A-36 Mustang (Apache). The P-51’s Groundpounding Sister!

Today we look at the P-51's Ground-Pounding Sister, the A-36 Apache! It's a fascinating tale of destroying ground targets AND bureaucratic red tape! Enjoy!
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[@garywebb7481]

As a 25+ year volunteer at the National museum of the U.S. Air Force, I’ve had the privilege of seeing this bird thousands of times. Thanks for the history lesson. If you need any other photos let me know. Being at the museum has allowed me the great privilege to have met and talk to many of our veterans and they always amaze me.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for reaching out! I hope I got everything (mostly) right! If you wouldn't mind sending me a quick email to establish a link, I think you could be an excellent resource that I proimised to not overuse! [e-mail]

[@Fetherko]

In Dayton, Ohio?

[@mustangtmg]

Umm. Have you looked at the signage of the A-36A at the Museum??? It very clearly says “A-36A Mustang,” and to keep some people from blowing a gasket, it mentions the popular nickname from the 12th AF, “Invader.” It also mentions “Apache,” a nickname from about 1970 (not a typo: 1970!!!)!

[@kellywright540]

Thanks! My junior high school teacher wrote on my class picture, "To the kid who knows all about airplanes, have a great summer and good luck in high school!" Well, that was back in 1977 and I am still learning stuff about airplanes as I did with this video! Oh, and my interest in WWII airplanes and aircraft in general came from my Dad who talked about how the American aircraft shot up trucks, tanks and anything else the Germans had on the roads and the Germans referring to them as Jabos. He fought in Patton's Third Army and saw plenty of things and places destroyed by both sides...

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for sharing!

[@ivanhicks887]

Kelly - A Wonderful Past and A Wonderful Future Ahead - Planes Are Magic - Thankyou

[@BikingVikingHH]

Your dad was right, the allies committed atrocious war crimes, gunning down civilians with planes like the A36… like Patton said, we fought the wrong side

[@ivanhicks887]

@@BikingVikingHH God Bless America

[@BikingVikingHH]

@@ivanhicks887 lol god has nothing to do with the US, it’s just the muscle for the synagogue of Satan… boomers🙄 😆

[@scottpayton1352]

I first learned of the A-36 when my Grandfather told me of his experience as an infantryman in WW2. He and his men were mistakenly strafed by one. He said he was pissed, but he sure loved the power of the plane! Very cool video. I am fortunate enough to have friends that own P-51D's and have flown in a couple. Amazing! I was born 40 years late!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Wow that is amazing! My long-term plans for this channel are eventually to visit locations and go flying in warbirds and share with folks. This summer at least I flew to a location and crawled through a B-17 and B-25, but I've got to get UP in one at some point!

[@CharlesKrum-wb7ev]

In '93, I was fortunate to visit Doug Champlins collection in Mesa Az. For some reason, that day noone was there and I received a once in a lifetime tour of the most fantastic fighter collection ever. The A36 there was on display. All of the a/c were flightworthy and were flown regularly. I never stopped drooling throughout the afternoon and was allowed to sit in the cockpit of many of the displayed a/c. The collection was sold off shortly thereafter and I actually cried when I heard, but for 1 day, I was in aviation heaven. Thank you Doug.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thank you for sharing!

[@edwardpate6128]

I've always loved the Allison powered variants of the P-51, the A model and the A-36. At 15K and below they were exceptional performers and the equal to the Merlin models. It was at high altitudes that the single stage/single speed supercharging let them down. Later a lot of the A models were used pretty extensively all the way until the end of the war in the CBI theater to gradually replace the P-40.

[@paulwoodman5131]

The F model for foto. I've got that one in my model stack.😊.

[@Cuccos19]

P-40 was never actually replace by anything else at CBI. They did very well. Better than the Allison Mustang, which was faster, but nothing else.

[@wbertie2604]

At 10,000 ft and below, on introduction it was at least as if not faster than the 190 and Typhoon (there are a variety of possible levels of manifold pressures allowed during the period and other changes so it's hard to be specific without model numbers and dates). The nearest Spitfire was the uncommon Mk. XII.

[@wbertie2604]

​@@Cuccos19It was more expedient to keep making P-40s at the factories already making them than and deploying them where they were effective than trying to swap production. North American was a new entrant so had thr luxury of starting with a clean slate, although many suspect that it already had the P-51 outlined before the UK requested it.

[@skipperclinton1087]

​@Cuccos19: I saw a P-51 at the Reno air races back in '81 flying against among others an F4U Corsair. When they reached the pylons and had to make the turns the F4 just rolled over on a wingtip at about a 90 degree angle and make a tight turn. The Mustang on thr other hand had to swoop outside and feather the wings in order to head back the other way. In the straightaway it would catch up and pass the Corsair but the Corsair would out turn them every time. P-51s didn't fare too well on B-29 escort missions over Japan either against Japanese fighters.

[@yeildo1492]

I have never heard of the Apache and I watch a lot of this stuff. Thank you for the video!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@user-yc2oz8kc5k]

I just had my lesson of the day. Had no idea about this plane, ever. A-36.

[@MayheM_72]

As much as everyone loves the Mustang, my favorite WW2 fighter is the Corsair! An absolute BEAST in the Pacific!

[@worldofwarbirds]

And I swear I WILL do a full and complete episode (or maybe a series) based on the F4U! But as it is also one of my all-time faves, I'm saving it as a treat!

[@tootired76]

Finally a video of the A 36 Apache! The US Army has a long tradition of naming it's aircraft after indigenous American tribes.

