worth the hype? a study in drowning and 3 iconic series

[@brittanyhoward1741]

The way that A study in Drowning could so easily be fixed if Ava Reid had just made the students literature students who were selected to finish a mysteriously dead authors manuscript because of their high marks in writing. Like it was RIGHT THERE 😭😭😂😂

[@ramalam98]

Hearing you talk about A Study in Drowning and combining it with what I've heard about Lady Macbeth in terms of its weird prejudice against Scottish men makes me think that Ava Reid has something she REALLY needs to examine

[@amothshunger]

In The Wolf and the Woodsman (Ava Reid's debut), the FMC talks repeatedly about her mixed race love interest's "blackened" and "stained" and "soiled" blood, so it's a definitely pattern.

[@PinkCatsy]

Yikes. Marines talking about racism made me wonder if she's one of the authors that's easier for white women to love

[@shannonmcn8299]

As a structural engineer I found it very funny that the "architecture" in ASiD is only vibes and doodles, I know it's not true but it spoke to my own unfair prejudice 😂

[@deirdrebeecher3508]

Me googling Ava Reid and seeing she has the exact same hairstyle as the cover art. 🤨

[@mynameismarines]

I didn't want to say anything....

[@MsJayteeListens]

Oh god the cover art for the US cover of Lady MacBeth is clearly based on her. (The only compliment I’ll ever give that book is the UK cover is lovely)

[@Jessticulates]

I've also struggled with Ava Reid's books in the past, but A Study in Drowning was an instant skip for me when I saw all the Welsh names and words in the blurb because I just KNEW no research had been done. I'm tired of North American authors using Welsh like a cute fantasy language when it's a living language with a history that deserves care and respect.

[@MsJayteeListens]

I’m Scottish and Ava Reid’s Lady MacBeth is the worst thing I’ve ever read, so you were definitely right to avoid this book. Scottish history is used in a similar way as Welsh language/mythology, but it tends to be in historical romance, and it sets my teeth on edge just reading the descriptions.

[@Jessticulates]

@MsJaytee1975 Ugh! I suspected that might be the case so avoided that one as well. I genuinely think authors can write about any culture as long as they take the time to do their research, but it's so obvious with some authors when they haven't. I had the same issue with The Drowned Woods by Emily Lloyd-Jones, where she wrote a Ceffyl Dŵr (basically a Welsh version of a kelpie!) as Ceffyl DĐr... but there is no Đ in Welsh and Dŵr is the Welsh for water, so she had a water horse with a name that no longer made any sense 🙃

[@mynameismarines]

I wasn't super aware of what history she was pulling from, so you should've seen the confused messages I was sending my Discord. I was like... "IS THIS RACISM?" The fact that Lady Macbeth then goes on to be AWFUL to Scottish people... I just have a few questions for Ava Reid.

[@queeni8054]

i recommend the vorkosigan saga! there are 16-18 books, starting in 1986, but they are shocking modern in their feel. themes are around disability, queerness, power, empire. it's a sci-fi series but the politics and world building are what keep me there, with characters that are so imperfect and loveable!

[@ChantaalReads]

Seconding this rec! I’m about 4 or 5 books into my Vorkosigan journey and they’ve all been fantastic reads.

[@CaitlynHert]

Ooh, a Vorkosigan rec! I've been obsessed with that series for years.

[@Raetheforce]

I was genuinely shocked at how overhyped A Study in Drowning was and how people held it up as a feminist book when Effy would have gotten nowhere without the help of a man. Also just being beaten over the head with how beautiful she is was exhausting. Sadly I hear Lady Macbeth is pretty much the same. I am still interested in Ava Reid but this book was probably the worst I've read this year. The '"atmospheric" writing almost felt like parody at certain points.

[@mynameismarines]

I'm interested in Ava Reid books, but out of morbid curiosity at this point. I started Lady Macbeth and bounced after 5 pages because it was all of what I said here, immediately and boldly in your face. I was like OH NO.

[@amyg8176]

Don’t you know??? Female main character = feminist book!!!

[@dollangangeresque]

I 100% agree with your thoughts on A Study in Drowning. Such a disappointing read because the small details of the world was actually interesting to me but they never get explored in the story at all. It still frustrates me. Also Ava Reid, stop propping up your women main characters by making other women in the story not even exist in the narrative because it really defangs her feminist themes that are already incomplete and incompetently executed.

[@aw7145]

I've read 3 Ava Reid books because I *want* to like them so badly and the premises of her books are so interesting but the best one was only fine at best 😔 Her writing style, female characters, and her worldbuilding/lack thereof have always frustrated me

[@_dayliqht]

​@@aw7145which one was the best for you?

[@IsabelleShae]

Two Marines videos in such a short time??!! Amazing! We're so lucky! Thank you :)

[@LiteratureScienceAlliance]

I am currently reading book 12 in Vorkosigan (adventure scifi series) and man its everything I wanted from a long running series. I hear she also has a long running fantasy series that people love

[@mynameismarines]

Okay, this is shooting up to the top of my list!

