Writer Bret Easton Ellis on Cancel Culture | Louisiana Channel

“People shouldn’t be canceling each other. They should have a conversation.”
American author Bret Easton Ellis wholeheartedly opposes the growing notion of cancel culture, which he sees as dangerous to an open, liberal, democratic society.
“A group of people purporting to be on the side of the good telling other people what they can watch, listen to or see is absurd. It’s ridiculous. That’s not a free society!”
“I don’t understand it. I think it’s about power. I am not quite sure if the people really even care. I think it’s about virtue signaling. Showing how sensitive you are rather than really grappling with the problems inherent in the painting, in the song, in the film, or in the book. That’s a discussion. That’s a conversation people should have.”
“I think everybody is so literal-minded right now. That’s part of the problem. They can’t see something as something else. Metaphor seems to be missing in society.”
Ellis opposes the praxis of re-writing manuscripts from a different time to accommodate present discussions and standards. He also mentions instances where people have resisted group pressure within organizations to cancel, for example, authors or publications.
“I think what people need to do to fight cancel culture is to just say no. Simply say no.”
Bret Easton Ellis was born in 1964 in Los Angeles, California. He is a best-selling American novelist, screenwriter, short story writer, and social commentator whose writings portray, in his words, “the most pessimistic and ironic generation that has ever roamed the earth.”
He debuted with the 1985 bestseller Less Than Zero, a tale of disaffected, rich teenagers in Los Angeles while still an undergraduate student at Bennington College. Since then, he has published six more novels, including The Rules of Attraction, American Psycho (dubbed by Rolling Stone “the most controversial novel of the Nineties”), Glamorama, Lunar Park, Imperial Bedrooms and The Shards, as well as a collection of stories, The Informers. In 2020, he published his first work of nonfiction, White, a defense for the freedom of speech in the social-media age.
Ellis’ works have been translated into almost 30 languages. Four of his books-Less Than Zero, The Rules of Attraction, American Psycho, and The Informers have all been made into films. American Psycho has also been transformed into a Broadway musical.
Bret Easton Ellis was interviewed by Marc-Christoph Wagner in June 2023. The conversation took place at Ellis’ Danish Publisher, Lindhardt & Ringhof, in central Copenhagen.
Camera: Jakob Solbakken
Edited by: Signe Boe Pedersen
Produced by: Marc-Christoph Wagner
Copyright: Louisiana Channel, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art, 2023
Louisiana Channel is supported by Den A.P. Møllerske Støttefond, Ny Carlsbergfondet and C.L. Davids Fond og Samling.
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[@anitchlikadze3451]

,,People shouldn't be canceling each other. They should have a conversation.'' ❤👏

[@blued6425]

Tell that to them

[@beebop-girl2132]

Please release the whole interview :)

[@nansenscat9315]

Wow. I was unaware of the Criterion censorship of The French Connection. That is alarming. 😞

[@benfisher1376]

I love that movie.

[@dn7096_]

Dissent is essential. We are too polarized. We need to find common ground. Thank you sir 🙏🏼

[@birgittemunch3886]

Great to hear BEE. We can do a non/cancel culture ... yes, we can!

[@chrisquinn9104]

This whole uproar about cancel culture is nonsense. They used to call it a boycott and it was what you did to avoid and discourage unethical, dangerous, disingenuous, people and companies. If your buddy wants to give another right wing fascist a pulpit at Simon and huckster, so he can quell his curiosity and make a buck, that’s his prerogative. If others find it objectionable and don’t buy the book that’s their prerogative. Not sure how him being gay somehow gives him a pass and by the way he’s sill punching down. The media in our country has been consolidated and basically controls the dialog in its content for both sides, and people want to piss and moan about cancel culture. It’s Pathetic, and anyone up in arms about it is a sucker.

[@johnfalkenstine8377]

It would be great if excellent writers like Mr. Ellis would show up at school board meetings where mental midgets are busy forbidding books to give the people and children threatened by this nuttery some backup.

[@scot2622]

it is sad that lack of free speech is one of the few things the left and right agree on

[@DonatienAlphonse]

Are you kidding??? Bret is a Right Winger, now. It's Right Wing Republicans who are banning books!! He supports a party that bans books and is anti-gay just to say he's "anti-woke." I would say he votes against his own interests, but he doesn't bother to vote or educate himself on any issues. His entire existence is watching porn, cooking shows, and going to dinner at expensive restaurants ... a pitiful existence, really, a total waste.

[@singlespies]

Well said.

[@ryangunwitch-black]

I love Bret. He’s brilliant.

[@anthonylynch4737]

Anazing Writer Like no other !

[@bookpogo]

Doja Cat being his example killed me

[@Marc911964]

🙏🏻

[@lissamatthews]

The art of discussion and debate with people of other opinions is becoming...lost.

