Join the TimeGhost Army: bit.ly/WW2_202B_PI We're only able to do double episodes like this, which really cover the war comprehensively, thanks to the resources provided by all of you in the TimeGhost Army. Join now so we can take on this war in ever more detail!
@rosaguevara97662 жыл бұрын
Is this the vreat tank battle?
@Yamato-tp2kf2 жыл бұрын
And this is the tank battle that created the the legend of the German tank ace Wittman
@robertjarman37032 жыл бұрын
Fields of Prokhorovka Where the heat of battle burned Suffered heavy losses And the tide of war was turned Driving back the Germans Fighting on four fronts Hunt them out of Russia Out of Soviet land
@Shauma_llama2 жыл бұрын
I've gone back to my keyboard and writing code, sending messages, and resisting the urge to be overly-dramatic in my messages. Still pumped up. One wonders about the emotion on the Soviet side that next morning. They lived through a titanic struggle, they stopped the Germans in their tracks, and the Germans are withdrawing. This summer will not see the Nazi armies rampaging across the Russian countryside. Now, they drive the narrative, they call the shots!
@oasis12822 жыл бұрын
My great grandfather was killed during the advance to Orel
@eleanorkett11292 жыл бұрын
The TimeGhost army, with this episode, outdid even your best selves. Your ability to describe such a battle with such clarity is indeed an achievement. Prokhorovka lives on in memory as one of the most horrific armored battles of all times and enabled the Russians to take and hold on to the initiative until the end of the war. Bravo for great work.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks @Eleanor Kett! There isn't another group out there who do things quite like Indy and our production team do 🙂
@CrasusC2 жыл бұрын
Like Andy has pointed out before, “Soviets”, not “Russian”, as the Russians only accounted for slightly more than half of the manpower of the Red Army.
@cde99522 жыл бұрын
Technically it was a series of battles but yeah
@francomundkowsky49132 жыл бұрын
But your source is outdated. IT is the narrativ of the sowjet victory. The german armor losses where only 5 Tanks compared to more than 100 of the soviet side. They lost them on there on tank Tranch. This Was no battle, this was a sloughter.
@Nickleby-je4qd2 жыл бұрын
@@francomundkowsky4913 actually I haven't heard any mentions of "soviet victory" by Indy. Although the definitions of victory may be different. The most common is battlefield possession, but sometimes it's about objectives done. So neither side at Prokhorovka could claim victory clearly. Germans didn't break through and retreated, the soviets have lost a lot of tanks, but overall situation looks more like soviet victory, I think. There are a lot of myths about the eastern front. Soviet Army (in 1943 it's not Red anymore, hah) achieved enough victories besides this popular battle. There is no need to invent them
@uncleeric33172 жыл бұрын
Indy’s storytelling is riveting. I’m sure he has a time machine he uses to witness the events firsthand.
@lawrencesmeaton69302 жыл бұрын
Ha, anyone who was there first hand would have had no idea what was going on until a week later.
@TheEvertw2 жыл бұрын
And a high-altitude spy plane to get an overview of what is happening... Or perhaps a satellite.
@jonny-b49542 жыл бұрын
@@TheEvertw But then you would lose the on the ground perspective. You must do both! And more!
@Briguy10272 жыл бұрын
He is my favorite narrator of this channel.
@TheEvertw2 жыл бұрын
@@Briguy1027 no fair! The various sub-channels use different styles on purpose, Indy narrates events like it is a football match which would be wholly inappropriate for for example the WaH.
@HelloFutureMe2 жыл бұрын
I don't often comment, but I want you to know how much this channel has become a part of my regular schedule. Thanks for all your work!
@theamici2 жыл бұрын
same here, always look forward to my saturday history time
@Game_Hero2 жыл бұрын
Too bad there's no bending in these wars. Imagine a channel like this on the wars of the fire nation.
@jadonberg93642 жыл бұрын
Always strange seeing the weird crossovers of interest here
@midnightstudio37422 жыл бұрын
It's wild to see Tim here of all people. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one...
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
I am a KZbin comment bender
@enricototi59062 жыл бұрын
Indy's narration was brilliant as usual. Taking part to this battle must have felt like the whole world was coming to a crushing end
@siddharthbirdi2 жыл бұрын
This battle must have felt truly apocalyptic.
@MrNicoJac2 жыл бұрын
For most, it probably truly did
@chrisstucker18134 ай бұрын
The swan song of the ss. This was their peak and also their end; the three Germanic sister divisions fighting side by side and leaving it all out on the battlefield. Their performances in this battle are simply outstanding.
@johnmayfield76622 жыл бұрын
I haven't 'sat on the edge of my seat' ever in my life. We all know how this offensive ends, but just seeing how close the German were to achieving strategic victories during the offensive has really captivated the audience. Of course the amazing writing and the passionate performance by Indy coupled with the delicately crafted maps , animations and cut outs seals this as one of the best and most documentaries on this battle that i have ever seen. This is better than all tv style documentaries out there.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much @John Mayfield
@TukozAki2 жыл бұрын
Indeed -- though the Soviets had prepared this to such a point that nothing the Wehrmacht could do would have been able to achieve more than a tactical victory. But yes, amid all the work at hand, here the selection of quotes (from both sides) and their narration makes for a truly amaaazing moment, documentary and memory. ty Markus, ty Indy.
@XXStoogieXX2 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't really say they were close to a strategic victory at all. It was almost an operational victory, but even if they achieved an encirclement of that force south of Prokhorovka, it's unlikely they could have actually cleared that pocket with the extreme pressure on their flanks. With Model's withdrawal in the north of the Kursk salient, Manstein's southern force was pissing into the wind. With all that considered, even if the Germans had cleared the pocket, nothing would have changed at a strategic level. Model would still be in retreat. Manstein's forces would be bogged down clearing the pocket while the Soviets would be filling the gap with the reserves they still possessed. Manstein's remaining forces were exhausted, disorganized, depleted, and what little strategic surprise they had was gone.
@billcarruth81222 жыл бұрын
The farther into Russia the Germans got the worse their logistics situation became. The bigger the battles the more they fell behind in terms of attrition. Paying too high a price for victories left them vulnerable to counter attack. German military accomplishments were pretty impressive if you look at them individually, but with the complete lack of a global strategy none of this was ever going to work. Russia is so immense that they have always been able to count on their number one ally to join the battle before being totally over run, namely winter.
@chrisstucker18132 жыл бұрын
Prokhorovka was basically “the operation was a success but the patient died” from the German perspective lol. The three Germanic SS divisions were kicking ass during this battle.
@CatNostril2 жыл бұрын
The surprise B episodes will always be my favourites!
