WordPress vs WP Engine - It Just Keeps Getting Worse!

[@papercraneca]

I'm a WP Engine user - honestly didn't even know about auto-updates being removed. That's a massive issue. The bigger problem here though is just how massively childish this whole thing is. Does it sound like WP Engine, now a VC-run profit-driven conglomerate, is being selfish and taking considerably more than they're bringing back to the WP ecosystem? Yes. Did the WordPress legal language allow for that type of usage? Also yes. We use WordPress because - for the most part - we don't have to worry about boneheaded decisions by upper management that affect our daily lives. It's open-source, so I don't need to be concerned about them jacking up prices without alternatives or any handful of other things that we've come across withour proprietary service providers. Except, now apparently that's not the case. Automaticc has now shown that they're willing to completely screw over a huge swath of users - opening sites up to tremendous risk - because their founder is apparently a child that's angry that somebody took advantage of their license. Not an indicator I look for when we're looking for service providers for our clients - it definitely makes me rethink our software offerings.

[@pineapplesoda]

Good points, but remember, both sides are backed by VC money.

[@grantmeagher]

Amen.

[@MeppyMan]

His whole attitude doesn't pass the pub test in my view.

[@thewaterbear]

Isn't the point of this stunt to show that WP Engine just doesn't care? They could just update their customers sites themselves. They could also just change their name.

[@RR-ok4wz]

Yep. All of what you said. Matt is a petulant child. F him.

[@jensgur]

Everone: talking about how to make WordPress better and future proof. Matt:

[@polarxta2833]

Matt - who made it, and made it free. Imagine he charged $100 a year to use it.

[@nick90000]

So 200K customers and 1.5 million sites affected, how is this helping the reputation of WP??? Wix must be so happy this week

[@bellatrixhp7]

Wix, Webflow and Shopify indeed

[@ryangreen45]

How? It would be much easier for a WP engine customer to switch to another hosting than to scrap the entire site and build it on Wix.

[@ocratest]

Allot (like shedloads) of WP engine users just won't do anything (manually update plugins or move hosts) & this could cause Wordpress hacked sites to skyrocket - further damaging Wordpress's reputation. Sorry no other way to frame this, this move was petulant and damaging as hell.

[@peterharper3861]

@@ryangreen45 The issue is that you're reliant on Matt not then going after the other hosting company as well. He SAYS this is a specific case, but is it really? Can you trust this man? I don't think so at this point, especially after the asinine changing of the trademark T&C around use of "WP".

[@a1webguy]

The terms "managed Wordpress" and "hosted Wordpress" should not be allowed to be trademarked by anyone, especially "hosted Wordpress". That's a slap in the face to all existing hosting platforms. As for WP Engine removing the news widget, that's permitted under the GPL license, and is unnecessary to a functioning Wordpress site.

[@MarcelHeiniger]

I'm not a lawyer, but I know that big brands lost their Trademark wars, when the other proved their use of the Brand name before the Landmark registration. Typical story was IKEA in Indonesia, the small factory won against IKEA in all instances, IKEA had to pay big $$ to compensate the company for changing the name.

[@davidorf3921]

Sounds like a 2 year old having a tantrum

[@alain_laroche]

OMG Rich people stupid drama that affects simple users and businesses

[@WPTuts]

First world problems eh?

[@nick90000]

Jeezes, think about all those WPEngine customers now in trouble. What would stop Matt from trying looking for flimsy reasons to do the same to all the other hosting companies that are competitors to Automattic's hosting services, unless they pay a fee, sounds a bit like extortion to me, but I'm not a lawyer 😆

[@fasn69]

You are absolutely right. It is extortion. Matt should be reported to federal authorities.

[@LindaShum]

Yeah I just built 4 sites on WPengine, the sites run so much better than on Bluehost or ipage.

[@shabtikaplan]

The way Wordpress is treating its fellow business makes me sick. I thought WordPress was all about helping people but it seems like they also like to spit in the face of companies that sponsor their events

[@bigframedigital]

It's not WordPress, it's just Matt.

