Would an "All Techs" civ be any good?

[@nhaaaPl]

I feel like this all speaks to how well designed most civs are these days. Many of those bonuses seem underwhelming at first but change the way they are played to a great extent and give them unique strengths, much more so than having all the techs without civ bonuses would.

[@ChargingEve]

Listening to spirit of the law have me +50% work rate irl for absolutely no cost.

[@AH-bf4md]

your personal Bonus😂

[@Hardcore_Remixer]

Channel bonus 😂

[@DinnerForkTongue]

It's the passive team bonus.

[@RaTcHeT302]

IT GIVES ME A 200% PROCASTINATION BONUS FOR ME ... I THINK THIS BONUS IS BUGGED

[@ethantstanger]

yes but you have to consider the setup cost. It might take up to a few minutes to pick and choose a certain video to watch, which cuts into your overall productivity. For relatively small tasks, this setup cost might outweigh the +50% bonus

[@paradigmagabriel7500]

Remember that the "Full Tech" check list on scenario editor don't remove any civ bonuses and unique techs. So maybe you can make a follow up episode about which civs that could go really broken without any tech tree restriction. And also you can made follow up episode about what if every single civ bonuses and tech tree available are combine into a single most broken civs ever (Which is possible through triggers and Civ builders)

[@paradigmagabriel7500]

I also saw the AOE2 community on T90 channel doing the similar thing with the later in which we have 8 player game sharing each other civ bonuses and buff it 10 times. It creates some silly gameplays like Hindustanis Camel with Gurjaras buff that just destroy every building like nothing

[@lautaromoreno3916]

I didn't thought about it that much, and I might be biased because I like archer civs, but just giving Chinese the Bombard Cannon and Siege Ingeniers sounds a bit crazy. Also, fully upgraded Champions and Stable Units... And of course, the discount on all technologies in a All techs civs is crazy.

[@drakmendoa]

There are definitly a few. Franks with bloodlines, Byzantines with bloodlines and the final attack upgrade, Teutons with bracer, Husars and siege rams, Vikings and Britons with Thumb Ring, Romans with most imperial age techs, spanish with siege engineers ...

[@spockamania]

I was just about to mention this! I knew this was a thing in SWGB, but didn't know for sure if it was true in AOE2 as well (though it's usually safe to assume if it is applied to one, it applies to both as same engine, same devs, kinda just new skin)

[@paradigmagabriel7500]

@@drakmendoa Sicilian Paladin that takes less damage from Halberdier and only take 1 damage from Arbalester. Also the Dravidian Cavalry which basically makes Teutonic Knight and Boyar main strength completely useless

[@LittleBlueJug]

LOVE the tiger coming in at 3:34 to defend their homeland. Rest well, sweet kitty.

[@burnthompson286]

Well spotted, I had to go back!

[@mohamedbilal9527]

Do u have adhd? Just curious 😂

[@steel4o]

This is a great tournament idea - all techs or all techs + civ bonuses. I am sure both ideas when given enough time and crazy creative people can create some outstanding games.

[@rabid123fox]

All techs +civ bonuses would be pretty awesome. Overpowered for sure. Think goths with full armor tech trees, stone walls etc

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Civs with big missing units/techs compensated with strong UTs and bonuses would be a monster. Imagine Polish paladins that cost -60% gold, or Dravidian paladins with wootz steel.

[@maudiojunky]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine Celt Eagles with +15% movespeed on top of squires, little racecars

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@maudiojunky laughs in cuman hussars with the cav speed tech on top of their bonus.