[@LiteratureScienceAlliance]

@ it rewards “i want adventure brain” and is thematically challenging at times without overshadowing the story. It also holds up really well for a series that started in the late 80s and in some ways really ahead of its time. Di randomly got me to try it two years ago and its just been an endless source of joy picking up an episodic entry here or there

[@bookishdi]

@@LiteratureScienceAlliance The Penric & Desdemona series is her fantasy work! It's set in the same world as Curse of Chalion, and very much fits my personal brand of cozy

[@Shaylee_W]

Aw I actually really enjoyed A Study in Drowning so I'm sorry to hear you didn't like it! That said, I totally get your criticisms and I get what you're saying. I personally wanted to know so much more about the world (I thought the Drowning and the Sleepers were interesting concepts) and was a bit disappointed that it was more focused on the romance. All fair points made in this review!

[@mynameismarines]

Appreciate that!

[@coin2039]

I look forward for the 30 books in a month challenge every year 😂

[@mynameismarines]

I'm so glad! I love trying it. (It's December 4th and I've finished 0 books lmao)

[@Binkabink]

I read A Study in Drowning when it came out and since then I’ve forgotten almost the whole book but one thing I do recall is that the fairy king did not need to be real and the fact that he was served no purpose

[@mynameismarines]

The whole book felt that way to me, where things happened and pieces were included where I was like ?????? WHY.

[@ArtsyrissaAsmr]

I’m not going to lie, I really loved A Study in Drowning, although I think it could have been fleshed out more. I loved the writing style and I interpreted it differently, but I totally get where you’re coming from. I think she has some growing to do as an author, but it really resonated with me and I think it’ll stick with me for a long while.

[@halochromatium4485]

I only read Lady Macbeth by Ava Reid and it is reason enough for me to never read another of her books again, because all I heard that they are rather similar in style

[@user-zf8mi7ew6k]

I’m with you on the Hollows series. I read it, because at the time, urban fantasy was kinda new. But, it always made me anxious and a little depressed reading it. I finished it to the end, but I wasn’t really happy about it. 🤷🏻‍♀️ The October Day started out the same, it was early urban fantasy. The first book was so bleak, that I almost didn’t pick up the second. I’m so glad I did. You see October get lighter, find family and friends. It gets funnier! Pyschangling, Couldn’t get into it, I don’t know why? I really wanted to. Although, I only tried one book. It’s time to try again. Loved her other series, the Guild Hunter. Closest thing that reminds me of the Kate Daniel’s series lately, TA Whites Firebird Chronicles. Its Sci-Fi, but some how still gives me that same pure comfort read🙂

[@danielleoliver1734]

I adore the firebird chronicles as well. Jessie Mihalik’s sci fi trilogy’s have the same vibes for me, especially the consortium rebellion series, more romance but lots of fun and politics.

[@resoketswem.manenzhe157]

your analysis of a study in drowning is spot on. it was competently written, so I was very confused how on how to feel about it.

[@hella_fitz]

Thank you for the A Study in Drowning review. I read it in June or July and found it so annoying and frustrating to read, and it has astounded me the way it seems like so many other people didn't read the same book I did.

[@danielleoliver1734]

If you like British humour, a really enjoyable time travel urban fantasy / sci-fi series is The Chronicles of St Mary’s by Jodi Taylor (I know most people hate time travel but this one really works) Highly recommend them on audio as well, the narrator makes the series even better. St Mary’s is a historical research facility who ‘investigate major historical events in contemporary time’, and things always end in chaos. Might not be for you but they are all a lot of fun and the characters are chaotic fun to follow

[@TheHearMeRoar]

These look fun! I just checked out the audiobook from Libby. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@MsJayteeListens]

I have this on my TBR, glad to hear it’s a fun read. I read a lot of murder mysteries and like to break them up with lighter books.

[@SandhyaRao]

Thank you for this suggestion, going to check it out now!

[@TheKrystina62]

I recently started reading the Kate Daniels series because of you! Currently reading book two and hoping to get through a few more before the month is out 🙏🏼

[@mynameismarines]

Yessss!!! I hope you love it. I think it really starts gaining momentum in book 3.

[@TheGoofy1932]

One of my favorite series. I've reread many, many times. Really all of their series are great. If you like them then I highly recommend Lyndsay Buroker too. Several really excellent series with well built worlds and great characters.

[@pujam6284]

When I told my friends about a study in drowning I highlighted that I'm mad about the mental illness plot line with the "pink pills"

[@incuriousgaze]

No because it would make infinitely more sense if they were both literature students. Because the guy is there to prove the author is a fraud. If they had opposing theses then the rivalry would make sense. because in that case their academic standing and credibility (and also maybe graduation) would essentially rely on them discrediting the other’s thesis.They would have completely opposing goals

[@TheNumnutRandomness]

I think think the one time the "rivals-to-lovers" thing worked for me was Emily Wilde's Encyclopaedia of Faeries. While Emily is brilliant she is also anti-social and difficult to work with, causing her to constantly teetering on the brink of losing progress. Whereas Wendell is slapdash, lazy, and seemingly skates by with minimum effort due to his charm.