@marcustulliuscicero.58562 жыл бұрын
He told there would be two parts😂
@CatNostril2 жыл бұрын
@@marcustulliuscicero.5856 goldfish memory brings a lot of nice surprises 😁
@marcustulliuscicero.58562 жыл бұрын
@@CatNostril 😂
@putlerkaputt92012 жыл бұрын
1945 last april week might even have episodes c and d
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Cat! Stay tuned for more action every single week
@elbeto1912912 жыл бұрын
It feels like I'm witnessing history being made. Even after 79 years have passed. Thank you team!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
thanks for watching with us @elbeto191291
@rafaeldiazsanchez11 ай бұрын
Dear algorithm, please choose this video every time somebody search for "Kursk battle" or something like that, a human watched it, and it is damn good. Yours truly
@Kay2kGer2 жыл бұрын
Fields of Prokhorovka Where the heat of battle burned Suffered heavy losses And the tide of war was turned
@The_Devil_Himself2 жыл бұрын
Driving back the Germans Fighting on four fronts Hunt them out of Russia, Out of Soviet land
@Broken-bj8ly2 жыл бұрын
Reinforce the front line Force the axis to retreat Send in all the reserves Securing their defeat
@elkingoh45432 жыл бұрын
Soldiers Soviet Union, broke the Citadel! Ruins all the armies, Axis rest in Hell!!
@rbgerald24692 жыл бұрын
@@elkingoh4543 ...The end of the Third Reich grows near, Its time, has come to an end! The end of an era is here, It's time; to attack!!!
@elkingoh45432 жыл бұрын
@@rbgerald2469 😂😂😂😂🤣
@steverennie57872 жыл бұрын
These last two episodes detailing the Battle of Kursk has been riveting and enthralling... thanks so much for putting in so much work! Its great!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Glad that you have enjoyed them @Steve Rennie, thanks for watching with us!
@kinglars22802 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo your Battle of Kursk has many details. really cool. thank you.
@Token_Civilian2 жыл бұрын
This is truly one of your best episodes ever. Incredibly well done Indy. Incredibly well done. Kudo's to the entire Time Ghost Team.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Token Civilian. The TimeGhost Army makes it all possible
@luispt772 жыл бұрын
Indy's narration is simply astonishing. Yet, we will never be able to grasp the sheer scale and horror of this battle. It must have been a spectacle and hell that no one could ever describe. Most likely (and hopefully) the biggest and most ferocious battle in human history.
@dubya852 жыл бұрын
There are some really good first hand account books from the battle out there. The artilery in particular was absolutely devastating
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Luis Thank you for watching
@mrnobody56692 жыл бұрын
When I joined in on this series, Greece was still resisting the Italian invasion and Germany was only plotting its plans in the USSR. Chamberlain had just passed. I can hardly believe that now it's Italy that's being invaded, and Germany's Barbarossa plans feel like distant dreams. It's been such a pleasure to follow the war with you guys, it helped to feed an interest in history that I never knew I had. Thank you for your continued work. I hope I can join the Timeghost army before 1945. If the war lasts that long anyway ;) I guess we'll have to see.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your support watching. Join the TimeGhost Army whenever you're able, and til then tell your friends! www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
@schroedingersdog79652 жыл бұрын
17:27 за родину = "za rodinu" = "for the motherland" A brilliant presentation! Many thanks!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Schroedinger's Dog!
@MikeJones-qn1gz2 жыл бұрын
When an unstoppable force meets an immovable object… I was thinking about this battle starting the other day and all I could picture apart from the tanks was the constant stream of casualties into the medical stations on both side, the worst kind of wounds, gunshots, blown limbs, shrapnel wounds, burns…
@paulonelson83682 жыл бұрын
Seing the pictures of Russian tankers on the Ukranian war of today really shows how tanks can become a steel caldrons
@cde99522 жыл бұрын
It is a moving metal box full of ammo basically.
@canadious69332 жыл бұрын
@@georgecristiancripcia4819 Everyone talks about the immense manpower of the Soviet Army. But what boggles my mind is how they got the guns and ammunition for so many soldiers so quickly after such huge losses of material in 1941. The lend lease acts must have been larger than some claim
@frankiefierro71292 жыл бұрын
@@paulonelson8368 Even during the (Ongoing) Syrian civil war, tanks without infantry support are just steel coffins
@thexalon2 жыл бұрын
@@canadious6933 Remember: Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. And the fact is that in 1941, what they didn't lose was the ability to produce more materiel or draft more troops. Also, they're fighting on their own territory, which gives them an advantage in moving stuff to where it's needed.
@Gszarco942 жыл бұрын
This is possibly the most dramatic episode so far, love it. Also, Indy's narration is impeccable, as always.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you GS Zarco! We appreciate it
@radishinglad998 Жыл бұрын
5 months later this is still one of absolute favorite episodes. Kursk kind of gets overshadowed in the story of the Eastern Front compared to the harrowing stories of Stalingrad or Leningrad. All of this hellish fighting and truly unimaginable horror in what seems to be a pretty normal village in Russia. Imagine living in that little town and watching the crux of mass armored warfare crash on the place you have called home.
@quinlanels85032 жыл бұрын
My great grandfather was in this battle as a Stuka pilot, he always told my grandmother. “They where always ready, they slaughtered our comrades on the ground.” This hits different 😬😔
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing about your great grandfather. May he rest in peace
@triveonscb8552 жыл бұрын
This is undoubtedly THE BEST episode in this series so far. So great to see Indy and team out performing themselves every time. The sheer depth of this battle couldn't have been put into words any better. Take a bow everyone🙏
@gunman472 жыл бұрын
Been waiting for this extra B episode for a while, a welcome surprise. Prokhorovka reminds me of the many matches I had when playing in the map of the same name in World of Tanks...
@gatling2162 жыл бұрын
It’s one of my favorite maps, but I never seem to win in German tanks for some reason.
@pnutz_22 жыл бұрын
so good they made a special version with more tanks and explosions and planes flying around
@ShigaWSX2 жыл бұрын
I don't know about you guys, but this episode has been the most intense one so far. Indy's way of narrating the battle(s) is simply capturing. I've even had goosebumps all the way through. This episode is one to remember. Thank you.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your kind words and for watching with us @Qu Bird
@bcm89842 жыл бұрын
Incredible.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching
@indianajones43212 жыл бұрын
Did not expect a part B, awesome
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching as always Doctor Jones
@zali132 жыл бұрын
Truly gripping storytelling, good sir. Bravo! You stripped away all the BS of authors like Franz Kurowski and replaced them with the sheer horror of war where steel and fire turn metal and meat into so much red mist and charred remains.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks @Zali! This war is brutal and terrifying and that is how we are going to tell it
@Vanukass2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your great work with this series! This episode was intense. Also greetings from Finland. At this time of the war, I guess our soldiers were mainly still manning the trenches along our border with soviets, waiting to see which side would prevail.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Vanukass Thank you for watching 🇫🇮
@macleunin2 жыл бұрын
Man, no one can beat Indy’s narration of the ferocity of battle, I stayed on the edge of my seat the whole time!