[@polarxta2833]

Its free for the people, not the profiteering Corporations. Not supporting the project is why CentOS died.

[@davidspot191]

If this escalates, it would have a huge negative impact on WordPress. The reason many still use wordpress is just because of the contributions made by other devs and companies to make it a great CMS. Once that is negatively impacted on a large scale, WordPress becomes nothing and disinterests many users. If they take out every other plugins, themes, page builders, and we're to stick to wordpress alone (Gutenberg) it's just something else and the improvements on it so far is really poor. I hope they resolve this rather than making it worse cause this action from Matt actually means a lot and can make wp users naturally dislike wordpress.

[@SigururHolmGunnarsson]

As I mentioned in another space, I foresee one positive outcome from this drama: due to the ongoing conflict with WP Engine, WordPress might finally integrate all or most of the features of Advanced Custom Fields (ACF) into its core. After all, WordPress and its team can’t be too happy that one of their most valuable plugins is developed by what’s now considered public enemy number one.

[@vaughanprint]

I wouldn't hold your breath on CPTs/customfield being native to core. They just aren't that imaginiative and if you watched Ann McCarthy's last creators episode the discusion there kept being steered back to WP as a blogging and publishing platform.… the mind just boggles.

[@PedroMPerpetuo]

So, as a heavy user of ACF, long before acquired by WPE, what does that mean for the ACF updates? I am not using any hosting service etc from WPE... just AFC on multiple projects... I am confused...

[@thomassaunders225]

@@vaughanprint I suppose that you mean there is no UI to add CPT and custom fields since there are native core php functions to add both. Developers have been doing it since nearly the beginning of WordPress. The developers handbook shows you how to do this fairly easy. It's not pretty, but it is most definitely functional.

[@zacharyelkins671]

They did make an addon that allows custom field and CPT creation from within Gutenberg. However, they confirmed that this is essentially a "pet project" and won't be integrated into WordPress core.

[@markjszymanski]

7:15 It's just "TUTS" now 😂😂😭😭

[@WPTuts]

It could happen.. lol

[@OGCdigital]

@@WPTuts "Tuts for WP" would get you in the clear 😂

[@mistergeko]

VPTuts, there u go, it's fixed now. No confusion 😂

[@VLoffman]

This made me chuckle

[@RR-ok4wz]

@@mistergekoVVPTuts could also work. 😂

[@nick90000]

Mobster tactics: come host with us, we'll protect you...from us.

[@kevinroberts3789]

Trying to copyright "Managed WordPress" is absurd. It's akin to Ford telling a local garage they can't advertise themselves as "Ford Specialists" or that they provide "Ford Services".

[@areimann]

Yep. It's a strange move from Matt.

[@RichardBarratt75]

I remember Matt Mullenweg throwing his toys out of his pram over the Thesis Theme back in 2010 - nice to see he is still as petulant as ever!

[@MarkWilliams77]

Yes I was there for that - was building sites using Thesis Theme and Genesis - good ole days when it was a lot easier process to build sites than the current hot mess we have. He showed his true colors then and he hasn't changed.

[@nick90000]

Matt is undercutting one of the main reasons why we choose WP in the first place, will full featured WP in future only be allowed on Automattic hosting or other approved hosts?

[@polarxta2833]

Only WPengine is breaking trademark and trust. Others who do what WPengine does pay a license. WPengine will not. Hence why this is on their head.

[@thereal_JMT_]

I think Matt Mullenweg should step down as the CEO, this is getting ridiculous

[@MeppyMan]

And anticompetitive. This man child is bonkers.

[@RR-ok4wz]

But he won’t. He is a thin skinned baby.

[@bigframedigital]

Not just WP Engine. The sister company Flywheel is also affected. Matt seems to have blocked everything WP Engine related.

