World of Warships - Captain's Academy #27 - Citadels, Armour and Penetration Mechanics I

Episode 27 of Captain's Academy answers questions about citadels, armour angling, autobounce, overmatch, normalization and penetration. This comprehensive video should answer the majority of your questions regarding where to hit and why your hits either pen or bounce. So sit back, relax and enjoy!
fnord_disc's Armour Penetration Curves: forum.worldofwarships.eu/index...
If you have questions, please leave them in the comments section below.
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[@melaniecastalano6012]

I just want to be on the red team one time. Whenever I play this game, the red team always wins!

[@Bigbeef1999]

Im having that day today....

[@oceanman6327]

@Mohammad Karter and Dnny Maverick ARE BOTS IT IS A FALSE SITE

[@widgeman]

This game is a hell of a lot more complex than I thought

[@viveremilitareest9281]

Crazy, right? When I started I thought this was a kids game that looked cool and would be easy enough, oh boy was I wrong. They've done an excellent job of creating a simulator/war game

[@skydragongaming7840]

i actually was dissapointed on how difficult this game is. but now im starting to read up some stuff.

[@devo229]

What so difficult about it just stay with your team stay out of range and lead your pass

[@raunaqgupta33]

As i type this i am downloading this game. I currently play wot and have over 10K battles in it and thought understanding WoW will be easier for me. I am so glad that i actually took previous advice on WoW forum to visit this channel. These videos shows how much more complex it Armor layout is in WoW than in WoT and I am having difficulty to understand it.

[@hey....]

Raunaq Gupta do you think I should try WoT before continuing WoW?

[@merlyn5038]

Saw in Twitter how hard you worked on this. Means a lot that you will do this for your fans.

[@ichasegaming]

Thank you :) always trying to provide all of you with the best possible information so you know what's happening to you in game

[@Mavairo]

This is probably the single best captains academy video to date, hands down. Great job.

[@ichasegaming]

Thank you :)

[@wildboar222]

Seriously, thank you for this video, I've been playing this game since CBT and all of this stuff still confuses the hell out of me

[@ichasegaming]

Hopefully I've been able to clarify a lot of information for you

[@Zarkaithnia]

Thank you so much for this!!! Now I can really learn how to use my ships. Wish WoWs had an armor view system like Warthunder. They gib all the info and you can actually simulate the shell hitting the armor at various angles. Thank God thee are people out there like you and the 2 you mentioned in your video to present us with the data. Hats off to fnord_disc for this beautiful data set. I am not used to people making such professional ones.

[@uconnjames]

These captain academy videos are very technical, informational and helpful. Thank you for the hard work!

[@EpiicSoNiickzZ]

I can see in the video you are using the training room mod and would you get banned for it or is it alright to get?

[@kerbalspaceinstitute]

Your series has been incredibly informative - thank you! I just wanted to add that at 17:15 The relationship of effective armor thickness (T) versus incident angle of shell (A) goes like T=t/cosine(A), A between 0 & 60. (t=actual ship armor thickness) 27:44 The graphic shows the shell refracting into the ship side, i.e., turning into the denser medium from air to metal (I never considered that a shell would do that, but it makes sense since other thinks like light and mechanical objects like sound and rolling object obey Snell's law as well).

[@patrickhughes8164]

Coming back for a refresher. That elusive citadel.

[@Dr_V]

Very useful video, thank you Chase. I can add a tiny bit of information from my personal experience: a fast way to estimate the angle of a far target in artillery view (besides looking at the minimap for some rough idea). Look at the distance between the smoke stack(s) and turrets, more specific between the furthest foreword and furthest aft turrets and the foreword and aft smoke stacks if the ship has more than one of these. If the smoke stack appears to be roughly at the same distance from the extreme turrets your target is more or less broadside and you can go for the citadel, otherwise aim higher or switch to HE. Applicable only for cruisers and battleships, of course.

[@FromGamingwithLove0456]

Awesome. Thanks again for the elaborate descriptions!

[@DarkThomy]

Here I am on ps4, multiple years after discovering your great channel, coming back to once again learn how citadels work..!

[@anlize3422]

Awesome and very informative video Chase! I now understand better why the bloody hell I'm getting a lot of overpens and some bounces.