[@DavidOfWhitehills]

Well that's just cultural misappropriation. The tribes should Sioux.

[@DogVonDobie]

@@DavidOfWhitehills Well played.

[@PauloPereira-jj4jv]

There was never an A-36 Apache. The name is MUSTANG.

[@lucasmccatt1949]

I'm from the Slapaho tribe

[@terenceblakely4328]

Allison engines are often maligned for not having dual stage superchargers and thus poor high altitude performance but that was due to government mandate. Allison was told that GE was to supply turbo charges for high altitude performance and so they built their engines with single stage superchargers. Only two problems. One, GE ran late and two, those superchargers were ginormous. The bulky fuselage of the P-47s were due to using those turbochargers. On the plus side they were very effective.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Also it is NOT understood that the Marlin of the same time frame the 20 series were also a SINGLE STAGE supercharged engine which added a second SPEED to turn the compressor wheel faster to pump a little more air. the Merlin got the 2 STAGE supercharger in late 1942!!! The first plane to fly with a 2 STAGE supercharger was the Navy F4F-3 which used the PW R1830, PWv also had a 2 StAGE supercharger on the R2800 in the F4U Corsair and the F6F Hellcat, the P47 used a TURBOcharger feeding a mechanical supercharger in the P47, RR was late to the party with the 2 stage in late 1942...... time line guys

[@bobsakamanos4469]

​@@wilburfinnigan2142Allison never made it to the party at all. Epic fail.

[@stephenwetmore3747]

As a long time fan of wwII fighter planes, especially the P 51, I did not know this. Very well done. Thank you!

[@Zajuts149]

This was really good. Not many mention the 311th Fighter-Bomber Group in the CBI. IIRC, only 2 of the Group's 3 squadrons operated the A-36, whilst the 3rd used P-51As. The 1st Air Commando Group also operated a squadron of P-51As. In the summer of 1944, the old Allison-engined Apaches/Mustangs were being replaced by Merlin-powered P-51Cs. Also very interesting about the British use of the A-36. I had only heard about the single example they acquired for testing, dubbed Mustang Mk I(DB). I would love to hear about the use of the cannon-armed P-51/Mustang Mk Ia, too.

[@DogVonDobie]

They borrowed six from the US in the MTO for reconnaissance work.

[@greggpennington966]

Once again, it's amazing to me that I had never heard about this WW2 period aircraft !

[@toastyroastyman8911]

the a36 was a pretty good plane in itself

[@R760-E2]

I had a bunch of D-model time before I flew the A-36, I didn't look down on it at all. I like the Allison.

[@user-nu7kk4uw6k]

Well suited for low level work with that Allison.

[@Grams79]

I'm a long long time WWII air combat fan with great knowledge and some experience. Your channel is great and it will help teach the new generation our history. Thank you mate. S~

[@worldofwarbirds]

Hello! Thanks for the compliment! Especially with having made some inroads with the Warthunder crowd, I hope so!

[@thomasr.bartonjd7815]

Your opening is the most-Clever and the Bestest opening ever for an aviation or Fighter plane KZbin Event! --it was funny and i shed a tear or two..

[@tomperone9338]

I just saw an A-36 at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force last weekend. Beautiful bird!

[@worldofwarbirds]

I think that's the only one around!

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@worldofwarbirds Wrong again there is one flying making the air show rounds, seen the video on You Tube

[@inkycat7167]

Holy shit finally a video that actually talks about the A-36 Apache Mustang

[@worldofwarbirds]

Yeah I thought it was a pretty cool story!

[@PauloPereira-jj4jv]

There's no "Apache". It's Mustang, officially. Always was.

[@inkycat7167]

@@PauloPereira-jj4jv It was supposed to be called Apache but everyone just called it mustang anyways so you’re not completely wrong

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@PauloPereira-jj4jv the AAF did advertise the original "P-51" (Mustang Mk.Ia) as the Apache for a while in the US.

[@drgondog]

The A-36 was a Mustang, officially, as assigned by North American and USAAF Public Relations, July 1942. Ben Kelsey was in England in January 1942 with 8th AF as a liason - when the Materiel Command led by Echols tried to kill the A-36. He had Nothing to do with A-36. He (Echols) was content to let the Mustang line die. Major General Muir Fairchild AC/AS Planning, Operational Requirements aligned with Director of Close Air Support to ram the A-36 down Echols' throat. The design of the A-36 began in November 1941 with an eye toward the dive bomber funds remaining for FY 41. Echols tried, then, to kill the Mustang after the A-36 contract completed at 500, and once again tried to kill the Mustang in favor of converting capacity to B-25 - and once again Fairchild steam rolled him and approved P-51A as a follow up to be converted (production run) to P-51B-5 when Merlin conversion of P-51-NA airframe was complete. The A-36 was accurate because the dive brakes, deployed BEFORE dive, enabled airspeed in 350_mph range. What IS true, is that AAF named the P-51-NA/Mustang MkIA "Apache" until Kindelberger letter of July 13, 1942. By the time the P-51-NA was in mid production, the name reverted to Mustang also.

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Bill, your book is the best tech/political fighter design book I've ever read. !

[@drgondog]

@@bobsakamanos4469 thank you!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

​@@drgondogNP, it's also refreshing that you shed well researched light on social media to reveal the truths of the complex relationships between NAA, the USAAC/USAAF departments and the Brit organizations/RAF/RR etc. Facts people will never see elsewhere. Ford & Marshall, "P-51B Mustang..." excellent book.