[@doclime4792]

Okay but I'd argue there was always only a small percentage of the population capable of doing debate on any one topic and it remains so today. If the problem is witch-hunting and dog-piling then the people contributing valuable pieces of information just gets drowned out. Even this interview with BEE is just an obvious platitude that people shouldn't need to hear but the lack of cultural centers and intellectual curiosity is directly caused by social media companies training people to offer lukewarm and virtue signaling opinions every night and day of our dwindling existence! Now is this a problem that can't be overcome? In some ways I think we are culturally cooked but I think in this case people just need to step back from letting social media govern so much of their literal existence and thoughts. Read the opinions of people you disagree with! God forbid we critique things on our own. It's incredibly easy to find holes in opinions these days because everything is based off of outrage and engagement.

[@Bpthu]

Can't wait to get home and turn on my Doja Cat Rap CD.

[@deepashtray5605]

Like what's going on in Texas and Florida? Cancel culture is not exclusive to any political ideology.

[@cmralph...]

What's going on in Texas and Florida is the silencing of minority voices and re-writing of history, Book Banning, which has increased 1,100% since 2020 needs to be left in 1933 Germany, not 2023 America.

[@shenanigans3710]

I don't think he's asserting that. However, creatives have a lot more pressure from their own peers than they do from hysterical southern bible bashers who have no industry power at all.

[@deepashtray5605]

@@shenanigans3710 Creatives do tend to over inflate their sense of self importance.

[@shenanigans3710]

@@deepashtray5605 Of course! Look at the writers and painters putting out statements on Israel, like anyone cares what they think. This is one reason, I'm certain, that they love nothing better than attacking their own. It's one of the very few areas of life where they can make a tangible impact - blackballing someone because they have supposedly "problematic" views on a particular issue gives them a real power rush.

[@user-mr7bz2wi4c]

By this, I assume that you're referring to the ridiculous hysteria over state-imposed books about graphic sexual encounters in children's libraries? Nothing was cancelled there. Those books are widely available in adult libraries, retailers and online for anyone who wants to see them. But if you want to call teaching 5 year old Timmy about butt fucking multiple men in one night, then by all means, do it.

[@anitchlikadze3451]

💯👏

[@planbnewssource8259]

Love shards. Thanks for being awake

[@DonatienAlphonse]

He's not awake.

[@snails9505]

Prurience in arts that he alludes to is only one side to cancel culture, which emerged primarily in relation to sexual assaults and still is an important aspect of high profile people being cancelled. Whether it's right to fully cancel someone for these convictions once justice served is another issue. But I think both these main aspects should be mentioned and separated as much as possible, as often a generic retaliation against 'cancel culture' is used as a kind of defacto cry in defence of abuses of power for sexual gain. i.e. taking advantage of the unclear definition of this term, and muddying the waters even further.

[@ArtofComics]

preach it.

[@witchestoast8347]

Bret looks like priest in some way haha

[@blueberry3168]

You forgot to mention Mark Twain.

[@Mindfookfilms]

Imagine if he wrote American Psycho in the 2020s. Thank you BEE for speaking out against this evil anticulture Cancel mafia. You, along with Bukowski, Selby jr and Ellroy are my favorite modern writers. Thank goodness you all wrote before this sh'tf*ckery cancel mess.

[@Leo-Crespi]

Beautiful.

[@absolutenamechannel]

big feelings going on here, big spots on the sleeve, passionate, he does it again, he snapped his fingers and had those 300 heads on a silver platter, LET HIM, we have to let him, it's about power, it's about context, it's about integrity, walk with me, how long do you think these old fellas are gonna last without the jokes?, let him dish out the punishments, he listens to rap, let him listen, to Doja Cat, under the covers, just a big guy listening to his favorite tunes, little special word, ah yeah, it’s about context, you don’t believe me??, look, look at him right there, he's doing it right now, there's one airpod in his non-visible ear blasting Doja into his system, this is how he stays large, at large, he can't be defending freedom without the tunes

[@obyarnold599]

Asinine. Everyone is free to say no to Cancel culture, just like everyone else is free to say no to listening to certain people/voices. As to S&S, it’s important for democracy that the people who make a business run have a say in what gets made

[@reggiebryant2029]

This is legit the craziest thing I've ever read. The guy sweeping the floors at nasa gets to modify the rocket? No, just no.

[@coledouglas5356]

This whole interview is grossly decontextualized Does our art and media not have real life repercussions?

[@suek3898]

Thankfully, I don’t take seriously the things people say while wearing sweat pants.

[@autofocus4556]

Thankfully they don’t care what you think either.

[@katiegibson1724]

The fact that he admits he's the wrong person to ask about this at the end should have signaled to the interviewer and producers that this content is not even worth posting, especially considering that it will likely distract from anything of substance he might have said in the rest of the interview. You'd think a professional writer would be able to articulate a more compelling argument against something as dumb as cancel culture than "I don't like it" or "that worries me," but he doesn't, so why post it, except to get more views? Click-baiting and cancel culture are both ingredients in a politically toxic stew, and it's sad to see Louisiana Channel serving it.