[@rabid123fox]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine oooo think French elephants, insane health

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

I remember doing full tech tree on AoE1 when I was little, but Age of Kings having unique units got me to actually start playing civs in AoE2. Fittingly, the Byzantines and their extensive looking tech tree were my original fav before getting more adventurous 😂

[@mitsuhide1vampire]

Remember that mod that let you make your own civilizations? This is kind of a related question: How much would each technology and each bonuses worth taking in count the win rate of each civilization as their total value? Could be interesting as a video and as a way to balance the civ making mechanic of that mod

[@noegthezemeraldghostie6287]

spanish conquistadors don't lose their faster attack speed, it isn't effected by the spanish bonus and just has a higher base attack speed

[@alexhussinger3550]

Some more ideas for videos like this: -What civ would be best with a different civ's unique unit? -What 2 civs combined into 1 (getting all the civ bonuses/unique units/techs of each constituent civ plus access to any tech either of them has access to) would be best? -Same as the previous one, but instead of getting access to any tech either constituent civ has access to, they only have access to techs *both* constituent civs have access to individually. I.e. you're sort of doing the reverse of the all-tech mode, getting more civ bonuses in exchange for an even more limited tech tree than usual.

[@gletscherminze9372]

Imagine Gurjara Tarkans running under your castle or Malian Monaspa with Farimba... There are so many options with the unique units.

[@LeftJoystick]

Let me guess. "It Depends"

[@FFKonoko]

"No, it'd be pretty awful"

[@dogg-paws]

The actual answer is "overall no"

[@doomdimensiondweller5627]

In AOE2 civ bonuses are pretty much always better then tech tree at least without considering unique techs. The Byzantines have one of the most open tech trees in the game (I think the Saracens are ahead of them by 1 or 2 techs) and some of the worst civ bonuses in the game as a result they are an awful civ. The Byzantines also have one of the worst pairs of unique techs in the game. I would also argue one of the worst team bonuses in the game.

[@simpudney8191]

​@@doomdimensiondweller5627 who considers them an awful civ? I've never heard this and have seen them drafted plenty in pro tournaments, including Red Bull Wololo

[@ordinaryrat]

@@doomdimensiondweller5627byzantines are definitely a weak civilization in several metric but saying there awful may be going too far

[@haelww1]

This all tech civ would be a scary water map civ, with a dangerous ship comp. It would just lack a wood bonus.

[@willlewis6622]

Campaign idea for the All Tech CIV: They realize they are in a computer game and draw the ire of all other civs. Each level is fighting one expansion of civilizations, with the final level getting overwhelmed by all.

[@unclequagsire3812]

Or impossible combinations of unique units.

[@pavarottiaardvark3431]

With all techs you've also got the necessary counters to anyone in a 1v1. You can go Infantry vs Gujaras, go with Light Cav against Bohemians etc.

[@ethribin4188]

Question is, how big of an eco advantage is it to use counter units

[@timoflo369]

why is light cav a good idear against bohemians? they have really strong halbs. Gujaras only get spearman, maybe thats what you mean

[@pavarottiaardvark3431]

@@timoflo369 Wagons and Monks.

[@Rosiecringe]

going feudal scouts and being the only civ able to pivot to eagles against all their spears is insane tho

[@kartiksaraf4676]

You don't pivot to eagles vs spears though. You add MAA, archers or skirms. All 3 deal with spears better

[@Rosiecringe]

@@kartiksaraf4676 the worst unit comp u can have defending against eagle raids is spears

[@flydrop8822]

@@Rosiecringe Nah I think skirms do just as bad if not worse

[@codywilliams2615]

With such a huge pivot of going from scouts or knights to eagles is much more expensive than going from spears/pikes to mma

[@peterroe2993]

@@kartiksaraf4676 MAA requires an upgrade, and archers or skirms require a third building. If you have scouts you already have a barracks and eagle scouts avalible, plus they could join your raiding, while costing the same food as a skirm. You would probably do a combined scout cav + eagle first attack as you can train two eagle scouts with your starting gold and only set you back less than one scout. Not to mention the speed, You can queue the eagle scout as soon as you hit feudal, then two eagle scouts by the time you have your first scout cavalry.

[@Labyrinth6000]

I remember playing all tech at an early age and never realizing that I got no Civ bonuses. Highly interested in a scenerio like this!

[@InnerPeaceOuterStrength]

I would probably give the Alltech Civ some Chakram Throwers. Those can get quite oppressive, even though Gurjaras lack Blast Furnace and Squires. Imagine them being fully upgraded.....

[@davidgretzschelcommunicati1630]

And given the feudal Camel Scout and Shrivamsha (both being Blast Furnace enjoyers). Gurjaras are easily the most broken all-tech civ.