[@Chris...S]

If WordPress would put this much effort into getting the core to 2024 standards. Users wouldn't have to rely on 3rd parties for basic functionality.

[@SPJohnson]

How many government websites are hosted on WP Engine?

[@Objectified]

The response I've seen on social and among the WP-related groups I'm part of has been nearly universal: if one man can, on a whim, do this to millions of WPE sites, he can clearly do it to sites on any host. And perhaps to any site. And if he is willing and able to do this, what else is he willing and able to do to our company/enterprise/non-profit-critical site?

[@polarxta2833]

You think Matt is one man ? You don't think he has an army of lawyers ? He runs a massive business and you are benefiting directly from his personal choices with WordPress to date. But the Venture Capitalists are good guys now ?

[@thewaterbear]

But like, do what? He didn't break them, he didn't shut them down. He just stopped offering to provide a single automated service to them for free. WP Engine can automatically update them themselves. Clients can still update manually. He didin't turn off updates. He turned off free automatic updates to the for profit company that is doing everything possible to bamboozle users into thinking it is officially associated with WordPress.

[@querela92]

​@@thewaterbear yep, assuming you get stuff for free forever is just a dream. It's their own fault if their business model is like this. If you want everything for yourself without contributing back then don't blame others if you need to do everything yourself, like updates etc...

[@KeywordManagement]

Great info. One thing for sure that this pissing contest will be bad for the end user and those of us who have been long time Wordpress users.

[@journeytoaphotograph]

Why do you feel that? Also, Capital P dangit!

[@KeywordManagement]

@@journeytoaphotograph - I think Wordpress getting involved in a public pissing match with WPEngine is a distraction from making sure Wordpress continues to be a leading CMS solution. Wordpress / WooCommerce was leading e-commerce solution for a long time and they've lost marketshare to Shopify which I don't feel is a better solution.

[@mrbrown5978]

For a company that earns billions of dollars thanks to the hard work of those who provide free software to users (you, the user-not the corporation), it’s crucial that these corporations have a plan B to protect their paying customers or invest in building their own proprietary systems. Unfortunately, instead of doing so, they often shift responsibility onto open-source projects that don’t have the same level of financial backing. It’s clear that, over time, corporations are benefiting from the efforts of hard-working programmers and the broader working class. It’s concerning that many people, influenced by these corporations, end up defending them, even as they leave open-source projects to shoulder the burden. This approach is truly disheartening.

[@EoinHealy]

Many of the larger orgs give back to WP by putting in hours into core development or donating financially. WPEngine put in hours, but WP wasn't happy with it so they called them out publicly. It's not like WPEngine are not giving back, it's just Automatic not happy with the amount they are giving back and having a hissy fit about it.

[@thomassaunders225]

I wish this had never happened, but it is also not Wordpress that is being kept from WP Engine and their customers. The theme directory and plugin directory are not part of the GPL of WordpPress itself. I will need to check if there is a license associated with the repository or not. This is similar to Android vs the Play Store. The Android project is open source, but the Play Store is not.

[@polarxta2833]

Matt is very correct in what he did there. There is an issue that he wants to resolve and WPengine are the ones putting profit before customers.

[@thewaterbear]

WP Engine is the 'Im not touching you! I'm not touching you!" Equivalent of trademark infringement. They could have named themselves literally anything else, and they still can. They can just fork the software and put their name on it.

[@nickm1049]

You say on a channel called WPtuts 😂

[@polarxta2833]

@@nickm1049 Once again Matt has said using WP in the WPtuts way is fine.

[@WibowoSulistio]

Clarifications from Matt: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmepYYOdgsh-ja8 (Friday, Sept 27)

[@alexjones5062]

Excellent analysis! Current WP Engine user. I'm stunned at Matt's/Automattic's lack of understanding of fiduciary/legal responsibilities for his company. Sane CEOs use their legal departments to settle disputes. This appears to be a one-man wrecking ball to an industry using strong-arm tactics. When the adults (and lawyers) arrive on scene, he will likely find himself no longer CEO (and WP Engine services restored).

