. 11:38 👥 Fundamental values are justice and love, as they are valuable in every circumstance; equity, diversity, and inclusion are valuable when participating in these fundamental values. Made with HARPA AI

[@AliciatheCho]

Thanks! This was helpful

[@humanfromconception1195]

I enjoy your content Bishop Barron. I don't believe leftists are using the term 'equity' as interchangeable with 'equality'. Not that you are necessarily trying to have dialog with the marxist left, but 'equity' as used by such as these (so far as I can tell) mean systematic discrimination against members of one ethnic group intended to remedy a historical injustice arising from said group & in favor of another group(s) who has historically suffered at the hands of the former group. This is without regard to individual responsibility as is consistent with leftist thinking that considerations about individuals is not relevant by comparison to groups. Oi, was I overly wordy?

[@tylerwhaley4872]

who are these "leftists" you speak of

[@johndd8186]

@@tylerwhaley4872 Watch CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS or listen to NPR. Can't miss 'em.

[@tylerwhaley4872]

@@johndd8186 Didn't know anyone left of center was a "leftist." I'm center-left, am I a leftist marxist socialist even though I'm a Catholic?

[@erinsymone1645]

You talk about the "marxist left" as if left wing people aren't also watching this channel. It's hard to take the claim that the right/religous right are truly welcoming/somehow more open to listening to other perspectives when you read comments like these...

[@sweetroscoeful]

Equity and inclusion would demand that everyone that would pay hundreds of dollars to Andrea Bocelli would be compelled to pay the same to hear me sing an opera as well....but this would be pure torture, a travesty of human rights. My singing is that bad....

[@TallisKeeton]

yes becouse love means also correcting the errors of those we love. if all can be jugde as good nothing is realy good becouse there will be no wrong, if all can be jugde as good singer then no one can be judged as the best singer, if all of us are extraordinary then no one is truely extraordinary. and there is nothing to strive for, to hope for, to work for, to create for. so whats the meaning of life without setting goals and adventures to seek the goals? whats to life for without the need to be better?

[@paulroscelli2545]

All due respect Bishop, you’re confusing the two terms equity and equality. Equality is, in fact, what you described. Equity however is about outcomes. Equity, in the sense that these people use it, is used to argue for some sort of fairness and or redistributive justice. A justice that often results in those who did not commit the sins paying for sins of the past. This is not an equality story. However, you are correct that the only way this gets imposed is by a totalitarian regime

[@BishopBarron]

Present discrimination or injustice is not a proper way of dealing with past discrimination or injustice.

[@mozphet3030]

That’s what I was getting from his explanation ?

[@h00sha]

While the Bishop is technically correct about justice and love being more absolute, there's a missed opportunity here. In fact, the values in question ARE fundamental in the sense that they do a great job of describing the Godhead. Father, Son and Spirit are perfectly equal, perfectly distinct (diverse) and seek to include us all in their love. The world should be COMMENDED for its attempt to mimic these values. Only then will the door be opened for us to remind them of the original from which they derive their copy. Simon Cowell's approach be damned! Bishop, while your commentary on equality and diversity felt a touch reactionary/defensive to me, your insights to inclusivity were excellent! My feedback is offered with the best of intentions and is meant only to fine tune what is already a very valuable lesson. Thanks for putting yourself out there. Ave Maria!

[@cheeseburger347]

@@BishopBarron how are you defining present injustice? Societal problems must be dealt with at a societal level and there will be times individuals feel more pain from societal course corrections and yet it will be just. Like CS Lewis said, “A sum can be put right: but only by going back till you find the error and working it afresh from that point, never by simply going on.” (The Great Divorce) That is going to feel like “injustice” to people who have unknowingly received advantages from hundreds of years of injustice and who think they’ve earned everything in their lives.

[@luisoncpp]

​@@h00sha diversity as a value doesn't even make sense. All people is different in one way or another, so any group of people is automatically diverse. Nowadays many people is paying attention to the appearance, ancestry and sexual life of others to determine if they are _diverse_ or not, which is profoundly discriminatory. I agree that there are indeed many places where people is unfairly judged by their appearance or their ancestry(btw, "race" is not even a real thing) and it's necessary to take action to prevent that kind of stuff from happening, but imho the _solution_ is only making the problem bigger. Highlighting superficial differences only reinforces the(false) idea that those differences are relevant.