[@HadesElderSage]

New civilization. Mercenaries. No team bonus aside from having access to all non unique units/techs. They have no unique unit and no unique techs. Would be interesting to see this tested given this video's information. I could see them being underwhelming but good for newbies to learn the game.

[@zacariasdelalcazar8873]

What about having all shared units for a bonus?

[@Yumao420]

​@@zacariasdelalcazar8873 So Imperial Skirms, Condottieri and Genitours? Brutal, I'd love it Edit: Question? Would they get the Cuman Mercenaries tech?

[@theschwabmob8363]

@@zacariasdelalcazar8873 This idea, sounds amazing! I love the idea, and honestly a Mercenary Civ seems pretty cool to me!

[@kamikazex8o8]

​@@zacariasdelalcazar8873 was thing about a price and/or time reduction on techs buty yours is just as good

[@eepopgames2741]

If they needed an early game boost, it might be interesting to start them with Spies already researched. Would fit thematically with Mercenaries and would not give any additional actual power, but would allow them to properly prepare for what their opponents would be throwing at them early game.

[@EagleTopGaming]

I feel like siege is going to be one of the all techs strength. Because of how rare it is to have all the siege units and techs unlocked.

[@ethribin4188]

Siege is onlycore support. So no. Even the best siege civs cant go pure siege. Nearly always, they are good due to a siege + unit combo. And mainly because that combo includes units with bonuses.

[@EagleTopGaming]

@@ethribin4188 Would you be happy with Spanish if they also had Siege Engineers and SO late game?

[@laguz3413]

Not really, but there are only a few civs who have bombard cannon + siege onager. So it’s not the worse thing ever, plus siege ram eating arrows could be nice.

[@EagleTopGaming]

And one of the few strengths of an all techs civ has is fully upgraded trash. And Siege + Trash is not bad for late game pushing.

[@jaivl1106]

​@@EagleTopGamingthat's better than all techs, since spanish cannons fire faster

[@niks2584yt]

when I hear All Techs, I think only of War Eles + E-Skirms/HCs + Heresy!

[@96samcosmo]

I literally ask myself this every time I watch a civ overview from you.

[@grSuchtie19]

Spirit: Talks about non-existing unit combos. My Brain: Random Bs go!!!!

[@Robert-sq7bp]

I remember asking you this question via email years ago! Nice to see a video breaking it down

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

Now *this* is something I've always wondered.

[@dpaddle]

Cataphtacts with bloodlines AND blast furnace sounds terrifying

[@oldmanyellsatscreen]

Yeah given the cost and time taken to pick up Logistica this sounds like a straight up upgrade in most situations.

[@timoflo369]

Most interesting fact i got from this video: Spanish is the only civ with fully teched trash xd I was recently thinking about the best civ, if you can build your own civ out of all the existing castle techs, civ bonuses, "unit trees" and unique units. Maybe an interesting idear for a video? Could be hard to come up with interesting combinations tho and maybe its not that interesting cause many civ bonuses actually have a good synergy with their units and unique units

[@erikdw8379]

If the section between 05:07 to 05:50 was supposed to show Unique units that get weaker from All Techs in specifically Castle Age then Cataphracts shouldn't really be there. Byzantines' Logistica and lack of Blast Furnace only comes up in Imperial Age, so, if anything, Castle Age Cataphracts would be better for an All Techs civ.

[@sjoerdglaser2794]

When I was a kid, byzantines was one of my favorite civilisations, for how many units they could make. Very interested in how this video turns out!

[@inductivegrunt94]

Weak Dark into Fuedal but potential dangerous if left alone in Castle into Imperial. I kinda figured it'd be something like that. The unit combos are what I'm very interested in especially taking into consideration regional units like Steppe Lancers and Eagle Warriors.

[@ofircahalan]

One thing about feudal that wasn't discussed is that there may be some rare situations when the game dictates you should make a unit to counter your opponent, but you don't because you won't have the upgrades later to improve it, so you instead try to make do with something else. For instance, someone playing with the Spanish might avoid making archers in response to a M@A rush because they won't want to invest in a unit they can't upgrade later. All techs solves that problem allowing you to make whatever unit you need at the time. It's probably not enough to make up for the missing bonuses in 99.9% of cases, but still, it's something.