[@juliaduquette7927]

I am wondering where the legal team is! Cause I was thinking the same thing!

[@Jason-mk3nn]

BTW: Your final example of Pressable might put them in the crosshairs of the FTC for monopoly.

[@kevinroberts3789]

Will automatic updates for ACF still work if I am not a WPE user? I can't believe how massively childish Matt is in all this.

[@WPTuts]

While they are still on the .org repository, yes.

[@kktsvetkov]

"Why are hearing about this NOW?" as Ben Hunt from Episol Theory often says. The situation with the lack of contributions is not new, and a lot of highly-adopted open-source projects have the same issue. What prompted the escalation from Mullenweg NOW?

[@antonichristian5845]

No good can come of this regardless who you think is in the right or wrong. Will this also affect ACF? Personally I think wp engine will alter their addons to phone home when you load up Wordpress to check for updates and if an update is available you can download and install it. I think the Pressable thing is totally underhanded and will back fire on them in a bad way. Matt, you made a mistake, have been totally unprofessional and now normal everyday users of Wordpress are being affected. This goes against the spirit of open source and the Wordpress community in general.

[@wordpressjunkie8830]

This is rubbing me the wrong way, I have always seen wordpress as a beacon of freedom where internet can be free "not monetarily" but free for doing whatever you want, or whatever you wanna say, but now my view is changing fast.

[@fasn69]

I'm disgusted by Matt's behavior. In addition to WP Engine's lawsuit, WP Engine's customers should file a class action lawsuit against Matt and Automattic.

[@swagedelic]

Appears WP engine might be in the wrong with this one, options were licensing the trademark or contributing back into the open source community.

[@mattsheekstri]

​@@swagedelicnope

[@polarxta2833]

For what ?? Giving them free software to make a living from ? I know what - you should just stop using WordPress in response surely.

[@startsted]

For open source to remain open and sustainable, someone needs to contribute and ensure that the community and the developers behind it are supported - both through effort and revenue. So why should billion-dollar companies, owned by venture capitalists or private equity funds, benefit from it for free? How do you justify that?

[@WPTuts]

I'm not justifying it and haven't tried to in any of the videos or livestreams on the topic. I've stated that morally they should give back. But that doesn't excuse the way this is being handled or the impact it is having on the paying clients of WP Engine - they are the real losers in this stupid situation right now.

[@Chris...S]

They give back with free plugins that give more features then the core can provide. So they are giving back to the open source community.

[@polarxta2833]

@@Chris...S They bought them and now sell them for profit. How is that giving back ?

[@Chris...S]

@polarxta2833 yes, but they kept the free tier intacket and continued to maintain it.

[@polarxta2833]

@@WPTuts The paying clients of WPengine are relying on WPengine to do the right thing.

[@MeppyMan]

Me pulls out my old Drupal notes... This is just going to hurt WordPress. It's just about greed from Automatic.

[@polarxta2833]

No its nto greed its fairness. But the Drupal call may be a good one. The Canadians have a great version of it..

[@bob-p7x6j]

As of this hour ACF is still offered in the WP repository, hope it stays that way, more than a few users could be affected by this, but hope it doesn't go down such a dark road....

[@maxtermiller5947]

You won't be able to update it via the repository, you will have to wait and see how WPE will handle updates going forward.

[@twan1965pool]

I am also a WP Engine user and I do think it's a total disgrace! Totally over the Top in which Users are blackmailed, and Matt should be accounted for. Total childish behaviour. I will be suing him if this is going to have any effect on our operations. We are in the midst of a redesign of our website that involves many people and resources. No desire to go looking for another hosting company in the middle of this process.