[@drgondog]

@@bobsakamanos4469 my co-author Lowell Ford and the XP-51G savior John Morgan passed last Friday

[@WilliamWallace-l2b]

No slack in light attack!👍👍

[@klassyedward9718]

Wow, our early aviator's had so much fun when the aircraft were still in their early development!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Combat is not fun. Addictive maybe.

[@chpet1655]

A Cake reference is always welcome in a WWII aircraft video

[@worldofwarbirds]

Yes! I'm loving the commenters who picked it up!

[@juanperez2164]

I’m a simple man I find warbird content I subscribe

[@Bikedueder]

I LOVED this fuselage style!! Better than the bubble top. Of course I was a fan of the P-40 as well. The P-47 was definitely a workhorse and a beast, but it always looked kind of tubby to me. The P-39 was just odd.

[@anim8torfiddler871]

Thank you for sharing the development and operational history of the Apache.Absolutely the first acknowledgment of the type I've come across. So many times I've been reminded my ignorance Far Exceeds what I THINK I know!

[@worldofwarbirds]

My pleasure! Glad you liked it.

[@1982joe1982]

90 some % of warbird fans have no idea how early the Mustangs origins ran - also how low ribboned the Senior Pilot and Command Pilot achievers were at the time as indicated by some of the stills of pilots in this video - they actually did it in flight, not in just years of just being there

[@johnmcguigan7218]

I first heard about this when reading Ernie Pyle's great book "Brave Men," where Pyle describes its use in the Italian campaign.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I have "Brave Men" up next on my reading list

[@Croploss]

There was a locally owned (Hollister, CA?) A 36 in original condition that flew in for the Salinas airshows. It was airworthy and definitely an original A 36, not a converted P 51.

[@jackcooper4936]

Ground pounding sister is an … interesting title. Also one of my favorite planes. Great work.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I try not to be a Clickbaiter, but there is something to be said about having an edgy title…did I go too far?

[@jackcooper4936]

@@worldofwarbirds no I don’t think so, it gave me a good LOL.

[@GrizzAxxemann]

@@worldofwarbirds not far enough. 😉

[@wbertie2604]

It's a little bit of a misnomer as a lot of the A-36s actually got used as straight fighter aircraft and had a good tally of air to air kills.

[@Davie-jx4rh]

I love hearing about the mustang’s development, it’s part of what makes it interesting for me One of the most odd parts is the D variant (the most iconic and produced version with its 6 m2s and bubble canopy) wasn’t brought into service until 1944, within the latter 3rd of the war

[@thelandofnod123]

@@Davie-jx4rh It is sometimes difficult to comprehend how quickly some of these developments were. When you look at how different the Mustang I to A-36 to P-51A then to B/C then D/K were, it’s phenomenal that it all took place in, what, 4 years?

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Read the book "P-51B Mustang, by Ford & Marshal, 2020. Best and most accurate history of the Mustang development and collaboration with the Brits.

[@Davie-jx4rh]

@@bobsakamanos4469 interesting

[@old_guard2431]

Well done. This version kind of makes sense if you are stuck with the Allison without a workable turbocharger. You aren’t going to get the performance at altitude, particularly important in Europe. A mediocre dive bomber with enhanced capability for self-defense seems to have a function, also. Well, then the Thunderbolt comes in. (Never mind, carry on.)

[@DogVonDobie]

It was an excellent dive-bomber. The supercharger of the Allison in the A-36 was optimized for low-altitude based on mission requirements. The Allison with just a single-speed single-stage wasn't a higher altitude engine anyway.

[@drgondog]

The V-1710-87 was a base engine (Just like P-38 base engine) - but delivered much more power than the -39. It was always designed for SL to approx 7000 feet operational envelope/

[@DogVonDobie]

@@drgondog All Allisons in all Mustangs had a supercharger, just like the P-38, just like the P-39. It was a single-stage, single speed supercharger. The Merlin 1650 engines installed in the P-51B, C, and D were mechanically driven two-stage, two-speed, superchargers allowing for more power at higher altitude. The Allison wasn't designed that way and to achieve the additional power required at high-altitude, an additional stage to be "plugged" in behind the engine. The Mustang didn't have the room for it. Turbo units install on production P-38's another story. Same with the P-39/P-63

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

old-guard Only the P38 and the P47 fighters used a TURBOcharger in wwII, B17 and B24 only Bombers !!!

[@old_guard2431]

@@wilburfinnigan2142 kind of my point: three were designed for turbochargers, including the P-39 : two got them, not including the P-39. An effective multi-stage, multi speed supercharger would have done, but the P-39 didn’t get that either.

[@vinmar4551]

Very nice historical. Many thanks for keeping our honorable U.S. history alive.

[@worldofwarbirds]

This channel aims to keep all nations' avaition history alive! Thanks for the comment.

