The Stagnation of WordPress & The Rise Of Competitors

[@choonah]

as a web designer, working mainly with builders like bricks or elementor i never really ever cared about FSE or gutenberg to be honest. It feels extra to me. What i would love to see in near future - wordpress getting better backend UI, focusing on enhancing CMS, security.

[@mksundstrom]

Agreed on the Gurtenberg part. Too little too late. Divi, Bricks and Elementor have taken what's missing from WordPress and packaged it well.

[@webdesignburgdorf3028]

@@choonah Gutenberg was bad in the beginning, and it seems many have never given it a second chance. But IMO meanwhile it has become really good, in particular if paired with extensions like Generatepress or Kadence. Clean and fast. Especially Generatepress can be used quite similar to Bricks. Not the same, just applying some of the good practices that Bricks promotes. For development, I'd still prefer Bricks, but for editors, Gutenberg is much easier.

[@ivan.jeremic]

You guys are so delusional and missing out it's mind boggling...

[@mrrolandlawrence]

@@ivan.jeremic you prefer visual composer?

[@K9Stryker]

As a client-not a developer-I insisted on WordPress because of its open-source nature. This gave me the opportunity, with my years of PHP programming experience, to tweak the code as needed. Later, I learned about hooks and filters, which allow for functional modifications without touching the core code-an elegant solution I greatly appreciate. While I may be an exception rather than the rule, I firmly believe open source is invaluable, regardless of a client's technical abilities. It empowers both developers and clients with flexibility and control. On a separate note, I want to thank you, along with Jeffrey, Imran, and Mark. Your videos have broadened my understanding, reduced my hesitations, and given me the confidence to implement site enhancements on my own.

[@mattsterp748]

@@K9Stryker your not the exception at all. Everywhere outside of Wordpress open source is better understood and appreciated. I’m not sure how any WP builder thinks the tools they use would even exist without open source.

[@MyOwnPufferFish]

What Wordpress needs is a standard way to handle custom data. Something simple that allows to make collections and query them easily , like webflow does. It's not very complex but that's what people need 90% of the time, instead of having to deal with acf and everything being a post

[@patrick-mahinge]

ACF should be a core part of WordPress, especially now that it's integrated with Custom Post types

[@JensHolgerHopp]

That's the reason why I don't use Wordpress but stick to Drupal.

[@mrrolandlawrence]

ye its terrible. you have to make your own custom plugin to fix that. not something that is to recoup cost for small projects.

[@alexmorgan85]

Would I be correct in saying that during the Gutenberg/FSE era, Thomas at Bricks has come along years into the era, developed Bricks with a much smaller team than WP and has far exceeded Gutenberg/FSE in usability and scalability?

[@WPTuts]

Pretty much, yes!

[@GrantHawkey]

Definitely! No question. And they continue to iterate and advance much quicker and in more useful ways. Another example of a startup showing the established players how it done 😉

[@wordpressjunkie8830]

Truth, but Wordpress has to worry about millions and millions of users while Bricks as good as it is is has a much smaller user base and we kinda know what we signed up for by using Bricks.

[@BrockBarr]

I have spoken to developers who work on Gutenberg and there is a very important consideration..., Hundreds of thousands of people who do different stuff are using FSE, so making big radical sweeping changes is not really an option. When you're working on a third party product then The sky is the limit.

[@DadangSopandi-ln2pd]

You are comparing a small boat with a container ship 😂

[@ChicWebCraft]

Totally agree with the Block Editor being a lousy experience and the lack of consistency. Would love to see WP back as a core product.

[@ivan.jeremic]

Block Editor is amazing the problem is the wp community was not ready to learn and full of dashboard clickers without technical knowable.... the block editor is so powerful only really experienced people will see it and know how to use it correctly.

[@lefteris2583]

I'm using WP for clients sites since the 2.5 release. In my studio, we were always building sites with our own custom themes+plugins to enhance the functionality. We also used Pods in the beginning and ACF since its release. We never adopted frameworks like Elementor or Bricks although we tried to. Our clients need to have a simple interface just like using a form with different fields. So, I believe, the idea for an open source core WP is really a very good one. Everything else should be a plugin and NOT free.