[@shenanigans3710]

Quite the opposite. I think someone who admits they they don't have all the answers and are uncomfortable being turned into a mouthpiece is showing a degree of rationality and, more importantly, humility that is totally lacking in an online discourse that rewards the opposite.

[@tony3181]

I think @shenanigans3710 makes an excellent point here. There is certainly 'substance' in acknowledging what you don't have the answers to and hopefully this excerpt encourages more objective and nuanced thinking among its viewers.

[@birgittemunch3886]

What are you doing ?Why musts Louisiana channel be slammed for this... They are fairly non-censured publishing all kinds of "strange" opinions - from voodoo to "I am to great for this world"...

[@tslilbearshoppe9870]

It's funny because when they cancel someone or something, the other side does the same to them...they really do not like it! lol

[@WhatsTherapy]

lol ok what does he know exactly though

[@wedthree]

This reeks of a person with vast privilege who is unwilling to do the work to understand the context in which their privilege exists. Been trolling and trying to "trigger" millennials for so long that he has become an irrelevant sensationalist voice. He carries this nauseating confidence based of past successes but is ultimately quite rigid, frail and predictable. Out of the public eye? Loosing relevance? Release a controversial statement that the Guardian will pick up and chalk it up to "trolling" later. I enjoy the insight that the artists on Louisiana Channel provide into their own process but given the current state of the world posting a video of an old white dude talking about cancel culture seems a bit tone deaf and out of touch.

[@mimad4923]

I'm an immigrant and have lived within marginalised communities for most of my life. And I believe in absolute free speech. People who have been tested by life and have faced true adversity are not triggered by another individuals opinion.

[@wedthree]

@@mimad4923 You're conflating two things. Being an immigrant, living in marginalized communities, and facing adversity doesn't have much to do with this mans ability to not see past his own ego. In fact i'd say that this bootstrap mentality (that the more adversity you face and the harder you work the more you are able to deal with things that life throws at you and thus will achieve more success) that we are forced to adopt in marginalized communities actually dulls our senses to things that we should be outraged about. Free speech only extends so far as another persons rights. It is definitely a essential part of society but If free speech fuels and further proliferates hatred and bigotry (like it is allowed to do on social media and there internet) then it is no longer free speech.

[@mimad4923]

@@wedthree facing adversity and carrying bucket-loads of trauma is not something people choose to do, it is something that people are forced to do. And I believe that, yes, those who have had to deal with a lot, are often more driven, empathic, resilient and grounded than those who have never had to fight for their right to even just survive. However, that doesn't mean that someone who hasn't experienced my trauma is not allowed to speak on the topic. I don't have to agree with them and heck, I don't even have to like what they say - but that shouldn't mean that they immediately need to stop expressing their views. If we all stop talking in fear of offending someone, where will we be?! If someone is choosing to use negative rhetoric in order to convey their opinions, that's on them. In fact, I think it just reflects back on who they are as a person and its plain for all to see.

[@travisbickle1601]

Not sure he's lost relevance? Latest book has been very well received. His points are valid regarding outrage culture.

[@troy5731]

No one has more privilege than the trust fund hipsters who write the columns you pretend are your own ideas. Absurd combination of insecurity, pretentiousness, self indoctrination and trying way too hard to identify with a responsibility free victim class thre sport. Give it a rest.

[@edwardferry8247]

This is either deliberately disingenuous or he is that isolated from the reality of the world in totality that anything beyond soft furnishings and nice light is an inconvenience.

[@cpanczak]

He’s absolutely right

[@matthewrocca4197]

No it’s actually people who are quick to be offended by everything that are, more often than not, the ones who are isolated from the reality of the world. People who are truly suffering from racism for example are probably not the ones stewing about offensive language in a movie. They’re too busy living with it and dealing with it, and more often than not, they seem to realize the difference between reality and movies. Ellis is making a very nuanced point about censorship within the realm of art.

[@tobycokes1]

You didn't say anything there? No really that was totally devoid of substance and this retort in turn is by it's very nature of no substance

[@DonatienAlphonse]

​@@cpanczakWRONG

[@DonatienAlphonse]

​​@@matthewrocca4197Wrong ... but thanks for your thoughts on racism, Privileged White Male

[@art_means_artificial]

freedom speach in the west hahahahahhaha what a joke!

[@johancarlberg1530]

Well, lot's of countries have freedom of speech, but the trend now is to get hate and perhaps cancelled if you "say the wrong thing", but it's still freedom of speech. Not having freedom of speech is when it's censored before it even gets a chance to be published. But saying that we don't have freedom of speech because the majority of people will denounce your opinion is incorrect