Would German schism with the Church be a big blow?: Last Week in the Church with John Allen Jr.

[@FaithfulGuitarTutorials]

Could you guys turn up the gain in John’s mic? The volume we viewers get is extremely low. Thanks!

[@lilianawebb8687]

❤❤❤Gracias thank you por tanto amor 😊

[@2Uahoj]

A schism does not have to be a formal break with Rome. Many assess that the German Catholic Church is already in de facto schism.

[@TP-om8of]

And many would say that Francis is in schism with the church.

[@2Uahoj]

@@TP-om8of Well that would be impossible, as by definition a "schism" is about groups or parties.

[@TP-om8of]

@@2Uahoj Impossible things are happening every day!

[@robertfeinberg748]

The War College is in Carlisle, PA, which is pretty close to DC Metro, which Gettysburg, near Carlisle, is actually part of.

[@galaxyn3214]

20:17 Why wouldn't an explicitly atheist-materialist government and a theocracy get along?

[@mrkiplingreallywasanexceed8311]

Always a pleasure to hear JA chitchat jovially for half an hour, even if on rather portentous events... As an "outsider" in terms of religion, but as a keen amateur historian with particular interest on the all-too-human RCC, I can say that the collection of schoolboy squabbles, Machiavellian manœuvrings, power struggles, financial skulduggery and, frankly, handbags at dawn absolutely rife in the upper echelons - in other words, widespread and deep seated evidence of very much terrestrial rather than celestial behaviour is strong, if circumstantial, rationale for my continued atheistic outlook. Once again, it is the simple, understanding and humour demonstrated by our esteemed host who exhibits it seems to me, more holiness than the entire hierarchy, save, perhaps, for the Pope himself albeit if push came to shove, I am not 100% sure I could place him ahead of JA...

[@patrickmelling8404]

Don't be seduced by the headlines. The Pope is the guy throwing his handbag around, because he hates the Church as an organisation. Even lives outside it.

[@TheGariego]

Just like the first 12 that betrayed and abandoned Jesus. If you're expecting to find the perfect church on earth, you never will. But it's still THE Church

[@TheLeonhamm]

The one who makes exceedingly good cakes? ;o)

[@driggsbaylon4655]

🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦Pope Francis is a very good Bishop of Rome. And I fear the reaction of our Lord to those who cannot see their way.

[@paulhudson4254]

Have another cup of kool-aide! 🔥✝️🔥

[@glynissequeira5544]

Time 23:45 IF your report is true, a big wrong has been done to the Church by those church members who opposed the bishop of that diocese of San Rafaela in Argentina. These members are wrong and rebellious and will cause problems for the Church. The Seminary seems to be a source of lawlessness. Disciplinary action should be taken against the Seminary and all those priests who opposed the Bishop. The bishops of Argentina should support this Bishop in this matter.

[@driggsbaylon4655]

❤️🀄📃🇻🇦⛲🛩️🎻🌉Arianism once was so powerful majority in the Church were Arians! Yet the Catholic Church bis still in existence by grace of the Holy Spirit. 🦋🌹🐑🪔🎷🧵

[@CrankyGrandma]

Yep. Focus on Christ. I’m Catholic for Christ. The people of God (Old and New Testament ) have always had problematic people God is true.

[@DSTH323]

With all due respect, John, Archbishop Ganswein was very likely more familiar with Benedict's non-diplomatic opinions than Francis and you, no?

[@Threemore650]

So will there still be Latin mass?

[@Jimboken1]

Arthur and Jorge say: "not for long".

[@1900trent]

great point re new arch of Toronto, at just 51 and only a bishop since last September. This is meteorotic rise for sure. He had some diplomatic work for 5 years or so, but obviosuly this prelate has caught the eye of many. But like John Paul II he could be in the top job for a 1/4 of a century and no doubt a cardinal’s hat sometime. Reminds me of Abbot Hume who became Arch of Westminster, made a bishop and 12 weeks later a cardinal. in position for 20 years. Similar rise under Paul VI.

[@willweeverknow696]

It may well be that Germany, being the richest, can afford to defy a lot of Rome's central advice and push forward with topics that many others would like to push, too but can't. Topics like married priests, power sharing or women's ordination maybe too hot to touch for many smaller, less wealthy countries, but with Germany pushing through and taking most of the flak first, they may actually like it. Think of the issue of married priests for South America.

[@Jimboken1]

@@willweeverknow696 You actually believe they 'defy' Pope Francis? All the evidence suggests they are quietly encouraged by him. So the means are right up your alley as well.

