Worst Spells: Crown of Madness

#dnd #dnd5e #ttrpg #gaming

[@SoulDragonWithFlow]

Some spells break the DM. Some break the game. This one breaks your heart.

[@talongreenlee7704]

I made a homebrew version of this spell where you can use your action to force the target to use its reaction to move half their movement without provoking opportunity attacks and make one melee weapon attack against a creature of your choice. I really hope they go through all the dud spells like crown of madness, witch bolt, ray of sickness, ray of enfeeblement, weird, and fix them up for One DnD.

[@Samuel_Kabel]

Nope. But they buffed Mass Suggestion! 🙂

[@asolanara]

I had this spell cast on my character in the middle of a fight. Right afterward, my DM realized I was already in melee combat with another enemy, and the spell couldn't prevent me from attacking it

[@gregoryfloriolli9031]

And you have to use your Action every turn to maintain control of the target and the creature gets to make a Saving throw every turn. This spell is trash.

[@GZilla311]

Yeah. If it worked without needing to use the action, it would be bad. By adding that part in, they made it AWFUL.

[@maxmurray6680]

This spell is the equivalent of unlocking the Villain as a player character. Crown of Madness slaps when the BBEG uses it on the Bugbear Runeknight Fighter with the glaive, not so much when your player uses it on bandit 37

[@deegandeloof4953]

Honestly it's still garbage if the BBEG uses it on the fighter, considering it's 1 attack for the BBEG's whole action

[@bray2964]

More like Crown of Midness

[@asherandai1000]

That would still require a huge improvement to the spell. It’s just totally useless.

[@bray2964]

@@asherandai1000 Crown of Badness, then? Crown of Sadness?

[@asherandai1000]

@@bray2964 ooh! I like crown of sadness 😂 because that’s exactly what you’re gonna feel if you pick this spell.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

Crown of "Bonk, bonk, get stunned, get stunned, bonk, bonk".

[@jackkyle8414]

At the table I play at, we treat it as if it means that your victim will be forced to move to attack. We still rarely take the spell because we rarely ever make evil characters. But it's fun when it's used on us.

[@DojoBelok]

Hear me out. Abberant Mind Sorcerer cast subtle spell Crown of Madness twinned. So you can do this without two guards knowing you are doing this, and they will just attack each other without knowing what's happening. Shenanigans. Abberant mind: Divination or an enchantment spells from the sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell list. If you cast the spell using sorcery points, it requires no verbal or somatic components, and it requires no material components, unless they are consumed by the spell.

[@wesstuff6943]

Except they're scared of why they're forced to attack each other and can still choose to run away from each other RAW. It's so bad lol

[@DojoBelok]

@@wesstuff6943 sometimes, it's more about utility. Imagine doing this to a king's guards, without them knowing it was you or your party. I am a fan of chaotic scenarios in DND, so I'm just trying to make the best out of a bad spell. 🤘

[@saltypork101]

Rune knight 5, divine soul 3. Bonus action get big. Twinned spell crown of madness. Action surge double grapple. I call this combo Punch and Judy.

[@last2nkow]

Oh, I house rule that one to be more logically useful. Like making it an attack with the weapon or method they have already prepared (so any weapon, melee or ranged but no swapping to a different attack type), and interpret the "before moving" the target is chosen and if they can move next to the target you choose they must, and only if their move would not get them into a place they can attack is the choice theirs.

[@AnotherObserver501]

Remember, if you can do it, so can they. Give the spell to a goblin shaman or some other low level enemy and watch as the barbarian suddenly scores a crit against the wizard.

[@derekusher3057]

Thus could be useful in a espionage/cloak and dagger style game when you want to frame a target for a crime or cause a distraction

[@xiongray]

It's a bit more fun with an Enchantment Wizard who could target a second creature & make one of them forget about when they were Crown of Madness. Sorcerers could twin this. Arcane Tricksters can use this while Hidden to sow a bit of chaos with Advantage. You can drop Concentration at any time. Eldritch Knights can use this on a humanoid they're fighting, giving themselves an advantage on the Spell to give themselves a protective charm. Even in their madness, you still have advantage to interact with them socially. Awkward but yeah. This is a harder Spell to like.

[@Merilirem]

This is one of those spells you have to fix to work as it should.

[@Micaerys]

And if I remember correctly the spell gives the target a very visible thorny crown, so you can't even use it as a subtle way to cause chaos, because the potential enemies that you can attack through your target will absolutely see a crown suddenly appearing in their friend's forehead

[@FrankDrebbin-de3te]

I only got this spell to work ONE time, just once. We defending a town and the gate was crowded with Orcs. The Chieftain and his warband broke through. I got Crown of Madness on the Chief when they were stuck in the gate. The Chieftain was hitting crazy hard, lots of 20s, on his warband. I think he killed 7 Orcs and they barely broke through.

[@KiallVunMyeret]

The one use case were it's pretty allright is with enemy spellcasters as you can force them to use their puny dagger on your partymembers instead of their dangerous spells

[@VoxMora]

Good way to cause a distraction in a crowded area though

[@andrewsanders17]

I find spells like this to be war magic. It would make sense in dense war formations that a random soldier would have multiple allies next to it that can be a target. In DnD it would make sense that magic wouldn't just be for small scale battles like hypnotic pattern or fireball with their large AOE & CC abilities. Sure in dungeons and things of that nature it isn't really that useful but just like humans building nukes to better kill other humans for the things they want kingdoms would invest in investigating war magics to better increase their power.