@LLopes2 жыл бұрын
AMAZING episode. This was, dare I say it, the best so far. It is yet another legendary clash between industrial powers like those we saw in WW1. I hate to say this, but I'm a sucker for this. I know about the loss of life, but I cannot deny that it is a spectacle.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
@Mídia Insana It is certainly gripping in both the awe it inspires and its awfulness. We are lucky to have the luxury of viewing it from so far away!
@guillermosobernesspeare60662 жыл бұрын
Today´s script transmited a lot of emotion, really liked it.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching, guillermo. Stay tuned for more every week
@blitzcrieg1012 жыл бұрын
I've heard that Kursk was the biggest tank battle, I just didn't know it was this insane. Armies just losing everything they've been taught and flat out blast eachother, point blank, completely effecting the vision and sound of the area at a very high level. Words can't describe it
@andrejg41368 ай бұрын
I'm almost 40 and have consumed a lot of documentary material around WW1 and 2. How Europe still exists is a minor miracle, to be honest. Almost the entire first half of the 20th Century was like the Gates of Hell itself opening.
@kim-jong-poon2 жыл бұрын
Of all the history channels on all of the KZbins the Time Ghost history channels are by far the best.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Kim Thank you for watching. We also have the best audience
@3DiversionsDeep2 жыл бұрын
I have been to the german tank museum in Munster yesterday, and was completely overwhelmed seeing the tanks there. These machines are truly massive and intimidating. I can't imagine what such a mass of them must've been like.
@abdullahmoiz8151 Жыл бұрын
This is one of my favorite episodes, Indy's storytelling is on another level
@stevekaczynski37932 жыл бұрын
4:16 - minor note on uniform detail - Rotmistrov is wearing a sort of transitional garment common in the Red Army in 1943. An M1935 tunic (turndown collar) updated in line with the new uniform regulations introduced at the start of the year by having the Tsarist-style shoulder boards attached.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Steve, great background info.
@Giveme1goodreason2 жыл бұрын
It honestly never ceases to amaze me how often cities that were pivotal battlefields in WW1 are mentioned time and again in ww2. Perhaps because I listen to the Great War and between 2 wars and ww2 week by week episodes from start to finish and after a month of music start again it piques my interest how I can here something about a city where 50,000 were killed in ww1 and then here about that same city in ww2 having another intense battle. It really show cases how rough it was in some places of the world for well over 50 years.
@bangscutter2 жыл бұрын
And now in 2022, the same cities of Belgorod and Kharkiv appear in war again, albeit at a much smaller scale. But still, for history buffs watching documentaries like this and also following current news, it's unsettling for the same places to come up again in conflict.
@jayjones78912 жыл бұрын
This episode is simply a masterpiece. I cannot express the gratitude I have in the work you guys have done. Growing up, we were never taught in school this much detail about WW2, the battles, the strategies, the people outside of the national leaders/generals than what you guys have put together.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Jay thank you for your support. Stay tuned for even more coverage
@ukaszsikora81612 жыл бұрын
This reminds me an old PC strategic game - Panzer General II. Never gets old! Great story, fabulous commentary. Thank you and keep up the good work.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Łukasz
@oOkenzoOo2 жыл бұрын
On July 12 1943 at 8 a.m., the GC3 "Normandie" fighter group, made up of French airmen fighting alongside the Soviets, was engaged in the Operation Kutuzov, on the Orel salient. Fourteen pilots redeploy to the Khatenki airfield (55 km southwest of Kaluga). Their mission is to escort Pe-2 bombers for an attack on the German lines.
@ДмитрийМоскалец-щ8ю2 жыл бұрын
What is this GC3 "Normandie"? I know about the 1st Normandy Fighter Aviation Regiment
@oOkenzoOo2 жыл бұрын
@@ДмитрийМоскалец-щ8ю The Groupe de Chasse n°3 or GC3 (Figther Group number 3) Normandie, founded on 1 September 1942 in Lebanon, was a Free French fighter group that fought on the eastern front within the 303rd Air Division of the Soviet 1st Air Army. At first it was only made of 14 pilots, 39 mechanics and 6 liaison officers, all volunteers. Later by the end of winter 1943, it will be reorganised into a regiment and, until June 1944,will increase in strenght and size up to 4 squadrons of 58 pilots flying on Yak9 and later Yak3 fighters. The regiment was awarded by decision of Marshal Stalin, in his September 1944 order of the day (which only reaches them on 28 November), the right to bear the name of Niemen for its participation in the battles of the Niemen River during the East Prussia campaign. Thus was born the Normandie-Niemen fighter regiment.
@ДмитрийМоскалец-щ8ю2 жыл бұрын
@@oOkenzoOo Why Fighter Group No. 3? If this is the Normandy fighter squadron as part of the 18th Guards Fighter Regiment? On July 5, 1943, the squadron was transformed into the 1st separate Fighter Aviation Regiment "Normandy". On November 28, 1944, the regiment was awarded the honorary name "Neman". The regiment's date of birth is July 5, 1943, not November 28, 1944. Order on conferring the honorary title of November 28, 1944 No. 0384. In September, they did not assign the name "Nemansky"
@oOkenzoOo2 жыл бұрын
@@ДмитрийМоскалец-щ8ю A "Groupe de Chasse" (abbreviated as GC) is the French language term for "fighter group" or "fighter wing". More literal translations include "pursuit group" (the US term for fighter groups prior to 1942) and "hunting group" (similar to the German language Jagdgruppe or JG). It may include one to four squadrons, each of which comprises 10-12 aircrafts. Normandie was GC3 because it was the 3rd Free French GC formed at that time, GC1 was Alsace (created in september 1941 in Lebanon) and GC2 was Île-de-France (created in october 1941 in Great Britain). GC3 Normandie was formed on 1 September 1942 in Lebanon by order of General de Gaulle to fight in Russia. Indeed, Normandie was first assigned to the 18th Guards Fighter Regiment of the 303rd Air Division of the Soviet 1st Air Army. On 5 July 1943, Normandie received 12 new Yak9 fighters which allowed the creation of a 2nd squadron. Normandie became then a separate force in the 303rd Air Division, outside of the 18th Guards Fighter Regiment. However it was only in 29 December 1943 that Normandie gained the official status of Fighter Regiment R (R for Russian) with 4 squadrons. The name "Niemen" as i said, was awarded by Stalin to the Normandie regiment first in his order of the day in september 1944.... however it was only until 28 November 1944 that the news reached the Normandie regiment itself and it was then they started to use the famous Normandie-Niemen name. At least that's what the sources i have at hand say.