[@mynameismarines]

IT WAS RIGHT THERE! I was so distracted the entire time by the wild decision to make her an architecture student.

[@mynameismarines]

This one is on my TBR!

[@ReadswithRachel]

Oh no now I’m look at this on my shelf like 👀

[@BrokenDarkFire]

I am SO glad you included A Study in Drowning’s review here bc I would love to read more Ava Reid but she’s been a major hit-and-miss writer for me that I don’t even know which of her books to read next. But I probably won’t be A Study in Drowning!

[@mynameismarines]

Listen, lots of people love it, but I just found the whole foundation of the story to be so weak, it was hard for me to see why!

[@BrokenDarkFire]

@ looks like I’m about to find out for myself 😂 apparently I requested ASID from my library a couple months back and it’s happens to be currently in transit. Hope I enjoy it more than Lady MacBeth.

[@ChantaalReads]

I recommend the Psy-Changeling series on the strength of how interesting the larger world macro plot is! If you’re interested in that, it’s so worth continuing on even when the romances get a little…questionable LOL. I didn’t struggle through book 2, but I do remember it being a step down from book 1. I also loved the couple in book 3 because it was a switch up in the romance dynamic that was great. Definitely recommend going on, especially if you find yourself into the larger political/world plotting that continues on through every book.

[@TheHearMeRoar]

Thank you, both for your takes on A Study in Drowning and for the recommendations (or warnings 😂). I was recomended ASID by my friend and she was disappointed when I didnt really like it. You put it so well! I listened to the audiobook and had to rewind multiple times because it was so menadering and confusing on multiple levels. I recently discovered KD and I'm so excited to continue and hear about what I should pick up next!

[@mynameismarines]

This is one of those books where I honestly am not sure why it's so loved and hyped. It just felt so poorly done that I was more confused than anything else. Good luck with KD, and I hope you love it!

[@paloma_hill]

absolutely cackling. the hurricane and omg going driving on a every-high-tide-flooded-road in a freaking hurricane had me laughing out loud in the middle of the climax. but you're right on all counts, awful book.

[@mynameismarines]

They were having a conversation while walking through a hurricane and watching trees be uprooted and I was like, "I've already put up with too much to be here right now."

[@chokachoka1134]

Reading your review is not what I was expecting based off the cover of the book. I'm happy I saw this cause I swear bigger KZbinrs always say the same things about popular books

[@laurencole8161]

I haven't read A Study in Drowning, but that comment about how the main villain's actions were excused because he couldn't help it kind of reminded me of the love interest in Lady Macbeth, who confessed to wanting to assault Roscille (that's lady macbeth) and how he had to physically remove himself from the premises to not do so, but Roscille was okay with it because he at least was self aware???

[@alkhemiaaugustine3764]

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[@heyimsasa]

yayyy glad to see you back! i'm curious about ava reid's writing but every time i hear about her from trusted reviewers with similar taste, i'm like "maybe i don't want a bad reading experience right now" LOL

[@librarianlirael]

I recently tried to reread Dead Witch Walking after loving the series for so long. The first few chapters are ROUGH, I couldn't get past page 50. Maybe I'll go back at some point now that I'm prepared but damn. October Daye I reread more recently (2022) and can confirm it gets less bleak after I think book 5. There is something traumatic that happens in that one, but I think she starts building herself a little found family which gives her something to fight for. Also it gets more queer (side characters) which is nice!

[@laela2000]

A series I really enjoyed was the Armand Gamache series by Louise Penny. There are 18 books in the series, and I got to 16. If you like detective novels that take place in a small town - highly recommend.

[@TheGoofy1932]

Love her series. You really feel for her characters and she writes a solid mystery.

[@rowan2222]

It's so interesting to listen to you talk about books because our tastes are so different, I LOVE the October Daye series but I can totally understand why it didn't vibe with you! IMO the 3rd book is the weakest so it makes sense to me that that's where you were like ehhh it's not for me. I'm glad you gave the series a try though! Toby gets a lot more competent through the series and her magic evolves a lot and there's a lot of stuff that gets revealed as you go along for why she's such a weak changeling and why she struggles with certain magics that should come easily to her. But she definitely does struggle with depression and they keep coming up against these seemingly impossible odds and some of the books do have that frenetic energy of just *reacting* to the situation and sometimes having information just fall into her lap. There's one of the books that takes place over like a 24-48 hour period. Your reviews give enough info that even if it's a book you didn't like, it helps me - for example, I gave A Study in Drowning 5 stars lol I related deeply to Effy on multiple levels so I think that's why I gave a pass on the plot issues. Apparently I can't help but love a depressed, misunderstood MC. lol

[@mynameismarines]

I think the thing with Toby was that in addition to all of these things I could look past, the plots just weren't strong enough to justify looking past them. They felt a little disorganized as mysteries and so it all feeds each other-- the weak investigation, the information falling into her lap, the lack of agency, the messy plot core, and then everything also felt bleak. It added up so that the things I did like-- a lot of the side characters-- were fighting for their lives in terms of trying to hold my attention. While I did see how a lot of these things might be addressed as Toby grows and changes, the fact that I don't have a lot of faith in McGuire's plot core makes me less confident in investing a whole bunch more time and energy in this series! As for ASiD, I get that about the FMC in terms of relateability, but how absolutely awful she was to the MMC killed that for me, unfortch.