[@Skeyesis]

Make it part of a cursed item, the party has to wrestle the PC to cast remove curse or stay away from their friend.

[@chrisblake4198]

They should have devoted 5 minutes of the Spells update video on how they un-fubar'd this spell. If they'd done that and said they applied the same process to every spell, I'd have pre-order it without hesitation.

[@aaronclift]

“Suggestion” and “Hold Person” are much better level 2 control spells.

[@supervillainJ]

I modified it to make actual madness. Disatvange on attacks and allows ranged attacks

[@saltypork101]

This spell is fun for a grappler. If you're a caster who likes taking spells to support the martials in your party and you're playing with a grappler, consider picking up this spell.

[@Maninawig]

Dang, that sucks! I have a character readied who was subject to that spell as a major part of her backstory. Thinking it worked like an offensive Suggestion, I had her succumb to the spell, causing her to rush home and "kıll" her husband. Now I got to search for a new way to get those results

[@Katwind]

Didn't realize there was a spell specifically to make someone attack an ally, and considering one of my players had the same effect without those weaknesses using phantasmal force, which is also a level two spell... yeah, it sucks.

[@dannyakins7677]

Situational? Could you use it on a guard, who then escorts you into the Kings throne room, & then you use the guard like a sleeper agent to attempt to assassinate the King, & maybe you kill the guard, to win the Kings favour??

[@Satsujinki1973]

This spell is very useful. Don't cast it on an enemy who is not within range of another enemy. Casting this on a single enemy with nothing else in range is like casting Fireball on a single enemy when there is a Mob elsewhere on the battlefield. Read your spells, plan them out. Basic Spellcasting skills. And yes I have used it several times to mess things up for my DM by having an enemy in the middle of a bunch of others go on a Sterling Archer rampage.

[@CW-hw8nu]

This spell is WAY more useful if you actually use it on a powerful enemy caster. They have to make a worthless attack against your tank (who already wants to be next to them) instead of casting powerful spells. Its still not a great spell, maybe just ok when you use it that way. But its a way better use than trying to use it to get enemies to attack each other.

[@FakeSugarVillain]

This spell is really useful against mounted enemies, against anything else is kinda meh...

[@papajon7007]

My bad guy cast it on the players when they were in a stage coach It worked well then but I agree with the Dudes, in most cases it’s not useful.

[@dungeonpastor]

Yeah. This is definitely better as the DM

[@GZilla311]

That’s not even touching on the worst part: you need to use your action to keep concentration on the target. Which means you can’t even fire other non-concentration spells, and are left doing basically nothing.

[@godlygamer911]

It could be excellent for RP.

[@lancourt]

This could be fun if it were a cantrip

[@LokFan96]

I just want a brainwashing spell...

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Crown of Madness is literally the "There are two guards standing right next to each other." spell. In that scenario, it's the best spell in the game.

[@herceg01]

Again, an excellent example of a spell designed to be absolutely trash for PC users, and absolutely irritating for PC targets of NPC spellcasters...

[@Dormons]

Wouldn't you be able to have it target itself?

[@markpekel4517]

even worse than true strike

[@matthewdykeman8149]

For all of you that seem to be under the impression that a Sorcerer could use this to make people fight each other secretly, your all forgetting about the CROWN OF THORNS it conjures on its targets head. "Woah why'd you just attack ne?!... oh Crown of Madness cool... uh... stay ten feet away and let everyone know we're under attack ok."

[@GZilla311]

So let’s count what’s wrong with this spell. 1. You can’t force anyone to move (probably the least painful part). 2. It only affects humanoids (not too bad, same limited use as many other spells so whatever). 3. There is a visual indicator of the spell being in effect, so people will instantly know they’re being controlled. 4. You need to use your action to keep the spell going, meaning you can’t do anything else. Did they not test this at ALL?

[@matthewdykeman8149]

@@GZilla311 Don't forget - 5. It's a Charm spell so it only effects people not immune to Charm.

[@s.m.4995]

Teleport other?

[@evancarlson5805]

Why are so many of these worst spells Warlock spells :(

[@Sylancewillfall]

Remember, the target is within their own melee range

[@talongreenlee7704]

It specifies “other than itself”. I think the best thing you can do with it is just try to shut down spellcasters by making them attack your allies with their staff instead of casting powerful spells against them.

[@Edmar_Thorn]

Can you at least make the target attack itself?

[@dechlanstopher1255]

liked the video and accidentally disliked bc i got sad (‘Crown of Madness’ is such a cool name and shouldn’t be on a such a dogwater spell. call it Mental Jab or something since it can only be melee idk)

[@erichooper2794]

Cast on mages make them melee your front line who runs up on them instead of casting spells, mage neutralized

[@Xindiel]

it doesn't force their movement, that is the problem, so the mage just stays away from your front lines and you have no target to force them to attack, so they get to cast spells normally

[@disiesgroto1881]

@@Xindiel He means after you got into Melee with them. Because the mage is using their Action to do a Melee attack against, say, a Summoned Bird that flew down to flit beside the Mage, they cannot use it to actually cast a spell or Disengage - so if they try to hobble away, they will get AOO’d, and the character in Melee with them can just move into Melee again when the turn is done.

[@Xindiel]

@@disiesgroto1881 this is why mystra graced her mages with misty step

[@ajstyles5970]

As a dm this spell now allows you to make them make ranged attacks. You’re welcome all 4 of my players that will never see this 🤌🏻