[@willweeverknow696]

@@Jimboken1 I think the German bishops would feel much happier if they felt encouraged by the pope. They are really struggling here to keep their church together.

[@Jimboken1]

@@willweeverknow696 At best they look like the Anglican bedwetters who bowed to the mob and guaranteed the destruction of their Church. The Catholic Church under the former pontificate would have ensured the majority of Anglicans would become catholic over the next decade. Not likely under Francis.

[@allthenewsordeath5772]

@@willweeverknow696 And the church by her nature cannot reject her own magisterium, if she did that she would cease to be the church, and equally so cease to have any claims of authority whatsoever, the German bishops really do not seem to realize that the only way for the German church to stay together and to stay in the fold is to remain authentically and truly Catholic in terms of her teaching. No, this may be rather intuitive but the reason why there were more vocations to the priesthood and religious orders in the past is because people believed the faith. It is as simple as that, we do not need to break with teaching and tradition and start ordaining women on spurious grounds, nor do we need to break with the reforms of pope Gregory the great end, and eliminate the requirement of priestly celibacy, we need to believe in, and live the faith, to stand against the world, and show joyful witness.

[@alfonsvancraeynest2461]

It is a sad fact that this pope is chiefly a political leader with a bit of liberal religion thrown in. The world loves him which speaks volumes.

[@Jimboken1]

If it was true once upon an earlier time which I doubt, it's not true now. He's held in the same esteem as Joe Biden by leftists. He's not the other is all.

[@enriquemora3718]

His then not of Christ because the world loves him

[@christianclavel7231]

I am shamefull to be a Roman Catholic....

[@enriquemora3718]

@@christianclavel7231 what do you mean of what your saying, are you ashamed to be a Roman Catholic ?

[@driggsbaylon4655]

🎯💐❤️🌎. ANIMO ENRIQUE! Very good question!!!👒🏡🛩️⛲

[@TheLeonhamm]

Why would the German Catholic bishops lead their - ideological - faithful into schism from Rome .. when Rome says, repeatedly, that, ideologically speaking, it wants (more or less) what those bishops say their people want; the difference being in timescale and who is to lead whom in the process? Whose assessment of Benedict XVI is correct - neither; the Pope's rosy-tinted perspective and the Archbishop's slightly darker hint-of-a-tint are two sides of the same coin; tails, Ratzinger now has to be .. rehabilitated to fit the new-new New Message, and heads, Benedict had to be careful in dealing the lupine merchants of the New Message (in so far as his version differed from theirs). As for the Bergoglio Management Team agreement (mainly via the then Cardinal McCarrick, now Mr) with the Communist Party of Ch*na it seems to be almost the exact opposite of the concord agreed with the Weimar German Republic (of ruling President von Hindenburg, Adolf being his Chancellor not head of state) under Team Ratti (through Pacelli, later Papa Pacelli); one agreement was handed a Mitt Brenender Sorge statement .. the other .. most humbly accompanies in a listening dialogue = wherever the State seems to want the Church to go. Archbishop-designate Frank Leo, awaiting 'instalment' (sounds rather painful, like a joiner fitting him up as a new kitchen, or an overdue payment needing to be remitted, etc), sounds like an interesting career path chap; secretary to the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (that's a dirty job and a half), the Diplomatic Service in Honk Honk and Down-Under, a Marian devotee .. one hopes of soundly Catholic type - but the Grand Séminaire de Montréal may bring a shiver to some spines .. I am not sure if the St Irenaeus FSSP church, Montréal, is part of the Seminary's Outreach Team a L'inventaire du patrimoine intangible religieux du Québec (a bit too parvenu, and add in .. well .. not quite, you know, they're just not quite). Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek. God bless. ;o)

[@johnfisher247]

If you read Seewald's biography of Benedict XVI written by asking over 2000 questions of Benedict you will see there has been an anti Rome sentiment amongst the Catholic academics since well before ww2.

[@johnfisher247]

The idea of an agreement with Communists in China is similar to the concordat signed with the Nazis after their coming to power in 1933. Prior to that the bishops had opposed Hitler and declared excommunicated any Catholic who voted Nazi. The Catholic vote fir the Nazis was 22-24%. Hitler was elected by the largely lapsed Protestants. The Nazis broke the concordat but by bit. The agreement with Communists in China is similar. The agreement is secret...but they still persecute Catholics.