[@johnnada]

You're spot on. Most people like me want the core fast wordpress platform and then want to apply add ons on top. I don't want anything built in I want to do it all through a plugin. Many people are starting website to make a busniess and provide for themselves. They don't have time to do all the technical stuff that real developers do. That's why wix and those other junk web builders keep getting popular. People just want to increase sales and not have to get a coding degree to know how to do it.

[@wherezthebeef]

Agreed, learning curve for Wordpress is nuts as is the setup , prelauch checklist, I'm just trying to get a simple site or blog, not launch a space shuttle...

[@FixiousMaximus]

8:20 WordPress currently notifies users if a plugin hasn't been updated within the last few WP releases, which is nice.

[@hendox7117]

@@FixiousMaximus and the plugin portal shows when a plugin was last updated, what version of WP it is tested for and ratings. I always look there before using a plugin.

[@maxziebell4013]

I respectfully disagree with your assessment about people's indifference towards the freedom of software. While users may not explicitly request specific platforms, there's a notable second-order effect in platform adoption patterns. The data shows growth in SaaS platforms, but it's important to contextualize these percentages. WordPress maintains a dominant market share, and while SaaS platforms show higher growth rates, this doesn't necessarily translate to market dominance. The growth in SaaS platforms primarily reflects users' preference for simplified setup and maintenance, rather than a wholesale shift away from traditional platforms.

[@carbonrich]

Yeah, concluding that people don't care-based on Wordpress at ~40%+ marketshare and the competitors in single digits-is not a particularly hot take. And even if clients didn't care, it's professional's responsibility to look out for them, and not lock them into expense proprietary solutions where they don't own their data etc. The internet is increasingly a corporate trash can of shit, and why is that? Because capitalism took over and f'd it. And no, I don't support what Matt has done.

[@WPTuts]

@@carbonrich just for clarity, I stated 'in my experience' and also asked for anyone with a different experience to comment about theirs. It wasn't a hard statement that people don't care et al. I wanted to clarify that point as it's important for it not to get lost in the comments.

[@mattsterp748]

@@WPTuts why not just that to me. Sheesh.

[@RobSaville1612]

Great video and I’m with you completely on this Paul. Personally I think that Gutenberg, the block editor and FSE, should be 100% optional as plugins. As you quite rightly said, for the many of us who prefer using Bricks, Breakdance, Elementor or other tools, it’s annoying to have them bolted on by default. Reminds me of phones and computers that are preloaded with extra crap that many of us never even touch. Pulling them from core WordPress would leave us a relatively lean platform as a starting point. That’s after all the beauty of WordPress - it’s open source and we get the freedom to choose what we add, based on individual wants, needs and skills.

[@OsvaldoGago]

Two decades ago we were working with a close source CMS. The reasons to not use a close source today are the same as they were at the time. Having said that I think it's fine for a website with a short lifespan.

[@StefanMarjanov]

Yes, I agree with everything. Old WP (before the FSE and Gutenberg) was perfect. Slap CTP on top of that and you have the finished product.

[@steveiws]

Long live the customizer. Blocks are great but FSE is just silly. FSE should have been integrated into the Customizer.

[@GodCenteredTheology]

I can speak from my experience. I love Wordpress but I still use Kadence and Spectra for blocks because core does not have responsive settings like they do. Until Wordpress does, I will not be fully core.

[@JamesMucci21]

I agree 100% that blocks and FSE should be plugins - that would really be amazing since mostly I build in Bricks these days

[@GodCenteredTheology]

I use Wordpress for the CMS and I use the ASE Pro plugin for my custom taxonomies. I like a lot about the Wordpress block editor when combined with the Kadence theme and Kadence blocks. I would like to see Core be as lean as possible.

[@UpperValleyWeb]

I didn't realize that ASE Pro had custom post types and can work with Kadence. Interesting!

[@GodCenteredTheology]

@@UpperValleyWeb Yes!!! I did not know that either until I started looking at it. I was amazed! It works really well too! It has custom fields, custom posts, and custom taxonomies. I mainly got it for the organization of media files but then found that bonus!