[@ichasegaming]

Yay :D also overpen video coming soon

[@AngryNerd]

Great video 👍

[@AlexFeldstein]

Excellent, excellent work. Very well researched, detailed and explained!

[@ichasegaming]

Thank you :)

[@The_Edgarodriguez]

Amazing video. Cherry on the top. Thanks and congrats!

[@johnathonkogelman9398]

Thank you iChase - Great information and presentation!

[@ichasegaming]

You're welcome :)

[@Zyprus]

Thank you for taking the time to make these tutorials.. i have learned a lot from them.

[@GeneralFresh]

Thank you chase! Your videos are always entertaining and helpful!

[@ichasegaming]

You're welcome!

[@yumpinyiminy963]

Very well done. I'm an not sure I can remember all of this for every ship especially in battle. Good to know though. Thanks, Puddahead

[@Anihe]

Best wows-theorycraft vid this far!

[@TheAnoniemo]

Great video Chase! Can't wait to study all the intimacies of my opponents citadel.

[@ichasegaming]

Thank you :)

[@kingtillery_collects]

high quality guides, subscribed!

[@davidncw4613]

I have been using AP in my Gearing against Smolis very effectively (I love killing those fkn things). After watching this I will use it a lot more. TY!

[@BigZach1]

Very helpful video, thank you!

[@matthewlau1467]

Great Video Chase again! Love your videos!

[@Forevererify]

+1 this is a great video! also many thanks to the guy figuring out the statistical values!!!

[@MarkoLomovic]

Nice thanks for making these it really helps a lot.

[@Sean-cr5ky]

I remember having a BB gun autobounce off me once as a DD when I was getting in. I was like "Wait they hit me where's the damage I take?"

[@TheKasperlkopf]

wow i just downloaded the game and discovered your channel... very good info and editing and a TON of videos... very nice, appreciate your hard work! ez supped

[@ichasegaming]

Cheers and welcome :)

[@FunkMonk1111]

wow! didnt kno there was so much in it. v-technical vid. lv the info n thx.

[@MammothPaige]

Great info, Keep them coming.

[@ichasegaming]

Thank you :)

[@nottoday3817]

P.S I remember your Izumo video and this bow-on you mentioned reminds me of a time when I completly wrecked a montana with it.

[@micromedia26]

wow...very good explained chase...helps me very lot...ever wondered why the hell i get no citadell at a North.Ca thank you very much :)

[@Thumper770]

So, basically, after spending half an hour watching this, I got a LOT of technical knowledge I didn't have but, as far as the battlefield goes, my take away is, shoot at the enemy inside 7km, at the waterline as close to 90 degrees to the side of the target as possible. Sweet!

[@yakumo_kei]

Very helpful, when I try to run away from a Khaba in the Yamato =/ JK Really helpful to explain why I get all of over pen in Zao in close range. Thank u chase

[@Mariuspersem]

Really useful, nice video :D

[@ichasegaming]

Thank you :)

[@admiralcollins7516]

Really good video, thanks

[@ichasegaming]

You're welcome :)

[@kratos9888]

I had a general idea of how the pen and overmatch system worked but this helped a lot, thanks. Although i cant play right now cause my cooling fan decided to be not cool anymore and my computer just overheats lol. But, hopefully ill be able to get back to it quickly,

[@Jognt]

Nice. One thing I'd like to point out though is that you talk about angles as a definite constant. The thing is though that there are two ways you're mentioning angle. In one you define straight-on-flat-surface as 90° and in the other you define it as 0°. When you show the angle-thing at 18:28 this becomes most obvious as the angle-to-armor values you mentioned before would imply the armor becoming stronger the more straight-on you fire. The 60° auto-bounce in that example would be 30°, 30° from the ships length axis, but 60° from straight-on.

[@SpeedyelCruel]

thanks for your work

[@NeginoSora]

the first professor of WoWs to post in yt :D i know there r plenty more in forum, website, but meh tldr (sorry) & thnx for the video

[@ichasegaming]

You're welcome and thank you

[@jediineducation]

great vid ichasegaming

[@iamscoutstfu]

.1 x10^4 lol Why not just say “kilometers” ? Awesome table, little hard to understand at first until you see 10^4

[@TheSnakerino]

Awesome vid m8! ;)

[@MultiSniper38]

good work

[@truckinbobb]

Love to see the T10 BBs, compared and why WG needs to help montana when it comes to the over match mechanic.