[@SandhyaRao]

I'm kinda thrown at how similar your thoughts were to mine regarding the October Daye and Hollows series (well , the first books only, that's all I could get through). I admire you being able to get through 4 books in the October Daye series, I could barely get through the first one, for the exact same reasons you stated as well. And the reason you have for continuing a series even though the first books are not that great are exactly mine, which is why I stuck through the KD series back in 2020 and it became my all time favorite. If I may suggest, try The Others series by Anne Bishop. It's different from all the others mentioned above, it doesn't have a hyper competent FMC, but a very resilient one. I loved it to my surprise, and think you MIGHT like it too.

[@TheHearMeRoar]

I will for sure check out this series!

[@mynameismarines]

I've heard such a range of opinions on The Others! This does make me curious to try it out, though, since we seem to share opinions on these other ones. I'll add it to my list!

[@TheGoofy1932]

Yes, The Others by Anne Bishop is such a great series. While Meg is not a bada** like Kate she is most definitely resilient. Such a sweet and nice, slow build of her relationship with Simon too.

[@cautionwetfloor2779]

I felt that the sex scene also undermined what the book was trying to tackle re misogyny etc. Like the absence of abuse doesn't equate with good, non-patriarchal sex. I'm especially particular about how sex is portrayed in YA, and I felt like trying to show a "healthy" sexual dynamic, but actually failing miserably, is harmful for the kiddos. Keen to hear others' thoughts

[@sullivc5]

I'm a huge Kate Daniels fan! Ilona Andrews self-published a new novella about Roman this year called Sanctuary and I really enjoyed it. As someone who has been an UF fan since its heyday in the aughts and teens, I feel like I've read most of the series at this point. I made it through book 9 of October Daye before my interest just kind of fizzled out and through book 7 of the Hollows, which ended with something so devastating that I just couldn't go back to it. I've made it through all of the psy-changeling books, but the quality varies significantly. And the latest book was trash. I also exclusively listen to those books on audio while I'm running errands, doing chores, or trying to fall asleep. I don't know if I would ever use my focused reading time on them, like I would for any Ilona Andrews book. Her Guild Hunter books are better, but the lead character does describe something as smelling like crushed ice, so it's not without its own issues. I enjoyed Kelley Armstrong's Women of the Otherworld series, but I started reading them in 2005, so my nostalgia goggles might be on. It wouldn't surprise me if there were some 'not like other girls' moments, particularly in the first few books. Sharon Shinn's Elemental Blessings series is also really great. It's more low fantasy than UF and is only 5 books, but I love the characters and it's one of the very few fantasy worlds I would actually want to live in.

[@amyg8176]

You got me into Kate daniels a year or two ago and I have one book left and I am dragging it out because I just don’t want it to end haha. I started rereading the Animorphs series this year (one book every other week, there are I think 64 total so it’s going to take like 2.5 years) and I have to say- for a YA series that was written beginning in 1997, it holds up! Greater than the sum of its parts, as you said. They’re such quick, enjoyable reads, with silly throwaway stories and surprisingly deep and harrowing ones. Also one time they get thrown back in time to the dinosaurs, which was fantastic. I just want everyone to read Animorphs so I have more than one friend to talk about it with 😊

[@futchslug]

Re: a study in drowinging... The focus on fitting societal beauty standards as the "reason" the mc gets harassed is so lacking.... like sexual harrassment and assualt is often a tool of patriarchal power and control, the perpetrator doesnt actually need to be attracted to the person they harass to do it, and in fact many women who Dont fit patriarchal beauty standards are harassed as a form of social "punishment" for that failure... feels VERY white feminism 101 to have such a lacking analysis of patriarchal violence & how it actually functions....

[@theLore2000]

I found Nalini Singh after a KD hangover and psy-changeling have also been my favourite, above Guild Hunter or those by other authors like October Daye. I think as the world gets bigger I really like the extended cast, a lot of urban fantasy struggles with women who don’t really like other women (Patricia Briggs 1 felt really like this); and I think Nalini and the Andrews do well at avoiding that. That being said, they can be a bit variable just because she’s got so many. Some really lean into I man, you woman and the insta mate bond while others I’ve revisited and still loved for the community she creates with the packs and the way the world keeps getting bigger. By no means perfect books but I’m still a big fan

[@theLore2000]

Will also say; head injuries or presumed terminal conditions do not stop being an incredibly common theme lol I started to just laugh whenever a new character turned up with a strong belief that they were about to die tragically lmao

[@mynameismarines]

I said this to someone else, but I suppose it makes a lot of sense that you get a lot more variability in a series like this that is more related than following a fixed set of characters. Each couple is bound to give you more highs and lows. I do love that you also experiened the KD hangover though lmao. It is REAL.