[@GoustiFruit]

Are people still browsing websites/blogs ??? I just checked my bookmarks (100-200 ?), they are all about *services* (web apps), online shops, communities (reddit/YT/X/forums). I'm not even using a RSS reader anymore, I dumped all the news sites. Who is still reading articles ??? I'm bothered because I was planning last year to create a blog or two, but I don't understand why people would read my articles when personally I'm not interested in doing so. And now that at least 50% of the content is created with AI, and should reach 90% next year, what's the point ? People search for solutions, for facts, not the hubbub blah blah automated generated.

[@MrGetawebsite]

Websites are still needed be it blogs, news or commerce, social media should be a touch point that leads to the website but I think people are now want everything in front of them under 1 app example Instagram where they read articles, watch a video and even buy unfortunately I discovered the shop feature in Instagram is very limited and restricted to certain countries but I understand your comment

[@zaandam0172]

Dude I got like over 5000 thousand bookmarks easily searchable...

[@tjsayers5428]

My feedback: I’ve been a hand coder for 20+ years. I disliked working with the old Wordpress, too much out of my hands and relying on third parties for a functional website. I really dislike bloated Elementor. I’ve been working with full site editing and the block editor for a couple of years now and like it. I have been able to do what I want to do with core, with very few plugins. Yes, there are a few things that should be included in core (like custom fields) and some things removed from core and be offered as extensions (agree with your duo tones point!) Having a modern dashboard and not moving items to different locations with version updates would go a long way for usability too. I like being able to tweak. I would not build a site with proprietary software like WIX. I’m probably in the minority here, but I’d like to see WP continue to grow full site editing.

[@justastream8522]

Agreed! Most of my work is done with a blank block theme or a child theme from the default 2024 (now 2025) theme, and custom blocks. I hate the idea of using site builders but to each their own, so having a default vanilla alternative is the perfect solution in my opinion.

[@stripedgoat]

It doesn’t even encourage css classes to be used. Gutenberg is just a weak execution of the page building experience. Crappy UX

[@MysticOblong]

I was asked to recreate a WIX site for a charity because they wanted to avoid the high yearly fee. I used the Full Site Editor to recreate the site by eye and only needed a few lines of CSS to make it identical to the original with a few improvements. I'm a coder and usually avoid the bloated builders. Gutenberg did everything I wanted with few hiccups along the way and this was a novel experience because I usually do everything by coding. I found videos from the "Jamie WP" YT channel helpful when creating layouts etc in Gutenberg.

[@theashleybash]

Agreed! I like using a basic theme (2024) and the block editor. I don’t need any plugins for most sites.

[@LiLaLizzy8]

Thank you for that comment. I also think Elementor is too bloated. Sad that most seem to hate the block editor. I really think you can build beautiful websites with it.

[@visualmodo]

Excellent job!!!

[@phildavies7852]

Guten*** started as a plugin....should have stayed that way.....

[@wherezthebeef]

Gutenturd, you either love it, or hate it... wait, nobody loves it, maybe 'tolerate' , I personally hate Gutenberg and it's too late now, WordPress is married to Gutenberg, would be nice if there was an amicable divorce but I don't see that coming..

[@VijayKumarIM]

I can feel the pain in your Voice while explaining and we can feel it too... So sad happening in WP

[@dmathiasen]

Really good thoughts. Thank you PC

[@StephanBerrill]

Will you look to other platforms or have you started to already Paul?

[@fnjoya]

As a client-side Project Manager, I think the debate should no longer be centered around the "open-source" nature of a tool, especially nowadays where we see lots of libraries with "propietary-like" behaviour. The debate is about not incurring in vendor-locking, which gave my team a lot of relevance when our WP projects got impacted this year because of the politcal fiasco we all suffered from the WP-Automattic vs WP Engine incident. It's not about open-source, it's about choosing providers that adapt fast to the market before their competitions does, because we all depend on our providers' capabilities first, especially when their 'Propietary' End-User Licence Agreement says so.