[@Ashley-xb1dz]

Not a WP engine user as I consider them too expensive for what they offer but I never thought bad anything about them or flywheel, I think the way Matt is handling this is just bonkers though. Feels like other companies trying to grab a slice of the pie in the worst way possible... especially for a free and open source model. I'm not a dev, just a causal user but let your legal team beef it out for you instead of taking it out on customers too. WP engine and their Local tool seem pretty neat so I always thought that would be cool if WordPress itself made something like that.

[@alhaythum]

I think WP Engine customers should file law suites against Automattic & Mat for all the damages they caused by their reckless actions.

[@MarcelHeiniger]

Time to fork WordPress, maybe make it EtchPress

[@theplaintech]

I'd be willing to use BricksPress or AstroBuildpress. Think of the possibilities. I cringe at the idea of moving to Drupal.

[@polarxta2833]

Except everything Geary does costs yearly.

[@theplaintech]

@@polarxta2833 I've got in on the 'lifetime' deals, pretty much for everything -- I've had enough nickel and diming -- although, let's face it, we're paying a lot more than nickels and dimes -- but you are right. More accurately it should be that everything Geary does costs dearly. I have no doubt that when he gets done, etch a sketch will work, but... I'm not a fan of Wordpress blocks at all. This is all too undefined and we have to wait. I went through this with Oxygen. There's another kicker though, Matt is having a meltdown and we're wondering what that is going to mean for Wordpress. I'm already considering moving to some other platform. Wordpress is a mess and now with the war that's forming up, it looks like it's a significant risk to continue with Wordpress in the long term. Meanwhile, we have this new... whatever it's going to be, being made by some small group in the middle of the night....

[@slightlyevolved]

I think long term this is going to kill WordPress adoption. Businesses already there will most likely stay as this hashes out, but new deployments are probably going to be stymied because of the loss of trust in the devs.

[@christopherstratman6778]

Engine user here is completely dismayed by this mess. It is the users, freelancers, and agencies that are losing here.

[@webdev.vidyutpal]

Whatever is happening is bad for all of us.

[@fatjay9402]

Crazy... Egos of those guys going hard

[@ivanbarta2821]

excellent summary 👍

[@quantum_leap]

The world is a crazy place...

[@MichaelThomasDev]

Was in a client's site today, on WP Engine... had to install a plugin via FTP lol. This is wild.

[@polarxta2833]

See what WordPress gave you for free ? at their own cost ?

[@Mr_Web]

Paul, I think there's a typo in your title. Shouldn't it be WP Engine and not WE Engine?

[@WPTuts]

Cheers buddy - updated and corrected. :)

[@LytboxStudio]

Probably safer not to use the 'WP' 😂

[@Mr_Web]

@@LytboxStudio Good one Jeffrey

[@ysintos]

I feel sorry 4wp engine customers but on the other hand there is an old Greek saying... "No one is more ungrateful than the one who has been benefited. that's what I believe about WP engine

[@polarxta2833]

Exactly.

[@kylesandstrom853]

Something like this just made WordPress a non-option for a very large enterprise I do work for. I think WP has just gotten too massive and messy now, even saying you're a WP developer what does that mean? If the site is based off Gutenberg it could be a totally different developer experience from using Elementor, or ACF, etc. I'd love to see someone at this point fork it and make something lean and modern.

[@polarxta2833]

Why use WordPress on an Enterprise level company?

[@jstask82]

2:42: Whether I like what Automattic or WP Engine is doing or not: What is the bill of rights? It is not against the GPL License (which is used to publish WordPress) to restrict access to automattics servers. On the other hand, WP Engine is allowed to anything with the WordPress source code, as long as it is kept under the GPL. One is not obligated to share resources if it sees no profit in it.

[@WPTuts]

You can find out about the 'Biull or Rights' here: en-gb.wordpress.org/about/philosophy/#:~:text=The%20freedom%20to%20run%20the,your%20modified%20versions%20to%20others.

[@JRMillion]

I have some clients with WP Engine accounts, and at least one I happen to be working on today can still search and update plugins as usual...