[@DogVonDobie]

The NA-73/-83 Mustang was not lend-lease. It was purchased outright by the British. When the British purchased these aircraft, lend-lease wasn't a factor. I don't believe it became one for the Mustang until the NA-91/Mustang Ia batch. NAA did NOT call the A-36 the Apache! Neither did the USAAF. The reason why the A-36 was called a Mustang, is because that is what it was, a Mustang. In July of 1942, Dutch Kindelberger wired the head of the Public Relations Branch of the USAAF and suggested the name "Mustang" for all fighters of P-51 type, which had long been used by the British. The name Apache mistakenly comes from the usage of that name in-house by NAA for their new pursuit aircraft, the NA-73. This was the design made for the British that they named Mustang, NOT the NA-97, which was the A-36A made for the USAAF. The name Apache was picked up and publicized up by newspapers and magazines of the day for the new NA-73 design, long before the A-36 was manufactured. Apache was not adopted officially or unofficially by either by NAA or the USAAF for the A--36. That name was only unofficially adopted by NAA in-house for the original NA-73 design. The British borrowed six A-36As from the US in the MTO and used them as recon platforms. Mostly out of Malta Tunisia, and Sicily. I don't think they had any left to be based in Foggia. The diagram at 11:50 showing a P-51A - Mustang Ia, is incorrect. The equivalent to the P-51A was the Mustang II. The name Apache, seems to have worked its way backwards to the A-36A from myths promulgated after the war. You will find the A-36A inaccurately referred to as the Apache all over the internet (as in this video) in some books (I have a couple) and other publications. Even in museums and on model airplanes. I have not seen any wartime evidence for this name applied to the A-36A, only evidence to the contrary.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I plan on releasing a quickie video addressing this concern.

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

The thing with Kelsey, who had been flying since he was 15, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_S._Kelsey was that he had an Engineering degree from MIT and had participated in their Aeronautical Engineering Studies after graduating. So - he was only a Lt. but he was an educated and experienced one. The problem was - he couldn't be everywhere at once. He had wanted them to put a Supercharger on the P-39 - but - in his absence while in Europe - NACA did a wind tunnel test on it that determined that the scoop for the Supercharger was causing drag which was slowing the plane down - so they took the Supercharger out. Kelsey said that he regretted not having been available to scotch that decision as it made the P-39 worthless at anything over 15,000 ft. The United States was completely unprepared for WWII - and this is only one of a vast number of things that indicate how unprepared it was. Another such situation was how they had to take the Mustangs - which were totally unsuited to ground attack - and make Dive Bombers out of them - to keep them in production. .

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for all those extra details!

[@alancranford3398]

There were reasons for the restrictive Army Regulations on pursuit aircraft starting with the Bomber Mafia using that deadly #2 pencil to regulate away any potential competition for air force funds. "The bomber will always get through" when Army Regulations prohibited supercharging pursuit aircraft engines, prohibited armaments heavy enough to take down a bomber, prohibited putting bombs on pursuit aircraft, prohibited drop tanks to extend pursuit aviation range... I claim that weapons procurement is 90% politics, 9% logistics and actual battlefield performance is only 1% of the influence. Navy funds developed the AN/M2 caliber .50 machine gun--the Army was satisfied with the .30 caliber. Your research on the Apache A-36 is informative and entertaining. Don't forget--Army aviation was traditionally named after Indian tribes. Yes, there were other naming conventions--traditions are more of a suggestion than a carved-in-stone law. Today's Army Apaches are the AH-64.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Yup. I did mention AH-64. Any idea when this tradition started?

[@drgondog]

@@worldofwarbirds Pre-Vietnam entry by US. IIRC the Bell model 204 Huey was the first - named Iroquois. That said the Bell 209 was always Cobra.

[@drgondog]

Hmm - partially correct and only for pre-December 7th. You may recall that the P-38 and XP-39 were both specified with 37mm cannon and turbo supercharged Allisons. The P-37, P-40 both had supercharged Allison V-1710 (single stage, single speed). The Army was dissatisfied w/30 caliber and split the production 50/50 with USN for the Hispano II licensed production. That said, USAAF repeatedly rejected 20mm for armament in most fighters save, P-38 and P-61 and P-400. In 1940 Arnold changed the priority for a 1500 mi escort fighter from 4 to 1 on Emmons Board recommendations. In February/March 1942 Arnold set high priority on Increase Range of Fighter, Attack and Light Bomber Range - The Fighter Aircraft Range Extension Program, (FAREP) led by MG Muir Fairchild drove both Combat drop tanks AND increased internal fuel. Materiel Command can be faulted for slow development of combat drop tanks - but directly responsible for the 85gal fuse tank on P-51B, 55gal LE tanks on P-38J and eventually on adding 65gal to main tank on P-47D-25 - due to Republic design issues that were partially solved much later by -25 then completely resolved with P-47N.

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@drgondog Ref the earlier stonewalling of NAA by Mat Command, it's almost like Echols was a puppet for GM.

[@drgondog]

@@bobsakamanos4469 GMC was responsible for shutting down installing Merlin in late 1941, but I believe that the failure by MC/Echols to buy Mustang was his rage at NAA for not agreeing to build P-40s for BPC. He was coerced by Plans and ultimately Arnold to order A-36, then P-51A. IMO Echols was removed from acquisition authority in late 1942. Development authority was ceded to Plans & Operational Requirements with interested 'guidance' from Arnold. Both the Mustang resistance and the failure to shut down the XP-75 when it was a clear failure, contributed to his career ending at Major General and subsequent departure from AAF just after end of WWII. .

[@jameycreel9330]

War is a racket

[@SoloRenegade]

10:25 one hit to either of the two ventrally located oil cooler radiators on a p-47, and the engine was done within 5min. One hit to the P-47 rudder or elevator control cables, and it was done. Hurricane, Typhoon, P-40, Mosquito, Ju-87, IL-2, and MANY more equally had these same exact vulnerabilities, yet are never equally criticized. Many Mustangs shot down were not due to hitting the radiators. For example, Preddy was hit by two bullets to his person directly, and he belly landed successfully, was taken to a field hospital and died of his wounds.