@ДмитрийМоскалец-щ8ю2 жыл бұрын
@@oOkenzoOo Thanks for the explanation. I did not know the history of the Normandy-Neman regiment before the USSR, although I conducted an inspection of it. On July 5, 1943, by order of the General Staff of the USSR Air Force, the Normandy group became "The first separate fighter aviation regiment of "Fighting France"". The commander of the Normandy regiment was Major Pierre Pouillade. The senior commander of the squadron "Rouen" became Lieutenant Gerald Leon and squadron "Le Havre" Captain Didier Begi. Maybe for France and on December 29, 1943, it became a regiment, but in the USSR - on July 5, 1943. I have already written that on November 28, 1944, by order of the Supreme Command No. 0384, the Normandy regiment was awarded the honorary name "Nemansky". If you have other information, please provide links. I was looking at an electronic document.
@davidr10372 жыл бұрын
Great episode
@goldenageofdinosaurs71922 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Marcus-This was fantastic work! And, as always, Indy, thank you for all the work you do👍
@mononoke7212 жыл бұрын
You really put us in that battle with just your vivid narration alone! Sounds like it was an absolute nightmare. Armoured coffins indeed.
@rumrunner80192 жыл бұрын
Awesome content! Keep up the good work.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you rum runner. Keep the rum coming.
@thanos_6.02 жыл бұрын
Indy as such a great talent as a narrator. He really makes history feel alive again.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your support as always @Thanos 6.0
@Ben-fk9ey2 жыл бұрын
This must be the pinnacle of the show and your narration Indy, absolutely enthralling!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Ben!
@gabrielrobles52882 жыл бұрын
That battle was crazy
@petetirp97762 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate the level of detail you include in this episode. It gives the viewer a sense of why something happened rather than just what happened.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for your continued support to our channel!
@perihelion77982 жыл бұрын
Wow! Terrific job, Marcus! At the risk of appearing obsequious, the narration of this episode was awesome. What a joy it is for me to watch these videos. They bring alive events 80 years in the past. Remarkable. War is not a video game, where you respawn when killed. Death is permanent. Injuries last a lifetime. Hell on Earth near Prokhorovka. Kudos to all on this one. Thanks so much.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Perihelion Thank you for your always kind words of support. See you next time my friend
@FelipeJOrtiz2 жыл бұрын
A truly outstanding presentation! Stalingrad: “The end of the beginning” for the Wehrmacht. Kursk: “The beginning of the end” for the Wehrmacht.
@piarpeggio2 жыл бұрын
Been waiting and hyping up this episode in my head ever since this series began. All that expectation and you guys still managed to deliver. Thank you so much!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Piarpeggio We know you've been looking forward to it! Thank you for joining us & please stay tuned
@Supergforce7772 жыл бұрын
The fact that both these nations have this much equipment after years of fighting each other is scary and awe inspiring
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
@Supergforce777 Very good point!
@davidblair9877 Жыл бұрын
Indy & co. did a special on the war economies of the belligerents in WWII (and WWI before that). The numbers are jaw-dropping. As an example, in 1941 the U.S. spent 1.4 percent of GDP on defence. In 1942, that figure jumped to 45 percent. Not 4.5 percent, *45* percent. I don’t even want to think how much war materiel the States could produce today with that kind of spending-or how thoroughly it would wreck the rest of the economy.
@psychobob37062 жыл бұрын
13:16 - anybody else catch Indy's friend flying in for a visit and some screen time? And, as always, fantastic work.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks @Psycho Bob! And Konrad is always watching on, somehow convinced that he could have done better
@Bismarck1442 жыл бұрын
This is an amazing description of the battle. So intense.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, Mark
@nowthenzen2 жыл бұрын
Excellent coverage and vid! Nick Moran the Chieftain pointed out in a vid that if external fuel on a tank combust not much will likely happen because .. tank. if the fire and smoke get drawn in through the air filters or if the flame drips into the engine then thinks might get .. well, emotional for the tank occupants
@jonathanmcalroy86402 жыл бұрын
How the hell do you create an episode like that? Beautifully written and told by Indy as though he were reciting a play. How do you do that? Amazing map work Sietse and Daniel, take the rest of the year off! Well done and thank you!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
@Jonathan McAlroy Thank you so much for your kind words! It takes a lot of work from a lot of experienced and talented people to put these together, and there is no way we'd be able to do this (I mean at all, never mind extra episodes like this!) without the support of the TimeGhost Army, so thanks to all of you out there too!
@danielweiss73962 жыл бұрын
Haha Thanks! :)
@tyetotodile32402 жыл бұрын
Currently rewatching world war one week by week. Your content is,and always has been, an absolute gift to this world. Thank you so much for all that your team and you do.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching through all these weeks of war. Please stay tuned for more, and enjoy your rewatch
@mjs33432 жыл бұрын
An excellent presentation! Thanks!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching with us @MJ S !
2 жыл бұрын
Another very good episode.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Säbelzahnmöwe
@TheSciuzzo2 жыл бұрын
Part B? Oh you sure know how to spoil us Indy.
@Clone-jz4zf2 жыл бұрын
I think an under praised aspect of these episodes is the music in the background throughout. This episode in particular was a masterful use of music in combination with Indy’s stellar storytelling. Good job TimeGhost!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Clone! Our production team works hard on every aspect of these videos. Seeing comments like yours appreciating the sound design warms their hearts. Take care & please stay tuned
@alexhussinger35502 жыл бұрын
Honestly, if you look at the relative casualty numbers, the Germans did astoundingly well at Kursk. Their losses in tanks and heavy guns were something like a quarter of that of the Soviets, but by this point in the war, that is still a winning ratio for the Red Army, especially with the looming threat of the new Italian and potential Western Front opening up.
@dubya852 жыл бұрын
Yep
@lycaonpictus96622 жыл бұрын
The Germans did very poorly at Kursk. They achieved almost none of their objectives and failed to achieve the decisive breakthrough, the entire point of the campaign. Moreover the impact of the defeat, along with the invasion of Sicily by the Western Allies, was that the strategic initiative was ceded permanently to the Allied powers. It all but assured that Germany's defeat in the war would be total. Germany did have some tactical successes, but strategically Kursk was a dismal failure from start to finish and the Germans were at no point close to victory.
@dpeasehead2 жыл бұрын
@@lycaonpictus9662 And their losses at Kursk prevented the Germans from being able to effectively respond to ANY of the long planned series of Soviet summer offensives.
@stevekaczynski37932 жыл бұрын
It is likely that for example the Russians lost more troops in the 1812 campaign than the Grande Armee, not counting civilian losses which were also extensive. But at the end of the day the Grande Armee was virtually destroyed and Napoleon was on borrowed time. Napoleon's reluctant allies, the Prussians and Austrians, went over to the Russian side.