[@youtubecomments2740]

8:11 "A really hard time finding a good response to this" Scorps and halbs.

[@Wadusher]

full gunpowder is already specifically designed to absolutely annihilate halb siege so that doesn't work lol unless you were thinking of the knight eagle combo?

[@flydrop8822]

The bombard cannons would kinda screw the scorps up but it can be done if played correctly. The goal would be trading the scorps with the hand cannons and try to make the opponent run out of hand cannons to defend against your halbs, once the bombard cannons go down, its over, their army falls apart.

[@Wadusher]

@@flydrop8822 Well if it was just the gunpowder I could maaaaaybe see that happening but the eagles shown there (and realistically any meatshield unit) throws a massive wrench in that plan.

[@flydrop8822]

@@Wadusher scorps can handle eagles if you have enough of them, more easily than knights really.

[@Wadusher]

​@@flydrop8822 having been the gunpowder side of this matchup myself I only see the scorps winning if the gunpowder guy has some serious rookie numbers on the cannons (meaning, like 5 or so vs 40 scorps - I had way more vs said 40 scorps which ended about as badly for them as you'd expect) And halbs are definitely NOT an appropriate choice of meatshield for this matchup, I usually prefer hussars as the scorp player here since they're way tankier vs the hand cannons.

[@oootto2152]

You didn't take into account the most broken all tech + unique unit combo, which would be Persian war elephant with heresy. Then just add some arbalest and siege onagers which they didn't have access to.

[@arnavnandan]

You didn't take into account that opponent is not a bot and will attack early too

[@ethribin4188]

Not broken at all. War elephants are resource intensive. And even with eagles or Hussars as support, heresy just makes a 100 gold unit kill your war elephant. Not a big problem in general, but also keep in mind all tech civ has NO eco bonus to help.

[@BayWa4eva]

full monastery + full siege might actually do a lot on its own.

[@MegaStunfiskandHat]

This was a really good overview of combat, but I would have liked to see some discussion on the eco side. An all tech civ would be at a disadvantage because it doesn't have any civ eco bonuses, but getting all eco upgrades might make up for that

[@sirgodua]

When you throw in water, it might be even more interesting. A lot of good land civs have underwhelming navy and vice versa. Keeping in mind that this civ would also get the last wood and gold upgrades.

[@music7200]

This makes a lot of sense intuitively. You'd expect that in the late game, having all eco upgrades AND unit upgrades would give you great production of a lot of powerful units. Right now, the balance seems to be that you either have a super strong late game eco but are missing some powerful units, or vice versa. Having both would allow the benefit of all of the techs to eventually kick in. In early game though, having all of these techs is less important and thus the bonus is crucial

[@music7200]

I guess if you think about the poles for example, they have an insane discount but don't get paladin. having all techs is sort of like you can get fully upgraded paladin, and also have a really strong eco as well, and the later the game goes the more this should kick in

[@orhanmehmed7794]

There is only one way we can find out for sure - make a DLC with one such civ and check stats after a year.

[@MastaDJMax]

My fav combo while playing All Tech is Huskarl surprise: filling 15 Siege Rams with Huskarls and sending them all off on the enemy buildings, each with a different target.

[@sirlight-ljij]

Imagine an all-tech civ lacking all civ bonuses, but instead being able to research *all* unique civ castle and imperial age technologies

[@petersmythe6462]

The answer used to be a fairly unambiguous "no." The lack of economy bonus or UU/UT would've been crippling. I think they've added so many regionally exclusive generic units though that if you can survive to castle with no economy bonus, the world is kind of your oyster in terms of army comp.

[@elliejohnson2786]

This used to be a very underwhelming thing and I totally forgot that steppe lancers and all elephants exist.