[@TheLeonhamm]

@@johnfisher247 Indeed so. The Germans had a permission from St Pius X not to implement the Anti-Modernist purge among scholars - because it would undermine the Church's credibility in Germany. Benedict XV was much loved in Germany in part because he assisted Germany after the crushing defeat in WW1 but also devotedly because he ended the worst extremes of that hyper-ultramontanist drive .. viewed well not least in the Ratzinger family. Papa Ratti's concordat, however, with the (still Weimar) republican Reich, then in political turmoil - even after the NSDAP wangled control in Hindenburg's Enabling Act was significant - the Centre Party was not the concern of Holy See, the welfare of the mass of German Catholics (40% of the 1933 population) were, the German - Holy See Concordat was signed in July and ratified in September (the German elections of March '33, neither free nor fair, had given the NSDAP/ DNVP a workable majority with or without a National Coalition Government, itself replaced only in November '33 with on Party Rule). God bless. ;o)

[@TheLeonhamm]

@@johnfisher247 Similar but distinctly different. In July 1933, though the NSDAP were in power in the parliament of the German Reich - not the steadiest of places in the 1920s-30s - the Concordat was between the German Reich (i.e. sovereign commonwealth, under Paul von Hindenburg); this, for better or worse, is still in place .. being the still existing German State (now without the NSDAP - the DNVP was a junior partner to the NSDAP in 1933, restored Post-War in variety of democratic parties; the Centre Party was not restored, even via the Christian Democrat Party, the BVP was largely restored as the CSU). The Concordat with the Ch*nese Communist Party is with Chin^se State for they are now (deemed to be) inseparable, the Party is the State and the State is simply the Party's self-expression (not the case in Germany even in 1933, that changed in 1938, which was the last election under the then fully N-zified version of the Constitution of the German Reich*, aka the Weimar Republic .. itself ended in 1945, replaced in 1949 by the Basic Law). God bless. * Operative in theory only, having been suspended under Emergency Powers, after 1939 the NSDAP talking-shop parliament convened only a few times, ending in 1942.

[@alouie001]

No because western Europe isn't a source of growth in the Church. If the US were to split it would be very damaging.

[@DrexelGregory]

Interesting the Pope took Collins’ resignation. I wonder why

[@ricardusdanisworo3086]

Every 500 years Germany gave birth to false teacher

[@helenamoreira2066]

E ainda há quem duvide ???

[@rev.esparzacp]

@JonhAllenJr ... You can still pass for a 51 year old!

[@anng.4542]

Hey, Germany has to maintain its 500 year old tradition of rebellion, doesn't it?!

[@fernandosaludes4515]

A - Germany should learn of Ukraine schism. About 200,000 Ukranian Catholics left the Catholic Church and joined the Ukranian Byzantine rite when in a decree in 1920 the Church required the clergy to adopt mandatory celibacy. B - Ukranian Schism 100th anniversary in 2020 the year war started that still going on for more than 3 years already.

[@here_we_go_again2571]

A situation like the current one in Ukraine, but brought about by different circumstances might be the result.[1] Not all of the German bishops and priests are on board with the majority of the German bishops. *I hope and* *pray that the people of Germany do not have to go through this sort of* *schism and upheval!* *I've got to say that the situation in Ukraine is a mess!* 😒 I have tried to outline it below[1] _____________ (1.) Upon the take-over of Crimea (2014) the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church kicked out pro-Ukraine pastors and bishops in Crimea. Since then, Patriarch Kirill has been backing Putin's war on the people of Ukraine. (including trips to the rebels in Dontesk urging them to kill others) The ROC had jurisdiction over Ukraine's UOC (Ukrainian Orthodox Church) for many centuries. *In 1921* , proclamation of the UAPC (Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church) was made separating it from the Patriachate of Moscow. This church WAS NOT recognized by the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. In 2015 The country of Ukraine took ownership of the (now) UNESCO heritage site: Saint Sophia Cathedral and Related Monastic Buildings, i.e. Kyiv Pechersk Lavra (Kyiv Monastery of the Caves, founded 1051) The Russian Orthodox Church (Patriarch Kirill) was not pleased. On 11 October 2018, the synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate announced that it would "proceed to the granting of autocephaly to the [Orthodox] Church of Ukraine" making it independent from the Russian Orthodox Church. This decision led the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church to break communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate on 15 October 2018, which marked the beginning of the 2018 Moscow-Constantinople schism On 15 December 2018 a unification council founded the OCU (Orthodox Church of Ukraine) The UAPC joined this council along with other breakaway factions in Ukraine. On 5 January 2019, Bartholomew I, the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, signed the tomos that officially recognized and established the Orthodox Church of Ukraine and granted it autocephaly (self-governorship). The events immediately leading to the grant of autocephaly were: Recognition: Autocephaly recognized by: ... Ecumenical Patriarchate (5 January 2019) ... Patriarchate of Alexandria (8 November 2019) ... Church of Greece (19 October 2019) ... Church of Cyprus (24 October 2020) Merger of: UAOC, UOC-KP (Ukranian Orthodox Church -Kyiv Patriarchate ................. UOC-MP (Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Moscow Patriarchate (partly) Separations: Parts of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kyiv Patriarchate .................... on 20 June 2019 (see Conflict between Filaret and Epiphanius) Members: 78% of the Ukrainian Orthodox population (March 2022, study by .....................Info Sapiens; 52% of the entire population of Ukraine) Other name(s) Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Most Holy Church of Ukraine Official website www.pomisna.info Primate of OCU: Metropolitan Epiphanius, 1st of Kyiv and All Ukraine The headquarters are in the Saint Sophia's Cathedral of Kyiv. St. Michael's Golden- Domed Monastery is used as the headquarters of the Metropolitan of Kyiv and all Ukraine The UOC-MP (Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Moscow Patriarchate) decided NOT to seek compromises and to fight for Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra Monestary Patriarch Filaret was a former Metropolitan of Kyiv of the Russian Orthodox Church (1966-1992). After joining the Kyiv Patriarchate, he was defrocked and in 1997 excommunicated by the ROC. On 15 December 2018 the UOC-KP ceased to exist Patriarch Filaret was restored to Communion (by the Ecumenical Patriarch, Bartholomew 1st of Constantinople) and retained his episcopate.He is now styled as the "Former Metropolitan of Kyiv" (Metropolitan of Kyiv, emeritus)