[@cate5029]

Thank you for the review of A Study in Drowning. I won't waste my time!! Lo e the honesty

[@BiPhBiPhBiPhBiPh]

Your wall look like the Sims 2 glitch 😂

[@EveryonesACryptid]

NGL, you're a lot more determined than I could ever be! IIRC, I DNF'd Slave to Sensation halfway through. What probably made me throw in the towel was the combination of the series being super hyped and my own expectations being rather high. Given that there are many, many, many other books on my TBR and at my library, I am ultimately okay with leaving thePsy-Changeling series alone.(Like you,I am a completist--especially when it come to long runing series, so here we are. 😅

[@mynameismarines]

Yeah, the first time I tried Slave to Sensation, I also DNFed, so I get it! For long, established series specifically, though, I'm willing to give the first books a little grace. I'm still not convinced to keep reading the series, though, but we'll see!

[@bookishdi]

I mean, you know I think the Toby books are worth investing in, but also I can understand why (especially early on) folks would bounce off of them. One long running series that I've been meaning to try are the Chronicles of Elantra by Michelle Sagara. I read the first one years ago and vaguely remember enjoying it. It's like, urban fantasy in a secondary world and there are a ton of books + some spinoffs

[@mynameismarines]

Adding to my list! I'm trying to keep track of all the ones people mention here in this comment section. I'll also share in the Discord in case we want to pick one from the list for our 2025 read.

[@TheGoofy1932]

I enjoy Nalini Singh, but I have a very strong preference for her Guild Hunters series. She has also written a few solid stand alone mysteries that I've enjoyed. Seanan McGuire's Incryptid series is fun and I think overall more enjoyable than her October Daye series. October Daye does get better after book 5. She gets better with her powers and there's a much stronger found family aspect at that point that continues on. Hollows is a pass for me. I've tried it a couple times and nah. Since you like Kate Daniels though I would definitely recommend Lindsay Buroker. Several great series with good world building, strong plots and great characters-lots of found family. She's definitely a favorite for me along with Ilona Andrews.

[@MythicalDelenn]

Psy-Changeling was worth reading for me as someone who just caught up, especially since some of my favorite books are later in the series. But it is pretty hit or miss, especially early on and Visions of Heat is one of the weaker entries. I think there are interesting threads pulling you from one book to the next, which kept me reading past the books I didn't like. But I did read a lot of the earlier books back to back and I don't know if I would have kept going if I'd had time to think about it.

[@mynameismarines]

I've gotten a variety of reactions about this series and I feel like I'm going through my comments going, "great point! I'll give it another try" and then "oh, great point, I guess I won't read more." 😂 Jury is still out.

[@RR-xl6yc]

As someone who has enjoyed the psy changeling series, I can confirm that not all the books are equally good, and you are far from alone with your feelings about book 2. If you can push through, book 3 is much better, and then they will vary. If you enjoy the world and politics that is really the strongest part of the overall series so you will likely enjoy yhat in each book even when the relationship isn't as strong. Mara from Bookslikewhoa has a podcast series reviewing each book that I think is worth listening to after reading each respective book. She is a fan of the series (and interviewed the author), but also feels like you do about book 2.

[@mynameismarines]

That makes sense for a series that is more related than it is one continuation of a story. You are bound to have stronger couples and some more highs and lows than a true series!

[@pauieeepau]

I've only read Dead Witch Walking, and it was over a decade ago. And the only thing I remembered about it is (spoilers) that I felt queerbaited and she was put in a rat fight arena. I didn't know it was a series, so i never looked for further books lol.

[@mynameismarines]

okay, YES, I totally forgot to mention this, but at some point during reading, I just had to google if the FMC and the vampire ended up together because the tension was THICK and I was very disappointed to find out what happens. It really took a lot of air out of my reading.

[@pauieeepau]

@@mynameismarines as someone who wasn't reading or seeking out queer stories yet and was dense about it at the time, it had to be pretty blatant for me to pick up. It was baffling lol.

[@giantcupofcoffee]

I think Ava Reid thought she couldn’t do full gothic haunted house vibes without the architecture thing. But I will say that online feminist discourse tends to be very dismissive of the fact that beautiful women are often given things by men who expect something in return. There’s a very dark component to beauty privilege (it’s still controlled by men who won’t take no for an answer) and the way other women will just call you a liar when you try to talk about it. Like, looks are a logical explanation for how some men pick their targets. Women need to believe each other when we talk about this, and not shout each other down because ~~beauty privilege. However it was hard to side with Effy wanting to be a literature student when she was so resistant to the notion of questioning authorship. That’s all we did in my MA lit program.