[@SpoOkyMagician]

I was thinking about Persians be good with War Elephants. Since they would get Heresy. (So they won't get converted by the enemy.) Maybe with archers to counter spears. You could probably throw in BBC to like you suggested. (That was the first thing that came to mind.) I'm sure there are other better ideas though... Edit: Oh right... You could have eagles to counter monks too. XD

[@kartiksaraf4676]

I think missionary can still hard counter elephants. They are fast so run away from other units and still be able to kill elephants from range

[@thomasfplm]

Another thing that would be interesting would be to have a list of what civs would be the strongest if everyone received all techs and a list what civs would be the weakest. Supposing they kept their bonuses and unique techs.

[@alejandroschubert1597]

Would an "all tech" civ still benefit from teammates bonuses? I can imagine an all tech civ with access to imperial skirmishers or condottieri being quite scary

[@jean-rogernosecondname1281]

When it's time to choose a UU for all tech civ, you only mentioned one (arambai) of the three UU that would be my top 3 candidates. Two others: Chakram (my #1 choice): loses access to castle age unique tech (25% food, but expensive tech), but gain access to squires and blast furnace, which you want for other units anyway. The latter would have a dramatic effect, since chakram have low base attack but hit multiple target with 100% pass through damage. Composite bowman: gains access to thumb ring, does not lose anything.

[@MaxYoung-Maxinfet]

I really enjoyed the theory crafting here, it's interesting from a game design point of view.

[@paterson90]

Just something random, i think it would be cool if a new civ or if they add to an existing one where there is a new seige weapon. I feel like there are more medieval siege weapons that could be added and there really hasn't been anything unless you count like siege elephant or hussite wagon. And I'm not suggesting anything super OP or anything, just something to be added to a civ to mix it up.

[@harooooo1]

Probably the best bet for the generic civ would be to stick with heavy eagle use in castle age, as well as using them in feudal with archer+eagle, a combo thats quite popular in the last year on arabia for meso. Another good argument for it is that Incas from few years ago after villager nerf were one of the most generic looking civs and yet still performed above average on Arabia due to having Eagles.

[@FFKonoko]

Except their eagles would be the worst possible eagles. Inca eagles armour is pretty notable loss for generic civ.

[@harooooo1]

@@FFKonoko But that only comes in late imperial age. I am talking about feudal and castle age.

[@seyproductions]

All tech civ + Gbeto + Britons shepard bonus. I would dig that.

[@davidgretzschelcommunicati1630]

Some other things worth mentioning: The best baste civ for all-tech would be Gurjara, with zero competition. They would keep their Camel Scout in Feudal, which gives them hands-down the best early game. They get Shrivamshas, which gives them the best mid-game. And they would get Blast Furnace+Squires Chakrams, giving them easily the best late game. In general, Elephant Archers with Parthian Tactics, are a pretty interesting option. Siege pushes would be a bit more flexible, as you can either go Ram or Armored Elephant, depending on whether you have food or wood. Hitting Imp, you can insta-make Dromons and add Elite Canon Galleon later.

[@iamsick5204]

Elephants and slingers might be good

[@CreepSoldier]

A game mode with all unique tech and civ bonuses enabled would be fun

[@zacariasdelalcazar8873]

This is why in the Barrelgrounds, civs keep their UTs in all techs

[@jacksons9546]

I’ve been wondering this since I started playing galactic battlegrounds decades ago. Love your stuff spirit, keep it up

[@branaden]

Could you imagine a Galactic Battlegrounds DE… 🥹

[@michaelandreipalon359]

If they do a Definitive Edition, they BETTER NOT get outside the Legends continuity.

[@jadekaiser7840]

I feel like the unique unit would probably fit best as something that can take advantage of the wide open tech tree. You mentioned Arambai being potentially good because they would get access to extra upgrades (due to being a hybrid cav/archer unit), so maybe something like that. Or even something that gets like a small extra HP bonus or something for every blacksmith upgrade researched, even ones that don't otherwise affect them. Something that turns the breadth advantage into a depth one, basically.

[@XaviusNight]

I kinda want to see an "all techs" with some reasonably balanced bonuses of some sort, or even a really powerful but lonely unique bonus.

[@NolDragon]

Now to have an All-Techs, All Civ-Bonuses, All Unique Units and buildings civ !