@UltraTotenkopf2 жыл бұрын
*this is not true, since the Wehrmacht and the Red Army adopted different methods for calculating losses in personnel and equipment; I will give an example if the tank of the German tank battalion was seriously damaged and is under long-term repairs in the repair units, then it is not considered as lost in the Red Army with the same option, the tank will be considered lost because of this, in many historical Western publications, the losses of the Red Army are not correctly considered and this has often been speculated on lately! This is where the fantastic number of Red Army tanks lost as a result of the Great Patriotic War comes from. Western analysts voice the number of damaged tanks that were repaired and were recorded as lost in tank units, but do not voice the number returned to service after repair!*
@andyreynolds61942 жыл бұрын
An absolute masterclass of historical storytelling. Thanks so much- especially to Marcus.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Andy
@kronos50142 жыл бұрын
Hello Indy and Crew. First of all I love your Show and am thrilled everytime you release a new Video. Only this specific Video left me with a few Questionmarks floating around. I spent some time learning about Prokhorovka (purely out of curiosity) in the past and had up to this day, a in some ways different Picture of this Battle, shortly summarized by the following statements: 1. Only the Action on July 12th is considered to be this "Battle of Prokhorovka" not the Combat of the following Days (Though i would like to state that i am by no means unhappy that you covered this as well) 2. The Battle on July 12th was not a battle of encounter (?) (The German Term would be: Begegnungsschlacht) but the Soviet Forces attaced a somewhat surprised German Force who had intendet to enter combat much later in the day and therefore weren't prepared for a fight. They managed to beat back the soviets anyways due to bad preperation on the side of the soviets. 3. During this Combat on July 12th the German SS-Units had only minor casualtys in stark Contrast to the soviets who had a verry high deathtoll that day. I'd love to hear your Opinion (or of course the Opinion of the Comment Section) on this matter. Keep up the geat Work and Greetings from Bavaria Kronos Ps. Most of what i have learned about Prokhorovka so far is based on the Work of Dr. Roman Töppel. A german Historien who spent a lot of his time reaserching the Battle of Kursk and who has devoted a lot of time and effort into dissolving the "Myth" of Prokhorovka as he calls it. Just in Case someone is wondering.
@Mortrag2 жыл бұрын
Yeah it is disappointing, that this channel also fell in the myth-trap.
@randallturner90942 жыл бұрын
This was disappointing. :/
@capajo022 жыл бұрын
I thought I was the only one who was very confused here. Glad some others commented with concerns.
@ΧΑΡΗΣΚΟΥΡΗΣ-ψ3ν2 жыл бұрын
Prokofiev's "Battle on the Ice" would fit very well with intense footage from this battle.
@vojtechslezak45532 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the episode. As always, it was too short but thats somethink i have been complaining since 1914 :D But you guys are stil the best World Wars chanel ever. Thank you and Carry on.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much @Vojtěch Slezák! We will carry on until the very last bullet is fired, and probably even beyond that
@vojtechslezak45532 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo when the last bullet is spent we will fix bajonets and charge to glory.
@logancody88412 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Indy. Your telling of this battle was so incredibly vivid and exciting; I practically found myself taking cover behind the sofa. But in all seriousness, it was BRILLIANT!!!!!!!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Logan! Every episode is a great investment of research, time, and money, and we can't do it without your support! Join the TimeGhost Army today and help us make more of these episodes you love! www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
@Nintendo09942 жыл бұрын
Did anyone else notice the fly on Indy's left shoulder at 16:13 ?
@stoatanasov2 жыл бұрын
What a masterpiece. You kept me under pressure until the end. This was one amazing episode. Keep up the amazing work.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Стоян Атанасов Thank you for the very kind words. Our whole crew works hard to bring you these episodes, and comments like yours are wonderful to see. Stay tuned, my friend
@cademaverick12852 жыл бұрын
I love every pic I see of Vatutin lmao. Just a jolly general.
@TheUnslanderable2 жыл бұрын
Exceptional work by Indy and the team! Episodes like this where great detail of the course of battle is divulged are my favorite, especially when they contain stories from the soldiers' perspectives. Excellent writing and narration in this one particularly - what a great watch.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks @The Unslanderable!
@TheSlazzer2 жыл бұрын
strapping gasoline barrels to the side of one's tank actually isn't much of a risk, at least according to trusted tanker Chieftain. Maybe you could consult him and clarify in a "chair of infinite wisdom" episode :D
@Raskolnikov702 жыл бұрын
@@captainhurricane5705 Molotovs are made with a fuel + thickener that allows it to stick to what you throw it at, versus plain fuel which runs off like water and goes out fairly quickly. Not as effective as they're typically shown in Hollywood movies but they do work if you hit the vehicle in the right spot.
@patrickfreeman82572 жыл бұрын
It's truly a testament to the quality of the writing and story telling, to be able to hold my rapt attention while you deliver a tale that we all already know the outcome of. Well done
@korbell10892 жыл бұрын
Manstein: "I want to draw out the soviet armor!" Narrator: "And he got his wish." When I saw that part by Rudolph Von Ribbentrop, I had to do a quick search and found out that, yes he was Joachim's son and also that man had an interesting military career. Thanks Time Ghost for making me search for more information than I really needed! :D
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for taking a keen interest in history, korbell. Never forget
@christophergunn73222 жыл бұрын
Hats off to Markus - smashing prose in this episode!
@bobmetcalfe964010 ай бұрын
God help us, there's a lot of purple prose in the story of that tank battle.
@BarringtonDrive2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Markus!
@c.82762 жыл бұрын
Germans had lost 35 tanks, Soviets - more than 300 in that battle.
@Colin-kh6kp3 ай бұрын
Then what happened?
@wildcolonialman2 жыл бұрын
Fabulous telling.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Simon. Please do stay tuned for more
@ferdinanddelasalle80062 жыл бұрын
For the whole show a good episode. But one important part of the battle was not told. Rotmistrov´s Tanks oversaw a big own buildt trench tank an lost hundreds of tanks running into this trench. They were an easy target for german tankers and antitank weapons.
@captinblow2 жыл бұрын
What a tremendous episode. You guys never fail to disappoint. Keep them coming!!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
@Capt1nB1oW We sure will, right up until the last bullet is fired in this war, and probably after that too
@lapurta222 жыл бұрын
A case can be made that this was the most pivotable battle of the entire war. There could easilly be one or two more episodes devoted entirely to this battle.
@PalleRasmussen2 жыл бұрын
Nah, it would have made no difference. After Stalingrad at the latest, Germany had lost the war. I would argue that they lost with the Stop order during Fall Gelb.
@102ndsmirnov72 жыл бұрын
@@PalleRasmussen I wrote a very similar comment on a past video lol. There is only one truth after all.
@MrPedroleiria2 жыл бұрын
Not gonna lie, I am a bit disapointed they didn't do like Pearl Harbour and have a special in colaboration with World of Tanks.