[@worldofwarbirds]

"Hurricane, Typhoon, P-40, Mosquito, Ju-87, IL-2, and MANY more equally had these same exact vulnerabilities, yet are never equally criticized." It's true and they were all used in this role...I wonder what it is about the Mustang that draws the critique?

[@SoloRenegade]

@@worldofwarbirds the Mustang truly was the top fighter of WW2, it was amazing. when you're the best at anything, people criticize and challenge you mercilessly out of jealousy and competition. They will nit pick and seek to find and exaggerate any and all flaws or perceived flaws in an attempt to dethrone you. The fact you bring this up is extremely uncommon among discussions I have about teh P-51. Not many people are willing to give the P-51 a fair shake, as you just demonstrated in this comment. SO thank you for that. I have been researching WW2 fighters intensely for for many years now, and have even challenged and beat Greg on certain arguments (overall he does an amazing job, but on the P-47 range 'conspiracy' I proved him wrong, using the very sources he cited, but he left out critical details from those sources and he failed to take into account the larger logistical and planning conditions that also affected the A-36).

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@worldofwarbirds Ignorance and EGO's !!!!

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@SoloRenegade TRUE!!!!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

The massive P-47 turbo system & ducting, heat exchanger was very vulnerable. Once hit, the Jug would limp home low level on its supercharger, leaving bombers exposed.

[@klassyedward9718]

I had to stop a gentleman wearing a p-51 hat, he surprised and wowed me with some short stories as a fighter pilot in WWII.

[@reidveryan9414]

It wasn't a comprehensive WWII aircraft that I had when I was a kid. I must be one of the few who has heard of it

[@greggpennington966]

Im amazed ! Until today , i had never heard of the A36 Apache. Fighter ? Ground Attack ? Close Air Support ? What mission was it designed to carry out ? Fascinating !

[@worldofwarbirds]

All of the above!

[@SoloRenegade]

4:50 the MkI, MkIa Mustangs already had tested carrying bombs, rockets, and Cannon pods as well.

[@infame27]

dont do the p51. Focus on episodes of more unknown aircraft, everyone already knows a lot about the popular planes like the p51 and I would love to learn more about the lesser known aircaft like your series on the German Amerikabomber project

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks! I love looking at the oddballs and sharing them with you.

[@tireballastserviceofflorid7771]

Or maybe do an episode on all of them.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@tireballastserviceofflorid7771You should definitely do that

[@tireballastserviceofflorid7771]

@@guaporeturns9472 No, you should.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@tireballastserviceofflorid7771 Already have Educate yourself

[@sim.frischh9781]

Life is short. Eat dessert first.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Haha! I’ll have the P-51 with ice cream.

[@benbrassard4974]

I’d like to see your take on the P-47. I live near where they made a ton of them. The Thunder Jug was a hell of a war bird.

[@worldofwarbirds]

It's on the list! Make sure your're subscribed to not miss anything.

[@thomasmitchell7645]

I had my suspicions that this was the plane that you were going to talk about--the original Mustang. But it was very informative with all your stats on dive speeds.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Not the original Mustang that title goes to the Brits Mk I & MkIA !!!! The first production runs of 620 planes the 500 A36 Apache was the follow on model for the USAAC.....time line !!!

[@paulking7019]

I fly RC planes and have two P-51Ds and a P-51B. The A 36 Apache seems to be very rare when it comes to building a flying model aircraft. I have often thought of modifying my P-51B into an Apache and it should not be that difficult to do. Functional dive breaks in the wings would be the most difficult thing to add. I would need to cut into the balsa covering and then recover both wings. Molding a new nose cowling is easier and can be done with heat and a plastic 2 liter soda bottle of all things. I have never done this because the P-51B/C is also rarely modeled itself. There are far too many P-51Ds. They bore me.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I’d love to see that in action!

[@paulking7019]

@@worldofwarbirds If you do a search on youtube you can see an RC P-51B like the one I have. I lost my drop tanks. I could easily come up with bombs to replace them. Just Search for E-Flite Platinum Series P-51B Mustang 32e. Eflite has discontinued this plane. I like stuff I can fit in my car easily. Thank you for your interest!

[@Mapster2001]

I’ve played over 1000 hours of warthunder and the a36 was my introduction into the P51 line, and probably the first time I REALLY enjoyed a plane and got into the air trees. I STILL didn’t know the a36 had air brakes until today. I genuinely thought it was the pre-production/test plane version of the p51

[@worldofwarbirds]

Are you able to able to deploy the dive brakes in the game? I only just started playing.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Mapster Pay attention, one of the main differences of the A36 Apache !!!

[@CartGoBroom]

same here, never had used the air brakes in the game, as far as i know it doesnt have

[@creepermariguano942]

@@CartGoBroom it has

[@ultimobile]

interesting - thank you !

[@shawncarroll5255]

I sadly do not recall the source, whether it was a video or interviews with pilots who flew them in Italy. They commented that the very high pullout speed and steep angle of attack compared to other allied aircraft meant that anti-aircraft fire had a tendency to trail the actual position of the aircraft badly enough that it was mostly ineffective against them. Even though doctrinally it didn't happen, it would have been interesting if the Army Air Corps had trained and deployed the A36 against Japanese shipping in the Pacific theater. I'm especially thinking around the Eastern Solomons and New Guinea.

[@MarkkuKoljonenwTinja]

Thanks!