[@nixishierfrei]

When you made a case for the Goths as the stand in for the Eagle HC BBC late game comp I was a little surprised, since my first thought jumped to Hindustanis instead. Should have waited like 5 seconds before writing this, huh.

[@Ytbinger]

I was literally thinking about this last week and here we are!

[@DispariScuro]

I guess they wouldn't have any kind of eco bonus... but be in an exclusive club of only 3 civs with all eco upgrades. They'd also have fully upgraded defenses which itself is fairly rare.

[@petersmythe6462]

One thing I think that could help a lot is the sheer unpredictability of an all techs civ. They get so many different unit choices that their opponent really has no idea what's coming and therefore will have a hard time coming up with an effective counter. Like, if you scout them and see 2 stables, what are they gonna send your way? The answer is you really don't know.

[@rovsea-3761]

Spirit I hate to say this but the eagle/hand cannon/bbc combo that you theorized... well it loses to all cavalry civs. I wouldn't be surprised if Eagles without any of the Unique techs struggle vs Hussars in even just a 1v1, and with their low rate of fire hand cannons aren't exactly great vs cavalry either.

[@m136dalie]

Conquistadors + eagle warrior seems like a deadly combo

[@Taydris0]

combining some of the fast moving infantry seems interesting such as Gbeto and Eagle Warrior RattanArcher and EagleWarrior also SteppeLancer + Missionary would be pretty neat

[@robdillenger4763]

I think the best way to play an All-Tech civ would be to focus on Battle Elephants 🐘. Every ele ciz has either an innate or UT bonus, BUT also glaring weakness from the Stable, Blacksmith, Monastary (counter-monk techs), or both. No Ele civ has all Smith techs AND Heresy+Faith. Then to deal with Ele's regular counters: Spear-line, Camels, Mangonel-line, and Monks (who can still kill your 'phants from long range) you could use Archer-line, Bombards with Siege Engineers, maybe a UU like Gbeto could work, or even Mangudai despite lower attack rate. It wouldn't come online until partway through Castle Age at the earliest, but I love my big 🐘boys so much that I want to believe it would work.

[@prdiludi4432]

All same building sprite share tech and units. That would be fun to explore

[@vongola8902]

nice new video! toss this civ to Clowns and RF guys they will fighter it out very quickly

[@jaredmoore3825]

I love to see Gurjaras Disc throwers and Fully upgraded Battle Elephants. The natural counter to Battle Elephants are pikes/Halbs, but Chrackrum Throwers shred them so bad. 😃

[@gordonwittrock3402]

I think all techs civ with their bonus being .1% boost to vil collection rate, carry capacity and or resource efficiency (resources last longer) per tech researched or something similar would be thematic. It would also help them catch up late game as most combos that have a lot of potential would be very cost prohibitive, especially without any eco bonuses. The strong combo you mentioned of bombards eagles and hand cannons would be incredibly expensive without any eco bonuses especially if there is early game aggression as you will likely be trading less efficiently due to lower military count and less overall collected resources.

[@justincronkright5025]

The full tech tree I don't think fully/wholly/inherently precludes you from EACH sort of civ bonus... that seems like a bit of a stretch. But for Unique Unit, I'd try for either ***Genitour***... or would be creating a new one that's an archer focussed one. Something like a cheap Karambit, but at range. Would need that quick fast army to get something done against enemy civ bonuses!

[@vladimiralexanderlagos1477]

SoTL once again answering the questions nobody had ever asked, but that we can't go without an answer to now that we are aware of them....

[@timii072]

I LOVE YOU I ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT THIS QUESTION

[@RazorWinter]

0:20 correction. If you pick it in the scenario editor you don't lose the civ bonuses. (At least it was like this unless they changed it)

[@lordlard2833]

Something I would keep in mind is that you have the elephants to work with and heresy. Can’t have those elephants sent right back at you.

[@ICHBinCOOLERalsJeman]

the best that comes to mind is cav archer and eagles. Eagles can dispose of the trash units and cav archers melt through everything else. Ultimately though I am not sure if any composions can make up for the lack of discounts.