[@BrockBarr]

Potentially, Elementor could be a 'patch' until WP core gets up to scratch and becomes good enough to be the primary WP builder.

[@IstvanM10]

cpt and multilingual should be in core

[@UpperValleyWeb]

Also, imagine what would happen if WP changed nothing at all about the backend structure, but just made it aesthetically look consistent and more modern. I bet people would be happy.

[@mehdimoradi603]

do WordPress developers listen to their community to focus on more important features ? and is there anyway to setup a live with them?

[@webdesignburgdorf3028]

13:46 "Who makes the decision?" - we know who, and that WP needs to get rid of him to allow for actual progress in the interest of the community again.

[@DadangSopandi-ln2pd]

If you don’t like it, just fork it and build your own “YourPress” with your vision, spending your time, money, and life-if you even have those to spare. 😂

[@kiesbett]

i am working for years now only on my own wordpress site to present my artwork. wordpress was always nice and easy to use, but then came some new editor, blocks and gutenberg and what ever, and i must say since then i hate wordpress. these stupid blocks drive me crazy, so yesterday i returned to the twenty seventeen theme 😅 just to get a site that works and is understandable for me. my paintings i present in a linked PDF, to avoid to work with wordpress. i think a lot of "hobby web designer" will leave wordpress because it has become so difficult and too complex for them. in germany we call that "verschlimmbessern", make something good worse and worse because the developers have to come up with some new stuff from time to time, right?

[@wherezthebeef]

Stimmt, genau!!! Between Verschlimmbessern and 'Entsh|tification", I think we have: Wordpress in 2024 .

[@ScottStoll]

I'm "just" a blogger - the end user of WordPress. But all these issues mentioned have made it agony for me to keep my site working.

[@MrGetawebsite]

I think what needs to be done is have a base engine that includes the core engine , with out of the box support fo creating custom fields same as Acf, and based on that you can create pages, posts or any other content type you need, how you display the content is based on a different section that you create the layouts and designs, seo, multi language settings should be part of the core , i need to write my thoughts and see how i can come up with a complete software solution to use

[@aydendankworth]

It's interesting to see how people can have these opinions. I can totally imagine a scenario where wordpress would have stayed at it's core like you suggest. Now imagine that in the future it died off, and people forming opinions how it should have adapted, as "people want everything to be built-in, today nobody want's plugins, it should just work after installation" not saying you're wrong, not saying you're right. But i think the decisions are not that easy.

[@subiatz]

Como no tengo otro medio de contacto. Te agradecería mucho, si puedes activar la traducción automática se tu audio al español, es una opción nueva de KZbin. Si lo pudieras hacer para todos tu videos sería genial. Me 3ncabtq tu contenido pero se me hace difícil seguirlo en inglés.

[@OrangeToGo]

I think i8n and custom post types / fields should be part of core. Matt mullenweg might be forced to buy advanced custom fields at the price of its market evaluation as he stole and switched every user. It could become part of core then. It's funny because there is also Pods which is working really well and is non profit so i think they would have loved to become part of core for free.

[@patrick-mahinge]

Or he could just fork it

[@dmarketingacademy619]

Very useful

[@Nodsaibot]

They are HYPER focused on developing a page builder no one wants. and its a SPAM MACHINE out of the box you need to disable comments individually in all your new installs

[@jhall128]

Simple Scales, Complex Doesn't. Customers don't want to be "locked in" to software providers with proprietary software that get bought up and closed to keep competitors at bay. That's the main reason we have open source. Open source allows for any host and any WP programmer to build with WP plugins. With AI programming (Cursor, V0, etc..) things are changing.

[@anmarm.9487]

i think WordPress is great, however from technical prospective i think wordpress needs to Solve/Add multi-language support at its Core.

[@patrick-mahinge]

I started learning a new tech stack in August. None of my websites will be on WordPress by the end of this year, 2024

[@joineri8806]

On US probably they don't talk much about open source and control of the data. As someone working on Government project and Multinational corporate that do care about open-source and who hold the data. Also, Pricing is one of the factor why most company don't want to use Spotify, Webflow, etc especially outside USA and Europe. To expensive. Speaking from experience.