@Aethelhald2 жыл бұрын
That case can't be made. Kursk wasn't pivotal. It was massive, it was apocalyptic, but it wasn't pivotal. The sheer concentration of Soviet forces was such that even if Germany had somehow won the battle they would've paid too high a price for the victory and the subsequent advance wouldn't be sufficient to deal any kind of a real blow to Russia, then the Russians would spend the winter replenishing their forces for the next campaigning season while Germany simply couldn't do that anymore and now they're facing a second (Italy) AND a third (France) front opening up the following year. Much is made of the battle of Kursk but ultimately the fact is that it just wasn't all that important, except that it probably shortened the war a little because Germany squandered their last truly significant concentration of armour and air power attacking an extremely fortified enemy that outnumbered them in everything AND knew exactly when and where they were going to come.
@parallelworldsguy2 жыл бұрын
@@Aethelhald After Stalingrad German military victory was no longer possible but Soviet victory was not assured. There could have been a long draw on the battlefield (as there basically was between Stalingrad and Kursk) leading to a negotiated cessation of hostilities on the Soviet front. After the Soviet victory at Kursk, German defeat was assured and a negotiated peace became out of the question.
@lc11382 жыл бұрын
Your work is pure gold. Thank you Markus, thank you Indy. Thank you Timeghost in general, too.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching, L C. We couldn't do it with you amazing folks in the TimeGhost Army. Thanks for being the best audience out there
@CrimsonDragon152 жыл бұрын
At Stalingrad the Russians broke the German's greatest army. At Kursk they broke their ability to make major offensives. The initiative has been passed. The Russians have turned the tide.
@Palora012 жыл бұрын
The Germans broke them selves into the Soviet wall. At the start of Barbarosa the Axis could launch a continent wide attack, after it could only attack on one third towards Stalingrad, after that it could only mount a provincial assault at Kursk and after this they were done for good, unable to do much more than throw their forces in hopeless delaying counterattacks around individual cities.
@serdradion40102 жыл бұрын
Couldn't be done without the American help in the Operation Torch, and the British and Free French in North Africa.
@neuromancer8862 жыл бұрын
@@serdradion4010 Its funny whenever Soviets manage to do something there's always someone to bring up Lend-Lease but no one mentions that D-Day/Falaise/Ardennes went better for the western allies since the Soviets had bled the Wehrmacht dry. When faced with hardcore Eastern front units as in Caen/Market Garden even western allies had to pay a heavy price in blood.
@serdradion40102 жыл бұрын
@@neuromancer886 Lend-lease is minor contribution. Main one is that American landing in Op.Torche overturned the French to the Allied side, creating Free French, concentrating the half a million force in the North Africa, joint with the British. They redirected reserve hardened Axis troops from the Eastern Front to the North Africa. Finally, there was captured around 250.000 hardened Axis troops, with the around 250 tanks, 200 planes destroyed, much fuel, ammo and Italian ships. If all that went to the East, it would not be that easy for the Soviets. Again, history repeated at the D-day, when tank divisions went to the France instead to the East. War was decided by Allied heavy bombers, unstoppable bunch. So, just Allied side was more numerous than the Axis one.
@lycaonpictus96622 жыл бұрын
@@serdradion4010 There was absolutely nothing minor about lend-lease. By war's end 2/3 of all the vehicles doing the logistical heavy lifting for the Red Army were supplied via lend-lease. The massive Soviet offensives that destroyed the German army simply would not have been possible without them. That the Soviet Union was getting most of the vehicles it needed through lend-lease also meant that more of it's factories could be churning out things like tanks or airplanes instead of needing to be retooled to produce trucks. In short, it also meant thousands more Soviet tanks and aircraft. That's just one area where lend-lease was absolutely vital, but it often gets overlooked because amateur military buffs are often bored by logistics (even though it's more often than not the single most important factor that determines the outcome of campaigns or wars) and because we've had more than half a century of the Soviet/Russian state pushing forth a national myth that the Soviet Union could have won the war without the Western Allies. Here is what Zhukov, someone who presumably knew a thing or two about what contributed to Soviet successes, had to say about lend-lease: "Now they say that the allies never helped us, but it can't be denied that the Americans gave us so many goods without which we wouldn't have been able to form our reserves and continue the war...We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. We didn’t have anything to charge our rifle cartridges with. The Americans really saved us with their gunpowder and explosives. And how much sheet steel they gave us! How could we have produced our tanks without American steel? But now they make it seem as if we had an abundance of all that. Without American trucks we wouldn’t have had anything to pull our artillery with."
@gunman472 жыл бұрын
This week in July 1943, there are not one, but five video games (Call of Duty: United Offensive, Call of Duty 2: Big Red One, Medal of Honor: Breakthrough, Medal of Honor: Airborne and even Mafia II) that have missions starting this week in either Sicily or near Kursk. This post will focus on the levels *Ponyri* and *Kursk* , as well as *Sicily 1 & 2* from the 2004 video game *Call of Duty: United Offensive* that takes place on July 11 1943 and July 12 1943 respectively in Kursk and Sicily. As *Private Yuri Petrenko* in the *Ponyri level* , you will first capture a German held train station as well as the rest of the town. Afterwards, you will assault a tank depot and clear it of German resistance. Next in the *Kursk* level, you will use your T-34 tank as part of a tank group to destroy several PAK anti-tank guns that are on the route, as well as clear buildings of anti-tank infantry. Soon enemy Panzer IVs and Tiger tanks will appear, which will need to be eliminated as well. This level is somewhat similar to the tank levels in Call of Duty 1. At the same time as *Sergeant James Doyle* in the *Sicily 1 & 2 levels* , you will first destroy a lighthouse with explosive charges and get into the base unnoticed through a hole in the wall. You will next destroy the Comms Station to prevent German reinforcements and set charges on enemy guns. Once back on the surface, you will get in a Kubelwagen and make your escape to a Kriegsmarine patrol boat before the explosives on the guns explode.
@TruetoCaesar2 жыл бұрын
That bike chase with Doyle was awesome
@elbeto1912912 жыл бұрын
You're doing God's work man!
@gunman472 жыл бұрын
@@elbeto191291 Thanks man, there will be more posts on the regular episode this Saturday as the rest of the posts are on Sicily itself.
@enixbluerain72132 жыл бұрын
The tank battle featured in this episode, at the bridge of the River Psel, is also the tank battle level in Call of Duty: United Offensive.
@GeneralSmitty912 жыл бұрын
Those Kursk levels in United Offensive were intense
@jamesmiller90882 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching with us @James Miller!
@Reddy_Santhosh_2 жыл бұрын
Finally Panzerkampf
@stryker2142 жыл бұрын
The end of the third Reich draws near Its time has come to an end The end of an era is here Its time to attack
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watchingm Reddy
@eskimotoon2 жыл бұрын
Tak!
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Selv tak!
@paulonelson83682 жыл бұрын
I love those episodes where you guys describe the battles, now the war will get more interesting as the Axis become more and more desperate. Can you guys talk a bit about the tank production of Germany? Why didn't they have more tanks?