[@jimmymillan7571]

Well delivered critique of diversity and inclusivity as absolute values; the critique of equality needs more explanation.

[@DrEMichaelJones]

When the say "equity" they don't mean "equality" and they don't want "equality."

[@signlanguage7624]

LOS ANGELES NEEDS TO BE PURIFIED!

[@user-pc8ee8sx7v]

Please differentiate between equality and equity. They're not the same.

[@katkath4996]

Where would France be w/o “libérté, égalité et fraternité” Faith isn’t a Tupperware party.

[@iremizmizar882]

Hi gracias por poner subtitulado en español darnos la oportunidad de entender más, se que es un gran esfuerzo gracias 🙂. Algunos se entienden porque usted habla despacio yo lo veo en Guatemala centro america

[@mikee6220]

Yes yes yes

[@NewNoise1]

Bro this catholic bishop is awsome. One thing that I have notice this semester is that seeking knowledge, learning and the act of study are common in the church. Its like christ wants us to be smart. Its like taking your brain to the gym. You know the priest study for like ten years. Some get send to the gregorian univercity. They speak multiple languages. A lot of study and reading.

[@hibernianwolf1711]

Thanks Bishop Barron

[@petertrausch3245]

Thank you Bishop Barron, young student teachers such as myself are bombarded with these ideals all the time like they’re the highest goods. Your commentary sheds much needed light on this.

[@tiamdaeoconghail7770]

Very helpful Bishop Barron, thank you. t

[@smokierobinson1061]

Equity and equality are not the same thing. Quit pretending they are.

[@yeahchband]

I think of equality as everyone has the same thing, and equity as individuals having what they need. Past and present discrimination often creates situations where an individual may not be able to succeed in life, no matter his or her talents. It also creates unearned advantages for those who were born with the right set of attributes. So what is the answer? Continue to allow generations to achieve less than they could, if not given what they need?

[@joserodriguez5211]

I understand the nuanced point you're trying to make, but, unfortunately, you are giving cover to those who harbor racism and prejudice in our day. Simply look at some of the comments here to have an idea of how people are celebrating what they believe you to be saying: diversity, inclusion, and equity don't matter. That's not what you're saying, but that's going to be the takeaway. I'm not sure why you've decided to become a culture warrior in recent years, but it is disappointing.

[@BishopBarron]

No, no. That's not fair. I meant precisely what I said, no more, no less. I have no control over how people might choose to misinterpret what I'm saying. If we can never make a nuanced argument out of fear that we might be misread, then we'll never advance toward truth.

[@elitisthavoc3949]

Fulton Sheen pray for us.

[@breadwineandsong4014]

Part of the problem here is that the current culture has no belief in God, or its beliefs about God are so flawed {often petty and ridiculous understandings that limit the characteristics and qualities of the Creator or the Universe to some playground bully who takes delight in causing everyone their miserable life's circumstances "because if he were really almighty and omniscient and all-loving, he would never allow (insert whatever is wrong with your life here) to happen me} that we cannot communicate in agreed language what God's own self-revelation in Jesus Christ has revealed, and so, there is no "absolute". Instead, we live with either complete unbelief or we see God as whimsical, flighty, unpredictable, and changing as Pope Francis.

[@alexeialeksandr7606]

I don't care if my workplace is diverse, I do care if it's corrupt.

[@josephtravers777]

Or hateful

[@busterbeagle2167]

Bishop, you truly are a master of your craft

[@STRENGTHFROMABOVE]

“And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.” - Hebrews 11:6 The Good News: Have faith in what is not scene, for God rewards us for our belief in him and his rewards when we don’t need to see to believe.

[@buratchini]

You got that right!! That's all part of the Catholic teaching.

[@joehay5094]

I find parts of this a bit muddled. He seems to use the terms equity and equality interchangeably and while they can be synonyms, equity tends more towards the idea of fairness or equal treatment. Doesn't the idea of justice, which he says is a fundamental value, cover that? So why is equity not a fundamental value? Equality is different, certainly, if we are talking about equality in terms of an individual's skills, intelligence, physical gifts, etc. Those types of inequalities are simply facts at a certain point in people's lives, so I don't think we can make equality in that sense a value, since it's impossible to achieve. However, as far as skills and intelligence go, science has demonstrated that the impact of environment and upbringing on those characteristics is very strong and our choices as a society do have an impact on an individual's environment and upbringing. So, I'm not sure this distinction he makes between justice as a fundamental value on the one hand, and equity and equality as secondary or non-fundamental values on the other, is really as clear as he seems to suggest, if we apply them to concrete situations.