[@warblog6165]

I don’t see a problem here. It’s typical of a company that has reached that market share; attracts competitors and I think WP have done well to maintain their position. This is a typical marks and Spencer situation but WP have overcome the associated problems. Not qualified to speak to the technical issues.

[@mailwood1388]

For me wordpress is a user-friendly backend first and foremost. Frontend options can be a great many. Don't forget about the mode of WordPress as headless cms c NEXT or NUXT. Therefore, imposing any one frontend for WordPress is wrong. The system should remain universal in this sense.

[@SeanMcGown]

Client: How is what you're going to build me going to make me sell more and work less.

[@MuntzDesigns]

WP is King and always will be!

[@dave1790]

We all know who makes the decisions 😂😂😂

[@iamalifawad]

If you know who makes the decisions, You can't call Yourself a "WordPress Developer" as it's a registered trademark lol 😅

[@WPTuts]

@@iamalifawad a developer of WordPress stuff.. ;)

[@iamalifawad]

@@WPTuts Yeah, That's Better lol

[@DimitryChamy]

“WorpDress™ Dev since 2006”

[@codeAlongwith]

WordPress should have more built in methods of creating obfuscation of paths so that the cms is not so vunerable!

[@mksundstrom]

You only care about Open Source when you understand why you should. My clients don't care because they don't know what the advantages are. I make the effort to remind them that they are not 100% reliant on a single company (including mine) for hosting, CMS and add-ons (plugins and themes). I think WordPress as a company is damaging the very core principles of open source by stagnating in spite of having a huge opportunity for evolution, and for creating this drama we're not talking about.

[@pkg2885]

Agreed …

[@xReTuneSx]

I still hate Gutenberg. Developer experience and Backend should be more accessible to the devs.

[@alxbengosu]

We know who makes the decisions. Mullenweg and Autocraptic

[@PromptTheory]

Open Source? Not so much. But being locked into some proprietary software that has no support? Everything. As with anything, it’s all about community and adoption.😊

[@iXzenoS]

Overreaction as usual, just like with the Adobe situation. Current market leaders like Adobe and WordPress aren't going anywhere, not anytime soon anyway. Personally though, I wish WordPress has a major redesign ground up, with the latest coding standards to make it lightweight, modular and future-proof.

[@WPTuts]

@@iXzenoS how is it an overreaction? There was no reaction, just a look at some interesting data backed information and a discussion about those points raised. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@iXzenoS]

@@WPTuts Right, the data shows recent stagnation, but not a decline, which to me suggests that WP will continue holding its market share for the foreseeable future and there’s not much to be concerned right now. I mean nobody would probably even be talking about the current state/direction of wordpress if the ongoing drama hadn’t happened, so that’s why I think people in general are simply overreacting to the situation.

[@wherezthebeef]

Not overraction, just honest assessment of state of WordMess.

[@iXzenoS]

@@wherezthebeef Yes, the assessment is a reaction to the WP drama. And I think the community is overreacting as usual. WP isn't going anywhere, just like Adobe, whether you like it or not.

[@Elsteck]

Joost is pronounced as Yoast 😃

[@WPTuts]

Let's just admit that things were lost in translation. ;)

[@787carswebmarketing4]

Gutenberg is boring and not easy to use.

[@dracula5752]

i can't agree with you core is trash compare to laravel is 4-5x slower and no composer in 2024... when if you check most plugins using it, we have some clients coming with bedrock versions of wordpress. And talking about plugins why we don't have forms or multi-language, acf, seo integrated in wordpress most people need it. WP engine brings light to it wordpress makes money from plugin creators, mafia 101.

[@mattsterp748]

Your correlation makes no sense. Those platforms are rising for many reasons that have nothing to do with open source. Open source is also about the underlying technologies such as JavScript, HTML, etc. Many companies have used open source as marketing and confused non-developers. Stop blaming open source for WP weird implementation of it. also, If you think outdated plugins on the repo are bad, wait until you hear about NPM, lol.