@MrNicoJac2 жыл бұрын
There are great videos about that already. Just a search on the economics and production of tanks should get you to the right one! :)
@randallturner90942 жыл бұрын
A lot more has to do with how much industrial effort the Germans put into tank production compared to the Soviets. While it’s true that German designs were more expensive to produce, they never put even 5% of their industrial effort into tanks before 1943, and never more than 7.8% in the war as a whole. Meanwhile, the Soviets, with a much smaller GDP, put a fairly constant 30-40% into tank production. To contrast, the Germans never put LESS than 50% of their total munitions effort into the air war, counting flak. (Certainly never less after ‘43 inclusive - before then the kriegsmarine consumed a significant proportion.) This - “the Soviets had a much bigger potential output..” simply isn’t true. Their economy never recovered to 1941 levels.
@ZoomZip2 жыл бұрын
I absolutely love Indy's passion in his voice. It is so riveting and enticing that I cannot look away. Although i already know the outcome, i am very much glued to my screen. Thank you Indy & team for making a spectacular episode as always.
@danielnavarro5372 жыл бұрын
Fields of Prokhorovka Where the heat of battle burned Suffered heavy losses And the tide of war was turned Driving back the Germans Fighting on four fronts Hunt them out of Russia Out of Soviet land Reinforce the front line Force the axis to retreat Send in all the reserves Securing their defeat Soldiers of the Union Broke the citadel Ruins of an army Axis rest in hell And here is where the battle will earn its name in history. A brutal combat for all those who fought there. Germans and Soviet soldiers stood there and fought against each other. The brutality of the battle made its mark on the small town of Prokhorovka. Godspeed to those who died in the war.
@thebiscuitguy6462 жыл бұрын
I've been looking through the comment section trying to find out where the first sabaton reference would be. Only 19 comments down!
@danielnavarro5372 жыл бұрын
@@thebiscuitguy646 How many did you find?
@clarencehopkins78322 жыл бұрын
Excellent stuff bro
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Clarence
@j241302 жыл бұрын
Remember to like
@TruetoCaesar2 жыл бұрын
This comment is racist towards amnesiacs
@kirbyculp34492 жыл бұрын
Done
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks you guys! It all helps with the youtube voodoo
@journeymantraveller33382 жыл бұрын
I definitely noticed the narrative change - quoting directly from first hand sources, and a gripping and dynamic retelling of the epic engagement. Boys Own Annual stuff. I'll probably come back to this episode again.
@matteoorlandi8562 жыл бұрын
INTO THE MOTHERLAND THE GERMAN ARMY MARCH!
@Duke_of_Lorraine2 жыл бұрын
In the Soviet Union, summer 1943 Tanks lined up in thousands, as far as the eye can see
@angeledduirbonesu19892 жыл бұрын
Ready for the onslaught Ready for the fight
@jakobnuernberger942 жыл бұрын
Waiting for the Axis to march into the trap
@j.e.clockwork30582 жыл бұрын
Mines are placed in darkness in the cover of the night Waiting to be triggered When the time is right
@ivvan4972 жыл бұрын
Imminent invasion, imminent attack Once the battle started There’s no turning back
@russbrown64532 жыл бұрын
Brilliant story telling! I was biting nails. Incredible. Eastern front; the most savage battle of all time!
@teto852 жыл бұрын
80 years later and turrets of Soviet built tanks are still blasting off meters into the air.
@a.t13132 жыл бұрын
And Nazis are still being evicted from Ukraine
@akshittripathi54032 жыл бұрын
Incredible writing and narration. You guys have outdone yourselves with this episode
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thanks @Akshit Tripathi
@ODST62622 жыл бұрын
I found this episode most interesting, and disappointing. There are two versions of Kursk and the battles in the south. The first is based on the history and reports as provided by 5th Guards commander (Rotmistrov). The second is based on reviews of the German records and Soviet documents that were available (for a while) after the Soviet Union opened up. The first is basically the video I just saw where German tanks from the SS Corps and Soviet 5th Guards Tank Army fought over a valley where hundreds of tanks clashed, the Soviets bravely closing in on the German armor where their guns could finally kill all of the Tigers or at least hurt them. The second is a bit different. First, only 1SS was involved with 2nd SS supporting on 12 July. 3rd SS was delayed fighting on the left flank after taking a river crossing while 2nd SS was waiting for an infantry division to relieve it where 2nd SS had been guarding the right flank of the corps' advance. The Soviets had problems assembling 5th Guards Tank Army as the Germans occupied some their assembly areas. This resulted in an attack that was piecemeal. 1st SS was caught completely by surprise but 1SS wasn't advancing, it had halted while 3rd SS moved up and 2nd SS was relieved. The Soviet attacks were largely stopped by anti-tank guns, both towed and SP, by a Soviet anti-tank ditch the Soviet tankers weren't informed about, by the 1st SS Panzer Regiment's tanks who although overrun weren't fired on the the Soviet tanks and who joined the Soviet attack while shooting the T34/76 from behind, and the only contact with Tigers being four from 13th company 1st SS which shot up about a third of a Soviet brigade (170th & 181st together around 1 brigade in strength) advancing as described in the video. 2nd SS' units to the north were also involved in defending against the main 5th Tank Army attack. The follow on attack in the video was by 5th Guards Army's tanks, around 200 of them. The Soviet attacks did break through the German lines with the last of the attackers destroyed in front of the German artillery positions. Around half of the attacking force was lost. The second version is based on the current writings of the Kursk 'museum' as well as several other authors. The top two books describe Rotmistrov's description of the battle. The next two do not. The last two discuss the deliberate errors in Rotmistrov's description. Rotmistrov lost approximately half of the armor in his army in his attack. He stated those losses were due to his tanks having to charge across open ground into over a 100 Tiger tanks plus (1200 Soviet vs. 700 German per Rotmistrov). He actually ended up attacking a just over 1:1 odds. The Corps in the Army couldn't form up where ordered, there were Germans there, so they went in piecemeal. The video of Soviet T34 charging forward with guns blazing means nothing - the commander was the gunner, the tank had no stabilization, the tank was likely firing HE because most of a T34 basic load was HE not armor piercing, and the drivers had trouble seeing as well. One tank in 10 had a radio. SS tank strength, July 12,1943 At Start Pz III Pz IV Pz VI T34 Cmd 1st SS 5 47 4 0 7 63 total 2nd SS 34 18 1 8 7 68 total 3rd SS 54 30 10 0 7 101 total approximately 30 Tigers started the battle with around 10 per division. does not include StuG III/G nor Panzerjager Losses 1st SS Lost 16 Pz IV, 1 Tiger 2nd SS gained 8 Pz III, gained 1 Tiger, lost 1 Command tank 3rd SS Lost 22 Pz III, 13 Pz IV, and 10 Tiger. These are destroyed and damaged. Damaged ones could be repaired (Note 2nd SS has more tanks after the battle repaired from previous losses). SOVIET TANKS committed T34/76 640 (half would be about 320 T34) T70 & others (half would be about 320 T70) SP Guns 30 Soviet losses: These were irrecoverable losses and do not include armor damaged but recovered. T34 143 T70 56 Churchill 12 SU-122 8 SU-76 3 211 tanks 11 SP guns The numbers differ among the sources (Sokolov, Zamulin, Nipe) but the Soviets lost about 220 AFV completely destroyed and the Germans as few as 4. For example, the 10 Tiger I lost by 3rd SS were all recovered and repaired. On the other hand the counter-attack on 12 July 43 did CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE BATTLE. Not through German losses but through the loss of German initiative. For the remaining short time of the battle the Soviets held the initiative and were chosing where and when to attack. The Germans were defending. SOURCES: Carell, Paul SCORCHED EARTH, 1963 translated from the Greek, KURSK 1943. 