[@paraklash8912]

Gr8 vid, learned a lot !!!

[@ichasegaming]

Thanks :D

[@nottoday3817]

thank you, chase

[@ichasegaming]

You're welcome :)

[@BattlefeildTroll]

thanks allot Chase!

[@ichasegaming]

You're welcome! :D

[@ivanstiffy2091]

Great video iChase. Any chance of adding info about overpens? I seem to be getting these all the time in my Battleships against 0 degree side on cruisers; aiming at the waterline and I just overpen for a few thousand damage ;( Is it just a case of my guns are too big and I should be using HE? The shell normalisation patch seems to have made overpens much more of a problem (for me at least).

[@UnintentionalSubmarine]

Hey Chase, great work. You forgot to mention the USN 8 inch cruiser shells behave slightly different in the auto-bounce mechanic (bouncing starts at 60 degrees and auto-bounces at 67.5 degrees).

[@ichasegaming]

Yes, I forgot about that, but I'll mention it during a cruiser video :)

[@lllmywz348]

Feels like American BB from NC onward as well as CA from Baltimore onward have a higher chance of landing citadels when you shoot a enemy's deck or superstructure instead of the sides because American superheavy shells have high arc and will basically drop on the deck and pen the weaker deck armor.

[@fobiostg6818]

iChase when talking about impact angle it's the angle between between the tangent to the trajectory at the point of impact of a projectile and the plane tangent to the surface of the ground or target at the point of impact. So when a ship is fully broadside the impact angle of your shells is 0 degrees not 90! Otherwise great video

[@redtitan75]

i always thought iowas where easier to citadel than nc, thanks for explaining the reason behind that.

[@ichasegaming]

You're very welcome :D

[@oxoboro]

Really nice and well explained video! It helps a lot! But what if you shoot above when the ship is coming at you, at the turrets for example? will you damage it by hitting its deck? I've had a few matches where i was shooting it there, because it was angled and i still managed to do some damage ( not all the time though). Is it better just to shoot HE when they are angled, or simply aim your ap shells somewhere else? Thanks!

[@ichasegaming]

You can still do some damage if you manage to hit superstructure parts or if you hit at just the right angle and it went through the deck for some penetration damage. Otherwise when bow on, throw some HE or seek better angle to fire AP

[@torresmuoinc4205]

Great tutorial. its always good back to basics and learn again what ur doing wrong. lol.

[@vysearcadia522]

Wish you demonstrated citadels at BB's longest ranges. Most of the fights usually lie in the mid to long range with only a few close quarter fights.

[@ymer234]

yes, very well explained and not as boring as the last one ;-) Did you considered recording mouse pointer? I dont know if I asked you before.

[@JafuetTheSame]

i think the issue with pensacola is plunging fire from bbs rather than that tiny space above the waterline

[@standardrobloxian7212]

the auto ricochet mechanic is the reason why, after i fire i turn my battleship towards the enemy im shooting at. then turn back when im reloaded

[@dubsy1026]

This came out at precisely 2:00 o clock I the UK

[@JetstreamKage]

does WoWS water auto stop shells? or can you aim below the water line at close fire to go through the water and hit citadels below the water.

[@kajarslibrary5404]

You can but its extremly difficulty. The shells use ALOT of penetration when entering the water. Probably not gonna work on battleships but i have seen and felt it alot in battleship vs cruiser scenarios. 14" shell hits the water next to your cruiser, still lost 10k health to a citadel hit underwater.

[@JetstreamKage]

Karlas LP has anyone figured out the math for the penetration drop? and does distance traveled by water get calculated or just instant drop?

[@sciencethygod]

Also remember shells arc, so most of the time aiming right at the water line, will result in shells entering a ship just above the water and arcing downwards continuing their path under water.

[@kajarslibrary5404]

Fumetsu Kage Also, i think the fuse of the shells gets activated once it hits the water. So there is a hard cap on how far the shell can go before it goes boom.

[@fjhatsu]

Sometimes when ship turns their "Red part" which is the part of citadel under the water will exposed so you can shoot at them.

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

Keep in minds that there is still a plate of 127 -140 mm of middle deck armor that doesn't show up in the armor viewer but does in the data mine. That's part of the reason it has good protection from AP bombs.