[@TheGulfwind]

My father, Colonel Robert C. Paul was commander of the 86th Bomb group from August 1942 to December 1943 in Italy. They were equipped with the A-36 Apache

[@worldofwarbirds]

Hello and thanks for commenting! Do you know if they actually referred to it as the "Apache"? I've discovered (with the release of this episode) how big of a controversy it is!

[@thelandofnod123]

@@TheGulfwind Do you know what his and the Groups thoughts on it were?

[@tobiasGR3Y]

Me: Yeah, it makes sense he wants to cover the P51 later. I can be patient. Brian: “I’ll even cover the Cavalier.” Me: *well what the fuck is the Cavalier?!*

[@worldofwarbirds]

Haha! "Always leave them wanting more", right?

[@TheMlgFox]

I really enjoyed your take on this plane, looking forward to more obscure planes in the future. Subscribed!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Welcome aboard!

[@andygray9285]

Nice job thanks.

[@worldofwarbirds]

You’re Welcome Andy! I always look for your comment!

[@215618680]

Very entertaining episode! (Great tongue in cheek humor too.) 😂

[@worldofwarbirds]

I'm glad you appreciated it. Not everyone does!

[@andrewwaterman9240]

In his book "Brave Men" Ernie Pyle devotes a chapter to his stay with an A-36 squadron in Italy. Very interesting reading.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks. I've added it to my library app reading list.

[@jerryumfress9030]

A-36 Allison engine, plus the carburetor and the fact that the earlier engines had float problems the A-36 was put into the ground attack role

[@DogVonDobie]

@jerryumfress9030 Early on, the Merlin engines (also a carbureted engine) had float problems. Is this what you're referring to? The A36 was created (developed might be a better word) for the ground attack role from the outset. The Allison in the A-36 was optimized for low altitude performance. If you wouldn't mind, please explain what the float problems were with regard to the Allison in the A-36.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

jerryumfress ALL Allison engines starting n 1938 had the Bendix pressure carb, no float, basically a ventui injector never a problem. the Carb Packard used from the start when they started building the Merlin 20series for the Brits, which the Brits got around to in Late 1942 with the 2 stage Merlin 60...

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@DogVonDobie The Allison NEVER had a float problem as it did not use a float carb, it used the Bendix pressure carb, no float !!

[@johnf3f810]

Back in 1942 my father's squadron (RAF 225) were issued Mustang 1 aircraft. Apparently the pilots liked them due to their relatively high speeds at low altitude and range. In his Squadron photograph the "Chin Guns" are installed but look like the shorter .30 caliber guns, perhaps they ad .50 guns in the wings?

[@worldofwarbirds]

I think the wing 50s were standard but maybe the chin 30s were a field mod?

[@johnf3f810]

@@worldofwarbirds I simply don't know. The .50 chin guns stick out a bit but these were almost flush with the aircraft skin - which is why I thought they might be .30. Either way they served well.

[@wbertie2604]

The Mustang I standard armament was 4 50s, including the chin, and 4 303s. IA had 4 20mm.

[@DogVonDobie]

@@wbertie2604 Actually, the Brits kept the Browning .30's and did not change to the .303's.

[@wbertie2604]

@@DogVonDobie yes, my error.

[@thelandofnod123]

Intro music induces parade PTSD, especially when you’re the last SQN and know you’re going to be waiting a very, very long time to step off.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Sorry about that! As former Black Watch, the "Black Bear" by pipes and drums would do it to me!

[@ivanhicks887]

Very Very Interesting Presentation - I am 91 Korean War Vet Thankyou

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thank you for your service and I am glad that you enjoyed it!

[@ivanhicks887]

@@worldofwarbirds Thankyou

[@richardwitt4342]

I had an opportunity to fly in the A-36. Howeve I chose to go with the B17 because I was with a companion. Anyway I was very interested in this plane because of talk (by pilots referring to ""the 2-seat P-51" I argued that no combat P-51 ever had 2-seats. While this vid exposes the facts, not many of these guys just never heard of the A-36!

[@Tireledhwen]

Good grief Charlie Brown, this thing was SCREAMING when it hurtled to the Earth lmfao

[@ronsstewart4787]

thanks for the Canadian AF march intro...

[@peebeedee6757]

@ronsstewart4787 : It's the long established Royal Air Force 'March Past' from 1918 but our Canadian brothers are most welcome to also use it.

[@worldofwarbirds]

You're welcome. How did you know it was the RCAF version? I think the RAF one is the same!

[@peebeedee6757]

@@worldofwarbirds Composed by Walford Davies with elements from music of the Royal Flying Corp and the Royal Naval Air Service, at the conception of the RAF. I marched around to ths during my 14 years service in the latter !

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@peebeedee6757 me too, for 30 years.

[@cambium0]

Fascinating content well presented. Hunchbacked Mustangs look a bit like P-39's. I think they lost the hunchback around the p-51C model and beyond. Now here's so much more info. Great post.

[@DogVonDobie]

???

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

P51 A through P51B/C were razor backs the P51 D/K introd the bubble canapy and new thicker wing to accomodate the 50's to stand up and not layed over and prone to jamming in High G manuevers !!

[@randalc6118]

Greetings from Drayton Valley Alberta Canada. Thanks for doing this aircraft. Please keep up the good work, Love your content

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for watching! There’s more to come!

[@g54b95]

This was good. Never heard of this. I don't think you're some AI bot at this point. I subscribed.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for the sub! I'm def not an AI Bot, although maybe my work would get done faster if I was...