[@htz70]

same, i have two sites there, both still have updates as of now

[@fajarfaezal]

Hmm.. I'm investing a lot in plugins and themes for clients. need to rethink strategy for this

[@juliaduquette7927]

If you're investing in themes for clients in 2024 I'd say you need to rethink your strategy regardless to be honest.

[@GaryBox]

From my point of view I want to use WordPress but I don't need WP Engine. As an outsider it does seem that the owners of WP Engine want to make the maximum amount of money from WordPress users whilst giving the absolute minimum back.

[@modemlooper]

Nobody’s obligated to give anything back per WordPress license. If they don’t like that, then they should just change the license.

[@modemlooper]

Also five for the future is not the only way to give back to WordPress at the Word camp that Matt spoke at WP engine gave $70,000 to be there. Is that not giving back?

[@tobisalami]

WPTuts (WP Gets trademarked.) Renamed to Tuts. 😂 ...and Tuts gets trademarked... Paul:

[@rubengarciajr]

Matt is losing his mind !! Just ruined his legacy for this!!!!!

[@WPTuts]

@@rubengarciajr this is his legacy. 😉

[@nick90000]

Leave Matt alone! 🤣😉

[@markusminix]

It would be better if Matt and WP Engine fought it out in court rather than bringing the whole community into a confusing situation. I think this is all about Business, not about idealism or contribution. To solve the business problem between the two of them, don't bring the WordPress community globally.

[@oscartini8030]

According to Matt having revisions disabled by default; a feature that bloats the database and slows down performance of a site; is a key feature that should be enabled at all times, but also Matt not allowing Wordpress users to download and auto-update plugins and/or themes because they had the unfortunate decision of selecting a hosting provider he has dispute with, doesn't seem to consider this a key feature that makes sites better and safer. The math isn't mathing here.

[@mintoo2cool]

as kayne once said ... no one man should have all that power ... imagine linus doing this to google and facebook ... lol

[@bigframedigital]

This is a disaster no matter how we see it. Matt has gone completely crazy. I'm sure he will lose in Court, there is absolutely no merit to what he is saying.

[@polarxta2833]

You have no idea what Matt is trying to do and how much legal support he has if that's what you think. You are only getting WordPress for free because of Matt.

[@noraholmquist8231]

Thank you for your insightful analysis and for taking a broader look at the impacts. Looking forward to the next video in your series 😀

[@burkezillar]

WordPress are being incredibly unprofessional here.

[@JonathanCampDesigner]

This interview probably sums up some questions with Matt: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmepYYOdgsh-ja8

[@kurtschlatzer]

Emotional intelligence has left the building.

[@kamelberlime3532]

I always stay out VC backed companies that relies solely on open source

[@itsfolf]

A couple months back Matt had a personal feud with a Tumblr user and proceeded to harass them across platforms which included posting their private account information on twitter in an inflammatory response (which he deleted some 15 minutes later after realizing the several laws he must've broken). Now the target of his emotional lash outs is WP Engine. Man can't be trusted.

[@ocratest]

Initially this drama was entertaining. With the WP-Admin plug-in update escalation this is a genuine crisis. Matt has lost his mind (period)!

[@nickm1049]

Imagine being an agency hosting your clients sites at WPE and they start hearing these stories, calling you in a panic, turns into a week from hell! Class action lawsuit waiting to happen

[@minimeiauw4]

I love this! WP Engine has been ripping people off for years with their outrageous hosting prices and misleading marketing. For a company turning hundreds of millions USD a year and not contributing to the core, it's quite unethical. But it doesn't seem like there's much legal basis for WordPress' behavior, but either way, it's fun to watch from the sidelines!

[@karlguildford6588]

Welsh Person doing Tutorials you should be safe, as to the fallout who knows. Musk did a good job upsetting twitter users, that cost him. Is Matt doing the same with bad guidance advice from the legal team who knows

[@AndyTate-1]

Worrying that one individual can have the potential to cause widespread disruption to business across the world.