[@oseansoldier]

Great video Chase! Sadly I cannot use any of the information in it till around Thanksgiving or Christmas. This semester of college is going to be brutal. Sixteen hours of straight Mechanical Engineering classes. Imgunnadie

[@ichasegaming]

Good luck Osean, will be here when you get back, plus you'll have a ton of Captain's Academy videos to chew through

[@fatnlazychinc]

thanks for the video. how do i know which angle am i shooting at? for example, im not sure if i were shooting at a 30 degree or a 60 degree...

[@hussam9044]

wait i want to know something... can you over pen a citadel and do little to no damage? cuz i have really good aim and idk if i really wanna switch to HE when i am in bb and i see a cruiser...i know where to aim but just want to know if its worth it

[@oledahl.]

just have to say like most other here: thank you so much for spending time (a lot probably) researching and teaching us this. The only thing i wonder: I have studied physics and mathematics (too name a few) on university level. And I am a pretty big second WW nerd! I have studied some of these ships historical facts and read myself up on how shells behave in real life. Arcs, velocity, angles, armor, explosives and dynamite types and much more. But does this game take into account all of that real life physics or is it just a game where you cant trust it to follow real life rules of behavior for firing ship cannons? Besides that thank you again for your outstanding research and pedagogical teaching. :) pplease make more of these videos! :) bewst reg from oslo/norway

[@142jimmy]

Ahh!, now i can complete my mission.

[@rx95jur]

And now the playlist for the series needs to be in the video discription as well :D

[@ichasegaming]

Yup, I'll do that! Thanks for reminding me

[@Einsig]

The test of auto bouncing should also note that your forward guns are shooting from a different angle than your rear guns. It's a small difference, especially as distance increases, but it becomes more significant at these close ranges.

[@ichasegaming]

Yes, that's true as well, but u can't deny that shifting the ship a bit drastically increases autobounces

[@Argatoss]

The first video about penetration i watch on youtube^^

[@ichasegaming]

Woot :D

[@Argatoss]

Great video btw, thanks mate!

[@niederbayer1199]

Hi! Can you tell me something about the mechanic of waterhits? I saw a replay where a tirpitz got two citadels from bullets which hit the water first. So do you know something about this mechanic e.g. How much armor provides the water and so on Greetings from Bavaria

[@damin1916]

very helpfull

[@egorney]

the 90 deg mark should be considered the bow of your ship. 0 degrees is broadside. other than that this is an awesome video and was really helpful.

[@lirg03]

Thank you iChase for the awesome tutorial! One question about the armor viewer, will it show the armor layout for all ships in the tech tree, or only the ones you unlocked/bought?

[@craigkulbaba7564]

In the test server, it is all ships - even the upcoming British ships which have no stats released yet.

[@ichasegaming]

All ships in tech tree

[@iron8586]

hey Chase, do the gun barbettes not count as part of the citadel? Or when you penetrate the barbettes, it only knocks out your guns?

[@ichasegaming]

Yes, that is correct

[@01Laffey]

iChase can you explain overpenetration mechanics in the game as well please since I don't get what the triggers are for it.

[@ichasegaming]

Yes, I'm covering that in the next video coming later tonight

[@anderskorsback4104]

Speaking of armour penetration. If you're in a Russian gunboat and shooting at max range against enemy cruisers or battleships, is it worth using AP? I'm thinking that with the high arcs at max range, there'd be a high likelihood the shell would hit the (lightly armoured) deck from above.

[@She1lby]

At 21:10 it's a 50 degree actually, not 40, cuz you are counting from 90 degree angle, not from the bow of the ship if i got it correctly.

[@mikeadams3656]

Really enjoy your videos and have learned a lot about wow and how to play it "better" but I was wondering if you had seen Nathan Okun's information on armor, projectiles and such? Most of this stuff is over my head but I have learned some things from his formulas on armor penetration, angles and such. It's at navweaps.com and very technical in nature but it has "real world" testing data and even though I don't understand a lot of it I found it interesting and informational. Again, I really enjoy your videos and am seriously considering becoming a patron of yours!

[@fabianb8157]

+iChaseGaming hey well I tested some things in battle and if I according to the compas angle for 60 degrees then I don't get citadeled yet I do get penned, so If you are in a Iowa for example it has a relatively straight side would it be better to point my bow straight at the target or keep them at my left or right at about 60 degrees, if so isnt it better to angle for 65 degrees so you do counter the little bit which is not straight?