[@mynameismarines]

If that is what Reid wanted to explore, she needed to be clear and explicit, because SA is often about power and not just/only about beauty, and so to set up a story where the main villain “couldn’t help himself” and emphasize to a concerning degree how beautiful the main character was seems sloppy at best and concerns me at worst.

[@cori24]

A study in drowning is by far one of my most disappointing reads. So many people I follow and watch gave this book 5 stars or just a high rating in general. I had a book club and we read it and I came away with so many questions. First and foremost, did I read the same book that these other people read?? The characterization of the main character was awful and not in a fun way. The writing drove me insane. The plot was held up by paper clips like everything about it made me question what on earth people saw in the book that they gave it such a high rating. I was baffled. I almost dnfed at the beginning for a very random reason (it’s not a big spoiler but a boy asks for Effys number and because I was so lost as to where and when this took place, something as modern as asking for a phone number threw me. I couldn’t get over it. Definitely a me thing tho)

[@kellimartin5262]

I think October Daye gets better and better - I recommend picking up the second to see if you like it better!

[@mynameismarines]

I read the first three! Unfortch the weak plots did not get better.

[@kellimartin5262]

@@mynameismarines Oh nooo. Sorry to hear that :(

[@AJShiningThreads]

I love your videos -- but I wish you would read a few passages from each story.

[@pinklaser44]

That’s a really good idea

[@skyeraedar]

While it may be better in my memory than it would be today, I really enjoyed the Otherworld series by Kelley Armstrong. It was not overly bleak and followed several different characters and the worldbuilding was interesting for me.

[@mynameismarines]

I'm putting together a list of all the things people are recommending to me in these comments, so thank you!

[@EnragedTiefling]

As someone who loves Seanan and Toby Daye, she does get stronger and happier as she and her team grow! But i respect that they aren't for everyone.

[@EnragedTiefling]

Followup: Toby was also previously trapped as an animal, interesting reoccurring theme

[@mynameismarines]

Yes! And I found it so upsetting there too!!! I don't mean that as a critique of either book either. They both successfully portrayed the horror of that kind of imprisonment.

[@mynameismarines]

I do like a bunch of the side characters and I wanted to see that keep coming together, but I think the plot cores were too messy for me. I genuinely kept being so frustrated with the story being told in each book, which seems like too high a price for wanting to see the side characters, you know?

[@ledafrost]

This video is especially crisp 👍

[@aspiring_recluse]

I love the Hollows series, but I started it in the mid 2000s when there were only 3 books out and I just don't think I could recommend it to a modern reader so I don't blame you for not continuing. I haven't finished all of the Psy Changeling series yet, but I think the 3rd book was Caressed by Ice and it's pretty beloved so it would be worth at least getting to that one to see how you feel. The overarching politics is interesting to me. The change of main couple in every book has its advantages, but it also means some books I just don't connect to as much as others. I don't recall if you've mentioned before - have you tried Ilona Andrews Hidden Legacy and Innkeeper series? I adore them both.

[@angelawesneski5029]

I love the psy-changeling series. I actually liked book 2, but I always skip book 4 when I reread. I think your mileage may vary with the earlier books, but like you said in the video, if the plan is to power through to get to the rest of the series, they're amazing. I love the sequel series even more and reread at least a few of the books every year.

[@amychurch]

I too wish I’d love the Toby Daye series. But the things that weren’t working for me weren’t improving enough even ten books in, and the reasons I kept reading weren’t strong enough factors for me to keep trudging through anymore 🤷🏼‍♀️ I want to try more Ilona Andrews though even if they don’t include Kate lol

[@mynameismarines]

This comment made me go on a sidebar of planning the Discord buddy read lol. We need a new long running series to try!

[@intisarmuhammad4511]

I love the October Daye series but it keeps that bleak tone throughout, even as Toby gets more powerful and starts to work thru her ptsd. So lol maybe skipping that one is a good idea. I had the same issues with psy-changeling book 2, it improved as I continued with the series though

[@sokkkasinstincts]

You should consider KJ Charles' Flight of Magpies series

[@CandyNunu]

Nalini Singh's archangel series gave me such a huge ick, honestly. Dubious consent is prevalent THROUGHOUT the entire series, as well as the psy/changeling series. She does not ever move past it; it will continue to be an issue. Trust me.

[@mynameismarines]

That's disappointing to hear. It was wild because I got the ick from Slave to Sensation, DNFed, came back, was like "oh, it's not that bad," went to Visions of Heat, and got the ick lol. I was like.... wait....