[@crazymagoo6694]

Berbers with fully upgraded camel archers, seige rams, bombards, and halbs would be really fun. Camel archers without healing but with Parthian Tactics would be stronger in some matchups.

[@Agarillobob]

all tech civ sounds interesting and fun, Id think they would need a new unique unit and maybe a general bonus that only applies for dark age and a weaker version of that bonus for feudal age to make up for it maybe something like -10% resource cost of everything in dark and -5% in feudal and once castle starts the bonus is over

[@kruezritter9129]

Can't wait for your cabinetry business "Spirit of the Drawer"

[@MerdaPura]

I'd like to see Full Tech tree games but Civs retain all civ bonuses

[@petermuhlenbrock9087]

Video suggestion: best empire wars civ prior to RBW7

[@trexcath]

6:26 Let me stop you right there When you play as the Incas with all techs enabled and you research Chemistry, the Slinger button is moved elsewhere in the Archery Range menu and you are able to create Hand Cannons

[@trexcath]

One other thing to note is that the Armenians and Georgians keep the Mule Cart with or without all techs enabled, but they do lose the Fortified Church with all techs enabled. All other civs lose their unique buildings with FTT enabled

[@highdefinist9697]

The developer team should consider implementing a civ like that for some kind of temporary special event, for example have it available for two weeks... it would be interesting to see what would happen. Personally, I believe it will do a bit better than the video implies, for two reasons: - Since an All-Tech-Civ has a large amount of reasonable unit combos to choose from, the other side has to invest more into scouting to determine what is actually happening. Also, the All-Tech-Civ will be able to make an ok counter to basically everything the other side has. So, it is both quite adaptive and quite unpredictable - It also might be more straightforward to play, since you "simply" have everything available, so it might do better than usual on a lower skill rating The lack of dark age bonuses will still prevent it from doing really well, but ultimately, I would not expect it to have a below average win rate.

[@TweedleDeeAoe]

I think the analysis should have focused more on the unique unit. Some UU are purposely missing certain upgrades, so having all techs makes them dominant: Chakrams with blast furnace, Arambai with all defenses, composite bowmen with thumb ring. Also, I think elephant archers with all upgrades and heresy become quite good too.

[@pocketgroyper9301]

Cumans all techs would be interesting. Kipchaks with max range and fully upgraded battle elephants with bombards/siege rams would be nuts. Jannissaries with paladins and siege onagers would also be OP in imp.

[@JoeJoGEHrt]

I had a propose for the original Civilization like Atlantis or Annunaquies... This civ shouldn't have any passive bonus, no unique techs, instead will have the full tech tree unlocked. But this civ could be access and 5° age, after the research, the civ could be rich a huge catalog of techs which sould be the other civs bonuses (stacked and combined) plus the access of every each unique unit...

[@PapyWouane]

SOTL has a knack for answering all the questions we ask ourselves at night lol

[@KyriosHeptagrammaton]

I think a fun question is also, what nation would they be? My first thought is either the Mongols or some sort of Persian/Arabian civ. The Mongols because they took the tech of the places they conquered and they basically went everywhere in Asia and Europe, and the Persians/Arabians because Baghdad was the centre of technology and trade for centuries. Another contender is the Spanish/Philipines. The Phillipines has a crazy history of being fought over by people ranging from the Tlaxcala to the Ottomans, and the Spanish are responsible for bringing a lot of the parties together.

[@pacificsalmon1504]

Best civ to use as base might be Cumans or Hindustanis. With Cumans you would get Kipchak that are 5% slower than usual but with +1 attack/range which might make them really good. Hindustanis would get an even better version of the Ghulam and FU Imperial Camels, which would of course not have the attack rate increase but would still be a good unit.

[@Mechsrule1]

Possibly some sort of cavalry mixture with cavalry archers, steppe lancers and cataphracts?

[@Mortality90]

Idea maybe for this concept. What if you could only research so many techs before the rest get locked. You then still have options for anything but also maybe some generic eco based bonuses. Or your civ techs allow you to research more things after an initial cap. OR- your techs cost X% more after a certain percentage of techs per age are researched. So you get, for example, 12 techs in Castle age at normal rates, but each over that adds 1-5% increased cost. Minus time I think.