'Great Battles of the World WW2', Squadron Signal, 2009 Glantz, David M., THE BATTLE OF KURSK. University Press 1999 Zamulin, Valeriy THE BATTLE OF KURSK 1943 'view through the cameral lens', Helion Company 2014 Sokolov, Boris, MYTHS AND LEGENDS OF THE EASTERN FRONT, Pen & Sword Military, 2019 Zamulin, Valeriy, DEMOLISHING THE MYTH 'The Tank Battle at Prokhorovka, Kursk, July 1943', Helion & Company Ltd, 2011 Nipe, George M., BLOOD, STEEL, AND MYTH 'The II. SS-Panzer-Korps and the road to Prochorowka July 1943', 2011
@Mikhalych882 жыл бұрын
Its also worth mentioning that Rotmistrov have been almost court-martialed because of the heavy losses during that battle, and only intervention of Vasilevsky (or Khruschev according to other sources) prevented him from being sacked. Some historians are guessing that Rotmistrov just tried to save his position by making up higher German losses during that battle. So, yeah, Rotmistrov's claims are questionable to say the least. I think it's also worth reading Ben Wheatley's article "Citadel, Prokhorovka and Kharkov: The armoured losses of the II SS Panzer Korps Sonderverbände during the battle of Kursk, July-August 1943", he's made some interesting research about the losses of German Tank Divisions during Battle of Prokhorovka. Although there's not much difference in numbers it seems, and he tried to count mostly irrecoverable losses rather than destroyed + repairable ones among AFVs, there's a bit of a difference here and there.
@randallturner90942 жыл бұрын
Mike, I don’t see Lawrence in your bibliography. I was going to ask what you thought about his The Battle of Prokhorovka. He’s got another about the air war part of Kursk, Aces of Kursk iirc. Just the best researcher out there right now. Anton, the problem with Soviet sources is endemic. It neither starts nor ends with Kursk. All official Soviet histories have fabricated loss statistics, starting with their General Staff reports.
@CochoSGO2 жыл бұрын
I've also read that german casualty estimates are misguiding, as they reported what forces they had at the end of the day, and thus reinforcements diluted or even compensated casualties. That seems to be why there are units with barely any loses or even growing in numbers as the battle progresses). I've also read that the soviet counterattacks effectively "destroyed" the german armor, as to speak, they overrun the german repair stations and damaged tanks were effectively lost
@Mikhalych882 жыл бұрын
@@CochoSGO Can you give me the sources of that info please? It's not like I'm claiming that you are wrong, I've just heard about it as well and wanted to find more about those claims, but alas has not been able to find the sources of it.
@Mikhalych882 жыл бұрын
@@randallturner9094 Well, not really. Claims made by Soviet generals during the war is one thing. Official public Soviet claims - is another. Sometimes the former have been censored, distorted and transformed into a latter. Claiming that "All" Soviet statistics are false is an overstretch, although it wasn't uncommon during the Stalin's rule.
@jamesgrcevich62772 жыл бұрын
Amazing research. I wrote a paper in college how Kursk was more important then Stalingrad. I said this because the center of the German army was the Panzer forces and thus was first time they were stopped and the best if the panzers were destroyed. Great research guys. Keep it up.
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you James. Stay tuned, much more to come every week
@krejslayer2 жыл бұрын
I've been waiting for this episode since the start of the series - well done! Although I think it deserved a coverage on par with Pearl Harbor - considering it's orders of magnitude larger in scale in both man and machines.
@randallturner90942 жыл бұрын
Umm… I don’t think you have a good handle on land vs sea war materiel costs. The Bismarck cost about the same as 800 Tiger tanks, or about 2,000 MkIV’s. Or about half the total German AFV force at Kursk. One ship. The US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor in 1941 represented a capital investment many times more than the total forces on both sides at Kursk, at first glance. Edit: well, more anyway.
@derrickthewhite12 жыл бұрын
I suspect that pearl harbor is better understood. Naval warfare is easier to organize and track. Pearl harbor has a much better defined scope of operations than Kursk. Its easier to count the losses of machines than men, planes than tanks, and ships than planes. The language resources help from an English standpoint, giving english speakers more accessibility to pearl harbor. I do hope for a round up on the losses of citidel, because I felt like this episode was just about a very chaotic tank battle.
@krejslayer2 жыл бұрын
@@randallturner9094 Well, I wasn't exactly talking material cost here - I was talking sheer scope of operations. Over a million men mobilized and thousands of tanks, artillery and airplanes. It dwarfs Pearl Harbor in that aspect. Not to mention months in preparation.
@randallturner90942 жыл бұрын
@@krejslayer it (Kursk) was certainly more complex. I have a bit of a chip about land warfare comparisons to other media. They always overestimate everything about land battles but headcount. You’re still kinda doing it - it’s not just cost, it’s combat power. there may only be a handful of BB’s but their firepower dwarfs those “thousands of artillery and tanks”. Each ship is a huge collection of sub units. Even Fletcher class DD’s have a arty battalion’s throw-weight. Quite a large air contingent at Kursk, though. My point is this. An industrial nation like Germany or the Soviet Union can make good its losses at Kursk in a few weeks, a month at most. It takes them a decade to build a fleet like that at Pearl Harbor. (USA, less time for both of course.)
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
AnonymusKeglus Thanks for watching. Every episode is a great investment of research, time, and money. We do our best to cover the action of this war every single week and to bring you special episodes regularly, but we can't do it without your support! Join the TimeGhost Army today and help us make more of those specials! www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
@jacobrodesh90192 жыл бұрын
all work put in by the crew deserves high accolades. you all put together amazing presentations and history will remember your effort to educate the public
@WorldWarTwo2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Jacob. The team indeed works their asses off, so it's great to see such gracious comments as yours that appreciate it. Stay tuned my friend