[@llampp]

That's just childish behaviour harming us, the WordPress community. Matt needs to step down as project lead as we need someone that spreads a positive and open image of the platform.

[@carlosgouveia]

WP Engine is a ripp off

[@Jake-vd8os]

WPE needs to pay their way and not take advantage of the entire project and everyone involved. If there’s one positive thing to come out of this, it might be that it gives the other companies a nudge to contribute more. At least Matt is out there answering people's questions, helping everyone understand the situation better during a difficult time when most companies would go silent in a legal battle. And where is WPE? Hiding, hoping all of this just goes away.

[@Chris...S]

WP Engine does contribute to the WordPress open source community. They do so by giving free plugins that add features that the core doesn't. ACF is a big one.

[@Jake-vd8os]

​@Chris...S - Sorry to burst your bubble, but they are not contributing nearly as much as they should.

[@edwin5419]

When we were trying to get a local monthly WP meetup running, it was WPE who showed up, chipping in funds, not WP. The issue here is WPE isn't contributing the way WP decided that they need to. Forget about ACF, Flywheel and other products. WPE used to contribute a lot more, til Matt pushed Gutenberg hard as the only option, going after Elementor specifically in the process. The writing's on the wall - Matt only wants companies to profit off WP if that company is the $7b company called Automattic

[@adrianhendy]

Matt Mullenweg wants to be Elon Musk soooooooo bad

[@JonathanBlog1]

good insight Paul Don't upset them now :D

[@edwin5419]

What else was WPE going to do when Matt pulled that stunt?

[@Simon-sly]

You got a like at the: I’ll just be ’Tuts’ part! 😂

[@prabhatdoley]

Matt will block you too coz u r using wptuts😂

[@TonyAnytime]

Fork it... Tired of the crap

[@MariusH242]

Here's a perspective. What if the Automattic "suckers" stop investing in WordPress. Will WPEngine finally start putting in money into the project that their business wouldn't exist without? Aside from Matt's tactics which are indeed odd, WPEngine should support WordPress.

[@WPTuts]

@@MariusH242 I’m not disagreeing with that point. I’ve stated in each of my videos that from a moral standpoint that they absolutely should. That’s not in question. The problem comes from the way it’s been publicly handled and the impact it’s all having on the people in the middle getting screwed.

[@-GH-]

I smell a class action lawsuit.

[@clarkmakes]

Wow. That's intense.

[@AndiSyafrianda]

can php do so for wordpress?

[@KaiBuskirk]

Cheers hope all is well!

[@bjoernzosel]

I think Mr Mullenweg has a personal issue with someone at WP Engine. What he does is not rational. Its a shame that he is damaging WP in this way.

[@polarxta2833]

He mentioned a certain exec at the VP company who was also involved in the spat with Godaddy, which got resolved by Godaddy pushing back against the VP company.

[@SamWereb]

08:00 WP Engine has "billions in revenue"?

[@WPTuts]

I'm guessing they are referring to over the lifetime of the company.

[@SRG-Learn-Code]

Is wordpress to big to fail?

[@edwin5419]

Nope

[@kwsim539]

My concern with WPEngine is that if they alter the core WP what happens if a customer wants to leave WPEngine and move their WP site to a different host? If the site is migrated to a different host the WP CMS core files are different from the official WP core. Will this affect updates to the CMS when they are available, and if there is an update, will it fail or crash the site after the update. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see the argument WPEngine has, but even if all this drama didn't happen, modifying the core WP may affect their customers should they decide to leave for another hosting, because their modified WP CMS will not be the same as the core WP.

[@juliaduquette7927]

I mean Showit is already in this boat. Showit only allows use of their builder if it's hosted by them which really means it's hosted on WP Engine so none of those people can move to another host. I do think that should be something their clients are aware of!

[@sluffmo]

They are modifying the config. They aren't rewriting the core code or anything. Switching off WPE is super easy.