[@WPTuts]

It’s not my correlation, it’s what is outlined in the referenced article.

[@mattsterp748]

​@@WPTuts It's your most people don't care about open source comments. Open source isn't for most people to understand correctly it is for you and I, as developers or implementors, to understand that these tools we use and create rely on open source in the underlying technology. Like I said dont let WP's weird implementation confuse you.

[@WPTuts]

@@mattsterp748 I plainly said that 'in my experience, no client I've ever worked with ahs expressed an opinion or desire for the project to be built with an open source solution!' If you want to quote me, please get it right. ;)

[@mattsterp748]

@@WPTutswhy are you upset chill man. I made my pint clear and in the comment you deleted too. I thought you wanted our opinions. Next time I’ll keep my comments to myself WP KZbinrs are very sensitive. Like I said they don’t know much about open source just like you.

[@WPTuts]

@@mattsterp748 I'm not upset at all - just want to make sure things are clear and my point not taken out of context. As for deleting any other comments you've posted - that's not me, that's KZbin flagging something and removing it. The only time I remove a comment is if it is abusive and that happens almost never.

[@lubach_]

LOL, at kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5uUkmCfm69lpK8si=fomKppTgqQeziObD&t=7 you pronounced "Joost" his name right the second time, when you said the name of the plugin. It is literally pronounced YOAST.

[@jensgur]

Mind blown

[@WPTuts]

Lol - my aplogies to all that I have offended. lol

[@lubach_]

@@jensgur Yep, I wonder how many non-Dutch speakers never got where the name Yoast came from. Basically the name of it's founder "Joost" is pronounced like the English "Toast". Replace the 'T" with a "Y" and you got...

[@ivan.jeremic]

People are adopting FSE you people are just lazy to learn something new.

[@WPTuts]

@@ivan.jeremic great assessment that totally misses the reality of it all! 🤦‍♂️

[@begzadaculafic5497]

SaaS is overpriced.

[@hendox7117]

What about a video about the State of the Word presentation by Matt Mullenweg, Paul, as well? kzbin.info/www/bejne/gX3ck3trjtt8hrMsi=0iOGrd1lAU0sMUlx. Personally I was inspired. And the people who I work with *are* definitely interested in open source because it keeps their costs down. If you make money out of web development or a website and can pass those costs on to customers then you can pick and choose your platform - so be it. If you are in the charity sector it's a different story. Personally I do not think you can properly criticise WordPress unless you contribute to the project.

[@WPTuts]

Define contribution? Does it only manifest itself in writing code for the platform or does it not also encompass educating potential users how to best use the platform and build and maintain successful websites? Contribution comes in many formats.

[@bob-p7x6j]

@@WPTuts Agreed. Many people, including myself wouldn't have become familiar with these tools without YT and content creators, how many people study from video now as opposed to books/website blogs......

[@hendox7117]

@@WPTuts Chwarae teg, Paul, but we all know that people contribute videos to YT for a variety of reasons, Paul, some of which apply concurrently. Personally, I have found a number of your videos helpful, which is why I subscribe. But the people I build for don't want/don't want to afford builders, they want core, as I wrote. And my main point was that the presentation I watched by MM was inspiring and I remain feeling very positive for the future of WordPress. It may not address the issues you wish to see, but there is a path forward. If you wish WP to address the issues you raise, I am afraid it needs a different sort of contribution beyond posting random videos to YT, I am afraid. You have to get stuck in. Nadolig Llawen i chi.

[@WPTuts]

@@hendox7117 I appreciate that and it's good that his words have given you confidence in the future of WP. For me personally, what he's done since the last public statement he made at the end of the US WordCamp has had a far greater negative impact on WordPress and the community at large. It's going to take more than a few words to recoup that trust. ;)

[@hendox7117]

@@WPTuts There's more than a few words. I am about to watch the Q&A that followed but the issue you talked about was touched upon in the presentation (which included more than just MM). I understand you feel differently and that is your right. The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on, eh?

[@xReTuneSx]

I still hate Gutenberg. Developer experience and Backend should be more accessible to the devs.