[@rolandrabier5984]

Nothing new under the sun, the Germans already split with Luther.

[@rtrevalexislarue3515]

“Schism” is pronounced “sism” NOT “SKism”… although more people say the latter because it’s been mispronounced by people who should “no” (sic) better

[@LS-ei7xk]

Thanks for pointing that out! I once had a professor who would correct us, every time we mispronounced it. It was driving me crazy, too. : )

[@david_porthouse]

What about sXizm where X is the chi sound?

[@michaelhaywood8262]

i alway get confused as to the correct pronunciation of this word 'sisum', skisum' or 'shism'.

[@LS-ei7xk]

@@michaelhaywood8262 See above. It's "sisum" (or "sism").

[@johnsondebbie5]

Actually, there are 3 approved pronunciations for anything that begins with SCH. The French and Germans don’t pronounce SCH as a K, but in English, we DO.

[@JCrow-kz4nw]

The US would be wise to maintain good relations with China, including trade relations. But Biden Admin. foreign policy has been disastrous in all respects.

[@Bill-dj9hv]

It's all about the money.

[@enriquemora3718]

Then he is not of Christ because the world loves him?

[@enriquemora3718]

I believe if the Catholics and their leaders will agree that when Jesus said to Peter that. On this rock I will build my church, then if that rock is build on Jesus Christ then his church will be a solid foundation , but if it’s build on Peter a small rock the foundation will be not solid, to prove Peter is very much like us whimsical or changeable , why do you think Jesus Christ in his all wisdom and knowledge leave his church to Peter, pope Francis or even us, off course he can give us the key to heaven being able to lead people to the kingdom, but not put the foundation on fallen men but put it on Himself the solid Rock who is “Jesus Christ” Amen- common sense-wisdom ask God who says He gives it Generously without fault finding. James 1:5.-“ if any of you lack wisdom , He should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.”

[@patrickmelling8404]

Francis, playing the man not the ball as usual. Maybe he was referring to Cardinal Roche, who seems to have a whole game plan ready to roll.

[@johnfisher247]

Unless all the German bishops are removed and replaced (except the 5 good German bishops) there is already a schism. There has been a schism on the ground.

[@sibbeltriloni8478]

🤣🌈🤣🌈🤣🌈🤣🌈🤣🌈 Nö, Liebelein

[@enriquemora3718]

Don’t reject the infallibility of the pope, the faith of all Catholics will shatter or fall because of you revels

[@Fedko3037]

Let those Bishops leave and start their own church separate from the Catholic Church. Excommunication is the only way.

[@sibbeltriloni8478]

Du kannst gerne gehen. Wir werden unsere geliebte katholische Kirche nicht homophoben Spinnern überlassen 😘🌈😘🌈😘🌈😘🌈😘🌈😘🌈

[@johannesnicolaas]

Ganswein is a intriguer, better to send him back to a very dark German wood.

[@Jimboken1]

And why would you know what Pope Benedict apparently did not?

[@stephenbaker7079]

Too many Americanisms and too many references to American way of life to be understandable to non-Americans.