[@CandyNunu]

@@mynameismarines what i've discovered is that the people who enjoy these books don't actually notice the dubious consent until you point it out directly. My sister (who loves the series) mentioned to her romance book club that i had big issues with it, and they were all surprised and confused! My point being that you might find it tricky if you're looking for recommendations from these readers and want to avoid dubious consent; they just don't notice it's there to warn about in the first place

[@SabrinaMSabrinasStories]

I've read 4 books in the psy-changeling series and Visions of Heat was by far my least enjoyed - I really struggled to get through that one. According to my ratings, I enjoyed the 4th book the most but I can't remember anything about it off the top of my head 😅

[@jesscanet]

Oh man, I was SO disappointed with ASID I thought i was the only one! After thinking about it for more than 2 seconds it just completely falls apart

[@brendaurquijo650]

Is not just the consent in that second book of the psy-changeling. Is also the fact that according to the author's own worldbuilding if Fate was from any other designation she would've died from his shock terapy to touch lol It is first stated in book 4 and then fully cemented in the world building that certain designation literally die if certain pathways in the brain are not treated correctly before triying to feel emotion and touch. I love that series, the trinity part is much better with the pivot of the series (books 10-13) being really good. But I admit that Nalini Singh makes some bold choices sometimes, like the age gap for book 10. I hope that you manage to keep going altough book 3 is also one of the weakest in the series, at least for me, since it includes my second least favorite couple XD Some couples are a miss but the overarching politics and how the world evolves, that is really interesting.

[@booksandbags]

I was almost reeled in by the hype for ASID, but after reading Lady Macbeth (which was so disappointing), I don't think I can do it. Your review confirms I made the right choice.

[@mynameismarines]

I started Lady Macbeth because I'm so curious about Reid's other work and why people like her so much, but I was like OH NO after like 5 pages.

[@jills9758]

I bought A Study in Drowning at the beginning of the year and still haven't read it, but the more I hear about it the more worried I am that I won't like it (also salty because apparently it has a sequel and I thought it was a standalone). With regard to long-running series, it's been years but I remember reading some of Jeaniene Frost's Night Huntress and enjoying it. (Agree about Kate Daniels though my favorite Ilona Andrews is Hidden Legacy.)

[@mynameismarines]

I've read the first 3 Hidden Legacy and have to continue on with that! I've been making my way slowing through those and the Innkeeper Chronicles.

[@marinakonrad5035]

I'm not sure if you want specifically woman-led urban fantasy, but if you're open to a guy main character, Ben Aaronovitch's Peter Grant series was very well-written and interesting. There's more mystery focus than relationship focus, which is my preferred blend mainly because there's just sooo many yikes relationships in the genre. The main character is literally in the London Metropolitan Police though, so it does read a little differently nowadays.

[@mynameismarines]

Thank you! Adding to my list. And you are right about the relationships in UF. Even in series I love, they tend to lean alpha-male-y.

[@rukbat3]

@@mynameismarinesI have read the first two books in that series, and just wanted to give you a heads up that it was giving me some weird vibes surrounding the way the main character thinks about the women in his life. It reminded me of Dresden files in that regard. If you do decide to give it a try, I will say that the audiobooks are excellent, though, and I liked that the main character is Black.

[@veronicag.6205]

The October Daye and The Hollows series are two of my favorite UF series ever but the early books definitely feel their age. I agree that October starts off very passive, she's depressed after all. But she grows so much into herself over the course of the series and the found family she creates would all die for her. It's funny that I stalled in the Kate Daniels series about three books in. Kate was representative of the typical UF heroine of the time and I think that by the time i got around to reading that series I was just over it. And Curran, ugh. I found him so eyeroll worthy. I could never get into the Psy-Changling series. That one leaned too far into the paranormal romance space for me.

[@bookishcreature8907]

I bought Study in Drowning on a promotion, read the first paragraph, went “nope” and closed the book 😂 I just really don’t like the writing. It’s still on my kindle, I was hoping that one day maybe I could give it a second chance, but after watching this video, maybe not….

[@jevupettechatnoir]

I read the hallow series when it first came out, and enjoyed it. Reread it (and all the books since first time) and absolutely hated it.

[@phasecraftmagic]

A Study in Drowning was my second and final attempt with Ava Reid 😌

[@mynameismarines]

I’m morbidly curious and I feel like I will try one more. Two might also be my limit…

[@phasecraftmagic]

@ I was fully ready to give Lady Macbeth a go until I saw Willow Talks Books’ review!