[@chrismackenzie4841]

I respectfully disagree. Equality is about equal status, opportunity, and rights. Equity is more about equal outcomes...the term equity is most often used in terms of the value of a company and the number of shares a company makes available, with each share representing equal value. If we talk about actual inequality we're talking about people who have less or privileged rights or an underclass who is unable to mingle/marry/live with a class above them, whether by social pressure or law. If we're discuss ending inequity, we're trying to ensure people have the same outcomes.

[@joehay5094]

@@chrismackenzie4841 I appreciate the respect, Chris. The definition of equity for me is not the fundamental point. My point was that social and environmental factors contribute significantly to inequalities between individuals and groups, and therefore the unequal outcomes, as I'm sure the bishop would agree, and I'm sure he would agree as well that our choices as a society have an impact on those social and environmental factors. If we as a society are making choices that put certain individuals and groups at a disavantage, then that's an injustice. That's why I said this distinction between injustice and inequality is not as clear in practice as he seems to suggest.

[@ajessm]

Well said. I like the stong philosophical /theological underpinnings.

[@bradenwenzel7597]

Thank you Bishop Barron. Videos like this give clarity to thought in this time of moral confusion and great division.

[@sshealy1]

Every American should watch this video. Period.

[@splinterbyrd]

Hmm... not sure the Bishop has quite got it right here. I come under "minority" on two counts. All I know is that I have a much happier life now than when a school Leaver especially re employment, as my two "minority" issues are now acknowledged, and government has encouraged employers to employ us. But the Bishop's not being all that specific and it's all open to interpretation.

[@BishopBarron]

Tell me exactly where you think I’m wrong.

[@splinterbyrd]

@@BishopBarron You're right that no polity can accommodate all shades of opinion and lifestyle, as these often impinge on each other. However the diversity imperative is not the imposition of *uniformity.* It simply seeks to redress imbalances and unjust social conditioning. Eg, elderly people can make just as good employees as other age groups. Someone's sexual orientation rarely has any bearing on their ability to do a particular job. Worse, is when minorities are excluded from particular sports. It's notoriously difficult to be gay in eg. football - and gays were often conditioned into feeling it was not approachable for them. So that's what the diversity imperative seeks to redress, by ostentatiously encouraging gay men into team sports, women into the construction industries, and the elderly and also the mentally ill back into employment. However, having rerun this video I think we agree that none of us is born exactly the same as each other.

[@MZONE991]

balanced and nuanced, Love it

[@giuseppesavaglio8136]

Justice is what, we as a society, fight hard to attain with all being treated as fairly as possible. Love is familiarity and empathy with kind and like kind beings. No god needed here. Move along.. Move along. The church is against these in principle.

[@elisaastorino2881]

You hit the nail on the head. These social justice warriors have developed a philosophy which lets them feel morally superior without the inconvenience of belief in God and the responsibility that comes with it.

[@ivonmendizabal8674]

May God keep giving the wisdom to tend his sheep God bless you and keep you safe

[@jesuslovesyoulove9991]

I am sure Bishop Robert Barron you know the story of Tomas Edison I say Tomas becouse he was a Mexican born, Usa change all from him to make it look like Usa look alike and Edison people were telling him that his idea of the light was wrong he try it more than a thousand times that same for other human goalsthey just have to keep trying until they get better they might not be number one but they will achive success if they keep on their goals and ideas good ideas not evil ideas we all will succed eventually

[@gugatena4990]

Saludos afectuosos desde Cd de Mexico

[@FizuliAbilov]

Utilitarism says it is integral good values

[@Thomas-dw1nb]

Brilliant! More of this type of discourse, please.

[@carlosvillarreal6743]

Bishop Barron, what do you think on the proposed changes to the interior of Notre Dame cathedral? I think you would be a much better consultant to the restoration process of the cathedral which you particularly love.

[@pscjr7921]

A very timely and much needed message. Thank you, Bishop Barron.

[@aryanz66]

never thought I'd devotedly listen to a Bishop, Thank you Bishop.

[@Thagomizer]

Equity, Inclusivity, and Diversity are valuable in the same way that money is valuable. Not as ends in and of themselves, but because of what they have the potential to "buy".

[@elisaastorino2881]

And these days, they buy a lot...