[@tehesprite502]

This civ doesn't need nerfing lmao.

[@serenno6045]

When I was a kid I used to always enable all techs, because when I got to the Imperial age I would be annoyed when I realized that I picked a civ that couldn't just spam a million paladins.

[@Aoedam]

Gbeto with blast furnace makes me shiver

[@Phantomsbreath]

I mean, fully upgraded Camels + Knights + Skirmishers sounds like a *very* good time.

[@pacificsalmon1504]

Pretty much Tatars

[@Reluxthelegend]

I am curious about a civ whose bonus would only be all team bonuses combined and no other bonuses

[@fluffydestroyer8336]

could be cool to see some matches with high-level players where they can pick this "generic civ" and see how it performs in various matchups and on various maps

[@fadhilyudistira8819]

as someone who enjoys gurjaras and malay, I don't want to lose their bonuses for wider tech tree

[@SvanTowerMan]

It would be interesting if there were a Mapuche civ that starts with Eagles like any American civ, but can switch to Knights or Light Cav in Castle or Imperial Age, possibly gaining that ability through a unique tech. They'd still be able to train Eagles, opening up a unique combo, and they'd also get gunpowder units, basically being a fusion of American and European civs. Also, the Conquistador isn't affected by the Spanish bonus, as it's hard-wired to fire faster, so I don't think that would go away in All Techs.

[@darkcrafter-ht1wc]

I would imagine, that the winrate - elo relation would be strange. Low elo would be slightly negative overall, as while getting to the late game will happen, the lack of direction is too much to handle for newbies. In Mid elo the win rate might become a bit positive, still longer games but a basic understanding for the civ is accomplished and knowing some "unbeatable" comps will help. And high elo the winrate will suffer to 20-35% or something like that. No early and mid game combined with an okay imp and good post imp is beaten so easily that it will be so sad to watch. And good scouting will hamper the winrate even more.

[@TheNinjaLamb]

Wonder if the opposite would even be playable. All bonuses/ unique units with essentially no tech.

[@zchen27]

Early game would be rough since most unique things need a Castle at the minimum.

[@Dave_The_Musical_Fisherman]

It sounds garbage at first but could create some silly stuff. Militia with tueton and Malian bonus for armor. Viking and Armenians for hp. A few civs for cost reduction. A few other bonuses sprinkled in. Unless you are an infantry civ, they might outclass. Unique tech cost would be pretty brutal though.

[@ICHBinCOOLERalsJeman]

yes

[@Dave_The_Musical_Fisherman]

On second thought, eco bonuses would screw up everything. You'd be a god if they could stack and still incredibly and unfairly OP if they didn't. Dark age vils would be better at everything. Moving, building, any kind of gathering.

[@peperoni_pepino]

So a civ with only the techs that literally every other civ has , but with every eco bonus ever? That sounds OP, you start with more villagers, get more villagers each age, don't need houses, villagers are more efficient in multiple ways, etc. Someone playing this civ might win every game with a militia rush, though indeed they will lose it if gets to imperial.

[@ethribin4188]

Main question is, which UU you have. Because it will get you to your power spike of the imperial age. Based on that, I actually think UU ypu get early, like Sargents and Slingers, are the way to go. Even then though, raw power in imperial is lacking, and the power comes from flexability. Which however requires skill exclusivly.

[@UndeadFil]

This is fun to think about in theory, but I would love to see it in action, for example with pro players, or just a regular good and knowledgeable player like you against an AI, in various civ matchups, to really have a feel of how it bodes. I love it when I see strategies in action that prove that a civ is busted. I'd love to see it with an all techs civ, or whether or not it's the case. More interestingly perhaps, I'd like to see how a civ performs in a mirror matchup, but one of the two has all techs on and the other doesn't. Which civs are actually better against themselves with all techs on? Does this carry well to different matchups? There's so much to explore and it would be great to actually see some live examples.

[@datman6266]

Yes! my childhood questions answered!