[@zam023]

It felt like I just sat thru a Physics class >_< Well that explains why I was able to one shot an Iowa in my Amagi at point blank from about 20deg angle at the waterline, right under the 2nd gun turret. That thing's citadel is so high above the waterline.

[@bjornf.193]

Hi! Can you explain the "german" turtleback armor, too? Is it visible in the viewer?

[@PGM991]

nice lesson Mr.Ichase. however, this lesson is about AP shell. I kinda want to know about HE shell that CA spit out all the time so I can minimize their damage.

[@ichasegaming]

Will be another video for another day :) don't worry this entire month is pretty much all Captain's Academy

[@DarkThomy]

So, quick question... The towers, the chimneys, the deck.. are they considered like no armor at all?

[@Cailus3542]

Dang, you don't waste time. Nice job. ^_^

[@ichasegaming]

Nope, don't waste time :) if I can provide the best information I will be the first to do so

[@azizharimaulana3702]

26:14 Plus spam F7 & F8 :D LOL

[@Glenowan]

I felt the pain when seeing Iowa getting x10 citadel hits lol

[@Darkhorse393]

could you disscus sometime shooting into the superstructure on a bow-on target and how it either bounces or pens?

[@ichasegaming]

Hmm, well if you hit the conning tower, you'll bounce shells there. As for penning/overpenning that'll come in an overpen video soon

[@cristianmicu]

just a side note- normalization is explained backwards....normalization process increases the penetration angle in favor of...the shell

[@shiranuikatagawa8570]

CHASE CANT WATCH STRAIGHT MY ISP CANT HANDLE THE QUALITY OF THAT MAGNITUDE :P

[@ichasegaming]

Sorry, it went HD, so I released it, need sleep, stayed up all night to finish this

[@Airwave2k2]

What gui mod is that show penetration bounce and so on on the enemy?

[@anderskorsback4104]

It's the base vanilla game, it's always been there for me. Maybe it's turned off in some setting of yours.

[@MattBKn]

iChase, are the auto bounce angles mentioned in this thread (forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/82567-0561-shell-normalization-values/page__hl__%2Bnormalization+%2Bdatamine__fromsearch__1) correct? If they are, how does that modify the bounce calculation for USN 8" AP?

[@ichasegaming]

I think USN AP deals with slightly less % per degree of angling compared to other guns. That's my guess for now

[@raysschoko]

Hi IChaseGaming Thx for this Video! a nice video that puts it all together! As we all know you are a teacher i have a problem and you may be able to solve it. Why is it impossible to citadell a BB in a Scharnhorst, while in a Moskwa it is possible?

[@fokjohnpainkiller]

How about the added layers of armor? How do shells behave after say hitting the deck heading downwards?

[@fafniroth]

Deflection angle is a function of the initial energy of the shell and energy loss from going through the armor plate. In general if the plate traversed is thick enough the shell is going to bleed a lot of velocity and will have a hard time penetrating more armor. If the subsequent plate is angled when compared to the exit angle from the first one, the effect is magnified (see for example German turtleback armor, but also some Japanese armor plating). In general, if you have two plates of identical thickness one after the other the second one will have MUCH more stopping power than the first. However that means that the AP shell will explode in-between, dealing normal penetration damage.

[@craigkulbaba7564]

Great vid Chase. Personally, I think this or a slightly condensed version should be required watching for anyone playing past tier 3. LoL The only thing you didn't cover was loss of pen on AP shots over distance. Do you have numbers for that??

[@ichasegaming]

Yes, if you check the armour penetration curves, you can see further distances and what the AP pen will be

[@AmishHitman73.Archive]

you being a young guy id have thought youd have moved on with other games (because this video is 6 years old). you however have not, your dedication to this game is impressive and a quality not found in many young people as i have seen, good on you

[@rirah365]

thanks ichase. as BB players this really helps me a lot also, why your 28th entires are suddenly private ? i was just downloading them yesterday and when i want to continue downloading, its' gone

[@ichasegaming]

Because mistakes, reuploaded no with the errors fixed :)

[@robinekhoodekful]

+iChaseGaming there is a mod in Aslain's mod pack that show you an angle that enemy ship is for you. You should check that out. It would really help you :)