[@only2540--]

The psy changeling series is honestly one of the best book I've ever read, but the books are very much a hit or a miss. Like bk 2 isnt great, bk 3 is genuinely amazing, bk 4 is infinately worse than bk 2, bk 5 is as good as bk 1, bk 6 is amazing, bk 7 is as bad as bk 4, bk 8 is amazing, bk 9 is good, bk 10 is good, bk 11 is genuinely the worst book. Then you get to the best books in the series in order, Bk 12,13,14,15 in that order are fantastic. I think the payoff of those four books is worth the books that come before. I read them one after the other for like 3 months. Generally, I think its pretty great. Even the book that aren't great are worth it for the bits of lore and worldbuilding that are sprinkled through

[@AlejandraPaolaGuerreroRadillo]

I've read pretty much all the Psy-changeling series, and I don't recommend it. I enjoyed the first 5 books, but they were kinda repetitive. After that it started to go downhill for me. The relationship dynamics got toxic and unbalanced (kiss of snow was the worst offender), the female characters were annoying ( especially Indigo and her aunt, I hate those two), and some of the books had literally the same plot beats ( Play of passion starts exactly the same as Branded by fire, beat by beat). The politics were interesting, and that kept me reading, but it got to a point where it felt stagnant (Shards of hope is the worst in that). I gave up in book 16. By then the stories were more about the couples than the world. And please tell me I'm not the only one who read Lucas Hunter and thought: "Rhysand, is that you?" (In any case SJM copied Singh, since Slave to sensation came two years before ACOTAR).

[@RedlingMage]

I read quite a lot of Seanan McGuire’s books during the 2010s, including those under her Mira Grant pseudonym. I think I got to book seven or eight of October Daye and then lost interest in reading the rest. It’s been so long that I can’t really remember what I liked or disliked about them; I stopped reading them in 2017 because I got massively burnt out on McGuire’s fiction. She’s a good writer, but I found her work was getting increasingly self-indulgent in a pretty distracting way. The Toby Daye books are probably the least representative of her style of all her fiction tbh, or at least the ones I read were.

[@TheNumnutRandomness]

I distinctly remember dropping The October Daye series after "A Red-Rose Chain" mostly b/c it felt like a large chunk of the series was building up to this moment and it kinda concluded with a shrug. Also, a lot of traits I dislike about "alpha Fae" love interests started rearing its ugly head.

[@emmeff3339]

Charley Davidson series is pretty good

[@m4jima]

I am a nailini Singh loverrrr!!

[@Heothbremel]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@Evielundd]

I thought that there was some really unsettling sympathising of domestic violence in here as well. When I read it I was shocked that it had been getting as many high ratings as it had been cause there was some super problematic things slipped in.

[@mynameismarines]

That was my big reaction as well-- confusion at all the high ratings!

[@AlwaysTheStoryCollector]

Before I watch the whole video; I’m a bit scared what you will say about the hollows series! Then again even though I love that series, I can fully see the flaws😅. But even though I do think the series gets better, I hate it when people say you have to keep on reading. Ok time to watch what you will actually will be saying!

[@danielleoliver1734]

Have you read the continuations that have come out the last few years? I’ve been to scared to pick them up

[@AlwaysTheStoryCollector]

@danielleoliver1734 I did! And I love them, but I do think it is because I love being in that world and the characters so much (nostalgiegoggles are thick). They are a bit like the Supernatural series in that way. I like the monster of the week format but get frustrated with some of the choices that were made. I will say Rachel says sorry way less, but her feeling responsible for everything will always be frustrating to me.

[@elizabethnutley8841]

Romantasy: I gave up on it after a couple of duds. Half-baked fantasy settings and romance straight from the trope assembly line is the worst of both worlds. I like both genres and it makes me sad to see them handled so poorly! If a booktuber whose taste I trust ends up liking one, sure, why not, I'll try it. Not this one though, I guess. 😅

[@mynameismarines]

This is how I feel, too. I feel like most romantasy writers are somehow failing at fantasy AND romance. Their attention is so divided, it's like they aren't doing either thing well.

[@supernaturalaesthetic6295]

Ava Reid also went on a rampage on twitter attacking reviewers and people who questioned one of her author friend’s racism 😂

[@mynameismarines]

Really? I hadn't heard about that at all.

[@supernaturalaesthetic6295]

@@mynameismarines It's been a year or twwo but i'll find it again and send it to you if you're interested or if you don't manage to find it!

[@houxli]

I feel bittersweet over the new Ava Reid reevaluation because I read her debut and it was the most insulting book to my intelligence I’ve ever read. Yet I hoped that she would grow after that mess, but it might’ve been because the moments of skill shone brighter around the mountain of the trash in there. She writes for people who cannot keep an idea in their heads past the sentence it appears in.

[@mynameismarines]

ASiD did really make me curious about her other work because I'm like... surely not. Surely this can't be what the people are raving about.

[@GracesOneAndOnly]

wish i had seen this before i read lady macbeth! heard nothing but good things about a study in drowning so i picked up lady macbeth when i saw it was buy the same author and wanted to give it a shot. to be brief one of the worse books i've ever read simply on the fact it was so painful to feel like the author thought she was doing something. (not important aside actual fuming with her whole "savage scot's" noble english pish make scotland look as bad as you want but don't make the posh english cunts look better)

[@AJShiningThreads]

sounds ai -- thats something that ai writing will add in

[@totakluska]

I really liked the detective aspect in Kate Daniels but when the romance came in I had to physically make myself at least skim the pages and then dnfed the series after the third book. I'm still looking for another detective story in an urban fantasy setting that would match this series though 🥲