[@tomtruesdale6901]

Great history lesson. Thank you for sharing.

[@danmcdonald9117]

Cake reference, nice!

[@worldofwarbirds]

I’m glad some people got the reference!

[@michaelbray6010]

Nice content and nice pace of delivery. Btw, I always thought it was Gypsie Rose Lee who said "Always leave them wanting more". Or Mae West. But you were right. Not what I expected to learn from your video, but learning is learning.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I think I could do an episode on just that quote and who may or may not have said it!

[@michaelbray6010]

@@worldofwarbirds I was so sure that I almost 'corrected' you... luckily I checked Mr. Internet first, saving me from talking out of my butt. This has shaken my faith in burlesque mavens!

[@curiousuranus810]

I understand, when they first got it, the RAF had the Mustang pegged for ground attack.

[@nostradamus7648]

Probably because the early versions had a non-turbo carbureted engine that was only good for low altitude attacks. The ingenuity of stuffing the Merlin engine into the Mustang was brilliant and transformed it into a high altitude, long range fighter.

[@DogVonDobie]

@curiousuranus810 The Brits "pegged" it for low altitude photo-recon and army co-operation. It did on occasion attack ground targets of opportunity, bit its primary role was AC and PR.

[@DogVonDobie]

@@nostradamus7648 If I understand your use of the term "turbo" as interchangeable with supercharged (apologies if I misunderstood), the Allison engine had a single-stage, single-speed supercharger. The engine was optimized for low altitude, where it had excellent performance. The Merlin was also carbureted, but in the case of such installations as in the P-51B and later Spitfires, it was a TWO-stage, TWO-speed supercharger, giving it the high-altitude performance.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@nostradamus7648 Hey dummy, only the P38 and the P47 used a TURBOCHARGED engine ,which fed a mechanical supercharge for a 2 stage, most engines had a single stage SUPERCHARGER untill the 2 stage MECHANICAL superchargers intro'd !!! timeline and labeling,,,,DUUUUHHH!!!! ALL Allison engines had a single stage mechanically driven supercharger!!!

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@DogVonDobie Most people do NOT understand that the Merlin was not ALWAYS a 2 stage supercharged engine only the late 60 series that introd in LATE 1942 had it and only for the spitfire and LATER mosquitos. of the 20,000 $hitfires made only 8,000 had the 2 stage supercharger !!! TIME LINE !!!

[@Renshen1957]

A total of 500 A-36 dive bombers served in the Mediterranean and Southeast Asia theaters during World War II before being withdrawn from operational use in 1944. As fighting intensified in all theaters where the A-36A operated, the dive bomber began to suffer an alarming loss rate with 177 falling to enemy action. One Ace out of 81 kills, not unusual for ground attack aircraft. That's a kill to loss ratio of 0.45 to 1. The one "Achilles' heel" of the A-36A, P-51A and the entire Mustang series remained the ventral-fuselage location of the radiator/cooling system. Why the USAF used F-51 in Korea, when National Guard possessed F-47 being the late model variants in the US. The Jugs were more rugged and equal range. Yes, there were more F-51's, but the F-47 had a better record for low level, more reliable power plant and could carry more bombs for close support missions. The F-51 in Korean service suffered in the similar altitudes that the A-36 and dive brakeless P-51A (used in the same mission). According to one veteran pilot at the lower altitude for ground attack, a P-40 could turn inside the P-51 in a turn.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Although I had a comment above that a whole series of ground attack aircraft (Hurricane, Typhoon, P-40, Mosquito, Ju-87) all had the same-type cooling system and never get grief for it. It really makes me wonder....

[@ScoopsTV]

​@worldofwarbirds yeah but that all had higher loss rates then the aircooled p47 and fru

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@worldofwarbirds it's only because of the P-47 fanboys who are defensive about the Jug's lack of range which caused so many bombers to be shot down in 1943-44.

[@gowensbach2998]

Very much enjoyed this video. Thank you sir, Well done!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you liked it.

[@TheBruces56]

It's not "Whispering Death", it's "Whistling Death" which is what the Japanese called the F4U Corsair. Apparently due to the characteristic whistle it made when close.

[@worldofwarbirds]

"Whispering Death" was the supposed Japanse nickname for the Beaufighter. The story is that the sleeve-valves were more quiet- but I can't see how two 1,500 hp Bristol Hercules engines could ever be described as "whispering"!

[@TheBruces56]

@@worldofwarbirds Interesting, I never heard that. Thanks for the feedback.

[@MortonBartlett-yy3cn]

​@@worldofwarbirdsApparently when the Beau was approaching from head on it was much quieter

[@peebeedee6757]

@TheBruces56 : Ever heard a Japanese try to say Whispering ?

[@TheBruces56]

@@peebeedee6757 Lol...I'm sure they said "Rispering death"

[@hctim96]

Tnx for the history lesson. Never heard of the A-36 or whence it came...cheers!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Many folks have said as such and I'm glad to help spread the knowledge.

[@jamesmoore9511]

A friend of my parents flew A-36 out of Italy in World War II - got shot down, but Partisan got him out of Yugoslavia and back to Italy.

[@brianperry]

Leonard Cheshire VC flew an early version of the Mustang….with a spitfire type bubble canopy. He used it as a target marker aircraft for heavy bombers….

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Not bubble canopy but a "Malcom hood" !!!!