[@kwsim539]

@@sluffmo Maybe you should watch the video again. WPE is removing the core functionality of WP. Now at this point, it's just widgets on the dashboard, but this is just the beginning before this CMS will become more proprietary to WPE than WP itself. This will remove options their clients have when deciding to move to another hosting provider.

[@vaughanprint]

Somebody has tin pot dictator syndrome.

[@jmon24ify]

time to look for another CMS

[@meygavox]

Don't build a business on the business of someone else.

[@edwin5419]

It's open source. Should we all abandon servers built on Linux, which is also open source?

[@dracula5752]

please make WordPress subscription based so over client stop asking for WordPress lmao.

[@camilo3rd-au]

stop using WP.. solved. i already wrote my own CMS.. never been have an issue since then.. :D

[@phillankester]

Great vid as usual Paul. The next few days/weeks will be interesting for sure.

[@BGdev305]

It's pretty obvious WP is now on a mission to stop companies from using WP to make hundreds of millions from using WP as it's core, WHILE paying ZERO for WP! If you were Matt / WP, you probably would also. WP was and is designed to be used by an individual to create blog / site / etc. But because of the licensing, non-individuals have taken WP and built code and a company ON TOP of WP, WHILE not paying a dime for WP core! So as of today, the Matt and WP are probably thinking, this is NOT how they wanted WP to be used, hence their licensing to use it for free.. they meant free for the individual! Right now they are targeting the big companies that are profiting to the tune of hundreds of millions.. wait until they target the "builders"!

[@satisfyingly1]

Remember WP is open source. It is build by community.

[@WPTuts]

Then maybe they should have opted for a different licensing model or made the product commercial and not open source and then spent years promoting that aspect. As I've said in the video, while I 100% agree that the likes of WPE should give back, maybe even more than they already do, there is no legal obligation to do so. They (or anyone else benefiting from WordPress or other open source software) have he choice to contribute or not - this is the nature of open source and it will always be exploited - however, the way MM has approached this and is doing it in a very public way, it has a much farther reaching and more detrimental effect on WordPress as a whole and that is bad for all of us.

[@polarxta2833]

@@WPTuts Matt has been talking to WPengine since 2018 about this issue. Its not new. They just dragged it on to the point where he gave up on them. They have erred in fairly meaningful ways and this will sort it all out. I don't know if you have watched any of Matts response videos Paul, but you might want to, because you seem to be under the misapprehension that Matt is doing the wrong thing for WordPress, which could not be father from the truth in my view.

[@digwillhachi]

I am with Matt on this TBH. Automatic contributes massive hours, the fact WE Engine literally don't add anything back but use everything that has been built by others to make their profit.

[@WPTuts]

You agree that users of WP Engine should be put in the crossfire of this pointlessly public fight instead of taking the more pragmatic approach of going through legal channels? Whether you agree with Matt/Automatic or WPEngine, there is no reason to affect paying users by throwing a hissy fit.

[@nickname123321]

Room temperature IQ take

[@digwillhachi]

@@WPTuts well isnt that on WE Engine? They escalated the situation. They could have just agreed to contribute more. They are happy to take the money.

[@digwillhachi]

@@nickname123321 Whats your genius level IQ take then? Please do share. I am sure you love using free open source software. Don't you care about it being kept alive? You realise how many months it takes plugins to be approved because there arent enough people working on the project to check them to speed it up.

[@WPTuts]

@@digwillhachi not at all, no. I really have no connection to WP Engine and have never used their hosting services, but when Automattic take this type of action that affects thousands of users because they aren't getting a large enough slice of the pie, that changes things. WordPress is open source and as such is available to be used and modified as required (see the WP Bill of Rights). If WPE or any other company exercise that right and make a profit of it (which anyone making money off WordPress does), Automattic can't throw their toys out of the pram. As I've already said - could WPE do more? Yes, absolutely. Are the obliged to? No.