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

1 or 2 of the first order of Mustangs for the RAF were diverted to the USAAF for testing.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

neiloflongbeck 2 were per the original Brit contracts....and they sat at wright field untested for a while !!! DUUUUHH!!!!

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

@wilburfinnigan2142 so, what that they just sat there for a while? Delivered as required. If Wtpright Field didn't want them or have the capacity to test them, that's their problem.

[@bacarnal]

Great video!! Looks like this was the Army's equivalent of the F4-U Corsair.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you liked it! It was a limited-run aircraft though and certainly didn't have the long service life of the F4U!

[@skipperclinton1087]

@bararnal: Not even close. You give the P-40 more credit than it deserves and not nearly enough to the F4U. Check out kill ratios between the two, especially when used by the Australians in the SWPA. P-40's to A6M zeros. Same deal when the AVG group used them against the Japanese. The tactics were, get above the Japanese, pouce as you go through a formation trading altitude for speed and use it to regain the altitude. Rinse and repeat!

[@DogVonDobie]

The Army equivalent of the F4U Corsair was more like the P-47.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@skipperclinton1087 P40 was around before the F4U Corsair, more produced and used all through to the end of the war !!! Nothing wrong with it if used properly !! !

[@georgemallory797]

I learned something new. I'm amazed and delighted. Great video.

[@richardritter6025]

Really nice video… I did not know of this Apache! Thank you

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you liked it!

[@robert506007]

The USAF museum is a Great Museum and I saw that A-36

[@worldofwarbirds]

I've got to get out to it one day! My collaborator was there this summer and loved it.

[@Purvis-dw4qf]

Most airplane nicknames were post-war writers' inventions. This is probably true of the forktail devil and the invader. The A-36 was a good airplane. It had an excellent low-altitude performance.

[@jasonnaimie5465]

thank you for doing this video. i will watch again. no P51 mustangs, will i watch. any other u.s. air craft is fine, not the P51 mustang. thank you again

[@monkeyboy2076]

Currently working on a trials version of an A36, tail no. AM106, which trialed the Vickers S 40mm guns carried by the Hurricane.

[@DogVonDobie]

Would love to see the completed project. What scale?

[@colinford6456]

AM106 is not an A-36. It is a NA-83 Mustang I of the second production batch used by the Royal Air Force A&AEE trials unit for a series of trials on what they called the "low attack wing". It was purely modifications, primarily strenthening of the Mustang I wing to carry external stores below the wing. It was used alongside a couple of other modified Mustang I aircraft to trial the carriage of bombs, rockets, supply cannisters, smoke/gas dispensers and the Vickers S 40mm guns. The general look of AM106 changed over time as the trials occurred and changes to its configuration took place as a part of the trials eg withthe nose mounted 0.50in HMGs fitted, then removed and the holes in the lower cowlings doped and painted over.

[@DogVonDobie]

@@colinford6456 missed it completely😖

[@monkeyboy2076]

@@DogVonDobie 1/72

[@carlpopkins4]

Planes of Fame Museum, located in Chino, CA. , I think, still has one.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Really? Good to know,

[@BogeyTheBear]

'Apache' in French referred to a notorious criminal enterprise who were in force some thirty years earlier. Maybe that's the reason for resistance against the name in Europe and French-held North Africa.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Really! I had no idea. Thanks for this.

[@Paladin1873]

I've read it was common practice to wire the dive brakes closed.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Supposedly this was only in a training context and wasn't a widely-down thing.

[@dizdizzy8937]

Great show!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks!

[@rose415]

I’m sure you know that you mentioned Cavaliers but showed piper enforcer. Ty for video

[@worldofwarbirds]

Ooops that one got by me! Thanks for pointing it out!

[@RonaldLivingston-n2d]

Way to cool 😎 . I've never heard of this one 🤔 The p47 was better for the job but the A36 is cool looking with the fins !

[@JosephMitchell-zw3db]

Thanks

[@jalopywrench]

Very good. I just found your channel and I'm glad I did. It's now on my list.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Welcome aboard!

[@jalopywrench]

@@worldofwarbirds thank you

[@kiwidiesel]

Definitely subscribed and the 20mm hispano cannon model the British had would have been a savage surprise.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thank you for joining us!

[@DogVonDobie]

The US also used that version.

[@youdontneedtoknow6621]

Hey man, I would really like it if you did a video on the British observatory aircraft Auster 4. I have a bit of history with this one myself. My mums partner bought one back in 2019 when his love military equipment became its strongest. He kindly invited me to help him clean and taxi the only remaining one of its kind in the uk. And remains one of the best experiences of my life sitting in a real WW2 aircraft that saw service in D-day and was one of first British aircraft in Berlin. If you do get around to making a video on this marvellous aircraft and want more history on the the one I say I will be happy to send you any more history I can. All the best, apologies for the long winded comment. 😊

[@ronjones1077]

Great content!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@chrismitchell446]

Great video! Earned a subscriber.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Welcome aboard!

[@georgestemple3310]

New subscriber great story hopefully will have that soon

[@cgrscott]

The A-36 looks like the early razorback version of the P-51.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

cgrscott well DUUUUUUUHHHHHHH !!!! It is !!!!! Pay attention !!! The ears don't work when your mouth is blabbering Bull$hit !!!!

[@nosaltadded2530]

I thought I already knew this story. I was wrong.

[@thelandofnod123]

Mustang I was pre lend lease. Bought with good old fashioned hard currency.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

thelandofod true but only 320 of them the Mustang MK II was lend lease and all following, close to 3,000 Mustangs of various Mks !! !